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	<title>Comments on: Wide Open Thread + Greenwald on the Media</title>
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	<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/</link>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-160684</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 00:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-160684</guid>
		<description>I agree, 41% is ridiculous. Fortunately, it&#039;s incorrect. 872 delegates out of over 4,000 is nowhere near 41%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, 41% is ridiculous. Fortunately, it&#8217;s incorrect. 872 delegates out of over 4,000 is nowhere near 41%.</p>
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		<title>By: TeakWoodKite</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-102421</link>
		<dc:creator>TeakWoodKite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 06:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-102421</guid>
		<description>Even though it can be manipulated. I ran into a fun entry. I was reading the Islamo thread Larry started. He sited Gertz

http://www.gertzfile.com/gertzfile/InsidetheRing.html

further down was a entry

&lt;blockquote&gt;3Com probe
The Treasury Department-led Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) this week extended an initial 30-day investigation into the national security implications of the proposed merger between 3Com and China&#039;s Huawei Technologies&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;The 3Com deal involves a buyout led by Bain Capital Partners, with Huawei holding a minority stake. Bain spokesman Alex Stanton declined to comment on the extended probe but said &quot;Bain Capital is working closely with CFIUS to provide U.S. officials with information about the proposed transaction.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When you google Bain Capital Partners and  Carlyle Group and Mitt Romney come up....and whole lot of money. It would make Mr. Murder proud.
Sure would be great to clean that CFIUS with bleach. Isn&#039;t that what you use at the cleaner?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though it can be manipulated. I ran into a fun entry. I was reading the Islamo thread Larry started. He sited Gertz</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gertzfile.com/gertzfile/InsidetheRing.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gertzfile.com/gertzfile/InsidetheRing.html</a></p>
<p>further down was a entry</p>
<blockquote><p>3Com probe<br />
The Treasury Department-led Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) this week extended an initial 30-day investigation into the national security implications of the proposed merger between 3Com and China&#8217;s Huawei Technologies</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>The 3Com deal involves a buyout led by Bain Capital Partners, with Huawei holding a minority stake. Bain spokesman Alex Stanton declined to comment on the extended probe but said &#8220;Bain Capital is working closely with CFIUS to provide U.S. officials with information about the proposed transaction.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>When you google Bain Capital Partners and  Carlyle Group and Mitt Romney come up&#8230;.and whole lot of money. It would make Mr. Murder proud.<br />
Sure would be great to clean that CFIUS with bleach. Isn&#8217;t that what you use at the cleaner?</p>
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		<title>By: Shirin</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-102397</link>
		<dc:creator>Shirin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 06:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-102397</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t say it as well as &lt;a href=&quot;http://angryarab.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Prof. As`ad Abu Khalil&lt;/a&gt; has, so I won&#039;t try: 

&quot;&lt;i&gt;Poor US. US media just reported that Iranian boats &quot;provoked&quot; US boats around....the Strait of Hurmuz. And Iraqis have been provoking the US in....Iraq, and some Afghans have been provoking the US in....Afghanistan. I don&#039;t get it. Why don&#039;t they leave the US alone, for potato&#039;s sake. So please, stop picking on the US when they roam your waters and occupy your lands.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t say it as well as <a href="http://angryarab.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Prof. As`ad Abu Khalil</a> has, so I won&#8217;t try: </p>
<p>&#8220;<i>Poor US. US media just reported that Iranian boats &#8220;provoked&#8221; US boats around&#8230;.the Strait of Hurmuz. And Iraqis have been provoking the US in&#8230;.Iraq, and some Afghans have been provoking the US in&#8230;.Afghanistan. I don&#8217;t get it. Why don&#8217;t they leave the US alone, for potato&#8217;s sake. So please, stop picking on the US when they roam your waters and occupy your lands.</i>&#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: G Hazeltine</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-102393</link>
		<dc:creator>G Hazeltine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 06:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-102393</guid>
		<description>Those Iranians on the other hand probably don&#039;t need wikipedia, and may have different ideas about what constitutes harrassment and provocation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those Iranians on the other hand probably don&#8217;t need wikipedia, and may have different ideas about what constitutes harrassment and provocation.</p>
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		<title>By: G Hazeltine</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-102378</link>
		<dc:creator>G Hazeltine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 06:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-102378</guid>
		<description>We have some bad history here. I should have remembered this. We (the USS Vincennes) shot down an Iranian airbus in 1988, over the Strait of Hormuz, killing 290 civilians. All an &#039;accident&#039; of course, (the Aegis cruiser captain &#039;thought&#039; it was an F-14 diving, not an airbus climbing) except, from wikipedia:

&quot;&quot;Captain David Carlson, commander of the USS Sides, the warship stationed near to the Vincennes at the time of the incident, is reported (Fisk, 2005) to have said that the destruction of the aircraft &quot;marked the horrifying climax to Captain Rogers&#039; aggressiveness, first seen four weeks ago.&quot; His comment referred to incidents on June 2, when Rogers had sailed the Vincennes too close to an Iranian frigate undertaking a lawful search of a bulk carrier, launched a helicopter within 2-3 miles (3.2-4.8 km) of an Iranian small craft despite rules of engagement requiring a four-mile (6.4 km) separation, and opened fire on a number of small Iranian military boats. Of those incidents, Carlson commented, &quot;Why do you want an Aegis cruiser out there shooting up boats? It wasn&#039;t a smart thing to do.&quot; At the time of Rogers&#039; announcement to higher command that he was going to shoot down the plane, Carlson is reported (Fisk, 2005) to have been thunderstruck: &quot;I said to folks around me, &#039;Why, what the hell is he doing?&#039; I went through the drill again. F-14. He’s climbing. By now this damn thing is at 7,000 feet.&quot;

These the public opinions of a Navy Captain who witnessed the incidents.

Not far from where the Iranians just &#039;challenged,&#039; &#039;harrassed&#039; and &#039;provoked&#039; us. Oh America of short memory. Thank god for wikipedia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have some bad history here. I should have remembered this. We (the USS Vincennes) shot down an Iranian airbus in 1988, over the Strait of Hormuz, killing 290 civilians. All an &#8216;accident&#8217; of course, (the Aegis cruiser captain &#8216;thought&#8217; it was an F-14 diving, not an airbus climbing) except, from wikipedia:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8221;Captain David Carlson, commander of the USS Sides, the warship stationed near to the Vincennes at the time of the incident, is reported (Fisk, 2005) to have said that the destruction of the aircraft &#8220;marked the horrifying climax to Captain Rogers&#8217; aggressiveness, first seen four weeks ago.&#8221; His comment referred to incidents on June 2, when Rogers had sailed the Vincennes too close to an Iranian frigate undertaking a lawful search of a bulk carrier, launched a helicopter within 2-3 miles (3.2-4.8 km) of an Iranian small craft despite rules of engagement requiring a four-mile (6.4 km) separation, and opened fire on a number of small Iranian military boats. Of those incidents, Carlson commented, &#8220;Why do you want an Aegis cruiser out there shooting up boats? It wasn&#8217;t a smart thing to do.&#8221; At the time of Rogers&#8217; announcement to higher command that he was going to shoot down the plane, Carlson is reported (Fisk, 2005) to have been thunderstruck: &#8220;I said to folks around me, &#8216;Why, what the hell is he doing?&#8217; I went through the drill again. F-14. He’s climbing. By now this damn thing is at 7,000 feet.&#8221;</p>
<p>These the public opinions of a Navy Captain who witnessed the incidents.</p>
<p>Not far from where the Iranians just &#8216;challenged,&#8217; &#8216;harrassed&#8217; and &#8216;provoked&#8217; us. Oh America of short memory. Thank god for wikipedia.</p>
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		<title>By: ybnormal</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101819</link>
		<dc:creator>ybnormal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101819</guid>
		<description>On that note, isn&#039;t it interesting how Dodd turned out?  Whether one agrees with him or not, more than anyone else he put extra focus on the credibility of his experience with numerous examples to show how he accomplished things, and how he made the right choices to work with the other key people in key ways.

His reward for that effort was a whopping 1%.  While some people, such as yourself, do care about real issues and experience, others merely claim to, while they vote otherwise on entertainment value.  Obama reminds me of Reagan in this way; all platitude and no substance.

Still others, like the C-Span caller above, come right out and admit they don&#039;t care about experience.  For whatever that&#039;s worth, at least she was honest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On that note, isn&#8217;t it interesting how Dodd turned out?  Whether one agrees with him or not, more than anyone else he put extra focus on the credibility of his experience with numerous examples to show how he accomplished things, and how he made the right choices to work with the other key people in key ways.</p>
<p>His reward for that effort was a whopping 1%.  While some people, such as yourself, do care about real issues and experience, others merely claim to, while they vote otherwise on entertainment value.  Obama reminds me of Reagan in this way; all platitude and no substance.</p>
<p>Still others, like the C-Span caller above, come right out and admit they don&#8217;t care about experience.  For whatever that&#8217;s worth, at least she was honest.</p>
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		<title>By: Shirin</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101698</link>
		<dc:creator>Shirin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101698</guid>
		<description>American politics, at least at the presidential level, has always been more about personality appeals, emotion, and rhetoric than about anything of substance, but I agree with you that this time it seems worse than usual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>American politics, at least at the presidential level, has always been more about personality appeals, emotion, and rhetoric than about anything of substance, but I agree with you that this time it seems worse than usual.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101638</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101638</guid>
		<description>Contact Amy let her  know what you think about her coverage or lack of.
http://www.democracynow.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contact Amy let her  know what you think about her coverage or lack of.<br />
<a href="http://www.democracynow.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.democracynow.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101618</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101618</guid>
		<description>http://www.democracynow.org/

so incredibly disappointing even Amy Goodman ignoring Edwards today in her coverage of the New Hampshire Primary.  It&#039;s as if Clinton and Obama are the only candidates.  It&#039;s as if Edwards did not come in second place in Iowa.  WTF is up with Amy Goodman?  She has not even mentioned that Edwards is in the race.

I was astounded when I heard Mark Green of Air America&#039;s 7 days in America(found out he is the owner of Air America) this past Saturday cheerlead for Barack Obama along with Arianna Huffington and Gary Hart.  Mark Green did not bring Edwards up and when Katrina from the Nation brought Edwards up...Mark Green swept Edwards under the rug.

But Amy Amy Goodman is ignoring Edwards too.

What&#039;s up Amy?  What&#039;s up Mark Green?  We expect this out of Chris Matthews but you too.

What do these folks have against Edwards.

Go listen to Amy for yourselves.  Fair and Balanced.

Glenn Greenwald might want to think about reviewing the so called &quot;progressives&quot; coverage of Edwards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.democracynow.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.democracynow.org/</a></p>
<p>so incredibly disappointing even Amy Goodman ignoring Edwards today in her coverage of the New Hampshire Primary.  It&#8217;s as if Clinton and Obama are the only candidates.  It&#8217;s as if Edwards did not come in second place in Iowa.  WTF is up with Amy Goodman?  She has not even mentioned that Edwards is in the race.</p>
<p>I was astounded when I heard Mark Green of Air America&#8217;s 7 days in America(found out he is the owner of Air America) this past Saturday cheerlead for Barack Obama along with Arianna Huffington and Gary Hart.  Mark Green did not bring Edwards up and when Katrina from the Nation brought Edwards up&#8230;Mark Green swept Edwards under the rug.</p>
<p>But Amy Amy Goodman is ignoring Edwards too.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s up Amy?  What&#8217;s up Mark Green?  We expect this out of Chris Matthews but you too.</p>
<p>What do these folks have against Edwards.</p>
<p>Go listen to Amy for yourselves.  Fair and Balanced.</p>
<p>Glenn Greenwald might want to think about reviewing the so called &#8220;progressives&#8221; coverage of Edwards.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101584</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101584</guid>
		<description>Israel to brief Bush on options for Iran strike during visit
John Byrne
Published: Monday January 7, 2008


http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Israel_to_brief_Bush_on_options_0107.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel to brief Bush on options for Iran strike during visit<br />
John Byrne<br />
Published: Monday January 7, 2008</p>
<p><a href="http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Israel_to_brief_Bush_on_options_0107.html" rel="nofollow">http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Israel_to_brief_Bush_on_options_0107.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: ybnormal</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101568</link>
		<dc:creator>ybnormal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101568</guid>
		<description>Wide Open Thread
Presidential Election - The Worst Shopping Experience

When I go to the store, I like to know what I&#039;m getting.  I read some of the ingredients I can pronounce, check the price, remember what I know about the manufacturer and then consider whether I even need this thing at all.  It&#039;s a cost/benefit experience.

I feel as though this election cycle, more than most I can remember, is more like shopping for a religion, or maybe a rock concert performer.  When Obama beckons the audience by opening with, &quot;Are you ready for change?&quot;, it reminds me of the televangelist&#039;s &quot;Can you feel the presence of the Lord?&quot;  It also reminds me of Vince Neil opening a Motley Crue concert by shouting &quot;Are you ready to rock?&quot;.  A cynical fan might think, &quot;No Shit Sherlock, that&#039;s why I paid 50 bucks to be here&quot;.  Except that cynical fan is more likely to be down the street at the Leonard Cohen concert where he&#039;s singing, &lt;em&gt;Everybody knows that the war is over; Eeverybody knows that the good guys lost.&lt;/em&gt;

Obama talks about change.  Change what?  I guess it doesn&#039;t matter to most of his supporters.  On a C-SPAN call in show the other day during the Iowa Caucuses, the host took one of those occasional moments to question the caller.  &#039;What do you think about his experience, or lack of it, that people are talking about?&#039;  - &#039;The people in politics now are experienced, and look what that got us.&#039; - &#039;Do you think he&#039;s a liberal candidate?&#039; - &#039;Well I don&#039;t know, but I like the convincing way he expresses the need for change&#039;.

So it seems as though Obama appeals to those who are drawn to the dream of change, without worrying about how it&#039;s supposed to actually work.  Meanwhile, Clinton appeals to those who value &quot;hard work&quot;, Edwards appeals to those who want justice for being shafted, Giuliani appeals to those who want shelter from their fear of another 9/11, and Ron Paul appeals to those who just want to be left alone.  Choose your entertainment, the choices are numerous; you know, just like cable TV.

I&#039;m having real trouble with this campaign because my cost/benefit shopping instinct is being convoluted with personality appeals over and above real issues.  The news media doesn&#039;t help much.  Lot&#039;s of reptorting similar to watching an episode of a reality show like &#039;Survivor&#039;, where the most entertaining moments are when the contestants get to &#039;dis&#039; each other.

Of course it&#039;s not ALL this way.  Facts can be found, especially using this same computer I&#039;m now typing on.  Unfortunately though, the processor speed of the computer has nothing to do with the speed at which I can find information I can use.  The information explosion of the internet has resulted in a proportional explosion of bullshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wide Open Thread<br />
Presidential Election &#8211; The Worst Shopping Experience</p>
<p>When I go to the store, I like to know what I&#8217;m getting.  I read some of the ingredients I can pronounce, check the price, remember what I know about the manufacturer and then consider whether I even need this thing at all.  It&#8217;s a cost/benefit experience.</p>
<p>I feel as though this election cycle, more than most I can remember, is more like shopping for a religion, or maybe a rock concert performer.  When Obama beckons the audience by opening with, &#8220;Are you ready for change?&#8221;, it reminds me of the televangelist&#8217;s &#8220;Can you feel the presence of the Lord?&#8221;  It also reminds me of Vince Neil opening a Motley Crue concert by shouting &#8220;Are you ready to rock?&#8221;.  A cynical fan might think, &#8220;No Shit Sherlock, that&#8217;s why I paid 50 bucks to be here&#8221;.  Except that cynical fan is more likely to be down the street at the Leonard Cohen concert where he&#8217;s singing, <em>Everybody knows that the war is over; Eeverybody knows that the good guys lost.</em></p>
<p>Obama talks about change.  Change what?  I guess it doesn&#8217;t matter to most of his supporters.  On a C-SPAN call in show the other day during the Iowa Caucuses, the host took one of those occasional moments to question the caller.  &#8216;What do you think about his experience, or lack of it, that people are talking about?&#8217;  &#8211; &#8216;The people in politics now are experienced, and look what that got us.&#8217; &#8211; &#8216;Do you think he&#8217;s a liberal candidate?&#8217; &#8211; &#8216;Well I don&#8217;t know, but I like the convincing way he expresses the need for change&#8217;.</p>
<p>So it seems as though Obama appeals to those who are drawn to the dream of change, without worrying about how it&#8217;s supposed to actually work.  Meanwhile, Clinton appeals to those who value &#8220;hard work&#8221;, Edwards appeals to those who want justice for being shafted, Giuliani appeals to those who want shelter from their fear of another 9/11, and Ron Paul appeals to those who just want to be left alone.  Choose your entertainment, the choices are numerous; you know, just like cable TV.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m having real trouble with this campaign because my cost/benefit shopping instinct is being convoluted with personality appeals over and above real issues.  The news media doesn&#8217;t help much.  Lot&#8217;s of reptorting similar to watching an episode of a reality show like &#8216;Survivor&#8217;, where the most entertaining moments are when the contestants get to &#8216;dis&#8217; each other.</p>
<p>Of course it&#8217;s not ALL this way.  Facts can be found, especially using this same computer I&#8217;m now typing on.  Unfortunately though, the processor speed of the computer has nothing to do with the speed at which I can find information I can use.  The information explosion of the internet has resulted in a proportional explosion of bullshit.</p>
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		<title>By: Michel</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101482</link>
		<dc:creator>Michel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101482</guid>
		<description>OK, I found it!

Just replace the USMC patrol getting hit outside the Badrah base by what just happened at sea, and there we could have it: WWIII!!!
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=11666</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I found it!</p>
<p>Just replace the USMC patrol getting hit outside the Badrah base by what just happened at sea, and there we could have it: WWIII!!!<br />
<a href="http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=11666" rel="nofollow">http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=11666</a></p>
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		<title>By: Independent</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101449</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101449</guid>
		<description>Butt, Butt. the media was fine when Hillary was leading in all the polls Before Iowa/New Hampshire. It&#039;s not the media, it&#039;s not the sexist&#039;s, it is the voters who have Listened, close up, one on one who are deciding they want Obama instead. If she can&#039;t match the &quot;green&quot; Obama then she does not deserve the nomination. Experience holds no sway with me, just look back at the last seven years and tell me experience at BushCo brought us anything but grief.
It&#039;s a lose lose for me no matter who wins. Everyone of them is going to open up the border to all the illegals that can make it here. The health care industry will remain alive and well they will just be getting more Tax money on top of the high premiums. We will remain mired in Iraq no matter who wins. The more they say &quot;change&quot; the more things will remain the same. 
I&#039;ve been around for a LOT of elections and this is just another one. It&#039;s a Big Biz world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Butt, Butt. the media was fine when Hillary was leading in all the polls Before Iowa/New Hampshire. It&#8217;s not the media, it&#8217;s not the sexist&#8217;s, it is the voters who have Listened, close up, one on one who are deciding they want Obama instead. If she can&#8217;t match the &#8220;green&#8221; Obama then she does not deserve the nomination. Experience holds no sway with me, just look back at the last seven years and tell me experience at BushCo brought us anything but grief.<br />
It&#8217;s a lose lose for me no matter who wins. Everyone of them is going to open up the border to all the illegals that can make it here. The health care industry will remain alive and well they will just be getting more Tax money on top of the high premiums. We will remain mired in Iraq no matter who wins. The more they say &#8220;change&#8221; the more things will remain the same.<br />
I&#8217;ve been around for a LOT of elections and this is just another one. It&#8217;s a Big Biz world.</p>
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		<title>By: Michel</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101291</link>
		<dc:creator>Michel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101291</guid>
		<description>Larry&#039;s colleague, Phil Giraldi, published some months ago a fascinating scenario of the start of WWIII, that start being a minor confrontation on land.
It could also happen at sea. 
Maybe Larry (or Susan, or Leslie) could find the link to Giraldi&#039;s &quot;fiction&quot;!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry&#8217;s colleague, Phil Giraldi, published some months ago a fascinating scenario of the start of WWIII, that start being a minor confrontation on land.<br />
It could also happen at sea.<br />
Maybe Larry (or Susan, or Leslie) could find the link to Giraldi&#8217;s &#8220;fiction&#8221;!!</p>
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		<title>By: Shirin</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1279/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101126</link>
		<dc:creator>Shirin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 07:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/07/wide-open-thread-greenwald-on-the-media/#comment-101126</guid>
		<description>Well, all good things must come to an end! But I am glad someone around here agrees with me most of the time at least! :o}

Look, I am familiar with both of the quotations you offered, and I agree completely with both of them, in principle. But at what point, after it has been crystal clear that you are engaged in an exercise in futility, does it make sense to move on and put your energies elsewhere? 

Need I remind you that it is American domestic politics that brought eight years of George W. Bush upon the world? That the glorious Congress willingly sent Iraq into a more or less permanent hell (and let&#039;s not even discuss that supposedly &quot;justified&quot; business with Afghanistan), and may have opened the door to yet more folly in Iran and god knows where else in the next year? 

May I point out that with the acquiescence of the glorious Congress, and in some cases the cooperation of the judiciary, the Constitution has been put into and industrial strength shredder, and the concept of human rights has been all but obliterated? 

May I point out that with the whole-hearted cooperation of the entire U.S. government, every branch, any positive relationship of the United States with the rest of the world has all but been destroyed, and it has become crystal clear why &quot;they hate us&quot; - everywhere? 

May I remind you that the glorious Congress has willingly approved such atrocities as the Patriot Act? And that the glorious Congress, even under Democratic party dominance, has rolled over and peed on itself like an excessively submissive puppy dog on virtually every issue that matters?

The American political system is based on everything except what it SHOULD be based on. Where is the substance? Where are the things that really matter? It is all so bloody superficial. Even here in this serious and sophisticated company we have day after day after day of almost nothing but trying to promote one candidate by means of constant tiresome bashing of her opponent. We have people here seriously talking about voting for someone for president of this country simply because she is being unfairly attacked - what kind of bullshit is that? 

And elsewhere we see this same candidate vilified not for her record on things that matter, and not for her stated policies, but why? Because she didn&#039;t leave her cheating husband, or because she does not come across publicly as &quot;warm&quot; or &quot;feminine enough&quot; - as if that has anything to do with her ability to be president.

And then we have Obama, who orates nicely, but says little (hell, even Bush can sound OK when he is reading what others have written for him) while the candidates who have something of substance to say are virtually completely ignored. 

Today I listened to a woman who was at one of the Iowa caucuses talking about the roll of the media in all this. She said that while the three &quot;top&quot; candidates talked a lot about what they wanted to do and what should happen, it was only the four others who had anything to say about how they would accomplish their goals, and it was those four who got zero attention. It&#039;s easy to talk big about what you&#039;re going to do, but it is meaningless without some idea of how you will do it.

There is no substance to this process. It is all about who can buy the best P.R. people, or who has the best line of bull, or who can most effectively - and more often than not utterly unfairly or irrelevantly - attack the opposition. 

End of semi-coherent rant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, all good things must come to an end! But I am glad someone around here agrees with me most of the time at least! <img src='http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> }</p>
<p>Look, I am familiar with both of the quotations you offered, and I agree completely with both of them, in principle. But at what point, after it has been crystal clear that you are engaged in an exercise in futility, does it make sense to move on and put your energies elsewhere? </p>
<p>Need I remind you that it is American domestic politics that brought eight years of George W. Bush upon the world? That the glorious Congress willingly sent Iraq into a more or less permanent hell (and let&#8217;s not even discuss that supposedly &#8220;justified&#8221; business with Afghanistan), and may have opened the door to yet more folly in Iran and god knows where else in the next year? </p>
<p>May I point out that with the acquiescence of the glorious Congress, and in some cases the cooperation of the judiciary, the Constitution has been put into and industrial strength shredder, and the concept of human rights has been all but obliterated? </p>
<p>May I point out that with the whole-hearted cooperation of the entire U.S. government, every branch, any positive relationship of the United States with the rest of the world has all but been destroyed, and it has become crystal clear why &#8220;they hate us&#8221; &#8211; everywhere? </p>
<p>May I remind you that the glorious Congress has willingly approved such atrocities as the Patriot Act? And that the glorious Congress, even under Democratic party dominance, has rolled over and peed on itself like an excessively submissive puppy dog on virtually every issue that matters?</p>
<p>The American political system is based on everything except what it SHOULD be based on. Where is the substance? Where are the things that really matter? It is all so bloody superficial. Even here in this serious and sophisticated company we have day after day after day of almost nothing but trying to promote one candidate by means of constant tiresome bashing of her opponent. We have people here seriously talking about voting for someone for president of this country simply because she is being unfairly attacked &#8211; what kind of bullshit is that? </p>
<p>And elsewhere we see this same candidate vilified not for her record on things that matter, and not for her stated policies, but why? Because she didn&#8217;t leave her cheating husband, or because she does not come across publicly as &#8220;warm&#8221; or &#8220;feminine enough&#8221; &#8211; as if that has anything to do with her ability to be president.</p>
<p>And then we have Obama, who orates nicely, but says little (hell, even Bush can sound OK when he is reading what others have written for him) while the candidates who have something of substance to say are virtually completely ignored. </p>
<p>Today I listened to a woman who was at one of the Iowa caucuses talking about the roll of the media in all this. She said that while the three &#8220;top&#8221; candidates talked a lot about what they wanted to do and what should happen, it was only the four others who had anything to say about how they would accomplish their goals, and it was those four who got zero attention. It&#8217;s easy to talk big about what you&#8217;re going to do, but it is meaningless without some idea of how you will do it.</p>
<p>There is no substance to this process. It is all about who can buy the best P.R. people, or who has the best line of bull, or who can most effectively &#8211; and more often than not utterly unfairly or irrelevantly &#8211; attack the opposition. </p>
<p>End of semi-coherent rant.</p>
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