Comments on: Are Americans Really “Better Than That?” http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/ Thu, 24 May 2012 06:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Bobby Churchill http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-438928 Bobby Churchill Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:12:08 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-438928 <a href="http://www.kothi.com" rel="nofollow"><b>Kothi.com - The Asian Property Portal</b></a> Kothi.com – The Asian Property Portal

]]> By: el paso texas real estate http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-434253 el paso texas real estate Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:09:35 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-434253 <strong>el paso texas real estate</strong> Now is the time to invest in US property, Don't abandon it, invest in it. el paso texas real estate

Now is the time to invest in US property, Don’t abandon it, invest in it.

]]> By: Miltiades http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-132953 Miltiades Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:38:50 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-132953 Interesting... Interesting…

]]> By: The Citizen » Blog Archive » Tortur http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-83113 The Citizen » Blog Archive » Tortur Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:54:47 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-83113 [...] tortur i øvrigt har Ray McGovern en længere klamamse på No Quarter, som absolut er værd at læse. Samme sted spørger værten Larry Johnson, hvordan det kan være, [...] [...] tortur i øvrigt har Ray McGovern en længere klamamse på No Quarter, som absolut er værd at læse. Samme sted spørger værten Larry Johnson, hvordan det kan være, [...]

]]> By: CK http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-82471 CK Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:55:07 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-82471 "New Jersey just abolished the Death Penalty" True. "Even though southerners love the death penalty," Some support it, some don't support it. New Jersey is a sovereign state of course and has the constitutional right to set its own penalties for crimes ( unless of course the FedGov steps in and stifles or usurpts them.) "there has always been more crime in the south." Any proof to be offered for this assertion? Per capita, racial distribution of victims and perpetrators, time frame, anything at all? The "law" as it is practiced in the USA is about retribution and punishment; the law is not about justice or restoration or deterence. The "law" is an interpretive performance art backed up by armed agents with a vested interest in extending the performance. “New Jersey just abolished the Death Penalty” True.
“Even though southerners love the death penalty,” Some support it, some don’t support it. New Jersey is a sovereign state of course and has the constitutional right to set its own penalties for crimes ( unless of course the FedGov steps in and stifles or usurpts them.)
“there has always been more crime in the south.” Any proof to be offered for this assertion? Per capita, racial distribution of victims and perpetrators,
time frame, anything at all?
The “law” as it is practiced in the USA is about retribution and punishment; the law is not about justice or restoration or deterence. The “law” is an interpretive performance art backed up by armed agents with a vested interest in extending the performance.

]]> By: Centrocitta http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-82375 Centrocitta Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:31:37 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-82375 New Jersey just abolished the Death Penalty. Even though southerners love the death penalty, there has always been more crime in the south. This proves that their uneducated, racist, vindictive, war mongering mentalities just won't allow them to understand that the death penalty is not a deterrent. New Jersey just abolished the Death Penalty. Even though southerners love the death penalty, there has always been more crime in the south. This proves that their uneducated, racist, vindictive, war mongering mentalities just won’t allow them to understand that the death penalty is not a deterrent.

]]> By: CK http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-82263 CK Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:03:59 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-82263 No congressional or constitutional procedure was necessary for any state to leave the United States. The United States at the time was a voluntary aggregation of separate states. The threat of secession was used by many of the Union states prior to the War of Northern Aggression. Congressional approval was only necessary for new accretions to the existing number of states. It was to correct a flaw in the Articles of Confederation relating to the admittance of new states that the constitutional convention was called. The election of Lincoln, a railroad lobbyist and lawyer and confirmed and committed high tariff advocate was the last straw for the Southern agricultural states. The benefecience of the Northern States towards their enslaved southern black brethern would of course have drained the entire black population from the Southern states to Canada where all the underground railroads had their final exit. ( The labouring classes in the North had no desire to add a large supply of newly available and low cost labour ) The southern agriculturalists bereft of their very expensive slave labour ( slaves don't pay for their food clothing shelter etc. One of the aspects of slavery is that the slave owner bears the total cost of upkeep for all his field slaves and all his house slaves) would have had to industrialize and mechanize much faster ... shall we continue our varied alternative history fictions? No congressional or constitutional procedure was necessary for any state to leave the United States. The United States at the time was a voluntary aggregation of separate states. The threat of secession was used by many of the Union states prior to the War of Northern Aggression. Congressional approval was only necessary for new accretions to the existing number of states. It was to correct a flaw in the Articles of Confederation relating to the admittance of new states that the constitutional convention was called.
The election of Lincoln, a railroad lobbyist and lawyer and confirmed and committed high tariff advocate was the last straw for the Southern agricultural states. The benefecience of the Northern States towards their enslaved southern black brethern would of course have drained the entire black population from the Southern states to Canada where all the underground railroads had their final exit. ( The labouring classes in the North had no desire to add a large supply of newly available and low cost labour ) The southern agriculturalists bereft of their very expensive slave labour ( slaves don’t pay for their food clothing shelter etc. One of the aspects of slavery is that the slave owner bears the total cost of upkeep for all his field slaves and all his house slaves) would have had to industrialize and mechanize much faster … shall we continue our varied alternative history fictions?

]]> By: camera guy http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-82230 camera guy Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:46:28 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-82230 <blockquote>The south left the union peacefully.</blockquote> By what Congressional vote what that ratified, exactly? Personally, I wish the South had not been allowed to rejoin the United States afterwards. No Gingrich, no Lott, no Thurmond, it's all starting to sound pretty good, actually, and while the idea of a large, largely semiliterate Third World nation on a much longer southern border is not that appealing, we'd have found a way to make things work without you.

The south left the union peacefully.

By what Congressional vote what that ratified, exactly?

Personally, I wish the South had not been allowed to rejoin the United States afterwards. No Gingrich, no Lott, no Thurmond, it’s all starting to sound pretty good, actually, and while the idea of a large, largely semiliterate Third World nation on a much longer southern border is not that appealing, we’d have found a way to make things work without you.

]]> By: Mr.Murder http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-82212 Mr.Murder Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:54:39 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-82212 Thanks, Kathleen. It isn't about the name it's about the message. Teddy set the standard for what the GOP should aim, he left the party and ran against the Repub Nominee as a Progressive after the GOP kicked him out over being a Trustbuster. Thanks, Kathleen.

It isn’t about the name it’s about the message.

Teddy set the standard for what the GOP should aim, he left the party and ran against the Repub Nominee as a Progressive after the GOP kicked him out over being a Trustbuster.

]]> By: CK http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81994 CK Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:16:15 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81994 The south left the union peacefully. The north kept permanent bases in the south over the south's peaceful requests that the bases be removed or sold. The North forced the issue. Is it necessary to reiterate that Lincoln was against Free Blacks being allowed to become citizens of Illinois when he was in office there? Is it necessary to remember that it was Lincoln who attempted to return the blacks to Africa before and during the war? When the Union armies started having difficulty enslaving more conscripts, then the huge moral issue of slavery became the Union dog whistle note to whip up the base. To the FedGov leaders at the time, the slavery issue was exactly the same as the export democracy issue is to the fedgov leaders today. Guaranteed dogwhistle to whip up the fundy jingos. Except when the wrong people get elected ( hezbullah, hamas ...) then exporting democracy has to be amended. As to the North's dedication to black emancipation -- Jim Crow ring a bell? And as I said in my initial post, water torture probably goes back to pre-roman times. In your response you called me a liar, a hogwasher and a neo-confederate. I believe you to be incorrect on two of the three. In my youth I did slop and sometimes hose down hogs. The south left the union peacefully. The north kept permanent bases in the south over the south’s peaceful requests that the bases be removed or sold. The North forced the issue. Is it necessary to reiterate that Lincoln was against Free Blacks being allowed to become citizens of Illinois when he was in office there? Is it necessary to remember that it was Lincoln who attempted to return the blacks to Africa before and during the war? When the Union armies started having difficulty enslaving more conscripts, then the huge moral issue of slavery became the Union dog whistle note to whip up the base.
To the FedGov leaders at the time, the slavery issue was exactly the same as the export democracy issue is to the fedgov leaders today. Guaranteed dogwhistle to whip up the fundy jingos. Except when the wrong people get elected ( hezbullah, hamas …) then exporting democracy has to be amended. As to the North’s dedication to black emancipation — Jim Crow ring a bell?
And as I said in my initial post, water torture probably goes back to pre-roman times.

In your response you called me a liar, a hogwasher and a neo-confederate. I believe you to be incorrect on two of the three.
In my youth I did slop and sometimes hose down hogs.

]]> By: ybnormal http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81969 ybnormal Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:56:12 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81969 Are Americans Really "Better Than That?" - a fable story of human nature; The Frog and the Scorpion A frog was getting ready to cross a river, when he was approached by a scorpion who asked if he could hitch a ride, because he couldn't swim. The frog said, "No way! It's my nature to be trusting and generous, but you'll sting me and I'll drown". The scorpion said, "I most certainly will not sting you, because then I will drown as well." This sounded reasonable, so the trusting generous frog let the scorpion climb on his back for a ride to swim across the river. Halfway across, the scorpion stung the frog. "What did you do that for, now both of us are going to drown!" the frog exclaimed. "I couldn't help it. I'm a scorpion, and it's in my nature" he replied. "But you promised it was not in your best interest" the frog complained, while starting to choke on water. Above the rising water, the scorpion said, "Well, you knew I was a scorpion when you met me." Quiz time: Out of the following, who plays the role of the frog, and who plays the scorpion? George Bush, Dick Cheney, Adolph Hitler, Jane Harman, Nancy Pelosi, Silvestre Reyes, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern, Bill Moyers, the writers of the TV show '24', me as I write this, and finally, you yourself the reader? Answer: Because of our human nature, any of us can play either role. In fact, all of us are both the frog and the scorpion in different ways at different times. SO WHAT? Because so many people actually believe that "it can't happen here", that's so what. In fact, self-righteousness is a blindness to ourselves. Still, some will read this and think, "but I myself really am better than that. Surely I know myself enough to know at least that much." Really? Are you sure about that? Consider something that many researchers in psychology will tell you, based on poll results. Read carefully. A majority of people believe that their own moral standards are better than those of a majority of other people. One problem; it can't possibly be true because it's a mathmatical impossibility. Or put another way, beware of your own self-righteousness, because it's in your nature. Our ancestors fought a revolution against an imperialist king who in turn was descended from people who forged the Magna Carta. Nazis were enabled not only by militant authoritarians, but also by priests, mayors, news reporters, store owners, farmers, factory workers and basically a lot of other people just like you and me. How many in October 2001 wished they could squeeze Osama bin Laden's neck until his head exploded? Following that, how many thought the cashier at 7-11 looked a lot like Osama bin Laden? If you answered yes to that last question, who was the victor and who was the loser, you or Osama bin Laden? More to the point of torture; who's the victor and whose the loser, the one who extracts intelligence by torturing, the subject of the intelligence, or all the rest of us? Final quiz question: It's likely that at times, we've already met the scorpion in ourselves. Did we recognize him? Are we sure we know which times we did not recognize him? Answer: Sooner or later the truth will find us; so we might as well be looking for it. Are Americans Really “Better Than That?”
- a fable story of human nature; The Frog and the Scorpion

A frog was getting ready to cross a river, when he was approached by a scorpion who asked if he could hitch a ride, because he couldn’t swim. The frog said, “No way! It’s my nature to be trusting and generous, but you’ll sting me and I’ll drown”. The scorpion said, “I most certainly will not sting you, because then I will drown as well.”

This sounded reasonable, so the trusting generous frog let the scorpion climb on his back for a ride to swim across the river. Halfway across, the scorpion stung the frog.

“What did you do that for, now both of us are going to drown!” the frog exclaimed. “I couldn’t help it. I’m a scorpion, and it’s in my nature” he replied. “But you promised it was not in your best interest” the frog complained, while starting to choke on water. Above the rising water, the scorpion said, “Well, you knew I was a scorpion when you met me.”

Quiz time:
Out of the following, who plays the role of the frog, and who plays the scorpion? George Bush, Dick Cheney, Adolph Hitler, Jane Harman, Nancy Pelosi, Silvestre Reyes, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern, Bill Moyers, the writers of the TV show ’24′, me as I write this, and finally, you yourself the reader?

Answer:
Because of our human nature, any of us can play either role. In fact, all of us are both the frog and the scorpion in different ways at different times.

SO WHAT?

Because so many people actually believe that “it can’t happen here”, that’s so what. In fact, self-righteousness is a blindness to ourselves.

Still, some will read this and think, “but I myself really am better than that. Surely I know myself enough to know at least that much.” Really? Are you sure about that? Consider something that many researchers in psychology will tell you, based on poll results. Read carefully. A majority of people believe that their own moral standards are better than those of a majority of other people. One problem; it can’t possibly be true because it’s a mathmatical impossibility. Or put another way, beware of your own self-righteousness, because it’s in your nature.

Our ancestors fought a revolution against an imperialist king who in turn was descended from people who forged the Magna Carta. Nazis were enabled not only by militant authoritarians, but also by priests, mayors, news reporters, store owners, farmers, factory workers and basically a lot of other people just like you and me.

How many in October 2001 wished they could squeeze Osama bin Laden’s neck until his head exploded? Following that, how many thought the cashier at 7-11 looked a lot like Osama bin Laden? If you answered yes to that last question, who was the victor and who was the loser, you or Osama bin Laden? More to the point of torture; who’s the victor and whose the loser, the one who extracts intelligence by torturing, the subject of the intelligence, or all the rest of us?

Final quiz question:
It’s likely that at times, we’ve already met the scorpion in ourselves. Did we recognize him? Are we sure we know which times we did not recognize him?
Answer:
Sooner or later the truth will find us; so we might as well be looking for it.

]]> By: TeakWoodKite http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81964 TeakWoodKite Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:42:16 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81964 Oracle: <em>And now I read that biometrics are being used in Iraq to identify “suspects” who may be summarily executed on the spot, as per a Bush/Cheney directive, with this biometric information being stored in some data-mining facility (private contractor?) in West Virginia</em> What and where are you reading this? Oracle:

And now I read that biometrics are being used in Iraq to identify “suspects” who may be summarily executed on the spot, as per a Bush/Cheney directive, with this biometric information being stored in some data-mining facility (private contractor?) in West Virginia

What and where are you reading this?

]]> By: The Oracle http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81946 The Oracle Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:04:25 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81946 The American Dream has been turned into a Fascist Nightmare...deliberately, premeditatively. And per Bush's claims in his Sep. 6, 2006 address, wasn't this speech after BushCo had exposed the Khan operation in Pakistan, an operation involving British/Pakistani intelligence wherein an al Qaeda computer geek was cooperating in identifying and locating suspected al Qaeda operatives via email messages (and possibly cell phone communications)? In other words, while Bush was touting the value of torture on Sep. 6, 2006 in locating suspected al Qaeda terrorists, will we ever know whether it was Khan's cooperation that actually exposed and led to the capture of some of the al Qaeda operatives mentioned in Bush's address? I personally do not trust anything Bush or his mouthpieces say...because everything they say and do screams FASCISM. And now I read that biometrics are being used in Iraq to identify "suspects" who may be summarily executed on the spot, as per a Bush/Cheney directive, with this biometric information being stored in some data-mining facility (private contractor?) in West Virginia. Are these biometric procedures already being used inside the United States? Aimed at whom? Anyone that disagrees with the Fascist policies of the Bush/Cheney administration? I'm not amused. I served in the U.S. Air Force. I swore an oath (which I still honor) to uphold and defend our Constitution, our democracy, from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. And fascism, no matter what degree is advocated or practiced, is definitely antithetical to any democracy, to any freedom-loving society. The American Dream has been turned into a Fascist Nightmare…deliberately, premeditatively.

And per Bush’s claims in his Sep. 6, 2006 address, wasn’t this speech after BushCo had exposed the Khan operation in Pakistan, an operation involving British/Pakistani intelligence wherein an al Qaeda computer geek was cooperating in identifying and locating suspected al Qaeda operatives via email messages (and possibly cell phone communications)?

In other words, while Bush was touting the value of torture on Sep. 6, 2006 in locating suspected al Qaeda terrorists, will we ever know whether it was Khan’s cooperation that actually exposed and led to the capture of some of the al Qaeda operatives mentioned in Bush’s address?

I personally do not trust anything Bush or his mouthpieces say…because everything they say and do screams FASCISM.

And now I read that biometrics are being used in Iraq to identify “suspects” who may be summarily executed on the spot, as per a Bush/Cheney directive, with this biometric information being stored in some data-mining facility (private contractor?) in West Virginia. Are these biometric procedures already being used inside the United States? Aimed at whom? Anyone that disagrees with the Fascist policies of the Bush/Cheney administration?

I’m not amused. I served in the U.S. Air Force. I swore an oath (which I still honor) to uphold and defend our Constitution, our democracy, from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. And fascism, no matter what degree is advocated or practiced, is definitely antithetical to any democracy, to any freedom-loving society.

]]> By: Centrocitta http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81938 Centrocitta Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:45:08 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81938 Lazy southerners were drunked up on Moonshine. That's why they needed slaves. So of course, they thought it was a war of aggression. Lazy southerners were drunked up on Moonshine. That’s why they needed slaves. So of course, they thought it was a war of aggression.

]]> By: mudkitty http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1156/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81928 mudkitty Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:27:03 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/13/are-americans-really-%e2%80%9cbetter-than-that%e2%80%9d/#comment-81928 Bull shit, CK! That just an excuse...the "war of northern aggression." It was a fucking civil war you liar. To say that freeing the slaves is the same, or no different from, the Bush Administration's so-called exportation of "democracy" is just total hogwash! The south, being mostly agrarian, was economically dependent on slavery, and didn't give it up until it was forced to. You are a neo-confederate. And water torture has been around a lot longer than 145 years. Torture is torture, and it's wrong. And so was the south's commitment to slavery. Bull shit, CK! That just an excuse…the “war of northern aggression.” It was a fucking civil war you liar.

To say that freeing the slaves is the same, or no different from, the Bush Administration’s so-called exportation of “democracy” is just total hogwash!

The south, being mostly agrarian, was economically dependent on slavery, and didn’t give it up until it was forced to.

You are a neo-confederate.

And water torture has been around a lot longer than 145 years. Torture is torture, and it’s wrong. And so was the south’s commitment to slavery.

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