http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/08/lieberman-iran-blo
gs-conspiracy/

Almost every time Lieberman speaks it seems he is pushing for more war. This is from a guy who deferred from serving in Vietnam. These yellow bellied chickenhawks really get to me. Ready to send someone else off to an unnecessary and immoral war, but unwilling to put their own ass on the line, just does not fly.

1. There is no evidence that Iran is doing anything with its nuclear program that it does not have every legal right to do. It is entirely reasonable for Iran to move toward nuclear power, and in fact some of the characters who are screaming the loudest now about their nuclear program were, not all that long ago, encouraging them to go in that direction.

2. If Iran does in fact intend one day to develop a nuclear weapon, that is a perfectly reasonable goal given that Iran is surrounded by – and often threatened by – nuclear states.

3. Iran has no history of aggression, and no one has presented any evidence that this is going to change in the foreseeable future.

4. As for the talk of Israel as the “number one state sponsor of international terrorism”, as I have said many times, show us what you’ve got. So far all they manage to come up with that is not completely risible is Israel’s support for Hezbullah, and alleged support for Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which are complex homegrown organizations with local, not global, agendas, and none of which qualifies as an international terrorist threat. Whether Hezbullah even qualifies as a terrorist group is debatable.

In addition, Iran has an active pro-democracy movement that the United States has done nothing but undermine with its machinations.

I think one of the points Shirin is trying to make is whether Iran is a threat to our national security or not. You can’t discuss what to do about a problem until there is a true consensus that a problem even exists.

Maybe I am just naive or uniformed but I have not seen any facts or evidence presented to prove Iran is a threat, so just like Iraq there is no consensus at all.

All I have seen or heard is inflammatory rhetoric and and vague unsubstantiated claims from an administration that lied about the so called
threat to us from Iraq.

Am I not correct on this? They said trust us on the runup to the invasion of Iraq, we know what we are doing. So we did and now look what we have! A f**king mess, and instead of trying to fix it the slimy bastards are diverting our attention away from Iraq, to another even lessor or no threat than Iraq was. What kind of stupid logic is this??

So what? We are just supposed to line up like hungry birds and let them and their right wing news enablers spoon feed us with calming there there
everything is going to be fine, just trust us again?? I don’t think so!

BTW relative to my statement about diverting attention away from Iraq you should all read this story…

The Iraq war has become a disaster that we have chosen to forget

at this link……http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18669.htm

The current leaders of this country are hell bent on turning this country into their empire and they don’t give a shit what anybody thinks. They believe they God is on their side and no amount of logic, Senate resolutions or anything else is going to stop them.

There is only only two ways to stop them as I have said many times on this site and largely been ignored and one of them is not just blindly get behind Hillary Clinton. (Go to the democracy for america website and look where she ranks among so called progressives on their pulse poll)

Impeachment or a Coup by the military and since the military doesn’t seem to have the balls to fight our “domestic enemies”, the only recourse is Impeachment.

BTW the winner in the dfa poll is Dennis Kucinich who also has introduced another impeachment resolution in the House, which of course will probably be tabled indefinitely.

Dennis Kuncinich gets my vote because he is doing something about the problem. He is a true patriot like Valerie and Joe Wilson, who is standing up and speaking the truth. All the other candidates are just self serving wishy washy flipping flopping opportunists.

Never bring a knife to a gunfight, never bring a shadow boxer to a barroom brawl…

A nonbinding resolution to bind Dubya from war with Iran after we agree to mitigate Joke Lieberman’s language against Iran; providing verbal material case precedent in terms of what he says against Persia?

So, how exactly can Dubya not cherry pick this statement, and take authorization, based on the assumption of Iran being a terror supporter for its Revolutionary Guard? He can still ignore a binding limitation of power for a non-binding agreement.

That is classic shadowboxing.

Fool me once, shame on Yoo. No more vague endorsements of Dubya’s anti-Constitutional efforts.

True, Obama is playing both sides of the fence, not showing for votes then speaking against items. He’s prisoner to campaign season, much like John McCain. Both are trying to play both sides of the fence with a pitch sounding like a Joe sixpack…

neither is voting to put money where their mouth is, or their arse on the line on voting record as it were…

I’d rather see a bundle of diplomatic efforts channeled to a regional framework. Iran agrees to the usual IAEA items and we accelerate normalization.

Then we’re having business with Iran. Business develops contacts, this lends credence to transparency. That reinforces our assurances that they’ll meet concerns of security.

All sanctions do is shut us out, and probably channel additional business Dubai way, etc. Who does Cheney think he’s fooling? He never passes up on a dollar to be made(even at today’s low exchange rate). Why let him shut out all the business to other American companies, ones with better records regarding disclosure and transparency?

We can really wage unilateral sanctions vs. Iran. Soon as we’re done winning the unilateral war we’ve waged in Iraq, we’ll report how good one sided actions work…

in the meantime keep shadowboxing.

Southern Lebanon is still the big item, the trans Arabian and Trans Iraqi pipelines flow there, much of the region’s headwaters exist there in rivers and lakes. Israel wants that, finding ways to remove the influence of more powerful benefactors is our current duty on their behalf, which can let them gain leverage in the southern portion.

Oh, btw bombing campaigns in Lebanon don’t work either. They only make people more mad. Israel took a UN observer post out that manned by China in the bombing campaign, with some ordinance too accurate to be considered accidental. That was the day after Condi met with China and then made an official statement, after the boss who banks our currency said what we could do…

Iran and China are new buddies on the world after bellicose Bush language forced Western isolation into play. Now they’re ready to act across the regions, the doorway to the Mediterranean and all of the Mideast’s energy taps that go there have emotional and active support from countries we side against on Israel’s behalf.

What Bush says about it doesn’t amount to a hill of beans any more. Congress is running on borrowed money too. Stop shadowboxing and learn from the real pros. Move aside and the let the big dogs eat. China and Russia are hungry.

Our empire is myth, as is the narrative of American exceptionalism. Rocky doesn’t win this sequel with our flag in his corner. Hollywood has no boxer able to do that, not even Ahnold(though he would play a great villain vs. Sly Stallone and it would be a better role for him than his current casting couch in California’s Executive mansion). Maybe we’ll be lucky enough to have someone fight for us who can cook up some good food, like George Foreman can, and make it more healthy to eat American style. Not for the win, but for the flavor…

Or maybe we’ll stay bloated and hungry for more oil and a petrodollar pushed past its peak. Junkies for the myth… the high will never be the same. The aging champ, like Ali… no longer sharp or quick of wit armed with graced mechanics. Relegated to ghost fighting with character grimace faces and phantom uppercuts before needing help back to his chair.

America has become a glorified shadowboxer.(/Cosell)

As to the allegation that Iranian forces are killing American troops in Iraq, if American troops were not where they have no business being (Iraq) doing things they have no business doing (killing Iraqis and destroying their country), NO ONE would be killing American troops in Iraq, now, would they? So, the best solution is to remove American troops from Iraq.

The whole Iran business is a manufactured crisis.

War has been its [the administration's] first, second and final option — its preferred option — with disastrous results.

Or put another way, because only tool they know how to use is a hammer, everything they see looks like a nail.

What to do with Bush and Cheney? Statements of position by Congress are fine. But the diplomacy of these statements can only work if the executive plays with the same or similar rule book. I know I’m not alone in sensing that this administration is playing by a rule book they write by and for themselves, and much of the time claim as a state secret. So while diplomacy in foreign relations is good, I think the diplomacy used towards this Whitehouse bunch needs to be backed up with actions that have teeth.

Obama seems to capture the dreams of many, but I think he needs to mature as a politician. Talk and charisma are cheap. Let’s see in a few years how his track record shows if he’s learned to walk the talk.

Personally, I’ve had enough of Shrub’s lack of experience. It’s time for someone with lessons well learned from real grown-up experience.

==========

Fixed it Richard.
Leslie

The KL Resolution is not useful at this time either diplomatically or domestically. It is quite frankly pandering to both the neocons and the Israel Lobby to promote it.

It is also not certain that Iran’s IRGC can even be correctly accused of supporting “terrorism” per se. Iran’s primary support is for Hizballah which is primarily a Lebanese nationalist resistance movement, not precisely a “terrorist” movement in the same sense as “Al Qaeda.” While any given tactic used by these groups might be considered “terrorist”, that is insufficient to designate them a “terrorist” group on a par with an organization like Al Qaeda.

Furthermore, the real issue is that it is known by now by just about everybody that you don’t give George Bush – and especially Dick Cheney – an inch or they’ll take a mile. The KL Resolution, regardless of its actual wording, can and will be used to promote the meme in the public discourse that the US Congress authorized any subsequent military action against Iran.

It was, to quote Valerie’s reference to the Iraq war, “ill-considered” to pass this resolution.

Criticism of Clinton’s action is thus warranted.

Unfortuneately, I agree with the other posters here who say that it doesn’t seem to matter what we do any more. The lines seem to be drawn in the sand, and none of our elected leaders are principled enouth or perhaps patriotic enought to stand up and do the right thing. We have been lied to and our constitutional rights have been denigrated to the point that I wonder it we can ever recover what has been lost. I pray IA am very wrong.

War with Iran is all but started. We have now dropped two nuclear devices on Syria, and more treasonous acts are being commited each day without the Congress, or the people demanding a stop to the maddness. Letters and calls no doubt tell our leaders our anger. If only they cared. And really wanted to uphold the rule of law and the constitution. Best to Val… the book is GREAT!!!

So that “nonbinding” resolution was a supreme mistake…and a letter by 20 Senators is a joke. Bush and Cheney are probably still laughing. They need to pass a real resolution prohibiting an attack on Iran on pain of impeach,ment, unless there is a declaration of war by the senate. Otherwise the Democrats will(once again) be compliocit in a clear violation of international law…and commit a war crime with unprecedented terrible consequences.

Though I admire what you and your wife have done, I believe that you..and Hillary and Durbin and all the others who are enabling Bush by behaving in such a spineless manner are facillitating an attack on Iran by this extreme and delusional administration.