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Why Destroy Something No One Has Seen?

By Larry Johnson on December 19, 2007 at 10:33 AM in Current Affairs

Terrific story in today’s NY Times from Messrs. Shane and Mazzetti detailing the fact that at least four White House lawyers were privy to discussions about the fate of the Torture Tapes. As I noted in earlier posts, CIA ops chief, Jose Rodriguez, received clear guidance that he had permission to destroy the tapes.

Curiously, sources for Shane and Mazzetti insist the tapes stayed overseas and never reached CONUS. Really? Then on what basis did the lawyers advising Rodriguez believe the tapes needed to be destroyed. If nobody on this side of the ocean saw them then why the concern? Just asking.

mainsailset

And that question leads to the idea that there could be or could have been more than one copy of the tapes. Cheney’s office safe must be bursting at the seams.
Shirin

LOL! And the White House has issued an outraged denial and demanded a retraction of the story, so it CAN’T POSSIBLY be true.

Can it?
Ron

Just because the physical tapes never made it to CONUS doesn’t mean they weren’t viewed by people in CONUS. After all, it is the information age. As usual, careful consideration of what was said and the strictest interpretation of what they mean is important.

An interesting question for the lawyers out there. Are copies of tapes considered to be the same as the original?
TeakwoodKite

Why is it being leaked by “Senior administration officials”? I know this is a silly question, but have we not seen this pattern before?

Senior administration officials, who asked not to be identified because of an ongoing Justice Department investigation, told the newspaper at least four top White House lawyers took part in discussions with the CIA as to whether the tapes showing violent interrogation techniques should be destroyed.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/12/19/white_house_denies_wider_role_in_cia_tapes/8563/
oldtree

Where are the various tape libraries located? People that torture like to watch torture, do they not?
http://www.petgazette-pets.com OleHippieChick

Fire in the ~~Reichstag~~ EEOB, Cheney’s place.
TeakwoodKite

Isn’t a question of “chain of custody” ?
Michael Lafferty

The initial tactic employed by the White House—and, I say tactic because they appear incapable of formulating a working strategy for anything—is that the tapes were created, stored and destroyed overseas, so there is no controlling US authority.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but as a soldier—to the extent not amplified or otherwise modified by an existing Status of Forces Agreement, the Uniform Code of Military Justice followed me wherever I went. There was no requirement that any offense I might be accused of occurred on ‘US soil’ for there to be jurisdiction established. I would imagine that applicable US statutes and existing Presidential findings, administrative rules and similar guidance would apply to agents no matter where they operated.

Is my assumption incorrect, or are all those high-powered attorneys like David Addington, Alberto Gonzales, Harriet Meyers and others failing a fundamental first year law question?
readerOfTeaLeaves

IANAL, but you may be missing one aspect: were the tapes on physical tape media? or were they digitized?

If on physical media, then there are ways to encode it so that no one can copy — just ask Hollywood. Nevertheless, video > digital transfers happen all the time; you can probably get it at your local camera shop.

If on digital media, there are still ways to protect media (passwords, plus stuff beyond my knowledge level). But digital media is pretty much a “duplicate file” command. So when one is specific in asking about any sort of taping, it might be wise to probe more for precise language regarding the types of storage media used for the information. It may have been reproduced on multiple media, which would give more ‘ass covering room’ for Bu$hCo, but also more risk of dupes out there in the world.

Larry, couldn’t resist clicking over to see whether you had any comments or insights on this latest.
FOTFLMAO.
mainsailset

oldtree-are you referring to Cheney’s desk drawer?
Was the CIA so overfunded that it could fly rendition planes at a minutes’ notice but had to rely on ‘tapes’ for its interrogations? I would have thought Cheney would have had a web cam.
Michael Lafferty

Er, Harriet Miers. Sorry.
Centrocitta

Does Nancy Pelosi own a dress? Or a skirt? When is she going to get rid of those polyester pant-suits? And what’s with all this “Red”? Can’t she tone it down a little and dress like a lady? She’s the speaker of the house, for crying out loud, but she looks like a low-class Turkish woman.
oldtree

I would figure the library to be a server in the white house due to secure traffic requirements, if they did copy a digital record. (If is not really what I would guess on a matter so important to the power retaining it’s power)
It isn’t just email that these judges should be asking for of the records. Older judges may not know the terms to use for such refined searches for evidence either. We have seen that used to obstruct justice a few million times now with the missing email.
Bill Keyes

Slightly off topic……

For all of those of you reading this who still think we live in a democracy please read the following. Or just continue to stick your heads in the sand and pretend that everything is going to be just peachy when the Republicans are still in power this time next year and we are still in Iraq and the economy is even worse then it is today and as the old Jimmy Dean song says…”Another day older and deeper in debt.”

I for one am planning a fast exit to anywhere else that is not a police state.

Police State America

A Look Back And Ahead

By Stephen Lendman

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18918.htm
Shirin

Centrocita, would you mind toning down the racism just a bit? You never know whom you might be offending.
Sometime-CIA-Defender

Don’t laugh…

NPR – Fire at Old Executive Office Building

Thick smoke billowed from the White House compound in the Executive Office Building Wednesday after an apparent electrical fire was triggered near the second-story ceremonial office of Vice President Dick Cheney.

Cheney’s office was damaged by smoke and water from fire hoses, White House spokesman Scott Stanzel said. The vice president was not in the building at the time; he was in the West Wing of the White House with President Bush.
TeakWoodKite

the Constitution is “just a goddamned piece of paper.”

Military Order number 1 ;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011113-27.html

836 of title 10, United States Code;
President may prescribe rules

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=10&sec=836

Executive Order 12958 of April 17,1995.

(h) “Unauthorized disclosure” means a communication or physical transfer of classified information to an unauthorized recipient.

Sec. 1.8. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations.

(a) In no case shall information be classified in order to:

(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;
(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;

(3) restrain competition; or

(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of national security.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/clinton/eo12958.html
http://www.petgazette-pets.com OleHippieChick

I joke, but it ain’t funny. Of course, Vader, like any good Mafia don, was elsewhere, with witnesses.
So what burned, the WH visitor logs due in court this Friday or the rest of the sadistic perverts’ torture porn collection?
GR3

Sure hope the writers strike is over soon. I’d like a bit of leavening with the authoritarianism, please.
Is Canada too close? They have an intelligent conservative in power who might be one of the last of W’s buddies left. A land exit may seem quick, but American law enforcement has gotten extraordinary cooperation from our neighbors lately. (The limit for American tourists is 6 months minus a day.)
I remember spending 1974 on an extended European trip. Watched President Ford’s first speech in a pub in Ireland.
Even if the neocons don’t go without a fight, I have almost no hope for the future of this country. Everyone can recall how poisonous politics became in the ninties. How vicious will the true believers get when they lose power? There is much more antagonism ahead, and possibly armed conflict.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/ Leslie

Bushie lie #3,495,576,013. Bushie-gate #1,589. Bushie crime #94,238 approx.

Why destroy the tapes if Bush doesn’t torture and the administration has done nothing illegal…uh…such as destroying the tapes? Just asking.
TeakWoodKite

Bill Keyes: The artical you posted says it all.

I read recently that The JAG core was being politically harrassed by the White House.
What the historical traditions are in the JAG and the relationship with the executive branch?

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/12/15/white_house_wants_more_control_over_jags/9723/

What I found interesting was the reference to Reagan administration’s “national security emergency” EO 12656 of 1988. Back then in Northern California , C.A.M.P was in the process of running “blackwater” OPS in testing martial law. I would wager that one could connect the dots from to now.
Shirin

Heard this story on the news this morning, and they assured us Cheney was not in the office when the fire occurred. Now, that’s a damned shame!
TeakWoodKite

PS. I think it goes to the heart of the matter when you ” Destroy something no one has seen”