Right Wing Nuttiness

Ahhh!!!

It’s like talking to my family! I can’t do it!!!

ah, the revisionism of the right wing is truly incredulous! karl rove’s claim last week that congress forced bush to invade iraq is a tragic example of how conservatives will say anything with a straight face … lying is like a breath of fresh air to these people.

i would comment on the john glenn portion but that has been answered thoroughly i beleive; but, let me say this … isnt it ironic that this dullard would quote a democrat! as to FDR and the second war, i guess the fact that germany declared war on the US needs to be ignored. i agree korea was a mistake but lets not forget truman did limit how the conservatves would have responded ( halted the invasion of china). ike was the first american president to send troops to vietnam. i could go on and on with more factual refutations but to be honest i tire easily when poking holes in the arguments of conservatives.

thanks for reading.!

1) Irrelevant, unfortunately our military is lying
about the deaths and the numbers injured
2) A) FDR lead us to victory, we were Attacked by the Empire of Japan\
b) Germany attacked us before the Japanese did they torpedoed US Destroyers
c) Truman defended our ally and client state South Korea
d) JFK inherited Vietnam from Eisenhower
e) Johnson inherited the war in Vietnam from Eisenhower and JFK and fought it
during the COLD WAR (anybody remember that little annoyance)
f) It’s President Clinton, and he defended at request of NATO a people
being slaughtered by the thousands by other crazy Christians, all HIS troops came home
f1) Clinton was NOT offered BinLaden on a platter, and a number of
attempts to get him were quashed by a risk averse CIA
g) Taliban now controls 50% of Afghanistan, thanks to GWB taking the eye off the ball there
g1) GWB has been a stellar RECRUITER for Al Qaida (note see IRAQ)
h) Bush pulled the nuclear inspectors OUT of Iraq,
i) Dems complain about NOT paying for an unnecessary war,
Dems complain about NOT having up armored equipment (see you go to war with the army you got…)
Dems complain about lies about US Ambassadors
Dems complain about outing CIA agents
Dems complain about warrantless spying on US Citizens
Dems complain about people held with out trial
Hillary Clinton’s Rose Law firm document exonerated her
Ted Kennedy has been re-elected by the people of MA for 30yrs
George Bush has helped kill close to a Million Iraqis
and close to 4thousand (that we know) American heroes
George Bush had the Republican Supreme Court STOP the counting of the votes in FLORIDA (really look up the decision, the Bovine Court decided that the client (BUSH) would be harmed if all the votes were counted….
John Glen a DEMOCRAT and Hero never had THAT conversation with Metzenbaum

But the repugs still shovel out this crap fact less and clueless and the
Good people of the US still believe them…..

I)”John Glenn said”

First, Snopes (a site respected for researching and explaining various rumors, especially related to the internet) has this very piece as an update to another quote attributed to John Glenn. This other quote, “I have held a job!”, is actually true. The quote in the letter, which they attribute to anonymous, was not Glenn:

WARNING: SNOPES HAS POP-UPS!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

II) “39 combat related killings in Iraq during January”

January of what year?

January 2007:
Iraqi and Security Forces Death Toll: 1,802
US Deaths: 83

January 2006:
Iraqi and Security Forces Death Toll: 779
US Deaths: 62

January 2005:
Iraqi and Security Forces Death Toll: Unavailable
US Deaths: 107

January 2004:
Iraqi and Security Forces Death Toll: Unavailable
US Deaths: 47

Source: Iraq Coalition Casualties Count

None of those years show anything as low as 39. We can assume the numbers are always at least in the hundreds from 2004 on. Certainly, during 2004 and 2005 it would be difficult to distinquish innocents from enemies. Such is war.

“In the fair city of Detroit, there were 35 murders in the month of January”

If we ONLY count US Servicemen (and I’m not clear on why we would limit ourselves to them, precious as they are to Americans), we find that there were 366 murders in Detroit in all of 2004, while US Armed forces lost 752 service members in the first 538 days of the Iraq conflict. This puts Iraq at about 33-40% higher (just for US service members! Not counting other coalition forces and Iraqis) than Detroit on average for the same period of time.

Source: Google Answers (debated by two gents who back up their claims).

III) World War II, Japan and Germany, etc.

First, if people really believe that AQ is as dangerous as Japan or Germany, then we have a real problem with both memory and perception of scale.

Second, any and all claims of cooperation between Hussein’s regime and OBL have been debunked, if the implication here is AQ attacked us so it made sense to invade Iraq because FDR brought us into the European conflict. Hussein was secular and OBL very religious. Their differences are obvious and glaring. Also, Germany was a clear threat to US allies and interests. Can we say the same about Iraq? They invaded Kuwait and got their hinders handed to them. Germany or Japan, indeed.

IV) Other ‘Democrat’ conflicts.

In Korea, we faced not only North Korea but the USSR and communist China (though much of that was not public at the time). Is it any wonder there were such losses?

Viet Nam was a mistake. In fact, it is the lack of learning the lessons of it (in part) that make the Iraq conflict so untenable. Add to this the rampant raping and pillaging of the US treasury by outsourced contractors who show no interest in achieving the goals that our military strive daily to reach (I refer to these companies sending unqualified individuals to train Iraqi police, and security contractors who set back the good will that the Army has worked so hard to create by randomly shooting or greatly over-reacting to threats). Their only interest is the bottomline, so sending qualified, properly trained people is not as important to them as warm bodies soaking up US tax dollars. To make matters worse, they do not seem to have proper oversight nor do they seem to be held responsible for their actions, whether it’s losing weapons, billions of dollars, overbilling, or killing innocent Iraqis. But I digress.

Clinton and Bosnia – it was ethnic cleansing. See note about memory above. One of the greatest tragedies of the Iraq conflict is that we don’t have the troops to send to places like Darfur where millions have been killed over similar reasons.

(I would add what is perhaps the most important and most forgotten fact about the Clinton administration: they blew up an AQ training camp and set them back, it seems, at least 21 months. AQ planned to attack several cities: London, Paris, New York and others on 12/31/1999. This plan was identified and stopped. Democrats weak on defense indeed.)

V) President Bush has liberated two countries and crushed the Taliban. Would it were so. The Taliban is making a comeback. Afghanistan is having numerous problems. Though people rarely quote it, I think the very first justification for going into Iraq from President Bush was “I’m not gonna waste a $1,000,000 rocket firing on a $10 tent to his a $25 camel in the ass” (severely paraphrased from sometime in 2004). Does it really make sense to go to war in another country because there are no good targets in the one you should be fighting in? I submit that this should have been a big clue that the methods and means he intended to implement were the wrong ones for the job.

VI) Bush has crippled AQ. Yes, that’s why we had OBL on trial last year. Oh, wait, we didn’t. OBL is still free to release videos and recruit to his sick heart’s content. While I hope joining AQ has become passe, that they are dwindling, that they’re done for, I doubt it. The letter you forwarded to Larry was written in 2004, early in the conflict. Now we have seen just how badly the State Department bungled so many aspects of this conflict. Can the ‘War on Terror’ really be going so much better?

VII) Hussein killed 300,000 of his own people. Glad he’s gone. I do believe, however, that the majority of those 300,000 died fighting with Iranians, possibly even as proxy for the US. Does this mean that we can say, President Bush killed thousands of his own people because US service members have died? I don’t think it really passes the smell test. But Hussein was a brutal dictator, and one less in the world is not such a bad thing in and of itself. That the various factions that he had browbeat into behaving have since tortured and killed each other is a problem though.

VIII) Bush put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and North Korea. I don’t think any of those are going well, but let’s say Libya at least is cooperating. Iran isn’t. North Korea isn’t. This is just incorrect.

IX) Democrats complaining about how long the war is taking. As alluded to above, after the invasion of Kuwait the Iraqi military was rather devastated. It is too bad that we didn’t realize just how bad off it was. But the issue is more about how to deal with nationbuilding than it is about the invasion. Our troops did their jobs going in when the goals were clear. Now, being in the hands of the politicians, the mission is not so clear nor is it the one most of them were trained to do.

And he’s a democrat… John Glenn said…
This should make you think a little:

1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
(reply:
a. not sure which January this person is citing but figures are:
January 2004 – 47
January 2005 – 108
January 2006 – 61
January 2007. 82
But civilian deaths were up to 1971 in January 2007 from 1930 in January 2006. As usual, those in favor of destroying Iraq don’t count the destruction at the hands of our military.
b. he picked one of the lower months to consider, when compared to April 07 thru Jun 07 where US lost 331 troops and Detroit had how many in the same period? Considering the total for Detroit in all of 2006 was 411, I doubt that 331 died because the total for Detroit by July 1, 2007 was: 362.
c. The comparison assumes the conditions would be the same between Detroit and Iraq, and that isn’t an equal comparison. While Detroit may be a tough city, it is not a war zone.

2. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.
That’s just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.a. The population of Detroit is: 918,849. Its pop density is: 2,647/km² 6,856/sq mi. A declining population no less.
b. Iraq has a total of: 26,783,383 / Density of 66/km²
Therefore his entire premise of comparing a dense city with a sparse country is also apples and oranges. Maybe comparing Baghdad to Detroit might help. But if you are then going to compare city for city, perhaps you should gauge them with a BEFORE occupation, and after occupation homicide rate as well. If you start adding other cities. Considering the total homicide rate for the US is: 17,034, you might be entering a new argument. What were the total homicides in Iraq before Occupation? Before US soldiers arrived, how many Iraqis died by the hands of other Iraqis.
When some claim that President Bush shouldn’t have started this war, state the following:
The entirety of the authors comments misalign apples and oranges, and the reasons behind “starting” a war are oversimplified to make them easy to distort. This is the common Hannity style variation where you use strawman like arguments that make easy thoughtless comparisons.
While WWII wasn’t thrust upon the United States, Korea wasn’t thrust upon the US, Vietnam wasn’t thrust upon the US, nor was Bosnia, each of these examples were part of a continued policy that knows no variation between Democrat and Republican. El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Grenada, and other examples of US interventions abound in Republican history
examples of common involvement in other people’s business –
-Dwight Eisenhower orders Operation Blue Bat, the sending of 15,000 marines to Lebanon
-Dwight Eisenhower sends tactical support to French in Vietnam.
-Dwight Eisenhower sends tactical support and training to South Vietnamese
-Richard Nixon supports overthrow of Salvador Allende by Augusto Pinochet.
-Richard Nixon supports Pakistan in Indo-Pakistan war despite the human rights abuses of the Bengalis.
-Richard Nixon supported Israel with arms during Yom Kippur War
-Gerald Ford gives approval to let Indonesia use arms provided by US against East Timor. Leads Indonesia’s genocide against East Timor
-Ronald Reagan invades Grenada to topple regime friendly to Soviet Union and Cuba
-Ronald Reagan sold arms to Iran
-Ronald Reagan took the funds from Iran and funded insurgency in Nicaragua
-Ronald Reagan promoted civil war in El Salvador for his right wing allies
-Ronald Reagan supported proxy war between insurgent forces and Soviet Union
-GHWBush – Operation Just Cause was the U.S. military invasion of Panama and don’t forget Gulf War One
3. FDR led us into World War II
a. (when did he do that? Last I checked, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Even though I believe FDR and others knew it was coming (Day of Deceipt), none the less the attack allowed the US to enter the war that had already been full blown on two fronts. Unless you consider 9/11 and Pearl Harbor false flag operations, then the comparisons about entering the war are not equal. The amount of events going on before US involvement take long time to list here but Japan and Germany had already invaded over a dozen countries combined.
4. Germany never attacked us ; Japan did.
>From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost
a. Japan did attack, perhaps allowed to, and then Germany declared war on the US on Dec 11, 1941. How is that like George Bush attacking Iraq?
b. Iraq never declared war on the US. It did not attack the US, so there is no comparison
c. The amount of dead, you must only mean US soldiers. Which again shows why you can’t see the stats of war as they are. The totals dead are closer to:
Allies
Military dead over 14,000,000
Civilian dead over 36,000,000
Axis
Military dead 8,000,000
Civilian dead 4,000,000
leaving over 72,000,000 dead
Total US deaths: 416,800 (though their lives count barely 0.32% of the population)
Total deaths other than US: 21,583,200 total
Total allied deaths other than US: 13,583,200
5. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea
North Korea never attacked us .
>From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost .
an average of 18,334 per year.a. Truman served in WWI, Bush avoided Vietnam. Maybe not such a good comparison
b. Kim Il-Sung invaded South Korea.
c. The UN sided with Truman, a first, (and it was a gimme) comparison to Bush. The forces that went into Korea also included Britain, Canada, Australia, Philippines, Turkey, Netherlands, France, New Zealand, Thailand, Ethopia, Greece, Columbia, Belgium, South Africa, and Luxembourg.
d. Truman also beat Bush for the lowest rating in US history 22%
e. Again only counts combat totals as he sees fit, this time combining non-combat where elsewhere he omits them.
Actual Casualties
South Korean – 58,127 dead – 175, 743 wounded 80,000 MIAPOW
United States – 36,516 dead – 103,284 wounded – 8,177 MIAPOW|
Turkey – 721 dead – 2111 wounded – 384 MIAPOW
Canada – 516 dead – 1042 wounded
Australia – 339 dead -1200 wounded
France: 300 KIA or MIA
Total: Over 474,000
North Korea: 215,000 dead, 303,000 wounded, 120,000 MIA or POW
China
(Chinese estimate):
114,000 killed in combat 34,000 non-combat deaths 380,000 wounded 21,400 POW
(US estimate):
400,000+ dead – 486,000 wounded – 21,000 POW
Soviet Union:
315 dead
Total: 1,190,000-1,577,000+
f. Iraq didn’t attack the United States. Nor was the war to counter an invasion of an ally.
6. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us. (Again, and over simplification. Reply:)
a. The death of Lieutenant Colonel A. Peter Dewey occurs at the hands of the Viet Minh Sept 26, 1945
b. November 1, 1955 – Eisenhower sends the Military Assistance Advisory Group to train the S. Vietnamese.
*go to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial and look at when US involvement starts.
c. The concept of Domino Theory didn’t start with Kennedy but his Republican predecessor, Eisenhower. He spoke of the Indochina collapse to communism. April 7, 1954
d. July 8, 1959 – US Advisors Charles Ovnand and Dale R. Buis die in Bien Hoa training S. Vietnamese soldiers
e. JFKennedy is reported to have been in “shock and dismay” over the murder of Diem.
f. With a weakened South Vietnamese force, JFK sent special forces to train. This did continue the escalation of military activity into Vietnam but it wasn’t the beginning. Again it is more of a comparison to BushI and GulfWar I with Kuwait, than GWBush’s invasion of Iraq.
g. Iraq didn’t attack the United States either. Nor was the war to counter an invasion of an ally.
7. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
>From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost ..
an average of 5,800 per year.a. (that only counts the US dead, not the 153,452 US wounded or the 1947 US missing, but more important it ignores the civilians in those countries. )
Seems to imply Johnson was the worst demon of the Vietnam war, and maybe he was…but it didn’t stop under a Republican either, and was promoted all along by the Nixon allies.
b. Operation Menu, the carpet bombing of Cambodia (Mar 1969) was signed by Richard Nixon.
c. Cambodian expansion comes in April 1970 under Nixon
d. Nixon encouraged the overthrow of Salvador Allende by Augusto Pinochet
e. Nixon was a strong advocate of involvement in Vietnam back to 1953
f. Nixon told his military leaders to lie to the public about Cambodian operations
8a. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us .
a. NATO went to war in Bosnia
b. Republicans framed Clinton’s decision to bomb against his blowjob not about the supposed intervention of genocide
c. The comments by Republicans against Clinton seem to flipflop on Iraq. Examples
Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)—“You can support the troops but not the president.”
Joe Scarborough (R-FL)—“ “Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years.”
Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99—“Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?”
Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)”—-“[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy.”
Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)—“American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy.”–
Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush —“If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.”
Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)—“ I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . I didn’t think we had done enough in the diplomatic area.”–
Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)—“ I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today”–
Governor George W. Bush (R)-TX —Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.”
8b. He was offered Osama bin Laden’s head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.a. Fabrication originating from NewsMax.com
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/20/112336.shtml
b. Refuted in 9-11 Commission (if you believe those guys)
http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/staff_statement_5.pdf
c. June 20, 2004 – 60 minutes, Clinton denies this:
” offered bin Laden to us,’ says Mr. Clinton. ‘As far as I know, there is not a shred of evidence of that.’””
d. If there is additional evidence of this, it hasn’t surfaced. So far its just Hannity’s delusion vs the world of reality.
8c. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.a. an easy gimme..on one level…but the implication is that no response was given. That is not so, and assumes much via hindsight. CIA wasn’t tracking Bin Laden until 1996 supposedly. But that would put the tracking under a Clinton term, and thus show that from the beginning of the Bush term, Condi Rice and crew should have been freakin experts on Bin Laden. Not exactly your shining example, but who cares what happened from Jan 2001 to Sept 2001, right? Nah…vacation’s all I ever wanted
9. In the years since terrorists attacked us ,
President Bush has liberated two countries,
crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida,
put nuclear inspectors in Libya , Iran , and, North Korea
without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who
slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.a. Liberated? Iraq and Afghanistan aren’t “liberated”. The Taliban hasn’t been defeated. They have been deposed from official power but are a vital insurgent group now with poppy season at an all time high.
b. Liberated? Iraq’s civilian deaths under Saddam are alleged to be between 600,000 to 1,000,000 people. The counts from Liberation are vary depending on who you ask but range from: 34,452 – 1,220,580. UN says, 34,452, the Opinion Research Business Poll of london claims 1, 220,580
c. Ask the Iraqi neighbors how many new Iraqis they have in their neighborhood after they fled Iraq.
d. Liberation? The country is in chaos overall. Turkey is poised to invade the north, there is no federal face on this thing yet.
e. Bush put inspectors in? Bush and Cheney and co. did everything they could to destroy the intel about Iran. They’ve ignored inspection results from Iran. North Korea is starving due to Kim Jung Il’s policies, not Bush. They’re hungry now.
f. Qaddafi wants Libya to get world recognition again.
(concusion: sickening attempt to make Bush like Reagan and the Cold War, but…Bush didn’t do all these things. And he hasn’t done anything “without a shot”
10. The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking.

The Democrat complaints..were ever those are…center less on how long the war is taking than how just the war is, or was, how it has busted the bank, it has no conceivable endgame, there are no benchmarks sticking, the commander in chief supplies no vision, “stay the course” isn’t a plan. The above statement is bunk and a red herring.
11, It took less time to take Iraq
11a – Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation..
11b – We’ve been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less time
it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
11c – It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard
than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.
11d – it took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!
a. I have no idea what “take Iraq” means, but if it is equal to “mission accomplished” then all the comments are useless because the mission hasn’t been accomplished.
b. If it means simply topple the Bathist government of Saddam Hussain, that didn’t happen in days and weeks, but over a decade in the works. The Iraqi army and air force was destroyed over a decade ago in Gulf War 1, its inability to replenish was ensured in the next decade, so there was nothing to confront but the people. It takes two armies to have a war. We are in the middle of an occupation and fighting civilians.
c. Your examples show me what you are more focused on than policy and troops. You are simply a partisan koolaide guy. You can tell that simply by the Chappaquiddick comment…and I’m amazed you’d want to count the votes in Florida.

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB !

reply: not according to the majority of americans even on the FoxNews Opinion polls they can’t get more than their 35% loyalists.

The Military morale is high!

reply: dude I think you are high. I don’t know which military you think is standing in high morale these days, but the only thing keeping their morale up at all is a sense of loyalty to their own platoon, duty, but wait skippy, did you miss this factoid?
(4,698) 9 in 1000 troops went AWOL in 2007 compared to
(3,301) 6 in 1000 troops going AWOL in 2006

Next….

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

Oh I love the “Biased Media” game….thats the one that has us all voting republican right. It’s the “left wing” media on Wednesdays and the Corporate Media on Thursdays or is it Fridays.
I don’t want to outright disagree with this comment, but I know that the intent behind the comment has room for comment….The Media Trumped up this freaking war from DAY ONE. This Media you refer to, created banners, flying eagles, waving flags, drooling anchors (Aaron Brown anyone), and fueled a new network’s niche of jingoistic furvor….FoxNews. CNN hasn’t done squat to end the war, MSNBC has Olbermann, but that’s it, and nobody else in the mainstream has done anything to stop the war including NYTimes, WashingtonPost, LATimes, Houston Chronicle, Chicago Sun-Times. So your overall assertion is a wash.

(This is just strange)
(snip)
JOHN GLENN (on the Senate floor – January 26, 2004)
Some people still don’t understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it’s also a good example of one man’s explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living. This IS a typical, though sad, example of what
some who have never served think of the military.
(Maybe 1974 debate, but not January 26, 2004. and you have no evidence it was impromptu)

during W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney
representing the Communist Party in the USA (how democratic) .

(There is no evidence Metzenbaum worked for the Communist Party)
Now he’s a Senator!
(out dated post because neither are senators now)
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
(I can read this thanks to my grandmother, so yeah, a teacher…the greatest)
If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran.
(nein, you jingo. I read it in English because of many people who were never soldiers, but sought conquest in the English tongue. I read it in English because I come from English speaking people for over 44 generations beyond my granddad Edward II the founder Kings Hall at Cambridge. I descend directly from both the signer of the Magna Carta and the men who made him sign it. And while I claim no royal blood, I know where I come from. King John descended from Guillaume le Conquérant and he from King Rollo. How far back do you want to trance my thanks for English?

But unfortunately due to the gross manipulation of the American masses my chances at translating anything you wrote into another language are limited because the United States is an anemic monoglot that has been taught to hate other languages but the conquering colonial tongue of England.

It might not be a bad idea to keep this circulating.

Nah, kill this thread.
I AM!!

I see this shit all the time, Im begining to believe this stuff comes from the GOP think tanks who are trying sooooo hard to make that son of a Bush look like a real man, that they sit and think up this bullshit for days. Nice try, but they all look like retards.

ahhh christ. i’ve been up all night and was just about to go to bed and this steaming turd shows up.

the good news is 4 posters elicted belly laughs. 1) argg sounds like my family. 2) military morale is high//dude you’re high. 3) general motors is moving to baghdad. (taters, first that was tremendous reframing. second, didn’t know you were from the motor city. and a belated thanks for you great post downblog. this veterans for peace flat out loved that robert cray video. the boots lined up, symbolizing the dead, is something we, vfp, started. with crosses on the beach in california. arlington west. i am really trying to incorporate music into my life. don’t sing for a lick and don’t play an instrument; am going to give myself a christmas present and take lessons in drumming.) 4) and the don’t have enough time to pop all these rhetorical zits.

the longer i stay in the cesspool of the sausage making (bismarck reference) of the dying empire, and stare into nietzsche’s abyss (“be careful when you gaze into the abyss, lest the abyss….” basically, suck you in it’s soul killing vortex.) the longer i do that, the more and more that i appreciate the need for mental hygiene. which, lately is taking 2 forms. one, is cranking some kick ass songs; praise jesus for you tube. and two, is humor. i’ve learned at hard cost to myself that humor is my “canary in the coal mine.” does anybody know of any websites that have jokes? any jokes are good and quite welcome. but i really love political jokes.

here is the best place i’ve found for anti bush bumper snickers, i mean stickers. some of them are funny.

http://stampandshout.com/

cont’d.

Interesting exercise, but in my opinion a waste of time. The majority of people that spout such shit are still defending Richard Nixon. With few exceptions you will not change many with the truth. They do not care about the truth if it does not fit their personal dogma. Why not spend our energies actively fighting against the rising Fascist tide, before it’s too late. In the past few years how many stories have we all read that at first take we thought, “Nah, not even these evil bastards would dare that!”, only to find out too late for action that they DID DARE. Case in point pending legislation S 1959 or known as “Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007″. Ever heard of it? Well if the answer is no you might think of giving it a read and contacting your elected Reps and local news papers to RAISE MORTAL HELL! Raise your voices and put a shoulder to the door of Fascism and help close it or practice Shuttin’ the fuck up”. How about it? Anyone for a little activism? The most important point made by Naomi Wolf in “The End of America” was that Hitler took control of a democratic government………. LEGALLY!

Japan attacked the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. The United States declared war on Japan. Germany was allied with Japan (the original Axis); so, Germany declared war on the US.

Vietnam – I don’t know why the author of this fiction would want to bring up another unncessary war. In Vietnam we became involved in a civil war. In Iraq, we unleashed one. And with all due respect to the Domino Theorists, it did not happen after the fall of Saigon. We did not, as President Johnson warned if we quit Vietnam, “have to fight them in Hawaii tomorrow and San Francisco next week.”

There is no doubt we lost the Vietnam war, but what did we actually lose. We don’t speak Vietnamese. We still had all our freedoms, until Bush began taking them away. If you lose a war and don’t lose anything as a result, doesn’t that mean by definition the war unnecessary in the first place?

As a young man, this was when I lost my cherry and discovered that my government would lie to me and those lies could get me killed.

Larry, first it takes a nutter to know a nutter. Because far from rebutting Mr Glenn, I can add some.

To condense John’s fine utterences into some harmony, a quick internet search revealed a single simple link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_history_events

No wonder the religious right don’t want wikipedia around! Although, saddly, even that place is starting to suffer from “political correctness”. But I tell you, United States Military History events is one of the biggest pages on the internet.
I mean, prior to 1840 they have had skirmishes in Mexico, the Falkland Islands (WTF) and Indonesia. Too busy killin’ off the native Indians to concetrate on anything else. And then came the Civil War….hmmm right after the Mexican American War. Actually, Japan, China, Fiji, Utah!!! came between Mexico and the Civil War. OK most of these were minor skirmishes by modern standards. Spannish-American, Philipine-American were highlights in continued agressive behaviour in Asia and South America right until the First World War – a War that the Americans took an enormous amount of credit for not a lot. More agression against China until World War 2. Now I must add that not only was FDR a Corporate whore and engaged a War based on the previous template (the difference with this war that some funds found their way into German coffers), but some believe that Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbour was known well before time (similar to the modern debarcle called 911). Few have had the courage to delve any deeper, but it seems the US did the usual and entered a conflict for baseless reasons.

Well, I’m gettin’ outta puff. But again John has neglected to mention the alarm bells raised to Trumann on Communist influences in Vietnam in 1949 by the then leader. What did Trumann do? Nuttin’ of course. Instead he decided to lose the Korean War traditional in American style (we won, er lost). Then we had Cuba, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, Cambodia, Laos (too minor). I know LBJ had a cement business, but I know he was a good man underneath. Why was Kennedy assassinated? Was he going to do the unthinkable and pull out of Vietnam? Then of course we had Lebanon, Iran, Lybia, Lebanon again and El Salvador somewhere in the mix. Grenada, Honduras, Panama & we haven’t even considered CIA run campaigns.

Yes John is right. If NATO had not backed Clinton he would have gone ahead alone. Albright & Reno are definitive evidence that witches exist in the Democrat camp as well. Waco was one of the greatest travesties legimised by the “justice system” on the basis of everything foul. Even Stalin would have been appalled at the wanton lack of rights given to the those poor people who were a scapegoat for social ignorance.

Not a single person I have interviewed can give a coherent answer on why the Dravidians were so destructive, beyond name-calling the self professed (and clearly in need of help) Messiah David Koresh.

Yes there is a clear parallel between the 100,000 annual gun related killings in the US and the trivial numbers that are perishing in order to keep the oil safe. What is your priority American government, to nuriture or to kill your people? You may mention Stalin or Hitler as examples of great tyranny beyond the imagination. But both Hitler and Stalin were clear on their objectives, while the US preaches Global civilisation while pointing a gun. The visible lack of scruples have sought out the beast within.

Can the leopard change its spots?