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Greg Miller’s Rendition Amateur Hour

(bumped up from 6:50 p.m. ET)

What a pathetic piece of reporting!!! I refer to a Sunday article in the Los Angeles Times penned by Greg Miller, who asserts:

Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool
The role of the CIA’s controversial prisoner-transfer program may expand, intelligence experts say.

The CIA’s secret prisons are being shuttered. Harsh interrogation techniques are off-limits. And Guantanamo Bay will eventually go back to being a wind-swept naval base on the southeastern corner of Cuba.

But even while dismantling these programs, President Obama left intact an equally controversial counter-terrorism tool.

Current and former U.S. intelligence officials said that the rendition program might be poised to play an expanded role going forward because it was the main remaining mechanism — aside from Predator missile strikes — for taking suspected terrorists off the street. . . .

The European Parliament condemned renditions as “an illegal instrument used by the United States.” Prisoners swept up in the program have sued the CIA as well as a Boeing Co. subsidiary accused of working with the agency on dozens of rendition flights.

But the Obama administration appears to have determined that the rendition program was one component of the Bush administration’s war on terrorism that it could not afford to discard.

But then I took time to actually read the Executive Orders. President Obama did not, I REPEAT, did not leave George Bush’s rendition program intact.

Miller is helping perpetuate the notion that “rendition” is a specific practice that is well defined. But that is not the case. Let’s start with some basic definitions. First there is extradition:

The surrender by one state or country of a person charged with a crime in another state or country. Formally, the request of the state (usually through the Governor’s office) claiming the right to prosecute is made to the Governor of the state in which the accused is present. Occasionally a Governor will refuse to extradite (send the person back) if he/she is satisfied that the prosecution is not warranted, despite a constitutional mandate that “on demand of the Executive authority of the State from which [a fugitive from justice] fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having jurisdiction of the crime.” The defendant may “waive extradition” and allow himself/herself to be taken into custody and returned to the state where charges are pending.

So what happens when you catch a bad guy, like Ramzi Yousef (mastermind of the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center towers), and you do not have in place a legal agreement for taking the person into custody and removing him from the foreign country? In the case of Ramsi he was put on an FBI plane and flown to the United States and put on trial. That is one type of rendition.

There is a lot of erroneous information floating around about “renditions.” Former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer is a major source for much of the confusion because he claims that he started the “renditions” program in 1995. Horseshit!

The CIA’s controversial “rendition” program to have terror suspects captured and questioned on foreign soil was launched under US president Bill Clinton, a former US counterterrorism agent told a German newspaper. Michael Scheuer, a 22-year veteran of the CIA who resigned from the agency in 2004, told Thursday’s issue of the newsweekly Die Zeit that the US administration had been looking in the mid-1990s for a way to combat the terrorist threat and circumvent the cumbersome US legal system.
“President Clinton, his national security advisor Sandy Berger and his terrorism advisor Richard Clark ordered the CIA in the autumn of 1995 to destroy Al-Qaeda,” Scheuer said, in comments published in German.

“We asked the president what we should do with the people we capture. Clinton said ‘That’s up to you’.”

Scheuer, who headed the CIA unit that tracked Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden from 1996 to 1999, said that he developed and led the “renditions” program, which he said included moving prisoners without due legal process to countries without strict human rights protections.

“In Cairo, people are not treated like they are in Milwaukee. The Clinton administration asked us if we believed that the prisoners were being treated in accordance with local law. And we answered, yes, we’re fairly sure.”

Poor Michael (who fortunately was removed from his job in the CIA’s Counter Terrorism Center) never heard of Fawaz Younis. Younis was the first terrorist rendered and it happened in 1987 while Ronald Reagan was President. According to the FBI:

It was a bright, clear September day in the international waters of the eastern Mediterranean. A motorboat carrying a suspected terrorist — who was distinctly hung over from too much partying the night before — approached an 80-foot sailing yacht. From the yacht’s deck, two women in shorts and halter tops beckoned him to come aboard. He eyed them appreciatively, thinking ahead to his imminent meeting with Joseph, an international drug dealer, who was promising him an opportunity to begin a lucrative new career.

Was he ever about to be surprised.

The women and Joseph were undercover FBI agents. Once on deck, he was arrested and taken aboard a U.S. Navy munitions ship, the USS Butte, where he was read his rights and interrogated. As the Butte steamed toward a rendezvous with the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, the suspect confessed to his involvement in several acts of terrorism. From the Saratoga, he was flown for a record-breaking thirteen hours in a Navy Viking S-3 jet to be arraigned in Washington, D.C., and ultimately was tried, convicted, and sentenced in a U.S. court. Case closed.

What’s the significance of this remarkable operation? This was the first international terrorist to be apprehended overseas and brought back to the United States to stand trial.

When did it happen? Seventeen years ago this week, on September 13, 1987.

Who was the terrorist? Fawaz Younis, one of the individuals implicated in the 1985 hijacking of a Royal Jordanian airliner. After taking the passengers hostage – including two Americans – and making several demands that were not met, the hijackers ordered the airplane’s crew to land first in Cyprus, then Sicily, and finally Beirut. There they released the hostages, held a press conference, blew up the plane on the tarmac, and fled.

What Younis did not know was that his actions triggered a law passed by Congress just the year before — the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 — that gave the FBI jurisdiction over terrorist acts in which Americans were taken hostage – no matter where the acts occurred. That authority was expanded in 1986 with the passage of the Omnibus Diplomatic Security and Antiterrorism Act.

Thus “Operation Goldenrod”– the first time those new authorities were used, sending a message to terrorists that we would pursue them no matter where they tried to hide.

What was the outcome? Younis was convicted of conspiracy, aircraft piracy, and hostage-taking. In October 1989, he was sentenced to 30 years in prison.

The practice of “Extraordinary Rendition” commenced in earnest under the Bush Administration in the wake of 9-11 and was specifically designed to allow suspected terrorists to be tortured by other governments–we could get the information without getting our hands dirty.

So let’s look specifically at what President Obama ordered last week:

Sec. 3. Standards and Practices for Interrogation of Individuals in the Custody or Control of the United States in Armed Conflicts.

(a) Common Article 3 Standards as a Minimum Baseline. Consistent with the requirements of the Federal torture statute, 18 U.S.C. 2340 2340A, section 1003 of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, 42 U.S.C. 2000dd, the Convention Against Torture, Common Article 3, and other laws regulating the treatment and interrogation of individuals detained in any armed conflict, such persons shall in all circumstances be treated humanely and shall not be subjected to violence to life and person (including murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment, and torture), nor to outrages upon personal dignity (including humiliating and degrading treatment), whenever such individuals are in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States.

(b) Interrogation Techniques and Interrogation-Related Treatment. Effective immediately, an individual in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government, or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States, in any armed conflict, shall not be subjected to any interrogation technique or approach, or any treatment related to interrogation, that is not authorized by and listed in Army Field Manual 2 22.3 (Manual). Interrogation techniques, approaches, and treatments described in the Manual shall be implemented strictly in accord with the principles, processes, conditions, and limitations the Manual prescribes. Where processes required by the Manual, such as a requirement of approval by specified Department of Defense officials, are inapposite to a department or an agency other than the Department of Defense, such a department or agency shall use processes that are substantially equivalent to the processes the Manual prescribes for the Department of Defense. Nothing in this section shall preclude the Federal Bureau of Investigation, or other Federal law enforcement agencies, from continuing to use authorized, non-coercive techniques of interrogation that are designed to elicit voluntary statements and do not involve the use of force, threats, or promises.

Anybody see the section authorizing CIA to turn suspects over to a third country for torture? Nope, it ain’t there.

What about Section 4?

Sec. 4. Prohibition of Certain Detention Facilities, and Red Cross Access to Detained Individuals.

(a) CIA Detention. The CIA shall close as expeditiously as possible any detention facilities that it currently operates and shall not operate any such detention facility in the future.

(b) International Committee of the Red Cross Access to Detained Individuals. All departments and agencies of the Federal Government shall provide the International Committee of the Red Cross with notification of, and timely access to, any individual detained in any armed conflict in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States Government, consistent with Department of Defense regulations and policies.

So a simple question to Greg Miller–what the hell are you talking about?

The orders signed by Obama do not preclude a terrorist suspect being rendered for judicial proceedings. That was never a problem not an objectionable matter. What President Obama is clearly signaling is an end to the practice of taking terrorist suspects and putting them in the hands of foreign governments that will torture for us. And there is nothing in the Executive Orders signed by Obama that contradicts that. But you would not know that if you read Miller’s piece.

  • George

    Thanks Larry. Excellent clarity on an issue prone to obfuscation.

  • I’m a Linda too

    I don’t know. Considering the language we see here is very specific. It says any individual in the US Gov’t custody…. “Standards and Practices for Interrogation of Individuals in the Custody or Control of the United States in Armed Conflicts.”

    and adds ” Nothing in this section shall preclude the Federal Bureau of Investigation, or other Federal law enforcement agencies, from continuing to use authorized, non-coercive techniques of interrogation that are designed to elicit voluntary statements and do not involve the use of force, threats, or promises.”

    They specifically mention in “armed conflict” and which bodies to adhere to what.

    They surely do not say they will never use an ally or other country to assist in interrogations….or a whole host of possible other scenarios.

  • boonies

    Larry you seem to leave unsaid , what to do with these kind of people…did I miss something?
    Im a supporter here but I would like to read what you think we might need to do to the Somali pirates (catch and release is for fish, not vermin)and Al Qaedas of the world…Thank you Larry!

  • ChooChooMagoo

    Thanks for clarify this issue (which many of us feel strongly about) and setting the record straight. Many in the media seem to be directly saying or strongly implying the same things as Miller.

  • Andy

    LJ: thanks so much for such an informative, timely and so much needed post. Much appreciated!

    There is one item left me wondering a bit in the order and that the phrase:
    “individuals detained in any armed conflict”. Does this encompass, at least as far as you understand all circumstances in which such individual could be apprehended (say for example the Younis case) ?

    Another one I read and have no idea what it means is something about President Obama’s Executive Order calling for a “Special Interagency Task Force on Interrogation and Transfer Policies”

    What is this? (note that below it is also made clear that Obama is NOT continuing Bush’s “extraordinary renditions”)

    to study and evaluate the practices of transferring individuals to other nations in order to ensure that such practices comply with the domestic laws, international obligations, and policies of the United States and do not result in the transfer of individuals to other nations to face torture or otherwise for the purpose, or with the effect, of undermining or circumventing the commitments or obligations of the United States to ensure the humane treatment of individuals in its custody or control.

    and to

    study and evaluate whether the interrogation practices and techniques in Army Field Manual 2 22.3, when employed by departments or agencies outside the military, provide an appropriate means of acquiring the intelligence necessary to protect the Nation, and, if warranted, to recommend any additional or different guidance for other departments or agencies.

    I think the commission is supposed to report back in 6 months??

    Thanks again!

  • Ferd Berfle

    They surely do not say they will never use an ally or other country to assist in interrogations….or a whole host of possible other scenarios.

    And that is where the rubber meets the road. If something is NOT specifically addressed, it becomes a gray area subject to all manner of interpretation or requiring a quite lengthy search through other executive orders, regulations, or laws to find the controlling legal authority. Were I a cynic, I would say that this was done intentionally as a means of denying culpability.

  • JozefAL

    Larry, just to point out another bit of sloppy “reporting” (I know the piece was “according to the FBI”, but that falls under the venue of “reporting”):

    Who was the terrorist? Fawaz Younis, one of the individuals implicated in the 1985 hijacking of a Royal Jordanian airliner. After taking the passengers hostage – including two Americans – and making several demands that were not met, the hijackers ordered the airplane’s crew to land first in Cyprus, then Sicily, and finally Beirut. There they released the hostages, held a press conference, blew up the plane on the tarmac, and fled.

    What Younis did not know was that his actions triggered a law passed by Congress just the year before — the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 — that gave the FBI jurisdiction over terrorist acts in which Americans were taken hostage – no matter where the acts occurred. That authority was expanded in 1986 with the passage of the Omnibus Diplomatic Security and Antiterrorism Act.

    I’m sorry, but there is absolutely NO WAY that actions happening AFTER THE FACT can “trigger” anything. Whatever Congress did in 1984 had NOTHING to do with Younis’ actions in 1985 (unless several someones in Congress had some massive precognitive skills and saw the future, and that idea has some pretty scary repercussions when you think about it).

    Sure, sure, the FBI isn’t really well-known for its skill in “reporting the news” but that item/article represents some pretty shoddy writing, whoever was responsible for writing it. Younis was a by-product of the Congressional action but there is no way that he triggered it.

  • I’m a Linda too

    Exactly.

  • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

    Fred,
    Wrong. The sections quoted above very clearly spell out that the laws, including the Convention Against Torture, are the controlling legal authority. No mistreatment of prisoners, by any agency, is approved or supported.

  • Peggy Sue

    Larry, thanks for the extended article and explanation. I read the Los Angeles piece and the later pickup over at Hot Air. And frankly, it made my stomach turn. I thought, oh no, not another reversal and backtrack. In fact, I mentioned the LA piece yesterday in a post.

    Glad to hear it’s not what I thought and that the “explanation” given here is from a credible source. Obviously, there’s a lot of tweaking going on to score political/debating points.

    I’m just glad the Bush/Cheney rendition program is “not” being extended or expanded [as was implied from the original news article].

    Thanks for that!

  • Ferd Berfle

    Thanks for the info.

  • Tricia Spiegel

    Thank you for this valuable and insightful information. Thanks God for you and NQ!

  • truthtelling007

    If I understand Larry at this point, we already have laws about what to do, because we’ve already “done” this. The Younis case is very interesting. They simply apprehended him, brought him back for adjudication.

    The problem it seems to me has been all the obfuscation by the Bush lobby, whether official or unofficial. By muddying the waters of the conversation and casting doubt, most now have a murky few of what is going on legally. I read time and time again that there “is some debate on the legalities of”…and insert action, whether it be waterboarding, extraordinary rendition, wiretapping, etc.

    This absurd. In following that logic I could go rob a bank and get my defense lawyer to tell the judge and jury that “there is some debate about whether it is illegal.” Or as a college buddy tried to plead when he got busted smoking pot in a park, “this shouldn’t even be illegal”…the judge disagreed and he has a charge on his record and had to pay a fine.

    The last 8 years have seen an extraordinary about of effort put into making law murky. “There is still debate” about Global Warming. Hogwash. “There is debate whether water boarding is torture” horseshit, we’ve prosecuted for this crime already. “There is debate whether the wire tapping was legal” same as above, wrong.

    We can debate whether the tree outside my house is a tree or a large bush, and yet it doesn’t change shape, size, or DNA structure. Sometimes we need to step back and ask…”what is the value of these supposed ‘debates’?”

    Remember that Larry appeared in the movie, Outfoxed by Brave New Films. The main gist of the movie was the obscuring of news with “some people say”…even though they couldn’t ever point to who was “saying” this stuff. It was a way of injecting a view into the news that only existed around their damn water coolers, or their editorial rooms. “Some people say” isn’t solid journalism. Solid journalism is, “General Joe Schmoe said, ‘bla blah blah’.” not, “a source near senior officials said,’blah blah blah.”

    So, what to do? follow the existing laws. They’ve worked when used. We don’t need to reinvent the world the wheel or or many of these laws. The only thing I think we need to reform is how we share intelligence. We might want to revisit whether the existing laws are sufficient, but we cannot keep acting like there aren’t already laws and precedent.

    Thanks for the great article Larry. Michael Scheuer seems to be a flake. I didn’t know he was removed from his job. His official bio claims he retired.

  • Belle Gardens

    Interrogation Techniques and Interrogation-Related Treatment. Effective immediately, an individual in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government, or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States, in any armed conflict, shall not be subjected to any interrogation technique or approach, or any treatment related to interrogation, that is not authorized by and listed in Army Field Manual 2 22.3 (Manual). Interrogation techniques, approaches, and treatments described in the Manual shall be implemented strictly in accord with the principles, processes, conditions, and limitations the Manual prescribes. Where processes required by the Manual, such as a requirement of approval by specified Department of Defense officials, are in

    I have to disagree with Larry here, too, I was always made uncomfortable by the army field manual, and this, to me, is just another way to skirt the issue.

    I say this was CYA action on Obama’s part, and would prefer further clarification before yelling gotcha!

    In addition, I don’t trust Obama, or Brennan.

    Period.

  • truthtelling007

    “I was always made uncomfortable by the army field manual,”

    What specifically in the army field manual are you “uncomfortable with”?

  • Belle Gardens

    From the WAPO:

    The orders did not prohibit renditions, in which the CIA has secretly transferred prisoners captured in one country to another without trial. Although they mandated that the CIA adhere to interrogation guidelines used by the military, officials said that a separate ‘protocol’ may still be established to govern intelligence agency interrogation practices.

    “Those issues and others are to be reviewed by a Cabinet-level task force that will study how to deal with the most vexing legacies of the Bush administration’s detention program, Obama said.”

    And Greg Miller and Julian E. Barnes write in the Los Angeles Times that Obama “appeared to leave an opening for the CIA” to once again go beyond the 19 approved techniques listed in the Army field manual. “The order calls for the creation of a special task force, headed by the U.S. attorney general, to study whether the Army field manual is adequate and to recommend ‘additional or different guidance for other departments or agencies.’

    “Administration officials emphasized that there was no intent to create a loophole.

    “‘This is not a secret annex that allows us to bring the enhanced interrogation techniques back,’ said a senior Obama administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity when discussing legal strategies. ‘It’s not.’

    “But the language left the impression that the Obama team could later decide to adopt separate standards for the military and the CIA, and that any additional methods approved for the agency would remain classified.

    “Retired Navy Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the president’s nominee to serve as the next director of national intelligence, testified Thursday that the government would withhold specifics from any new interrogation document for fear that ‘we not turn our manual into a training manual for our adversaries.’”

    It sounds to me like the Obama White House needs to state even more categorically that it will not under any circumstances approve interrogation techniques that violate the Geneva Conventions — and it needs to do so on the record. A background briefing won’t cut it — even when a public schedule and multiple references by Press Secretary Robert Gibbs to “Greg” in his press briefing makes it clear that the briefers were White House Counsel Greg Craig and Deputy White House Counsel Mary DeRosa.

    Unless I misread…

  • Belle Gardens

    Wasn’t there a part left classified, rewritten during the torture controversy under Cheney? ( I will research, a bit busy, now…)

    It’s been my impression when they leave it classifed, it means they’re hiding something, sometimes having nothing to do with national security. That, and 3.00 will get you a cup of coffee, I know, but sometimes you just have to go with your instincts, and I do, here, given SOME military, and ALL Cheney history.

    In addition, Obama’s refusal to come out and repudiate rendition, cleanly, is telling, particularly as reported by Dan Froomkin, of the WAPO, whom I’ve quoted below, in another post.

    Sometimes, you just have to follow your instincts, and given the others who apparently feel Obama left the door to renditions open via his language, I agree.

    BTW, it’s this same instinct, or pattern, that makes me think the “Whitey tape” is most likely real — Larry has a certain history, really not given to out and out lying, or dirty tricks.

    Whereas the military, or the CIA under Cheney, well…

  • Belle Gardens

    http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/01/31-3

    In the comments section, someone made the point rendition is still allowable, Obama using spin and “weasel language,” to pretty it up, as lawyers will do.

    I agree.

  • Belle Gardens

    “Obviously you need to preserve some tools, you still have to go after the bad guys,” said an Obama administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity when discussing legal reasoning behind the decision. “The legal advisers working on this looked at rendition. It is controversial in some circles and kicked up a big storm in Europe. But if done within certain parameters, it is an acceptable practice.”

    This, from the Chicago Tribune.

    What do you think of this quote?

  • Andy

    Yes, I refered as well to this “commission” or “task force” to “study the manual” and get back to Obama in 6 months in an earlier comment (here, below). Not clear what this will mean….

  • truthtelling007

    “It’s been my impression when they leave it classified, it means they’re hiding something”

    Well hidden doesn’t automatically mean nefarious, right? I mean, I know we’re talking Cheney, and my opinion on him has been made clear, I run CheneyWatch.org for a reason.

    But hidden doesn’t automatically mean nefarious. And the WaPo article seems to do the same thing as the Greg Miller article. It asks for some solid statement of prohibition.

    “CIA Detention. The CIA shall close as expeditiously as possible any detention facilities that it currently operates and shall not operate any such detention facility in the future.”

    Isn’t that explicit above? “shall not operate” seems prohibitive language. Further the second statement above:
    “All departments and agencies of the Federal Government shall provide the International Committee of the Red Cross with notification of, and timely access to, any individual detained”

    This seems to set a standard not upheld during the Bush years with “Black sites”.

    SO help me here…I’m not sure what explicit statement is needed.

    My comment is not intended to give Obama a card he doesn’t have yet, but to ask what is missing that you expect.

    TT007

  • so saddened

    no mistreatment by any agency – no “agency” is involved if send to syria or whatever, either in the bureaucratic sense or the legal sense of the word. huge loophole.

    you say the quoted language doesn’t authorize rendition for torture. it also doesn’t prohibit it. understand your wish to think the best of the jerk, but your legal analysis is off.

    the one left himself a giant loophole and knows exactly what he’s up to.

  • truthtelling007

    I don’t see how the opinion of a comment on a blog is equivalent to reading the Executive Order language that LJ just posted.

    Sorry, not trying to be dense, but can you show me the “weasel language”?

    Seriously.
    Because the language above is clear. There is a prohibition of black sites and the reinstatement of notification of detainees to Red Cross and such agencies.

    Help me out here.

  • TeakwoodKite

    All along the watchtower….

    It is always good to surface from the daily domestic subtrafuge…(you know the one with the big sucking sound) ?… to know that NQ is the place keepin it real.

    Thanks LJ.

  • TeakwoodKite

    @SusanUnPc…”Welcome to Wherever You Are”…LOL…

  • elise

    If the government didn’t have this bad habit of lying to it’s citizens, the citizens would be more trustful. Questioning a carefully worded executive order seems safer in the long run. Are countries with which we have no extradition treaty allowed to enter the US, kidnap a person and take them back for trial? I just keep thinking our government has no problem violating the sovereignty of other countries while protecting our own sovereignty. For example, using drones to drop bombs on Pakistan which has been done in the two weeks since Obama became president and presumably with his approval. The abduction of an American man in Pakistan within the past twenty four hours could be the result of anger over this violation and will this man be treated in the same manner as prisioners in Gitmo?

  • Belle Gardens

    I think the language is self evident, don’t you?

    In addition:

    “‘This is not a secret annex that allows us to bring the enhanced interrogation techniques back,’ said a senior Obama administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity when discussing legal strategies. ‘It’s not.’

    But the language left the impression that the Obama team could later decide to adopt separate standards for the military and the CIA, and that any additional methods approved for the agency would remain classified.

    Perhaps you see it differently, having a different set of expectations.

    So, this isn’t really a matter of subtley discreditng “an opinion on a blog,” it’s seems to be more of a standard agreement among those who understand how legal language can be parsed to exploit loopholes, nuance indicating the truth.

    At the very least, the WAPO and the LA TImes are reporting this as accurate, contrary to Larry’s analysis.

    We will have to agree to disagree, here, btw, to each his own, but I disagree with you, and with Larry.

    I think he’s allowing renditions.

  • Belle Gardens

    It is good to be aware of “gray” areas. But at the same time, I think it is important to recognize that just because a policy or law may have a flaw doesn’t automatically equate to a nefarious reason for there to be such a gap in the language.

    And I might agree with you if we were speaking of Hillary Clinton.

    Maybe.

    But we’re speaking of Obama, a President who has retained John Brennan, a person who advocated for the worst of Cheney’s torture polciies and sick think, IMO, treason, really.

    I am not pragmatic about the act of treason.

    And I think my conclusion is supported by not only the quote from Obama’s own people in regard to rendition i.e., “but if done within certan parameters it is sometimes a useful option,”but also by the loopholes left by the nuanced, non-specific language, so necessary to good law.

    Some people get the benefit of the doubt.

    Obama doesn’t, and neither do those in the Pentagon who failed to advocate against Cheney.

  • Belle Gardens

    I fully expect Obama to state extraordinary renditions, or the kidnapping of civilians and others to foreign countires for the specific purpose of interrogation utilizing methods illegal under American law (i.e., torture) are prohibited, and all who engage will be held criminally liable.

    Because we presume innocence until proven guilty, the foudnation of our legal process, the very foundation of America.

    The orders DID NOT expresly prohibit renditions, bottom line, and the loophole can be exploited, right?

    Which, I think, was the intent.

    Do you kind of see it?

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