Time for change or do we have to wait for another day?

I keep hearing that a sticking point is where to send the prisoners. I was never clear whether they mean ones who could be released or those who will still be imprisoned. If it is the latter, I could not understand why our maximum security prisons aren’t good enough.
I just now heard a discussion of this on NPR’s Diane Rehm’s Friday international round up. According to the panel it is just that Congressmen don’t want these guys imprisoned in their districts! That makes absolutely no sense. We keep serial killers in our own prisons and I would think most Americans would trust our own prisons before they would trust those in other countries.

Does anyone have good information on this?

My solution………Bring the troops from Gitmo home….last one leaving leaves the gates open…..PRESTO…..Cuba`s population increases by 250.

Now why can`t I work at the State department?

Not only is there ambiguity about where to put the detainees, but what about the prisoners in other camps. Any change there?

And as for these, yes, I’m pleased after reading them.

But what about any overturns related to pro-choice interests that he pandered to? The symbolic day to do so would have been yesterday, and nada…and stem cells…nada..so far.

We’ll see.

Gitmo he is moving ahead with because he received a major backlash for softening on that too.

If Obama wanted his help and bipartisanship, HE DAMNED WELL HAVE DELIVERED ON THAT…which we all know, torture is a big no no with John McCain

I also agree with you/Krugman.

And it looks like the reporters are only starting to see the real Obama.

After Obama tried to use his intimidation tactics on a reporter from Politico, because the reporter didn’t let up after Obama refused to answer the question about…claiming to not hire Lobbyists, but then going ahead and hiring the under secretary of defense to be a Lobbyist from Ratheon.

And , what does he mean transparency…when the reporters aren’t included in the 2nd swearing in….and now not wanting to give the names of senior advisors…that Robert Gibbs claims they should just be referred to as “senior administration officials”…until he turned red faced for being called out by a reporter for now mentioned the person they weren’t supposed to know the name of by first name twice now.

And final capper, that Obama administration is trying to control the media with closing them out, selecting few and hiring their own photographer to hand our pictures THEY WANT USED. All not going well with print and media.

Looks like the only bright part in the Obama administration yesterday was Hillary’s arrival at the State Dept. and getting things moving in a positive not there.

NOTE, not not

Interesting how Obama’s first action as president was placating to the terrorists.
As much as I’m against torture and believe there are several innocents at Gitmo there should be a systematic process for dealing with each suspect in a do process way. Just saying your going to close the place shows a level of weakness and pandering to the left which is not helpful going forward.

There are a few sticky points with this executive order – like no follow up plan as to where to house them and how they will be tried. This is scaring a lot of folks. What really bothered me during the signing “ceremony” was that POTUS had to keep looking at his legal council to get the wording correct on why he was doing this. Tells me he has no real follow up plans and no real conviction as to his executive order. He is not in charge – his advisors are. Bush III

“president was placating to the terrorists.”
how was it placating to the terrorists? Are you going to suggest that Robert Gates is placating to the terrorists? That many other military voices that said it would be wise are placating to the terrorists?

And though the left may be vocal, they aren’t the only ones speaking up.

Truthtelling,
I know you want prosecutions…Wrong!

The war on terrorism or should I say the war against western civilization is in it’s early stages. I know you don’t want to believe that, but the TRUTH is that your way of life will be gone quicker than you can take an exit off of 45 if we lower our guard.

yes, I heard the actual footage, Obama twice had to ask his lawyer what was in the exec order. I don’t know how someone can say they are going to do something and set a time when they don’t have a plan.

As for the terrorists, I say dump them all in the Amazon river and let the pirana’s eat them.

This was what we feared all along, and not even unexpected by some of his supporters, believe it or not, who were all too happy to vote for him anyway.

Some very educated liberals actually said to me —

“oh, he has good judgment, he’ll hire really good people to help him. Congress does everything anyway.”

That is an exact quote.

Isn’t that code for “we know he really doesn’t know what he’s doing but we like him anyhow.”

Hmmm .. this is interesting :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/23/yemen-guantanamo-alqaida

I would say it’s more than a sticky situation !

Well, getting our history back from the Bush twins was good.

Executive Order 13233…..hopefully gone.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Obama_lifts_Bushs_veil_of_secrecy_on_presidential_documents/articleshow/4016290.cms

“Going forward, any time the American people want to know something that I or a former president wants to withhold, we will have to consult with the attorney general and the White House counsel, whose business it is to ensure compliance with the rule of law,” the Washington Times quoted Obama, as saying.

“Information will not be withheld just because I say so. It will be withheld because a separate authority believes my request is well-grounded in the Constitution,” he added. “

well said, seattle

Seriously people, the Gitmo this is nothing but a total PR stunt and nothing more. Obama did nothing to change the basic structure in which Gitmo exists, which is the President still retains the right to declare anybody an “enemy combatant”. That hasn’t changed. Obama can’t put this people on trial because they would get all the benefits of defense and cross examination, putting the whole US military structure on trial.

Oh, and the point about only using methods in the Army manual? Well Dennis Blair told congress that they’ll make changes to the Army manual potentially allowing “new” form of “interogation techniquies”, but they’ll have to keep it a secret of course. How Bush like.

The order also does nothing for the hundreds of “terrorists” we still have locked up indefinitely in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Folks, don’t let Captain Kumbaya bamboozle you. This Gitmo thing is nothing but PR and BS.

So, PBO hasn’t a clue what he was TOLD to sign, huh?

What a crock! Of course Guantanamo should be closed BEFORE a year is up! I would say that ALL the people locked in that horrific place had done NOTHING yet they were grabbed off the street and thrown in a place no living creature should have to endure. This charlatan does as he is told. People who have real experience who have been visiting there and writing firsthand about the people there can tell them how to handle it and close it immediately since it seems the new administration is no more concerned about people suffering than the last one. they are too daft to figure it out.

My first guess is that no one wants it in their back yard (like a nuclear power plant or wind turbine) and who pays for it? Does the state pick up the tab?

benny..How are you?

Interesting how people like us that have traveled the world understand that
There is a world you wish you had
and then there is the world that you actually have to live with.

I agree…I had written on my blog that if they close Gitmo now they can *really* perform their interrogations and tortures in secret, because we won’t have a clue where they are doing it.

Great idea HARP. That would be payback for Castro sending us all his prisoners. I’m sure Castro would be happy to deal with Jihadists in a humane manner.

They should have never let him out of the shallow end of the pool.

But as far as your application to work in the State Dept., I just tried googling HARP + “No Quarter,” and the results were rather alarming, to say the least . . .

Didnt that windbag Murtha say he would take them all?

I wonder does he intend to naturalize them all before bringing them to his district?

Ani, it is bad enough that the educated liberals you speak of have already ‘pardoned’ PBO before he has a chance to screw up.

But the lavish lathering Nancy Pelosi did of PBO on Larry King Wed night was so over-the-top no human could live up to that. Smiling warmly and squinting her eyes to slits she explained to Larry, (not the lavish direct quotes, but the gist) ‘Our new president is a man of great intellect and (blah, blah, blah) vision who will do great things for this country.’

At that point Larry asked her, “Will we ever have a woman as president?” Pelosi said, smiling slightly with no squint, ‘Yes, of course we will. Hillary Clinton made great strides in insuring that will happen. Then she quickly added (with ear-to-ear-smile and squinting to slits again), but, we need to focus on our first AA president and what a glorious accomplishment this is.’

I suppose since she selected him, got the slick company that ran his ‘brilliant’ campaign, she must sell him to the American people because she is going to look like a fool if he doesn’t succeed.

This is classic Obama, and an example of why I don’t much like him.

He can say he is closing Gitmo without actually closing Gitmo or having a realistic plan for doing so.

And people eat it up because he is The One. Words are deeds.

The reporters already knew the real Obama. Don’t fool yourself. They just wanted the big D and saw that he was the one to get in. They wanted anyone, but Hillary. they might have gone Edwards, but knew about his scandal being a turn off with the American people. Odrama could sell the black new hopey-changey shit and from appearances could sell the happy family life. Hillary is a woman and they couldn’t play the happy first family because they are real and there was infidelity there. The reporters wanted the hip, cool, black dude so they could have the dems. They know all of his skeletons and they knew they could keep some stuff quiet, too.

We must never forget the MSM’s role in this. Never. They will see they have created the Frankenstein monster. They figured the ends justified the means though. They’ll find out how dangerous it is to mess with free will, or in this case informed consent of the American Voting Public.

I’m still so disgusted! I am trying to look at some things as good moves, but I still don’t trust Odrama to do any of it responsibly! If you are a medical device salesman, you may know all about tthat device, but you wouldn’t know how to make it work right. For that, you need the specialist. Obama is the medical device salesman in cheif!

He did say that the prison in his district is Minimum Security…seems good enough for any Jihadist.

To make it more accessible the the Left though, I suggest revamping Alcatraz or sending them to the existing San Quentin. Not positive but I think Sirhan is still there. At least, the Dems could check on their getting humane treatment and maybe even set up cookie deliveries.

I predict Castro would immediately, make them citizens of Cuba, then put them on a solid boat for Miami where they would be welcomed and given amnesty.

OK but no Grandma’s chocolate chip.

We cannot be seen as being soft on crime.

Sure, there are some logistical and legal matters to consider, but if you’ve been promising to close down the place for over a year now why don’t you have plans?

I would think a limit on access to classified information,for starters.

And you might add that nobody will be looking, because The Obama is above all suspicion.

Our way of life will be gone because of the way Bush and the enabling Democrats have screwed the American taxpayer with a costly, senseless and illegal war.

How do you know they are all terrorists when they never received a fair trial?

An ungoing question is whether our way of life is most seriously threatened by violent fanatics, or by our sometimes irrational responses to them.

Which inflicted more damage on our nation? The 9/11 attack or our response to it? (I’m thinking here specifically of the consequenes of our invasion and occupation of Iraq: 4,230 American soldiers killed; 98,730 confirmed Iraqi civilian deaths; an expenditure of $600 billion and rising. I question what has been gained by it.)

In addition to lost lives and lost dollars, there’s the matter of what we were becoming. For a while there, it seemed like we were rapidly abandoning some of the fundamental principles that make us who we are. Any semblence of due process went straight out the window. We apparently had secret prisons and secret prisoners. We apparently were setting up a mechanism to hold secret military trials. Considering that torture had become a regretable necessity–a procedure that evidently resulted in a few actual deaths–who knows what else went on? At home, some seemed willing to opt for the imagined safety of what looked a bit like the beginnings of a police state.

Is any of this an exaggeration? I imagine it will all get swept under the carpet. Close scrutiny would be way too uncomfortable.

What’s the point in closing Gitmo, if they are just going to move the prisoners/suspects elsewhere?

Why not try them all, and then imprison those that are guilty, and let those go that are found not guilty? And then close it, or at least staff it with peple that don’t torture.

Closing it, but moving the people elsewhere seems kind of redundant. (am I missing something?)

They must have SOMEthing against these people, if they are there…or no?

Time will show that by situating ourselves in the middle of all future resource wars that the United States will dictate the outcome of said wars.
The Iraq war will be seen by historians as a brilliant strategy for protecting western civilization. The terrorists in the shadows were forced to reveal themselves by confronting the full power of the United states military where they lost.
Iraq which will be rich and pro western prevents terrorists from using their vast infrastructure to produce biological and other weapons.

“but if you’ve been promising to close down the place for over a year now why don’t you have plans?”

“I would think a limit on access to classified information,for starters.”

Or they were just campaign promises to win the far left?

Good post–I am with you.
I will believe (and praise) but only when I see things done in a reasonable and timely manner.

New report: Saudi national released from Gitmo, repatriated to S.Arabia, fled to Yemen. Now #2 in AlQuaeda.

Cynical, but true. I sadly almost take it as a given that he would find some way to outfox the US Government.

Cynic, I agree with everything you say. Some of the comments here make me wonder what are we becoming. Once we stop believing in due process of law for everyone we are no different than China or Russia.

In regard to the Bush administration’s abuses of our Constitution, everything most likely will be swept under the rug. I do not see Obama as the type to do much of anything in this regard. After all, he himself and his Chicago pals have plenty of issues they would rather keep hidden. And didn’t the Democratic Party enable Bush in much of what he did?

“Al Qaeda” or whatever…

I’ve seen articles saying that they can’t be tried in any American court because the evidence against them has been obtained through torture and is inadmissable in our courts. They might be considering military trials, but that would be embarassing worldwide, especially when “we” ignored the Geneva Convention.

Very well put SM, I can’t help but wonder how much different the world would be if Carter hadn’t abandoned the Shaw in Iran. We’re still paying the price for his myopic policies. Like it or not, the world is far better off now because of our efforts and sacrifice in Iraq.

And she plans on being the first female president-if or when-Bo is unsuccessful in becoming President for Life.

I would love all these brilliant people to explain to me how closing Gitmo is going to improve our standing in the world?

I keep hearing this nonsense over and over, exactly who is being held at Gitmo, is it not Muslim radical so why are we wanting to improve out standing with these guys?

When they beheaded Berg and put the video on the internet for the world to see, where they thinking of improving their standing with the USA and the world, when they were putting all these plans in place to bomb places where Americans hang out or work was that to show us how much they cared for us?

Why do we keep thinking that these people really care if we like them or not, maybe when another event happens in the world and Americans get killed by the hundreds some of you will finally wake up and understand what is really going on.

Agree Ani, and don’t you love this Gloria Steinem quote “Despite Obama’s brilliance, he didn’t try to outshine the crowd.” This lovely gem came from her column entitled “Obama, and the Stars” at CNN blogs regarding Obama’s inaugural speech.

Say what? That is educated liberal speak actually which means, to me anyway, that the speech really sucked, it was dull as a burned out lightbulb and Obama didn’t reach for a single star…

I would say that ALL the people locked in that horrific place had done NOTHING yet they were grabbed off the street and thrown in a place no living creature should have to endure.

Get your facts straight. The architect of 9/11 and World Trade Center 1993 is there. Many others who don’t regret killing Americans and promise to continue as soon as possible. There are many techniques other than torture used to obtain information of just who the prisoners are. One report said using female questioners who dressed modestly (long skirts, no skin) and related to them as “Sisters or Mothers”. The idea was to break their stereotype of American women as sluts. They would gain their trust through soft questioning and very careful listening.

thank you

If its not obvious how it would begin to restore our position in the the world, you are probably beyond reason. Also, if you bothered to listen to Larry on CNN yesterday you’d be informed enough you would find the answers to much of your questions.

Off topic but …

Hey Larry and/or Susan,

Dyin to hear your take on Hillarys pick of Senate Majority Leader George J. Mitchell, as a special envoy for the Middle East and former U.N. ambassador Richard Holbrooke.

C’mon folks, you all had to have at least bothered to listen to Larry on CNN yesterday. So many comments are so ill informed despite having the information plastered on this very same blog.

There are bad guys at Gitmo, but there are also many, if not the vast majority, who were most likely turned in for a reward even though they were innocent. The fact is, Gitmo is only one small part of “creative detention facilities”, many of which have been secret. But Gitmo is one of the more high profile places so its closure is an important signal. Those who think the US standing in the world is peachy are in a dangerous bubble. If we want to regain the trust of our allies we must act in accordance to the rule of law otherwise we have no trust. And with no trust it will be harder to tackle the global economic crisis, in addition to combating terrorism.

Since you seem to be one of the brilliant people that know how this will help us let me know, because I sure as hell cant see it.

If Obama and some of you feel this is going to make them love us are some of you willing to put your neck or those of your kids on the line find out? Did an event in India not occur some months ago who were these Muslim radical looking for Chinese, Caribbean, or Latinos?

The were all seeking Americans to kill them, now if that cannot tell some of you that these people and not ones to take a chance with, then am sorry for you keep wishing that giving them tokens of kindness and in return they will shower Americans with Allah ‘s blessing and you will be making a big mistake and putting more Americans at risk than ever before.

It’s not about them, they’re a lost cause. It’s about those who will follow them, their children, and those who have reluctantly resisted their influence.

Every morning people wake up in Baghdad to foreigners walking their streets locked and loaded, ready to kill. They live in fear not only of them, but of the people they’re after, constantly whispering messages of hate. Gitmo is a reason for these people to turn to terrorism and attack us.

This is a start, an intro to an America that is not out to police the world. These people need to see that the neocons are extinct, that we are done torturing, that the Bush injustices are a thing of the past.

We need to eliminate all reasons these people have to attack us. Will torture continue? Of course, those CIA black sites aren’t closing up anytime soon, but this is how things start.

I was born and raised in the Middle East and I believe that is very naive to think that closing Gitmo would restore our position in the world. Radicals and terrorists don’t think the same way as any reasonable person does. The only thing that satisfies them is the destruction of US and ultimately Israel because they think USA is the big Satan.

Comment by Seattle Moss | 2009-01-23 14:28:25

Time will show that by situating ourselves in the middle of all future resource wars that the United States will dictate the outcome of said wars.

That is in itself an illegal war crime. In fact invading another Country for oil was part of the reason for hanging a friend of Donald Rumsfield; oh yeah a Mr Sadam Hussein for invading Kuwait.

Ordinary people in the Middle East don’t believe Israel has right to exist.
They see Israel as an invader of a Muslim country so pulling the troops out of Iraq or Afghanistan won’t change their opinion of US. They just see it as a victory for the Muslims and defeat of US.

Actually President Obama also ordered the closure of the secret Camps.

Linda…great article…..very troubling
Thanks!

What actually should be done with those found not guilty? Many would have been impreisoned,with no due process, no idea of why they are there, who or what accused them, what they are accused of. After 6 months, never mind years, you would have have lost your job and home. Their family, probably assumes that the person is dead.

They will have been tortured. (Some of the techniques that do not count as torture only fail to do so on a very tight dictionary definition, such as sleep pattern disturbance (lawful??) v sleep deprivation (unlwaful)).

They may not have hated the West when they went in but I but they do now.

Compensation is payable, it is only fair, it is however going to be difficult to swallow for many.

Steinem is a whore!

Obama is NOT brilliant.

He is someone of average intelligence who can MEMORIZE enough to pass tests.

There are different kinds of intelligence — and also individual differences in our capacity to retain information and SYNTHESIZE information and the ability to formulation new plans or theories.

Obama does NOT have the ability to move to the next level — he can’t see the big picture — he is forever stuck in the past and although he speaks about the future — he just doesn’t have the leadership ability, nor experience.

Just because he can READ a teleprompter does not make him brilliant. A large light bulb is brilliant — but it still needs an outside power source to light up.

Who cares what they think? And to hell with Israel! We need to get their hands out of our pockets anyway. If they can’t survive down there, then that’s their problem, not ours.

There are prisoners at secret and super secure US bases.

There is an island in the Indian Ocean — owned by the UK — the island was “given” to the US in exchange for sub missiles. The inhabitants of the island were herded onto boats and taken to another country and dumped off.

This whole island is now a US military base. The UK “Governor” of this UK colony lives in the UK. Diego Garcia is the name of this UK/US island — military base — & prison.

This is one place where the US holds super secret prisoners — perhaps terrorists or perhaps just unlucky people who were SOLD to the US military by “friends” in Afghanistan, Iraq or who knows where.

Ah gee — don’t blame Obama (DB0) –

He was just reading the teleprompter — he doesn’t know what he’s reading. He doesn’t remember what he reads — see that’s how he is so brilliant — he doesn’t have to remember words or what he says.

Closing Gitmo has nothing to do with sending a signal to terrorists. It sends a signal to members of alliances that have been damaged. It has nothing to do with sympathy for terrorists. It’s about restoring the rule of law. It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out.

I suspect that Gitmo might even turn prisoners into al Quaida — if they weren’t before.

It has been said of US prisons — PhD in Criminality upon graduation the former inmates have learned new skills.

I think we can agree that the former Gitmo inmates will NOT have a lot of love in their hearts for America.

Yet it has been shown that many of the former prisoners who have been released were INNOCENT — before they were sold to the US.

Another thing we might be able to agree on — Gitmo is a GWB crime.

well said.true too..

Another detail that people forget about –

How we treat POWs impacts how other nations will treat OUR military personnel if they are caught — even IF our military personnel will be allowed to LIVE.

That’s why there are rules of law.

It used to be that the lawless bad guys were the other guys — THEY were the ones who would torture our guys.

North Korea — China — Russia — bad communist countries who ignored the International rules of war.

Our military were put through mock pow camps so that they could be prepared if captured by the lawless bad guys.

Following the International rules — means hopefully, that if our military personnel are captured they will be treated humanely and in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.

Obama is a smart man, but he is intellectually lazy. He is too lazy to do his research – that is clear when he tries to answer questions “off the cuff”.

My first thought was a possible attack on the Prison to get them released…..or to break them out.

And also he can fly. True story. There is no end to his wonders.

Ditto and ditto.

But you will never convince many progressives of this. They honestly believe the world would be in eternal peace and harmony if only the USofA (or maybe just George Bush) never existed.

Closing Gitmo is to make Americans, especially leftist Americans, feel happy. Thats it.

Closing Gitmo is one thing, but closing without a plan is another. That is the big deal here – PBO has no plan!! Nada, Zip, Zippo. And, by saying within 1 year – who knows what can happen during that time. I think we should have a running bet as to the real time line, and if indeed, the place will really close. Now that would be worth bantering over!

Closing Gitmo is to make Americans, especially leftist Americans, feel happy.

It’s a step toward starting to feel like real Americans again.

Real Americans value life, liberty, the Constitution, and the rule of law. They don’t hold suspects in secret prisons indefinitely, denying them due process. They don’t methodically torture captives to extract information, and then use the information as “evidence” in secret military trials.

That’s the sort of crap countless American soldiers have given their lives to stop.

To me the critical thing about Gitmo is that the tactics used there show utter direspect for the beliefs that are basic to our Constitution. We don’t imprison people without charging them; they should have a fair and speedy trial and we don’t use torture.These are our beliefs to have and defend.

And final capper, that Obama administration is trying to control the media

He is also trying to control the Repubs by telling them they need to quit listening to Limbaugh.

President Obama warned Republicans on Capitol Hill today that they need to quit listening to radio king Rush Limbaugh if they want to get along with Democrats and the new administration.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01232009/news/politics/prez_zings_gop_foe_in_a_timulating_talk_151572.htm