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	<title>Comments on: Larry Doyle&#8217;s (LD&#8217;s) Dollars and Sense &#8220;Central Station&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/</link>
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		<title>By: Who Did They Think They Were Kidding? : NO QUARTER</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1119105</link>
		<dc:creator>Who Did They Think They Were Kidding? : NO QUARTER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1119105</guid>
		<description>[...] Larry Doyle’s (LD’s) Dollars and Sense “Central Station” (January 10, 2009) Comment by LD &#124; 2009-01-10 10:45:43 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Larry Doyle’s (LD’s) Dollars and Sense “Central Station” (January 10, 2009) Comment by LD | 2009-01-10 10:45:43 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rolling_thunder</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1113601</link>
		<dc:creator>rolling_thunder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1113601</guid>
		<description>Rates are likely to go higher. Refi now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rates are likely to go higher. Refi now.</p>
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		<title>By: rolling_thunder</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1113597</link>
		<dc:creator>rolling_thunder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1113597</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;OBAMA PLANS CUT BACK ON SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE&lt;/blockquote&gt;

We were out there going to assisted lving homes and warning the people about this. This is no suprise. They voted for Barry anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>OBAMA PLANS CUT BACK ON SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE</p></blockquote>
<p>We were out there going to assisted lving homes and warning the people about this. This is no suprise. They voted for Barry anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: TeakwoodKite</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1113152</link>
		<dc:creator>TeakwoodKite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1113152</guid>
		<description>Thanks LD for your patience in splanin&#039; it so well.

With these consolidations it would seem to make any point of falure more critical and far reaching...

More food for thought, I need more string. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks LD for your patience in splanin&#8217; it so well.</p>
<p>With these consolidations it would seem to make any point of falure more critical and far reaching&#8230;</p>
<p>More food for thought, I need more string. <img src='http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1113078</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1113078</guid>
		<description>Annie....believe me I am with you. I too detest contemptible and corruptible actions of people on both sides of illegal transactions. Just because I worked on Wall Street does not mean that I would willingly accept anything and everything that goes on there. Similarly it is not right to blanketly indict eevrybody in an industry for the crimes of those few committing them. 

There is no immunity for anybody because ultimately we all pay the price for these crimes!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Annie&#8230;.believe me I am with you. I too detest contemptible and corruptible actions of people on both sides of illegal transactions. Just because I worked on Wall Street does not mean that I would willingly accept anything and everything that goes on there. Similarly it is not right to blanketly indict eevrybody in an industry for the crimes of those few committing them. </p>
<p>There is no immunity for anybody because ultimately we all pay the price for these crimes!!</p>
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		<title>By: Annie Oakley</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1112947</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie Oakley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 22:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1112947</guid>
		<description>Ah yes, business as usual. The NYT article I quoted above also has this from a retired IRS overseer of muni bonds: &lt;em&gt;It&#039;s rare to sell a Senate seat, but it&#039;s not rare to sell a bond deal. Pay-to-play in the municipal bond market is epidemic.&lt;/em&gt;

Maybe they need more tapped lines and orange jumpsuits. That working people who barely get by pay for this infuriates me. Maybe that could be part of Obama&#039;s stimulus package: quadruple investigations and prosecutions of white collar crime. And speaking of which, congress has been a solid partner in the worst of it. I saw Sen. Schumer tut-tutting hedge fund managers and remembered that congress had been unable to pass legislation that merely would have required managers like Madoff to pay regular income tax on their hedge fund &quot;earnings.&quot;

Oy, I am so steamed, LD. Please don&#039;t take it personally, I appreciate what you&#039;re doing here and read most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yes, business as usual. The NYT article I quoted above also has this from a retired IRS overseer of muni bonds: <em>It&#8217;s rare to sell a Senate seat, but it&#8217;s not rare to sell a bond deal. Pay-to-play in the municipal bond market is epidemic.</em></p>
<p>Maybe they need more tapped lines and orange jumpsuits. That working people who barely get by pay for this infuriates me. Maybe that could be part of Obama&#8217;s stimulus package: quadruple investigations and prosecutions of white collar crime. And speaking of which, congress has been a solid partner in the worst of it. I saw Sen. Schumer tut-tutting hedge fund managers and remembered that congress had been unable to pass legislation that merely would have required managers like Madoff to pay regular income tax on their hedge fund &#8220;earnings.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oy, I am so steamed, LD. Please don&#8217;t take it personally, I appreciate what you&#8217;re doing here and read most.</p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1112899</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1112899</guid>
		<description>Getfitnow....always good to hear from you.

The bailout funds that have been directed to the banks so far were in the form of &quot;preferred stock&quot; which paid the government a 5% dividend. Thus the cost to the banks is 5%. 

The 0% that you are likely referring is the Fed Funds rate which is the rate at which banks can borrow from the Federal Reserve for overnight money. The Fed has indicated that that FF rate will stay between 0-.25% for an extended period. 

Where do the banks put that cash to work? Across all lines of business, including but not exclusively:
 
1.mortgages at rates between 4.75% to 7% for &quot;prime&quot; credits depending on the amount of the loan.

2. other consumer credits from home equity lines to credit cards can range from 5% to north of 20% again depending on the balance and the quality of the credit of the borrower.

3. corporate credits likely range from 7-20% again depending on the credit quality of the borrower.

I have not heard of rates approaching 36-38% for anything. Nor would I envision any person or entity paying that rate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getfitnow&#8230;.always good to hear from you.</p>
<p>The bailout funds that have been directed to the banks so far were in the form of &#8220;preferred stock&#8221; which paid the government a 5% dividend. Thus the cost to the banks is 5%. </p>
<p>The 0% that you are likely referring is the Fed Funds rate which is the rate at which banks can borrow from the Federal Reserve for overnight money. The Fed has indicated that that FF rate will stay between 0-.25% for an extended period. </p>
<p>Where do the banks put that cash to work? Across all lines of business, including but not exclusively:</p>
<p>1.mortgages at rates between 4.75% to 7% for &#8220;prime&#8221; credits depending on the amount of the loan.</p>
<p>2. other consumer credits from home equity lines to credit cards can range from 5% to north of 20% again depending on the balance and the quality of the credit of the borrower.</p>
<p>3. corporate credits likely range from 7-20% again depending on the credit quality of the borrower.</p>
<p>I have not heard of rates approaching 36-38% for anything. Nor would I envision any person or entity paying that rate.</p>
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		<title>By: getfitnow</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1112872</link>
		<dc:creator>getfitnow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1112872</guid>
		<description>LD is it true that under the Obama plan, the banks continue to get &quot;bailout&quot; funds from the government at 0% interest and can turn around and lend that money at a rate of-- I think it was 36 or 38%?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LD is it true that under the Obama plan, the banks continue to get &#8220;bailout&#8221; funds from the government at 0% interest and can turn around and lend that money at a rate of&#8211; I think it was 36 or 38%?</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Doyle</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1112855</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1112855</guid>
		<description>Teak....I am fairly certain that when the article refers to the &quot;biggest firm of it&#039;s kind&quot; they are not referring to the holding companies or parent companies but rather the  brokerage divisions within the holding companies. 

The brokerage division of Citi is Smith Barney, while th ebrokerage division within Morgan Stanley was a combination of the former Dean Witter and Morgan Stanley brokers. 

Thus this article is referring to the combined brokerage divisions as being the largest, not an entirely new firm that is larger than any of the current bank holding companies sucha s Bank of America or JP Morgan. 

The models that emerge will likely be a few massive bank holding companies. JP Morgan, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs. I would not be surprised to see Morgan Stanley purchased by HSBC. Goldman Sachs may end up merging with another large global banking firm as well. After we have these handful of behemoths I think we will have a lot of boutique investment banks. 

What a mess!!

Hope that makes sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teak&#8230;.I am fairly certain that when the article refers to the &#8220;biggest firm of it&#8217;s kind&#8221; they are not referring to the holding companies or parent companies but rather the  brokerage divisions within the holding companies. </p>
<p>The brokerage division of Citi is Smith Barney, while th ebrokerage division within Morgan Stanley was a combination of the former Dean Witter and Morgan Stanley brokers. </p>
<p>Thus this article is referring to the combined brokerage divisions as being the largest, not an entirely new firm that is larger than any of the current bank holding companies sucha s Bank of America or JP Morgan. </p>
<p>The models that emerge will likely be a few massive bank holding companies. JP Morgan, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs. I would not be surprised to see Morgan Stanley purchased by HSBC. Goldman Sachs may end up merging with another large global banking firm as well. After we have these handful of behemoths I think we will have a lot of boutique investment banks. </p>
<p>What a mess!!</p>
<p>Hope that makes sense.</p>
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		<title>By: TeakwoodKite</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1112814</link>
		<dc:creator>TeakwoodKite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1112814</guid>
		<description>Thanks LD for answering my questions as it can be difficult for a novice like myself to formulate a question clearly. I appreciatte your response.

What I caught my eye was that after this possible transaction with Morgan Stanley, it would become the largest in the world ahead of B of A.

 My question was more about economies of scale and the global market. Under the heading of &quot;to big to fail&quot;, is it right direction to go? I was thinking in terms of you saying the &quot;the model is broken&quot; and have been pondering what models will emerge.

I have the impression that after all the farm equipment auctions now the same banks are them selves on the block. Ironic, isn&#039;t?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks LD for answering my questions as it can be difficult for a novice like myself to formulate a question clearly. I appreciatte your response.</p>
<p>What I caught my eye was that after this possible transaction with Morgan Stanley, it would become the largest in the world ahead of B of A.</p>
<p> My question was more about economies of scale and the global market. Under the heading of &#8220;to big to fail&#8221;, is it right direction to go? I was thinking in terms of you saying the &#8220;the model is broken&#8221; and have been pondering what models will emerge.</p>
<p>I have the impression that after all the farm equipment auctions now the same banks are them selves on the block. Ironic, isn&#8217;t?</p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1112787</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1112787</guid>
		<description>Annie....the &quot;pay to play&quot; approach has ALWAYS been a HUGE problem in the municipal finance business. In very simple terms, the political appointees who are handling the allocation of capital in the determination of which banks get business typically get paid less than 6 figures. The bankers have been paid multiples of that and generate fees that are multiples times multiples of that. Add it all up and it is not difficult to see how the individual making 75k would say &quot;some of this is being kicked right back here.&quot;

Your point is very well taken and regrettably a simple reality. Where is the decency, honestly, and integrity in our country?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Annie&#8230;.the &#8220;pay to play&#8221; approach has ALWAYS been a HUGE problem in the municipal finance business. In very simple terms, the political appointees who are handling the allocation of capital in the determination of which banks get business typically get paid less than 6 figures. The bankers have been paid multiples of that and generate fees that are multiples times multiples of that. Add it all up and it is not difficult to see how the individual making 75k would say &#8220;some of this is being kicked right back here.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your point is very well taken and regrettably a simple reality. Where is the decency, honestly, and integrity in our country?</p>
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		<title>By: MBC</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1112774</link>
		<dc:creator>MBC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1112774</guid>
		<description>Social Security is available for Retirement, Disability and Family Survivors.  Medicare is  available to those with straight Social Security and Social Security Disability.

I know folks may consider the drug companies and providers the &quot;bad&quot; guys, but I can tell you from direct experience, that approx. 2/3&#039;s of  patients using specialty pharmaceuticals are on Medicare or Medicaid. The reimbursement from these government payors is in many if not most cases, below cost.  There is also a significant percentage of patients that have commercial insurance, but cannot afford their co-pays, co-insurance, out of pocket expenses, etc.  Generous grants are available from the drug manufacturer&#039;s (in addition to the federal rebates that are provided to the individual state Medicaid&#039;s from the manufacturers).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Social Security is available for Retirement, Disability and Family Survivors.  Medicare is  available to those with straight Social Security and Social Security Disability.</p>
<p>I know folks may consider the drug companies and providers the &#8220;bad&#8221; guys, but I can tell you from direct experience, that approx. 2/3&#8242;s of  patients using specialty pharmaceuticals are on Medicare or Medicaid. The reimbursement from these government payors is in many if not most cases, below cost.  There is also a significant percentage of patients that have commercial insurance, but cannot afford their co-pays, co-insurance, out of pocket expenses, etc.  Generous grants are available from the drug manufacturer&#8217;s (in addition to the federal rebates that are provided to the individual state Medicaid&#8217;s from the manufacturers).</p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1112772</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1112772</guid>
		<description>Teak....a few comments and questions.

Smith Barney merged with Salomon Bros in the early 90s after Salomon was involved in a Treasury bid rigging scandal. 

Salomon-Smith Barney was then purchased by Citigroup a few years later.

I am reading your question as to whether it is wise that Morgan Stanley purchase Smith Barney. First off, it is plainly obvious that Citi badly needs capital. There has been pressure on Citi to break up the massive firm because of an inability to manage the total risk. They always resisted. Now it appears that the pressures are too great and I would envision that we will Citi dismantled. 

Smith Barney is primarily a retail brokerage network. They act as brokers, have very little principal risk taking activities and simply generate earnings through their retail brokerage business. 

By selling SB, Citi will generate some of that badly needed capital but also inhibit or lessen future growth. 

Not sure if that answers your question. Is that what you were driving towards with your question? Or were you inquiring whether the government should be an equity holder in these companies?

I am not a student on the Islamic banking models so I do not want to pretend that I am. I do recall discussing at one point the topic of primarily utilizing arbitration in settlements and how the arbitration process was a key component of the Islamic banking model. Let me do a little homework.

I have not heard anything about the credit card trend. My response to that would be that you very pointedly nad emphatically tell the company that you may very well take your business elsewhere if they tried to impose a lower limit. Stand up and fight them. I do not carry a balance and if they eevr tried to impose something liek that, I would tell them that they are likely to lose a customer and that I would share that news with every  friend, relative, and family member. 

Have any of our followers heard anything about this?

Let me knwo if I addressed your initial question properly. I think I may have misinterpreted it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teak&#8230;.a few comments and questions.</p>
<p>Smith Barney merged with Salomon Bros in the early 90s after Salomon was involved in a Treasury bid rigging scandal. </p>
<p>Salomon-Smith Barney was then purchased by Citigroup a few years later.</p>
<p>I am reading your question as to whether it is wise that Morgan Stanley purchase Smith Barney. First off, it is plainly obvious that Citi badly needs capital. There has been pressure on Citi to break up the massive firm because of an inability to manage the total risk. They always resisted. Now it appears that the pressures are too great and I would envision that we will Citi dismantled. </p>
<p>Smith Barney is primarily a retail brokerage network. They act as brokers, have very little principal risk taking activities and simply generate earnings through their retail brokerage business. </p>
<p>By selling SB, Citi will generate some of that badly needed capital but also inhibit or lessen future growth. </p>
<p>Not sure if that answers your question. Is that what you were driving towards with your question? Or were you inquiring whether the government should be an equity holder in these companies?</p>
<p>I am not a student on the Islamic banking models so I do not want to pretend that I am. I do recall discussing at one point the topic of primarily utilizing arbitration in settlements and how the arbitration process was a key component of the Islamic banking model. Let me do a little homework.</p>
<p>I have not heard anything about the credit card trend. My response to that would be that you very pointedly nad emphatically tell the company that you may very well take your business elsewhere if they tried to impose a lower limit. Stand up and fight them. I do not carry a balance and if they eevr tried to impose something liek that, I would tell them that they are likely to lose a customer and that I would share that news with every  friend, relative, and family member. </p>
<p>Have any of our followers heard anything about this?</p>
<p>Let me knwo if I addressed your initial question properly. I think I may have misinterpreted it.</p>
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		<title>By: Annie Oakley</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1112769</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie Oakley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1112769</guid>
		<description>To the week&#039;s news lets add Bill Richardson&#039;s withdrawal from commerce secretary, an event that &quot;offers a rare glimpse into a long-simmering investigation of possible bid-rigging, tax evasion and other wrongdoing throughout the municipal bond business.&quot;

This story might be much closer than it appears in the rearview mirror, and surely as we look to cut costs to balance budgets, we should first look to rid the system of corruption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the week&#8217;s news lets add Bill Richardson&#8217;s withdrawal from commerce secretary, an event that &#8220;offers a rare glimpse into a long-simmering investigation of possible bid-rigging, tax evasion and other wrongdoing throughout the municipal bond business.&#8221;</p>
<p>This story might be much closer than it appears in the rearview mirror, and surely as we look to cut costs to balance budgets, we should first look to rid the system of corruption.</p>
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		<title>By: MBC</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/10581/larry-doyles-lds-dollars-and-sense-central-station/#comment-1112748</link>
		<dc:creator>MBC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=10581#comment-1112748</guid>
		<description>Oh that&#039;s just great.  The 401K, the profits from the sale of our residence, the stocks, etc. have all been reduced to zip and now the pittance we were going to receive from SS may be reduced.  Swell, can&#039;t wait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh that&#8217;s just great.  The 401K, the profits from the sale of our residence, the stocks, etc. have all been reduced to zip and now the pittance we were going to receive from SS may be reduced.  Swell, can&#8217;t wait.</p>
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