Gather ‘Round, You Devilworshippers (and Unleash the Jackals of the Open Thread)

I wonder if Bill O’Reilly will cover the story about Engineers Without Borders on PBS Newshour … a UC professor of engineering visited a small village (in South America, I think) and watched young girls carrying big pitchers of water back and forth, all day, from the river to the village. Because their labor was necessary for the village, they couldn’t go to school. He and other engineers designed a water system for the village, which freed the young girls to go to school. He formed Engineers Without Borders.

He’s going to use money he was awarded to build a network of vocational schools around the globe to create the next generation of engineers.

There has to be a term for when a miscreant of a president and his maladministration claim plausible deniability in ever-decreasing time spans from the present day, eg, “I found out last Tuesday,” “he briefed me yesterday.”

The more relevant debate between pundits and perfomance centers around the Obama-Krugman conversation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/opinion/30krugman.html?pagewanted=print
Obama is adopting right wing talking points on domestic programs, running to the right of every Democrat.

This is the same guy taking foreign advice from Colin Powell.

That one fact alone should be enough for Americans to tell him to go Cheney himself.

He’s basically taking the brainwash-, errr the foreign policy advice that centers on right wing talking points, and channeled it domestically to try and frame that debate from the same perspective.

You’re going to ground America’s ready to leave behind, Barack.

It might work when you want to woo votes from fat Hastert’s district, but he’s leaving for a reason.

So should you, if that’s what you’re going to be about.

I recently castigated Mr. Obama for adopting right-wing talking points about a Social Security “crisis.” Now he’s echoing right-wing talking points on health care.

What seems to have happened is that Mr. Obama’s caution, his reluctance to stake out a clearly partisan position, led him to propose a relatively weak, incomplete health care plan. Although he declared, in his speech announcing the plan, that “my plan begins by covering every American,” it didn’t — and he shied away from doing what was necessary to make his claim true.

-Krugman

Well he’s skipped enough key domestic votes, or wasn’t around to voice opposition to action in foreign policy, that he thinks previous silence or ambiguity equals siding against mistakes in both, retroactively.

He’s confusing ball four with a strikeout. you don’t take pitches down two strikes.

Now, in the effort to defend his plan’s weakness, he’s attacking his Democratic opponents from the right — and in so doing giving aid and comfort to the enemies of reform.

-pk

It’s basically taking up the opposing banner or anti-reform, or even of radicals, when the previous programs that did work(EPA)were gutted. Having programs that were developing better results(funding structures or domestic programs for some educational and health care models, fitting smaller scales of the most needed demographics) were simply completely disbanded.

See also some of the actual Medicare or Champus schedules for medicine, items that were radically altered during the Frist pork era and made exhorbitantly higher in terms of pricing…

There’s some programs that were working(mostly in hard data realms like wildlife management, watershed and forestry zone regulation, levee maintenance included, and even human service domestic programs implemented on smaller scales because the big money has always opposed universal coverage). Reviewing those programs’ track records could help them be fast tracked to renewal or modeled for larger enrollment when the cost benefit analysis bears out better results, than comparative wholesale deregulation or radical implementation of the libertarian schemes we’ve seen Bushco. birth forward.

The best model we have right now to prove that the Libertarian motif is a failure lies in Iraq, or the port city of New Orleans. Giveaways to corporations and contractors, free enterprise without structure run amok, a lack of oversight that parallels the breakdown of law and order that war or disaster brought along… babies drowned in the bathwater.

Mission Accomplished.

If Obama really wants to unite America he needs to help those in need the most at NOLA. It’s hard to do that and stand by the neocons advising him. Their policies don’t connect with that aspect of American experience, or the greater world community.

Instead let’s stay at the section reserved for Country Club Democrats and their Republican cohorts. Putt for par, play it safe, get your drinks comped after the back nine…

It’s getting more obvious that ANY Democratic candidate for president will be better than ANY Republican nominee. I hope it is someone who can stand up to the monsters. After the torture, domestic spying, habeus restrictions, endless corruption, murders, and lies of this gang, I would be happy with some old-fashioned legal standards.
I was reminded last night of another candidate in 1968 who said, “I’ve upped my standards. Now up yours!” Pat Paulsen

I swear, I am so waiting to hear that O’Reilly is pulled off the FOX set by the guys in white suits.
The man is an absolutely salivating nutbag, socio-path!

Rupert understands depravity. Gibson and O’Reilly are basically Springeresque spectacles packaged as news and commentary – with the hosts as the freaks.

The true fans of the abovementioned do not have the wattage to be high earners. I suspect the audience their advertisers want are the folks who tune in to be outraged/offended.

Could be wrong. Who sponsors these assholes?

murder- krugman is practicly a socialist and certainly not a historian. If Obama is pissing him off that is excellent for his chances and for our country shuold he be elected.

“The best model we have right now to prove that the Libertarian motif is a failure lies in Iraq”

virtually every single libertarian was against the iraq war. many many democrats were for it.

” the greater world community.”

lol
speaking of spending:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/armentano-d/armentano11.html

^good succinct article describing the possiblility of a recession next year and how and why it could happen. Bottom line: military spending is bankrupting our country.

Don’t hold you’re breath. He’s all they’ve got, besides trussed up weathermen.

But “you don’t need a weatherman to know which way he wind blows.”

It’s not true that virtually every libertarian was against the war on Iraq…L. Peikoff, fer starters…jeeezzz! He’s only the standard bearer!

Why?

OLYMPIA — Storm victims seeking government help to repair or replace homes damaged by this week’s storm remained in limbo Friday, waiting for President Bush to declare the affected counties a disaster area.

It’s not clear how long that will take.

Gov. Christine Gregoire on Thursday asked Bush and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to declare a disaster emergency in hard-hit Lewis and Grays Harbor counties, where flooding damaged hundreds of homes and businesses and closed Interstate 5 for three days.

More counties also suffering from the high winds and drenching rains may be added later.

At the time of the request, Gregoire said, “I can’t tell you how long it will take, but I have a commitment from the head of FEMA … that it will be expedited.”

On Friday, both the governor’s office and the state Emergency Management Division said they still weren’t sure when the federal government will act. FEMA officials on Friday wouldn’t make a prediction, either.

“I’ve seen them take a week, and I’ve seen them take a month,” FEMA spokesman Mike Howard said.

Maj. Gen. Timothy Lowenberg, director of the state military department, said in an e-mail that Bush recently has approved requests from five governors within 48 hours. … ALL.

FYI:

Obama & Oprah in Iowa
On Saturday, Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) campaigns with talk show host Oprah Winfrey and Michelle Obama in Des Moines, IA. Following this event, we open our phone lines to get your reaction. Oprah will also be campaigning for Obama this weekend in New Hampshire and South Carolina.
SAT., C-SPAN, 4:30PM E

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/12/08/clinton_makes_campaign_a_family_business/

AP’s Mike Glover tells us what we need to know.

Her husband was focusing heavily on college campuses in next week’s trip, targeting a group that Obama has worked hard. Obama has made a concerted effort to increase the number of young people showing up for caucuses while Clinton has sought to bolster the number of women supporters show up.

She has prepared a slick video featuring her husband and former Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack seeking to “demystify” the Iowa caucus process, and that video is now an opening staple of her campaign as she begins focusing on crucial turnout efforts,

In her speech, Clinton said her mother would accompany her throughout the weekend. Dorothy Rodham did not speak, and was assisted from the stage after being introduced.

Slick video? Her husband who will remain nameless?

From “Not Feeling the Oprah Love“:

… “If you can build a school in South Africa, build one in South Carolina,” Linda Dogan, a member of the City Council in Spartanburg, said on the conference call, which was organized by the Edwards campaign.

The stated purpose of the call was for several prominent African-Americans who support Mr. Edwards to discuss the candidate’s “plan for opportunity.” They said that Mr. Edwards was emphasizing issues like poverty and education, that he was paying attention to rural areas and to the criminal justice system, that he had a “Southern strategy” and that he could win. …

Ms. Dogan said that as a black woman, Ms. Winfrey’s visit “doesn’t mean anything to me” if she is not going to deal with local issues. “It makes me a little ill,” she said, noting that Ms. Winfrey is extremely wealthy. “Oprah coming here means absolutely nothing to me unless she’s going to do something for South Carolina,” she said. …

Tyrone Freeman, president of the United Long Term Care Workers West, of the Service Employees International Union, suggested that Ms. Winfrey was the only way to get the attention of the news media, which, he said, had been “unjust” by not covering the important issues that Mr. Edwards is raising. “All of us would do this call every week,” he said. “It’s only now because of Oprah we can get your attention.”

The campaign officials on the call were asked whether they agreed with Ms. Dogan’s views. Ms. Dogan said she was speaking for herself. No one from the campaign responded and the conference call was ended.

Shortly thereafter, Teresa Wells, a spokeswoman in South Carolina for the Edwards campaign, called The Caucus to say that Ms. Dogan was speaking only for herself.

“We welcome Oprah to South Carolina, but people in South Carolina are dealing with real issues, like poverty, lack of health care, mill closings, a 50-percent high school dropout rate, and we think people will vote for John Edwards’s policies over Barack Obama’s friends,” Ms. Wells said.

She added that the conference call was held in part because some of Mr. Edwards’s top African-American endorsers are frustrated when they see the news media portray the campaign as “a two-person race for the African-American vote and we’re not in it.” She said that on the ground they see blacks supporting Mr. Edwards, but that is not conveyed by the media.

I’m backing Hillary Clinton, but I’d support John Edwards long before I’d consider Obama, who is unsubstantive on the issues, and seems to “float” above — as evidenced in his long history of avoiding votes (in both the Illinois state senate and U.S. Senate) on controversial issues.

The people of Iowa will realize by the caucus on January 3 that Obama may impress at first blush but isn’t ready, from day one, to assume a presidency. And that he’d dance around the tough issues. He makes a great speech about every three or four years, and that is that.

You can’t make a decisive, great president if your history is voting “Present” rather than “Aye” or “Nay” on too many votes in the state senate.

GENERAL BATISTE CHANGES HIS MIND.

From the Washington Post:

“First, the United States must be successful in the fight against worldwide Islamic extremism. We have seen this ruthless enemy firsthand, and its global ambitions are undeniable. This struggle, the Long War, will probably take decades to prosecute. Failure is not an option.
Second, whether or not we like it, Iraq is central to that fight. We cannot walk away from our strategic interests in the region. Iraq cannot become a staging ground for Islamic extremism or be dominated by other powers in the region, such as Iran and Syria. A premature or precipitous withdrawal from Iraq, without the requisite stability and security, is likely to cause the violence there — which has decreased substantially but is still present — to cascade into an even larger humanitarian crisis.

Third, the counterinsurgency campaign led by Gen. David Petraeus is the correct approach in Iraq. It is showing promise of success and, if continued, will provide the Iraqi government the opportunities it desperately needs to stabilize its country. Ultimately, however, these military gains must be cemented with regional and global diplomacy, political reconciliation, and economic recovery — tools yet sufficiently utilized. Today’s tactical gains in Iraq — while a necessary pre-condition for political reconciliation — will crumble without a deliberate and comprehensive strategy.

Oprah gave a pretty good speech — generalities but well-written.

Now Obama has totally lost all of the momentum that she gave him. He is SO lame. It’s like he is embarrassed by the event. He doesn’t know what to say.

Democrat Gov? Don’t hold your breath….What’s been going on at the cleanup of Hanford?

UPDATE – 01:12 PM
President declares flooding a disaster
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004060772_webfloodmain08.html

Canis lupus: will crumble without a deliberate and comprehensive strategy.

To quote Sting..”There is no political solution.”…Consider the cultural viscosity of iraq. Seems more like the contents of a lava lamp than anything cohesive…other than most folks don’t like being occupied…

So I ask again. Are we a nation of laws or men? If having to choose between the Constitution or POTUS which one will it be. There is not much time left. Choose.

How do follows Opera’s act? I’ve played warm up gig’s and it is real rare you can upstage someone…

gen batiste has been imbibing the same red colored brain reducing stuff gates has. too much time in the beltway/ green zone

I can play a killer piano, but can’t type, go figure.

Gee, isn’t that exactly what Osama Bin Forgotten sed he would do.

Taylor Marsh took up the cause in addressing Obama’s oratorical rgetoric against Democratic platofrms on domestic policy:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/barack-obamas-progressiv_b_75933.html

No Obama supports can deny that he is not using right wing talking points on planks of classic Democratic policy.

He already took up Republican talking points on Social Security, now he’s doing the same with health care proposals…

Lie-bertarians have yet to demonstrate that their policy for lack of regulation is correct.

Why can’t they refuse to use public roads, to prove that the market would solve the problem of access for itself?

What about opposing all forms of diaster relief?

What about an end to taxation altogether?

As for war votes, there never was one. There was an AUMF that was not followed on(requiring coalition and UN reviews), the conflict started days ahead of schedule because oil well fires that Bechtel and Halliburton were liable for had to put out.

By the way, we’re having recession right now. The numbers have been tweaked to not reflect net comparative growth, net job enrollment, population growth. Models used refuse to anticipate rising costs in health care and fuel prices. Wages have also decreased as well and net personal savings are negative. The market has been propped on a housing bubble that is overvalued, ignores scale depreciation, and doesn’t reflect asset claims on bad credit that underwirte the entire house of cards.

Where are we now, to where we previously were, is the standard to apply. America is losing ground.

In fact we already had a post tax cut recession going nito 9-11.

The growth period was slowed or negative for three months straight until a massive input of public cash was used to jumpstart things like Homeland Security and ramp up defense appropriations bailed out the last half of September…

Defense appropriations were enver included in American budgetsa to emasure economic productivty until Dick Cheney was Sec. of Defense for papa Bush.

That’s why he says deficits don’t matter…

Take out those numbers in the overall economic picture and we’re way down the growth scale, the middling numbers we have would go under…

Defense appropriations were never included in American budgets to measure economic productivity until Dick Cheney was Sec. of Defense for papa Bush.

That’s why he says deficits don’t matter…

Take out those numbers in the overall economic picture and we’re way down the growth scale, the middling numbers we have would go under…

apologies for typos off the first post, multitasking isn’t going well at this time…

Apparantly one of the concerns is we’re already in a recession, maybe headed to a depression, but we should increase taxes? And this is a “progressive” talking point? Right, a big tax hike for the children! What a rip off. About 95% of kids just need innoculations & occassionally minor medical but we should poney up billions to the insurance giants? Billions for care not needed or received. It would be cheaper to just pay for the kid’s vacinations & guarentee we’ll cover the costs of catastrophic care beyond a 10k deductable. ( Which leaves their parents on the hook for the 1st 10k of catastrophic care.) Medical care wouldn’t be escalating 20-30% a yr if it were controlled. Gone are the days when you could get something simple taken care of without being subjected to $1000′s of tests. It’s a racket, a hose job. What’s next? Paying the liability insurance for all those poor multi millionaire doctors?

& remember really poor kids are already 100% covered under Medicaid. So what’s up with the billions to the insurance giants for middle class kids? My cynical best guess–a bailout for the insurers, who I wouldn’t be suprised are up to their ears in “investing” in the sub prime slime, like debt backed securities.

Quote from Charley Reese…

The future grows dark for the United States. We have a bad administration that is corrupt, secretive, incompetent and disdainful of liberty. We have a press that for the most part cannot distinguish news from celebrity gossip. We have an education system that is manufacturing functional illiterates. We have a public that seemingly believes the only things worthwhile in life are entertainment and consumption.

pulled off isn’t good enough for me…
I’m waiting for them to find O’Reilly in a hotel with a gerbil in his ass praying to Mecca and swearing his allegiance to OBL while simultaneously snorting Cocaine off the bathroom floor.

did i mention i hate this fuck?

Libertarians are a joke.

“Civil Libertarianism” is just liberalism.

Late in 2005 Randi Rhodes played a “books on tape” of O’Reilly reading a “detective” novel he wrote….I have never laughed so hard in years, as I listened to his “detective” share a crackpipe with some whores….and so much more.
You could hear in his voice how bad he was jonesin….
Why he is still on the air speaks volumnes about how utterly bizarre the MSM topology has become..
The boy from Levittown is pure yellow snow.

mr murder- classic democratic stances? bill clinton is the one who said “the era of big government is over”.

privitizing roads isn’t a priority for most libertarians thuogh it is an interesting idea that could result in roads that are much better maintainted. There is some writing on the subject I doubt you have read.

I don’t know about disaster relief either. FEMA pretty much blew it when push came to shove did they not? People give freely to the Red Cross and other charities. I really doubt there is less beaurocracy in FEMA or even the red cross than there is in, say, the Salvation army, the CEO of which makes i think barely 100,000 a year. I have no problem with disaster relief at the governmetn level either, but most of our 3 trillion dollar a year budget doesn’t go toward that or much of anything you or I care abuot.

it goes to aid to countries that hate us, subsidizing things we don’t want or use and the beaurocracy to run all that stuff.

I agree on all the recession stuff. tax cuts are pointless if they aren’t met with spending cuts. all it means is you are either borrowing or debasing the currencies, both of which BUsh has done to the hilt. But if you look at the Laffer curve, there is a clear point at which people are simply not going to be motivated to work if they are taxed to high. 70-90 percent taxation. how hard would you work if you knew you were going to keep 1/10 of what you earned?

and yes i am in favor of eliminating income tax. we pay plenty of other taxes. look at the word: tax. it’s taxing. it’s negative.

Do you have an audio? Would love to hear you play.

Nothing published, I will see what I can do.

Sorry Lester. That’s just nutty, and knee jerk.

People’s “motivations to work” are none of your business.

Big government, or small government isn’t the issue…never was…it’s about the right size government, and the right size government expands and contracts in order to meet the needs of it’s people.

lester, according to the Washington based Tax Foundation 41% of the US population pays no taxes to the IRS, none, zero, zip. The thing that scares me the most about Obama is Soros is backing him, aka Mr Mixed economy. Uncle George Soros knows what’s best for the peeons now that his billions are protected. I’m not an economist, however I’m really concerned, how will we get out from under this hudge debt that keeps compounding? You can only cut or modify so many services until people who aren’t criminals by nature will start doing desperate things. I guess it’s going to get interesting.

mudkitty- “People’s “motivations to work” are none of your business.”

that is nonsenical. I wasn’t saying I wanted to know anyones motivation. I was saying that people are less inclined to want to work if they are going to be taxed at a unreasonably high rate. So someone who is making 200,000 dollars a year and has an oppurtunity to start some business that will create jobs is not going to do it if yuo are going to tax him 70 or as we once had 90% for that. That is the prediction that was proven by data in what is called the Laffer Curve. if you were to tax that additional earnings at a regular rate the business would be more likely to exist. get it?

justsomeone- no we pay TONS of taxes, income tax is just one. everytime you buy anything or do anything in this country it is taxed. if you smokecigaretts you are taxed like 100 percent or more for it. gasoline tax, etc. We get like 1/3 of our revenue from income tax. the idea that poor people aren’t paying their share isn’t true.

we have a spending problem. we have taxed, borrowed and debased the currecy to the absolute limit and the politicians still want more.

Mudkitty (again)- the way I would describe it is we don’t need a nutritionist, we need a dietician. the democrats seem to think that if we spend money over here instead of over there everything will be okay. at this moment that is not true. there were times when it was relatively true but now is not one of them.

we are 11 trillion pounds over weight

Mr Murder, on a side issue, I look at it like this. There is an inkling of a chance that America is going to have its first black president. He is now being “groomed”. We know Mrs Clinton is a safe pair of hands.

If I voted, I’d vote for Paul, who actually seems to have integrity. However, perhaps that’s because he’s not going to be ellected.

I’m afraid I am not sure it is just the males, Susan. The puritan zealot base can be found in man woman & child. We have similar interest rate rise games being played here is Australia.

I am glad I bought gold!

thinker- “I am glad I bought gold!”

hell yeah you are

Bullshit. You were saying that (that it is your business.)

Just making 200 grand a year is worth working for, especially if you have a family. What the fuck could you even be talking about…? (But it’s still none of your business.)

What is our business is the business of government.

The Laffer Curve is a laugh.

If you want a balanced budget, vote democratic. Name one single solitary time any Republican any where in this previous century, ever balanced a budget.

The only good gold is during epidemic wars is as a border exchange.