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Open Thread * Breaking: Judge Nixes Obama Request re Guantanamo

Was273714Beyond this report,Torture Lover John Yoo Excoriates Obama For Banning Torture(this excellent article about the vile, truly evil Yoo (that’s his photo, right) rebuts most of the arguments that Yoo and his ilk have against ending torture) — we have this complication: Military Judge Denies Obama Request to Suspend Guantanamo Hearings, Washington Post, January 29, 2009, 11:30 a.m. ET:

A military judge has refused the Obama administration’s request to delay proceeding for 120 days in the case of a detainee held at the U.S. naval prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, who is accused of planning the October 2000 attack on the USS Cole warship, an al-Qaeda strike that killed 17 service members and injured 50 others.

The decision throws into some disarray the administration’s plan to buy some time as it reviews individual detainee cases as part of its plan to close the prison. The Pentagon may now be forced to withdraw the charges against Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, a Saudi citizen of Yemeni descent. In one of its first actions, the Obama administration instructed military prosecutors to seek 120-day suspensions of legal proceedings in the cases of 21 detainees who have been charged.

The request was quickly granted in other cases when prosecutors told military judges that “the newly inaugurated president and his administration [can] review the military commissions process, generally, and the cases currently pending before military commissions, specifically.”

But Judge James Pohl, an Army colonel, said he found the government’s reasoning “unpersuasive.” … Read all.

BELOW, “Top Myths About Closing Guantanamo — which I shared with Larry Johnson who agreed that we need to get this up in a post here at NoQuarter:

Top Myths About Closing Guantanamo

On his second day in office, President Obama took a bold step away from the Bush administration and signed an executive order to close the Guantanamo Bay detention camp within one year while suspending all military tribunals for six months. Obama said that the United States was sending the world a message that the “struggle against violence and terrorism” would be fought “in a manner that is consistent with our values and our ideals.” Each day that Guantanamo remains open is another day that U.S. troops are put in further unnecessary danger. One U.S. military officer wrote in the Washington Post that he “learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.” Obama has taken the first crucial step in shutting down this stain on America’s reputation. As the Center for American Progress has outlined, the next steps — including arranging for trials in federal or military courts, finding homes for detainees who can’t return to their native countries, transferring detainees who will stand trial into the United States, and establishing a lawful military detention regime for the small number of remaining detainees — won’t be easy, but they’re not impossible. Nevertheless, conservatives are coming up with a number of inaccurate — and often outright ludicrous — excuses for why Guantanamo needs to remain open. The Progress Report debunks some of the most ill-informed myths.

MYTH #1 — GUANTANAMO IS A GREAT PLACE TO BE: Conservatives often try to argue that life at Guantanamo is just fine. Reacting to Obama’s executive order, House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) said that detainees there receive “more comforts than a lot of Americans get.” In December, Vice President Cheney argued that Guantanamo “has been very well run.” Neither of these claims are true. The Washington Post recently revealed that the top Bush administration official in charge of deciding whether to prosecute detainees concluded that Mohammed al-Qahtani was tortured by the U.S. military at Guantanamo. The detention center was so poorly run that Obama administration officials are now finding out that Bush officials never kept comprehensive case files on many detainees.

MYTH #2 — DETAINEES ARE TOO DANGEROUS TO BRING INTO THE UNITED STATES: This myth is the one that conservatives cite most often. Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) has said that transferring Guantanamo detainees to U.S. soil “will endanger American lives.” Yesterday on NBC’s Meet the Press, Boehner said that it would be “irresponsible” to transfer these “terrorists who have attempted to kill Americans.” This morning, Fox and Friends took pictures of various terrorists and went around to Pennsylvania residents and asked them if they wanted these people living in their “backyards.” However, U.S. federal prisons are already home to dozens of the most dangerous terrorists the world has ever known. As Salon’s Glenn Greenwald has written, “Both before and after 9/11, the U.S. has repeatedly and successfully tried alleged high-level Al Qaeda operatives and other accused Islamic Terrorists in our normal federal courts — in fact, the record is far more successful than the series of debacles that has taken place in the military commissions system at Guantanamo.” In fact, there have been 145 terrorist convictions in federal courts since 9/11. Colorado Gov. Bill Ritter (D) has said that he wouldn’t necessarily oppose transferring detainees who are convicted terrorists headed to trial to the state’s “Supermax”, a role that the prison is already playing and that CAP recommended in its report. Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) has also expressed a willingness to bring some detainees into his district, stating, “I mean, they’re no more dangerous in a prison in my district than they are in Guantanamo.”

MYTH #3 — DETAINEES WILL RECEIVE ALL THE BENEFITS OF U.S. CITIZENS: One of the most absurd myths has come from Rep. Steve King (R-IA), who asked last week, “What happens then if another judge grants him asylum in the United States and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is on a path to citizenship?” King added that they could then “tap into welfare.” Yesterday on CBS’s Face the Nation, Vice President Biden addressed these ridiculous claims. “If they are not a U.S. citizen or if they are not here legally, then, even if they were released by a federal judge, they would not be able to stay here in the United States,” said Biden. “They would be sent back to their country of origin. They would not stay here.” CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen has also noted, “When terrorists have been tried in the United States, they go away forever. The embassy attackers in ’98 who blew up two American embassies, they are in prison for life without parole.”

MYTH #4 — 61 RELEASED DETAINEES HAVE RETURNED TO THE BATTLEFIELD: One conservative talking point that has been especially effective at making its way into traditional media reporting is that 61 “of the people that were incarcerated at Guantanamo and then released have returned to the battlefield, have engaged in further terrorist activities,” as CNN’s Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr said yesterday. The Associated Press has made a similar claim. But in fact, as Media Matters has reported, “according to the Pentagon, the 61-detainee figure includes 43 former prisoners who are suspected of, but have not been confirmed as, having ‘return[ed] to the fight.’” Bergen has also noted that “returning to the fight” could simply mean writing a negative op-ed. Mark Denbeaux, Director of the Seton Hall Law School Center for Policy and Research, has been tracking the Bush administration’s claims. He told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow, “Their numbers have changed from 20 to 12 to seven to more than five to two to a couple to a few — 25, 29, 12 to 24. Every time, the number has been different. In fact, every time they give a number, they don’t identify a date, a place, a time, a name or an incident to support their claim.”

MYTH #5 — WE SHOULD JUST HOUSE THE DETAINEES AT ALCATRAZ: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) has been a vocal supporter of closing down Guantanamo. Therefore, conservatives have retaliated by proposing that she take the detainees. “Let our good friends in San Francisco deal with these deadly combatants,” said Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO). Boehner and Rep. Bill Young (R-FL) have suggested Alcatraz prison, which sits in the middle of the San Francisco Bay. This proposal is a joke. Alcatraz shut down as a federal prison in 1963. It became a national historic landmark in 1986. Apparentlty, conservatives are unwilling to house detainees in maximum security federal prisons but are happy to put them up in a tourist attraction. As Pelosi said yesterday on ABC’s This Week, “Alcatraz is a tourist attraction. It’s a prison that is now sort of like a — it’s a national park.”

– From The Progress Report, a great e-mail newsletter to which I heartily recommend subscribing. The subscription window is in the right column of this page.

NOW: What else is going on in the world, or your very own world?

  • HARP

    Decision time BoBo.

  • mountainaires

    Obama lawyers set to defend Yoo
    By: Josh Gerstein
    January 28, 2009 09:49 AM EST

    Poltico

    In Democratic legal circles, no attorney has been more pilloried than former Bush Justice Department official John Yoo, chief author of the so-called torture memos that Barack Obama last week sought to nullify.

    But now President Obama’s incoming crew of lawyers has a new and somewhat awkward job: defending Yoo in federal court.

    Next week, Justice Department lawyers are set to ask a San Francisco federal judge to throw out a lawsuit brought against Yoo by Jose Padilla, a New York man held without charges on suspicion of being an Al Qaeda operative plotting to set off a “dirty bomb.”

    The suit contends that Yoo’s legal opinions authorized Bush to order Padilla’s detention in a Navy brig in South Carolina and encouraged military officials to subject Padilla to aggressive interrogation techniques, including death threats and long-term sensory deprivation.

    That’s not all. On Thursday, Justice Department lawyers are slated to be in Charleston, S.C., to ask a federal magistrate there to dismiss another lawsuit charging about a dozen current and former government officials with violating Padilla’s rights in connection with his unusual detention on U.S. soil, without charges or a trial.

    http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=1AB143EF-18FE-70B2-A8CCAFDB21E620DA

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

      OMG! While Padilla was bad news, I’m on his side on this law suit.

      That article nails it — talk about awkward.

      And Padilla was subjected to horrific treatment — he was completely disoriented from total sensory deprivation, and complete isolation from all human contact. We are better than that. And, even though I’m not keen on Obama, and wish to god Hillary were president, I’m glad we have an administration trying to undo this unnecessary cruelty.

      BTW: I wonder if Hillary could have finessed this to get the military judge to go along. I.e., she would have probably had sharper advisers and legal experts who could have “threaded the needle” to get the military judge to go along.

      It’ll be interesting to see what the legal experts have to say about WHY Obama failed.

      • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

        Speaking of which: DO ANY OF YOU visit any legal blogs that might be weighing in on this judge’s decision? I’d love to know what they’re saying.

        • http://www.cheneywatch.org/ truthtelling007

          I’ll scan a few I read, but here’s an important portion of a FoxNews article that covers the decision. Leaves me to ask, yes he’s a military judge, but Obama is his commander in chief…which trumps which? It isn’t part of the judicial branch.

          Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Thursday that Pohl would soon be told to comply with Obama’s executive order.

          “All I can really tell you is that this department will be in full compliance with the president’s executive order,” Morrell said at a news briefing. “There is no ifs, ands or buts about that.”

          “The president has signed an executive order and that sort of puts all this on hold as we go about and review a number of things related to Gitmo, our detention operations, our interrogation procedures,” he continued.

          “And so, while that executive order is in force and effect, trust me that there will be no proceedings continuing down at Gitmo with military commissions,” he added.

          I’ll find some more info and post it here.

          • athy

            truthtelling007,

            Could the military judge trump Pres.Obama by asking Pres Obama to produce his original, sealed birth certificate?

            If Pres. Obama can not do this-does the military judge still have a legal obligation to follow any executive orders issued by Pres. Obama?

          • http://www.cheneywatch.org/ truthtelling007

            The military judge is under the authority of the President per legislation, The Military Commissions Act of 2006.

            http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:s3930enr.txt.pdf

            So, what authority the judge thinks he has to override the Commander in Chief…is unclear. He is not a separate branch of power.

            • athy

              truthtelling007-

              See my post upthread about what authority the military judge MAY have…

              If he challenges Pres. Obama regarding access to Pres Obama’s sealed , original birth certificate-he (military judge) may have lots of authority depending upon Pres. Obama’s response

        • Just Me

          From the Judge’s article cited in Susan’s post:

          Could this be the determinant re Judge’s actions?

          “”The Commission is unaware of how conducting an arraignment would preclude any option by the administration,” Pohl wrote in an opinion obtained by The Washington Post. “Congress passed the military commissions act, which remains in effect. The Commission is bound by the law as it currently exists, not as it may change in the future.”

  • athy

    SusanUnPC
    excellent article.
    I will check on legal blogs for any info.

    For now…

    OPEN THREAD Item
    http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Blagojevich_calls_for_Kennedy_McCain_Emanuel_0129.html

    Blagojevich calls for Kennedy, McCain, Emanuel to be fired if he is getting impeached
    RAW STORY
    Published: Thursday January 29, 2009

    EXCERPT:

    During a speech at his impeachment trial in which he claimed that he had been “begging and pleading” to defend himself, the defiant Illinois governor indicted for allegedly attempting to sell President Obama’s former Senate seat to the highest bigger, argued that others were acting hypocritically.

    If he’s impeached, then Senators Ted Kennedy (Dem-Mass) and John McCain (Rep-Ariz) and Obama’s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel also deserve to be fired, said the Democratic governor who ended his “boycott” to give the speech Thursday at his hearing.

    Blagojevich referred to McCain and Kennedy during an interview with MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow on Tuesday.

    “They want to impeach me ‘cause I went to Canada in defiance of the FDA, in my first term, to get cheaper prescription medicines for our senior citizens so they can afford both their groceries and their medicine,” Blagojevich told Maddow. “That’s an impeachable offense, the people reelected me on that. They were also impeach the governor of Wisconsin, the governor of Kansas, the governor of Vermont, and why not expel John McCain and Ted Kennedy too because they worked with me on the issue of re-importation of prescription drugs.”

    Read the rest (follow link) if you get chance. Very interesting.

  • Steve1

    Well I against extreme forms of torture…but these dudes are not angels….what if one of these jerks is released and plays a part in killing one of your yours, in the name of their justice…?? Did our bombing of Dresden mean that those heros from WWII should have tried as war criminals…???? Tough one to figure out?

  • wodiej

    I’m not sure I understand the point of this thread….I’m against torture but prison is not supposed to be the Ritz either.

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

      No prison is the Ritz, and these people won’t be having a good time. Larry can verify that for you — I’d have him pop in and reply to you but he’s traveling today.

  • Mel’s Bar

    A lot of those judges are judges in the neocon Yoo mold, meaning they put ideology before the American legal code = too stupid to get it.

    So, Obama’s people need to take it to the next step, appeal it, and define the law.

    And the military has to clean itself of the morons, if it expects to survive.

    A man who can’t reason shouldn’t be judge.

    Remember, a lot of those CIA bureaucrats helped Cheney, stood by even when he and his group outed Plame, and ripped the Constitution, there is no lock on intelligence in those organizations.

    Some people are just dumb.

  • tek

    John Yoo is a truly disturbed individual. I think he’s at Berkeley now which is ironic. A good match for Dubya, though, both torture mongers.

  • Judy L. NC

    This was interesting. Thanks for posting, Susan & Larry.

  • truthorconsequences

    If Alcatraz is off limits then maybe Pelosi could have some of the stimulus money diverted to build the radical Islamics a condo in her neighborhood. That way she could see to their comfort.

    • LonnieH

      truthorconsequences…YOU ROCK. LMFAO.

  • LonnieH

    OMFG…I can’t BELIEVE this…Now the Military is NOT pledging allegiance to the CONSTITUTION, but they are going to be ordered to pledge allegiance to OBAMA? This country is going the way of Hitler Germany. It’s a disgrace.

    By Michele Chang

    Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is extremely frustrated with orders that the White House is contemplating. According to sources at the Pentagon, including all branches of the armed forces, the Obama Administration may break with a centuries-old tradition.

    A spokesman for General James Cartwright, the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, states that the Obama Administration wants to have soldiers and officers pledge a loyalty oath directly to the office of the President, and no longer to the Constitution.

    • Ani

      Link, please…

      Thanks.

      • LonnieH

        http://www.resistnet.com/profiles/blogs/military-to-pledge-oath-to

        What a joke Obama is. And this would allegedly take place around the 4th of July. How patriotic of the fraud. I can’t WAIT for the backlash against this nut.

        • UKforDems

          Do you have a link to a site that does not make Free Republic look liberal or do you believe every single ULTRA right NeoNazi Conspiracy Theory?

          • LonnieH

            LMFAO…yeah, of course, anything a conservative says is a lie. Don’t you get tired of saying that? Why don’t you look at who this person quotes? Yeah, right. As if this is something that COULDN’T happen. Your Messiah, ‘Bama has already stated he sees ZERO need for the Constitution or Declaration of Independence. So, why would this not be the truth? It’s right up there with his global “world leader” reign of terror. Prove it’s not true and I will retract it.

            Here’s one from the Daily Mail…Funny how Russia, China, Canada, the UK, etc. all know what a fraud Obama is, but the Kool-Aid drinkers and crackheads of the US are just now figuring it out.

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1131552/MARY-ELLEN-SYNON-Arrogant-home-naive-abroad-America-suffering-buyers-regret-Obama.html

            • UKforDems

              Comment by LonnieH | 2009-01-29 15:07:05

              LMFAO…yeah, of course, anything a conservative says is a lie. Don’t you get tired of saying that? Why don’t you look at who this person quotes? Yeah, right. As if this is something that COULDN’T happen. Your Messiah, ‘Bama has already stated he sees ZERO need for the Constitution or Declaration of Independence. So, why would this not be the truth? It’s right up there with his global “world leader” reign of terror. Prove it’s not true and I will retract it.

              Because the story is not true. You then say more things that are just completely window lickingly stupid to give credence to a story from a Stormfront copy. I have some white sheets I can sell you.

              Posting your stupidity in to google generates a story from GretaWire. And that is just a repeat of the post.

              This si not Conservative. This is not going to happen and the article quotes no one. You are a sad bitter bigot and on this I use the term most appropriately.

              Some red neck arms out brigade site is not Conservative. It is a red neck arms out brigade site. Just to make yourself mre stupid you post an article from the Daily Mail – nicknamed the Daily Hate in the UK for its sexism and homophobia.

              • LonnieH

                No, you’re stupid. Anything you don’t like is racist, bigoted, etc. What a jackass. There are two sides to everything. The Right is not automatically wrong because you are a paid Bot. Which you are. Do you see how MANY people here react negatively to your hate and left wing lunatic fringe nonsense? Look at all the responses to your BS posts. And then, like a two year old, you give us “nah nah nah nah Good Bye.” Like this country’s survival is a joke that your little baby IQ can play with. Give it a rest Bot. You can try to insult me all you want. Nothing a Bot says bothers any of us. It’s retarded crap.

                • Strawberrybitch

                  Gawd. Sitemoniter, can we have a little intervention here? No need for playground insults.

        • ziggy

          How about a link where we don’t have to register with some right-wing lunatic fringe website to read the freakin’ article?

          Obama loyalty oaths? Give people credit for having at least a few functional brain cells.

          • LonnieH

            The only people with ZERO functioning brain cells are the lunatic left wing fringe dwellers. This is ALL OVER THE NET…so sorry if you can’t read. Here it is AGAIN…

            http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/01/military-to-pledge-oath-to-obama-not.html

            • UKforDems

              Comment by LonnieH | 2009-01-29 15:12:47

              The only people with ZERO functioning brain cells are the lunatic left wing fringe dwellers. This is ALL OVER THE NET…so sorry if you can’t read. Here it is AGAIN…

              http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/01/military-to-pledge-oath-to-obama-not.html

              LoonieH – quite appropriate you link to another right wing blog and they all ask for proper sources. The only other fool as stupid as you is Orly Taizer.

              • UKforDems

                Quote from the same site.

                Anonymous said…

                Notice that the blog has lables or “tags”?

                Notice that the last one is “SATIRE”?

                You have been had.

                • LonnieH

                  Well what does it say that so many people believe it? IF it isn’t true now, I don’t doubt that it will eventually happen. Sorry, he himself has said that he finds the documents our country is founded on to be “flawed” and not necessary. Sometimes the best “satire” is just a look at our very bleak future.

                  On that note…here’s some more pay to play for the pork in the “Stimulus” (Porkulus) Bill:

                  http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/29/stimulus-includes-plum-lawmakers-son/

                  • http://www.cheneywatch.org/ truthtelling007

                    “Well what does it say that so many people believe it?”
                    “This is ALL OVER THE NET”

                    Argumentum ad populum
                    known also as
                    Appeal to Popularity fallacy:

                    This fallacious argument is both a red herring (distracting) and genetic fallacy.
                    It follows this pattern:
                    1. Many people believe in X (have favorable emotions towards X).
                    2. Therefore X is true.

                    Explanation

                    The Appeal to Popularity fallacy is committed when one bases the premise of an argument simply upon a widely held belief. The argument is a fallacy because no matter how popular the opinion, it can be and often is, incorrect. Example: it was a widely held belief that the Earth was the center of the universe, though we see now that is false. It was widely held that the Earth was flat, when we can now see it is spherical. It was widely held that diseases were caused by evil spirits or the gods.

                    The only valid use of an appeal to popularity is when simply addressing the beliefs themselves as beliefs. Many people believe that (X) is true…therefore it would could be true to say, many people believe in X.

                    Thats all.

                    But this all started with an Appeal to Authority fallacy. LonnieH is making the case that something is true because a source (X) says its true. When in fact the source may be both false or biased to the point of being incomplete, and thus false.

                    Sources require much better foundation than hearsay. His source is flawed and hearsay.

                    If he can cite a website that is official from the Army itself, or from other armed forces, then maybe it could be seen as credible.
                    And don’t be mistaken, people commit the Appeal to Authority fallacies with the NYTimes, WaPo and other papers all the time. Just because they print a story doesn’t make it true. The truth will be as valid as their ability to tell it.

                    • Strawberrybitch

                      Go get ‘em Truth!

                    • TeakwoodKite

                      The remarkable thing is BO used this fallacy to win the election.

                      Swearing an Oath to BO will never occur. (or at least that what people thought about Hitler and long line of despots.

                    • http://www.cheneywatch.org/ truthtelling007

                      I agree that BO and crew used a lot of fallacies to buoy their campaign.

                      They smeared the clintons with racist attacks, with fabrications about Somali attire, and that they had one the nomination even though the numbers said otherwise.

                      The beauty of understanding logical fallacy is it is a non-partisan tool that works on both sides and ‘other’.

            • ziggy

              Thanks for posting an alternate link.

              Seriously, we’ve got to be very careful not to believe everything we read, particularly on the internet. I think this particular article is a deliberate fabrication intended to deceive people–not just spin, but an outright lie. I don’t trust anything like this unless verifiable sources are given.

              It it were true, it would outrage Americans on the left and right alike.

              • LonnieH

                How long are we going to believe the TRUTH about Obama to be a lie? Come on people. Really. Whether a few of you are paid Bots, or not, so what. Any adult with a brain knows the BC situation is the truth. And, now, Obama is using his “Muslim” family to curry favor and apologize to people who don’t like us. Funny, if WE mentioned the Muslim thing we got FRIED and called “bigots.” But, now he himself is saying it. We also got fried for using “Hussein” and now he’s using it.

                I think the problem is that so MUCH of Obama is a lie and twisted bunch of nonsense, that people are ready to believe the worst. As for calling us “morons,” give me a break. This stuff is true, all the way down to Larry Sinclair. Just because people want it to be a lie doesn’t make it one.

              • LonnieH

                I’m already outraged ziggy. Every day of my life. That’s why stuff like this is just another day in Obama hell for most of us.

                • UKforDems

                  Enjoy it. 8 more years and probably 8 of Hillary after that. You are called a bigot because you are a stupid bigot. Even Free Republic will not take your silly bigot post. Are they “Bots”?

              • Ferd Berfle

                Oh, no. It’s the Zig-Zag man, Zippy back at it, smoking his jimson weed to keep himself from getting nauseous from the hogwash he’s paid to post.

                I don’t trust anything like this unless verifiable sources are given.

                Tha would be a prevarication of the first order, especially given your penchant for spin, as regulars here have long been accustomed to from you, Zippy.

                • ziggy

                  The stimulus package has earmarked a few bucks to stimulate the prevarications of paid, minimum-wage prevaricators such as myself. We’ll also get a small stipend for cigarettes, coffee, and donuts. We’re hoping the latter will be tax exempt under the tax cut provisions aimed at small businesses.

                  • LonnieH

                    At least the Zig-man is honest about his status as a paid Bot Prevaricator. UKforDems hasn’t quite evolved enough to cop to his plight in life yet.

    • UKforDems

      There is Michelle Chang from Berkely Dept of Chemistry or the Tekken Game? So which is it?

    • athy

      Lonnie,
      I think this was meant as a satire in original post.
      It is difficult to source this story because no specific names for quote attribution are provided in original story.

      I have seen this happen quite often where blog authors post something meant to be a satire (kind of like what THE ONION writers produce) however they neglect to indicate that this is a satire.

      Honestly, I have read actual news stories recently (govt, politics, business) that were so fantastic-BUT TRUE-that I have had to do double-takes to make sure that the authors were not pulling my leg.

      Crazy times we are living in.

      Verify EVERYTHING before you believe it.

      As any good journalist will tell you
      “If your mother tells you she loves you-VERIFY IT-before you put it in print! :)

      Alarm bells should go off if there are no quotes that can be directly attributed to specific individuals.

      Nowadays, many people are looking elsewhere for the collection of their news. They no longer trust the msm to properly inform them.

      Nothing wrong with this-there are some EXCELLENT citizen journalist websites that abide by sound journalistic standards (many do so on a more stringent basis than our msm!).

      However-one caveat-
      V E R I F Y E V E R Y T H I N G you hear and read.

      P.S

      When providing a link to sources – bloggers should make sure to specify if the article is a News story or an Opinion piece (editorial). Big difference!

  • oowawa

    As Pelosi said yesterday on ABC’s This Week, “Alcatraz is a tourist attraction. It’s a prison that is now sort of like a — it’s a national park.”

    Well, the buildings are still there, and it’s still a pretty safe spot to store dangerous people. And if it’s a tourist attraction now, just think of how much more of a money-maker it’ll be once it is full of Jihadists!

    Tours circling Alcatraz leave Pier 911 hourly. Wave to a terrorist! Bring the whole family!

    • oowawa

      Hmmmm . . . There could be a special adults only “Moonlight Cruise” where the passengers would be able to line up along the railing and “moon” the Jihadists on Alcatraz . . .

  • http://firefox AnnieCollier

    Yes, Larry we know Alcatraz is not an option and is a public cash cow. I think we were all being snarky there. However, just the other day it came to light that one of our jailers had been providing “quiet time” and yoga practice for his prisoners. Now I can see the reason for that…if effective, they would be much easier to manage and the constant noise in prisons must contribute to madness and violence. And, better yoga than weight lifting for more testosterone. However, the guys at Gitmo don’t have the constant roar to deal with and they do get to pray 5x per day, have ocean breezes and decent food. If I thought they’d benefit and become peaceful by learning meditation, I’d be for it. But that’s the deal. You can’t force someone to actually meditate or become peaceful so it’s up for scamming.

    As one of my Hindu friends said “Oh, Annie if only the Muslims would stop eating meat, they’d stop being so violent.” If only.

    They need to find out who’s guilty and keep them locked away from society. For our safety.

  • athy

    OPEN THREAD:

    Leave it to Greg Palast to tell it like it is…

    http://www.gregpalast.com/obama-is-a-two-faced-liar-aw-right/#more-2181

    Here is an excerpt from his latest editorial:

    Obama is a two-faced liar. Aw-RIGHT!
    by Greg Palast

    January 29, 2009

    Republicans are right. President Barack Obama treated them like dirt, didn’t give a damn what they thought about his stimulus package, loaded it with a bunch of programs that will last for years and will never leave the budget, is giving away money disguised as “tax refunds,” and is sneaking in huge changes in policy, from schools to health care, using the pretext of an economic emergency.

    Way to go, Mr. O! Mr. Down-and-Dirty Chicago pol. Street-fightin’ man. Covering over his break-you-face power play with a “we’re all post-partisan friends” BS.

    And it’s about time.

    Frankly, I was worried about this guy. Obama’s appointing Clinton-droids to the Cabinet, bloated incompetents like Larry Summers as “Economics Czar,” made me fear for my country, that we’d gotten another Democrat who wished he were a Republican.

    Then came Obama’s money bomb. The house bill included $125 billion for schools (TRIPLING federal spending on education), expanding insurance coverage to the unemployed, making the most progressive change in the tax code in four decades by creating a $500 credit against social security payroll deductions, and so on.

    It’s as if Obama dug up Ronald Reagan’s carcass and put a stake through The Gipper’s anti-government heart. Aw-RIGHT!

    About the only concession Obama threw to the right-wing trogs was to remove the subsidy for condoms, leaving hooker-happy GOP Senators, like David Vitter, to pay for their own protection. S’OK with me.

    And here’s the proof that Bam is The Man: Not one single Republican congressman voted for the bill. And that means that Obama didn’t compromise, the way Clinton and Carter would have, to win the love of these condom-less jerks.

  • Ferd Berfle

    And that means that Obama didn’t compromise, the way Clinton and Carter would have, to win the love of these condom-less jerks.

    So much for unity and hopey-changey a-comin’ to Wahington, D.C.

    LMAO.

    • UKforDems

      Comment by Ferd Berfle | 2009-01-29 16:02:05

      And that means that Obama didn’t compromise, the way Clinton and Carter would have, to win the love of these condom-less jerks.

      So much for unity and hopey-changey a-comin’ to Wahington, D.C.

      LMAO.

      And that means reminding them of who won.

      • LonnieH

        Oh please. He didn’t win crap. He’s America’s biggest con job. Do they really pay you to say all this crap?

        • UKforDems

          69 million voters – despite GOP voter supression (making people wait in lines for 8 hours in Democratic areas). You had your Republican asses rubbed in your face and will do until you learn why you lost.

          • oowawa

            69 million voters

            Ooooo-that’s a big number! I can never visualize these big big numbers. Let’s see, if each voter were 5 feet tall, that would be 345,000,000 feet, or 65,340 miles, and the circumference of the Earth is only 24,900 miles, so that means if all the 69,000,000 voters layed down end to end, or even held hands standing up, they would stretch all around the equator and then some! All I can say is: Holy Kumbaya! That’s awesome! And, I might add, certain proof that those of us who are not in the conga line are a big bunch of dummies!

          • Ferd Berfle

            Ah, the old ad populum argument. If x number of people vote for something, it must be good.

            Yeah, Pommy, and if those same folks said dining out of a litter box was nutricious, you’d be there with fork in hand.

            You really are a troll, 10-watter.

            • http://www.cheneywatch.org/ truthtelling007

              False, he didn’t make an appeal to popularity about something being good, just that they won.

              If you are going to twist his words from “won” to “good” then you are arguing with yourself.

              • Seattle Moss

                Hey Truthtelling!

                Guess what?

                Cheney is a hero in my book!!!

                • http://www.cheneywatch.org/ truthtelling007

                  So what. That’s your business.

                  • Seattle Moss

                    Truthtelling,
                    I got to give you credit as you know I do to those that have kept us safe.
                    You actually have some class with that answer of yous!

          • LonnieH

            UKforDems…you are a traitor and a disgrace. Oh, yeah, and a liar.

          • Pennsylvania Red

            despite GOP voter supression (making people wait in lines for 8 hours in Democratic areas).

            Be specific.

            Where exactly?

            My friend’s daughter’s voting place was overrun by busloads of AA youths demanding to vote, even though most of them had no valid registrations. This particular polling place had never experienced such disruption on election day. There is an AA university nearby, for years election day came and went with no trouble. This year longtime residents turned away in frustration after waiting hours on line and not being able to cast their vote. There were residents of that precinct who were actually afraid for their safety in that heretofore placid sylvan community:
            Lower Oxford, PA

            Talk about voter suppression…
            talk about voter intimidation…

            and we won’t even mention the Black Panthers standing guard in North Philly.

            or should we?

            • JustMe

              or the dead the dogs and cats and babies all tagging along…

      • Ferd Berfle

        And that means reminding them of who won.

        Again, turd, what does winning have to do with being true to your campaign promises like That One made? You’re esssentially saying that the end justifies the means, which is moral and ethical relativism–just like the bushbots believe.

        That means you’re just a lying sack of shit like the other trolls who infest this blog. If I cared for any more shit from you, I’d squeeze your tiny little head.

  • NYC

    These UK assholes are always polluting the American forums/blogs. A bunch of drunkards they are…

    • Ferd Berfle

      UKelele, like the instrument, is a tinny little piece of work.

    • JustMe

      LOL UKdem is but as an ex pat were not all drunkards : hiccup LOL….
      BRB let me find my Gin ~~ Opps did I say that out loud.

      Clear off UKDamage your embarrassing expats who live in the States.
      It’s bed time now so mosey on off.

  • athy

    OPEN THREAD

    US diplomat challenges Clinton’s appointment

    http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_diplomat_challenges_Clinton_s_ap_01292009.html

    EXCERPT

    A US diplomat has filed a lawsuit charging that Hillary Clinton’s appointment as secretary of state is unconstitutional, a watchdog group representing him said Thursday.

    The lawsuit filed by David Rodearmel argues that Clinton is “ineligible” for the job because the Senate approved, while she was a senator, a salary raise for her predecessor Condoleezza Rice, Judicial Watch said in a statement.

    According to article one, section six of the US constitution: “No Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time.”

  • Ted

    The Joint Chiefs of Staff HAVE AN ABSOLUTE CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY to stand behind Guantanamo Military Judge James Pohl UNTIL OBAMA OVERCOMES “RES IPSA LOQUITUR” BY SUPPLYING HIS LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND PROVING HIS ELIGIBILITY TO BE PRESIDENT UNDER ARTICLE 2 OF THE US CONSTITUTION.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/29/AR2009012902021.html?wprss=rss_nation

  • LonnieH

    I think if Larry and Susan knew how MANY people leave immediately when Strwbitch and WC show up, maybe they would understand the drop in traffic. You two are so ugly and mean that people just split. Good luck with that Susan and Larry. These two make people puke.

  • Strawberrybitch

    OIAF. Seek help.

  • LonnieH

    I did. They told me that threats from some bull D**ke carried a term of 5 to 15 in the big house. See you there.

  • Strawberrybitch

    OIAF/Lonnie. You’ve been banned. Why do you insist on coming back to a place that doesn’t want your rude, unbalanced spewings? I’m concerned about you at this point. You really need to get some help. Get out of the house, meet people, develop some real relationships.

  • LonnieH

    Strawbitch…Any so called “woman” who threatens to kill another woman…do you actually think people here think you are mentally well? Really? Do you want me to forward all the emails I get about how ugly you are to Susan and Larry? Banned? WTF are you talking about? OIAF? Hmmmm…Wow are you psycho. Obsess much?

  • Strawberrybitch

    Um, just keep talking OIAF. Just keep talking. In fact, I WANT you to keep talking. Wow. Poor, sad old dear.