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Not just a fair-weather friend

By truthtelling007 on January 23, 2009 at 6:40 PM in Dick Cheney, George Bush, Hillary Clinton, Larry Johnson, Obama Administration, Obama's Media Censorship, Obama's Priorities, Obama's Thugs, Obamatopia, Obamatopia Mirage, President Barack Obama

Larry Johnson, my friend, posted his personal view on statements of hatred towards Obama. It brings forward a simple question; Do we have among us those who have decided they are married to their hatred? Was it only our severe scrutiny of Obama that attracted you? Or are you interested in joining us to continue to Scrutinize Obama’s performance with clear eyes? Are you capable of giving him his due when he does the right thing? Or will this be a no win situation no matter what he may do right?

Is this relationship only based on the idea that Larry Johnson and others validated your interest in hating Obama and his supporters? Or Are you interested in anything positive or even rational discourse?

If this relationship is based solely on hatred then I’m afraid there are some who never really appreciated who Larry Johnson really is. They adored him when he seemed to be singing their song, apparently validating their hatred, but then when they found out he wasn’t validating their hatred, they turned on him. Haven’t we heard this tune before? I have.

Just last year Larry Johnson dared question Obama’s qualifications and wherewithal and the supporters for Obama cried, “I thought I knew you. I used to enjoy your blog. Stick to your anti-terrorism commentary!” They attacked him repeatedly because he didn’t validate their biases. When he came out in support of Clinton he was challenged on his integrity and called a “shill” based on their assumptions and bias against Clinton. I can tell you that I wasn’t surprised when Larry came out in support of Hillary Clinton as the Obama supporters ran away to their Daily Kos meetings to validate their feelings.

It is ironic that those who now proclaim their hatred for Obama mocked the Obama supporters who turned on Larry last year when he didn’t validate their bias? Remember those days? “Where’s the Larry I knew?” they yelped when he didn’t read their script. The mantra around here was that the Daily Kossacks were ‘kool-aid’ drinkers because their reactions seemed completely irrational.

I know what Larry is aiming for; rational, fact based, analysis and criticism. Hate does not provide; rational, fact based, analysis and criticism. It is an emotion, thats all. It is entirely selfish and irrational. One can hold contempt without being hateful. All of the worst crimes against humanity are rooted in hatred and joined with justifications that are entirely self-serving. So many despots and leaders have destroyed their country and others with hatred. Many critics of policy are written off when it is clear they are coming from hatred instead of principle.

In my case, I want George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and others to go to prison for KNOWN crimes, not just believed ones, and yet, I don’t harbor hatred for them. I got scolded today for not saying I hate them, and that person who I love just couldn’t convince me that I had to hate these men. In the end they had to realize that we just don’t agree about ‘hating’ people.

I too will stand with Larry in the coming years to challenge Obama on his decisions, to share news of his actions, and demand accountability. My children’s’ future requires that I remain vigilant. I am not a Democrat and have no such loyalties to their party. I voted for someone else to be the nominee. I voted for someone else to be President. And after 8 years of the last administration the good news is I am growing immune to the irrational blather of those who place hate as some sort of principle.

And despite the projected expectations of the leaderless among us, Larry didn’t tell anyone to think or feel anything. It is his blog and he gave his opinion on the line of discussion going on here. He called for reasoned and civil comments so people can understand the pain that runs beneath the hatred.

“Farewell my fair weather friend…” – Johnny Rotten, the former singer for the Sex Pistols, sang in his group, Public Image Limited.

If you “know” Larry Johnson, how is it that the mercurial nature of these comments reflects that you don’t know him at all?

I don’t even want to say I know Larry well, but I can say, after we were damaged by Hurricane Ike, Larry was sure to wish us well before and check in afterwards. When I had other pressing matters to deal with, Larry showed legitimate concern. When I’ve dealt with him, he’s been a fair player each time. And I will stand with him no matter what fire you guys throw at him. I feel the same about Susan. I often disagree with them, but we handle the disagreement with respect. I’ve even had them ask to make sure I am keeping my criticisms to the facts instead of getting caught up in the person. I agree with them on this and it has helped to clarify my goals in discourse.

Good luck to those of you who have a different opinion than Larry. But insulting those who are different than you with hyperbole ridden comments like, “oh yeah, let’s just sing Kumbaya” really does more to discredit your own appearance than it suddenly makes me break out a guitar and sing that tune. It is your projection, not mine.

I will learn to forgive the hostilities, not for their sake, but for my own sanity. And this exercise in expression makes my values even more clear.

Thank you Larry; for showing principle and backbone. I appreciate your honesty and integrity.

  • ahs

    Hmm.

    If and when what I see is clear-eyed criticism and not the kind of facially silly stuff that makes up a great chunk of the posts here, then I’m all aboard.

    But see the “I Won” crap for a great example of meaningless, hypercritical drivel intended solely to drive blog traffic by appealing to the lowest common denominator. That’s why, to be blunt, NQ is a bit of a blogosphere laughingstock. There’s no premium put on being serious here.

    • ahs

      And of course, I’m remiss in not stating that I appreciate what you’re getting at in this post. My bad.

      • http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2009/01/21/VI2009012101557.html?sid=ST2009012101096 trixta

        ahs–and yet you’re here keeping us company. Have you asked yourself why you bother to loiter at NQ if this site is such a “laughing stock?”

        • Newly Independent

          Because “ahs” is a huge joke him/herself.

    • NCgirl

      Okay ahs, I’ve got a clear-eyed criticism for you. Yesterday, Pres. Obama made this statement at a press conference:

      “If you are a lobbyist entering my administration, you will not be able to work on matters you lobbied on, or in the agencies you lobbied, during the previous two years,”

      Then he turns around, throws that out the window, and hires William Lynn, a Raytheon lobbyist, as Deputy Defense Secretary. So there was nobody else in the entire United States qualified for that job but a known lobbyist?

      • ahs

        I don’t like that hire either. What I do like is that the media caught it, which makes me think they’ll continue to do so. Then we can see if it’s a pattern or just a couple of exceptions on account of the fact that it’s a brand-new rule.

        • http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

          “What I do like is that the media caught it…”

          Yep. Anyone who thinks the mainstream media will be President Obama’s lapdogs does NOT understand the nature of news reporters.

          • JulieD

            UBM is forever blowing BO…BBLES!

            • http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

              Cheers, JulieD. That was almost witty!

          • NoBamaNoWay

            you’re right UBM, the MSM are not obama’s lapdogs; they own him. they just wanted to give him a little reminder of that fact. if he plays nice, they won’t do it again.

          • truthtelling007

            “Yep. Anyone who thinks the mainstream media will be President Obama’s lapdogs does NOT understand the nature of news reporters”

            We’ve already seen this happen a few times. When they smell blood, reporters won’t hesitate to figure out what party it came from. They were eager to get him a few times in the primaries over NAFTA, or Wright, and then even Ayers. I have tapes and tapes of Rev. Wright controversy comments from all the network.

            As LJ wrote in his post that precipitated his one, they didn’t gain traction.

            But that is also because he was a candidate. Watch what happens as President when he makes a mistake of that magnitude and I guarantee the press will go apeshit for the story.

            If they don’t, then truly the world has changed.

        • BernieO

          The media caught it but have not made much of it. That is always the problem. The media often sweeps things under the rug even though a few outlets report events because they drop the story. It is the continual spotlight, especially on television, that brings things to the attention of the general public.

          For example the media reported endlessly on Clinton’s pardon of Mark Rich, conveniently omitting the fact that Clinton was lobbied by the Israelis because Rich had been a big help to Mossad. And the pardon happened as Clinton was trying to get the Israelis to agree to a peace settlement. By omitting this critical information the media has been able to spin the story as a grab by greedly ol’ Bill for money for his library because Rich’s EX-WIFE had donated. The media continues to bring the story up as evidence of how corrupt Bill Clinton is.

          Compare that to their treatment of the much more egregious pardon of Caspar Weinberger by the first President Bush. That pardon kept Bush’s own role in Iran Contra and his subsequent lies (no notes, out-of-the-loop, etc.)from coming to light and possibly being prosecuted. The media reported on it but let it drop.

          Don’t get your hopes up that the media will do its job. They haven’t for years ever since grown ups like Walter Cronkite were replaced by guys who think politics should be treated like a high school popularity contest.

      • Strawberrybitch

        Don’t you love the smell of hypocrisy in the afternoon, NCgirl?

        • NCgirl

          Oh yeah.

      • cynic

        “If you are a lobbyist entering my administration, you will not be able to work on matters you lobbied on, or in the agencies you lobbied, during the previous two years.”

        Why are we presuming those two limitations aren’t going to apply to the new Deputy Defense Secretary, as a lobbyist entering the Obama administration?

        • ahs

          “In the agencies you lobbied” means, in Lynn’s case, in the DoD. And they went ahead and waived the rule in his case.

          So yeah, it’s tough to say it’s anything but hypocritical. IMHO, though, it’s not a huge deal unless it continues to happen. So it bears watching, but without foaming at the mouth.

          • Strawberrybitch

            No I’m not mad, I’m laughing my ass of watching you try and spin this.

            • ahs

              What am I spinning? I think this was a dumb move, and certainly hypocritical. I also think it’s one hire (an admittedly important one) out of thousands.

              If and when we see a pattern, then it will look like a big problem. Until then, it looks like a single exception they made to a brand-new rule so that they could get the guy they wanted.

              • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

                These 0bots heads are going to start spinning –

                if they aren’t already.

                0-zero is a narcissist — he doesn’t give a damn about anyone except himself —

                As he said “he” won —

                Over a year ago he made it very clear that he HATED women — and every single time he insult Sen. Clinton — he insulted ALL women.

                We’ve seen this same attitude from the Tr0lls who keep harassing us.

                I see 0bama as a dangerous person — because he has NO experience and NO qualifications to BE president.

                Days after screwing up his oath of office it is plain stupid the act like a 3 year old child — screaming “I Won”.

                You 0bot trolls need professional help — you are living in an alternative reality — an imaginary world of your own creation.

                Please go get help.

                And go away.

              • Strawberrybitch

                Raytheon dude, not American Farm Workers or Teachers’ Union….a defense contractor with millions tied up in Iraq…and if Obama didn’t see this as a stupid move this soon after BRAGGING about the sweeping ethics reform he just passed a day earlier then he is either arrogant or not that bright. And THAT scares me.

                • TeakwoodKite

                  he is either arrogant or not that bright.

                  May I take the counter and suggest that he was well aware of the symbolism this choice?

                  Also, if one looks at what is up with them…

                  Raytheon Reports Strong Third Quarter 2008 Results, Increases Full-Year Guidance and Announces New $2.0 Billion Share Repurchase Plan

                  WALTHAM, Mass., Oct. 23, 2008 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ –

                  Highlights

                  — Sales of $5.9 billion, up 12 percent
                  — Operating income of $680 million, up 19 percent
                  — Earnings per share (EPS) from continuing operations of $1.01, up
                  17 percent
                  — Strong bookings of $5.8 billion; backlog of $37.0 billion
                  — Credit rating upgraded to A- by Standard & Poor’s and Fitch

                  while the majority of sectors nose dive…they seem ok.

                  • Strawberrybitch

                    Teak, can you tell me who makes the unmanned drones that bombed Pakistan today? I wonder what Code Pink and ahs thinks of these developments. It was also interesting to see how the new White House Press secretary said he refused to talk about it.

                    • TeakwoodKite

                      Raytheon’s Killer Bee

                    • Strawberrybitch

                      Well now we know who’s going to get THAT contract, aren’t we?

                    • Seattle Moss

                      Straw…I find that very interesting. You know that I have been rather hawkish in finding a silver lining in the Bush wars but didn’t we just attack Pakistan today.
                      I’m not for a broader war into the tribal lands of western Pakistan. This could lead to a regional war with Pakistan being taken over by terrorists with nukes.
                      i understand that several civilians were killed today..If I was a Pakistani I would call this an act of war.

                      What irony..The left wing are against war except when it comes to igniting WW3

                    • I SMELL TROLL

                      Yawn…Different Day, Same President.

                    • Strawberrybitch

                      What scares me Moss, is Obama may be doing this just to prove he’s not a muslim or that he’s tough on terror. Anyway you slice it, the far far far left wing folks have to be shocked…wait, they’ll just spin it like the Raytheon lobbyist becoming Dep. Defense Sec.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      Obama may be doing this just to prove he’s not a muslim or that he’s tough on terror.

                      Great!..Now we have another shoot from the hip cowboy tough guy..

                    • Seattle Moss

                      Maybe someone can answer this question.

                      What is the difference between a drone firing missiles and killing people than one of our fighter jets entering into Pakistani airspace and doing the same.
                      Apparently the media and those on the far left don’t count drones as an attack on another country.
                      The headlines tonight should have been

                      The US attacks Pakistan!

                      What is it about Obama and Pakistan
                      He seems hell bent to have a war there which will be utterly catastrophic.

                    • Karma

                      Was Pakistan on the PNAC list of countries that needed ‘change’?

                      Obama/Bush III

              • A

                This speaks volumes as to everything that is wrong with this country. Obama makes a clear decisive statement and then a moment later breaks his own rule and to some, it’s no big deal. They’ll wait for a “pattern” before they get upset. The man broke his own word almost instantly and it’s no big f*cking deal.

                So if he breaks this rule again to get the guy they want will that be okay? I mean, they have to get the “best” guy in there so if a few of their own rules are broken no big deal right?

                • Strawberrybitch

                  Pretty much.

                • ahs

                  Have you read up on this hire? I am, at the moment, and it looks like this was actually at the request of Gates. I’m not sure how much of a fight was put up, but it’s worth noting that it’s only Obama’s guy by extension, via Gates.

                  • Strawberrybitch

                    OMG. Now you’re passing the blame…well at least you’re predictabe

                    • Strawberrybitch

                      Sorry for the typos, I’m laughing too hard right now. The buck stops…nowhere near Obama.

                    • http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2009/01/21/VI2009012101557.html?sid=ST2009012101096 trixta

                      Except in Michelle’s pockets. Salary for First Lady (?) — how tacky can you get!

                    • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

                      Well she DID get a huge salary increase for being the WIFE of a Senator — that job has since been eliminated — my my how important and vital she was to that hospital!!

                      I expect that may just pull the same sort of stunt that a Brit diplomat’s wife pulled — she did NOTHING that was expected of a Governor’s wife (diplomatic posting to a UK colony) — her reasoning was that she wasn’t hired. OF course she wanted all the perks that went with her husbands job and title.

                      Mrs. Governor was another one, like Mrs. Obama, who has no concept of what gracious means — both were grabby and felt entitled. Both are childish and spoiled.

                    • UKforDems

                      The PUMA bigits make me laugh. They show nothing but pure undiluted hate for the President and then add in the family. Names like Mechelee, or like that post just here, Michelle is “grabby”. Based on what? Based on the fact that she suppoed her husband running?

                      Seattle Moss shows infintely more class in his opposition than 90% of the PUMA mob. His concern is based on the economy and International Security. He welcomes some decisions and opposes others rationally. The PUMA mob just hate whatever Obama does. It is to that lot that I am happy to say “We won”. It is like rubbing their nose in it. Just in the same way you need to do to a poorly house trained kitten.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      UK Dem,
                      I appreciate the comments!
                      Yes.. I’m a Man that gives credit where it is do regardless of the political party or whether I voted for them or not.
                      I never voted for Bush and originally was against the Iraq war.
                      I rallied to Bush after 911 like all good Americans, but saw the mistake of Iraq going forward. I give Bush credit for keeping us safe as I have not seen the terror briefings and give grudging respect for his resolve with the surge despite universal opposition. Today I look for bright spots and strategic possibilities because we are there and must make it right and defend the western world.
                      As much as I was against this war It is my belief that investigations and prosecutions will only divide and weaken this country at a time of profound crisis.
                      I credit Obama for understanding the risk of making his administration one of never ending investigations and prosecutions which could consume and divide us and lead to a backlash against the democrats especially if we are attacked again. I have a vested interest in seeing my country succeed and prosper. I think Obama’s transition has been a huge success especially for centrists like me who loved Hillary for her foreign policy experience.

                    • ahs

                      You’re not even trying to have a reasonable conversation — that’s exactly the point of the parent post.

                      I just think it colors the analysis some to know that the initial decision to appoint the guy lies with Gates. The decision not to enforce the rule in this case obviously lies with Obama, sure. And that was a dumb call. But…

                    • Strawberrybitch

                      No sorry, the name of this blog is NO QUARTER (look it up). Obama said he represented change. Hillary, he said was politics of the past. He ran on change, that he would keep the lobbyists out of Washington. This is not change, in fact, Obama keeping Bush appointee Gates is not change. So he in fact is a liar. And you are too blind to see that you have just been F****D.

                    • ahs

                      Here’s a change: a sweeping rule barring lobbyists which, when broken in this single instance, still requires Lynn to sell his Raytheon stock and have an ethics board peering at his every move.

                      This is a big change in how Washington will do business. If you honestly can’t see how different that is from the last decade-plus, then you’re not worth another word.

                    • WildChild

                      I guess BOBO was just a little unclear on the concept of barring lobbyists actually meant. But then he was a little unclear on what opposing telecom immunity actually meant also.

                    • http://Godhelpusall lee M

                      Strawberrybitch, ahs is correct. This choice was requested by Gates. Obama,(and I agree with him on this one thing), wants and needs Gates so he felt it important to let him have the man he wanted. I don’t like Obama, but it’s called putting first things first. Gates needs the team he knows will be successful in what he has to do for the country. This time, as much as I hate to say it, we should give Obama a little slack.

                  • A

                    What I am hearing is an excuse. Is the rule that Obama stated regarding Lobbyist to be obeyed or not? Please answer that question for me ahs. Will the rule be abided by or not?

                    • RobWarrior

                      That’s not the rule I used to know.

                      Just figured, I’d get that in before someone else did.

                    • http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2009/01/21/VI2009012101557.html?sid=ST2009012101096 trixta

                      Actually, we just didn’t hear Obama correctly on the matter. LOL!!

                    • ahs

                      I very much hope it’s to be obeyed.

                      What I’d like to see: no exceptions, ever, even if it kinda screws people who, while lobbying, weren’t expecting a rule like this ever to exist. It’s a great (and unprecedented) rule, and rules only work when they’re enforced.

                      What I’m seeing here is this: Gates picked Lynn as a deputy, Obama signed off. After that (or maybe before; we don’t know) somebody noticed that he’d been a lobbyist. So they said fine, and in conjunction with the Armed Services Cmt. they set up a system where Lynn was required to divest in Raytheon and must get specific approval from an ethics board before dealing with Raytheon in his DoD job.

                      This looks… OK, but not very good. Much better had the rule just been enforced, but the total picture is a far cry from Obama just appointing the guy and blithely ignoring his own rule.

                      Bringing it back to the point of this blog post: your derangement toward Obama prevents you from treating it like anything other than the Worst, Most Hypocritical Thing Ever. And I find it awfully funny/sad.

                    • Strawberrybitch

                      WORM. He had to sign a waiver for the guy. He knew what he was doing and who this man was. My God, and you refer to us as sad. Oohhhhhhh, you’d be cute if you weren’t so annoying.

                    • ahs

                      You realize “WORM” goes both ways, right? As in, you ascribe totally malevolent motives and meaning because you hate the guy, and I assign non-malevolent ones because I sorta like him, right?

                      No, you probably don’t realize that. Sorry to burst your acronym.

                    • A

                      Please don’t assume things about me just because you have preconceived biases against this site and its commenter’s. I am just trying to have a conversation about this issue. You are saying you believe it is a good rule. I do as well. You believe it should be followed, as do I.
                      But again, you are making excuses. In this particular case you find that it’s ‘kind of okay’ because of this reason and that. Like you stated below, you like the guy so you are more likely to excuse a few blunders here or there. I am not. I would have had more respect for Obama if he kept to the new rule and told Gates he needed to find someone else.
                      I have liked a number of executive orders that he has made in the last few days. So I’m not a hater, but I have found my tolerance has reached rock bottom when it comes to situations like this. I have seen too many people excuse away bad and downright criminal behavior in the last two years. As a result, I am less likely to be lenient of Obama or anyone in Government in situations like this.

                    • ahs

                      Fair enough.

                      I guess my thing is this: it’s a pretty great rule change. Even here, where it isn’t followed, the end result is still Lynn with an ethics board looking over his shoulder, which is much more than could be said for the last 8+ years.

                      Yes, I’d like to see them enforce it rigidly, from the beginning. But my criticism of Obama for not doing so has to be tempered by the fact that this rule change, albeit imperfectly implemented, really is a pretty big deal. If that’s an excuse, so be it.

                      BTW, a sincere apology for lumping you in with others. Pitfalls of internet communication and all that.

                    • A

                      No worries ahs. I do understand that on the ‘tubes there are always a lot of assumptions. That’s why I just wanted to clarify. What I will just finish with is, what you have said sounds like things are moving in the right direction and certainly appeals to us all after the debacle of the last 8 years; but I’m still going to have to take a wait and see stance. In six months if the ethics board is actually doing something and is not just a footnote in Lynn’s appointment then I will probably start to shake off some of my distrust.

                    • UKforDems

                      Comment by A | 2009-01-23 19:58:34

                      What I am hearing is an excuse. Is the rule that Obama stated regarding Lobbyist to be obeyed or not? Please answer that question for me ahs. Will the rule be abided by or not?

                      Ask the President

                      http://www.whitehouse.gov

                  • TeakwoodKite

                    Gates, who serves at the pleasure of the president.

                    • WildChild

                      If I were gates I’d break into a cold sweat if anyone (especially BOBO) said that anywhere near the back of a limo

              • don

                So how many instances of Obama breaking his own rule will it take before you consider it a pattern? Will two or three instances be enough or will two or three times only be breaking a new rule to get the guys they want?

                Frankly I have the feeling that Obama could care less about rules and/or laws that might get in the way of achieving his goal(s).

              • TeakwoodKite

                but without foaming at the mouth….we see a pattern.

                So now what?

                Truthteller007, makes a reasoned rational statement. I rabidly thank him for it.

                Saying BooHoo repeatedly is a waste of time and personal Karma.

                • truthtelling007

                  let me get you some water, teakwood. you are someone I always enjoy reading.

              • elise

                Oh well, if it just an exception then it’s ok,ahs. But, there was Tom Daschle who called himself a “special advisor” to a firm representing pharmacutials. David Axelrod’s firm counts AT&T as one of it’s clients and even though he is a political advisor to the White House, Obama’s FISA vote released the company from future prosecution. How many exceptions do you get before it becomes the rule?

          • cynic

            Gotcha. Hmm… I think one of my braincells was momentarily misfiring.

      • Strawberrybitch

        A known lobbyist for one of the world’s largest defense contractors as Dep. Defense Secretary…and it only to two days!!! OMG too funny! This needs to go viral.

    • http://deleted MrX

      You’re on the wrong site. The laughing stock is the Cheeto nation web site. No one could sink lower than them no matter how hard they tried.

      • ahs

        See, that’s just the thing — you’re wrong. I’m not a huge dKos guy, but there’s still an emphasis on being rational and reality-based there, and I think it’s safe to say that will increase as election fervor subsides.

        Meanwhile, you’ve got tinfoil hatters right and left here (claiming Obama’s constitutionally ineligible, saying the primaries were somehow stolen, etc.), and you never see that over there. Those people are the ones who get this site laughed at. It’s not about what opinions people hold; it’s about their willful disregard for facts.

        • Ms J of FL

          the pimaries were stolen.
          you are the one wearing a tin foil hat.
          btw, did you get a full vote, or a half vote, dimwit?

        • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

          This is the funniest crap I’ve read in a long time.

          Proof that you KOS guys live in another UNIVERSE all together.

    • CG

      I defend the post “I Won.” This story is on every major news media outlets radar!! Get honest for goodness’ sake. Furthermore, a little humor, a little irony, is absolutely priceless! Luckily, ahs, there are a whole bunch of tubes out there in the internets, and if NQ is not up to your standard, there is absolutely no reason to waste any of your precious time here.

      Thank you Larry, Susan, and for the reminder, thanks Truthtelling007.

      • Docelder

        Yes, the single statement “I won” says so much about the man and is likely a glimpse into how he will govern. Many of us wondered aloud how he would govern, because we had no real idea with nothing really solid to base an opinion on. Many of us guessed aloud, and it looks like many guessed right. Not enough guessed right across the country to thwart a 52-49 win, but enough guessed right here on this space to give some of us a place to feel almost “normal” in a world gone somehow “mad”. I appreciate the folks here for one. I was one of the card carrying “republicans”… at least I was. Now, I am waiting for the third party… the party born from the center which may never come. But, if I have to wait until never… then I will.

        • don

          With you on the third party. Unfortunately at 67 doubt that I will live long enough to see a viable third party representing the center. Unlike you I had been a registered democrat since 1964 but the actions of the DNC on May 31, 2008 ended my association with it. Unfortuantely though too many republicans appear to be RINOs for me to be impressed with it either. Expect I will have to be voting for some of those republicans in any case as I surely will not be voting for democrats after the way the party selected its candidate.

          • Disgusted

            Nothing happened on May 31, 2008. That is just more tinfoil hat stuff. Giving Obama a 40/60 split, in a state where not a single vote cast, had his name on it, was completely legit.Or are are you refering to Hillary’s votes that were just randomly taken from her and awarded to Obama? Come on. They read the minds of those who decided not to vote and correctly compensated Obama. What’s the problem? Then in Florida they just cut Hillary’s massive delegate difference in half. No biggie. They got to cast their votes at full strength at the convention right? Or are you saying something was fishy there too? What’s next cries about caucus fraud and illegal voter registrations? You tinfoil hat people need to wake up!!!!!!

            ********************************SNARK*****************************

      • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

        I find the *you won* statement hilarious, because there was an article a week or so ago, that said that Obama needs to remind the right that *he won*. (I am looking for it, but don’t remember who wrote it)

    • fif

      Oh good. Then we won’t have to worry about seeing you here again right?

    • BernieO

      I shared Larry’s qualms about Obama but agree that we need to stop tearing him apart for everything. That makes us no better than the right wingers and the media who went after Bill Clinton no matter what he did. I intend to aim most of my criticism at the media because I think they are a root cause of our problems. They were the ones who got Bush elected in 2000 and never held his feet to the fire. (9-11 is their bogus excuse for going easy on Bush. They fawned over him and endlessly trashed Gore during the election.)

      That being said I have to disagree with you about the “I won” statement. It is about time that Democrats stood up to right wing bullies and one of my biggest fears was that Obama was so intent on being bipartisan that he would not be tough with these guys, who are acting like they still have a right to call the shots. Many of us here have endlessly complained about Democrats giving in to the right.
      According to one account the issue they were debating was giving checks to low income people who pay no taxes instead of more tax cuts. Obama told them this issue had been debated during the campaign (McCain and Palin called it socialism) and that he had won. I think he had every right to point out that the public had clearly rejected right wing economic policy in the elections. Unlike Bush in 2000, Obama really does have a mandate, like it or not. And putting money into the pockets of the poor who will spend all of it quickly is one of the most effective ways to stimulate our economy ASAP which we desperately need. If he does not stand up to these bullies they will roll him.

    • destardi

      Is that why NQ and River Daughter/Confluence placed so well in the blog web awards?

      Because they’re “laughing stock” material?

      Get your facts right.

      These boards serve as people who DO understand what’s really going on.

      I admire Larry Johnson very much, for his goals and his ability to sift through all the garbage we call American politics.

      And UBM…I grew sour on uhbama when comments like this were made, and not reported..they tried to call Bill’s “fairy tale” comment racist after they used it out of context, then we have a blatant racist comment coming from uhbama’s side and it gets ignored:

      Sen Bill Perkins:
      “Harlem is not Bill Clinton’s plantation.”

      racist say wha-!?!?

      to hell with uhbama’s and his team’s dirty ways, and his ignorant george w. bush-like zombie supporters.

      I will give credit where credit is due, but anyone who thinks uhbama is doing all of his decision making completely on his own, and it’s not the 600,000,000 dollar donatin gsupporters talking, is an idiot.

  • Strawberrybitch

    Truthteller, Larry is right. We need to watch what Obama does and judge him accordingly. Like passing new ethic rules about hiring lobbyists the first day then giving a waiver to a lobbyist the third day. I’d link to it on MSN if I could. I’m sorry but this one has got me laughing.

    • NoBamaNoWay

      who is saying that obama *shouldn’t* be judged by his actions, for better or worse? i think that the “hate” charge is a little overblown.

    • http://Godhelpusall lee M

      Gates is desperately needed at this juncture of the war, and he wasn’t too gung ho about staying on. If Obama feels that he needs to let him have his choice of deputy to do the job let’s this once give him the benefit of the doubt.

      Don’t get me wrong. I despise Obama, and believe he got the nomination in a crooked underhanded way. In this one instance, while we are still at war we need to let a professional (Gates) have his man. If he is properly scrutinized and supervized he should be kept away from any hanky-panky.

  • jbjd

    Count me out. The analysis begins and ends with this: BO is Constitutionally ineligible for the job. But even if he had the qualifications, HRC won the D primary; and any D would have won the election. For me, ignoring the faulty underlying premise of BO’s candidacy is like saying, ‘Well, Hitler made the trains run on time.’

    • don

      I too have problems with BO’s Constitutional eligiblity to be president. Don’t hate him as a person but feel he is a Usurper in Charge. If it would come to a vote on doing away with any one part of government I would certainly vote to downsize but eliminating the Supreme Court. I thought the justices were to protect our Constitution but instead of hearing cases regarding he eligiblity and ruling one way or another, they take the easy, expedient way out and just refuse to hear a case. Someone said that NQ is a laughing stock in other places, but man will we, the American people and our government, be a laughing stock around the world if it would ever come out that indeed Obama is not a “Natural Born Citizen” or really did travel to Pakistan under an Indonesian passport. Really get a chuckle out of Obama saying his administration will be based on law. (Maybe what he really meant was the circumventing of the law!)

  • MrX

    Because when you scrutinize Obama and find him wanting, you should stay consistent. To now sweep everything under the carpet as if everything is fine is dishonest and hypocritical. If people hate Obama, they have the right. There is plenty of evidence of his wrongdoings.

    Obama did not learn that good deeds do not make up for bad ones when he spoke about Wright. Larry is repeating that mistake when speaking about Obama.

    Also, what kind of crazy talk is it to hope Obama succeeds when he’s going to implement policies that you disagree with? Insanity if I’ve ever seen it.

  • Diana L. C.

    I’ve been reading the blog lately for other stories that have nothing to do with O. The Gaza situation is one example. The economic analysis is also good for me since I am such a rube when it comes to anything like understanding the whole money situation. (I’ve been too poor most of my life to worry about it.)

    It is very hard to forgive the man, no matter what he gets right, for the way the primary was gamed; And by not forgiving him or the DNC, I am just trying my best to forget about him, one way or the other.

    It’s very hard to think that it’s a wonderful thing if he does something right when his campaign completely overturned my sense that our “democracy” was really a democracy, that our elections were held according to ethical principles. Experiencing the primary as a delegate from county to state conventions and knowing in my heart that things weren’t done correctly by the Party was like pulling my country out from under my feet.

    I agree that we should watch O from now on and not continue to rehash the past. But don’t expect me to ever become a cheerleader for the man.

    • Blueray98

      Diana L. C., great comment — very well said, and it’s exactly what I feel.

      • Ellen D

        I think that anyone that was directly involved in the primaries will have a hard time accepting that the results were tough but fair.
        Myself, I really like Larry and try to be logical and impartial about Obama, but there are still a few things that trouble me.
        I don’t like to seem like a tinfoil hat type but I believe that when the constitution mandates a native birth, it should be mandated that those that run for that office first show their birth certificates and have them certified as authentic and meeting the basic requirement for that office. That doesn’t mean I accept all the wild stories but I can’t reconcile Obama not doing that with having a transparent administration.

        • http://sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

          Ellen D, you cannot have one foot in both places. Either Obama has a transparent administration and shows his birth certificate because there is nothing to hide, or we assume there is something he is hiding. That’s not “wild”–it’s logic.

  • Manu

    This is not about hating Obama, but hating what he stands for- the idea that you can cheat and steal and get away with it without consequences. Forgive and forget? We didn’t extend the same courtesy to Bush, so why do so to Obomber?

    • http://deleted MrX

      Well said! And that brings up another topic… who do we usually give a second chance to? People who’ve committed wrongdoings, no? So Larry is in effect insulting Obama by saying he needs a second chance.

    • http://deleted Buzz Latte LaRue

      Agreed.

      By agreeing to give Obama a chance, we would be condoning his corruption.

    • Wisewoman

      I agree that this is not about hating Obama. In fact truthteller used the word hate or variations of it 14 times in a post having 15 paragraphs (4 of which were 1 or 2 line para.). What’s with that? Overkill?? Why are the supporters of this site still being accused of being haters when maybe 95% of them (including me) have denied the charge and explicitedly explained their views concerning Obama?

      I am an AA female who marched with MLK and I don’t hate anyone. Because Obama exhibited traits and actions and misrepresented himself and Hillary he can not earn anyone’s OK without repudiating the race-baiting, dishonest, thuggish tactics of his campaign.
      1. Obama is a liar, do I hate him >> NO
      2. Obama is a racist, do I hate him >> NO
      3. Obama is a narcissist, do I hate him >> NO
      4. Obama is a thief, do I hate him >> NO
      4.Obama is a wolf in sheep clothing, do I hate him >> NO
      He must be held accountable for each and every action, past, present and future.
      STOP WITH THE HATE ACCUSATIONS!!

      • Animal Control

        I’ve said this before “I like your mind”

      • beachnan

        Amen Wisewoman, Amen!!!!

      • don

        Have to agree wholeheartedly.

      • Snickers

        Wisewoman and Diana LC and others,
        I agree. Look at Obama with clear eyes this article says. Fine.
        He’s a liar-he lied nonstop during the primaries as reported on this site owned by Larry Johnson
        He’s corrupt-he’s tied in to the Chicago Combine, again reported here
        He’s misogynist, sexist, homophobe, racist, etc. etc. all faithfully reported here. The end does NOT justify the means, IMHO. As others have said here frequently, a broken clock is right twice a day. So what if he does a few things right. Dubya probably did as well. That One is no different from Dubya. Most of us have already stated we don’t hate the guy, but we hate what he did. I repeat what others said: if he wants to truly have a transparent administration, then show us the birth certificate. No? Guess transparency is only for other folks not the O.

      • http://! stodgie

        wise woman, your excellent post is appreciated.

  • samb

    For me my opinion was based on the fact that OB was selected not elect by the people during the primary. Keeping your eyes open and your mouth shut, is not going to happen. there is no frog prince or prince charming, thats only fairy tales, politicians are just that politicians and should be looked at carefully. We should always be able to ask WHY?

  • http://deleted Buzz Latte LaRue

    Damn, it’s hard to give Obama a second chance when he keeps screwing the country.

    This is just another in a long line of repeat offenses from Obama.

    • ahs

      This meta blog post about NQ readers is “another in a long line of repeat offenses from Obama”?

      Huh?

  • RobWarrior

    I don’t think Larry or Truthteller is asking anyone to forgive and forget. I certainly won’t and can’t and neither can Larry.

    I try to keep this in mind for my own posts and radio show. Yes, I do not like Barack Obama and yes it pains me how he managed to get himself elected as President, but it does not mean instaneously that everything his administration does will be wrong.

    This administration no matter how corruptly elected is running our country and they may occasionally bring forth a policy or program that is good for the nation. If they do, I will acknowledge that. That does not mean I am forgiving or forgetting.

    If they screw up, I will point that out and enjoy myself while doing it. I doubt I am ever going to like Barack Obama, but I am going to try not to let that prejudice my viewpoint on the policies brought forth from the White House.

    I think that is all Larry was trying to say. No one has to forgive anything.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      well said!

    • truthtelling007

      “I don’t think Larry or Truthteller is asking anyone to forgive and forget.”
      nor to refrain from disagreement and criticism of Obama.

      and again, Truthteller and Truthtelling007, different people.

  • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

    I did not turn on Larry, but Larry sure the heck turned on me when I respectfully disagreed with him on his “hater” post. I believe he used a term referencing mental retardation in his reply.

    I have no problem with this site espousing a variety of views. But it seems to me that lately you guys are trying to chase off the very people who got your blog to #2 in the blog awards.

    • Ani

      He should not have said that to you in my view.

      As anyone who has seen my writing here knows, I have called Obama out on the carpet 1,000 times and will continue to do so. I am incredibly upset with the way he got the office, so, yes, I cannot let bygones be bygones.

      At the same time, we are stuck with him now, and in the interest of my country getting back on it’s feet, I will criticize or acknowledge accordingly, depending on each action.

      However, I will still continue to remind folks of the injustices that transpired, if for no other reason than to keep a light trained on those deeds so that they do not happen again.

      Forewarned is forearmed.

      I know all of the writers here are very grateful to all of you for your loyal readership. We are all looking to find a way to navigate through these painful waters going forward. Everyone is going to do that in their own way. While NoQ is certainly pro-Hillary, there is no single opinion or way to express it.

      All the posts that were up on and around inauguration day were a good case in point — there were varying viewpoints on dealing with his administration going forward.

      Thanks for your comments.

    • Marley

      AGREE!!

    • UKforDems

      Comment by Hillary or Bust | 2009-01-23 19:41:29

      I did not turn on Larry, but Larry sure the heck turned on me when I respectfully disagreed with him on his “hater” post. I believe he used a term referencing mental retardation in his reply.

      I read that and I also read why he turned on you. You know exactly why he did as well. There are those, who include you, that need posts asking you to moderate your language, because it goes beyond the pale.

      Oppose Obama as much as you want. Obama was the first Democratic candidate in many years to secure a true mandate on the first election. I think he will do well. You can make your own choice. He has 3 and 1/4 years before his re-election campaign has to start. But you should not use language that undermines you and the site you post on.

      • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

        “There are those, who include you, that need posts asking you to moderate your language, because it goes beyond the pale.”

        I have NEVER had any moderator here at NQ strikeout anything I have written here, EVER. So don’t lump me in with those people. My original post to Larry was reasonable and nowhere did I resort to name-calling against him. His response to me and others was to escalate with name-calling.

        I like this site, I’m not even mad at Larry, but if he wants to keep visitors here, he as site owner should probably tone down the attacks on his readers. If he wants his readers to be less hateful then he needs to set the tone in his own behavior. I say that as a suggestion.

  • Peggy Sue

    I don’t think it’s a matter of “forgiving and forgetting,” Manu. I did not vote for Obama. But the reality is that Barack Obama is President of the United States, period.

    Will he be successful? Will he fail? I don’t know. The responsibility is on his shoulders now [no dusting off allowed]. I have a modicum of hope with the people he’s chosen for cabinet choices. I’m pleased with the on-going Executive Orders [I was ticked off yesterday, allowing the Roe vs Wade anniversary to pass].

    But today, he got it right.

    I’m concerned about the stimulus package but greatly impressed with the State Department team.

    So, we shall see. The press needs to hold every president’s feet to the flame–no more slobbering, in-the-tank, my legs are tingling nonsense.

    But, I’ll be honest some of the comments at NQ recently have gone beyond my comfort factor. In fact, I read a rather ominous post last night. Now, it might have been just talk but the tone made me feel a bit queasy. I tried to comment but my post never made it.

    Raw hatred and petty nitpicking will not solve any of the problems facing us now. As far as I’m concerned, the jury is out on Barack Obama’s ability to lead.

    So, we shall see.

    • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

      Judging from 0bama’s followers — I would never consider him a “leader” — it is not in his DNA.

      He is a mob agitator — I do not consider agitators as leaders.

      A community organizer = mob agitator — 0bama style.

      And he will NEVER be my president — just as GWB was NEVER my president.

      • Peggy Sue

        You may be absolutely right, Northwest. I don’t have a terrific amount of confidence or trust in the man.

        But he could surprise us [in a good way]. I think it’s our responsibility to keep our eyes wide open, support the things we can and strongly object to the things we can’t sign off on. Or won’t.

        I sincerely hope he’s better than I expect, for all our sake’s, because we all have an investment in this thing we call a country.

        If it goes badly? We become the loyal opposition and scream like crazy. But if we nitpick every little thing, no one will listen when and if it really matters. People tune out cranks and/or chronic complainers. And the nastiness, the endless namecalling undercuts even the best points of criticism.

        We can do better, that’s all.

        • ahs

          That’s a GREAT way of putting it, thanks.

          But if we nitpick every little thing, no one will listen when and if it really matters. People tune out cranks and/or chronic complainers. And the nastiness, the endless namecalling undercuts even the best points of criticism.

          A lot of people who comment here are putting themselves at risk of being viewed as the lunatic fringe (I’m less polite than you) by the other 85% of the country. If they can’t start differentiating between big and small potatoes, that’s how they’ll be seen.

          • Ani

            I am not a fan of nitpicking either, particularly when there are and were so many bnig issues to take Pres. Obama to task on — sich as when he did a 180 on FISA.

            But if you are goin to discuss the “lunatic fringe,” whenever I tried to go over to HuffPo or DK over the last year, the comments against Hillary were so over the top and disgusting, they truly make anything I’ve read here (negative to Obama) look soft by comparison.

            Honestly, I had to run screaming. I wanted nothing to do with their diatribes. In my view it was those two websites that long ago became a laughingstock.

            Actually, HP did even before the primary heated up — it became a sensationalist rag — you would read the title of an article and think God knows what horrors were contained therein — and then read the article and realize the text did not back up the claim of the title whatsoever. Empty rabble-rousing. Nothing more. I have seen a lot better sources and serious criticism/analysis here than anything I read there in a long time (my own personal bias notwithstanding) — and I used to be there constantly.

          • Ani

            I am not a fan of nitpicking either, particularly when there are and were so many bnig issues to take Pres. Obama to task on — such as when he did a 180 on FISA.

            But if you are goin to discuss the “lunatic fringe,” whenever I tried to go over to HuffPo or DK over the last year, the comments against Hillary were so over the top and disgusting, they truly make anything I’ve read here (negative to Obama) look soft by comparison.

            Honestly, I had to run screaming. I wanted nothing to do with their diatribes. In my view it was those two websites that long ago became a laughingstock.

            Actually, HP did even before the primary heated up — it became a sensationalist rag — you would read the title of an article and think God knows what horrors were contained therein — and then read the article and realize the text did not back up the claim of the title whatsoever. Empty rabble-rousing. Nothing more. I have seen a lot better sources and serious criticism/analysis here than anything I read there in a long time (my own personal bias notwithstanding) — and I used to be there constantly.

            • Ani

              Apologies for the double post — thought the first one went into the ether! :)

          • Disgusted

            Is 85% always right? If 85% of the country jumped off a cliff would you? Who cares what 85% of the country thinks? 20% don’t know how to tie their own shoes, 40% can not point to the United States on a map, 8% are felons in prison or on parole. I think I will stay in the 15%, thanks.

            Numbers used to make a point. No link.

          • Andrew P

            Where exactly does this “85% of the country” figure come from? MSNBC? Instapoll at HuffPo? Jon Favreau?

            I do agree that a lot of citizens are fed up with nastiness and endless namecalling—after witnessing so much of it directed at Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin, among others.

            Please.

        • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

          Peggy Sue – I agree with your comments here, and above! You nailed what I have been thinking/trying to communicate.

          This thread is FILLED with great discussion, and great comments.

    • Wisewoman

      Peggy Sue. Please do not give Obama credit for “gonna close Gitmo”. Whether you agree or disagree with the closing of the facility, until he actually closes it he can not get credit for “doing the right thing”. Its like a teacher giving you credit for saying you are going to turn in a paper a year from now. It’s Obama Spin. WHY IS HE BEING GIVEN CREDIT FOR SOMETHING HE HAS NOT DONE?

      • Peggy Sue

        Oh, I agree, Wisewoman. It’s easy to say, it’s another thing to actually do. A year is a long time. What are they going to do with those guys, sorting the bad ones from the not-so-bad ones, where will they be sent and legally what will be the outcome?

        Trust me. Obama gets no pass from me. But I was glad to hear that “the intention” right now is to close the facility; it’s been a festering sore for the country. But it remains to be seen “if” he follows through and “how” he follows through.

        Same thing with “torture techniques.” If he says no waterboarding, and then we find out that exceptions are suddenly made? He’s got some s’plaining to do.

        I was glad to hear the Global Gag Order was lifted for the sake of all women. Again, the administration has to follow through. I would have liked to have seen that announcement come out yesterday for the symbolic impact. But I’m not going to carp about it being a day late.

        Obama’s not going to be able to fall back on “words matter” alone. That might have been a good campaign schtick, but it simply won’t work in real time, in the real world.

        So, credit given where credit due. We shall see.

        I honestly hope I’m wrong about the man. Because if not? We’re in a world of trouble.

        • Wisewoman

          Again Peggy you of all people should know that with the exception of “INTENT” to close Gitmo these EOs are just a return to the same ones that Clinton signed. Why don’t you point that out in your comments? What’s up with that? By the way Hillary wanted to close Gitmo too. I just find it disturbing that the man is being given credit for policy changes that merely reverts to what Clinton did. The one involving stem cell research is one he does not want to touch with a 10 feet pole. Let congress have their say according to him. When he everturns Bush’s EO on that one, I may be able to say he has “DONE” something.

          • http://! stodgie

            to the point again wise woman.thanks

      • don

        Agree. I view his signing an ExO similar to his campaign promises. Have to wait and see if he delivers!

    • truthtelling007

      “I don’t think it’s a matter of “forgiving and forgetting,”

      Completely agree. I advocate for reason and fact base criticism so that the persuasive argument holds water. It is easy to discount someone who shows no sense of reason when they criticize a leader. That is why Bush was never impeached. Too many of his critics were completely fanatical about it to a fault.

      I covered many protests and did interviews with protesters of Bush and Cheney and very few could give you any factual background. They were committed to memes they learned at their previous rally or from a planning session or from emails.

      They’ll rant at you about 9/11 being an inside job, or PNAC, or whatever and not have any further evidence beyond the meme. So how could they be taken seriously even if their hunch was right?

      One such person screamed at me, and I mean damn near broke my ear drums, when I told him that I had been in talks with my representative about action. “He isn’t going to listen, he is one of them! They are all guilty”.
      Gee…how can you argue with failed logic like that?

      When I have extreme views, I’m fortunate to have enough feedback to give me pause about said view and see if it is unfounded. Sometimes it isn’t extreme at all, but sometimes it just needs to come back a little and give room for other options.

      Critical thinking will do more to stop a bad leader than loud mouth pitch fork driven radicalism. Ask William Ayers how his revolution is going. That sorry sack of shit still thinks he was right, and fails to recognize that he helped create the police state I now get to live in. And he fancies himself an ‘education’ expert?

  • RedDragon62

    Truthteller:

    Thank you for the great post. I have read some of the nasty comments from so-called “friends’ of this site.

    Obama himself will never get my respect but the office to which he is now installed will.
    I live in Chicago. Many of my long time friends live in the Senate seat Obama used to propel himself to national stardom. I have witnessed first hand what this man did and did not do here in Chicago and it never ceased to amaze me why so many were hell bent on forcing this man down the nations throat.

    Everytime I see one of these “Messiah Worshipping bloggers” go on and on about Obama, I ask…”have they ever REALLY known the man?” Have they lived on the south side of Chicago during the Heatwaves that killed many of his constituants because they had no air conditioning in REZCO’s apartments…His friend. Do they really know what this man’s ideology is? I suspect they will be getting a harsh lesson in reality very soon!

    No…I will not “hate” the man. But I will watch him very closly. I do not trust a damn thing that comes from his mouth. Those of us that were not stoned on the “Hopium” know all too well how far this man will go to get what is good for HIM!
    I was an early reader site. I am a constant visiter still. I enjoy the debates here but I personally will not give in to hate! There are some here that no matter what this man says or does, the hatred will trump always. Those people have issues and it is better to weed those out of this garden. Look at Daily Kooks. That site became a sewer once the filth took over. Then again, maybe it always was! Please flush the crap before it takes root here Larry. Lord knows we do not need any more sites the Kooks and TPM!

    Larry; You will always have a reader here. Keep up the good work and please continue to hold this administrations feet to the fire. Lord knows the Media wont!

  • iamcameo

    It is very rare for me to comment on any blog site but I do read many. I really like to find those that give a fair airing to different sides. I learn a lot and it does help me form opinions. What I really do HATE though is the name calling. Why do people call nasty, derisive names? I have never read any posts on this site that called Hillary Clinton or John McCain names. But not a day goes by that I don’t read dozens of posts that refer to Barak Obama by some belittling name. I understand if someone doesn’t agree with policy, politics or even personality. Hell, I had a myriad of problems with George Bush but never did I call him names. It’s irritating and quite frankly I find it childish. When I read a post that starts out with name calling I disregard anything else the poster has to say since I figure they have already proven to me that they can have no objectivity about anything the one they are posting about does. I think it’s time we all grew up and started being concerned about the condition and future of our country. I must be in the 80% of the population that just wants this nation to be its best regardless of who does it or who gets the credit. These are serious times and I know there are people on both sides of the political divide with good ideas but boy it gets real hard to hear them through all the nasty name calling.

  • JS Ruby

    I am wondering how many tax lawyers are going to use the Tim (Sec of Treas)defense for their clients? It sounds pretty solid to me. Another BO boo boo?

    • oowawa

      I assume you are referring to the “I Forgot” defense for not paying taxes. This should actually not be known as the “Tim Geithner” defense, but the “Steve Martin” defense, because it first appeared on Martin’s album Comedy Is Not Pretty:

      You.. can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You say.. “Steve.. how can I …. be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes?” First.. get a million dollars. Now.. you say, “Steve.. what do I say to the tax man when he comes to my door and says, ‘You.. have never paid taxes’?” Two simple words. Two simple words in the English language: “I forgot!”

      • Docelder

        I always tell my kids that “I didn’t know” won’t cut it in the world. I stand corrected. It would appear that we have embraced “mediocrity” if not outright “irresponsibility”. What example do we want to set for our children? what example for the rest of the world? I don’t think this is it.

  • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

    PS I think that you folks at NQ need to stop the navel gazing and analysis of your readers and just post your articles and let the readers respond as they will.

    If you go to Politico, people of all different political stripes respond and argue and it’s all OK.

    But the constant posting of articles focusing on your readers, making those of us who are still very opposed to Obama out as insane haters…well…I guess you can continue along that vein if you are dead-set determined to weed us off the site.

    The difference, BTW, between a Bush hater and an Obama hater is that a lot of the Bush hate is based in partisan politics, whereas for many of us, the Obama “hate” has to do with watching a qualified woman get pushed aside for an unqualified fraud.

    It’s upsetting to us on a visceral level, and while some of you have apparently moved on since the inauguration, many of us are still hurting. Many of us WOMEN.

    I feel like our feelings aren’t being respected here.

    I would like to stay here but I sense I’ll end up visiting less of this sort of constant barrage of veiled and not-so-veiled insults keeps up.

    Thanks for being a haven during the election…it was a good run.

    • JulieD

      What Hillary or Bust said!!!

      • Snickers

        Agreed, Hillary Or Bust and Julie D.

      • Thinker

        Hillary or Bust:

        ** Standing Ovation **

    • oowawa

      Good letter, H.O.B. I agree with your general sentiments. I do think that if everyone relaxes a bit, the forum can continue to give a voice to a range of opinions, and people will not be forced to leave. I sure do not know how things will shake out at No Quarter. I know I can live without NQ, and NQ sure doesn’t need me or anyone else. I am so full of disappointment right now, one more relatively minor loss would hardly register.

      • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

        That all sounds well and good, but I noticed when Larry, or I, voiced our opinions about what we feel, and what we hope for moving forward, we were accused of drinking the koolaid, turning this site to a pro-obama site, and worse.

        It seems that if there is even the slightest, even if misconstrued, hint of a pro-obama post, the writer is attacked and called a koolaid drinking shill for Obama. The readers here vary in their positions, and hopes for moving forward, as do the writers.

        My hope was that we would channel our energy into enacting change, and move forward. And face facts. I worked my butt off writing to *expose* Obama during the primary, and after my inaugural day post, in one second, I became a koolaid drinking, propaganda spreading sheep, forcing my opinions on others, and “forcing my crap with false ideas”? seriously?

        Hillary or Bust said, “I feel like our feelings aren’t being respected here.”

        Well, you aren’t the only one…

        This thread, however, is filled with great comments, from all points of view. And that, I think, is what we are all hoping for!!

    • WildChild

      I agree. I used to enjoy being part of a political party where everybody didn’t have to agree the each other, where dissent was considered normal… until the election of the precious. Now suddenly the same hate goggles that the fringe right wore and saw everything through for most of their reign are being donned by the fringe left and some well meaning folks here. This is a liberal democracy folks. We aren’t all supposed to agree. The face our country presents is the result of a constant and never ending struggle to define who we are. I personally choose that we define ourselves as a nation of substance rather than a nation of flash and gimmicks. That was the foundation of my opposition to the republican party and of my support for Hillary over BOBO. But I didn’t give her my support, she earned it. BOBO can do the same thing but he has yet to.

      But there is one thing he can do that he ran on that accounted for the biggest rift between liberal and progressive during this election and that’s Iraq. BOBO said he’d have the troops out in 16 months. He HAS to do that because number one, he ran on it and number two, because of all the shit Hillary took about leaving residual forces. That is his defining issue. If he doesn’t have the troops out o Iraq in 16 months I don’t care how many lesser wins he might rack up, he’s a loser and unworthy of the job.

      • Strawberrybitch

        Wildchild. The US struck Pakistan and killed 15 people with an unmanned drone. The new press secretary won’t talk about it. Meet the old boss, same as the new boss.

    • http://sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

      I agree with HOB. I know it’s your blog and I really respect that, but your leadership is manifested through your outstanding research, writing, and analysis, not through controlling other people’s emotions. And I do have to say that the response HOB got the other night was way over-the-top rude and had a shocking amount of its own hatred. It was proof that none of us is in a position to judge the other on controlling emotions.

      I don’t hate Obama, but I have a huge deficit of respect and trust for him! It is up to him to earn these things and he has failed miserably, imo. In any case, like MrX brought up, I do not want all of his policies to succeed, because certain ones would be tragic for this country. Saying “I wish him success” is a pitiable platitude. The only reason we are here is because we all care deeply about our nation, and the emotions on display simply reflect our severe anxiety and apprehension. Our emotions should be respected and constructively redirected, but never, ever suppressed.

      It is very interesting how sensitive and divisive this issue of how to move forward is. I’m so incredibly disappointed in this man (Obama). Mourning the opportunity we as a nation have lost–to find an honorable and righteous leader–is going to take some time.

    • so saddened

      thank you!

      being called churlish is not welcoming. visit often, but for articles/comments about issues, not lectures about how i’m supposed to be/think. so lately find myself on the fence about whether to delete the nq bookmark…. hope the trend reverses and don’t end up doing it.

    • Judy L. NC

      I totally agree with you, Hillary or Bust. IMHO, Larry owes you an apology for his sheer rudeness.
      Man up, Larry!

      One day NQ touts its open discourse and the next day you’ve got an Orwellian thought policeman psychobabbling about hate. WTF? I watched the inauguration so I know Obama’s my president but I won’t ever believe he’s a virgin in the whore house. Based on his treatment of Hillary during the campaign and his disrespect for his mother and grandmother, I’ve seen enough to know my needs and priorities as an older white woman are at the absolute bottom of his list. But do I hate him? It depends what the definition of “hate” is? Do we “hate” Bush?

      Larry, sure, it’s your blog and you can ban anyone you like or make rules, but please remember that what I love you and NQ for is the wide open debate I have found here which has helped broaden my world view (whether I agree or not).

    • UKforDems

      Comment by Hillary or Bust | 2009-01-23 20:16:36

      PS I think that you folks at NQ need to stop the navel gazing and analysis of your readers and just post your articles and let the readers respond as they will.

      If you go to Politico, people of all different political stripes respond and argue and it’s all OK.

      But the constant posting of articles focusing on your readers, making those of us who are still very opposed to Obama out as insane haters…well…I guess you can continue along that vein if you are dead-set determined to weed us off the site.

      The difference, BTW, between a Bush hater and an Obama hater is that a lot of the Bush hate is based in partisan politics, whereas for many of us, the Obama “hate” has to do with watching a qualified woman get pushed aside for an unqualified fraud.

      The difference between a Bush hater and one particular Obama hater I can think of is the use of language that is clearly racist, inflammatory and puts the whole board at risk.

      I am pretty sure that the World is a lot healthier when there are far fewer people who believe that tehy can rationalise their hate.

      • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

        “I am pretty sure that the World is a lot healthier when there are far fewer people who believe that tehy can rationalise their hate.”

        Then why aren’t you on KOS admonishing them to stop their Bush-hatred? Or do you only get all riled up when folks are railing against your side?

  • http://molvray.com/acid-test quixote

    iamcameo: I could never bring myself to call the Shrub by his given name. For someone who’d committed treason, trashed the Constitution, and done everything he could to kill democracy, it just felt horrible to show him that much undeserved respect.

    I have a lot of the same difficulty with –um– B0. The way he trashed the democratic process during the primaries, the way he used bigotry, the way he tacitly let his supporters do what they liked and then used the results . . . all of that and more means he makes me ill.

    He’s (so far) a long way from being in the Shrub’s class, and, yes, if he does something right (with no backtracking in the fine print) I agree 100% that credit should go where it’s due. But he beat up our poor sick democracy when it was defenceless, and I can’t get past the feeling that calling him by his given name shows too much undeserved respect.

    Try to see past the anger of those of us who hate the injustice, and look at the substance of what we say around the name-calling. You never know. There might be truth in it.

  • Seattle Moss

    The TRUTH is that some here would prefer National Suicide to prove a point. These are the same people that never read maps or fail to understand the long term strategic position of the United States with regards to US protecting the world. I’m just glad that your not in charge!
    Obama seems to get it. That’s why he is backing off on investigating and prosecuting those that have kept us safe since 911.
    Go ahead and keep talking about prosecuting…You bore me with your ignorance and lack of understanding of Geo political power and America’s sphere of influence and what that means for protecting your very life and all you hold dear.

    • Animal Control

      protecting the world

      Really? The whole world?

      • UKforDems

        I am not against prosecutions if criminal actions have taken place; however this needs to be seen in context. It will appear that the prosecutions of Regan staffers led to the Clinton impeachment, which then leads to Bush. Tit for tat.

        The Parties need to ensure that they do not fall down that trap and therefore if there is to be a prosecution, it can only be done with a full smoking gun and unfortunately not just to test the balance of probabilities.

        • Ferd Berfle

          Sigh–Another slippery-slope argument.

          If the previous administration violated the law or the Constitution, then an investigation should ensue, irrespective of possible retaliation by the other side. This sort of unreasoned argument essentially serves as justification for ignoring a legal requirement because it might lead to a backlash. If this is the case, we may as well bury our Constitution along with what few rights we have left.

          This is a nation of laws, which no man is above. If the potential exists that a wrong was done, it should be investigated, and, if warranted, the culprits located and tried. Anything else makes a mockery of our system.

    • don

      You mean sort of like maybe you better play by the rules that the mob establishes in this neighborhood or your very life and all that you hold dear will no longer exist? I thought we had a Constitution in this country that delegated some of the things certain branches of government could do but guess now we should forget about it for polical expediency so that we hold onto our life and all that we hold dear! Will you please tell me what it is that I am supposed to hold so dear? Obviously my holding onto the thought of our government and our elected officials doing what is right and obeying the laws of our land apparently no longer matters.

    • truthtelling007

      “The TRUTH is that some here would prefer National Suicide to prove a point.”

      And who would that be? I could accuse you of that, because from my view, the policies that you seem to be supporting are indeed national suicide. I don’t forget that we have only 300,000,000 citizens, in a world of 6 billion.

      In order to survive we cannot simply arm ourselves to the teeth and piss off everyone else for completely self-motivated aims. We live in this world with others.

      If we have a double standard that says, Milosevic and Pinoche are war criminals, but George Bush and Dick Cheney are Americans…then we haven’t any moral standing to be involved in other countries.

      “your ignorance and lack of understanding of Geo political power and America’s sphere of influence ”

      you’re so nice to me when you speak this way, as if it will really convert. No, I’m quite versed on this history of global power from the Mongols, the Romans, the Ottomans, the British, the Japanese, the Germans, and now American global reach. Imperialism is what you seem to advocate, the complete domination of the world to suit American ideals. This is a failed experiment. If you don’t think so, go ask those post-colonial countries. Britain is now just a small country again after centuries of domination. France, Spain, and Portugal are merely a memory in their former colonies.

      “all you hold dear”
      I hold honor above most things. Brutish behavior doesn’t get people on your side. Power without compassion only breeds envy and revenge. One day the bully with a bat will get his, and I don’t want the US to be perceived as a bully. We just left 8 years of one of the biggest bully administrations in memory. It made the Reagan years seem like dropping lilies in the fields.

      Sorry, I’ll pass on your jingoistic vision.

      • Seattle Moss

        You need to get out of Houston..It’s making you sick!

        • Seattle Moss

          Truthtelling..

          I lived in England for many years and what I can tell you is that England fought 2 world wars for the freedoms that you take for granted.The English empire the best the world has ever seen set up democracies unlike the other powers which eventually became independent on their own following English common law and the rights of man going back to 1205.
          After the bankruptcy of England and rest of Europe America took up the mantle of that great tradition first with the Marshall plan and then the security umbrella that exists today. I’m very proud of my country and make no apologies for spreading democracy which is finally taking root in Iraq.
          It’s time to give up the hate which I also had at one time against Bush, but I realize that you have a niche your playing out with your web site and that you have invested much into seeing our country punished.

  • NYC

    I don’t hate Obama. I despise him. Any problem with that? My feelings won’t change even if he does something good that someone else told him to do, maybe in exchange of another ‘something’.

    • http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

      “I don’t hate Obama. I despise him. Any problem with that?”

      Aside from being a sign of mental illness, no, NYC… no problem at all.

      • NQBlows

        Mental illness was voting for Fraud.

        • UKforDems

          Comment by NQBlows | 2009-01-24 01:41:37

          Mental illness was voting for Fraud.

          That is why Republicans led by McCain/Palin lost. I actually think McCain let the ticket down. Maybe you should run Palin next time?

          • stodghie

            maybe you should toddle off to london and take care of your numerous problems there in this case caused by new labor the so called liberals there..

      • stodghie

        ubm, i wouldn’t come on here spouting comments that can get you sued. as a big time writer, you should know better.

  • Patrick Henry

    007…

    I thought that what you said was very well written..and alto it is YOUR Opinion..I agree..I have always respected larry for being Up Front..no matter how Blunt..and I don’t always agree with him..but I Like Him..

    I have always found it very hard to Hate anyone..but I can sure dislike them if they haveBAD Habits or Bad values..or NO values..that cause me to DISRESPECT them..

    or Just not Trust them..I like the commentary here..larry and susan have raised many important issues that have stimualted the great debates that go on here at No Quarter..it is a Daily read for me..

    I don’t hate Obama..or the democrats..I was a hillary supporter and wrote her name in on my Ballot..I believe she was most Qualified and had the BACKGOUND and Bonafides that I could TRUST..

    If Obama had not run for this election Hillary would have been elected President..and probably with a greater Mandate than Barack Obama..

    Millions of her supporters of all kinds were naturally Disappointed..and rightfully alarmed about the Obama campaign considering the Issuwes raised about His Background..Known Associates..all in Chicago and known Radicals..extremists..and political and social associates of questionable character…some facing Indictments..or found guilty of federal Crimes by Now..

    ALL valid Issues that both Larry and Susan raised here..and we all debated..Resulting in NO QUARTER being Voted the Best (2nd..but thats another Story)
    Political Commentary Blog on the internet..beating all other well known Blogs…of similar Type..

    I do not know either Larry or Susan on a pwersonal Level…but have blogged here long enough to know allot about them..(unlike Obama)

    I know they are BOTH Caring..Decent people who value our freedoms,anbd Our Constitution and will hold those in Power or those running for Office Accountable…especially when there are Valid issues
    to Focus on.. during the Bush Administartion..

    And with Our nations continued Problems with Sexism and Discrimination..There were so many Valid Issues raised that REQUIRED Focus and debate..

    There are those who already come here Mocking Larry nd Susan..and this Blog..at the beginning of this thread..They know NOTHING aboput Larry and Susan..or the Unrecognized and Recognized services they have performed for the United States..with COMMENDATIONS.
    and in trying to make the United States.a better nation for ALL PEOPLE..all races..all genders..

    We have had enough BAD Government becuause the American people were Lied too..Mislead and Forgotten in the POWER game..Our Nation is facing Many Prolems and Crisis..it Requires now that Its Citizens Hold it Public servants and Candidates Feet to the Fire..

    Thanks again 007..and thank You Larry..sdusan and all Concerned Citizens who come here to participate in this debate..No matter How..

    You are doing no less than Our Founding fathers and the colonials did..

    We know trhere is no Truth to the Saying that “THE KING CAN DO NO WRONG”..Not even Barack Obama…

  • EWard

    truthteller

    You are reading us wrong! It is not about hate.

    Before the 2008 election, there was a level playing field in the MSM about the Presidential candidates. That all changed when BO was protected by journalists to assist him in gaining the Presidency as the first AA.

    Can you imagine President Bush using Acorn as a GOTV group, accepting $700 million dollars of donations (with over $200 million of donations unaccounted for), his medical, birth certificate, college records, his voting record unavailable, and the press not hounding him?

    The opponents of BO and his policies do not have a voice in the MSM. Yes, we can go to Republican talk radio, blogs, papers, and magazines. The problem is most of the country does not get their news from these sources.

    Just yesterday, the Democratic chair of a house subcommittee on creating new jobs and releasing millions of taxpayer dollars couldn’t say how many jobs this plan would create. Obama and the Dems are spending more money in the next month than we have spent in 1 year.

    If we had a press with oversight and accountablity, many of us would find comfort. Unfortunately, it is the good citizens of this country that care what happens and are writing on these blogs.

    Once you become involve in a presidential campaign, it is hard to turn your back on all the wrongdoing. We are patriots!

    • Lyn

      Just look how the MSM was on Hillary EVERY DAY, if not every hour about releasing her tax forms, or her first lady datebook, because they just KNEW they would find bad things there.(and when they didn’t we never heard about it altho they were thrilled to report she was in the WH the day of the blue dress) But the fact BO hid just about every aspect of his past?School records, senate records, ect, not one word.

    • truthtelling007

      “You are reading us wrong! It is not about hate.”

      no, there is no “us” to read here. It is more of, ‘if the shoe fits’.

      If you don’t apply in the descriptors provided above, I wasn’t discussing you. I even intentionally asked them as questions for thought.

      I do not have a generalized view of the NQ readers. That isn’t how I view anything. I can’t prevent a reader from assuming a generality outside the words I used:
      “Do we have among us those who”

      This is in the second sentence of my article above.
      Those Among Us, indicates that it isn’t the generality.

      “there was a level playing field in the MSM about the Presidential candidates”
      I heavily disagree, but because of the extreme fawning over Obama, I can see how it is easy to believe it was once level. This was indeed an extreme shift in impartiality, which I criticized all through the primary season and provided video to NQ on the topics.

      “Can you imagine President Bush using Acorn as a GOTV group”?

      Yes, I watch FoxNews and read the Wall Street Journal.

      “The opponents of BO and his policies do not have a voice in the MSM. ”
      I disagree with this, because I learned about a lot of his political past from the same sources you did before I dug deeper. But even then on the surface level there are plenty of voices that dissent against Obama. Perhaps if we considered which sources we are referring to, we’ll be able to look at better examples. MSNBC for instance, clearly in the tank for Obama, except Joe Scarborough who has credibility issues himself. But they’ve become the counter voice to FoxNews, both being rather biased in their two extremes and who both ignore very valid questions. CNN is different than either of them, but only because instead of Red V Blue, its Green v…Us.

      “Once you become involve in a presidential campaign, it is hard to turn your back on all the wrongdoing. We are patriots!”
      Then raise your voice and I’ll bring a megaphone.

  • MIckey M

    Thank you, truthtelling007, your entry was beautifully written, expressing succinctly when many of us feel, and think.

    • truthtelling007

      You’re welcome, and I hope to hear your voice.

  • jdona

    I disagree. Do I hate Obama? Hate isn’t strong enough of a word. I despise him. I loathe him. He is an intolerable, lying, racist, sexist, pig. I will not support anything he does, I will give him no credit, I will not give him the benefit of the doubt because he does not deserve it. I watched him steal his policies from Hillary Clinton and claim them as his own. I watched him ridicule and label the best President this country has seen in 50 years a racist. I watched him denigrate Hillary Clinton with his Annie Oakley comments, his periodically blue comments, his likeable enough comments, his tea parties comment, his crooked dealings with the Texas and Iowa caucuses. And then there was Acorn, William Ayers, Michael Phflegar, Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko. Sorry, I have a long memory. This man doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt, he doesn’t deserve respect, he has done NOTHING for me to change my mind, and I do indeed despise him for what he has done and for the Chicago Thug he is. I will not be a willing participant in Obama’s denigration of women. I will not give him a free pass, and by asking us to forget the past and judge him on the present and the future, that is exactly what you are asking us to do. Give him a free pass. Why don’t you just adopt the Obamaphiles calling card, and tell us to Get Over It. We all know how well that went over, huh? Obama has earned the animosity and the disgust, the resentment, and yes, the hate that people feel for him. He is a lying, sexist, racist, slimey, sleazy, crooked thug. What is there to like?

    • Animal Control

      Three cheers for the First Amendment to the U S Constitution

    • Oisafraud

      Amen Amen Amen…. You left out Obama is a bastard.

  • MrMike

    So far Barack Obama has been hitting home runs in my book re Gitmo and aid agencies that provide abortions.

    • MIckey M

      Well, the frosting is pretty, I sure hope his administration follows through, understanding the work only begins with the announcement…

    • don

      Like most of his campaign promises his ExO on closing Gitmo in a year leaves us holding out hope but I would have to question why if that was one of the planks you campaigned on why would you need a year to close it? Would seem that he and/or his adivsors would have worked many of the details so that he could have it closed within 3 or 4 months. Sort sounds to me more like well I promised I would do this so now lets put it out there far enough that we can have time to come up some ideas on how to go about closing it. Just MHO.

  • elise

    truthtelling, I can only speak for myself, but I didn’t end up at nq due to “hate” for Obama. I wanted a place where more than opinions were posted, but hard facts to support the opinions and censorship was rare. And I appreciated the support for Hillary when it was clear the blogs I had visited before had jumped on the Obama bandwagon and no longer allowed dissent of any kind.

    Now nq is not principally a blog to support Hillary, however most of the bolggers are friendly to her and have news not always readily available from other sources. I’ve noticed some commentators have left the site and I don’t know their reasons. Perhaps because they disagreed with Larry or Susan or have less time or interest. But I have continued to visit and comment occasionally even though my opinions are generally ignored and I have wondered myself, why bother?

    This post of yours isn’t the first time I have read what you have to say or noticed you want to make rules regarding what others may or may not say. In fact, I welcome the opportunity to address a comment you made not long ago re addressing the user names of other persons here and I would like to tell you, in spite of your pompous assumptions you are the only purveyor of TRUTH, there may be circumstances of which you are not aware. And, I would like to present a hypothetical situation to illustrate my point.

    Assume, for a moment, there is a person who’s username indicates a woman offering an opinion, when in fact, it is not a woman at all, but a man who harbors anger towards women. You know this is true because you discovered the truth completely by accident. Further, assume you are unable or unwilling to publicly confront this person. What would you do? Would you believe you have the right to harass this person while withholding information which could damage the blog?

    I am generally tolerant of others and I am a real old fashioned liberal, not a new progressive. More than anything, I enjoy lively debate and even those here who hold different opinions than myself energize my mind and make me laugh. I despise Obama which is quite a different thing. I hold him in contempt and will never forget what kind of person he is even when he makes a policy decision with which I agree. When he says the US will not torture, I applaud the decision even while doubting his sincerity and commitment to anyone other than himself.

    If there comes a time when I feel unable to share my feelings and opinions here, or that someone else is being denied that right, I will leave.

    • http://firefox AnnieCollier

      You said it, Elise. I didn’t come here out of hatred of Obama but disgust for the DNC and the party I had trusted for 40 years. First we were polarized by the Neocons then by our own party. I didn’t have a place to go. I was sickened by the Hillary hating, Republican hating blogs that censored anyone attempting to plead for moderation that I came here…initially to vent…then for information.

      I haven’t checked into HuffPo or DK since but today, I did. The headline at HP is about Sarah, pictures making it look as if she is standing by a plastic bag of clothes tossed out on the street. The most vile, sickening commentary I may have ever read. I don’t know what will happen if there isn’t another side. I hate the polarization but there has to be a way to fight back at the over the top pass Obama has been given. I don’t trust Obama or the Democrats. They have given me no reason to do so. I will hold them accountable and I don’t foresee a time I will ever vote for another Democrat.

      BTW, I still think we have a better chance of making a difference in the Republican party, bringing in moderates, than the Democrat party.

      • Seattle Moss

        When a party is down like the Republicans that is the very moment to reinvent it.
        The democrats think they have won it all.
        A few short years and it may be the democrats on the rocks.
        The Republicans need to be the party of equal opportunity, fairness, and respect of all people especially women.

        • http://firefox AnnieCollier

          Seattle, I hope so but when the Republicans held their Governors meeting I saw many of the men wanting to give her short shift. Suddenly we were hearing more about Bobby Jindal and other male governors. Although Sarah was given the podium and gave a good rallying call to return to conservative values, I had the feeling they were afraid of her and would attempt to marginalize her by not standing up for her. Naturally, we have to have talent or either gender but it bothered me.

          I hope they are able to pull a coup and bring back more refinement to our culture, reform and conservative fiscal policies, ethics, etc. Worth a try.

          • Seattle Moss

            Anne,
            I saw that too.
            The guys were trying to position themselves which I don’t blame…
            What needs to happen is that women need to take control of the party from the grass roots.
            This will only happen if the democrats implode from events unforeseen at this time.
            Right now I’m rooting for Hillary as an independent ex democrat. I want it to work out as I still feel that she is in the best position to become president.

      • elise

        Do you think they may be worried about 2012, Annie?

        • http://firefox AnnieCollier

          Yes, I don’t believe they have figured out how to stop the hatred and mocking of Sarah and unless she can get on the national stage in the Senate before then, she won’t be able to let people see her in action to prove she’s big enough for the job. I don’t think the occasional announcement of how she’s dealing with fiscal policies in AK will be enough. For instance, today freezing salaries and taking action to keep a balanced budget.

          • elise

            Annie, I saw how happy Republican women were at the convention when she recieved the nomination. I hope, if they believe in her, they will continue to fight. Gretta is a great advocate for Gov Palin.

      • wodiej

        funny isn’t it…all that hating against women was ok, but for God’s sake, don’t say anything negative about OBAMA…oh my…that’s so hateful. Obams supporters told us to get over it…now it’s their turn to get over it.

        • UKforDems

          We are over it. We won with 69 million votes. Cool eh?

          • Disgusted

            Good lord dude, you don’t even live in The United States. WE WON with 69 million votes. How many did you cast? Wouldn’t your time be better spent worrying about what racial remark the good prince may be saying at this very moment? This is a blog for AMERICANS about AMERICA. You don’t meet the qualifications. So run along.

          • jdona

            You won with 69 million votes, but 58 million voted against you. Millions more didn’t vote at all because they didn’t want either candidate to be President. Are you seriously suggesting those 58 million plus people have no voice, no say in the government in this country? They are not to be represented? All those millions who didn’t vote this past election, if sufficiently po’d will certainly vote in the next. What do you think Obama will accomplish with a Republican controlled Congress in 2010? Ignore them, insult them, try to marginalize them and agitate them at your own risk.

            • Ferd Berfle

              Good questions. I would certainly like to know how this mocking attitude on the part of the supporters of That One works in any sort of utilitarian way, given the promise of unity made over and over (and over) again during the runup to the election.

            • truthtelling007

              strange how when I made the case against Hamas based on this thinking, many people freaked out and insisted “palestinians voted for hamas”. Interesting how politics works and how elections are won and lost.

          • Ferd Berfle

            Another non-sequitur–the ends justify the means. Cool. You fit right in with the neocon crowd you *so* despise who said the same sort of thing in 2000. bushbot=obamabot.

            For just once on this blog, I would like to see a well-reasoned argument from the trolls as to why anyone should forget what happened during this sham of an election that focuses on what actually happened and not on our reaction to it.

            ===crickets===

            • stodghie

              i find it strange to read lectures from truth telling here. i invited him/her to write with passion about the average american. you know most us! the person who gets up goes to work everyday to feed their family and pray for a better life. and not the ones who think they are special and will kick the majority of americans to the curb while they grab theirs just like the far right just did. color me disgusted with the self righteous crap i see some on here spout all the while ignoring the problems of the average american.

              no group is special. obama is not above criticism, dislike and/or hate. i don’t hate him but i dang sure despise his actions in the election. and truthtelling if you have a problem with that shame on you for demonstating a complete lack of understanding of what freedom in this country means. it doesn’t mean kissing anyone’s butt or keeping your mouth shut because someone would be offended. let them be offended. that is their right just as it is my right to stand up for average americans which i NEVER EVER SEEN YOU DO.

              • truthtelling007

                “i invited him/her to write with passion about the average american. you know most us!”

                Well, actually I have written on this in the past. And will write on it again in the future.

                I am an average American, so I’m not writing from or about a “special” class of people unless it is the politically elite that I want to criticize. I don’t make sweeping generalizations about “average americans” ever. If someone reads that into something, I can’t prevent that.

                “obama is not above criticism”
                I never said he was. I said criticize him.

                “complete lack of understanding of what freedom in this country means”
                You mean, when I equally support dissent next to national fervor? I think you misunderstand or don’t read my words. I am saying that you have no freedom in this country if you aren’t allowed to disrespect the existing or past president. That isn’t freedom, that is coercion to loyalty.

                “let them be offended”
                Yes, and? Who wrote, “don’t express being offended?”

                It would be quite useful if people would spend less time inserting their interpretations into other’s comments. The extreme shift from asking for reason to singing kumbaya is absurd. It is filtered reading.

                That you think I am not writing about “average americans” in a positive or supportive way, indicates you haven’t understood almost anything I’ve ever written here. I come from the salt of the earth labor class and am unashamed of it. I am not a Berkley College snob. I am not elite in any way shape or form.

                Nor is my life bound by your personal filters.

                If you despise his actions in this election then we are not at all different.
                That you can’t bear witness to my critical comments about Obama over the last year…is really your misunderstanding, because I was highly critical during the primary, gone during September through end of November due to Hurricane and campaigning for independent candidates, and returned here in December.

                And the lens of “self-righteousness” is a two way lens. I’ve been watching some seriously self-righteous comments directed at me for weeks. Many of the comments here stem from people’s moral superiority. Either they are morally superior to “Obots”, towards “liberals”, towards Bush/Cheney, towards Obama, etc.

                To tell one person to watch their self-righteousness here…is rather ironic to me because most of these comments are entirely self-righteous to some measure.

                I am more indignant than self-righteous. I am often reacting to what I see as someone else’s self-righteous browbeating. My sense of morality is far less concrete that can be presented in these focused issues we talk about. I wouldn’t confuse passionate writing with self-righteousness.

                For instance, being called a ‘traitor’ by someone here indicates they think they are morally superior to me in their patriotism. To be told, “you don’t get it” implies they do and are the masthead of ‘getting it’. If I am self-righteous from time to time, I certainly have no monopoly on it.

                “my right to stand up for average americans which i NEVER EVER SEEN YOU DO.”

                You’ve suggested I don’t appreciate the concerns of the “average american” which presumes a moral superiority on your part as the champion voice of that class (which I am in). How is this not self-righteous?

                And you conclude because you personally haven’t seen this that it doesn’t happen. Sorry, that is false. It has happened here plenty and you either missed it or ignored it. That’s the past now.

                Conclusion here, I write what I feel without a whole lot of padding. I don’t presume much about people here outside what they say here. I don’t care if you are a Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative, believer or atheist. I will respond to what you write. And in trying to have a better dialogue, I will seek to understand and reflect that I understand your view. If I’ve failed to do so well in the past, it will be good exercise. I certainly have considered each and every comment made in this thread before responding.

                • http://! stodgie

                  truthtelling, let me give you some heartfelf advice, get out of our opinions. what we think and feel isn’t going to change because you think we should. in fact most will ignore you and cling to them even more. people are that way. i for one am tired of the sermons. that is what i feel many of your posts are.

                  i have read most of your posts and frankly i don’t see zeal for the common man. i don’t see symathy for the scared coal worker who fears obama is taking his livelhood away. i don’t see concern for the middle amerian who has been forgotten by the democrats in my view. fdr was one of the greatest presidents this country ever had and he was for the common man. of this there is no doubt. bush was for his base. we all know that. the kennedys went to appalachia and showed true concern and great political skill neither of which i see in obama or his supporters. so please let’s see some of that concern you profess to have. i’ll be watching this blog for and look forward to seeing all that passion for the average joe sixpack and not just gaza.

                  • truthtelling007

                    “get out of our opinions.”
                    think you take yourself too seriously and you assume some sort of ‘our’ like you speak for the group. Do you speak for a group?

                    “i have read most of your posts ”
                    No you haven’t. Or you’d know that I have already flashed you my “concern” badge.

                    “i don’t see zeal for the common man.”
                    open your eyes then

                    “i don’t see concern for the middle amerian who has been forgotten by the democrats in my view.”
                    Open your eyes then.

                    “i’ll be watching this blog for and look forward to seeing all that passion for the average joe sixpack and not just gaza.”

                    or not just the Israeli citizens that I also spoke up for?

                    I can’t help you with your one sided readings of my comments, and no, I won’t refrain from commenting on the other opinions. I’d suggest you take your own advice about thinking and reading before you type.

                    Nor will I sit here and cry you a river over causes I already hold dear just to prove my care to you. That would take you as seriously as you take yourself, too seriously.

                    • curious

                      i did appreciate that you wrote your concern for both sides in the israeli/gaza conflict. I wouldn’t worry that he didn’t. He doesn’t seem very open to anything you say, so I’d just ignore him. he’s just one of the voices here, all by himself.

                      i appreciated your comment.

  • yttik

    I don’t hate anybody. I don’t hate Bush and I don’t hate Obama. Moments of anger perhaps, but I don’t hate them.

    I live in America and I believe that hatred has no place in this country. We have so much to be grateful for. If I lived somewhere where marauding war lords were hacking people up with machetes or somewhere where I was forced to watch my children die of starvation, hatred might be warranted.

  • EWard

    MrMike

    Obama threw out a bone to the radical left when he issued the order to close Gitmo. It doesn’t mean anything. Why? When he was asked by a reporter about the future of the detainees, Obama had to look at Greg Craig (his legal counsel) just to utter the words, we are in a process of finding a solution. In other words, he doesn’t have a clue what he is doing.

    Over fifty million Americans do not have access to affordable health care. So, why are taxpayer dollars being given to countries for abortions?

    Obama has hit two foul balls!

  • obamastolemyboyfriend

    Ok, I deeply respect and admire Larry, Susan and all here at No Quarter. I cannot imagine how much work they put in for this. I came to No Quarter to get truth. I surely wasn’t getting it anywhere else. At first some of the posts were hard to believe were true because it was not in the MSM. Then many times it would show up in a delayed fashion in the MSM or at least I could verify the post. This has been invaluable to me.

    Now the problem with Obama for me is that this is wrong on so many levels for him to be in office. So many levels! That is why I am very disgusted and probably do come off as hating him. I’ll be honest in telling you that if he disappeared somehow tomorrow, I would feel nothing. When he was the nominee and his supporters were so thrilled, I was crying. I was heartbroken about what happened to Hillary because I knew then that all women I know will most likely be cast aside for a less qualified man in their endeavors. I cried for me, and friends of mine and their daughters, even the ones who were supporting Obama blindly because of what they were doing to themselves. I waited and waited for Obama to do something, anything that would prove to me he wasn’t the evil man I perceived him to be. He did nothing, but validate my perceptions. I am terrified that I will keep waiting and still nothing and then, he will get elected again. Just like Bush. It has shattered my illusions that my fellow Americans truly care about this country. I feel like such a minority. I question all the time why people have to be so ignorant about the Government and the world. Only when we all make informed choices do we succeed as a whole. It is beyond disappointing that our leaders no longer lead and spend their days feeding their greed and no longer doing their jobs as our elected representatives! They work for us and yet they seem to think that we work for them. Wake up people! We have one way to stop this and it is to have an informed majority!

    I have to add that over the many months I have been a loyal reader of No Quarter, many have commented that they know an NPD. I was married to one and I can’t tell you how nasty the divorce and custody battle got because if you are the target of an NPD, the attacks are merciless. I swear to God that Obama is an NPD and I am scared shitless. These are not the kind of people who you want to give any power to. If you have ever known an NPD, you will never trust one again. Not ever. As a matter of fact, you choose to stay as far away as possible. Unfortunately Obama was crammed down our throats and I do think he is a threat to all Americans. It’s my own personal war on terror, just like my divorce. I would love to just go into oblivion and know nothing about what Obama is doing, but I cannot. We should not let our guard down, but staying involved in this case really gets a person’s dander up!

    • NQBlows

      You guys are sick. Really. Mentally ill. This blog has posted THE TRUTH about that dirtbag Obama for almost, what, two years? Now you sick people want to embrace this idiot and “give him a chance?” Kumbaya idiots, KUMBAYA.

      The decent, hardworking, REAL AMERICANS of this country will continue to try to stop phony “President” Obama. If you freaks want to join the bandwagon, you are TRAITORS. Shame on YOU. You ALL have read the articles, seen the videos, etc. YOU KNOW WHO HE IS. How DARE you now give him a free ride? You make the real patriots of this country VOMIT.

      • truthtelling007

        The self appointed “real patriots of this country” you mean?

        Patriotism includes dissent, or we would be a British Colony.

        It is easy to forget the history of the American revolution from anachronistic views. We celebrate the establishment of this country every July 4th, but forget that the revolution itself wasn’t overly popular and many got called Traitors by those who were more loyal to the crown than the colonies.

        “Real Americans” is a way of saying, those who agree with your vision of America, not that which most honestly describes “Real Americans” which is, simply being a citizen.

        These comments are just a continuation of your blatant chauvinism.

    • UKforDems

      Comment by obamastolemyboyfriend | 2009-01-23 22:03:23

      It’s my own personal war on terror, just like my divorce. I would love to just go into oblivion and know nothing about what Obama is doing, but I cannot.

      I really do hope Larry (and others) still have you on that watch list.

      To quote from an essay on mental health, “Maturity is the ability to bear an injustice without wanting to get even. Hate and revenge on someone, will cause you to be mentally ill. You will never be happy unless you have your mind free of hate. Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “Nonviolence means avoiding not only external violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him”. The victim who will not forgive, will often live in psychological bondage to the victimizer, leading to a kind of paralysis. To forgive is to set a prisoner free and the prisoner is you.”

      • stodghie

        UK, what do you bring to the table besides your elbows and critism of a group of which you are not even a member. not that i mind reading thoughts from posters from other countries, but dang you have a number of problems in your own country right now.

        and if anyone wants to hate/dislike obama, they can. they need to do it in a respectful way for the office he holds, but criticism is needed wanted and demanded by the american people. we let bush get away with calling us unamerican because we criticized him and I DANG WELL WON’T LET ANOTHER GROUP DO THAT.

    • Ferd Berfle

      I was married to one and I can’t tell you how nasty the divorce and custody battle got because if you are the target of an NPD, the attacks are merciless.

      I, too, was married to one in the 80s. It was the single-most difficult test of will that I have ever endured. The tell-tale signs are there for those who choose not to ignore them.

  • Marley

    When there is a majority opinion or common enemy, those in the minority get stomped by the majority. I have learned here- and in most places, that if I do not buy into the current flavor, I just “try” to keep my mouth shut. I notice that I “seem” much more smart and validated when I am in agreement. When I disagree, then I have magically turned into a bot or just some stupid idiot that deserves personal insults. For example, I had some counter points to Gaza here and I was instantly accused of wanting children murdered and then another “regular” joined in to call me names, etc.

    I get sad because the personal insults on blogs (even by the writers here) turn into ugly sport and most good discussion gets lost. Admittedly, I have smacked some bots around too… easy to do when you get reinforcement and high-fives. However, I have tried to mellow and I work on being respectful.

  • Rah-Rah

    Well said. Thanks!

    I very nearly did not come back to this site after the ridiculous, ongoing, and continuous vitriol against Obama and Michelle over the most inane things following the inauguration. Frankly, it was sickening.

    If people want to take the streets in rebellion and show their distaste for this president, then let them have the courage to do just that! But posting non-stop, hateful commentary – and anonymously slamming Larry on his own blog – is not courageous. More-to-truth, it’s cowardly.

    I did not vote for Obama and hold steadfast to my belief that Clinton would have been the far better choice. But I can say, after a lot of thought and reflection, that the one person who CAN convince me that he was the right choice, through his actions from this point forward, is Obama himself.

    For my own sanity, I am willing to give him that chance.

    • wodiej

      well good for you. I see that the saga of disagreement equals hate continues.

      • truthtelling007

        “saga of disagreement equals hate continues.”

        Disagreement does not equal hate.

        • http://! stodgie

          instead of just automatically disagreeing with what you are reading here truthtelling, might i suggest you think long and hard about it. if you want history, go and look at the far right in their opening days shouting down everyone who disagreed with them intimating they were not loyal to the usa and just leave. many of us rightly feel that some of the writers here are intimating that.

          • http://! stodgie

            maybe not leave exactly but shut up and toe the verbal line so to speak. we are not loyal but haters if you will. not what i’d call cool!

            • http://! stodgie

              with due respect to talk left where i no longer go, btd though a supporter of obama has mostly been one of the first to take to account for his actions and comments. i don’t see sermons from him about those that disgree are haters. i see spirited debate about the issues. see the difference.

          • truthtelling007

            “many of us rightly feel that some of the writers here are intimating that.”

            I can’t be responsible for your “feelings” especially when I never intimated anything outside pointing at the irony in the LJ post that precipitated my comment.

            The above article was a response to Larry’s post about Hate. I will go in and update this, if it isn’t clear. But through out the reactions to his post were comments that were almost exactly like the Obots of last year.

            If you wish to ignore that and inject your own meanings, I can’t stop you. But I certainly never thought, nor feel that NQ should tell readers not go come here, or go away.

            Nor did I ‘intimate’ it.

          • truthtelling007

            “instead of just automatically disagreeing with what you are reading here….might i suggest you think long and hard about it.”

            could you demonstrate some of this behavior yourself? I do think about the comments made here. I didn’t even respond to them yesterday so as to give them all room for pause.

            next?

  • obamastolemyboyfriend

    It is hard to keep out of hate mode when it is dished at you. I heard this bit a couple of days ago and it disturbs me that our leaders are the ones who put us into categories and insult different races. They want stimulus money to creat jobs that they do not want to go to White construction workers! They actually said that! White construction workers need not apply! Hate begets hate. I hope Larry can talk to our leaders about their hate. Most democrats really seem to hate America and Americans and I wish they would find some other country that is more to their liking and go live there!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opxuUj6vFa4

    • UKforDems

      As you actually wrote hate speech that caused one of these posts, forgive me if I look that up myself. The money to regenerate the economy should not JUST go to white construction workers, if there is going to be a programme to regenerate the economy it should go to lifting as wide a group out of pverty as possible. Improving schools. Improving opportunities for all. This is not white v black, although hate sites may want to show it as that. This is making sure that this once in a life time need to kick start the economy helps all.

  • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

    Violet Socks nails what the election of 0bama means:

    The Triumph of Patriarchy

    http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2009/01/22/the-triumph-of-patriarchy/#comments

    The dominant narrative of Barack Obama’s inauguration is that it represents the triumph of civil rights for African-Americans. And it does, undeniably. It’s a transcendent moment in America’s tortured history of race relations.

    But there’s another, unacknowledged narrative. This one is about the role of men and women in the world, and about shoring up the patriarchal order. It’s about putting women in their place.

    • Karma

      Thanks for the link….

      sigh~~

  • NYC

    Comment by EWard:

    Obama threw out a bone to the radical left when he issued the order to close Gitmo. It doesn’t mean anything. Why? When he was asked by a reporter about the future of the detainees, Obama had to look at Greg Craig (his legal counsel) just to utter the words, we are in a process of finding a solution. In other words, he doesn’t have a clue what he is doing.

    Of course, he doesn’t know what to do next.

    EU nations divided on taking Guantánamo detainees

    For years, Europe has been calling on the United States government to close the Guantánamo detention center that the Bush administration established after 9/11. But now that President Barack Obama actually intends to shut it down, European governments are divided over whether they should accept any of the detainees to help the United States empty the prison.

    Foreign ministers of the 27-member European Union are scheduled to give their response Monday to Obama’s decision to halt pending military trials for 120 days and to shut Guantánamo within a year. From all signs, they are not ready to present an EU-wide stance.

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/22/europe/germany.4-413917.php

    • so saddened

      a real leader would’ve realized this in advance, rather than just saying i’ll shut it down without anticipating the ramifications and planning ways to deal with them. this kind of thinking, sadly, is above obama’s pay grade and always will be. one can only hope that the ones who pull his strings figure out what to do and how to keep him in control.

      • UKforDems

        This real Leader gave the DoD 1 year to resolve those widely known ramifications. Ordering the closure in one year is exactly what a real Leader will do and it confirms to the World that America is returning to respect for the rule of law.

        • Disgusted

          Or it could be he has no clue how to close Gitmo and this is the best he can do. Actions always speak louder than words. Obama is great in “the words dept” not so much in “the action dept”.

        • so saddened

          he was running for office for almost 2 years – perhaps he could’ve had his people thinking about this during that time, instead of thinking of ways to call people racist? sorry, your song and dance won’t fly. he’s just issuing an order to keep his left-wing supporters happy, while not actually doing anything, to keep centrists and right-wingers from calling him on ill-thought-out actions.

          • Ferd Berfle

            You are spot on. His trying to be everything to everyone during the runup to the election is going to make him ineffective at best, and lurching from one ill-considered position to another at worst.

            Checking the prevailing wind is OK when time is not of the essence or the matter to be decided is not critical.

  • Diana L. C.

    I have done much thinking tonight, and I have come to a conclusion that has been brewing on the back burner (to use a stale metaphor) for some time.

    I have decided that I must just quit thinking about American politics.

    The people who are all gaga over Obama come in two kinds: those who truly believe the hype about him and those who don’t but don’t care what methods he used to get into office, as long as they think “their” issues will be addressed.

    Those who truly believe the hype about him are also some of the many who were totally outraged over Bush’s gaining office despite Gore’s victory in the polls–and who condemned the “rigged” politics in Florida at the time. So it is strange to me that they weren’t interested in taking any efforts to look into the facts behind this last year’s rigged primary–just didn’t believe it, refused to think it could be, and accepted the party line.

    Those who didn’t believe the hype about Obama but just wanted him in office because of the issues would often say to me: “All politicians are crooked, so what?” AND THAT DIDN’T SEEM TO BOTHER THEM. They were just interested in their issues.

    I have been interested in having clean elections, ethical campaigns, honest government. Sure I would like my issues promoted, but above all the ideals of our country’s founding fathers meant far more to me. I truly believed that the majority should have their way, even if it wasn’t my way.

    So I was just terribly hurt that no one seemed upset that my participation in all the process this year was just “playing politics” after all. Nothing I could have done would make a difference. It was just as the one very annoying O delegate at our state convention asked me: “Why did you (I) come here?” He was genuinely puzzled because he knew it was pre-decided, just as O’s campaign had already filled out his ballot for the national delegate “selection.” I should not have wasted my time as far as most people were concerned. Some were just enjoying the pretense they allowed, that it was “good” that we participated.

    I had bought the story that the Dems were really more for fair play. Now I know the truth, which I should have known really from reading history: Both major parties are just concerned about winning at all costs. It’s like the old Coach Lombardi (I think that was his name) rule: “Winning is the ONLY thing.” It’s an attitude that tends to wink at cheating, gaming, stretching the rules, etc.

    And now, sadly, I’ve come to realize that the majority of the people in this country seem to feel the same way. There is little real respect for fair play, ethics, old ideals, or propriety left in this country.

    I will no longer follow politics. It’s just a game. I’ve never followed sports because the concept of competitive games always seemed strange to me. Life should have meaning. Who won the Super Bowl last year, in the long run, does not matter in history. Who won this election, in the long run, does not matter either. It’s all a game.

    • Seattle Moss

      Who’s playing in the superbowl?
      I don’t know because politics and reality are my sport of interest. Knowing what’s going on around me at all times gives me a competitive edge in business and in the community.
      I do understand how you feel…Very frustrating to watch the drones

    • http://firefox AnnieCollier

      Diane, I sometime feel just as disenchanted and disheartened as you. The friends I lost this past year, who were infuriated that I wouldn’t support the party, were obsessed by the theft of 2000 and 2004. I would sometimes get emails with long research papers on how the Diebold machines were rigged, hacked, fixed for Bush. These same people wouldn’t even discuss the DNC theft of the primary. They acted as if “pay-back” was the way of the future. And, to tell the truth that’s what we’re seeing with Obama, Reid and Pelosi. I have the feeling that if there had been a golden moment in the past eight years, the rule would be to throw it out and denigrate all concerned. Wait and see…MEchille will be the most fabulous first lady in history and Laura Bush will be a Texas hick. In truth, Mrs. Bush has hosted an elegant WH and I for one will be giving her deserved credit. I have this terrible foreboding about the present administration. When you start out cheating, not a thing can really work after that because you are perpetuating a lie.

    • elise

      Please don’t give up, Diana. We will have to decide as a majority, what kind of country we want and if it’s still possible to take back our government. Someone said months ago, we will not change until we crash and burn. If that is true, will we rebuild what we have lost or let someone else make the decision about our democracy?

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      this is one reason, in the back of my mind, why i do hope Obama fails, and becomes the worst president ever – to teach all those a lesson. It is hard though, to wish the worst on Americans, those who are struggling, and out of work, and hurting. Also to wish our image be further destroyed around the world. But, I know how you feel. It has been very, very difficult, all around. Everyone has to do what is best for them, as far as how to move forward. But, I feel your pain.

    • http://uk.yahoo.com/?fr=fptb-bt Josie

      I echo the same – don’t give up Diana.
      There are plenty of people who feel the same way as you. Just because your friends and family make you feel isolated, doesn’t mean your views arn’t valid. Maybe you have just found out the hard way that you are wiser or more idealistic than them – but thats something to be proud of! I do believe in Karma, and I believe you will be proved right, and that your friends and family will one day acknowledge this. Keep up an interest in politics because your wisdom can be passed down to the next generation. I am certain, that in 50 years time, the election of Obama, and all the ‘hating Hillary’ stuff will be seen as a particularly deranged moment in US politics – on a par with Macarthyism.

  • beachnan

    I enjoy the commentary at NQ. I enjoy the writers and I appreciate the fact that they back their commentary with facts and research. I do not think that most people hate Obama, and I am getting tired of people saying that this site is full of hate. I do think that many of us are angry with Obama, and his methods in the primary. Anybody who states that he was elected, rather than selected, is not dealing in reality. Unfortunately, as a liberal, I, as well as many others, lost our party affiliation this year. Obama and the DNC, are both to blame for the fraudulent methods that were put to use this year. I think that many of us feel that we are patriots. I was disgusted when the Supreme Court decided for George Bush in 1990, and I was equally disgusted with the DNC, when they preselected Obama this year. Our constitution is being ripped apart. Bush certainly did his part and if we aren’t vigilant, Obama will too. We need people to speak up, when others are trampling on our constitution. If we can’t have fair elections, then we might as well live in Russia. Please NQ writers and readers, don’t change. Speaking up and speaking out is what makes us who we are. Thank God for the freedom to speak our hearts and minds.

  • wodiej

    I don’t hate anyone but I’m not drinking any Kool Aid either.

    See…I was brought up that values, integrity, respect and character mean something. Obama has shown he has none of the above. His supporters show they have none or excuse those who have none.

    Respect is earned not given. Obama has earned nothing so he gets nothing. To each their own…..

  • Tricia Spiegel

    Great post! Thank you!

  • apishapa

    I’ve been reading this blog probably almost since its inception. At that time Obama wasn’t even a blip on my radar. I had never heard of him. I started reading NoQuarter because of Larry’s insightful discussions of foreign policy and his staunch support of his friend, Valerie Plame.

    I read some of Larry’s posts at other sites before they became so infected with Hillaryhate I couldn’t stomach them any more. When that happened NoQuarter became my refuge.

    Larry Johnson tells you exactly how he feels and he is never afraid to stand up for what he believes in. If you don’t like it, he never backs away from a discussion. I support that no matter how much I disagree with him sometimes.

    I still do not trust Barack Obama. I still believe we are being played in some kind of shell game where he is getting all the little gestures out of the way, but we don’t know what’s going on behind his back. I am waiting for the other shoe to fall. Like, he’ll recind the gag order… but don’t count on any kind of health care reform that does not enrich insurance companies. I kind of think we are going to get $50 billion for roads (not really all that much) …and $775 billion for bankers and tax cuts for the rich. I think he will shut down Guantanamo, …and keep open those hellholes in Afghanistan. I expect him to leave Iraq (or at least cut back), but I don’t expect our soldiers to come home. I’m not a foreign relations expert,I do not know what is the right thing to do. But, I don’t have much faith in Obama to lead the way.

    I’ve just watched the man pull too many slick moves to believe he is not going to make us pay for every little concession he makes. Maybe because he has never shown any concern for any of us in the past.

    I do however have all kinds of faith in Hillary Clinton. I hope Obama is savvy enough to let her lead the way in foreign affairs. If she screws it up, she will have to take the heat. But, I do not believe she will. Again and again, she has been proven right.

    I didn’t vote for Obama and I still think he is wrong for this nation. But I do love my country and I do not want to see us fail. I hope I am wrong and so far I am willing to admit he is making at least some of the right decisions as far as I can tell. I think he isn’t going far enough, but it’s only been three days.

    So, yes, I’ll still be here, every day. I expect you to hold Obama’s feet to the fire. At the same time, there is nothing wrong with applauding when things are done right. But, I wouldn’t turn my back on this bunch.

    • http://firefox AnnieCollier

      apishapa, I think that’s the position of Tavis Smiley’s new book coming out next month. I think the title is “Accountability”. Though he is willing to give Obama his support, he want to examine the decisions and outcomes he fosters and hold him accountable if he doesn’t deliver…in the same vein, I assume give praise when he does. I’m interested in reading the book next month.

      I, too, feel slighted that we can deliver birth control to the world (b.c.is a good thing, of course) but not laser focus first on health care and the economy for Americans. For me America comes first; before Africa, before Latin America, China, Europe and the rest of the world.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      Exactly! well said!

  • LaBonBon

    Sorry No Quarter folks, I am not as magnanimous as all of you. Prior to the 2008 election, I was a lifelong Democrat and now will never vote Democrat again. I HATE everything Obama and his minions stand for–and especially their haughty, arrogant, insufferable, intolerant attitudes. Like Rush Limbaugh, I ,too, hope he fails as his vision of this great country is NOT mine.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      I still don’t know what his vision really is…

  • EWard

    apishapa

    Kudos to your post! Your shell game comments, the lack of trust, etc. etc. all add up to the Great Pretender – aka Barack Obama.

    Very well said!

    • apishapa

      I truly believe Obama was elected to dismantle Social Security. Again and again he has talked about the need for sacrifice from all of us. I’ve already sacrificed my home to a crooked bank. He isn’t asking that banker to give me his home.

      I hope I’m wrong, but I think the Republicans learned in 2006 that a Republican cannot get rid of Social Security, it has to be done by a Democrat and if Obama does it, he can always cry “racist” of old, poor Americans try to protect their retirement.

      Cynical, I guess, but banks have been lusting afer that big pot of money for decades and they gave all kinds of money to Obama (even though they’re broke) for a reason. Not because he intends to take money away from them or because he intends to regulate them more tightly. Nope, they are expecting big payback for the big party they threw for him. Social Security is the only big pot left.

      • Ferd Berfle

        Any attempt to dismantle the Social Security System would cause a backlash the likes of which have never been seen before. The second-most self-centered group, after generation duh, is the baby boomers. They’ll keep that from ever happening by sheer numbers and voting strength. It isn’t called a third rail for nothing.

  • NQBlows

    Hey, why don’t all of you Obama supporting SCUM move to Cuba. Truthtelling? TRAITOR. I have read this person’s posts and have been APPALLED by the America hating nonsense every single post. If Larry and Susan want to join the “I hate America” bandwagon, fine. I smell that this is about money, or advertising, or SOMETHING. Because Larry started the WHITEY TAPE crap and now he is bumping fuzzies with a FRAUD. Sick stuff, really sick. If you hate Obama, you love America. Anything else is vile, filthy, disgraceful, liberal wing nut nonsense.

    • Seattle Moss

      I have read this person’s posts and have been APPALLED by the America hating nonsense every single post.

      Truthyeller believes in National Suicide!

    • UKforDems

      NQB – 69 million will not fit in Cuba. So why don’t you move?

  • NQBlows

    Let’s just call it for what it is…Larry and Susan HATE America.

    • MIckey M

      Oh, hey, I do crazy!

      Can I move in your head?

  • kgirl1028

    The opposite of love is not hate but apathy,and frankly Obama i don’t give a damn.

  • DisenfranchisedVoter

    I will continue to come to NoQuarter. I agree that I will continue to criticize Obama but I will also give credit where credit is due. I have been pleased with what I’ve seen from Obama the last week. However, I won’t forget what he did in the past. I think what he did in Chicago and in the primaries should not be completely forgotten and should remind us that we should never be surprised when Obama disappoints us. But I agree that just being hateful makes us no better than what DailyKos and many Obama supporters did to Clinton last year.

  • Steve_in_KC

    I can tell you for a fact that the writers at No Quarter are NOT of one mind. The opinions expressed by any of the writers belong to each person alone.

    This post is one that I marginally agree with and equally disagree with. I think most of us want to see the new administration make improvements, and in that sense, we should not condemn everything Obama says or does just to nay-say. But I believe most of us (the writers and the readers) distrust him, most of us dislike him, and most of us will judge him according to what he deserves, just like we always have.

    It’s my opinion that some of the writers at NQ feel a need to distance this blog from comments that are patently offensive, unpatriotic, or deliberately hateful. Others are happy to keep the fires burning. We are very different kinds of people here, again meaning the writers and the readers who comment.

    I am not yet of a conciliatory mind towards Obama or his people, but I am very happy that Hillary is now the SOS and will start mending fences. I hope that we will see steps taken by the new Democratic leadership to put the economy on its feet again. I hope we can find ways to end or substantially reduce our troop deployments in the Middle East.

    I’d love to see certain people from the Bush administration tried for their crimes, all the way to the top if that’s where it leads.

    But I can tell you that it will be a long time before I can say I feel good about Obama in any way. He got where he is by fluke and treachery, not because he did anything important or has any qualifications to be President.

    In other words, I feel pretty much about Obama as I did about Bush, and I’ve had a hell of a good time despising Bush for the last eight years, and I plan to enjoy the same antipathy for this president.

    • http://uk.yahoo.com/?fr=fptb-bt Josie

      Brilliant summary – I agree with you totally!

      I would feel petty and hateful if all I wanted to do was criticise Obama’s every move. However, I will never like him and resent him being POTUS.

  • Johnny Smithfield

    Hard to put the hate genie back in the bottle, isn’t it?

  • kgirl1028

    Realistically when you put someone like Obama in office. The smartest thing to do, is not attacking him but watch him carefully. And since the news on here is a whole lot more objective than what you see on tv. I will definately stick around. But i will warm up to a python before I do obama, the mans a snake period.

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    Bravo!

  • Jo

    I expect nothing less from someone as professional and intelligent as Larry Johnson. He is absolutely correct in his assessment. That would be the correct approach going forward. BO must evaluated on his merit and I would have confidence in Larry to provide that.
    Having said that, this is MY problem. BO has demonstrated to me that he is duplicitous. His disrespect for the Clintons is completely unacceptable to me. What the DNC and Media did to Hillary Clinton is unforgivable to me and BO sanctioned it because he is an arrogant, unprofessional, divisive politician. That’s what he is! Period. He stole the nomination from someone who is UNQUESTIONABLY more qualified and that was bad for the country.
    Now, he is in power and regardless of what I think of him, I want a source who I believe to be objective (and that’s NOquarter and Larry) to provide it. Objective reporting of what he does in office will never alter what he did to get there. Besides, what he is doing only accentuates all the things I already know. He cannot govern which is why he must have a cabinet of Clintonistas to appear to govern. Anyone shy of dick cheney would sign something to close gitmo. It is a disgrace. Don’t give him credit for the obvious.
    Remember something. I believe that BO is the Democrats’ answer to GW. If any of you have read Sidney Blumethal’s book, THE CLINTON WARS, you must remember the ONE thing Mr. Blumenthal stated in his book. And that was, “No matter how many experts President Clinton had in his office, one thing was clear. President Clinton was more expert than the experts.”
    And that folks cannot be imitated, copied, stolen, nor acquired. Therefore, anything that BO does will be measured against that indellible standard as far as I’m concerned.
    Keep up the great work, Larry.
    My two cents.
    Jo.

  • Sassy

    I’m glad this post is still up this morning…I’m not a night owl.
    Every NQ writer put every word, step, and gesture under a microscope as soon as Obama started his campaign.
    Like many others here, I took the journey from Clinton,N.Y., to McCain, Arizona, to Palin, Alaska…and all I got was a “loser” tee shirt, and a dramamine buzz.
    I dislike Obama, but my anger comes from another source.
    This country is demonstating that it is unable or unwilling to run HONEST elections. When “voters” become “non-voters”, this democracy is at risk!

  • http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/01/23/not-just-a-fair-weather-friend/#more-12107 marie

    Thank you truthteller. Visit this site sometimes and enjoy the articles, though I frequently skip the comments. The name-calling is tiresome so I just skip whatever else is written in a posting if I see insulting language — including the pet names for Obama or his wife. They really say a lot more about the poster than about the First Family.

    Criticizing an official’s actions or policy is certainly our right and responsibility; venting our irrational emotions clutters the dialogue and contributes nothing of value. Many say that they have no one else to talk to about these feelings. It could be this style of ‘venting’ is also tiresome to their friends and family.

    • truthtelling007

      Marie, just to be clear we have two bloggers here, coincidence that have similar names:
      Truthteller and Truthtelling007.
      I’m the other one, the author of this post.
      But, I love TruthTeller’s writing tremendously.

      Just clarifying that we aren’t the same person.

      “Criticizing an official’s actions or policy is certainly our right and responsibility”
      Excellent words. I’d only add, it is our duty.

  • truthorconsequences

    I disliked David Duke for the same reason I dislike Obama. One is white the other is half white but both are as prejudiced as gov Wallace. The guilt trip has been played to the hilt and is still in play as was evidenced in J. Lowery’s inaugural benediction. Obama brought the race card to his OWN inauguration. Is Obama married to his hatred?

    • UKforDems

      Comment by truthorconsequences | 2009-01-24 09:40:53

      I disliked David Duke for the same reason I dislike Obama. One is white the other is half white but both are as prejudiced as gov Wallace. The guilt trip has been played to the hilt and is still in play as was evidenced in J. Lowery’s inaugural benediction. Obama brought the race card to his OWN inauguration. Is Obama married to his hatred?

      You really can not see can you? I guess to you a Woman becoming President will have no significant impact? I guess, if one of those who fought for a Womans right to vote was still alive to be at the Inauguration of a Woman President, it would mean nothing? You think it would be man hate for someone like Jeanette Rankin to have read an early speech in defence of Womens suffrage?

      Just as the election of a Woman President would not END sexism, the election of an African American does not END racism. It does confirm that attitudes in America have changed and that individuals and legislation have beaten back the bigotry that have held so many back in such a wrong way.

      If you can really say you see nothing but ha

  • mountainaires

    Obama is just a politician, not evil incarnate. He’ll do whatever he thinks is best for Obama, for his power-base, and for his administration. I don’t think he has the courage to do the difficult things, i.e., to chart a course out of consideration of what is really best for this nation; I think he’ll inevitably bow to the political pressure of influential and powerful people who don’t have this nation’s best interests at heart. For that reason, he bears watching; people should be aware of what he’s doing to counter-balance Obama’s actions, for their own best interests.

    All the talk about what the DNC did, what they did to Hillary, etc., are irrelevant and pointless now. There are huge problems on the horizon, massive dangers ahead for this country and for every person who lives in it. What happened to Hillary Clinton is tiny compared to the risks facing Americans at this point. She will do her best and for that I’m grateful that she is at the helm of State. I trust her to do her job with regard to foreign policy implementation.

    But, I do not trust anyone–and I mean not anyone–who is leading this country at the current moment on the issue of the economic policy. We are in danger; we are not tackling those dangers with a coherent, courageous strategy for a firm future. So, watch Obama and his economic team closely; because your own personal future is at stake.

    Sorry to be so gloomy, but that is the truth. While you’re whining about Hillary and about the sexism in the media, this government is stealing your future.

    As to Larry and Susan, in my opinion, there isn’t a better blog out there, for discussion, vigorous debate and a well-rounded opinion forum. The thing I value the very most about No Quarter is an open comments structure, so that even morons like NQBlows can opine their pea-brained idiotics and expose their complete ignorance to their heart’s content. Unfortunately, we are forced to see their ugliness, and stupidity, but it’s a small price to pay [about as small as the brain they come out of] for freedom of discussion, which I value more than anything.

    I rarely disagree with Larry actually. And, Susan is one of best researchers around. I’ve read her posts since the days of Kos and Mydd, neither of which I even read anymore. And, having experienced the very same treatment from both of them that Larry and Susan did–both sites are fascist, in my view–I shared both Larry and Susan’s outrage. No Quarter was always a site I liked for its honest assessment, insider knowledge of foreign policy issues, and comment. I just think it’s even better now, with the other bloggers who’ve joined Larry’s team here.

    And, Truthteller is definitely one of the best.

    Okay, rant over, carry on…But read this:

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/01/brink-of-debt-disaster.html

  • Thinker

    Or are you interested in joining us to continue to Scrutinize Obama’s performance with clear eyes? Are you capable of giving him his due when he does the right thing? Or will this be a no win situation no matter what he may do right?

    1. Given the fact that Obama is where he is right now through the use of race-baiting, caucus fraud, stealing Hillary’s ideas, which is what he’s STILL doing right now, it’s pretty hard to give him credit for doing anything right because in the back of my mind, I will always wonder if it really came from Hillary, and the NUMEROUS Clinton people that Obama brought in.

    2. It’s starting to feel like NQ is scrutinizing the posts of its readers more than Obama, lol

    So what if apparently, a lot of your readers still don’t like Obama. All of this “chastising” is starting to get annoying.

    …It’s becoming eerily similar to the “get over it” statements we heard last year.

    • MIckey M

      What do you think about GITMO closing?

      Is it a positive step for America?

      What about the economy, should we denigrate Obama if he is taking legitimate steps to strengthen the US, strengthen US defense by addressing our true economic needs?

      Rezko is a giant pimple on Obama’s butt, Fitzgerald HAS TO CONTINUE TO INVESTIGATE, because this is the way Obama’s crimes must be addressed — it is the American way.

      But mindless whining?

      No.

      And it’s unprofessional, to boot.

      • Thinker

        My answers to your type of questions are actually in my first point.

    • Ferd Berfle

      …It’s becoming eerily similar to the “get over it” statements we heard last year.

      And the ones we heard after the 2000 election.

      There is a distinct disingenuous fallacious equivocation on the use of the term “over”. Do they mean “over” in the objective spatial/temporal sense or or “over” as in the normative “you need to find something better to do and just get over it”

      I can do the first readily. The second I take issue with.

      I will go further and state that this entire issue with “getting over” something implies that what happened can’t be helped. This is patently false. The other day, Larry likened the election of That One to the sun rising in the East. One is a physical happenstance which occurs because the earth rotates about its axis. The other is a man-made phenomemon called an election, which is not subject in any real sense to the laws of astrophysics and which could have had a different outcome. If one “gets over it” as recommended, it not only may happen again the in future–but will.

      Sorry, but I will not forget this gaming of the system simply because I refuse to be fooled again.

      • oowawa

        Yes.

        “Get over it” is not always good advice.
        For one thing, it is usually not meant as advice, but as a supercilious mocking insult: “Crybaby. Loser.”
        Victims of abuse should rightly take offense at this “advice.”
        We shouldn’t get over being abused or cheated, but remember it clearly so that we can enhance our vigilance.

        • Ferd Berfle

          We shouldn’t get over being abused or cheated, but remember it clearly so that we can enhance our vigilance.

          Exactly. What gets me is that those who were responsible for this bit of chicanery were also the ones who screamed loudest about the 2000 fiasco. Nothing like the old two-wrongs-make-a-right bit of rationalization to justify wrong-headed acts.

        • Ferd Berfle

          supercilious mocking

          An excellent phrase, which goes to the heart of their position. It isn’t meant to enlighten or works towards any sort of reconciliation with those of us who were had-it was meant to mock, just like the neocon finger-wagging in 2000.

          • oowawa

            just like the neocon finger-wagging in 2000.

            Yep. I never did “get over” that. Never did get over the victory dance in the endzone in 2004 either.

    • http://! stodgie

      i agree thinker. i am tired of being told it is my job to support obama. no, it isn’t. ever heard of the loyal opposition? it is silly to even intimate that. i go to church on sunday(when i go) for sermons. i don’t want or need them hear. i don’t want a lecture on how i feel. that sounds so like 1984 to me.

      it is the job of citizens to see that their government doesn’t break the law and does their job. period! since when are we supposed to love the great leader?

  • stodghie

    i think that the writers/posters here have a right to their ideas and thoughts. i also expect for the bloggers here who remain inside the confines of courtesy and refrain from posting unacceptable posts to be able to express their ideas, criticisms and concerns without being preached at with the implied idea that somehow we are damning america very much in the same context as the far right did. to be frank, i have seen some indications of that recently not from larry or susan but others. this support obama or else mindset leaves me saying what is your real purpose? to insure that america makes it and prospers? i don’t see how shuting people up is a positive thing for anyone. no larry is not that type of blog master. he is one of the most liberal in allowing discussion i know. i am saying that the mindset of some writers leaves me with red flags flying.

    the far right tried to force their ideas down our throats using patriotism and religeous influence to do it. the far left has a long history of the same mindset. i see some indications of it here and definitely in the media. very troubling to me.

    • UKforDems

      Comment by stodghie | 2009-01-24 13:09:20

      i think that the writers/posters here have a right to their ideas and thoughts. i also expect for the bloggers here who remain inside the confines of courtesy and refrain from posting unacceptable posts to be able to express their ideas, criticisms and concerns without being preached at with the implied idea that somehow we are damning america very much in the same context as the far right did. to be frank, i have seen some indications of that recently not from larry or susan but others. this support obama or else mindset leaves me saying what is your real purpose? to insure that america makes it and prospers? i don’t see how shuting people up is a positive thing for anyone. no larry is not that type of blog master. he is one of the most liberal in allowing discussion i know. i am saying that the mindset of some writers leaves me with red flags flying.

      I think the part in bold is key.

      • http://! stodgie

        actually uk all of it is key in my view.

    • curious

      you are so full of it. you don’t see how you appear then either. you are a contradiction of everything you wrote here. you jump on people who express different opinions. I hesitate to even join in to conversations here because of people like you. “support obama or else?” not on this site. if you don’t like shutting people down, then why do you do it? you need a fucking reality check!

      • http://! stodgie

        you have never corresponded with me. yet you prance on here with bull like that. take a long hike.

        don’t blame others because you are ineffectual in communication. that’s right, blame someone else. whining is so mature.

  • foxx

    I hate Obama and the people who put him in office. Because of what they did to Hillary and all women. And because of the crooked, fraudulent, ugly person he is and campaign he ran. That will not change, any more than my feminism will disappear.

    It doesn’t cloud my judgment of how good a job he will be doing. It is possible to have emotions and judgment at the same time.

    The real problem with Obama is economics. He is in the pay of the same people Bush was. His economic appointments are terrible and ominous.

  • ILBlue

    I do not post very much here, personally but read none the less.

    I read the front page part of this and that was enough. It came off as condescending and insulting to the regular bloggers here.

    I of course don’t know Larry personally like the majority of us here, but I like and respect him.

    I can not judge Obama based on his daugters views, especailly since I don’t WATCH MSM anymore since March. I know when I’m being lied to and told what I should think and feel and won’t help their ratings. I used to have 2 TV’s on so I wouldn’t miss anything as I did other things around my house. That no longer happens .

    And what his daughters say or do has nothing to do with anything in forming my opinion of Obama.

    How many of us on this blog have any notion of “Hate?”. I don’t think too many of us do, it’s a very strong word and very extreme emotion.

    SO stop referring to discussions of dislike for Obama and his character or lack there of as “Hate” and maybe I can then continue to read the rest of your article and Larry’s for that matter.

    With all due respect,
    ILBlue

    • http://! stodgie

      ilblue, thanks and i agree with you. i go to church for sermons and come here for debates. i don’t care to be called a hater because i don’t like someone’s actions. i do hate what the usa is becoming and i also hate the far left trying to stuff their ideas down our throats with such self righteous zeal. it bears a great resemblance to the actions and voice of the far right.

      • truthtelling007

        well, I never called you a hater, but you might want to look at your rhetoric a bit before you go on:

        “i don’t care to be called a hater”
        “i do hate what the usa is becoming”
        “i also hate the far left trying”

        if the shoe fits. But I never called you a hater.

        • http://! stodgie

          truthtelling, after checking the number of times you use the word hate in your diary or allude to it, i’d tone down my rhetoric and get off preaching all the time. boring!

          you bring the subject up and yet get all bummed out when we respond. nice!

          • truthtelling007

            you failed to show where I called you a hater.
            and I’m not “bummed out”. You project too much.

            • http://! stodgie

              yeah sure! we all are projecting about your diary. we need to tone down but not you. never you! you never go over the top in preaching at everyone? you do. read the comments here. people say you are insulting. you use the term hate overmuch.
              you don’t impress!

        • http://! stodgie

          yes you are calling me a hater. and i don’t apologize for hating what is happening to my country. you have a problem with that, then you are the problem. dang, you are going off the deep end.

      • curious

        call you a hater? noooo…not with the words you already write. ‘i do hate’, ‘i also hate’…no..you a hater?

    • truthtelling007

      “SO stop referring to discussions of dislike for Obama and his character or lack there of as “Hate” ”

      Nobody did.

  • NYC

    Who is truthtelling007? The same from the cheneywatch.com site that hates Dick Cheney? Just curious.

    • truthtelling007

      I don’t hate dick cheney, and never will. Demonstrating the criminality of someones actions isn’t hatred, though you could be hateful.

      You might have that hyperbole button on your keyboard. I’d turn it off.

    • curious

      what is hateful about cheneywatch? is dick cheney above the law? if that is hate…then I guess I don’t know what hate is. i just went there and didn’t see any hate. and last week when I told cheneywatch that i wanted to see cheney face the penalty for war crimes, the author, presumably truthteller, said, don’t wish for his death, that isn’t right.

      sorry, but their site isn’t hateful. accountability isn’t hateful just by being accountability.

      • truthtelling007

        “last week when I told cheneywatch that i wanted to see cheney face the penalty for war crimes”

        I don’t know which one you were because lots of people have been writing this sort of thing to us. But as I wrote in the article above, hating Dick Cheney would be a purely selfish pursuit. It doesn’t prove his crimes and hold him accountable. Same with George Bush. It would also be used against you in the court of rational debate. I do understand your frustration about him, and I hope we responded to you with consideration of that frustration. thanks.

  • NYC

    Comment by truthtelling007 | 2009-01-24 21:00:57

    I don’t hate dick cheney, and never will. Demonstrating the criminality of someones actions isn’t hatred, though you could be hateful.

    I see. The law of the funnel… nice!

  • NYC

    La Ley del Embudo (the Law of the Funnel):

    http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_del_embudo