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Which Countries Will Topple? Place Your Bets Right Here!

Placed your bets below in the comments. It depends on who you read. The U.S. military’s — yes, the U.S. military — Joint Operating Environment (JOE 2008) report puts both Mexico and Pakistan at high risk for collapse, Mexico to its criminals and drug cartels and Pakistan to its extremists. (Then there’s Mexico’s predatory credit card lending racket.)

Then U.S. News & World Report offers up the odds on the U.S. of A. going belly up, going on the rocks, going to ruin, being taken to the cleaners, losing one’s shirt, and not least, going to pot (which might be a new source of revenue, if we just look the other way at the number of pot-growing operations ongoing in our national parks, yes, our national parks — because, thanks to cut-backs, we have insufficient park rangers to guard and protect our nation’s parks):

… According to Russian foreign policy expert Igor Panarin, it’s America that is supposed to collapse. And when that happens, according to a Wall Street Journal interview with Panarin, "Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence." Confusing. But it looks like Canada will be the big winner in all this. Then again, maybe not.

And who is this Igor Panarin, you ask? He’s the Russian who predicts the “End of the US by 2010″:

The world is abuzz with Russian professor Igor Panarin’s prediction that the US would end in 2010, even though its something that he has been saying for the past 10 years or more.

Igor PanarinWhile most turned a deaf ear to his arguments for the better part of the decade that he’s been repeating his warning, Panarin says that an economic and moral collapse would trigger a civil war within the US and would result in its breakup. Now, with the media having picked up on his views, he has a much wider audience for his theory.

The 50-year old former KGB analyst is dean of the Russian foreign ministry’s academy for future diplomats, and is well connected across the Kremlin, besides being a lecturer to students, author, and an “expert” on US-Russian relations.

The Wall Street Journal carried a report that said Panarin’s theory fits well with the Kremlin’s narrative about Russia returning to its “rightful place” on the world stage after its own weak period during the 1990s, during which similar theories of it breaking up into separate territories were abound.

“There’s a 55: 45 per cent chance right now that disintegration will occur,” he was quoted as saying.

“One could rejoice in that process, but if we’re talking reasonably, it’s not the best scenario – for Russia.”

Panarin says that though Russia would become more powerful in the global arena, its dollar and US trade-dependent economy would suffer. He says that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation would trigger a civil war by around next fall, and that the dollar would collapse.

In an end-November interview to the respected daily Izvestia, Panarin was quoted as saying that the dollar was not “secured by anything”. He said foreign debt of the US has grown “like an avalanche, even though in the early 1980s there was no debt”. Panarin said that around 1998, when he made his first prediction, US debt exceeded $2 trillion, and is presently over $11 trillion. “This is a pyramid that can only collapse”, he was reported as saying.

Panarin initially made his prediction at an international conference around a decade ago, when the US economy appeared strong. However, the way 2008 has played out, the retrospective view of the year gone by seems to support his theory.

In September 1998, at a conference on information warfare held at Linz, Austria, Panarin talked about the use of data to edge out a rival, and more importantly, presented his theory to 400 fellow delegates. “When I pushed the button on my computer and the map of the United States disintegrated, hundreds of people cried out in surprise,” he remembers. He says most in the audience were sceptical. “They didn’t believe me,” The Wall Street Journal quoted him as saying.

Panarin, according to paper, based his theory on classified data supplied to him by Federal Agency of Government Communications and Information (FAPSI) analysts. In his theory, he says that economic, financial and demographic trends will create a political and social crisis in the US, and when push comes to shove, the wealthier states would withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union.

Economic collapse
Thereafter, a social unrest would precede a civil war, that would cause the US to split along ethnic lines, with foreign powers moving in. … [There's much more at domain-b.com.]

So maybe my dream of being invaded by Canada may come true in my lifetime! (If you’ve ever spent time in Canada, as I have, you quickly realize that the people up there are just plain nicer than we are. They also take life a bit slower than we do — they breathe a little — and they’re more even-handed and humane in social and medical services.

As an example of them living life more slowly, I had the experience, a few years ago on vacation with relatives, of having to hunt for hours for an open restaurant on Christmas Day. Everybody closes up on Christmas Day to stay at home with their families! The newspapers don’t even print an issue that day! Yes, the Canadian stores have sales after Christmas, just like in the U.S., but they don’t advertise on Christmas Day because there are no newspapers printed — they print their ads the morning after Christmas.

Anyway, I digress. Who do YOU think is going to collapse?

  • robert

    To the chagrin of prognosticators and doomsayers worldwide, America will reinvent itself. Modern technological miracles such as spaceflight, the Internet and the telephone–all born in America–will pale in comparison to the transformation of an America that will be stronger, more self-reliant and that will turn to an astonished world and say, suck this!

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhXA3fXpCFk Woman Voter

      Bob Herbert and Keith Olberman Don’t Know Dick
      http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/06/bob-herbert-and-keith-olberman-dont-know-dick/
      ……..
      A past post for those that see ‘Dicks’ or that think they need to include them at the end of their posts with a crude message.

    • Patrick Walker

      They may have all been “born” in the US, but largely by foreigners.

      They say that eight men were responsible for getting the US to the moon. Three were Canadian, one was British and another was a former Nazi. This has been a feature of the US for a VERY long time. Just look at almost anything electrical. It was the result of a single Serbian immigrant. The telephone was invented by a Scot. The rifle that won the US War of Independence was invented by a Brit. You can go on and on.

      The US technological lead has always been about poaching the best and brightest of other nations, not from anything substantive in their society. This is true of all Western nations and not just an exclusively American-only problem. The US just seems to have this the worst.

      Look at a LOT of the technological firms or the ranks of graduate students at universities. Dominated by foreigners. Little Timmy American wants to grow up and be a rap star or basketball player and I largely fault the idea that education has become an obscenely expensive private commodity (this is happening in Canada too). Unlike the early post-War years with the GI Bill, which essentially provided a form of publicly-paid higher education, today the commoner just doesn’t have ready access. It’s somewhat understandably why the young are more reacting this way in that it could be a reaction to how some people are overpaid and a lot of people are underpaid. Young kids have traditionally always started to dream of being an “astronaut” or “scientist” but as they get older I’m sure many observe how undervalued actual work is. Why “invest” in education when you can make more by doing trivial things like playing professional football or strut around a stage half-naked and lip-synching some crappy song someone else actually wrote?

      I don’t want to sound conspiratorial, but just like the late medieval church stopped being science’s biggest benefactor to become it’s chief detractor, the modern corporate world is turning against science in a similar way. Technological advancements have the potential of undermining existing monopolies and their control, which is why development is becoming increasingly regimented, constrained by the demands of upper management who will suppress technology that threatens their core products (think GM EV1). Science has to a degree always been about profit for thousands of years but today it’s domination is virtually complete.

      Anyways, that’s my rant for the day.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhXA3fXpCFk Woman Voter

    `There will be civil war in US in 2009`
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVkjCQCTOEI

    Russia Today interviews Igor Panarin, a professor at the Diplomatic Academy of the Russian foreign affairs ministry, who believes the economic crisis in the US has confirmed his long-held belief that the country is heading for extinction in its present form.
    ………….
    Can you add the video of Igor Panarin at the Austalian conference. In my opinion on military is off target on Mexico and it is some of the the other Southern countries that are at risk, they have ethnic and religious conflict that have para-military factions. No para-military factions exist in Mexico with the exception of Comandante Marcos (son of wealthy Mexicans leading an opposition in most Sothern Mexico.

    Entevista Sub Comandante Marcos
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyvKZOUf4RU

    • elise

      People in third world countries are more likely to be able to adapt to changing circumstances. They don’t require as much pampering. Some of Mexico’s problems and ours with Mexico could be solved by the legalization of drugs. There will be a huge, untapped consumer group if the US economy fails and just think how much in taxes they could collect. A brand new source of revenue, creation of new jobs on pot farms, fewer prisons to support and a very laid back population. Otherwise, my bet’s on the USA.

      • tek

        Legalization of drugs is not the answer. Americans getting off dangerous illegal drugs is the answer. You can’t solve a problem by giving in to it. I don’t why grown adults can’t figure that out. The people who rationalize taking these substances are people who’s brains are fried from taking them. Look at all the countries where drugs are legal or the officials just look the other way. Those countries are a mess. But that’s the solution of Obama people–legalize every corrupt practice the far left enjoys and let more unskilled, uneducated, criminal people into the U. S.

        • Patrick Walker

          Messed up countries like … the Netherlands?

          Decriminalization or actual legalization of drugs won’t really help Mexico. The drug cartels are powerful and simply adapt to something else. They have immense power in the country, and because of lax US laws regarding weapons, these cartels are often better armed than the Mexican military. I nearly freaked out once when Lou Dobbs actually had a report on this a year or so ago.

          • DawnelleTIREDofSPIN

            I lived in Amsterdam one summer. It’s a beautiful City and the people were charming!

        • NW Country

          Like the US is not messed up. Look what this post is about.

        • elise

          tek, this was a joke…sort of. BTW I’m not a supporter of Obama which you should know by now if you have ever read my comments. The addiction problems exist in the US, not Mexico. That’s why they smuggle the drugs.

        • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

          I have a friend who is addicted to pot – she’s been smoking it since the age of 12 and she’s a mess because of it. And she’s in complete and total denial due to a lot of the pro-hemp propaganda out there.

          I’m not saying don’t legalize it, but these ridiculous claims that it’s safe are far off the mark.

          • elise

            Hillary or, I had a nephew who began drinking at age 12. He’s dead now. My sister was married to an abusive alcoholic who died from cirrhosis of the liver. There is nothing more disgusting than a drunk puking his/her guts out. Addiction to alcohol and prescription pain killers is a bigger problem in American than pot. I had a friend who, when he was dying from AIDS, was denied access to pot and given marinol instead. The marinol didn’t increase his appitite, the pot did. When my brother was ill, a friend who had never been in trouble with the law, was arrested trying to buy pot for him because it was the only thing which increased his appitite. They had no problem giving him morhpine, to which he was addicted when he died, but no way were they going to allow him to smoke a joint.

            • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

              “Addiction to alcohol and prescription pain killers is a bigger problem in American than pot.”

              Yeah, and, if you legalize pot, then pot may become a much bigger problem.

              BTW I know someone who got COPD lung disease from pot – it can kill you too.

    • tek

      No para-military faction? What do you call the Mexican Mafia and the drug cartels?

    • BernieO

      Russia is in worse shape than we are now that the price of oil has tanked. Their stock market was already collapsing because foreign investment dried up after the dust-up with Georgia. Now that oil is way down, they are in bigger trouble than Europe or the US. After several years of unprecedented prosperity they are in big trouble and Putin’s popularity it at risk, since it rested on the good economy. That may be the reason he shut off gas to the Ukraine. First, Russia really does need the money but also it plays well at home when Russia asserts herself. Since Putin’s popularity is threatened I think he may stir up more trouble in the months to come. This is potentially a very dangerous situation, as is the situation in Mexico.

      I read somewhere that Obama may propose having referenda in the East European countries where we are placing “anti-missile” defenses – which don’t work well but can be easily converted to offensive sites. (Gee I wonder why Russia objects.) If people vote at least some countries will likely reject the sites giving Obama a way to defuse the tension without looking soft on Russia. I would like to see Larry’s take on this.

      Despite the fact that we caused the world-wide economic meltdown, foreigners are still putting their money in US treasuries because it is deemed the safest bet. The likelihood of an American collapse is extremely small. Years of stagnation on the other hand…..

      • Patrick Walker

        The Russian stock markets fell for the same reason why other markets fell.

        Because large US firms were dumping foreign assets to alleviate leveraging problems back in the US. There was a mad selloff and this dropped prices through the floor.

        If there ever was a reason to regulate foreign ownership, we’ve been given many painful examples.

        • BernieO

          Friends who live in the Czech Republic and know about the economy say that Europeans dumped investments in Russia because the action – or overreaction – in Georgia was disturbing. It wasn’t just Americans and it happened a few months before it hit the fan here.

          • Patrick Walker

            There may have been some, but it was the results of hedge funds trying to deleverage themselves as the financial slide of various banks was going down.

            Western countries really don’t divest themselves over politics or war unless forced too by government action.

            IBM and GM gleefully continued to trade with Nazi Germany after Pearl Harbour. Corporate structures have no morality and virtually no ethics. For them to “dump” assets over Russia’s LEGITIMATE response to Georgian activities doesn’t jive with corporate history.

            Hedge funds dumping assets over alleged Russian human rights violations? Never.

  • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

    I am definitely concerned Obama will bankrupt America and I feel it is very possible for the whole American house of cards to implode. I am honestly glad I do not have young children because I’d be freaking out right now if I did.

    • pieces of you

      I think the economy already imploded under Bush.

      And in all honesty, if they can’t protect young children, they can’t protect us, or themselves, either.

      The main thing I’m getting with a lot of Obama’s picks, (as with Cheney’s too) is they’re dumb, really unqualified.

      They’re the kids of people who were prominent in the 60′s, or earlier, they went to Ivy League schools on their parents connections (I mean, they probably had the test scores, but no real unique skill, or talent worthy of Harvard before it became a diploma mill of sorts), they got their jobs based on Dad’s connections, and they promptly failed, both themselves, and the the country.

      It’s no surprise a guy like Geithner is the way he is, it’s no surprise he seems to be nothing more than another untalented, overblown mediocrity, in way over his head, look what happened to Wall Street on his watch — and this is OK?

      But as long as OTHER people see it, they can correct it, it’s when it goes undiagnosed that we run into problems.

      • DawnelleTIREDofSPIN

        I was just going to say this,

        I think the economy already imploded under Bush.

        I mean I don’t like Odrama at all but he’s not in office yet and the economy has been busting at the seems since W decided to drag this conflict in Iraq out past the point of no return.

        took his eye off the ball and is now trying to find it to pass it off to bambi’s cabal (good luck with that)

        maybe they figure they can take it from the dumpster into the land fill in 4 short years?

        • DawnelleTIREDofSPIN

          typo

          busting at the seams

          lol

          I’m no seamstress

  • Gary McGowan

    I just watched an excellent video report about Mexico’s problems, their causes and solutions yesterday.

    (It starts intentionally with dark screen and 30 seconds of Spanish, don’t worry, after that you’re O.K.) It has Spanish (Mexicans speaking) but with good subtitles, and 60-75% of it is English.

    It reports on projects planned in the 60s that would still be viable to do now (could have been finished 20 years ago!)

    Really an excellent and informative report – with solutions! NAWAPA-PLHINO: The Future of the Americas

    http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2009/01/14/
    lpactv-feature-nawapa-plhino-future-americas.html

    http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2009/01/14/lpactv-feature-nawapa-plhino-future-americas.html

    Countries don’t have to fail now. Or we all do.

    • BernieO

      Lyndon LaRouche? Seriously?

      • Gary McGowan

        Try watching the video. Mature discussion of its contents is certainly welcome.

    • stodgie

      i had the larouche people calling me constantly. they are nuts!

      • Gary McGowan

        That’s interesting, but Mexico, at our border, our nation, and many nations in the world are in a terrible situation. I think the video I’m recommending is of great value. I’m asking people to PLEASE have a look.

        • rayve

          I will take a look. The site can’t possibly be any worse than our MSM when it comes to lack of credibility, and besides, I’ve found nuggets of valuable information in the least likely of places.

  • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

    The US and the world has some difficult years ahead.

    Will the US disintegrate? Right now I’d say unlikely — however, if there were a major crisis — or SEVERAL happening within a short period — then a major disintegration could occur.

    Someone wrote that people (or the Government) doesn’t have people who can handle a crisis — let alone a series of crisis.

    Earthquake — All along the west coast we are in the ring of fire and earthquake zone. WA state has several volcanoes. Yellowstone is a volcano zone as well.

    Tsunami — west coast could be hit again — and there is the remote possibility of tsunami/tidal wave hitting the east coast. The scientist who is predicting this has been yelling wolf – so I don’t know how believable he is or if his “scientific” methodology is sound.

    Hurricane — been there and done that — but with global warming the hurricanes are supposed to be stronger and more frequent. Look at the water temp in the areas that spawn hurricanes.

    Epidemic — lots of predictions — bird flu may or may not mutate enough to have a huge impact on the human population.

    Man made (and I do mean male-male type creatures) — this would be a massive economic melt down — worse than THE Depression. We now have a made man — chief of the ponzi schemes — someone called him the Ponzi President to be. This guy is one of the biggest crooks — we know very little about him, because he is so secretive and has locked up his past — except for the two books of fiction that some ghost author wrote for him.

    First bush bankrupted America with his desire to be a war prez — and he appointed a whole lot of really inadequate people to run the Government. Now we have Bush III — who knows nada about the economy — but he is going to put a bunch of the guys from the Chicago School of Economic (academic types) to “fix” the economy.

    If Natural disasters happen in a series — bringing the nation to a standstill — along with a financial disaster — I can see individual states going their own way. The relationship between the states and the Federal Government could change.

    Let’s add a Constitutional Convention to the mix — where the rules can literally be rewritten.

    All of the crisis together with some angry states rights folks — sh*t is going to hit the fan.

    The more I think about this — it could happen.

    Remember the old domino effect theory — if one country went Communist — then others would follow until the whole world was Communist?? Make that a financial domino effect — Mexico falls, the US falls and becomes unstable. BUT each state is supposed to have a National Guard.

    • BernieO

      Forget natural disasters, how about a series of terrorist attacks? Even cyber attack (read Richard Clark’s “Breakpoint”)? If our economy had been in its current state at the time of 9-11, instead of being relatively healthy after the Clinton years, the loss of confidence and resulting meltdown would have been horrendous – and will be if anything comparable happens now.
      This morning Pat Buchanan said that the kind of attack that happened on 9-11 probably could not happen now, but a series of attacks around the country on targets like malls would be hard to stop.

  • Elliott

    Many of Panarin’s predictions remind me of economic deconstruction of the US written about by Jim Kunstler. He also sees a breakup along regional and economic lines with a dying suburbia and a return to regional economies because of the loss of large scale fossil fuel transportation. Their views are different but there are many parallels.

    • stodgie

      bernie i challenge you to write something good about america. wallowing in this damn the usa is getting to be too much for me. that’s all i see.

  • C.S.

    Who would have thought it would take a Russian professor to tell us we are in deep, deep trouble. I’m sure we have a whole think tank somewhere churning out alternate scenarios on what happens if….

    Our government has also been churning out cheery alternate realities for us citizens since the days of Ronald Reagan and many of us bought into the big lie. We jumped from individual prosperity to the financial burden of having to pay for the S&L crisis which our economy has never recovered from to the huge economic drain of the Bush negligence. And we are about to witness one of the most extravagant politicians of our lifetime celebrating himself with one big expensive party although 1 in 10 home owners are in danger of being homeless and we are still waging endless war on two major fronts.

    It doesn’t take a psychic to “see” where we are headed if we don’t stop selecting narcissistic men who prefer gazing at their reflection than electing great thinkers. Professor Panarin just verbalized what most of We Americans have been fearing for a decade now, that our country is in free fall and the only “hope” to prevent it is too preoccupied with spending money he did not earn on himself.

  • Linda C.

    It took a very long time for Rome to Fall. For The US to “break up”, the central government would need to instantly collapse into nothingness. Even if this did happen, it would take time for that actual ‘nothingness” to become a reality. This country has a collective identity. It will not be so easily tossed in our psyche.

    The collapse of Mexico could have tremendous problems felt more instantaneously than the collapse of Pakistan. There would be a massive influx into this country as total lawlessness (even more so than what they already have now) would make living in Mexico impossible for most of its citizens. I could see Mexico breaking up before the US. The regional difference are more pronounced, there is more corruption, and the differences between rich and poor are staggering.

    We would be called upon to fix Mexico probably with little help from other countries. Pakistan might be viewed as an “international problem”, especially since they have nuclear weapons. Mexico will be viewed as the US red-headed step child.

  • stodgie

    let ask a question, just how does this constant mantra of the end of the world everyday from the media and now here help????????????????????? i am frankly frigging sick of it. color me tired of this. let’s talk about getting better instead of wallowing in it.

  • oowawa

    Wow–this Panarin is my kind of prophet–none of this wimpy stuff about celebrities dumping celebrities and running off with other celebrities–this is real heavy duty Revelation-style material, and Collapse Is Imminent! This is all so Russian, and as much fun as reading Pravda online.

    Unfortunately, since we have flown off to Never Never Land with Precious, it doesn’t seem quite as Tin-Hat Looney as it did two years ago.

    • DawnelleTIREDofSPIN

      Word on THAT

      gtg

      peace to all

  • rightagain

    The legalization of marijuana is critical to perserving the integrity of Mexico due to the tremendous outflow of money on law enforcement. Its draining the US resources as well. In the next 10 to 15 years we must have legalized pot. It should never have been criminalized in the first place. Learn about Anslinger, the Bureau of Narcotics and the history of prohibition. Here’s to the future. “Have a hit…” Sweet.

    • Cheech, or maybe Chong

      Decriminalization is probably the only logical course, for a number of very good reasons:

      Millions of otherwise-law-abiding adult Americans use marijuana despite its illegal status. Most use it responsibly. The reason that the extent of responsible use is largely hidden is because of its illegal status. The only highly visible users are the small minority who behave irresponsibly. Generally these are the same people who behave irresponsibly in many other areas of their lives. Marijuana isn’t really at the root of their problem. The problem lies in those people themselves.

      Marijuana does minimal harm to the average responsible user. The incident of marijuana-related health problems doesn’t even come close to the incident of problems directly related to tobacco or alcohol. As a matter of fact, the misuse of common aspirin is responsible for more ER visits each and every year. Propaganda notwithstanding, annual mortality directly or indirectly related to marijuana use is virtually nil.

      Criminal prosecution of marijuana users has cost taxpayers unnecessary billions. It has distorted our legal system. It has filled our courts and jails with non-violent offenders, making fewer public resources available to deal with criminals who really do represent a threat to social order.

      Marijuana is the biggest domestic agricultural cash crop in the United States. Bigger even than corn, wheat, or soybeans. Instead of squandering billions in public money on failed efforts at control, we could legalize it, control it, and tax it, just as with tobacco and alcohol. The cash flow would reverse. The U.S. government could be raking in billions in annual tax revenues. Instead, they’re pursuing a policy that turns domestic production into an illegal activity, while simultaneously subsidizing organized crime and growing narco-terrorism in Mexico.

      It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out we’ve got our head up our butts on this one. All it takes is a clear-headed analysis of the facts.

      • Cheech, or maybe Chong

        Getting back to the topic: Mexico is going to topple. See post above. By way of drug policy, the U.S. government is subsidizing the element that’s going to bring it down.