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$200 million for condoms?

By American Girl in Italy on January 27, 2009 at 10:50 PM in Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, stimulus tax package

Personally, and this may not be a popular opinion here, but I hope that Obama does cut the $200M for contraceptives from the stimulus package. (Talk about pork!) And I’ll tell ya why.

Obama talks lot about responsibility, and accountability, especially during these difficult times.

“In the course of our history, only a handful of generations have been asked to confront challenges as serious as the ones we face right now. Our nation is at war. Our economy is in crisis. Millions of Americans are losing their jobs and their homes. . . . And most of all, they are anxious and uncertain about the future — about whether this generation of Americans will be able to pass on what’s best about this country to our children and their children,” Obama said. “I won’t pretend that meeting any one of these challenges will be easy. . . . despite all of this — despite the enormity of the task that lies ahead — I stand here today as hopeful as ever that the United States of America will endure — that it will prevail — that the dream of our founders will live on in our time.”

It is a message that his supporters embraced, and voted for. He won over the hearts, we are told, of the young, minorities, the rich and poor. Perhaps this is the perfect time for him to talk to them about that personal responsibility.

If young women (the target group Pelosi said this birth control was for) can not afford birth control during this economic downturn, they do have some options available to them.

~ Tell their partner that they need them to pay for their birth control.
~ If they do not have a husband/boyfriend/steady partner, and they can not afford birth control, they can give it a rest, and take a hiatus from sex. Give it up for lent. (er, give up giving it up)
~ If they are too young, and can’t afford birth control, then they are in the same position than before, and this has nothing to do with the economic downturn.
~ Google *free condoms* and you will find an unending supply, readily available.

People are losing their jobs and their homes, giving up day care, home insurance, car insurance, and healthy/decent food, and heat. A 93 year old man died the other day, in his apartment. He couldn’t afford his heating bill so the power company switched off his heat. He slowly, and painfully, froze to death.

I’m not sure if one of the top priorities facing the country right now is ensuring people can still get laid.

I suppose you can argue that the $200 Million is not just to allow people to *keep on keeping on*, but to prevent STD’s and unwanted pregnancies. But, come on, if a female can’t afford birth control, and there is a male who wants to have sex with said female, I bet said male can cough up a condom, pdq.

And I know this isn’t all about condoms, but also the Pill, but people are having to make tough decisions, and sacrifices, like *food or heat*. I don’t think *condom or pill* can really compare.

Chocolate, cigarettes and alcohol sales remain strong and steady, despite the downturn. (not to mention the recent boom in gun sales.) If there is still money for drinking, smoking, and chocolate, I think there is money for birth control.

And maybe instead of using that hour (half hour, 20 minutes, five minutes?) for sex, people can use that time to look for a job, make calls, pound the pavement, search Monster, call head hunters. Or exercise, play with their kids, start a garden, read a book, do homework, knit a hat, visit an elderly neighbor….

If this new President, and all those who voted for him, agree with the message that people need to step up and take responsibility, then I think this is a good place to start. There are options available. Heck, sex is an option. (can you tell I’m married?)

But, food is not an option. Heat is not an option.

“What is required of us now is a new era of responsibility — a recognition, on the part of every American, that we have duties to ourselves, our nation, and the world, duties that we do not grudgingly accept but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowledge that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of our character, than giving our all to a difficult task,” Obama said

So, to paraphrase Obama, perhaps we need to *gladly seize a little more of the duties unto ourselves*, and a little less of *giving our all*.

For the good of the country.

(and you know, I heard Bob Beckel on FOX yesterday say, “If you don’t have as many children, [for] example, in poor areas, that’s going to cost you less money.” That just rubbed me the wrong way…)

Here’s Cavuto, discussing Pelosi, and the pork.

  • Rich

    There’s so much rape and sexual assault and even just pressure to consent just to fit in and not suffer other kinds of humiliation in our society I don’t think it’s fair to young women to tell them to make better choices. It’s not odd for me to say that as a male: it’s because I’m a guy that I’m able to be honest about just what many if not most females are up against.

    If more condoms being available makes things a little bit safer for women, that’s not a bad thing, and is worth more than investing in missiles. OTOH, I do know that pimps and sex industry barons get to promote themselves a lot, getting free advertising for themselves, under the guise of condom distribution — so yeah, even that can be turned towards hurting women.

    • Docelder

      You know, until now I never thought of that point… taxpayer money buying the condoms that pimps hand out to their girls on the streets. That one does not give me a warm fuzzy. But we are also probably buying the needles that they use for heroin. sigh.

    • Hank

      You’re absolutely right. I understand criticizing the inclusion of birth control and STD prevention in this particular stimulus package. But to belittle the whole concept altogether–”I’m not sure if one of the top priorities facing the country right now is ensuring people can still get laid”–well, I think that’s just really trivializing the problems our young people face when it comes to sex, unwanted pregnancies, and STDs.

      The truth is, they’re going to do it one way or another.

    • andrew191

      I didn’t realize it was the Pelosi $200,000,000 for condoms for rapists and pimps program, that’s different. That should certainly be included in an economic “stimulous” bill.

    • Winston

      Flood the world with condums so that rapists will be more inclined to;

      Stop, open package, place it on his pp, make sure it is the right color and ribbing for her enjoyment. And we must teach the rapists to dispose of the packaging in an environmentally safe way. We can teach rapists to make better choices. But it is nor fair to tell women to make better choices; like hanging around half naked with violent gang-bangers. Not.

      What lunacy.

    • wodiej

      do you really think a sexual assailant is going to put on a condom or allow his victim to offer him one?? Please.

  • MrMike

    Hmm, how many does $2 M buy? If these are like those $600 government hammers probably not that many.

  • andrew191

    Thankyou AGII, that is the type of message that needs to be sent. Whenever I’ve made similar suggestions I’ve been called a prude, cold hearted, and yes, a sexist pig. And that was from my daughter,(kidding).

    I’ve always found it paradoxical that the same people that squeal for the government to get out of our bedrooms, are also the same people that invite the government right back into our bedrooms with birth control and sex-ed programs.

    As long as the government meddles in family and social matters, people will never fully rise to their own potential and responsibility for adressing their own issues as they see fit, and they will never truly realize the profound rewards they’ll receive by solving family and social problems without government help.

    • JozefAL

      Paradoxically, the same people who MOST scream to get the government into our bedrooms (as in a federal amendment to ban same-sex marriage or one to ban abortion) are also the ones who scream the loudest AGAINST sex education programs in the schools (in their mind, that’s supposed to be the parents’ responsibility–there’s that word again–but far too many parents are far too willing to abdicate their own responsibility to educate their children so, for all practical purposes, no one gets educated).
      What’s truly amazing is how people tend to forget how frequently government works BOTH ways.

      • andrew191

        Actually, you have helped to make my point when you say that far too many parents are far too willing to abdicate their own responsibility to educate their children. I firmly believe that people are increasingly dependant upon pervasive government programs to address the functions that that we should handle ourselves. I home schooled my children, I’ve done my best to provide for them, protect them, and be an honorable person for them to emulate. I think I would have felt robbed and diminished in that role if big brother had stepped in and thrown his weight around. Too many people nowdays faithfully believe that government is there to take care of all their needs, they’ll never grow up, and they’ll never know the joy of self-fulfillment.

  • Hank

    Wow, this is one of the most ignorant posts ever put on the internet.

    • Docelder

      I am still waiting patiently for the “pull your pants up above the level of your underwear” and get a belt or else pants that fit, so that one extremity is not permanently relegated to “pants duty” and get a job thread myself. Somebody needs to say it.

      • lorac

        I did once hear Obama say something like “and pull up your pants, brother”. That was one thing I liked that he said.

        Many kids think they’re discriminated against because of their ethnicity or color, when it may actually be their appearance and demeanor. We all learned as a kid that we had to look and behave a certain way to get a job – even a “kids’ job”. No one seems to teach that to kids now, and if they are a minority kid, they tend to assume that reactions to immature/disrespectful behavior and slovenly attire are racial.

        If Obama wants to keep pretending that he is “post-racial”, I really think he should address kids (who mostly supported him), and tell them a few things their parents and communities apparently didn’t.

        • NoBamaNoWay

          exactly; maybe it’s time people started saying this stuff; to heck with the “racism” canard.

    • I Just Don’t Get It

      Hank, only because of Obama and Pelosi’s ignorance that in a looming depression they are spending 200 Million on CONDOMS. Now I know why the Chinese, Russians, Canadians, British, etc. call the election of Obama a “sham.”

  • SJ

    I kept telling myself that I would give this Obama administration a chance and see how it goes, but I am about just fed up and wish that election was just a day away,

    Between this crap of the condoms, and the all my family are Muslims I just don’t know how much more nonsense I will have to endure until people can vote again and get this man out of office.

    If it was not such a serious matter I would be rolling over laughing at the biggest con job put on the American people and what suckers some of us are some of us bought all this crap and did not bat an eye, I guess maybe some Americans are really gluttons for punishment.

  • SJ

    Oh well why complain Obama knows what is best for us did the media not tell us so

  • Rich

    “taxpayer money buying the condoms that pimps hand out to their girls on the streets. ”

    No, that’s not what happens. The pimps (who run “sex worker unions”) hand the condoms out to college kids (and feminists who make scads of money by being “feminists”) and then those people grow up — sort of — to write all kinds of magazine articles about how great prostitution is and how beneficial it is for society.

    The women on the streets are allowed to die of HIV because that’s slower than getting beaten to death by a trick that doesn’t want to use a condom.

  • Rich

    Please don’t construe my above comment as being anti-feminist: I’m just saying that feminists who *actually* fight patriarchy don’t get big bucks and book deals and legions of adoring male fans. Sad but true.

    • FranSC

      Rich: Feminists who make scads of money?? Fight patriarchy?? What are you talking about?? As a long-time feminist, these statements make no sense what so ever. Feminism is not about handing out condoms. Neither is it about fighting father figures.

      Many younger women describe themselves as feminists BECAUSE they believe in abortion. THAT is NOT correct. Reproductive freedom became an aspect of feminism, but the feminist movement started to give women first of all, the right to vote. Then in the late 60′s, early 70′s women organized bipartisan groups to fight for the same rights that men have – equal pay for equal work, getting women elected to political office, lobbying to put women on boards and commissions, and breaking through the glass ceilings of corporate America with women in corporate board rooms.

      The choice issue came later. I for one feel we have lost many women who would otherwise be for the core feminist ideals that I mentioned earlier. But we have been greatly divided with the abortion issue. It is my belief that the choice issue of abortion should be its own movement. Women and male feminists need to band together to make more progress on the core issues. What good is freedom to have an abortion if you still make 73 cents for every $1 a man makes?

      BTW, I agree, the $200 Million needs to be cut for condoms in the stimulus package. I believe that would fall in the category of earmarks/pork. Forget it!

      • Janet in Texas

        The whole package looks like pork — more of the same, same, same. I am sick of hearing about responsibility for working people — I want to hear about the responsibility of billionaires, investors, and big corporations to pay people what it takes to live here! If they can’t make a buck without ruining the enviroment and/or turning citizens into slaves, then too bad — they don’t deserve to be in business or make one cent.

  • djmm

    Think of it this way: just make sure they buy American condoms and then all the money will stay in the US.

    But this is also a cost savings measure: sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted children cost more than condoms.

    djmm

    • Hank

      But this is also a cost savings measure: sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted children cost more than condoms.

      That’s right.

      • Docelder

        Then maybe we ought to have free condom dispensers at the Post Office? We could just raise stamps by twenty cents to pay for it. ;) Or, if we weren’t putting band-aids on everybody’s butts every time they were personally irresponsible… then they might actually be responsible for themselves. They might be forced to be.

        • Hank

          You can have your expectation of personal responsibility from uneducated teenagers. You’ll get a nice whipped dollop of herpes, gonorrhea, clamydia, unwanted pregnancies, and AIDS on top as a bonus.

          There are things we should leave up to personal responsibility alone. Disease epidemics aren’t one of them.

          • I Just Don’t Get It

            So, Hank, you are going to go on the bedroom raids to assure they are used? What a joke. Prostitutes often don’t use condoms because their CLIENTS don’t want them. How about the fact that many of these people are stoned or drunk when they engage, so do you think they will REMEMBER to use a condom? Wow. How stupid.

            There are a million reasons a person with a brain would know that this is ridiculous. Yes, I advocate Planned Parenthood, etc. And doing the best we can to educate people. But, like Obama’s 200 Million Dollar blow smoke up his rear parties, it’s NOT THE TIME for this crap.

            I STILL have no idea WTF Obama and his crooks are doing to help AMERICA get out of the hole. But, let’s see, if you add up Obama’s ridiculous parties, and his condom festival, that right there is about 1/2 Billion Dollars. Do you NOT think that we could find a BETTER WAY to help Americans with that money? No, because the drunken sailor of the US Titanic has America’s checkbook in his dirty paws.

        • Winston

          You still would have to lick the stamp but not that other thing, unless of course it is flavored. Now that’s the ticket. Free flavored condums. We will let the government decide which flavors are best for us in their centralized condum planning department. But we would need a $100 million investment in flavor research.

          • wodiej

            LMAO!! oh geez…..that was good!

      • I Just Don’t Get It

        You can’t reason with Bots. It’s called a DEPRESSION COMING. People are COMMITTING SUICIDE every day because they can’t feed their families. There’s no way any brain dead Bot can justify this lunacy. Do you people not get that we are beyond BROKE? That we are teetering on the brink of the dollar being completely destroyed? And you’re talking about condoms people won’t use ANYWAY? Are you sick?

        • wodiej

          stupid is as stupid does.

  • bayareavoter

    The idea of govt money for condoms is not the problem for me. It’s that it’s just an example of one of the ridiculous things thrown into the so-called stimulus pkg. This is not what we need to spend money on at this time.

    • TeakwoodKite

      I guess Flint got his bailout…

      Where the condoms made in China?

  • cynic

    Assuming that an individual HIV+ patient gets access to adequate medical treatment for the condition, he or she can expect an average increased life expectency of 24 years, at an average lifetime cost of $618,900. Under our current health care system, a significant part of treatment costs are bourn directly or indirectly by public funds.

    How many instances of unprotected sex might be averted by the expenditure of $200,000,000 for a condom program?

    How many HIV infections might be avoided as a result? (Remember, this is purely a matter of demographics and epidemiology. We’ll leave sexual morality out of the question.)

    Do the arithmetic. If a mere 325 infections are averted as a result of the $200 million expenditure, the program has already more than paid for itself. The likelihood is that a far greater number of infections would be avoided.

    When examined in such terms, this seems to me like an astonishingly wise use of taxpayer money.

    If my logic is faulty, please feel free to demonstrate where.

    • Hank

      You’re absolutely right in every way. I’m still shocked by how cavalier this column was.

    • Winston

      Your analysis is typical of linear thinking. You have ignored the fact the mere availability of condums would INCREASE sexual activity. Since condums are not 100% effective (even when used), a small increase in activity could result in well more than 325 additional cases of infection. This would nullify your claim.

      You are doing arithmetic assuming complete independence of all variables when such is not the case. You need to use partial differential equations, not arithmetic.

      This is what is is scary about people who have little knowledge of computational dynamics and why forecasts are difficult even for specialist in the field.

      In short your analysis is an over simplification and sounds so much like governement speak.

      • cynic

        My argument is nothing more than simplification to the point of common sense.

        I would suggest that yours might be ignoring something about human sexual behavior: Those prone to impulsive activity are often opportunists, and engage in more spontaneous risky behavior. If a condom is present, it might well be used. If it isn’t present it definitely won’t be, but the odds of sexual activity still remain high. STD vectors clearly demonstrate this.

        • I Just Don’t Get It

          “If a condom is present it MIGHT WELL BE USED.” On the off chance that someone who is drunk, stoned, or just plain too busy, MIGHT use a condom…hmmmm…great reason to let the already BORN babies starve and die so we can spend 200 Million on those BS condoms someone “might” use. ROFLMAO.

        • Winston

          My argument is nothing more than simplification to the point of common sense.

          Which is why there is nothing more insidious than a false simplicity. Have you ever heard of the Law of unintended consequences? It exists because fools use linear thinking and over simplify things to the point where they are incapable of diagnosis and thus make rash remedy.

          You assume that sexual activity has a flat-line independence and that condums are 100% effective. Neither is true. And there are other flaws in your argument as well but this is sufficient to render it not only worse than useless, but dangerous.

          • cynic

            I’m not a statistician. Be that as it may, common sense and general knowledge strongly suggest a sexually active person is far safer using a condom than not. Sexually active people who ignore that simple observation are engaging in a game analogous to Russian Roulette.

            • lark

              That’s why you have a dependence on statistics. Statisticians do not believe in statistics. They just work them out to make a living. Statistics become irrelevant even before they are completed and committed to publication.

            • NoBamaNoWay

              if you can’t afford a box of condoms, you can’t afford to be having sex. jeezus christ.

    • wodiej

      do you really believe people get AIDS because they can’t afford condoms?? That’s is pretty naive. People don’t use condoms because they are irresponsible, plain and simple.

  • Peggy Sue

    Hard position, AGI. But I think I understand where you’re coming from. And if “words matter,” then certainly the Obama quotes you cite are applicable.

    I take a slightly different track. I do think women’s health care is important, and that includes family planning, contraceptives and broad-based OBGYN information and clinic services. But I do not think tacking this onto an economic stimulus package is the right way to go. I cringed listening to the tortured reasoning Pelosi gave during her interview.

    This isn’t an issue that should be slipped beneath the back door or called something it isn’t. It’s one that we need to have real discussion and debate on. If we wish to reduce the number of abortions [and I think most reasonable people do] then contraception and information is the key. If we want to reduce the number of young, unwed mothers, then again this is a key issue.

    I noted that the woman speaking to Cavuto said, “well, if we don’t get it now, we’ll never get it.”

    Really? I thought Obama was pro-women? I thought the Dems, who proudly claim to be women’s advocates, had the Congressional majority? Why the sudden desperation? Or are they all talk, no walk. And how is this different than any other piece of legislation we’ve seen come down the pike?

    New era? Doesn’t look like it. Looks like the same porkers are at the trough.

    I don’t like being bashed with the fear factor [now or never] and I don’t like an economic stimulus package studded with things that haven’t anything to do with a so-called stimulus [financial, that is].

    So, though I support the programs, they simply don’t belong in this bill.

  • Sammie

    Under normal circumstances, I would support family planning/contraception initiatives. However, I don’t think it was appropriate to add this program to the stimulus package. In light of the serious economic conditions we’re facing (and we’re told nightly that this is the worst since the Depression), the argument for including the funding as stimulus just doesn’t stand up (the Democrats might as well have put a target on their backs for the Republicans to shoot … and the jokes just seem to write themselves).

    Pelosi certainly could have defended the program better (perhaps by clearly explaining it was to help the states meet the needs of low income individuals who couldn’t afford family planning services on their own). As it stands now, she is being compared to Chairman Mao.

    • Docelder

      As it stands now, she is being compared to Chairman Mao

      It’s the intent that dictates that designation. Most people here in favor of this spending want it with a good intent. i.e. to lessen std’s. But, some others in Washington seem to have implied a vastly less noble intent, to keep the “lower end” of the gene pool from multiplying.

  • DinoSilver

    This whole issue has been the subject of much discussion all over the internet – mostly I think bacause people all over are hurting financially (OK – some have lost everything) our government is throwing everything out there because no one has a clue how to fix this. People are mad that money used last year for the stimulus package as well as the TARP program ended up doing nothing. It’s like running back into a burning house to retreive a special gizmo. Yes, the item is worth something, but common sense says to keep away from the flames.

  • TeakwoodKite

    What’s the difference between pork and a “bailout” nothing but more of the same.

    The irony is Bush did not use one and BO…?

  • I Just Don’t Get It

    Can someone please explain why we are having this discussion? AMERICAN CITIZENS are having trouble getting jobs, paying bills, keeping their cars and homes. And the left wants to buy a bazillion dollars worth of condoms? I can’t wait until every Democrat is run out of Congress and Nancy Pelosi is put in a straightjacket where she belongs. This is just plain wrong.

    • cynic

      Actually further discussion is moot. Earlier this evening the democrats dropped from their proposed stimulus package the $200 million that would have gone to state Medicaid programs to fund womens’ reproductive services. Evidently the GOP’s mocking characterization of it as a “plan to buy poor people condoms” punched the desired buttons. The logic that a $200 million investment would have undoubtably saved both lives and far more than $200 million in public healthcare costs couldn’t overcome all the conservative spin. Apparently programs that could save millions of taxpayer dollars have no damn business being included in a rational economic simulus package.

      Womens’ advocacy groups are justifiably outraged. No doubt democrats will now accused of misogyny for for dropping their proposal.

      Anything else about the economic stimulus package we don’t like? Maybe if we work hard, we can eventually get it down to something rational. Say, more tax cuts for the rich, oil and coal industry subsidies, and bail outs for investment companies that have been run into the ground by greedy CEOs…

      • Winston

        Your entire argument has all the solidity of Jello(TM). Read my reply to your “logic” above.

        And your attempt to create a straw man (the evil conservatives, tax cuts for the rich, big oil) is to deflect criticism of as bloated stimulus package. The bold assertion that further discussion is moot, it so very progressive of you.

        So I will go ad hominum; you are total freaking buffoon. Your type of thinking and sophistry is nauseating.

        $200 million for condums is truly a STIMULUS PACKAGE that would increase risky sexual behaviour, MORON.

        • cynic

          I only said it was moot because the proposal has already been dropped.

          More tax cuts for the rich, oil and coal industry subsidies, etc, is basically an observation about recent history. Yeah, it was intended to be a jab. I don’t much approve of past republican-majority behavior. Please forgive my residual anger.

          So far as the ad hominum attack goes… Well, something about ducks and water.

          • I Just Don’t Get It

            Then maybe you should ask the Dems like Pelosi, Raines, Dodd, Obama, Frank, Rambo Rahm, etc. why they are multi-millionaires, lining their pockets off the taxpayers backs? Hmmmm…Maybe Fannie and Freddie destroyed the country? The Dem “make the banks give homes away for free” nonsense. You people need to stop being mad that some people have money and you don’t. Oops, it’s Nancy Pelosi who has 62 Million Dollars and you don’t. But it’s the GOP who shouldn’t have any money, right?

            • NoBamaNoWay

              word; some naive fools persist in the belief that dems are actually out to help the little people. they clearly haven’t been paying attention.

      • I Just Don’t Get It

        What stupidity. This doesn’t have anything to do with your BS partisan rant. This has to do with, for instance, the AA man who murdered his whole family and killed himself because he lost his job at a hospital and couldn’t find a way out of his mess. What’s wrong with you? That man and his wife had HOSPITAL JOBS and lost them. They paid taxes, bought a home, and supported their family. Now, they are dead. Maybe you freaks could see it in your hearts to stop worrying about hookers getting free condoms, terrorists getting “3 hots and a cot” on the backs of us taxpayers, and start worrying about maybe peeling a few thousand out of the CONDOM BUDGET to help people like that man get out of his rut. To me, that’s the DEMOCRATIC thing to do. And I’m not paying taxes until Congress is flushed of the trash that doesn’t give a damn about the taxpayers. Oh yeah, and it’s really getting old that every conversation liberals have is about abortions and women’s ovaries. YAWN.

        • cynic

          Hookers? You really need to find out a bit more about STD vectors.

          For example, every year in the United States 1 out of every 4 sexually active teenagers becomes infected with a sexually transmitted disease. Any idea what percentage of American teenagers is sexually active?

          One out of every four teenage girls in America is currently infected with a STD.

          It isn’t about the hookers. It’s about American kids.

          • I Just Don’t Get It

            And you need to grow up if you think they have never heard of condoms. For the love of God. Yet again, nothing you talk about in your myopic rants has ANYTHING to do with saving the lives of people who already were born, CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY, and are having a bad time. And, by the way, the stimulus package is getting attacked left and right because it is NOTHING BUT PORK and spending that will NEVER repair our ailing country. So, why don’t you look at the big picture. No one likes VD. But some of us value the lives that are struggling more than these Superman in a cape, pretentious nonsense, worthless wastes of money.

          • lark

            Then American kids should get busy and work diligently to find solutions to their problems. Universities and colleges should charge science departments with space and time to give American kids the help they would need to find such solutions. If American kids have a problem it is up to American kids to find solutions.

      • wodiej

        When are we going to have a discussion about personal responsibility? Why is it up to taxpayers to ensure irresponsible people use sex protection because they don’t give a shit about themselves or the damage they do to unwanted children and the burden placed on society to help them raise them?

        Until we as a society quit giving these people a security blanket, they are going to keep sucking the thumb of the government.

        • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

          just watch an episode of Jerry Springer…

  • obamastolemyboyfriend

    When I heard Nancy Pelosi’s reasoning for the 200 million for condoms, I could not help but be saddened yet again for the state of our country. She said it is a cost saving measure. She thinks, no children, no need to give them health care or education, etc. Well, isn’t that lovely! Maybe we can follow China’s model and limit how many children we are allowed to have. WTF? I just cannot believe this is America. I miss my country and I want it back, but these dumbasses aren’t gonna give it back without a massive battle between the smart and the stupid!

    GEEZUS!

  • Rich

    “Can someone please explain why we are having this discussion?”

    It’s been explained multiple times already. It’s not wrong, your face is.

    This is a good idea for the same reason that universal health care would boost the US auto industry and make them competitive once again.

    • I Just Don’t Get It

      Hey Rich, I wonder how those AA people Obama promised he would pick up the tab would feel if they knew that 200 MILLION AMERICAN TAXPAYER DOLLARS that could help them pay their bills will be spent on condoms for other countries. Uhhhh this shows the lack of IQ of you people. Sending condoms overseas in NO WAY helps this eoonomy. But you’d have to have a brain to know that.

  • DinoSilver

    People are angry because this stimulus package is really a payback package to every special interest group that helped get BO elected. The reason we are having this discussion is that with no checks and balances in the House, Senate, and White House this monster of a package will get approved.

  • FranSC

    Another very disturbing thing about the stimulus package that was pointed out today is that ACORN may STILL be set to receive millions and millions of dollars even though it was cut out in the fall. ACORN could still fall under the category of “Community activities” that is STILL in there.

    That is an outrage! Republicans are not just asleep at the switch if they allow this to pass, they are too incompetent to be in congress if they don’t understand that money defeated republicans.

    • I Just Don’t Get It

      I get it. I finally believe the Republicans are doing what they should do. Watch Obama fall flat on his face, send this country into hell, and take the country back in 2010 and 2012. I think the only thing any REAL American can do is stop paying taxes unless and until the money is spent in AMERICA taking care of our own. Not on CONDOMS (that’s the stupidest brain dead thing I have ever heard) but on getting Americans back on their feet. How any ridiculous “progressive” can say that we should spend all of our money on abortions and birth control for foreigners, on trying/housing terrorists who murdered American citizens, on welfare and benefits for illegals…it’s just the sickest most DERANGED nonsense “agenda” ever. I think the GOP is laughing their butts off at how stupid this is. Let Obama screw up. We knew he would anyway.

  • r2d2

    Condoms are not about being “laid”, but contraception. People will have sex with or without condoms, and the problem of unplanned pregnancies and disease cannot be solved with abstinence. Anyone who has limited budget will not spend the money on condoms and women will bear the burden of economizing on a vital necessity. Pay now or pay later is what this expenditure is all about.

    • lark

      This expenditure is about government, how it fails the people, how its attempt to educate the people fail, and how instead of acknowledging its failure resorts to controlling the people and try to subjugate them by reducing them to their minimum limits.

      This expenditure proves that government education, including government supported higher education is a total failure and not worth much, since the people it tries to conquer and dominate are seen as easily manipulated and ignorant.

      This proves that government without religious principles and morals is a total failure and it will only resort to control of the people, tyranny, domination and subjugation and is very capable of disregarding freedom and liberty in a second for its ability to pay for its preservation with the cheapest thing money can buy.

    • NoBamaNoWay

      you mean “Anyone who is STUPID and has limited budget will not spend the money on condoms,” didn’t you? people used to have some kind of clue what the consequences of sex were; i say we return to those times and let people buy their own damn condoms.

    • andrew191

      Where is condom distribution refered to in the Constitution? While everyone argues back and forth over the merits of condoms for all, nobody seems to be able to provide a valid argument why such an activity is the role of the federal government in the first place! Give a bomb proof explaination why condoms should even be considered at the federal level! We’re screwed, and that’s an unprotected screwed.

  • I Just Don’t Get It

    Oh yeah, is Nancy Pelosi going to go into the bedrooms of all of these people to make sure they USE the condoms? Did any of the morons actually realize the fact that some people just don’t LIKE using condoms because of the reduced pleasure? Unless Pelosi is going to do bedroom raids, this nonsense is pissing in the wind. 200 Million Dollars? LMFAO. We’re broke and we’re buying condoms. How about helping some AMERICANS pay their mortgages? Nah, that would mean you love America and its citizens.

    • lark

      I just don’t get it, this expenditure of 200 million dollars in condoms is how the U.S. government demonstrates it is a failure and its attempt to educate through an educational system has failed. That higher education in the U.S. has failed and it can’t ask from its people nothing, not even to solve the simplest problem. The U.S. government has then to resort of dominating tyrannical ways of control by throwing cheap dollars to buy other peoples’ futures on the cheap.

      Simply put the U.S. Congress is broke, has no idea of what to do with itself, and now wants to dominate the world with cheap little condoms to subjugate poor people with the cheapest way it can, giving out condoms. It is the U.S. government at its lowest point, the point where it looses hope. It is a government with little moral character.

      • I Just Don’t Get It

        Lark…Nancy Pelosi’s BARNUM AND BAILEY charade of a “Congress,” that has never done ANYTHING for this country, is what the brain dead of America are looking to for help navigating the economy. It’s pathetic. Pelosi and her crooks have an 11% approval rating. Gee, it might be all that spending on pork that only sinks us further into debt. And now the Republicans in Senate fighting against this stuff have been issued a “gag order” by the Fraud. He just really doesn’t like people talking about how stupid he is.

        • lark

          That is true. These people are ignorant enough to bite too much and then are unable to chew and swallow what they have ingested, even less, digest it. They live off dependency and want to sell it to everyone else. A ponzi scheme equal to Madoff’s, destined for bankruptcy.

    • Winston

      Your comment makes entirely too much sense and will undoubtedly initiate a lengthy reply with circuitous logic trying to convince us that $200 million for condums is economically viable since is saves lives and medical expenses. But the availability of condums, and the false belief that they are 100% effective would increase risky behavior. So my point is that more people would die as a result.

  • lark

    AG in Italy, all I will be looking for after this condom bill is funded is for the Vatican to take up the issue in their American church and excommunicate any and all Catholic legislators in Congress that vote for this bill. I hope that the soul of these legislators end up in the soil as much as the semen left on all those condoms will.

    These condoms are an attack on hope and change and life. Is an attack by narcissistic people bent on controlling others and dominating the world. This is all about power and moreover the power of government. All it shows is that government education is a failure and government as such is a failure and ultimately all it wants is to thwart life and control people and make people do whatever legislators want them to do. It proposes to buy the happiness and fruitfulness and hope of those that need it to become whole and experience growth and prosperity.

    Funny because the 200 million used to producing those condoms are supposed to be paid by those who never were born because of the condom themselves.

    • cynic

      The continuing spread of HIV infection is an attack on hope and change and life. Not to mention on the cost of public healthcare that every taxpaying American currently shares.

      A condom is one cheap and easy way of reducing the incidence of new infection.

      So what’s your big problem with saving lives and tax dollars? It is a bad idea just because the program was supported by democrats?

      I honestly don’t get it.

      • I Just Don’t Get It

        My big problem is that we don’t have the MONEY in the first place. It’s time for PRIORITIES. This condom thing isn’t going to help anyone. Do you people not get that anyone can go to Planned Parenthood and get free birth control ANYWAY? So exactly what is it you think is going to change? WE ARE BROKE. PEOPLE ARE KILLING THEMSELVES OVER JOB LOSS AND LOSS OF THEIR HOMES, ETC. NOTHING OBAMA HAS SAID OR DONE IS GOING TO FIX THIS. NOTHING.

        • cynic

          My big problem is that we don’t have the MONEY in the first place.

          And for that you can thank George W. Bush, his tax cuts, and his rubber-stamp republican congressional majority. Who else is to be thanked for doubling the national debt in a mere 8 years?

          We can also thank Bush and his appointees for engineering the bail out that was waiting for Obama when he took office a little over a week ago. Just like the invasion of Iraq, it was sold by terrifying Congress and the American public with the financial equivalent of a mushroom cloud hanging over an American city. “We have the all the facts,” the told us. “The consequences of not acting immediately are too terrible to contemplate. Do what we say, or total disaster will ensue in days.”

          This dire message was dumped on America with a presidential election only weeks away. Does anybody know where the money went? Or where it came from?

          The last act of the Bush administration was to try to lock in the course for the next administration. They had calculated who that would likely be, and pointed the ship toward an iceberg. They would trade four years of hardship for the nation for a shot at a return to power in 2012, while bailing out some friends in the financial industry in the process.

          Isn’t it obvious?

          Pardon my off-topic rant. I’ve got some unresolved issues.

      • DinoSilver

        No – it’s a bad idea because this is a fiscal emergency stimulus package.

        • I Just Don’t Get It

          EXACTLY MY POINT. While Rome burns the way left social programs that probably will have zero effect on the economy or our lives are being included in a “package” so full of pork and BS that it will never help us. Funny that the party that claims to be “about the people” hasn’t been about the people for years.

      • lark

        My big problem with saving lives and tax dollars is that people who resort to this brainless method of saving lives are already brain dead. The challenge of saving lives threatened by decease is to find cures for the deceases and not try to make others do what they want them to do. Giving out condoms is a mentally challenged way for society to react to what should be a great cause for study and preparation and effort on the part of an intelligent society. But we in the U.S. have given up on intelligence and brain power. The U.S. simply is giving up on its people. It needs to resort to the lowest and cheapest form of solving a problem. Too bad.

      • wodiej

        hope and change starts with being responsible and accountable for your behavior!

  • I Just Don’t Get It

    AP
    posted: 3 HOURS 48 MINUTES AGO

    LOS ANGELES (Jan. 27) — A man fatally shot his wife, five young children and himself Tuesday after he faxed a note to a TV station claiming the couple had just been fired from their hospital jobs and together planned the killings as an escape for the whole family. “Why leave our children in someone else’s hands,” Ervin Lupoe wrote in a letter posted late Tuesday on the KABC-TV Web site.

    Hmmmm….this is from an AA family. The father killed all five of his kids, his wife and himself because of job loss and the economy. Guess these AAs don’t believe Obama’s nonsense either. But, hey, a really good time to spend 200 Million on CONDOMS.

    • cynic

      Encouraging safe sex is probably bad for the economy. After all, a 25 cent condom might be all that stands between the corporate healthcare industry and an additional $618,900 in public healthcare funds.

      Sorry. I just don’t buy the argument. Although I do respect your right to hold your own opinion.

      • wodiej

        people don’t get AIDS because they can’t afford condoms, they AIDS because they WON’T USE THEM.

        • cynic

          200 million bucks wasn’t really intended just to hand out free condoms. It would have helped to pay for womens’ reproductive services. That would have included money to educate disadvantaged young women about STDs and how safer behavior can keep them and their families safer. Look at it purely in dollars and cents: If you can modify the risky behavior of just a few people through education, in the long run you can save a few billion bucks in public health funds. That’s good for the economy.

          Besides that, the money would have functioned as an economic stimulant. Reproductive health councilors who could soon be out of work might have kept their jobs. Some clinics that could soon be closed for lack of funding might have remained open.

          I suspect the real reasons for the strong objections are other than those being stated. This was just an opening to take a whack at Obama, at publicly funded womens’ health and reproductive services, and at liberal social policy in general.

  • Winston

    Who would have thunk that Obama’s STIMULUS PACKAGE was a sexual stimulus package?

    • lark

      Condoms is the solution for morons. People would use condoms 10, 20, 100 times but when hormones are raging and women are fertile their scent and feelings produce a hormonal reaction in men and the need for a condom is thrown out by the natural need to procreate. Condoms fail not because they break but because psychological barriers break them.

  • Winston

    Personally, and this may not be a popular opinion here, but I hope that Obama does cut the $200M for contraceptives from the stimulus package. (Talk about pork!)

    AG in Italy, I totally missed your pun “Talk about Pork”. Now I get it. LMAO, Very cleaver.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      thanks. i liked my last line, where i paraphrased, but i don’t think anyone got it. :O)

  • pa voter

    I don’t think this belongs in the stimulus package either. In fact, when I first heard about it I thought this was Obama’s payback to Planned Parenthood for endorsing him. I want to see the entire stimulus package go to stimulating the economy. Why not use the money to get universal healthcare started, for example, or work out all the bad debt from the mortgages, for another one.

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    This posted while I was fast asleep, so I wasn’t here to engage anyone. It looks like it was a good debate, though.

    Bottom line – IMHO – you just can’t throw money/condoms at the problem. It IS about responsibility and consequence.

    I think jobs, food, heat and gas are the priority right now, not birth control. Not new cars for government employees, not new sod for the Mall…

    • wodiej

      AGI, I agree. I was also asleep when your thread went up. People don’t get unwanted pregnancies, AIDS and other diseases because they can’t afford condoms, these things happen because they WON’T USE THEM. Free condoms won’t fix irresponsible behavior. We need accountability.

      • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

        I have to agree.

        And if you look at the huge increase in HIV/AIDS of African American women, because of the men living on the downlow, you HAVE to stress responsibility. I would think this is the perfect time for Obama to come out strong and stress these issues. He seems to have mesmerized his *followers*, he should use that *power* and do something more. Speak directly to the youth, to monorities, to his base. Don’t just pass out condoms.

        • wodiej

          good point, from what I read of his speech, that is what he was asking but I guess he meant those of us who are already responsible. I’m sick of it. That is why alot of people have unprotected, random sex because they know the govt. will take care of them aka the taxpayer

  • tango

    I think what people forget is this is a stimus package supposedly for the purpose of creating jobs. All parts of it should be directly related to helping save and make jobs. I can’t see how condom funding is going to create any significant amount of permanent jobs so that’s why it seems silly in this bill.

    If the Democrats want to introduce & pass a spending bill extending Medicaid insurance, daycare funding, remodeling of the treasury building, etc, so be it. That’s what they should do. But piggybacking pork spending on a “supposed” job creation and retention stimulus bill and trying to tell us it will create jobs is just boneheaded. This stimulus should just be about creating jobs (preferably permanent jobs) and conditions that encourage businesses to add to their employee ranks. I think the Democrats figure if they can tack all this pork onto a much needed employment stimulus bill, it will ensure it will get passed whereas a seperate funding bill will not.

    • wodiej

      exactly….

      they’re now taking the DC mall renovations out of the “stimulus” package. I am hearing Republican leaders are telling Repub’s to all vote against it

  • cassie

    It’s more than accepting the framing that it all about abortion, contraception and condoms raining from the sky. It’s about MEIDCAID and women’s reproductive health. About providing services to the “poor” thru an underfunded, understaffed and desperate system that provides services and EDUCATION about FAMILY PLANNING SERVICES as well as other medical services to a growing segment of the population. It could well be your neighbor or you who have lost their job and their health insurance and need health care as more and more of the married middle class with families fall thru the cracks and have to rely on Medicaid – somethng that The One actually promoted! The states are suffering, have no money for additional programs much less for funding that which they already do.

    It’s about diabetes, asthma and many other chronic diseases – it’s about treating children. When will so-called “liberals” STOP accepting the frame that the rethugs put on issues and then run with the “liberal” media mindset. This is NOT just about the “welfare queens” for god’s sake!

    For shame! No wonder he recinded the Gag Rule under the guise of a Friday nite news dump in private – he knew damn well what was coming. A feminist president who hids the fact on his undershirt! LOL He is a joke.

    When did Democrats stop caring about the “poor” and the voiceless as that part of the population grows in leaps and bounds daily with millions losing jobs, health care, homes! Oh! but he’s not a “Democrat” – he is a “bipartisan” – too bad we don’t have a “BIPARTISAN PARTY”

    Maybe you aren’t even aware of how many health care workers could be hired, how many more services could be provided, each time a person seeks medical tx, there is providers and their support staffs. Do you have any idea how long the wait is to get an appt for a MEDICAID patient even if some provider accepts it? That is hiring staff, physicians, nurses, social workers and buying supplies to provide those services! At least it won’t be waiting ten years after years of studies to decide to build a bridge to nowhere by male construction/steel workers! a

    • lark

      You are wrong, liberal cassie. Not that all your concerns are wrong. You are a concerned person, with a very caring heart. I admire that. The republicans, the people you hate, also care as much as you about all those concerns of yours. You err because you think that money, that is hiring people for jobs in all those areas you mention will bring some relief to those problems. You are wrong. Simply hiring people just makes the problem worse. When people are hired all they do is talk about their weekends and hate each other the rest of the week.

      What you have to acknowledge is that government is failing and the public education system is no good. That entertainment and laziness is what school children cherish and entertainment and laziness is what we all as Americans have become used to and habituated. Most people with issues such as you mention are so lazy that all they want is a pill to cover their symptoms and pity. Then once they have that all they want is entertainment and laziness. Most sick or ignorant people have ample time to dedicate to learning about their disease, finding workable natural solutions, preventing them in those they know around them, and being careful not to fall again to lazy habits.

      Your problem liberal cassie is that you do not understand and maybe never will what is the meaning of the word, responsibility. Personal responsibility covers quite a lot of ground with very little stimulus money necessary. Responsibility means caring and caring means suffering the consequences of requiring people to get busy and stop relying on others for their welfare. That means teachers must teach not entertain their students.

  • I’m a Linda too

    “I’m not sure if one of the top priorities facing the country right now is ensuring people can still get laid.”

    Indeed.

    And I keep remembering what Senator Bingaman’s aid said when I called to object to the much pork in this supposed stimulus plan that has nothing to do with stimulating the economy.

    That the economists the Democrats are listening to claim that ANY MONEY SPENT will stimulate the economy. Aren’t we lucky, and the voters put these folks in charge of all branches.

    • I’m a Linda too

      And it really scares me that this leadership is showing up their priorities.

      • I’m a Linda too

        s/b us

  • cassie

    so angry at what I am reading that I hit post too soon.

    Since when did American women become less valuable than the nameless faceless women in some Third World Country.

    Yea! there are millions of women out there running around having random unprotected sex just to put the screws to the American budget!

    Do you think how much each and every dollar invested in family planning prevents spending double, triple, quadruple dollars down the road? Whether it be for STD’s or unwanted pregnancies. Force women into situations so that they seek the “underground abortion railroad” and wind up with incomplete abortions, life-risking health problems or DEATH using off-label meds or other means!

    You sound as simplistic and narrcistic as Nancy Reagan and George Bush – just say “NO!” So now there has to be income thresholds estabished so one can have SEX too?

    Pass another bill? Hell, he can’t even get this one passed … check out the pork that has been handed out over the past few months and the corporate welfare that was redistrubuted to the finanacial industry in bonuses alone. We gave banks money, loans, and if we need a loan – tuff! We can’t even get back the money we loaned ‘em!

    Next goes the help with the mortgages … but take the health care monkey off the backs of the millions who sink a thousand or more a month into health care premiums and that damn well would free up the cash flow! Nooooo, better to continue the 50% credit that the employers have – after all, that really helps those who don’t have a job and can’t even afford COBRA – if it hasn’t run out!

    Yea! Let’s balance the budget, cure the recession, on the backs of the poor, especially women! I can’t wait to see what he does to the elderly with social security and medicare … and who will that impact the most? Poor older women who depend on it for their life!

    You bought him. You own him and his Reagan-lite excesses! Accountability? Something like judging a country by how the most unfortunante are treated?

    It’s not about CONDOMS! It’s not about SEX! It’s about health care and the oppportunity to do something about it is being ignored!

    • lark

      Again I feel for you and I admire you but you are putting your eyes on government. Probably, I don’t know this, you have been educated by government. Maybe you completed a bachelor degree in a government funded college. Problems like you mentioned do not need government money or bailouts. Just say NO means knowing why you abstain from giving mortgages to people that cannot afford to pay them back because their jobs and income were misrepresented. You are forgetting that misrepresentation and lying is standard practice and that it was the way Obama won, by misrepresentation and lying to immature people.

      Women, the source of your concern are better off when they take charge of their lives and learn to teach those around them to work with them in making a better life for themselves. Making women dependent is what flushing the system with money and regulation does. Women are reduced when they are regulated to death. Freedom and responsibility is what makes people grow and prosper, not handouts.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

      the $200M was for contraception, not diabetes. Pelosi’s reasoning was that reducing unwanted pregnancies will save the govt. money in the long term. So, spend $200M, instead of holding people responsible/expecting them to act responsibly?

      HOWEVER, if you read up on the number of people who do NOT use contraceptives, your arguments are futile. Condoms are available, but that does not mean people are using them. Birth control is available, but that doesn’t mean people take it. STDs are transmitted, and it is because people, with access, choose not to use condoms. Also, because some people are liars and cheaters, and sleep around on their partners, and bring their STDs home.

      There is a big difference between accessibility in US, and third world countries.

      If the big concern is caring for those who have lost their jobs, and no longer have access to medical care, the focus should be on getting them JOBS, not birth control. People can survive a few months without access to the pill. The money was for contraception.

      “You sound as simplistic and narrcistic as Nancy Reagan and George Bush – just say “NO!” So now there has to be income thresholds estabished so one can have SEX too?”

      As someone pointed out above, if you can’t afford a condom, you shouldn’t be having sex. NO birth control is 100% effective. There is ALWAYS the possibility that you can become pregnant, which will cost you a hell of a lot more than a condom, whatever you decide to do. Married people who can’t afford birth control, but don’t want kids, I think, can make due for a month or two. there are other things couples can do….

      And as far as STD’s are concerned, if you can’t afford a condom, and are not with a partner you are 100% sure is *clean* you should not be irresponsible and engage in unsafe sex. You SHOULD just say NO!

      I really do not think the issue is that people can not afford condoms. As I said, they are readily available, for free. People don’t use them. You can get 100 condoms online for $20. You can buy them in vending machines for $1.

      I think we are better served using that $200M to help create jobs, to get people back to work, so they can regain access to their birth control, and then hump like bunnies. But, I think we also need to look at teaching kids consequence.

      Read these:

      http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2008/11/12/most-single-adults-not-using-condoms.html

      http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479994,00.html

      http://voices.washingtonpost.com/checkup/2008/09/why_teens_dont_use_condoms.html

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-503141/Doctors-blame-unwanted-pregnancies-STDs-booze.html

      It is about responsibility, and accountability. And saying NO is part of it.

      • lark

        I think that if we can’t pay for the 200 M now with taxes then we should not spend 200 M for anything. To saddle future generations with paying interest on our day of good will is immoral. We should be happy to give a better country to our descendants but not through charging them in advance. We have lost any sense of accomplishment.

  • native1

    I want to ask you all who are against this and for “personal responsibility” a question. When you compare “abstinence only” sex education, with Teaching real sex education and providing contraceptives, which works the best? No question which wins out.

    Also please show me a program that was cut from the bill that actually helps starving people that was cut as a result of the $200,000,000. Talk about false arguments. I tend to believe that you are actually the morons here. Show me what replaced the expenditure that actually helps a poor or even middle class person…I”ll wait but won’t be holding my breath.

    • wodiej

      You don’t get it but I’ll try to explain again. It isn’t the lack of contraceptives that is the problem, it’s that people WON’T USE THEM. Why? Because they are irresponsible and unaccountable for themselves. Do you really think most people do not already know what causes pregnancy and STD’s??

      Want to help the poor? Teach them to be responsible for themselves. Welfare is not working out too well for them.

      • lark

        He doesn’t get it. People need to work on their problems to arrive at their own solutions. Teaching real sex education is good, but giving out the condoms in the process does not advance the ‘real sex educstion’ issue. One needs to acknowledge a need and develop a desire to solve it. That’s what education is all about. Not gifts.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

      “the U.S. still has the highest rates of STIs and teen pregnancy of any industrialized country in the world.”

      I don’t agree with teaching *abstinence only*. that is like sticking your head in the sand. But it should be part of the process. As well as more involvement from parents. You can’t just tell kids, “hey, look, you can have sex, just slip on a condom, and if that fails, don’t worry, you can have an abortion. And if you don’t want one, it’s cool, teenage mothers are hip.”

      Why does the US have the highest rate of STDs and teenage pregnancies in the world? It isn’t because they don’t have access to birth control.

      WRT the bill, my point is that they need to quit stuffing pork, like the contraception, new cars for govt. employees, new sod, etc. and focus on HELPING people. Creating jobs, and tax breaks.

      They just cut $400M from the bill, for the Mall, and the condoms, so they should come up with a better use for that money.

      • native1

        “They just cut $400M from the bill, for the Mall, and the condoms, so they should come up with a better use for that money.”

        They are voting on what IS not on what SHOULD be, thats my point. Teaching real sex education and providing contraceptives is teaching and enabling responsibility. Not all this money is going to buying condoms.

        Invest in the FUTURE of America and teach sex education and provide contraceptives. Promote responsibility buy educating about the consequences of irresponsibility and providing a means to be responsible.

        • lark

          Right. Stop giving and start asking.

  • tarma

    IMHO,reproductive freedom has been unfortunately and inextricably linked with abortion rights. The missing link is the issue of reponsibility that goes hand-in-hand with the concept of personal freedom, which includes utilizing available resources and information.

    Strengthening programs that provide education and information about STD’s and pregnancy prevention is a great idea. So is the support of accessible and affordable means of preventing pregnancy and STD’s.

    Having said that, I remain unconvinced that spending large amounts of money on condoms is a particularly effective means of teaching sexual and reproductive responsibility, or of enhancing reproductive freedom.

    An effective strategy would need to be linked with a solid and reliable network of systems that provide comprehensive information on pregnancy prevention and STD’s, the correct use of condoms, and the personal social-emotional implications of engaging in sexual activity.

    Finally, as an individual who has spent many years working with marginalized and indigent populations, I am also not convinced that an inability to afford condoms is a meaningful consideration for many who engage in unprotected sex.

  • cassie

    you say so much and I don’t know where to start … but I did too … furious is a good word when I see crap like some of what was posted by people who are sitting on their fat backsides and cannot even concieve what it is like to work with those stuck in the rut of poverty and neglect and there is absolutely no way out. OR even BE ONE OF THEM. It seldom has to do with “lazy.” I have never hated republicans, or conservatives nor will I ever … but what I hate is denial and ignorance …

    of course women and men both are better off when they take charge of their lives but as you said they need to LEARN how to do that … teaching them, providing RESOURCES is not making them more dependant but it is not only showing them the door but how to open it …. Health care is a human right and you may consider Medicaid a “handout” (or a “bailout” such as the millions, no trillions, dumped into corporate welfare) but it is A RIGHT … as health care of one, whether it be individual health care or public health as in communicable diseases affects all of us … Don’t provide means for preventive care, then we’ll pay for the care in the ER at quadruple the cost or more of preventive care! Reproductive/women’s health care is just one part of the big picture … whether it be screening for diseases such as CA of the breast or other acute and chronic disease such as cervical cancer, or herpes and STD’s, educating about birth control, treatment of rape victims, care during pregnancy, reproductive choice. It isn’t just about sex and contraception! It is criminal that basic needs are limited to only those who can afford them – whether it be shelter, food, clothing, OR health care.

    Of course with that right of course comes responsibility … no one is saying that it doesn’t. However, women and men make poor choices – always have and always will. As our audacious President said, he wouldn’t want his daughters “punished” by an unwanted pregnancy/child – why “punish” so many others then? And that avoids the whole discussion how utterly offensive that statement was – and he is so eloquent and loquacious! harrrrumph!

    The very least we can do is EDUCATE about choices and increase the odds of someone making a better one … maybe you’d rather pay for the long term lifetime treatment of an HIV-AIDS patient than a condom – I’d rather not and not just because of the $$$ but because of the human suffering. I suppose that HIV patient would need more caregivers and employ more if that’s what it is about! That’s why we need people working in Women’s centers, in women’s health care, in EDUCATION and modeling behaviors and providing direct services – not cutting jobs and services because the states are running out or have run out of money! Do you know that most of those who care for the most vunerable, the frail elderly aren’t even afforded the simple basics of health care? When you are talking about Medicaid, you are not talking about just the poor who for some reason you think are lazy (wouldn’t happen to be a rethug opposed to a republican, would you?) but the working poor who are holding two or even three jobs just to put food on the table those who are above the threshold – x3 poverty level. Or a African Americans on the downlow or Reagan’s “welfare queen.” Health care? ha! They should be too tired to have sex, I guess, by your standards!

    AH! yes! don’t give loans to those who can’t afford it … of course, not … but the problem did not lie with just those who could not see or understand that they couldn’t afford it or those that got rich off the same schemes … there were title companies, real estate agents, appraisers, banks and attorneys all in on it … becomiong rich on it and have they been penalized one bit?

    Do I like it that people’s “loans” will be forgiven or at least restructed? Absolutely not … but what’s the alternative? Put them out on the street? The bank takes the house back? Okay – let them rent it! Lower the value of the neighboring houses because of all the surrounding empty houses failling down? They sold houses by advertising the monthly payment … not how much it would cost with interest … the same way they sold and STILL sell cars people can’t afford (so lease one! and have payments forever) and credit cards people can’t pay … I can’t tell you how many applications I got for months and still get for pre-approved credit cards and Biden little hand in that mix didn’t help anyone either – but then BO couldn’t even vote for keeping the interest rate at 30%.

    Please do come and sit with me a day and talk to my clients and see and hear what reality is. Of course there are a few who abuse “the system” and try to get over but there is a whole hell of a lot more who don’t want to be where they are and don’t have a clue how to get out! The “lightbringer” is so busy kissing the right’s butts that he has no time for that or to think of them! That’s exactly why that 92 year old man froze to death in MI and why PO’s constituants froze to death in Chicago, or died from the heat in the summer, when he was State Senator and he was clueless about their plight!

    Anyone can certainly comment on what any degree is in and where they came from – have at it! Bring it on! You can also comment on political leanings – or even the need to steal, cheat and lie … all in the name of money, greed, powers and control. Better tp attack the messenger rather than the message. But how does that get a child health care, how does it get a woman who finds herself pregnant by accident
    - yes, it does happen – even if she is white, married and done all the “right” things if she or her husband just lost the job and have no health care or is pregnant thru violence such as rape either from a stranger or a family member get treatment if she and/or her hubby makes one dollar too much money for any assistance and not enough to pay for insurance and care? Then there are those single mothers who probably could go out and get a low skilled job at a minimum salary without benefits but lose Medicaid and health care for her children. Now! that is a duh – plus pay for child care per hour that costs more than she makes.

    BO brags about his mother on food stamps – how rough it was … that whole year when he was an infant before she married and moved to Indonesia … while she was in college working for her degree! Not many can afford that nowadays or even then … I guess his mom shoulda just said “NO!” since daddy was already married with two children already!

    Responsiblity doesn’t begin and end with the individual. Never did. Never will.

    Sure Nancy said just say “no” to drugs … Dubya said “no” to sex. How’d that work out?

    • lark

      Well I have to say I admire you and feel you are a real good person. You should not think that I am much different than you in the sense that I too am embedded in our culture and know about those things you speak about. Don’t dismiss me. I don’t dismiss you.

      women and men make poor choices – always have and always will

      I don’t blame you for thinking that needs need to be addressed. I blame you for thinking that the only way to address needs is to push forward with what seems the next logical choice.

      but what’s the alternative

      There you go. The way we do things are not necessarily the best way, and adding to inappropriateness just makes our society worse off. In fact, most problems today seem they are mushrooming, no? Bigger and bigger. Life seems geared towards entertainment and less fulfilling. That’s because government fosters submission. I am a Republican but only voted Republican this last election and yes, I threw my vote by voting for McCain. Yuk. I feel sorry for myself now. I voted for him because of Palin and now I am just waiting for her to surface again. She is my hero.

      I read every word you wrote and I commend you. I would just advice you to rid yourself of the myopic view that more is better. I believe in death and at the proper time death is natural. I give but I don’t believe in giving. I believe in remunerating, in gratitude and rewarding. All problems are easily solvable as long as government can remain marginalized as an observer. But no, today government is our savior and the only actor that counts. Bad.

      I too hope the future is better than today. But today people think that happiness is welfare and entertainment. I think walking is better than running and better than skating.

    • wodiej

      What it all comes down to is living our lives with integrity, values, character, compassion-having a relationship with God. We all have made poor choices. But if people would change their behavior and do just a few simple things that don’t cost a thing, they would see their lives turned around in a positive way. It’s a choice.

      • lark

        Exactly. And pastors and preachers that would walk the neighborhood instead of being buried in stupid little chores, preparing stupid sermons that more often than not they preach to themselves.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      I’m not really sure what point you were trying to make, but have no fear. There is still a $335 Million provision in the stimulus package for STD education.
      http://www.drudgereport.com/flashsb.htm

  • Ceit

    Did you even bother to read what was in the section — It was a provision that would create stimulus – It wasn’t about simply giving out condoms. It was to help states create family planing programs that would help low income woman to plan their family instead of having an unwanted pregnancy — How much will an unwanted pregnancy cost the state in the long run, a hell of lot more than giving the same woman options that will allow her to decide what is best for her body and her family.

    Blaming a woman, saying she should just cross her legs and not have sex anymore is a blind excuse at not looking a major problem we have in the United States.

    The reason why this program is important, not only will it create more jobs in the medical field, but it will encourage woman to get the health care that they need. This is improtant to the life and health of American workers.

    The original statement is apparently written by a man who never had to face issues like what is going to happen to me if I am pregnant? And yes, this happens to woman from all walks of life every day. They worry about the sex they were presured to have, or feel that they need comfort and look to the man they are in a relationship with.

    Two to one the man that helped with the pregnancy, didn’t want to use a condom — awe come on baby I will pull out.. If you love me then you have to trust me. The pull out method is the worst method period.

    Men– IN general don’t take responsibility, In general the man is at the same economic level as the woman and that means that he don’t have the money either.

    It’s not just the woman and mans problem it’s the community problem, without family planning then there are going to be more unwanted children — Abstinence only don’t work in schools and work less with adults.

    I really hate that Obama caved on this — because a few squeamish old white entitled men have their panties in an uproar… For once I would like to see these men live as a woman being afraid of pregnancy every day of their life because in the real world with rape up, sexual asualt which happens every day, sexual harassment in the work place (woman having sex with their bosses or other to keep their jobs) –

    So take your *Close your legs comment and put it where it makes sense.*

    • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

      Oh for pete’s sake.

      I am a woman and I do not fear pregnancy “every day of my life.” Talk about victimization!!!

      I live in a city where you can walk into local thrift shops and get free condoms that are available at the counter. Condoms aren’t that expensive. If you don’t think you can afford a baby or an abortion, suck up the $10 for a pack of Trojans. These poor people spend more on that on a night at the movies.

      Oh, and BTW, condoms won’t protect a woman from rape. So the rape issue is not pertinent to this condom issue.

      • wodiej

        no kidding, well said and it didn’t take 4 paragraphs to say it.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      “It was to help states create family planing programs that would help low income woman to plan their family instead of having an unwanted pregnancy — How much will an unwanted pregnancy cost the state in the long run, a hell of lot more than giving the same woman options that will allow her to decide what is best for her body and her family.”

      So, it was for funding abortions, and birth control.

      How is this job creation and stimulus?

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      “Two to one the man that helped with the pregnancy, didn’t want to use a condom — awe come on baby I will pull out.. If you love me then you have to trust me. The pull out method is the worst method period.”

      Women need to take responsibility for their bodies, and wise up to that kind of crap.

      • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

        Handing out condoms doesn’t solve this problem. Kicking the guy to the curb does, however.

        • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

          hahaha yes!

        • wodiej

          LMAO….

      • prieur

        as I do refer for abortion clinics I always give this piece of advice to my unlucky patient,.

        “next time know that a boy who does not have condoms and does not use them and does not give you the time to buy them/get them on is CRAP. He is a very silly chap unworth of you and you deserve better.”

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      So take your *Close your legs comment and put it where it makes sense.*

      Try getting pregnant or catching an STD with your legs closed, and your clothes on.

      • wodiej

        LMAO….omg…you all are killin’ me…

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    This reminds me of the *give a man a fish, he eats for the day, teach him to fish, and he eats forever* or however that goes.

    Give a woman federally funded birth control, she has sex for a day. Give her a job, and she takes control of her life.

  • cassie

    Who gets to define integrity, values, character, compassion? Having a relationship with God? Now which God is that?

    But today people think that happiness is welfare and entertainment.

    Lucky for me, I’ve not met any of them … and can count not one among those of my closest circle!

    Might want to check out how Health Care Spending IS Stimulus …http://healthcare.newsladder.net/

    The idea that birth control coverage is less important than any other kind of healthcare spending is beyond absurd. It is no different than any other spending on any other disease – whether it be diabetes, obesity, asthma or whatever and the prevention … it’s just because reproductive health issues might involve icky sex and women’s parts!

    The birth control expansion would have made it easier for States to relax the eligibility criteria to cover more women. Providing more services, to more people, with more money supplied by the federal government is economic stimulus right out of the textbook.

    More is not better … but in this case, to get the biggest “bang for the buck,” why not stimulate all health care spending – why eliminate just women – poor women, at that, from the picture? Besides, it would be up to each state to decide how to dedicate the monies … of course throwing more money after bad, as in NCLB or even the faith-based initiatives is never a good thing … but providing appropriate health care, especially preventive care, is a good thing!

    Want pay for play? Then tax the botox, boob jobs, fanny lifts, hair plugs … to pay for the millions who cannot even get basic care! There’s all sorts of luxury taxes including for autos … so why not?

    I guess there should be no stimulus bill whatsoever according to you … and I am inclined to believe that because when will the next one come? Is it that 3 trillion that Schumer hinted at as an encore for the banks down the road?

    It is easy to critize but hard to find alternatives? What’s your alternative? is a valid question … how ’bout doing away with those billions to “stabalize community organizations/activities?” directed at non-profits? Would that be as Boehner suggests, a gift to ACORN – that has become an arm of the “new” Obama party? That’s a nice “thank you” if so …

    I haven’t checked lately but after the first round of voting the republicans still voted ZERO – not one voting for it … so I guess that means PO will be “compromising” some more? Who else will get tossed under the bus? I guess triangulation is not triangulation when PO does it! Guess the republicans learned a lesson. Obstruct some more and they’ll get what they want … sorta like the 2 year old and the mommy who is just afraid to draw a line in the sand because she wants everyone to “like” her, PO will grovel for some more changes … It is time that the so-called Democrats grew a set and demonstrated that they do have principles and values and go to the mat for them. Oh! wait! They have a majority in both houses and hold the WH! They don’t even have to.

    Thus the first real test, putting the rubber to the road, is upon us. Will we find out if the unity schtick works … or is PO posturing? And we’ll also find out where his committments really lay. Will the “celestial choirs” rejoyce? Or will he be the same vague, whichever way the wind blows, candidate?

    • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

      I think the stimulus package is way overblown and should be cut to the bare essentials to help get the economy back on track. And no, sorry, birth control and family planning aren’t going to keep us out of a depression.

      Those women irresponsible enough to sleep around without birth control and get pregnant when they can’t afford a kid will do that REGARDLESS as to how many family planning clinics are nearby. I know, we have a ton of free and low-cost clinics in LA and still these women manage to act stupid. You can’t force them to go to the clinic, even if it is in their own neighborhood. They only go AFTER THE FACT.

    • wodiej

      Comment by cassie | 2009-01-28 13:37:20

      Who gets to define integrity, values, character, compassion? Having a relationship with God? Now which God is that?

      There is the problem right there. People don’t want to do anything to make their lives better but blame everyone but themselves when they screw up and expect us to fix it for them. Well WE’RE TIRED OF IT.

      • lark

        Perfect.

        • lark

          It is perfectly obvious to me cassie from what wodiej highlighted and from his answer that you act as a dependent or co-dependent person. Please forgive me for meddling that way but you need to ponder what wodiej just said to you and try to understand the deep meaning it has and how it leads to solutions that have not been discovered yet.

      • native1

        “Well WE’RE TIRED OF IT.”

        I guess you have been living in Utopia the last eight years wodiej. Your credo of everyone doing for themselves has been status quo for the republicans. Can you tell me any program that actually helps anyone that was enacted in the last eight years? I’ll wait…

        • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

          Yeah, actually, Bush did more for Africa than any other US president in history. They actually like him there because of it.

          http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/popular-in-africa-bush-has-given-more-aid-than-any-other-us-president-783387.html

          • native1

            As much as I dislike Bush you are correct about this. Maybe I should have said what have the Rs done here in the US. Name one program that benefits the poor here, or the working class.

            Thank you for pointing this out by the way. I am not interested in arguing for arguings sake. Credit where it is due is a requirement of an open mind.

            • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

              I believe Bush also increased spending on education (in America), by as much as three times.

              • native1

                He instituted NCLB with his funding. I don’t believe very many credible persons believe that actually helped.

            • lark

              Take a look at Sarah Palin. Her time out of City Major has been less than 8 years. Her threat to resign because of unethical practices of firms and state employees cause many to be beneficiaries of ethical improvements and lower energy cost for millions.

        • lark

          Good point. One program. Lets see. How about Mark Levin the radio talk show host. He started his radio show in 2002, that’s less than 8 years. He ranks fifth nationwide. Daily he defines integrity, values, character, compassion and relationship with God. Daily.

          • native1

            Lark, I’m confused. You have to have your integrity, values, character, compassion, and your relationship with God defined by someone named Mark Levin. Suck it up and take responsibility for yourself. Or is it only those that you don’t like that have to be responsible?

            Right-wing opinionators don’t count as republican programs just as I don’t count Air America as a left-wing Dem program.

            • I Just Don’t Get It

              We filthy dirty Republicans are not the evil people you claim. We are of course happy to have welfare programs to help THOSE WHO NEED IT. That’s what welfare was intended for. Not the long term situation it has become for people to go on the dole for life. Also, we certainly don’t see the point of welfare and handouts for illegal aliens who don’t work and don’t pay taxes. Defending that is just plain silly. I can’t even believe there is a discussion going on about 200 Million Dollars in pork when we are in desperate times. And, as a taxpayer, I have the right to know where my money is going and to see that it gets to the right place.

              The liberal idiots just want to spend spend spend with no help for the economy or the people. Might I say FREDDIE AND FANNIE? Those harmful, destructive welfare handouts are destroying this country. What a laughing stock country we are. Forcing banks to give houses away for free to people who can’t or won’t pay their mortgages and then wondering why our economy crashed. Keep being a victim of the dirty GOP. We are fiscally responsible and believe that the “people” should also take some responsibility, instead of continually whining for a free ride.

            • lark

              Don’t be confused. He does not define those things for me. He defines them in his generic way as he proposes people to behave differently. My values are not the same as his.

            • lark

              The 2008 1040 tax return forms contain many programs enacted by the Republican legislators, even as far back as 1995. You need to be grateful to Republicans for the way the tax return forms are designed and how easy they are to follow and the many tax credits it provides. The forms got more complicated under President Clinton. I suppose they will end up impossible to fill out with Obama.

    • lark

      Lucky for me, I’ve not met any of them

      Oh well okay. Stay put and don’t change one bit.

      I guess there should be no stimulus bill whatsoever according to you

      That’s right. The stimulus bill if any should be only if we pay for it ourselves, not to pass it on to others to pay.

      It is easy to critize but hard to find alternatives?

      Not it isn’t easy to criticize, it takes its toll, but is not that difficult to find alternatives. I usually can find one quite readily.

      What’s your alternative?

      In the past I have proposed some. To condoms I propose challenging the youth with finding their own solutions. I proposed that universities and colleges charge science departments with time and resources that would allow students to discover new ways of avoiding both unwanted pregnancies, contamination with stds and helping others find local solutions to those problems. I believe the problem with intercourse are quite simple but the nation’s university students are incapable of dealing with simple problems. All they want is to get the institution to give them a degree.

      Colleges and universities are simply a big failure. They operate a failing system.

  • prieur

    If young women (the target group Pelosi said this birth control was for) can not afford birth control during this economic downturn, they do have some options available to them.

    As a dr who is still practising gynae issues since 1976- omg- things are not as easy as described below
    what we forget is this very un-pc thing known as …intelligence/awareness/common sense and that is not shared
    ~ Tell their partner that they need them to pay for their birth control.
    well here we have 2 people who alas are not endowed in the neurons department or are under the influence of booze/drugs or possibly plain stupid

    ~ If they do not have a husband/boyfriend/steady partner, and they can not afford birth control, they can give it a rest, and take a hiatus from sex.
    alas gain, less brain means more animal reactions -yup sad, but that the way it is less we use those human traits more we have lower species sex-jerk reflexs
    Give it up for lent. (er, give up giving it up)

    ~ If they are too young, and can’t afford birth control, then they are in the same position than before, and this has nothing to do with the economic downturn. try tell that to a teenager- the best way to manage their very physical urges is to use contraception and advise for LARC – coils/depo injection/implants – at leats the girl will not get pregnant but she will get probably aids or std- once again it is not funny but that is my professionnal experience since 30ys3 boys are selfish and stupid, girls are stupid and sone one must be an adult for them
    and dont mention sexual abstinenece, that they dont do

    ~ Google *free condoms* and you will find an unending supply, readily available.
    if they know how to google they have brains and they do condoms

    I apologize if I have inadvertently offend anyone, but I am practising family planning for 3 decades and yes I have seen it all down to the worst- teenage incest related pregnancy so for anyone who feels ready to preach I say come and visit our planning clinic and enjoy the fun because either you get along or you are in for a long cry…

    but should it cost that much I really dont know
    what I do support is safe sex teachings in biology classes at school
    I have taught my own kids to practise mature sexuality if you dont want kids you act sensibly
    so far the youngest is 22 amnd I am not yet a grandmother which is nowdays a blessing

    • wodiej

      well said..

  • cassie

    I guess you’ll all be glad that the Stop Smoking earmark remains in the bill – guess they have a bigger lobby than the condom manufacturers! Or the grey-haired men of Congress don’t need the comdoms! Just viagra!

    LOL

    Pondesta was head of PO “transition” team because he is not the manager of Pondesta Group, the only lobbying firm in DC that managed to show a 40% increase in revenue last year, right?

    Well, we’ll see how committed PO is to women’s reproductive health issues down the road … despite his playing the “Roe card” throughout the campaign. At least the poor women of the rest of the world got relief!

    but again it’s all in the framing … stimulate the economy by increasing health care and creating jobs for health care workers and support staff or make it about the impulsive teens and the culture which will take much longer, if ever to fix. Nothing they are doing today is different than the previous generation, nor are they doing it differently than it was done in the back of a VW bus! Except tjere are some deadlier STD’s and teens still think that oral sex is “safe sex.”

    Guess the md might not have met the teen who thought “bag it” meant that baggies or saran wrap were the same as condoms or as in FL, the word is that one of the soft drinks (don’t recall which one) is contraception at its best. One of my patients told me about it but she wasn’t sure if you had to drink it or use it otherwise … I sure didn’t know nor do I yet! Or maybe we can have Purity Balls instead of proms! That helps! Right?

    How ’bout using off-label meds – misoprostol – that induces abortion. Another great alternative especially if you’ve ever treated a patient with a incomplete abortion.

    but then, I’m sure the school lets kids google “free condoms” and they would really have them delivered to their homes!! And they’ll send ‘em out but sign up for their other offers first!

    Of course, it’s always the girl’s fault … she should close her legs … how ’bout the guy keeping it in his pants??? It takes TWO, you know!

    • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

      “Of course, it’s always the girl’s fault … she should close her legs … how ’bout the guy keeping it in his pants??? It takes TWO, you know!”

      Whatever issues you have with men – whatever you think some man did to you in the past – you need to get over it.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      without the $200M in the stimulus package, these things are still all available.

      Is viagra in the bill?

      Smoking programs to end smoking should not be in here either, however, smoking illnesses are a HUGE burden.

      yes it takes two. but, who carries the baby? who gets the abortion? who raises the kid? If women don’t want those results, they need to protect their bodies.

      And yes, as native says below, if men were actually held responsible, there would be a drop in *come on baby, i’ll pull out* kind of crap. but until then, the best protection a female has is to just say no. And as long as men control the power in politics, I doubt it will change.

  • native1

    If it was required by law that the father of every child was identified and was required to be equally responsible for the financial well being of said child I do believe the number of unwanted pregnancies would plummet. I believe that even Lark and wodiej can agree that the man should be just as responsible as the women.

    • lark

      Absolutely. I support that kind of effort although not so much by law but by norm. So yes, a 20 year law that would end in 2029.

      • native1

        Thank you I agree with you also. Only make it a law until it does become a norm. I am not for legislating everything. But you also can’t legislate nothing.

    • ChooChooMagoo

      Here here! Well Said native1!! It is amazing to me that there still isn’t true birth control for men.

      • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

        no, but they have 20 different ways to make penises bigger and stay harder longer.

        but, seriously, do women want to *rely* on men to remember to take their birth control? they can’t find their own socks…

  • native1

    I would like to thank ALL of you for your input to my posts, both pro and con. I very rarely get to engage in the give and take. Big ice storm kept me home.

    If I offended anyone I am sorry, it was not my intention.
    Thanks to the NQ crew that allows this forum.

    AL

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

      debate is good. personally, i LOVE hearing opposing views. it is how i learn, grow, and hear the other sides of issues. all i ask is that we be respectful.

      i’m glad that you were snowed in, and shared in the debate! :O)

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  • Mbtsales

    I work for a premium condom manufacturer and sell condoms wholesale….wich I could get a contact to quote our condoms.
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