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Illegitimate, Soul-less Hate

I have never understood anti-semitism. It is morally and socially unacceptable to lump any other people I can think of into one group and say that group somehow is less than human. While we periodically go through sensitivities about different races, ethnicities or social groupings, in the end, we decide it’s not OK to suggest that any one group is somehow the root of all ills.

Anyone think it’s OK to use racial epithets for no reason other than that you aren’t part of that racial group? And while some words are more “bad” than others, using any of them in public and/or “polite society” will mark you as a bigot.

Anyone think it’s OK to even mock threaten a group with a history of persecution in the language of that persecution? In other words, is it OK to yell “get lynched” to AAs? Is it OK to tell Japanese-Americans that they should be back in internment camps? Is it really OK to tell Native Americans to stay on the “stay on the res” if they know what’s good for them?

Read the rest ->

Anyone think it’s OK to blame all muslims for the insanity of suicide bombers and crazy mullahs? Remember all the concern right after 9/11 about reprisals against muslims in America? Weren’t we all cautioned, time and again, to watch our prejudices?

Then why is it OK to hate Jews? This writer certainly would like to know why.

In Amsterdam, the crowd shouts, “Hamas, Hamas! Jews to the gas!”

In Paris, the state-owned TV network France-2 broadcasts film of dozens of dead Palestinians killed in an Israeli air raid on New Year’s Day. The channel subsequently admits that, in fact, the footage is not from Jan. 1, 2009, but from 2005, and, while the corpses are certainly Palestinian, they were killed when a truck loaded with Hamas explosives detonated prematurely while leaving the Jabaliya refugee camp in another of those unfortunate work-related accidents to which Gaza is sadly prone. Conceding that the Palestinians supposedly killed by Israel were, alas, killed by Hamas, France-2 says the footage was broadcast “accidentally.”

In Toulouse, a synagogue is firebombed; in Bordeaux, two kosher butchers are attacked; at the Auber RER train station, a Jewish man is savagely assaulted by 20 youths taunting, “Palestine will kill the Jews”; in Villiers-le-Bel, a Jewish schoolgirl is brutally beaten by a gang jeering, “Jews must die.”

In Helsingborg, Sweden, the congregation at a synagogue takes shelter as a window is broken and burning cloths thrown in. in Odense, principal Olav Nielsen announces that he will no longer admit Jewish children to the local school after a Dane of Lebanese extraction goes to the shopping mall and shoots two men working at the Dead Sea Products store. in Brussels, a Molotov cocktail is hurled at a synagogue; in Antwerp, Netherlands, lit rags are pushed through the mail flap of a Jewish home; and, across the Channel in Britain, “youths” attempt to burn the Brondesbury Park Synagogue.

Of course, there’s this wonderful girl in Fort Lauderdale screaming “You need a big oven, that’s what you need!” See time 3:24 for her solution to the Israel / Palestinian conflict.

But the article asks a good question.

. . . what has a schoolgirl in Villiers-le-Bel to do with Israeli government policy? Just weeks ago, terrorists attacked Mumbai, seized hostages, tortured them, killed them, and mutilated their bodies. The police intercepts of the phone conversations between the terrorists and their controllers make for lively reading:

“Pakistan caller 1: ‘Kill all hostages, except the two Muslims. Keep your phone switched on so that we can hear the gunfire.’

“Mumbai terrorist 2: ‘We have three foreigners, including women. From Singapore and China’

“Pakistan caller 1: ‘Kill them.’

“(Voices of gunmen can be heard directing hostages to stand in a line, and telling two Muslims to stand aside. Sound of gunfire. Sound of cheering voices.)”

“Kill all hostages, except the two Muslims.” Tough for those Singaporean women. Yet no mosques in Singapore have been attacked. The large Hindu populations in London, Toronto and Fort Lauderdale have not shouted “Muslims must die!” or firebombed Halal butchers or attacked hijab-clad schoolgirls. CAIR and other Muslim lobby groups’ eternal bleating about “Islamophobia” is in inverse proportion to any examples of it. Meanwhile, “moderate Muslims” in London warn the government: “I’m a peaceful fellow myself, but I can’t speak for my excitable friends. Nice little G7 advanced Western democracy you got here. Shame if anything were to happen to it.”
But why worry about European Muslims? The European political and media class essentially shares the same view of the situation – to the point where state TV stations are broadcasting fake Israeli “war crimes.”

You should note I’m not at all discussing the actions taken by either side in the latest never-ending conflict between Israel and Palestinians. Others can and do a far better job of talking through that morass.

What I object to is the disproportionate assignment of blame to one side in this conflict. We’re all told, growing up, that it “takes two to fight.” Yet we seem to think if the fight is asymetric that the side using “weaker” tactics is the one less blame-worthy.

Using suicide bombers and firing rockets is no less a declaration of war than is mobilizing an army. And it’s easier to do and easier to deny. We probably don’t think of that as “war” because it is not our image of war. But it is. We also don’t know how to effectively counter those tactics, and that’s unfortunate because people have been strapping on bombs in many parts of the world, not just Israel. But Israel has been the target for asymetric war over a longer and more intense period than any other place in the world.

So, Israel declares war using what we recognize as conventional war-making tactics and Jews the world over are suddenly told to “get a bigger oven.” Doesn’t that seem disproportionate? Why are Jews in Europe or the US now targets of anti-semitism? Why is it rationalized in the press?

I’ve read explanations for why Jews outside of Israel are considered complicit in actions of Israel although this is never the case with any other racial or ethnic minority. But I just don’t buy it. It’s too easy; it’s wrong; and it’s evil.

And why the particular sensitivity where Jews are concerned? For some reason, anti-semitism returns again and again. Every so often, you see epithets against Jews and justifications for anti-semitic actions from otherwise respectable organizations. I also don’t understand this. When we decide a group has been persecuted and it is wrong, people typically take steps to quash aggressive behavior toward that group by others.

But anti-semitism comes back again and again, with assaults and death. I have no idea why. But it’s no less wrong than any other form of aggression, organized or otherwise.

No doubt this post will generate a slew of comments conflating Jews around the world with the Israeli government, justifying “anger, frustration” or whatever against Jews in general. That’s weak and illogical.

There are no acceptable justifications for hating on Jews in Amsterdam because you don’t agree with actions of the Israeli government.

Someone should tell that to the girl yelling about ovens.

  • mountainaires

    Gideon Levy in Haaretz:

    This war, perhaps more than its predecessors, is exposing the true deep veins of Israeli society. Racism and hatred are rearing their heads, as is the impulse for revenge and the thirst for blood. The “inclination of the commander” in the Israel Defense Forces is now “to kill as many as possible,” as the military correspondents on television describe it. And even if the reference is to Hamas fighters, this inclination is still chilling.

    The unbridled aggression and brutality are justified as “exercising caution”: the frightening balance of blood – about 100 Palestinian dead for every Israeli killed, isn’t raising any questions, as if we’ve decided that their blood is worth one hundred times less than ours, in acknowledgement of our inherent racism.

    [...]

    Anyone who justifies this war also justifies all its crimes. Anyone who sees it as a defensive war must bear the moral responsibility for its consequences. Anyone who now encourages the politicians and the army to continue will also have to bear the mark of Cain that will be branded on his forehead after the war. All those who support the war also support the horror.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054158.html

    • barb

      I defend Israel and my God is fine with that!

      • Mary

        Your God said “Thou shalt not kill.”

        Joshua proceeded to slaughter every man, woman, child, and animal in Jericho to take the land.

        Think your God was OK with that?

  • Carol

    Israel must defend itself. Hamas must be eliminated.

    • SN in MN

      Bigot.

  • http://360.yahoo.com Rumrunnerok

    Lisa:

    Good post.

    Yet…since my childhood & now 55…I have been subjected to all of this previously & currently ~ conflict.

    I post a short every once in awhile…the current one says: “I say we round up these international gangs of “terrorists”…in all countries. Let’s start w/ the Bush administration. Then – the rest of us can continue to live and enjoy”.

    A few sick individuals who form gangs and threaten the general population need be bound and imprisioned.

    May we do just that ~ that is the true meaning…for me…of soldiering.

  • HC

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh please stop the endless Israel/Palestine bickering on this blog!

    • http://360.yahoo.com Rumrunnerok

      Leave…

      • HC

        I think I will, thanks for adding to the civil tone of this blog lately.

        • http://360.yahoo.com Rumrunnerok

          Thank you…I am sad for the world.

  • http://budwhite.wordpress.com/ Bud White

    What I object to is the disproportionate assignment of blame to one side in this conflict.

    Yes, LisaB, I feel exactly the same way. Of course civilians get killed in urban warfare — and it’s horrible — but the knee-jerk reaction of some is to blame “teh jews” and not talk about why the Israelis are taking this action. Several hundred civilians have been killed in this conflict — and that’s tragic — but nearly 100,000 civilians have been killed in Iraq and I don’t hear Americans calling other Americans “Nazis.”

    http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

    • mountainaires
      • http://budwhite.wordpress.com/ Bud White

        Your link is to a barely literate piece of antisemitic propaganda. Nice.

        from your link:

        How can they as Muslims in a racist Jewish state where Israelis oppressive them with impunity

        • Idiocracy08

          Just curious.

          Do you think Israel wants peace with Palestinians, or do you think they want them out?

          What would the result be if they had peace and agreed to the 2 state solution?

          Wouldn’t the Israeli’s be worried that with a 2 state solution, there would be a majority of Arabs represented, and that wouldn’t bode well for the Israeli’s in elections?

          • irish1139

            As long as there are Islamist terrorists, Israel will not be able to live in peace. When are you going to believe what the Islamists have been telling us for centuries.

            Death to the infidels.

            They mean to kill us all. If Israel is ever defeated America will be next.

            Why the Americans refuse to believe what Muslim terrorists have been telling us for centuries is beyond me. They want us dead, dead, dead.

            The moderate muslims could care less, they are already muslim.

            • Idiocracy08

              Thanks for the comment, but it doesn’t answer the questions.

              Not all muslims want us dead. Muhammad Ali does not want us dead. Cat Stevens does not want us dead.

              Why the Americans refuse to believe what Muslim terrorists have been telling us for centuries is beyond me. They want us dead, dead, dead.

              Oh, trust me…I know it. It’s THE reason I’m too afraid to travel outside the US. Problem is, there are people all over that want us dead. Not just muslims. I don’t lump them all together, because my family has been very good friends with a family from Lebanon. They love the US, and love us. You’d probably look at the guy’s daughters and think they were Jewish. One looks just like Fran Drescher.

              There is also a very nice story about some Jews that live in Bahrain and love it there. It’s a good read:
              http://haruth.com/jw/JewsBahrain.html

              The last statement says this:
              “When I die, I hope to be buried here,” says Meir. “Our Jewish cemetery is very well kept, and it’s been here for over one hundred years. It is right next to the Christian cemetery, and the Shi’as cemetery is across the street from us. We live together and we rest in peace together, just the way it should be.”

        • mountainaires

          Ilan Pappe–an Israeli historian–is anti-semitic? Are you insane, Bud? You are clearly part of the problem, as Jewish and Israeli historians, writers, and reporters keep trying to tell you.

          Here’s another historian, Dr. Sara Roy, child of holocaust survivors, who lived in Gaza for 3 years:

          http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0411/S00172.htm

          Dr. Sara Roy Speaks About Her Life Work in Gaza
          Monday, 15 November 2004, 1:20 pm
          Article: Sonia Nettnin

          Harvard Researcher Speaks About Her Life Work in Gaza

          Dr. Sarah Roy is one of the foremost scholars on the economy in Gaza. She is the author of over 90 publications on the Israel-Palestine conflict; and she is senior researcher at the Center for Middle Eastern Studies at Harvard University. She spoke about her identity as a daughter of Holocaust survivors and her life work in Gaza.

          “My parents cared about issues of justice and fairness,” Roy said. “They cared about people a great deal.”

          It was not uncommon for her family to bring home a homeless person and sit them at the head of the table during Sabbath. Her mother came from a deeply religious and loving family. Her parents taught Judaism as a system of ethics and culture. As a result, it provided a context for Roy’s life, which included compassion and tolerance.

          Her first experience with the occupation involved a Palestinian man who walked with his grandson. They had a donkey with them. Israeli soldiers walked by and asked: “Don’t you brush your donkey’s teeth?” The soldiers yelled and laughed at the man. His grandson – a boy no more than four years-old – cried.

          Then, the soldiers demanded the elderly man stand behind the donkey and kiss its behind. Roy remembered the humiliation the man felt and the uncontrollable sobs of a little boy.

          Since 1985, Roy lived, experienced and witnessed similar situations. When she was in a shelter with a Palestinian woman, they felt fear when Israeli soldiers banged down the door. She witnessed Israeli soldiers force young, Palestinian men kneel and bark like dogs or dance in the streets. When a Palestinian woman, who was pregnant, flashed a “V” sign to Israeli soldiers, Roy saw them beat her.

          The grinding impact of the occupation on the Palestinian people and their daily lives led Roy to a dissertation on the economic development of the West Bank and Gaza under the military conditions of occupation. Her PhD is in planning and social policy. Her passion for her work brings her to the region frequently where she lives for several months.

          Over the years, Roy witnessed home demolitions.

          “The house is far more than the roof…it represents life itself,” she said. She says the demolitions uproot these families tragically, who live their lives from a stolen homeland.

          Roy talked about the separation of Palestinian families, the thousands of people tortured and the thousands of olive and citrus trees uprooted from Palestinian land. She described the effects of Israeli settlements and road expansion as geographic fragmentation, because the topography of the land changes drastically in periods of several years.

          Right now Palestinians live on three, noncontiguous cantons of land. Truncated pieces of land with checkpoints and detours not only make their lives difficult, but the formulation of a Palestinian state is almost impossible.

          “Israeli occupation of the Palestinians is the crux of the problem,” Roy said. From her life experiences in the region, Roy sees no moral symmetry between the occupier and the occupied

          .

          Full Article at:

          http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0411/S00172.htm

          “It is a great mystery that though the human heart longs for Truth, in which alone it finds liberation and delight, the first reaction of human beings to Truth is one of hostility and fear.” Anthony de Mello

  • Room 237

    I really do not see how anyone can be happy about what is happening in Gaza. Even someone who geenrally sympathizes with Israel (as I do) and who in the same situation probably would have reacted the same.

    But there is a deep strain of anti-semitism coming out here.

    In 2001, I was changing trains after a lkong and annoying day at work. Some member of an international socialist organization was handing out flyers about “US attrocities” in Afghanistan. I declined but he was persistent. Usually I take the flyer in that case so the person will go away but for some reason I told him to go “F” himself and shove the flyer up his, well, you know.

    His reaction was to loudly call me a “fag Jew”. Funny that was his default (especially as I am very Italian looking).

    • http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com/ obamastolemyboyfriend

      I am terrified that the world has become so hateful!

      I must side with the Jews because we do need to root out the terrorists. Hamas are terrorists. Don’t kid yourself, they are.

      How do you ever acheve peace while we allow terrorists to continue to terrorize people?

      What is the answer? You cannot negotiate with a terrorist and that is a fact. so what are countries to do when attacked by them?

      • http://360.yahoo.com Rumrunnerok

        Take out the “bad-boys” & carry on…Go get Bush

        & Co. first…then…all the other asses that

        think they rule. Need a ruler to gauge what I am

        saying?

      • elise

        When I was a child, my family had some close friends who moved to Saudi Arabia. Mr. B. was an engineer and worked for Standard Oil, I believe. I am called Elise after her.

        They returned for a visit once and I was impressed by the exotic nature of their new home and asked so many questions, my mother chided me. I was especially interested in the people.

        Elise said she loved them. They were kind to her and her family, welcomed them into their homes and taught her children Arabic. I was so enchanted by her descriptions, I asked to visit one day. I was too young to go and I’ve always regretted the visit wasn’t allowed.

        After 9/11 Americans asked why they hated us so much and pretty soon we were being told they hate our freedom and way of life. Or, they want the entire world to convert to Islam.

        I won’t attempt to draw the conclusions here because they are self evident. This post is full of the very hate being deplored against the Palestinians and any one who might question the wisdom and morality of Israel’s policy. Larry Johnson and others have tried to balence it all with reason, but we always come back to the Holocaust as if it justifies everything.

        We will never forget people say, but I believe originally, that phrase had a wider meaning. We will not forget the lessons and will never allow this to happen to ANY group of people again. Well, excuse the hell out of me, but it is happening again, not to Jews, but in Darfur, the Sudan and Palestine. Apparently, we have forgotten.

        These friends were fundamentalist Christians and this occurred in the late 1960′s. I don’t believe Muslims hated America then. There were no terrorist then. What has happened is a result of American policy in the ME. They have what we want,oil. It is a non-renewable, limited resource upon which we have become completely dependent in our country.

        It seems very simple when you accept those simple facts. We want to control this resource and to do so means we must become involved with and have influence over the countries which are rich in this resource. Our interference has made enemies. The CIA trained Ben Laden to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan and provided him the weapons he needed.

        We supported a coup in Iran in the 1980′s and made more enemies. We invaded Iraq, not to establish Democracy, but to expand our influence in the ME. We sold weapons to both Iraq and Iran in their war. We gave tacit approval to Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait and then mobilized an army to defeat him.

    • Pennsylvania Red

      His reaction was to loudly call me a “fag Jew”. Funny that was his default (especially as I am very Italian looking).

      haha

      Eye-talians, Joos, we all look alike!

      I have a friend, he’s Lebanese, I’ve witnessed people mistake him for:

      Mexican
      Puerto Rican
      AA
      Palestinian
      Iranian
      Indian
      and notably, in France, a bunch of guys derisively called out to him: maque-a-roni!(Italian)

      I call him the “All Purpose Brown Man”.

    • Mary

      Anti-semitism and anti-Zionism are not the same.

      You’d be well served to work harder to understand the difference.

  • Barium

    In Amsterdam, the crowd shouts, “Hamas, Hamas! Jews to the gas!”

    ————-
    I think, from their point of view, they see the Israeli neocons as analogous to Hitler’s Nazis, attacking and persecuting a defenselelss people, intent on genocide, Gaza a concentration camp.

    I’m not arguing this point, I’m simply stating how this war is viewed by some.

    But certainly, we wouldn’t be yelling “off to the ovens with you,” at the Israeli neocons, or their American counterparts — certainly we are more civilized, we have more control, and it is a revolting, despicable comment.

    And it only worsens what is already a horrific situaiton.

    WE really dont care about the crips and the bloods, we do care when they start murdering civilians.

    • Idiocracy08

      WE really dont care about the crips and the bloods, we do care when they start murdering civilians.

      But do we go bomb the entire neighborhood when they do kill people?

      • Barium

        No, we don’t.

        But as with Israel, and Hamas, we do care when innocent Palestinian civilians are harmed, needlessly.

        Otherwise, we would be uncivilized.

        I would think Larry, and those like him, must be a stone in the eye of some.

        That’s a good thing.

        • Barium

          And I should have added innocent Israeli citizens, my mistake.

          Sorry.

        • Dawnelle

          Not wild about your “name” but totally agree with your post.

          barium, heh

          don’t they give that to people so they can read their insides?? To unblock something or what ever?

          why not pick an element more exciting like mercury or iodine or carbon citrate? lol

      • Chris

        What do you do to get the cowards(Hamas) out of the middle of the civilian population? Should Israel continue to be subjected to constant(years) bombing of their civilians without recourse? No one wants to see innocents subjected to violence, but look at our own inner cities and the violence there. Should we not react and risk some casualties to protect the majority of innocent hard working people? Should Israel? I have not heard any one of these disgusting protestors suggest a solution that protects Israelis as well. Non violent solutions are not what the terrorists react to. They will never stop. They do not care if they die or if innocent people die. So, all you brilliant protestors, what is the solution? The bible says “an eye for an eye.” After all reasonable attempts to settle a dispute rationally and to the benefit of both sides, then fighting back must be considered. I have seen the Israelis live with this persecution and try to settle issues with patience and compassion before resorting to this. What have the Hamas organization done? Constant Violence. What is the solution that is good for both sides? Hamas does not care about the Paletinian people. They use them to promote their hate and violence and blame others for it so they can get the sympathy of the ignorant world.

    • barb

      I’m not in the least surprised by the European attitude for the Jews. Hitler was just giving the Germans what they wanted: Get rid of the Jews. This all really gives me new insight to what my father said when he came home after WWII, “They(Europeans) knew what happend to the Jews, they supported what happened to the Jews, and they are lying about it now to save their as*ses.

  • C.S.

    That woman yelling about ovens is here, in the United States, in Florida. She either chose to come to this country for a reason or her parents chose for her to be born here because there were no Muslim colonies in the United States before or after this nation was formed. Our Constitution makes it perfectly clear that no religion is considered superior and that no one may force their religion on anyone else within our borders.

    And that means that her religion does not elevate her above anyone in this country. If she wishes to practice a violent tenet of her religion it will not be done here. We arrest citizens for hate speech that incites violence against a group and we deport non citizens for hate speech that incites violence against our citizens of any religion. Seven years ago we suffered a violent attack against our country by religious fanatics, and we have no intention of having it repeated. “Once burned, twice shy”. This unprovoked attack was seared into our national consciousness and we are still leery of anyone shouting intolerance.

    I seldom say this, but if this girl and her fellow protesters do not like the way we protect our citizens she is free to go and live elsewhere. They are not the first, and sadly will not be the last, to use our free country for their own violent prejudices. But as long as our Constitution survives, they will not be allowed to practice their violent hatred freely. Not here.

  • Peggy Sue

    Brava, Lisa.

    This needed to be said and remembered. I’m perfectly willing to concede that Israel may regret her current action, that there could be a smarter way to attack Hamas with less pain and agony for everyone involved.

    But using inflammatory language, comparing this incursion to a “holocaust or a genocide” is not only inaccurate but exacerbates anti-Semitism and gives it legitmacy. It’s morally repugnant.

    We can criticize allies without tearing them down and apart. And we better be careful what we wish for because these terrorists won’t stop with Israel. This hatred goes far beyond Middle Eastern borders.

    • http://budwhite.wordpress.com/ Bud White

      We can criticize allies without tearing them down and apart

      Exactly!

      • mountainaires

        Amira Hass:
        Life Under Israeli Occupation – By an Israeli
        Jewish journalist Amira Hass doesn’t merely report on the experiences of Palestinians on the West Bank – she shares their lives

        by Robert Fisk

        In her evocative book Drinking the Sea at Gaza, Hass eloquently explains why she, an Israeli journalist, went to live in Yasser Arafat’s tiny, garbage-strewn statelet. “In the end,” she wrote, “my desire to live in Gaza stemmed neither from adventurism nor from insanity, but from that dread of being a bystander, from my need to understand, down to the last detail, a world that is, to the best of my political and historical comprehension, a profoundly Israeli creation. To me, Gaza embodies the entire saga of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; it represents the central contradiction of the state of Israel – democracy for some, dispossession for others; it is our exposed nerve.”

        Now living in the West Bank town of Ramallah – with the Palestinians whom many of her people regard as “terrorists”, listening to the Palestinian curses heaped upon “the Jews” for their confiscations and dispossessions and murder squads and settlements – Amira Hass is among the bravest of reporters, her daily column in Ha’aretz ablaze with indignation at the way her own country, Israel, is mistreating and killing the Palestinians. Only when you meet her, however, do you realize the intensity – the passion – of her work. “There is a misconception that journalists can be objective,” she tells me, the same sharp glance to ensure my comprehension. “Palestinians tell me I’m objective. I think this is important because I’m an Israeli. But being fair and being objective are not the same thing. What journalism is really about – it’s to monitor power and the centers of power.”

        Each day, Amira Hass writes an essay about despair, a chronological narrative she maintains when talking about her own life and about her parents: her mother, a Sarajevo Jew who joined Tito’s partisans and was forced to surrender to the Nazis when they threatened to kill every woman in the Montenegrin town of Cetinje; her father Avraham who spent four years in the Transnistria ghetto, escaping a plague of typhus only to lose his toes to frostbite.

        http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0826-04.htm

        “It is a great mystery that though the human heart longs for Truth, in which alone it finds liberation and delight, the first reaction of human beings to Truth is one of hostility and fear.” Anthony de Mello

        • rayve

          Thank you for bringing these names and views to the discussion.

    • Barium

      But using inflammatory language, comparing this incursion to a “holocaust or a genocide” is not only inaccurate but exacerbates anti-Semitism and gives it legitmacy. It’s morally repugnant.

      In all honesty, Peggy Sue, I would really like to see more numbers, know more FACTS, before I make that determination.

      Surely, something isn’t right, I’d like to hear their side, too, as I didnt really understand there was another side, until these last few years — and I’m not speaking of Hamas, I’m speaking of Palestine. (A terrorist group is a terrorist group is a terrorist group — there is no dealing with them, no matter who they are –).

      Whether it’s a war, or a divorce, both sides generally have merit an any disagreemnt, and certainly one has to look beyond the superficial.

      A good mediator understands, and listens to both.

      And when one side is unable to understand, or change, it’s up to the other side to change their behavior, or tactics.

      Isnt this just common sense?

      • Barium

        Hamas wont change it’s tactics, Israel neither, with the sentiment “we must bomb to survive,” they’ve made it clear they have no intention of another approach until Hamas ceases operations.

        Certainly no one wants this constant violence, leading to more instabilty, and war, especially as further inflamation can lead to increased attacks on US troops in the area.

        So now what?

  • Lisabona

    I agree 100% with C.S. and those who have a fair judgement about Israel/Palestine. I’m not muslim not jewes. I’m a naturalized American citizen for almost 30 years. I have a strong belief, if somebody emigrated in USA, for political,religiousori any other reason, MUST ADAPT, of the USA custom. If you want to keep your own custom([parka) stay in your own country and do it. Keep your beliefs for yourself and don’t force me to watch your hatred(like a Fort Lauderdale girl) Israel warned Palestine to stop but they continue.Israel has a right to defend themselfs. If Palestine can stop their hatred, and have no any intension whatsoever to live in PEACE just kill jews they have to be judged by the world and not sustain their hatred with lies(France) shame of them. I’m sorry to say, I don’t hate, I can’t, but I don’t trust Hamas, who is exposing his people safety for his ideal glory.

    • Barium

      and don’t force me to watch your hatred(like a Fort Lauderdale girl) Israel warned Palestine to stop but they continue.Israel has a right to defend themselfs. If Palestine can stop their hatred
      ———-

      Certainly, the issue is more complex than pot, kettle black, with far more at risk for Israel, than the Palestinians.

      And nothing justifies the senseless murder of innocent civlians.

      And now, with US troops in the area, it is up to Israel to think rationally.

      Because Israel is more than a terrorist group, right, understanding how the world connects, far more sophisticated than Hamas, understanding the US also has interests it needs to protect?

      • barb

        Protecting United States interest has nothing to do with going against Israel. The Arab/Muslim terrorists have harmed the United States way to much to ever be considered in an alliance with them. European interest is something the U.S. would seek to protect, but if they start up with their past anti-semitism we might have to bomb them again like we did in WWII and not pay to rebuild their sorry citizens this time. Get your world view straight Barium or take your arguments to somebody else who would be ignorant enough to believe them.

        • Mary

          Uh, no, Barb.

          NYTimes and WAPO reported yesterday that Israel asked permission to use Iraqi airspace (we controlled it last year) to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities a year ago.

          Pentagon told the president absolutely not, given the harm it could cause to our soldiers serving in Iraq.

          Israel was angry we said no, and couldn’t have cared less how that choice might have affected our soldiers.

          Your FIRST responsibility is to our own soldiers and your fellow Americans, and NOT to some silly “God gave us this land” legend, or “We can bomb anyone we want to” arrogance.

          It IS Israel’s responsibility to act rationally, if it affects my fellow Americans serving in Iraq.

          Due respect.

          • barb

            Israel has always shown the restraint asked by the United States in all matters related to the Middle East. Israel defers to the U.S. That is why Israel is such a good friend to America. Israel could have solved this “terrorist” problem a long time ago, but they are trying to show good will to the U.S. Israelis did not want to give up the Gaza Strip and the West Bank(they won these areas far and square), but they did so in the spirit of compromise. You see that true friendships are built on compromise, trust, and loyalty. These characteristics are not found in the terrorist mindset. It is all blind hatred with a single minded focus on the destruction of Israel. The terrorists that you support are incapable of compromise, trust or loyalty. Even I feel for the poor people caught in the middle of this war and long for the day they can have normal, safe lives. This will not happen while they are infested with terrorist groups. Perhaps, we can all live together happily after the terrorists have been destroyed.

  • Peggy Sue

    Yes, Bud. I agree that we need to look at both sides and that Israel’s current action will probably end not unlike the push into Lebanon–dead bodies and a PR victory for terrorism.

    If Israel was indiscrimately killing thousands upon thousands, I would be the first to say, Enough! But I think current deaths are around 800 with many more wounded. Gaza City reportedly has a population of around 400,000 with 1.5 million people living on the strip itself.

    I’m not minimizing 800 deaths. And no one wants to see children dying. Armed conflict means death and destruction. But as awful as 9/11 was did anyone refer to it as a genocide, a holocaust?

    We dilute the words when we throw them around like this. And in this case, the word “holocaust” has a very particular historical context. I don’t think its liberal use is an accident.

    So, yes we need more information. Unfortunately, common sense is in scarce supply these days.

    • Idiocracy08

      But as awful as 9/11 was did anyone refer to it as a genocide, a holocaust?

      No because it’s not. It was a terroristic act. However, many people feel that what is going on in Gaza is a holocaust (not THE Holocaust of WWII, but one nonetheless) or genecide.

  • Peggy Sue

    Sorry–that last post should have been addressed to Barium.

  • http://budwhite.wordpress.com/ Bud White
  • Peggy Sue

    The point is that the “The Holocaust” resulted in the deliberate extermination of 6 million Jews and 6 million non Jews. And what people “feel” about a word being used has nothing to do with it. It’s not applicable, unless we’re trying to inflame an already incendiary situation.

    Language has inherent power to twist attitudes and perceptions out of shape and size. 9/11 was indeed a terrorist attack. And I would argue that suicide bombings and lobbing rockets at your neighbors is also a terrorist act.

    We can criticize Israel on the wisdom of her current actions. But calling something a holocaust/genocide when clearly it is not does not help the situation. Unless, of course, promoting propaganda is your aim.

    • Idiocracy08

      1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, esp. by fire.
      2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering.
      3. (usually initial capital letter) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during World War II (usually prec. by the).
      4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.

      We dilute the words when we throw them around like this. And in this case, the word “holocaust” has a very particular historical context. I don’t think its liberal use is an accident.

      To use your own words:

      And what people “feel” about a word being used has nothing to do with it.

      • Peggy Sue

        I think “mass slaughter, completely consumed, complete devastation” are key phrases here, idiocracy.

        Holocaust is not applicable in this situation, no matter how you stretch it.

        Tragedy is the word.

        • Idiocracy08

          pick and choose.

          i think what’s going on is a great devastation, and a reckless destruction of life. so we use words for our opinions. or we may use an extreme word to describe how we feel about it.

          question: is it wrong for me to say the Chinese suffered a holocaust during WWII? or the Russians?

  • http://medusa2.wordpress.com medusa

    Lisa,
    Thank you so much for this thoughtful and well-considered post. You do an excellent job of explicating how bigotry gets folded into criticism.

    There are some Jews who unfortunately have internalized anti-Semitism.

    And then their are people like Mountainaire, who are simply hateful anti-Semites with an earthworm’s understanding of the reality of the situation.

    It appears that PEBO understands and supports Israel’s need to defend itself from the Hamas.

    • mountainaires

      Jews who reject Israeli policies in Gaza are “self-hating Jews,” according to Medusa, who doesn’t even know how offensive such insults are to Jews.

      Israeli Journalist Decries Civilian Casualties in Gaza

      NEW YORK A powerful column appeared Tuesday in the Jerusalem daily Haaretz, written by one of its top correspondents, Amira Hass, reporting on Gaza, which opens:

      “This isn’t the time to speak of ethics, but of precise intelligence. Whoever gave the instructions to send 100 of our planes, piloted by the best of our boys, to bomb and strafe enemy targets in Gaza is familiar with the many schools adjacent to those targets — especially police stations. He also knew that at exactly 11:30 A.M. on Saturday, during the surprise assault on the enemy, all the children of the Strip would be in the streets – half just having finished the morning shift at school, the others en route to the afternoon shift.”

      It goes on from there, in angry tones, and follows her dispatches of the past two days, also highlighting avoidable (in her view) civilian casualties, now amounting to a thousand or more, including the injured.

      But who is Amira Hass?

      For those quick to label criticism of Israeli military offensives “anti-Semitic,” with little recognition of the Jews’ special suffering during World War II, consider this:

      Hass is not only an Israeli but both of her parents are Holocaust camp survivors. Yet she has gone on to become the most prominent Israeli journalist to make it her mission to report as often as possible from Gaza and the West Bank – breaking bans and earning the wrath of both Israeli and Palestinian officials. She earned headlines in this regard just in the past month.

      Hass was born in Jerusalem, and studied the history of Nazism at Hebrew University. She joined Haaretz in 1989 and began living nearly fulltime in Gaza or Ramallah starting in 1993. She earned the Press Freedom Hero award from the International Press Institute in 2000, among other international journalism prizes. She now lives in Ramallah.

      Earlier this year, now a regular Haaretz columnist, Hass traveled to Gaza by boat to demonstrate her opposition to the Israeli blockade. On December 1, she was ordered to leave by Hamas, and arrested by Israeli police on her return to Israel.

      In recent days, she has gathered information on the toll on civilians in Gaza via telephone. More from today’s column follows.

      http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003925602

    • Idiocracy08

      Here’s more on some “anti-semite” Jews.
      http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

  • James

    “Disproportionate blame”? Really? In the US, I see that it is universally reported that Hamas started this conflict. I also see the bias in overplaying the attacks on Israel and the utter lack of reporting on how Palestinians are treated by Israeli laws. There isn’t an anti-Israel bias in the US media. Quite the contrary, you’re called an anti-Semite if you criticize Israel in the US.

    If you’re talking about foreign media in Europe and elsewhere, then I mostly agree.

    • bart

      Hamas may be held to blame, but the Palestinian people are largely not. They are considered victims of many players. Jews, on the other hand, are considered blameworthy whether Israeli or US. Lots of folks carefully separate perpetrators when considering the Palestinian / Hamas / muslim side of this issue but continue to lump all Jews together.

      • Barium

        No, actually, many are taking pains to seperate the Israeli people, the Jewish people, from the neocons, both the American, and the Israeli.

        (The same is true for us, as Americans, right?)

        This is the fear, the last thing anyone wants is a rise of anti semitism, if it’s horrific to murder innocent Palestinians, the same is true for the Israelis, ANY group of peoples.

        Oragnizations such as Americans for Peace Now, some of the Jewish groups, and writers in England, around the world, are appalled by what is happening, understanding the stakes, thinking Israel hijacked by the neocon line of thought.

        They’re supported, they’re doing the right thing, benefitting the ME, America, the world.

        But we don’t see that, we only see, and read, the neocon line.

        They sound just like Cheney.

      • ces

        I don’t think that’s the case. It’s not my view, anyway.

        I certainly don’t think that every Israeli (living there or not) wants every single Palestinian or Gaza Strip resident wiped off the map. Hell, the US media gladly portray the Israeli people as steadfast, strong people against such “terrorism.” In fact, if anybody demonstrats in GS, it’s assumed they are for terrorism. (yes, some/most do, but all???) While Israelis are our brothers and sisters…

        Just like in any society, including ours, there are the vocal minority that make the rest look really bad.

        People voted in Hamas, but under what conditions and by what margins? We voted in W, but by what methods and by what margins? I SURE AS HELL don’t want to be judged by the Iraqis still alive for things that W and the neocon-enterprise pushed for.

        You go to many protestant churches today and you’ll hear words against the Muslims. No fact, just fear. I have lived among Muslims and have my opinions…but I still wouldn’t want them dead. I’m not going to judge the two brothers that moved in next to my parents and in every way, acted like any normal US person. I would refuse to judge them because Saddam or Ahmadinejad or Hamas said some crap.

        But yeah, anybody who says, “go back to the oven” deserves to face their own enlightenment in a most creative way. Same goes for those who say Gaza should be pushed into the sea, or Blacks pushed to cotton fields, or Mexicans should all be deported.

        I think maybe it’s the fears of many Jews that if they seen to be divided in any way, religious/social/political/bully-vs-victim, that somehow the Holocaust will happen again. So they want to stay together even if that means they get lumped together? Just a poorly-formed thought, so take it with salt, but perhaps it’s worth considering. And the same notion applies to racial groups in the US…defending a person on trial due to their skin color instead of the facts. Hell, same goes for who they vote for…

  • mountainaires

    “The sooner we redefine what it means to be ‘pro-Israel,’ the better for us and the better for Israel. Needless to say, it would be much better for the Palestinians too…”

    AMERICAN Jews are divided over the Israeli military offensive against Hamas in the Gaza Strip, which is being vigorously denounced by an increasingly active progressive Jewish movement.

    The war has sown divisions among Jews here, according to Ori Nir, spokesman for the US branch of the Israeli pacifist movement “Peace Now,” long overshadowed by the America-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

    “Many American Jews view this as a legitimate war,” Nir said.

    “There are however people who are very uncomfortable with the way in which it was carried out and with the extend to which diplomatic means were not exhausted … to prevent this war,” he added.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24901716-2703,00.html

    “It is a great mystery that though the human heart longs for Truth, in which alone it finds liberation and delight, the first reaction of human beings to Truth is one of hostility and fear.” Anthony de Mello

  • Sassy

    I resent all the labels that are bandied about.
    I do not support the actions of the state of Israel. That does not in any way imply a hatred of Jews!
    I do not believe that the Palestinians are vermin to be eradicated. That does not make me a terrorist sympathizer!
    I’m also not a racist!

    • Idiocracy08

      Well said!

    • http://budwhite.wordpress.com/ Bud White

      I do not believe that the Palestinians are vermin to be eradicated

      It’s this kind of talk — the appropriating of anti-Semitic rhetoric — which many of us find offensive. No one is trying to “eradicate” Palestinians. Indeed, Israel recognizes Palestinians’ right to a nation, but Hamas does not recognize Israel. And Israel is responding to terrorism; that’s all that’s going on here.

      • Barium

        No one is trying to “eradicate” Palestinians

        .

        At this point, though, the reality is saying something different.

        They cannot leave, they have no food, and they are caged.

        And Israel is shooting at them, BOMBING them, not allowing aid.

        According to Pat Lang, he saw Palestinians, innocent Palestinians used as a type of shooting gallery for the IDF.

        Something is wrong.

        (BTW, I also think the Palestinians are victims of the terrorist groups, too, offered up to make Israel look horrific — too bad Israel takes the bait).

      • Idiocracy08

        “Bud”, can you honsetly answer these:

        Do you think Israel wants peace with Palestinians, or do you think they want them out?

        What would the result be if they had peace and agreed to the 2 state solution?

        Wouldn’t the Israeli’s be worried that with a 2 state solution, there would be a majority of Arabs represented, and that wouldn’t bode well for the Israeli’s in elections?

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/21/israel1

  • mountainaires

    Medusa, I’ve tried to reply to your offensive claim that I am “anti-semitic,” and it hasn’t appeared in reply form, so I’ll reply again here:

    Yet, I have done nothing but posted articles from Ilan Pappe, Amira Hass, Dr. Sara Roy, Avi Shlaim, Gideon Levy and Ran HaCohen–all Jews, all Israelis with a lifetime of work, study, and living in the Palestinian Territories, documenting the atrocities committed by the Israelis against Palestinians.

    Both Ilan Pappe and Avi Shlaim have accessed the most recent intelligence documents de-classified from 1948 onward, to write their books, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, and The Iron Wall, both of which I have read, as well as books by Amira Haas and Sara Roy, documenting the facts about Gaza and the West Bank, both of whom have lived among the Palestinians–as Jews–for years.

    So, basically, you have called these Jews “anti-semitic.” It’s breathtaking; it’s ugly; and it’s offensive in the extreme. You only show your own bigotry and racism by doing it.

    I’m neither anti-semitic for posting their own words; nor am I racist for not voting for Barack Obama.

    Instead of revealing your own “earth-worm” level of intellect by slinging ugly epithets, you would do far better to read a few books. You clearly need to do so, because people like you are the very WORST thing for Israel.

    • http://medusa2.wordpress.com medusa

      Mountainaire,
      Happily your opinion of me (and of Isreal) acccounts for nothing.

      You are clearly smitten by your own brain farts.

      As my old friend Working Class Artist used to write:

      Now waddle back to Gaza.

      • Barium

        You look kind of dumb, medusa.

        Dumb is leathal when one is at war, but the, the war isn’t real, right?

        Ask Olhmert, he knows.

        (ROTFLMAO)

        And your insults show a lack of wit.

        • Idiocracy08

          And obviously mountainaires hit a nerve…there was no response whatsoever to calling the Jews anti-Semite.

          • Strawberrybitch

            Well, that and the moment someone has to attack other debaters personally rather than refute the argument with facts shows that Moutainaires won the debate. If Mudusa were smart, she’d stop acting like a petulant child and try and convince us to change our minds with facts rather than using terms like “FARTS” and calling us stupid, racist, uneducated, blah, blah, blah. It does amaze me though that some people can’t separate the behavior of a person from the person. To use a rather simplistic analogy, when my kid screws up, I don’t say my kid is bad, but rather what he did was bad. That’s how I feel about what Israel is doing now. They have the right to defend themselves, but the way they are going about it is wrong morally and startegically. This will weaken them and their standing in the world as well as continue the suffering of innocent women and children.

            • Dawnelle

              Miss Berry of the Straw it’s a blessing to read you this day!

              I totally agree with you My Dear! Thanks for saying it for me.

              Peace

              • Barium

                I think Mountainaires has been very reasoned in her responses, this kind of dialouge needed to help understand and explore BOTH sides of the issue.

                As I mentioned in RRRA’s thread, we never get to hear any other side but that of the neocon Israeli (much like the neocon American) — we dont even get to hear from the MODERATE Israelis.

                Why?

                In part, I am better informed because of the stand of some of the American Jews, those fighting the neocon Israelis.

                I admire them.

            • Idiocracy08

              My grandma always says “Don’t hate the person, hate what they do”.

              Sweetest person ever…(I don’t want to get into a “grandma” wars here….mine would win!) :)

      • Mary

        Medusa appears to be a poster disinterested in civility or rational discussion.

        Quite possibly, he/she is 15 years old. Certainly seems like it.

        I suggest ignoring, given that his/her’s rhetoric is that of an unschooled amateur.

    • http://medusa2.wordpress.com medusa

      Hamas troll^^^^

    • MG

      Mountainaires, I see by your understanding the Palestians are innocent and are never at fault.
      So the bombing of Israel civilians is prefectly legitamate. Rover…Rover send a suicide bomber over… and if you respond then we cry foul.
      In the ’70′s a group of Puerto Rican went to Israel for the Holy Week worship… can you imagine that… what a delight to see the land of Jesus etc.. And can you believe that, a Bunch of Islanders who never travel that far what a treat…
      When they arrived at the airport and were in the terminal, a bunch of Palestinian men open fire with machine guns and threw granandes!!!!!! They showed no mercy.. they kept on firing even those who were injured.
      You want to know about carnege, blood, screams of innocent people!!! I boil with anger as I type this!!! Yup, blame the Jews… some how they push the palestians to take revenge upon some Islanders from clear across the world.
      I was a teen, and I remember the caskets arriving from Israel and the families crying over their loss.
      Did I hear we are sorry from the Palestinians NO!!! The Israelis did.
      So, the palestian get a free pass(you know when they use Human shields…Kill innocent people all for what!!!)
      Israel must defender herself against those who wish to destroy her.

  • Patrick Walker

    Racism, like religion and marketing, are used to substitute emotion for reason in order to further the interests of an elite.

  • mountainaires

    Hasbara spam alert

    by Richard Silverstein

    With Israel’s foreign ministry organising volunteers to flood news websites with pro-Israeli comments, Propaganda 2.0 is here

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media

    “The last refuge…. When all else fails, point to a few examples of outrageous anti-Semitism, generalize them, suggesting that that is what motivates critics. It stings, and may be over-used, but it can silence or put critics on the defensive.” — James Zogby

    • ritamary

      Thank you for this information. People on this site should be aware that Israel organizes online propaganda campaigns just like Obama did. Israel has much more practice at it than the Obama campaign did.

      Accusations of anti-Semitism on this site are becoming as common as accusations of racism were a few months ago.

      Thank you to Larry and Susan for providing this forum for discussion.

      • Mary

        Indeed they do, including individual posters promoting the Israeli propaganda.

        Easy to spot them.

  • Fran

    I don’t see anyone endorsing hateful slogans. I do see people endorsing the killing of children, saying that maybe it is not nice, but it is necessary; it is unavoidable – it is the fault of Hamas.

    It sounds like the author is saying that hateful shouts from some people means the whole world is antisemitic. She says, why is it OK to hate Jews? Who said it was OK?

    Actually, a lot of people think that the U.S. has committed genocide in Iraq. What good is it to compare atrocities? Which is worse? Who is the greater victim, etc. It’s all wrong!

    • Idiocracy08

      Thank you.

      • Dawnelle

        another ditto from moi!

    • ritamary

      This is so true. Two wrongs don’t make a right, as my mother always told me.

  • ford

    Arafat is laughing he A– off right now. This has turned out so much better than he could have hoped for, for all the posters here who now support Arafat’s views.
    Wake up people, BDS is a treatable disease.

    • Barium

      No one supports Arafat.

      And btw, it was Israel who brought this upon themselves, crating Gaza as they did, their violence, unthinking.

      The propaganda is starting to stink, really old, losing efficacy..

      Maybe they need a fresh approach?

      • Idiocracy08

        Ya think?

    • Mary

      Good grief, ford.

      You DO realize that Hamas was first supported by ISRAEL to undermine Arafat and the PLO, right?

      Stunning ignorance on your part.

  • http://Godhelpusall lee M

    Hamas started this by breaking the truce. Israel has a right to defend herself. Having said this, don’t you think it is time to call out the leaders of all the Arab nations who are arming the Hamas, and shame them (if they have any shame) into getting involved diplomatically in this chaos?

    If all the resources and energy they put into aiding terrorism were put into building decent homes for the Palestinians, and helping them start businesses that would support the citizens of the area, perhaps the people could sustain a decent lifestyle that would discourage their dependence on Hamas.

    I don’t mean giving the money to Hamas, I mean sending their own representatives into the area to personally manage the aiding of the citizenry. If the money is given to Hamas it would not benefit the Palestinian people. It would go to buy more arms to continue the fight.

    If none of the Arab neighbors would smuggle arms and ammunition to the Hamas organization,they would have to stop fighting when their present supply ran out.

    Then Israel would not have to wage war to protect its people from the constant barrage of rockets being sent their way from Gaza. Perhaps then, with diplomatic pressure on Hamas from the other Arab nations, and Western pressure on Israel, the fighting might stop. Otherwise this travesty is never going to end. Just a cease fire isn’t going to do it.

    It is the demonic hatred on both sides that keeps this turmoil going, and outside influences keep the flame burning to suit their own agendas. This can’t go on. The result will be Armageddon for sure.

    • Mary

      Nope.

      Israel broke the truce by shooting 6 Palestinians on a Gaza beach on November 6th.

      Hamas had kept the truce until then, with no rockets flying at all.

  • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

    This war is a religious war — of the worst kind. It has been going on for thousands of years. Both sides want the other to be gone.

    There is a THIRD religious group involved — and they want to see blood flowing in the Middle East. The hard core religious right, the evangelicals preach about the second coming of Christ — and their warped reading of the bible tells them that Armageddon must happen before Christ can return.

    I know how these right wing evangelicals believe this with all their hearts — I grew up listening to their sermons (little kids have NO choice in religion — many of us do walk away from our Parent’s nutty choices). WHENEVER there was a major conflict in the Middle east — the ministers would preach up a storm — get ready Christ WILL be returning. Then the fighting would stop — and there would be depression in the congregation.

    The view of many Christians believers is that the Jews ARE God’s chosen people and that they can do no wrong. That is the Jews are God’s chosen UNTIL at some point the Jews must choose Christ and if they do not convert — they they will die along with all the others who have rejected Christ (or the version of Christ taught by certain sects of Evangelical Christians.)

    I look at the Middle East as having a major problem with resources — too many people and not enough land to support two robust populations. This area has a major water shortage — so this war is also about water resources.

    This war will go on and the killing on both sides will continue — I don’t see any outside power being able to stop the violence.

    The problem is that this violence will not stay in the Middle East — innocent people are being targeted because — they are easily identified.

    The thing about many humans is that they can be made to function on emotions (primitive emotions) which by-pass the human fore brain. Humans can be turned into a mob — and thus human emotions can be used to make the mob harm other humans. We’ve seen this happen before — Japanese were rounded up in America. Indians were slaughtered and those that survived were forced to live on Reservations.

    Stereotyping the other group using simplistic emotional loaded phrases — THEY are all bad — the other ones are GOOD. This is what mobs do.

    Selecting Jews and the symbols of the Jewish religion is so easy — NO thinking involved. It is so PRIMITIVE. This sort of mob thinking, mob behavior is well de-Evolutionary.

    For me the scary part is remembering the sermons of the ministers — the joy in their voice that their Christ was returning — BUT a whole lot of people would have to die first. I could understand this — but the adults didn’t seem to comprehend the cause and effect of their wish for the second coming of Christ.

  • mountainaires

    Hill of Shame where Gaza bombing is spectator sport:

    A beauty spot has turned into a vantage point for viewing of Israel’s bombardment of the Gaza Strip

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5505390.ece

  • Matt

    I found this on another blog, very funny.

    The Little Dickie Silverstein Marching Song

    I am a little kapo,
    It makes my mommy mad,
    Cause when I am a kapo,
    Those Zionists get sad!

    I celebrate the jihad,
    and terror all the while,
    I fill my blog and web page,
    With loud salutes of Sieg Heil!

    I want to see them Zraelis,
    All dumped out in the sea,
    My swastika a waving,
    Cause everything’s bout me.