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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Spanning the Globe&#8230;.&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: &#8220;We&#8217;re Going to Have to Pay . . .&#8221; &#171; senseoncents.com</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1123921</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;We&#8217;re Going to Have to Pay . . .&#8221; &#171; senseoncents.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1123921</guid>
		<description>[...] week we &lt;a href=&#8221;http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/01/15/spanning-the-globe/&#8221;&gt;spanned the globe&lt;/a&gt; and saw that trade has slowed dramatically. We know of the massive deficit [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] week we &lt;a href=&#8221;http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/01/15/spanning-the-globe/&#8221;&gt;spanned the globe&lt;/a&gt; and saw that trade has slowed dramatically. We know of the massive deficit [...]</p>
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		<title>By: socalannie</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117314</link>
		<dc:creator>socalannie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 07:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117314</guid>
		<description>Excellent article Larry, thanks.  I also think fondly of growing up in the 60&#039;s &amp; 70&#039;s.  I worked in shipping in the 80&#039;s and have been to Singapore and Hong Kong.  Everything has changed.  I fear for my son&#039;s future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article Larry, thanks.  I also think fondly of growing up in the 60&#8242;s &amp; 70&#8242;s.  I worked in shipping in the 80&#8242;s and have been to Singapore and Hong Kong.  Everything has changed.  I fear for my son&#8217;s future.</p>
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		<title>By: Patience</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117292</link>
		<dc:creator>Patience</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 05:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117292</guid>
		<description>Well LD, if I recall correctly you began writing here to tell us that the financial model was broken.  Seems like more than that is broken and the pain will be felt universally, but perhaps justifiably so.  Which leads me to say that I like the nostalgic aspect of your essay and I like reading fiscalliberal&#039;s comment about playing cards with the grandchildren rather than going out and spending a lot of money.

Years ago I started commenting to my husband that I didn&#039;t think it was &lt;em&gt;sustainable&lt;/em&gt; to expect people to spend more and more, year after year, as if spending and debt were limitless.  Seemed irrational to me.  But that&#039;s how GROWTH is often defined, in a way.  So I&#039;m hoping this current crisis ultimately re-introduces sanity.  It&#039;ll be very painful for many of us until there&#039;s a recovery, but I hope some lessons are learned.

I enjoyed this past Christmas more than any in recent memory and it was because of the economic crisis.  Every year, I beg my family not to buy a lot of stuff.  Every year, I see a lot of crap in stores and wonder who would buy it.  Every year, there it is under the Christmas tree, all gift-wrapped thanks to my family.  But not so much this year!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well LD, if I recall correctly you began writing here to tell us that the financial model was broken.  Seems like more than that is broken and the pain will be felt universally, but perhaps justifiably so.  Which leads me to say that I like the nostalgic aspect of your essay and I like reading fiscalliberal&#8217;s comment about playing cards with the grandchildren rather than going out and spending a lot of money.</p>
<p>Years ago I started commenting to my husband that I didn&#8217;t think it was <em>sustainable</em> to expect people to spend more and more, year after year, as if spending and debt were limitless.  Seemed irrational to me.  But that&#8217;s how GROWTH is often defined, in a way.  So I&#8217;m hoping this current crisis ultimately re-introduces sanity.  It&#8217;ll be very painful for many of us until there&#8217;s a recovery, but I hope some lessons are learned.</p>
<p>I enjoyed this past Christmas more than any in recent memory and it was because of the economic crisis.  Every year, I beg my family not to buy a lot of stuff.  Every year, I see a lot of crap in stores and wonder who would buy it.  Every year, there it is under the Christmas tree, all gift-wrapped thanks to my family.  But not so much this year!</p>
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		<title>By: Hot Librarian</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117266</link>
		<dc:creator>Hot Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 03:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117266</guid>
		<description>I predict Ukraine will fall within 5 years. Maybe 2 countries East /west.

But the global economy would not be the reason , with the exception that no one can afford to prop it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I predict Ukraine will fall within 5 years. Maybe 2 countries East /west.</p>
<p>But the global economy would not be the reason , with the exception that no one can afford to prop it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Hot Librarian</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117261</link>
		<dc:creator>Hot Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 03:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117261</guid>
		<description>RW - Do you have the evidence of this? 

Why position yourself on one side when you cannot know?

Knowing the Ukraine economy it leans that they did not pay. Otherwise they would have international banking receipts at the ready.

It is no different from you arguing with your natural gas supplier. There is always a receipt. Gas flows are monitored for a simple reason -safety. 

however with a history like Chernobyl you can trust Ukraine. Surely! LOL..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RW &#8211; Do you have the evidence of this? </p>
<p>Why position yourself on one side when you cannot know?</p>
<p>Knowing the Ukraine economy it leans that they did not pay. Otherwise they would have international banking receipts at the ready.</p>
<p>It is no different from you arguing with your natural gas supplier. There is always a receipt. Gas flows are monitored for a simple reason -safety. </p>
<p>however with a history like Chernobyl you can trust Ukraine. Surely! LOL..</p>
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		<title>By: rw</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117244</link>
		<dc:creator>rw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 03:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117244</guid>
		<description>&quot;Ukraine says it has paid for gas used -Russia says it has not. The fact that Ukraine has stored many months supply puts suspicion on them . They do not have the economy to pay market rates &amp; get discounts fr the pipes Xing their borders.&quot;

Or they had prepared themselves for Russia&#039;s round two. nonetheless, to cut supply in the cold of winter leaving Central Europeans to suffer is brutal and leaves much to be desired of the current Russian model of doing business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ukraine says it has paid for gas used -Russia says it has not. The fact that Ukraine has stored many months supply puts suspicion on them . They do not have the economy to pay market rates &amp; get discounts fr the pipes Xing their borders.&#8221;</p>
<p>Or they had prepared themselves for Russia&#8217;s round two. nonetheless, to cut supply in the cold of winter leaving Central Europeans to suffer is brutal and leaves much to be desired of the current Russian model of doing business.</p>
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		<title>By: Hot Librarian</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117154</link>
		<dc:creator>Hot Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117154</guid>
		<description>There is NO GASOLINE embargo on Eastern Europe.

There is a dispute on Ukraine siphoning off NATURAL GAS  from the Euope bound pipeline.

Ukraine says it has paid for gas used -Russia says it has not. The fact that Ukraine has stored many months supply puts suspicion  on them . They do not have the economy to pay market rates &amp; get discounts fr the pipes Xing their borders.

You can not incite hatred against one country _in this case russia as usual - on false claims. 

To see the global impact of stupid greedy economics  you must not be blindsided by illogical hatred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is NO GASOLINE embargo on Eastern Europe.</p>
<p>There is a dispute on Ukraine siphoning off NATURAL GAS  from the Euope bound pipeline.</p>
<p>Ukraine says it has paid for gas used -Russia says it has not. The fact that Ukraine has stored many months supply puts suspicion  on them . They do not have the economy to pay market rates &amp; get discounts fr the pipes Xing their borders.</p>
<p>You can not incite hatred against one country _in this case russia as usual &#8211; on false claims. </p>
<p>To see the global impact of stupid greedy economics  you must not be blindsided by illogical hatred.</p>
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		<title>By: I'm a Linda too</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117148</link>
		<dc:creator>I'm a Linda too</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117148</guid>
		<description>Looks like Putin&#039;s own actions have quieted the extreme left from future blame to others.

I called my Senators today to bark at this supposed stimulus plan that is basically part stimulus, rest- more giveaways.  With money going for local districts for school aid and 39 Billion to Cobra Insurance etc, Senator Bingman&#039;s aid&#039;s response to me was &quot;some economists believe ANY money the Government spends is a stimulus&quot;.  I said with that kind of rationalizing, just give the money to those Hedge Funders and watch the money spent not do a damn thing AGAIN, for the 2nd time and try to use that argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like Putin&#8217;s own actions have quieted the extreme left from future blame to others.</p>
<p>I called my Senators today to bark at this supposed stimulus plan that is basically part stimulus, rest- more giveaways.  With money going for local districts for school aid and 39 Billion to Cobra Insurance etc, Senator Bingman&#8217;s aid&#8217;s response to me was &#8220;some economists believe ANY money the Government spends is a stimulus&#8221;.  I said with that kind of rationalizing, just give the money to those Hedge Funders and watch the money spent not do a damn thing AGAIN, for the 2nd time and try to use that argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve_in_KC</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117141</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve_in_KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117141</guid>
		<description>I have to say, this is some scary stuff.  I often think about what caused major wars in the past, and if my knowledge of history serves me at all, it seems that territorial commerce was most often the issue that fanned the flames of war.

In the late 1930s, Germany was struggling to survive the economic collapse of the Great Depression era while simlutaneously brooding about the humiliation heaped upon it by the victorious allies of the Great War, WWI.  Stripped of its military might by the Treaty of Versailles, and crippled economically, it became a festering sore that came to a bloody head with the coming of Naziism.  Left in ruins with no aid from the victors of WWI, Germany rebuilt with (forgive me for this!) a furor!

Across the globe, Japan and the US were locked in an increasingly hostile competition for economic control of the Pacific Rim.  US hegemony in the Pacific butted heads with the same from Japan, which had a strong military force in the Pacific.  The growing hostility came from economic competition in desperate times.  Control of shipping lanes in the Pacific was the fuse to the powderkeg, and when diplomacy failed, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, hoping to destroy the bulk of the US Navy in one fell swoop.  The Japanese military knew that it was the start of a war for control of the Pacific.  It&#039;s scary to think how close they came to winning it, what with the US fighting the war on two fronts.

It&#039;s always about the money, isn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say, this is some scary stuff.  I often think about what caused major wars in the past, and if my knowledge of history serves me at all, it seems that territorial commerce was most often the issue that fanned the flames of war.</p>
<p>In the late 1930s, Germany was struggling to survive the economic collapse of the Great Depression era while simlutaneously brooding about the humiliation heaped upon it by the victorious allies of the Great War, WWI.  Stripped of its military might by the Treaty of Versailles, and crippled economically, it became a festering sore that came to a bloody head with the coming of Naziism.  Left in ruins with no aid from the victors of WWI, Germany rebuilt with (forgive me for this!) a furor!</p>
<p>Across the globe, Japan and the US were locked in an increasingly hostile competition for economic control of the Pacific Rim.  US hegemony in the Pacific butted heads with the same from Japan, which had a strong military force in the Pacific.  The growing hostility came from economic competition in desperate times.  Control of shipping lanes in the Pacific was the fuse to the powderkeg, and when diplomacy failed, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, hoping to destroy the bulk of the US Navy in one fell swoop.  The Japanese military knew that it was the start of a war for control of the Pacific.  It&#8217;s scary to think how close they came to winning it, what with the US fighting the war on two fronts.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s always about the money, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Tricia Spiegel</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117133</link>
		<dc:creator>Tricia Spiegel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117133</guid>
		<description>Thanks LD.  Not good news, but I need to be educated.  I appreciate this info.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks LD.  Not good news, but I need to be educated.  I appreciate this info.</p>
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		<title>By: fiscalliberal</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117094</link>
		<dc:creator>fiscalliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117094</guid>
		<description>LD - let me jut comment that this is exactly the type of news we need to hear which is not covered in the Main Stream Media. Yes it is bad, but it lets us deal with reality versus wringing out hands.

Some more Detroit Auto news: quoting from the Detroit Free Press today:
--------------------------------------------------
U.S sales fell to 13.2 million in 2008, down 18% from 16.1 million in 2007.


General Motors Corp. today announced it is making plans to restructure its business based on lower U.S. industry sales this year of 10.5 million, a sign of how tough things are going to be for the automaker.

-----------------------------------------------

This weekend we are visiting the grandchildren and playing cards versus going out to some expensive event. More quality family time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LD &#8211; let me jut comment that this is exactly the type of news we need to hear which is not covered in the Main Stream Media. Yes it is bad, but it lets us deal with reality versus wringing out hands.</p>
<p>Some more Detroit Auto news: quoting from the Detroit Free Press today:<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
U.S sales fell to 13.2 million in 2008, down 18% from 16.1 million in 2007.</p>
<p>General Motors Corp. today announced it is making plans to restructure its business based on lower U.S. industry sales this year of 10.5 million, a sign of how tough things are going to be for the automaker.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>This weekend we are visiting the grandchildren and playing cards versus going out to some expensive event. More quality family time.</p>
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		<title>By: fiscalliberal</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117080</link>
		<dc:creator>fiscalliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117080</guid>
		<description>LD - another little story that I got from my daughter whose husband trades intenationally. 

----------------------------------------------------
I was talking to my husbands sales guy last night ... he has a business friend who just returned from Southern China.  Seems most of the factories have been shut down and unemployment is running at 70% in some cities.  Just across the border from Hong Kong... he was in a taxi and it slowed for traffic.... a whole bunch of people were banging on the windows trying to get into the cab to steal what they could.  The cabbie said that everyone is out of work/cash and are trying to steal enough to return home for Lunar New Year.   
 
Not a good sign.... for global economic turnaround hopes.  ( or for chinese post olympic tourism 
----------------------------------------------------

What does that mean to us - China will have less money to suppor our debt. They have been pulling money from the GSE&#039;s and putting it in Treasuries. Continued economic slow down is less reserves for them to buy our debt. 

I think we can expect our interest rates to go up to pay for the stimulus as the money gets expended. Transfer of soldiers from Iraq to Afghanistan will not reduce miliary costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LD &#8211; another little story that I got from my daughter whose husband trades intenationally. </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
I was talking to my husbands sales guy last night &#8230; he has a business friend who just returned from Southern China.  Seems most of the factories have been shut down and unemployment is running at 70% in some cities.  Just across the border from Hong Kong&#8230; he was in a taxi and it slowed for traffic&#8230;. a whole bunch of people were banging on the windows trying to get into the cab to steal what they could.  The cabbie said that everyone is out of work/cash and are trying to steal enough to return home for Lunar New Year.   </p>
<p>Not a good sign&#8230;. for global economic turnaround hopes.  ( or for chinese post olympic tourism<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>What does that mean to us &#8211; China will have less money to suppor our debt. They have been pulling money from the GSE&#8217;s and putting it in Treasuries. Continued economic slow down is less reserves for them to buy our debt. </p>
<p>I think we can expect our interest rates to go up to pay for the stimulus as the money gets expended. Transfer of soldiers from Iraq to Afghanistan will not reduce miliary costs.</p>
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		<title>By: Northwest rain</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/11159/spanning-the-globe/#comment-1117054</link>
		<dc:creator>Northwest rain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=11159#comment-1117054</guid>
		<description>I live near the Puget Sound in WA State.

  There are two major shipping ports -- Seattle and Tacoma -- and we see the huge container ships coming and going all the time. 

  We also have a sailboat and when you are on a tiny boat in the shipping lanes you are very aware of all the big ships.

  In September we sailed out to the Pacific -- going west on the Straight of Juan de Fuca. We saw numerous tanker, container ships going to Canada -- but NONE going east toward Seattle/Tacoma. On the return trip we saw NO major shipping traffic on the US side of Juan de Fuca. NONE. Again ships were going north to Canada. We were in transit on the water for many hours (sailboats are sort of slow) -- and not a single huge ship was seen. 

  This has never happened before -- crossing the shipping lanes on a tiny sailboat always means we have to be alert to commercial shipping and HUGE ships. Typically we have to dodge large ships, including cruise liners. We have lots of close up and personal photos of shipping traffic seen from our boat. In June we sailed across the Puget Sound -- headed toward Seattle -- and the commercial shipping traffic was typical. We had to use our engine to scoot between a long line of ships. Three months later -- zero shipping. 

  So in September I suspected that the Economic crisis had gone global. 

  I&#039;ve mentioned my observations about the lack of shipping to US Northwest ports -- but this is the first time that I have confirmation that our observations wasn&#039;t a fluke. 

  The article mentioned Southern CA ports. 

  Canada may have had a reduction in shipping traffic -- but when NONE/zero container ships are seen in US waters and several commercial ships are seen in Canadian waters -- this is serious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live near the Puget Sound in WA State.</p>
<p>  There are two major shipping ports &#8212; Seattle and Tacoma &#8212; and we see the huge container ships coming and going all the time. </p>
<p>  We also have a sailboat and when you are on a tiny boat in the shipping lanes you are very aware of all the big ships.</p>
<p>  In September we sailed out to the Pacific &#8212; going west on the Straight of Juan de Fuca. We saw numerous tanker, container ships going to Canada &#8212; but NONE going east toward Seattle/Tacoma. On the return trip we saw NO major shipping traffic on the US side of Juan de Fuca. NONE. Again ships were going north to Canada. We were in transit on the water for many hours (sailboats are sort of slow) &#8212; and not a single huge ship was seen. </p>
<p>  This has never happened before &#8212; crossing the shipping lanes on a tiny sailboat always means we have to be alert to commercial shipping and HUGE ships. Typically we have to dodge large ships, including cruise liners. We have lots of close up and personal photos of shipping traffic seen from our boat. In June we sailed across the Puget Sound &#8212; headed toward Seattle &#8212; and the commercial shipping traffic was typical. We had to use our engine to scoot between a long line of ships. Three months later &#8212; zero shipping. </p>
<p>  So in September I suspected that the Economic crisis had gone global. </p>
<p>  I&#8217;ve mentioned my observations about the lack of shipping to US Northwest ports &#8212; but this is the first time that I have confirmation that our observations wasn&#8217;t a fluke. </p>
<p>  The article mentioned Southern CA ports. </p>
<p>  Canada may have had a reduction in shipping traffic &#8212; but when NONE/zero container ships are seen in US waters and several commercial ships are seen in Canadian waters &#8212; this is serious.</p>
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