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The So-Called “Fake” Atrocity Video

Folks at Little Green Footballs are insisting they’ve discovered a fraud perpetrated by CNN yesterday. CNN aired the following video yesterday.

Israeli apologists have gone on the attack decrying this as a fraud. Little Green Footballs, for example, appears to be leading the charge, citing someone who claims to be a Doctor to discredit the video:

I’m no military expert, but I am a doctor, and this video is bullsh-t. The chest compressions that were being performed at the beginning of this video were absolutely, positively fake. The large man in the white coat was NOT performing CPR on that child. He was just sort of tapping on the child’s sternum a little bit with his fingers. You can’t make blood flow like that. Furthermore, there’s no point in doing chest compressions if you’re not also ventilating the patient somehow. In this video, I can’t tell for sure if the patient has an endotracheal tube in place, but you can see that there is nobody bag-ventilating him (a bag is actually hanging by the head of the bed), and there is no ventilator attached to the patient. In a hospital, during a code on a ventilated patient, somebody would probably be bagging the patient during the chest compressions. And they also would have moved the bed away from the wall, so that somebody could get back there to intubate the patient and/or bag him. In short, the “resuscitation scene” at the beginning is fake, and it’s a pretty lame fake at that.

Well “Doctor,” you may not be right. I also know something firsthand about resuscitating people. I worked my way thru college as a Respiratory Therapy technician. Every time someone arrested at the Independence San or the Boone Country Regional Medical Center (and if I was working that shift) I was part of the CPR team. I have been involved with over 50 cpr cases.

Here’s what I see in the video–1) it does appear the boy is intubated. You catch a brief glimpse of the tape around the mouth and there is a ventilator to the right of the bed. The images are very quick and it appears the brother started filming this as the CPR effort was winding down. 2) the chest compressions are appropriate for a child.

The only problem with the video is that we do not get a full look at everything for an extended period in order to be able to make a judgment. But this much is certain–over 220 Palestinian children have been killed by the Israelis. There is no excuse for that in my view.

  • BjornO

    Follow up:
    For all you guys that doubt the CPR. You were right, but in the extended version with comments from independent doctors you will understand that that doesn’t make the video a fake…

    http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/01/22/bs.holmes.gaza.boy.death.cnn

    Cheers, Björn Ottar

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YPb-hNCwck IDExpo

    One last thing. A dead person turns greay and blue. Even in the footage of the child which has been taken home, the child is a normal skin tone including his ears.

    I double checked and yes the so called doctor giving CPR is indeed doing compressions on the childs belly even with the childs wrist.

    It is so fake. I worked EMT and have done CPR many times, even one girl who was black and later rusucitated. She turned grey in skin tone, too.

    CNN should offer a recant and everyone claiming it is real should shut up.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YPb-hNCwck IDExpo

    “Did the kid die? Most likely. Was Israel the cause, maybe. The fact the video is obviously fake does make one believe that perhaps Hamas was more reponsible for the death.”

    I agree with this position if the child did die. But more likely is that the child is not dead. It appears the reason the chest compressions are not being done correctly (abdomen) is that they do not want to injure the boy. If they boy was dead, they would show his face as they always do.

    The camera person is avoiding and editing out the childs face because likely the child is a bad actor.

    Pallywood at its finast. They do have deaths there however. The question is about the video not whether their exists a war where deaths are occuring.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YPb-hNCwck IDExpo

    Absoultley no question whatsover. It is faked.

    The chest compressions are done at such a extreme rate of speed indicates the man doing it is not a doctor and the fact that the “doctor” next to him does not say “slow down” is also true. It is mugging for the camera, that the so called doctor is interseted in.

    Secondly, if the doctor declares to stop ventilation the chest compressions would automatically stop. They do not stop at differen times otherwise the doctor cannot declare the time of death.

    The story above is just a cover. Are their children dying in a war. Yes – that happens in war. Don’t start wars.

  • mountainaires

    http://www.memeorandum.com/

    THE VIDEO IS GENUINE.

  • Zaggs

    The video, and CNN’s and Larry’s defense of the video is pathetic. You want to know where it really gets fake? Forget the chest compressions (which in this case seem to be stomach compressions) and what not. Look at the description by CNN and see if the video stands up. It doesn’t. The kid, via CNN’s reporting, “Mahmoud Khalil Mashharawi, a 12-year-old, was brought to the hospital, and he was breathing, but he was hit in the head and all over his body by shrapnel. He died later in the hospital. He was treated by the Norwegian team. When he was brought in, he was breathing. The team did their best to save him. I am not really sure if they even tried to rush him to the surgery room, because he was badly hurt.”. So there is shrapnel all over the kids body. Ok, so where is the blood and deep cuts? There is only one spot of blood and one cut. The blood is from someone else. You know this because the spot is on the actual bed, but there is not corresponding spot on the blanket the kid is wrapped in (47 secs in). And the spot is only so big. The leg wound isn’t bleeding at all.
    Ok so the kid bled out on another bed and they just liked the lighting of this particular bed. So lets move onto the house. The “rocket” that was fired from a UAV and landing 90 degrees the the roof penetrated the roof in a neat hole, yet exploded in the air. I say in the air because there is no crater for said shrapnel to come from. Also the laundry and plastic chairs seem fine.
    Last question, only the 2 boys were on the roof….so how the hell does the family know that a drone fired the “rocket”? Also what Israeli UAV’s are armed (the only one I’m aware of is Harpy which is an anti radar weapon)? Also if it was fired from an aircraft, it came down at 90 degrees to the roof? Not at an angle like every other weapon fired in such a way? There appears to be no angle to the hole what so ever. Is Israel now using UAV as divebombers with perfect aim?
    Sorry it doesn’t add up.
    Did the kid die? Most likely. Was Israel the cause, maybe. The fact the video is obviously fake does make one believe that perhaps Hamas was more reponsible for the death.

    • elise

      “Did the kid die? Most likely. Was Israel the cause, maybe. The fact the video is obviously fake does make one believe that perhaps Hamas was more reponsible for the death.”

      You are a sick person.

      • andrew191

        Elise, three days ago Larry posted a video that he initially claimed was the recent schoolyard attack by the Israelis. It wasn’t, and Larry, in a rather risible attempt at saving face, latter explained that it was an incident where a Hamas truckload of qassam rockets accidentally exploded, ( While Larry was modifying the origional posting he should have re-titled it “To be hoised by one’s own petard”).

        Elise, you are the sick person for buying into this nonsense, and because you do, there is sure to be more of it.

        • mountainaires

          Andrew, what planet to you reside on?

          The Israelis admitted that there was no Hamas fire from the school; Israel admitted that the school was clearly marked as a safe haven for civilians, with a UN flag flying at the school, and that the UN informed Israel of the location so Israel wouldn’t bomb it.

          But Israel did bomb it–deliberately killing the civilians inside.

          It’s not the only occurrence of deliberate killing of civilians:

          Israeli ground troops ordered around 110 Palestinian civilians into a single home in Gaza City’s Zeitun neighborhood and ordered them to stay indoors on Sunday. On Monday morning, Israeli forces repeatedly shelled the building, killing at least 30 of the civilians inside. It then refused to allow ambulances to retrieve the dead and dying people for days.

      • Zaggs

        Sorry Elise but it comes down to simple history and MO’s. The palestinians are known to fake many a media video. Just do google searches for “Al-Dura Hoax” and “Pallywood”. Strangely Al-Dura involved faking a kids death, or at least faking that the IDF killed him when in fact he either didn’t die or was killed by palestinian gunmen. So surely you reaised hell about….ah who am I kidding. When the truth came out you didn’t say a damn thing did you? Course not. Can’t face the facts this is how low the palestinians or anyone else can go (Iraq pulled the same stunt but on a much, much larger scale and it was a hoax as well)?
        I know this because you don’t dispute anything I say. You’re not saying that surely air launched missiles don’t come in at an angle to a target and always impact at 90 degrees. Your not saying that the body does match what CNN reports. Your not saying if only 2 people of course its easy to tell what fired it.
        Its not unknown for Hamas to fire rockets from Gaza aimed at Israel that misfire and hit Gaza. Its entirely possible what killed this killed was such a rocket fire or Hamas being too stupid with a mortar.

  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

    Yes it’s common. This whole mess is so full of propaganda. As another poster pointed out there was a lawsuit in France over this same issue. Palestinian propaganda and a phony video about a kid being killed. There’s a ton of it here too, which is so sad for Israel. I strongly urge people not to believe what they are being told to do…to hate Israel, and to really do your homework. It’s all BS.

  • elise

    This is probably the most ridiculous argument I’ve ever read on a blog. Someone who “claimed” to be a doctor is “claiming” this video was staged to make it look as though a child died in Palestine and was laid in the ground. It is such a rare occurrence, all of these people have to get together to film this fairytale for propaganda? There are people right here in the good old USA who claim the Holocaust was staged for propaganda and the pics of piles of bodies and starving people were nothing more than props. My God, how hateful and inhumane humans are. Animals have more compassion. Which nation has ever conducted a war without claiming it’s cause was righteous and it’s enemies, the devil incarnate? This so-called doctor makes a proclamation on his conclusion made through his lenses to deny the death of a child and turns the conversation from the immorality of war to the discussion about whether or not this particular child’s death was staged. This isn’t just stupid. It is obscene.

    • andrew191

      Elise, staging fake deaths to gain global sympathy is a common practice. Who is more obscene, the person exposing a probable fraud, or the person(s) crafting the fraud?

      This video appears to be pieced together, some parts may be real (the funeral perhaps), and other parts are staged. The scene in the hospital is a joke, no “doctor” would perform CPR like that, I’ve performed CPR enough (more times than I can remember)to know.

      • elise

        What can I say? Your comment made me sick at heart. You have decided this vid is fake based on your own desire to believe it just as surely as any Holocaust denier. Is there supposed to be an argument that children don’t die in wars so people “stage” their deaths? You’ve performed CPR just as almost everyone here has, who is presenting an illogical argument about an irrational war. Give me a break. Little hearts stop beating, blood flows, pain for the lose of a child, endless arguments, endless war, endless rationalization and cruelty breeding more war and more death. Why are you doing this? I am sick to death of people like you.

        • andrew191

          Elise, why am I doing this? Because I think the truth is important. Because I think that staging the fake death of a child to gain the sympathy of people like you is evil. Because staging fake deaths is evil because it is a mockery to the REAL horrors of REAL death. Because when people like you believe such shams, and accuse people like me of being holocaust deniers and claim that I make you sick, the real SICK people will continue to make such frauds. Because a lie, is a lie, is a lie, is a lie.

          You SHOULD be enraged by the senseless death of the innocent, as am I, and you should be even more enraged when evil men mock that death with fraud and flummery. If this makes you “sick”, go to a Doctor, but not the one in the ridiculous CPR video , he’s no Doctor.

          • elise

            andrew, there is nothing more important than the truth. I don’t know if the vid is a fake or real. I watched it and watched it again, enlarged it and watched it again. Should someone investigate, question the doctor, exhume the body, examine the video, have a trial, call witnesses, talk about rigor mortise, blood and then what? If a child did indeed die, blame someone anyone, the parents for allowing him to go on the roof, indiscriminate mortar, thirteen hundred years of history? You will believe what you choose to believe because it validates your position and justifies what has happened and in the end? Israel will pull it’s troops out of Gaza because they can’t afford another occupation, Hamas will go back to hurling rockets into Israel and Israel will go back to killing Palestinians and those who have taken one side or the other will justify the next war and they will never demand their “team” stop the war and it will go on until they have destroyed one another. No one will win anything. Can’t you understand that one simple idea? There has never been a winner, there are only losers and that child is dead, dead, dead. Yes. That is what I believe after watching the video and I have no side except TRUTH.

            • andrew191

              Elise, my understanding of the reason for this posting was to generate debate about the validity and veracity of the images and information emerging from a never healing wound on this planet. You are the one that derailed that debate by trying to insert the broader debate about the horrors of war. It is shamefully patrinizing of you impugn my position and understanding of the horrors of war simply because I feel strongly that fraudulently representing those horrors is in itself a horror. Why can’t YOU understand that one simple idea? Sheesh

  • mountainaires

    http://www.jstreet.org/

    Pro-Israeli voices to support a ceasefire in Gaza. Sign the petition.

    • athy

      mountainaires-
      Thanks for this link

  • CindyJo

    When I was watching CNN and this aired towards the end of the video they showed them carrying around this DEAD CHILD . I realized it was fake because the DEADCHILD wasn”t stiff, I could tell it was just an act.Its a shame CNN feels the need to show fake DEADCHILD stories.

    • Karma

      Rigormortis isn’t a permanent state for a dead body.

      It is only one stage of death.

      • andrew191

        Rigor starts about three hours after death and lasts until decomposition begins (between 36 and 72 hours). It seems reasonable that in this case, rigor would have likely started before they managed to bury him. But we have little indication of the actual timeline.

  • mountainaires

    CNN: Red Cross demands Gaza access, cites ‘shocking’ discoveries
    http://tinyurl.com/a59nan

    Telegraph: Gaza medics describe horror of strike which killed 70
    http://tinyurl.com/7fdzde

    NYT: Gaza Children Found With Mothers’ Corpses
    http://tinyurl.com/85nvpk

    Times: Gaza victims’ burns increase concern over phosphorus
    http://tinyurl.com/8wscez

    Washington Post: An Unnecessary War – By Jimmy Carter
    http://tinyurl.com/7cf3lm

    NYT: The Dominion of the Dead
    http://tinyurl.com/9ttd6q

    NYT: What You Don’t Know About Gaza
    http://tinyurl.com/7gl33u

    The Nation: Israel in Gaza: Irrationality
    http://tinyurl.com/7zz4vz

    “It is a great mystery that though the human heart longs for Truth, in which alone it finds liberation and delight, the first reaction of human beings to Truth is one of hostility and fear.” Anthony de Mello

  • actor212

    Actually, current CPR guidelines say no ventilation, only chest compressions, but a real doctor would know that.

    http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/071014/chest-compressions-key-to-revised-cpr-guidelines.htm

  • Butch Zero

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/08/barack-obama-gaza-hamas

    From the Guardian UK:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun

    The Israeli military may have committed war crimes in Gaza, the UN’s most senior human rights official said tonight, as Israeli troops pressed on with their increasingly deadly offensive in defiance of a UN security council resolution demanding a ceasefire

    .

    • Zaggs

      Its a warcrime to use a school as a mortar emplacement. Yet even though Israel had VIDEO evidence Hamas used the Beit Hanoun school as such, what did the UN do? Absolutely nothing. They sure as hell didn’t fill war crimes charges against Hamas. Nor did they try to find the courage to tell Hamas to stop doing it. Its not surprising, they do the same thing in lebanon, hell the UN does it everywhere (rape in the Congo, money laundering in Korea, skimming off the top in Iraq) they really are the Useless Nations.
      I also love in the story you quote the UN has only gotten Hamas’s side (you know this by the fact no Israeli quotes come from the UN report). Odds are Hamas got everyone in there and launched a mortar or 2 from/next to the house.

      • truthtelling007

        “Its a warcrime to use a school as a mortar emplacement. Yet even though Israel had VIDEO evidence Hamas used the Beit Hanoun school as such, what did the UN do? Absolutely nothing. ”

        I’m with you on this. War Crimes trials for Hamas leaders are perfectly appropriate at this point. Not just Hamas, but Hezbollah, and others.

        • truthtelling007

          And if they are still active, you can add Kach and Kahane Chai to the list. Either side that engages in war crimes should face trial.

          Enough of the accusations of one-sided feelings on this. There are crimes and extremists on both sides that need to be dealt with by the valium cop called the US er UN

          • Butch Zero

            I agree, as long as the truth comes out about the motives of the Isaeli neocons toward Palestine.

            Apparently, Obama will be opening a dialouge
            with Palestine, through Hamas, signaling a shift in US policy, and a very good one, at that.

            But it’s always best to proceed on the truth, not as we wish things were, but as they are –without truth, wars are lost, no matter how self righteous we are.

            Right?

            Hamas is a terrorist group, no eyes are closed — and Israel has done some horrific things in the name of
            ” counter terrorism,” acts of which any civilized nation would feel shame.

            Clinton, Obama’s new NSC: 1

            • truthtelling007

              agreed.

  • Butch Zero

    My gosh, I haven’t read Portney’s Complaint since the 70′s!

    I’ll have to give it another look, though I found it dull the first time around, as a child.

  • andrew191

    Larry,

    I’m an EMT/volunteer firefighter, and in my opinion, the so-called CPR in the video looks fake. The compressions are far too rapid and too shallow to be effective. With a juvenile, proper compressions should be deep enough that ribs could be broken (an acceptable consequence when a life is on the line).

    In your obvious efforts to portray Israelis as the bad guys in this situation, you are rapidly losing credibility by posting Hamas propaganda, and irrelavent and outdated videos, as you did the other day. The reality of the situation is bad enough without your attempts at hyping it up. Conflicts are by their nature confusing and obscure, don’t make it worse by cranking up your smoke machine.

    • Pennsylvania Red

      Hey look on the bright side, andrew191.

      This series of NQ articles has pulled back the curtain on all the posters who are “savvy” to the Great Evil Joo Conspiracy.

      Now we know where to get our Evil Joo Spray Repellent when all the big bad neo-cons come to get us.

      BOO!

      • andrew191

        Jeeze you startled me!

      • Karma

        Wow….I thought you were the moderate Republican who didn’t subscribe to the name calling and divisive tactics of other Republicans over the years.

        What was that….a week ago…three days? Something like that. ;)

        Good to know that Obot racism card can be widely used for falsely labeling others.

        Can you say hypocrite?

  • http://www.bestnewspolitics.com Jamie Holts

    Hello.

    I like your site and wanted to know if you would be interested in exchanging blogroll links.

    Thanks in advance

  • http://www.bestnewspolitics.com Jamie Holts

    I found your site on technorati and read a few of your other posts. Keep up the good work. I just added your RSS feed to my Google News Reader. Looking forward to reading more from you down the road!

  • http://www.bestnewspolitics.com Jamie Holts

    Where did you get your blog layout from? I’d like to get one like it for my blog.

  • http://www.bestnewspolitics.com Jamie Holts

    I discovered your homepage by coincidence.
    Very interesting posts and well written.
    I will put your site on my blogroll.
    :-)

  • http://www.bestnewspolitics.com Jamie Holts

    I just stopped by your blog and thought I would say hello. I like your site design. Looking forward to reading more down the road.

  • justus949

    Bravo, Larry. Facts are facts and you nailed it! Thank you.

  • Winston

    Looks like CNN had another bad air day. Only your Johnson knows for sure.

  • justsomeone

    The Doctor in the video, (left side of screen) I’ve seen him in other videos, it’s been reported he’s a Norwegian Maoist. He’s publicly criticized Doctors Without Borders for being apolitical in who they treat.

  • http://www.bestnewspolitics.com Jamie Holts

    I found your site on Google and read a few of your other entires. Nice Stuff. I’m looking forward to reading more from you.

    • NCgirl

      Jeez, you are annoying…must be a bot.

      • Arabella Trefoil

        No, he’s just lonely.

        • imustprotest

          It’s a spambot. Not really a person commenting. Not unlike most trolls anyway!

  • Patrick Henry

    I think that HAMAS does Not CARE if the Palestenian Women and Children wind up Being MARTYRS…since this is a “JIHAD”..

    I also think that When the IDF Responds with thier Massive Military Capabilitys..they are Out for “BLOOD VENGANCE”…with deep Matred for the Palestenians in Gaza…since the IDF considers them All hamas..or hamas supporters…(or Hezbollah in Lebanon)

    The IDF does not mind using Palestenian Women and children for “Target Pratice”…since they consider this any Eye for an Eye War….

    The Message to hamas (or hezbollah) appears to be…You Kill One Jew…or One Jewish Child…we will kill TEN Palestenian in Return..

    Its a war of revenge..and The IDF seems to fight the same way the terrorists do…and with the same Hatred…

    • Zeke

      Tell me,
      Has anyone ever defeated an enemy in battle by thinking, “Gee, they seem like such nice guys… maybe I won’t try to kill them before they kill me.”
      We must not keep thinking that Radical Islam sees the world the same way we do. Applying twenty-first century logic to a group of people whose only change in the last ten centuries has been the technology they use to kill with is like speaking Swahili to an Icelander and then getting pissed at him for not getting it.
      Gainsayers of Israel seem to share one common trait.
      They are incapable of understanding that there has been a common language agreed upon by these two sides and that language is one we’ve spoken since we quit dragging our knuckles and chose up sides.
      Israel is blamed because of bigotry, racism, and a deep seated hatred which can be traced back to the Crucifixion.
      If you don’t think that is true then you have missed two thousand years of history.
      Ask yourself this question. No, really ask yourself.
      When you hear in the news that something has gone on in the Middle East and that Israel is involved, which way do your thoughts fly?
      Is it, “Oh great, what have those damned Israelis gone and done now?”
      Or might it be, “Who has hit Israel this time?”
      If you also take into account that embracing acts of evil, no matter their intent, (and remember your stance on the U.S. torture question) is to become evil, then you really have to take another look at this.
      So, many of you seem to be saying is that Israel does have a right to defend herself but you don’t like the way they do it.
      Me neither. Even as a green beret trainee I learned to appreciate more subtle forms of persuasion, but I also found great solace in knowing that B-52′s with bazillions of 500 pound bombs were only a radio call away.
      War sucks. It should always be fought so it ends the fastest way possible. Some folks do it by killing all the bad guys one by one, others do by group therapy and drop bombs.
      War is making the other guy stop fighting and has always been the final arbiter in bogged down negotiations.
      Civilians always die in wars. If you are so stupid as to start one without considering the implications of your act, then you are the sole individual responsible for the current situation. And no, firing rockets arbitrarily into settlements is wrong. Wrong by its intent. Rockets fired at targets who are enemies and fighting you are legitimate targets and, thus, schools, hospitals and Mosques are justified targets if someone is shooting from them.
      Alot of this argument seems based on motive. If that is true, then Israel has the trump. They want it all to stop and Hamas wants it all to keep going forever or until the fools of the world finally take sides against Israel completely and eradicate them.
      If it ever comes to that, you’ll be able to find me in a foxhole next to my new “best friend in the whole wide world,” Moshe as he and I get ready for a target rich environment.
      If you are against Israel then, it would be wise to be out of my range at that time.

  • http://www.bestnewspolitics.com Jamie Holts

    Hi there,

    I looked over your blog and it looks really good. Do you ever do link exchanges on your blog roll? If you do, I’d like to exchange links with you.

    Let me know if you’re interested.

    Thanks..

  • http://www.bestnewspolitics.com Jamie Holts

    Do you do blogroll exchanging? If you want to exchange links let me know.

    Email me back if you’re interested.

  • swollow

    Larry if you want to know how Jews in Israel feel, just ask SarahinItaly and other pumas.

    lol

  • John

    Killing innocent children is terrible, in no way shape or form do I support such activity.

    But here is a thought. Don’t lob missiles into another country. Pretty simple and while your trying to figure out why israel is attacking you maybe you should think about the truce Israel wanted to keep in place. Unfortunately palestinians are uneducated and are led by people who think it is necessary to fire rockets on Israeli children and when retaliation comes there way they hide amongst the children and women. Hamas = COWARDS.

    The story goes both ways. However the MSM only see one side.

    • James

      Actually, the MSM seems to generally support your position.

      And if you want to get, you know, factual, Israel broke the cease fire back in Nov. 4th when they killed 6 Palestinians in a Gaza raid. The rockets followed afterward. Maybe if Israel didn’t force the Palestinians to live like sardines, there wouldn’t be so much resentment.

      • Mary

        Correct, James. ISRAEL broke the ceasefire by killing 6 Palestinians on a Gaza beach. Hamas, until that time, had HONORED their ceasefire agreements.

        Israel used that incursion—and the rockets that followed—-to avoid honoring their own promise to open the borders and lift the blockade.

        Jerusalem papers report that this “military incursion” had been planned for 6 months to a year.

        Obviously, Israel never intended to honor their promises.

        Netanyahu has openly, publicly said the incursion should continue , until Hamas is completely destroyed—-regardless of the cost to civilians.

        I think we all know exactly what this has been about, sans the propaganda.

        I’m reading in the British press that the very same Israeli settlers that Sharon removed from Gaza are camped out on the Israeli side of the border, in order to rush back in and re-settle the moment the IDF crushes Hamas.

        Honorable intentions? I don’t think so.

        • Zaggs

          Ahn yes, Carters famous “defensive” tunnel! Sorry chap but no tunnel going FROM Gaza INTO Israel serves a “defensive” purpose. It was an incursion that would break any ceasefire.
          And what of the 19 high trajectory weapons fired INTO israel FROM Gaza in August of 08 aka 2 months AFTER the cease fire? As for civilian casualties, at the higest they run 25% of the total dead. Meaning Israel is hitting their targets 75% of the time. This against a group that does its best to hide amongst the populace. That shows Israel is taking care NOT to hit civilians.
          As for the video, Larry I gope anytime you performed CPR on someone you actually LOOKED at the person. The brute in the video is mostly looking away from the child.

          • Ce

            Stop acting like a victim or a defender of criminals.

            See what Israel did in prior to Aug. to PROVOKE the mmissile fire

            Settlers assault shepherds near Susiya settlement while soldiers stand and watch, 24 June 2008

            Solider assaults Nasser a-Nawaj’ah and takes a video cassette on which he had documented settler violence, June 2008

            Police severely beat Tareq Abu Laban in Tel-Aviv, June 2008

            Settlers attack the a-Nawaj’ah family near the Susiya settlement, 8 June 2008

            Soldiers watch while settlers tie a Palestinian to a pole and beat him, 5 July ’08

            July 24
            2008 Israel severely infringes Gazans’ right to education

            Since Israel tightened the siege on Gaza, hundreds of Palestinians have been unable to attend their studies outside it. This denies individuals’ right to education and impedes the development of Palestinian society as a whole.

            http://www.btselem.org/english/Testimonies/index.asp

            Is this taking care not to hit civilians?

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4143303/Israel-strike-kills-up-to-60-members-of-one-family.html

            Israel strike kills up to 60 members of one family
            Some of the Samouni family died from shrapnel wounds and others from being crushed by falling masonry.

            By Tim Butcher in Jerusalem
            Last Updated: 8:30PM GMT 06 Jan 2009

            But the one death that sticks in Nael al Samouni’s mind is that of the relative he claims was shot by an Israeli sniper.

            “We ran from the shelling and there were people everywhere, members of my family, but one fell down injured,” Nael, 36, said.

            “I heard the shot as I ran but there was nothing I could do.”

            With Israel barring foreign journalists from reaching Gaza, it is impossible to verify the account of what happened to the Samouni family emerging from eyewitness testimony provided by survivors.

            But different survivors all gave near identical accounts of how the Israeli army arrived at dawn on Sunday in the area of Zeitoun where the Samouni family have lived for generations.

            “There are many houses where we live and they ordered us into the house of my brother, Wael,” Nael said.

            Wael, 39, another survivor, said as many as 100 members of the clan crowded into his single-storey home with strict orders from the Israeli soldiers not to move.

            They thought they had survived the night when at 6.35am on Monday the house was suddenly hit by a shell that brought the roof down. It was then hit again and again.

            “I saw my father and mother, and three of my children killed,” Wael said. “There was blood and bodies everywhere but some people were lost under the rubble.

            Another survivor, Hilmi al Samouni, 26, said that when the Israeli soldiers ordered the 100 or so family members into one place they confiscated their mobile phones.

            • beebop

              So long as Hamas is using hospitals, schools and mosques to stage their attacks on Israelis, the Palestinian people cannot expect peace. When they stop Hamas from using them as human shields for terrorist attacks, they can all sit at the table. Get it?

              • ces

                Have you looked at map of Gaza?

                Please show me an area that isn’t close to a school or hospital?

                Seriously, I’m no fan of terrorism or genocide, but damn let’s stop using the acts and propaganda of the “few” as justification of the harm against the rest.

                If the Israeli intelligence/military can determine that rockets are being fired from buildings used as hospitals or schools, they can damn well use that same technology to target their ordnance/strikes against the threat and not the collateral. I believe this was the sort of point Larry was making the other day.

                I would bet that if someone other than Hamas would feed, clothe and take care of medicinal needs of the populace, you’d have more luck at getting the more moderate folks at the table.

                • beebop

                  It is so much more “kosher” to express our moral outrage at the nation most like us, isn’t it?

                  • ces

                    Most like us? WTF, beebop.

                    They eat. We eat.
                    They breathe. We breathe.
                    They love. They love.
                    They hate. We hate (believe it or not).

                    The group-think that was the W admin, The Cheetoh, the Obama Brand (not to mention other more genocidal movements in our living history) is not healthy.

                    If I say, hey Israel, use the technology you have (sold to you the us, the U.S.) to LIMIT the colateral…how is that “kosher” or not?

                    If I want somebody, even someone who has wronged me, I don’t kill their brother, I freakin’ try to “turn the other cheek” and treat them like a freakin’ human being.

                    Unless, you’re implying this is a religious war (on your own personal level). If that’s the case, that’s well outside the scope of the comment section of a blog.

                    And if the topic of this thread were the sources of the rockets HAMAS is firing or how the individuals of the Gaza Strip feel, then I’d be the first to crucify, yes crucify, the ignorant religiously-drunk, sick human beings who think ANY violence can be solved with MORE violence.

                • andrew191

                  “if someone other than Hamas would feed, clothe and take care of medicinal needs of the populace” ?????? Wow! I can’t help but wonder if Hamas had taken the millions they’ve spent on rockets, mortars, and missels, and actually used that money for food, clothing, and medicine, if ANY of this would be happening right now.

                  • andrew191

                    Of course Iran would cut off the $$$ for Hamas REAL FAST if they spent the money for anything other than killing Israelis.

                    • ces

                      Unfortunately there are a lot of naive pawns/surrogates in this ongoing blood bath.

                    • andrew191

                      Yes! And it would be the first major step in ending this perpetual nightmare when the world realizes that the Palistinians have been the victims of their own Arab brothers who use them as pawns in their vicarious war with Israel.

                  • ces

                    Well, it was my understanding that HAMAS at some point did spread money around, or try to, so that people had basic supplies. Thus, winning favor of at least a simple majority of the people there.

                    And my point is, that if there were international intervention to provide those supplies, that people there might see that it is possible to see that firing those miss[les] is not the only answer.

                    If I were living in an area that small with so many people and NO realistic chance of getting food, medicine or being able to import raw goods to start a business…than yes, I think I’d be hopping mad, too. Enough to kill…who knows. A cornered dog is about as dangerous as you get. Most animals will go berserk if you get between them and their offspring.

                    Hopelessness brings desperation which only leads to the short road to chaos.

                    But of course, is there a not so subtle current in their society that is anti-Israel. You bet. I just happen to believe that air strikes with imprecise weapons is the way to overcome that hate.

                    • andrew191

                      I guess is wasn’t too bright of the Palistinians to destroy the many greenhouses the Israelis left behind when they vacated Gaza. Perhaps the greenhouses were secret Israeli munitions factories. Brilliant!

                      “Most animals will go berserk if you get between them and their offspring.” Good point! What type of animals strap explosives to their offspring and send them off to destroy the innocent offspring of others?

                    • ces

                      The same that think it’s OK to strap themselves to a gas tank with wings and explosives and kill someone else.

                      And y’know, animals like wolves know when enough is enough and go and kill off their elders that are sick or slowing the pack down. We do the same…it’s a called a ballot box.

        • athy

          Interesting article that provides overview as to how US msm handled the reporting of what broke the ceasefire…

          http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10140.shtml

          US media didn’t report Israeli ceasefire violation

          Jim Lobe and Ali Gharib,

          The Electronic Intifada, 8 January 2009

          WASHINGTON (IPS) – “Consumed by coverage of the 4 November presidential election, US mainstream media ignored a key Israeli military attack on a Hamas target that some Palestinians claim marked the effective end of the ceasefire between the two sides and set the stage for the current round of bloodletting.”

          “While neither side ever completely respected the ceasefire terms, the Israeli raid was far and away the biggest violation,” said Stephen Zunes, an expert on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict at the University of San Francisco.

          “It was a huge, huge provocation, and it now appears to me that it was actually intended to get Hamas to break off the ceasefire,” he added.”

          Read the rest…pretty interesting.

          • Bruce

            Are you serious, do you even bother to check the information people force feed to you?

            Hamas has been launching rockets from the Gaza strip since 2006.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

            It’s mind boggling. I think Israel is totally unjustified in what they are doing and should be held to account, but come on all you had to do was a basic google search.

      • Peggy Sue

        Yes, the 6 Palestinians, armed gunmen as I remember the report, in the tunnels, hoping to resupply their weapon stash. Or maybe kidnap a few Israeli soldiers for good measure.

        The only innocents in this mess are the children. On both sides.

        • James

          They didn’t fire or do anything to break the cease fire agreement. It wasn’t a peace agreement, it was a cease fire. Israel broke its end of the deal.

          • Peggy Sue

            So, how do we explain the 2-3 dozen mortar and rocket shells hitting Israel between June and November? Was that part of the “cease fire?” Or did Israel skoot into Gaza and the fire those mysterious rockets at themselves just to make Hamas look bad?

            Come on. There are no innocents in this mess.

          • John

            James James James,

            If someone is walking around in your country armed and your identified as a known enemy, OPEN GAME JAMES, OPEN GAME.

            If you are where you should not be and you happen to be armed and you haven’t fired yet, why are you there? What business do you have? Do you really think they could possibly being do something constructive? Come on James get your head out of your a$$. If you carry a weapon you have the capability of using it. My father told me when I was young, if you choose to carry a weapon be prepared to use it. There really is no other reason for carrying a weapon.

            • Zeke

              John!
              Woot!

  • Peggy Sue

    My understanding was that CNN pulled this vid without explanation. Do I think deaths of children are acceptable? Of course not. But using propaganda to inflame a hideous situation is not acceptable either.

    A Hot Air summary on the vid says this:

    “A little more investigation determined that one of the doctors in the video is notorious terrorist apologist Mads Gilbert. The older brother, meanwhile, is no mere “free-lance cameraman” but the owner of a business that hosts Internet web sites for Hamas. In other words, this looks an awful attempt at propaganda that only a “professional” media outlet with a pre-existing animus to Israel would put on the air without any checking of sources.”

    The whole situation is God awful. But I think we have to careful about the sources on both sides trying to twist emotions and opinion.

    • James

      I’m tired of the accusation that there’s an anti-Israel bias in the media. What a joke. So is there a pro-Palestinian bias?

      Regardless, sources should always be triple checked before airing.

    • nancy sabet

      The guy who was given the chest compressions at the beginning of this video was indeed looked fake.