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“An $800 Billion Mistake”…

By Larry Doyle on February 8, 2009 at 8:10 AM in American Consumers, Austan Goolsbee, Backfire, Barack Obama, Commerce, Congress (House & Senate), Current Affairs, Democratic Party, Depression, Economic Stimulus, Economy, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Obama, Obama Administration, President Barack Obama, Rahm Emanuel, Republicans, Tax stimulus package, Unemployment, Washington Post, stimulus tax package

Editor’s Note: Don’t miss Larry Doyle’s radio show tonight at 8 p.m. ET, “No Quarter’s Dollars and Sense with LD.”

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The American populace knows that the primary architects in the formulation of the Stimulus Plan working its way through Congress are Rahm Emanuel, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid. This contingent, along with President Obama, have not been bashful in stating they view the November election results as effectively a mandate to change policies emanating from Washington.

Against that backdrop, the initially proposed Stimulus Plan was so loaded with pork that the Republicans and the American population at large slammed it as more a promotion of the

Martin Feldstein

Democratic agenda than a true stimulus plan.

I will give President Obama credit for formulating a Panel to Advise Obama on Economy.

This panel will be known as the White House Economic Recovery Advisory Board. The Board will be headed by former Fed chair Paul Volcker. He will be joined by Jeff Immelt of GE, James Owens of Caterpillar, William Donaldson, former SEC chair, Roger Ferguson Jr. of TIAA-CREF, Richard Trumka of AFL-CIO, Anna Burger of SEIU, and Martin Feldstein, renowned Harvard economist. The group will be guided by Austan Goolsbee, an economic adviser to the White House.

Do you think President Obama and his economic team would listen to Mr. Feldstein or is that a “mere courtesy” having him on the board? Let’s review what Mr. Feldstein said about the Stimulus Plan just last week.

Regarding the proposed Stimulus Plan, Martin Feldstein offered that it is far better to go back to work and do it right versus merely doing it fast:

An $800 Billion Mistake

By Martin Feldstein
The Washington Post
Thursday, January 29, 2009

As a conservative economist, I might be expected to oppose a stimulus plan. In fact, on
this page in October, I declared my support for a stimulus. But the fiscal package now
before Congress needs to be thoroughly revised. In its current form, it does too little to
raise national spending and employment. It would be better for the Senate to delay
legislation for a month, or even two, if that’s what it takes to produce a much better bill.
We cannot afford an $800 billion mistake.

Start with the tax side. The plan is to give a tax cut of $500 a year for two years to each
employed person. That’s not a good way to increase consumer spending. Experience
shows that the money from such temporary, lump-sum tax cuts is largely saved or used
to pay down debt. Only about 15 percent of last year’s tax rebates led to additional
spending.

The proposed business tax cuts are also likely to do little to increase business investment
and employment. The extended loss “carrybacks” are primarily lump-sum payments to
selected companies. The bonus depreciation plan would do little to raise capital spending
in the current environment of weak demand because the tax benefits in the early years
would be recaptured later.

Instead, the tax changes should focus on providing incentives to households and
businesses to increase current spending. Why not a temporary refundable tax credit to
households that purchase cars or other major consumer durables, analogous to the
investment tax credit for businesses? Or a temporary tax credit for home improvements?
In that way, the same total tax reduction could produce much more spending and
employment.

Postponing the scheduled increase in the tax on dividends and capital gains would raise
share prices, leading to increased consumer spending and, by lowering the cost of capital,
more business investment.

On the spending side, the stimulus package is full of well-intended items that,
unfortunately, are not likely to do much for employment. Computerizing the medical
records of every American over the next five years is desirable, but it is not a cost-
effective way to create jobs. Has anyone gone through the (long) list of proposed
appropriations and asked how many jobs each would create per dollar of increased
national debt?

The largest proposed outlays amount to just writing unrestricted checks to state
governments. Nearly $100 billion would result from increasing the “Medicaid matching
rate,” a technique for reducing states’ Medicaid costs to free up state money for spending
on anything governors and state legislators want. An additional $80 billion would be given
out for “state fiscal relief.” Will these vast sums actually lead to additional spending, or will
they merely finance state transfer payments or relieve state governments of the need for
temporary tax hikes or bond issues?

The plan to finance health insurance premiums for the unemployed would actually
increase unemployment by giving employers an incentive to lay off workers rather than
pay health premiums during a time of weak demand. And this supposedly two-year
program would create a precedent that could be hard to reverse.

A large fraction of the stimulus proposal is devoted to infrastructure projects that will
spend out very slowly, not with the speed needed to help the economy in 2009 and 2010.
The Congressional Budget Office estimates that less than one-fifth of the $50 billion of
proposed spending on energy and water would occur by the end of 2010.

If rapid spending on things that need to be done is a criterion of choice, the plan should
include higher defense outlays, including replacing and repairing supplies and equipment,
needed after five years of fighting. The military can increase its level of procurement very
rapidly. Yet the proposed spending plan includes less than $5 billion for defense, only
about one-half of 1 percent of the total package.

Infrastructure spending on domestic military bases can also proceed more rapidly than
infrastructure spending in the civilian economy. And military procurement overwhelmingly
involves American-made products. Since much of this military spending will have to be
done eventually, it makes sense to do it now, when there is substantial excess capacity in
the manufacturing sector. In addition, a temporary increase in military recruiting and
training would reduce unemployment directly, create a more skilled civilian workforce and
expand the military reserves.

All new spending and tax changes should have explicit time limits that prevent ever-
increasing additions to the national debt. Similarly, spending programs should not create
political dynamics that will make them hard to end.

The problem with the current stimulus plan is not that it is too big but that it delivers too
little extra employment and income for such a large fiscal deficit. It is worth taking the
time to get it right.

The writer, an economics professor at Harvard University, is president emeritus of the
National Bureau of Economic Research.

Barack, how about you and Martin go for a little walk. Take your time!!

lark

All that is needed to stimulate the economy is for the government to subsidize the installation of fire-sprinkling systems for anyone that applies for a system and has an engineering degree to substantiate that the purpose of the system is to insure that his research doesn’t spread into his neighbor’s property. Nothing else. Everything else to remain as is. No changes.

Susan

And yet the Pentagon leaked that Obama plans to CUT military spending by at least 5%!!! Maybe it’s time for Reid, Pelosi and Emmanuel to sit down and let knowledgeable economists advise the all too inexperienced Obama! These three goons obviously put politics, not country, first, and we cannot afford to indulge them at this critical juncture. We, not they, are the ones who will be standing in bread lines. Thank you, LD, for your insight and expertise.

retire05

Military spending is not important to The One.

But it seems that homeless shelters for Ohio prostitutes is. As is $1,410,000,000.00 for a “multi-generational” day care center in a Mississippi town of 1,300. Or $1,000,000,000. for sidewalks in a town of 644. Try $800,000 for a frisbee “golf” course in Austin, $325,000,000.00 for a convention hotel in Dallas, a total of $134,225,000.00 for Winnsboro, Texas, population 3,909. You could cut each resident (man, woman and child) of Winnsboro a check for $34,000.00 and save money. Terry, Ms. is requesting $9.1 million; population 644. $99,600.00 for door bells in Laurel, MS.

Where did this list come from? When Nazi Pelosi wanted her Christmas wish list, she requested the expenditures from the Conference of Mayors that took place in mid-January. But then, when you have Christmas, you have to have a turkey, right?

Kid yourself not; we now have a president that has lost control and Nazi Pelosi and Real Estate Harry Reid is running the show.

Mary

Word is, the only “direction” Congress got from Obama was the total amount in the range of $800 billion (he told Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe the same number).

He left the drafting of how to spend that to Pelosi and Reid.

Pelosi told her members to give the Dem leadership their “lists” of what they wanted……until it reached the total number Obama had given them.

Pelosi said, “I don’t care what’s in it. I just want a unanimous YES vote.”

It wasn’t until the Repubs had been completely excluded (Blue Dogs too) and actually READ the bill, making it public, that Obama realized it wasn’t a good bill, and began talking to Snowe and Collins about what they wanted cut from the total.

Can you believe that crap?

ACPD

Any damn fool can spend money! BO’s comments that you have to spend money to stimulate the economy are as simplistic and shallow as anything Bush ever said. I agree that it is worth spending some time on fashioning a stimulus package that actually will benefit the economy rather than just throwing money at our problems.

Congress needs some vision. Most of what it is proposing is short-term spending with no long term benefits. Also, most of the jobs that would be generated are work that is traditionally performed by men. How about money spent on training nurses, health care professionals, teachers and day care workers? How about providing stipends for the training of people who go into these fields and other technical training courses? How about providing money for the start up of new companies that will produce green products and green technology or that will build green homes and buildings? How about some serious thought? The Dems are in a party mood; but they need to come down from their high and think about the entire country and not just themselves and their special interests….

obamastolemyboyfriend

For years as a democrat I have argued with Conservatives that spending is not all bad. Wehn you put money into building new roads, etc., you need construction workers to build them and therefore create jobs. Not all spending is for good though and these Democrats are pissing me off big time! If you spend money to fix your house when say, the roof is leaking or the furnace went out that is one thing. When you spend money to collect art or something, that does nothing to make your life better. We have a Government who right now wants to spend money just to spend it and we cannot afford to do that. This stimulus bill should be spending only money that creates jobs, keeps the unemployment checks coming and improves our lives as Americans, such as new school, medical facilities, and manufacturing of energy products that get us off of the foreign oil dependence. Things that bring real change!

What the hell is wrong with these people????????
What was in that damn kool aid???????

gracie

Thank you, LD and Professor Feldstein for these clear and sensible ideas.
http://deleted Aaron

Obama is all smoke and mirrors. he convinces people that he is listening to them but never actually heeds their advice. He is the king of referent power, standing next to Volker and Feldstein only to ignore everything they say because “he won.” At least the Republicans have figured this out quickly and are attempting to thwart him or at the very least make him own this pork laden bill.
blogforce one

I agree 100 percent! The current plan as it now stands is a self serving hand out to Governors in blue states which are mired in deficit spending and mismanagement of tax revenues. It is a temporary releif package for them in order to delay painful state budget cuts that will anger their own constituencies until after the 2010 elections. It is the equivalent of pouring money into a restaurant with no customers in order to delay the closing. This plan will only devalue the Dollar in the longer term without increasing consumer spending in the short term. It is a govt beaurocrats dream and a taxpayers nightmare!
lark

Don’t be fools. The only thing that stimulate an economy are brains with a drop of courage and a mama and a papa backing them up.
bert

Great post, Larry. I do not have much economic background. But what Mr. Feldstein says makes a lot of sense.

First of all, I keep asking myself, why all the rush again? That is exactly what happened last October. Congress rushed to pass a bailout bill and now we see there were a lot of errors in how that bill was structured. Those who asked for more time were railroaded to pass the bailout immediately.

I see nothing wrong with taking a bit more time. Yet Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are all running around crying, “The sky is faling. The sky is falling.” “We won.” “I am dictator.” “Do what I want.” “NOW.” “STAT.”

Not only does Mr. Feldstein know his economics, he understands how important it is to get this bill right and that we are not in a race here. We are in a fight for the survuval of our nation.

To Obama and company I say, Go slow. Get it right.
Texas Playwright

Stop, Look and Listen, Congress.

OldGrumpyGuy

Is there any point in appealing to a Congress led by people like Pelosi and Barney Frank?

KmX

I thought Americans had freedom of association. Why did President Obama repeal the executive Executive Order 13202, that prohibited federal agencies and recipients of federal funding from requiring contractors to sign union-only project labor agreements (PLAs) as a condition of performing work on federal and federally funded construction projects.

This order restricts bidding on federally funded construction projects to union-controlled businesses. That means over 84% of non union contructiuon companies cannot bid for governmenbt work. President Obama is making a huge mistakes and this order will affect hundreds of workers in the contruction field.

Then again, maybe most of the non union construction companies are “white Owned” this fullfilling Robert Riech wish of making sure white construction workers do not benefit fromt eh stimulus.
mountainaires

Well….I’m not in complete sync with Feldstein’s proposals either; but I do agree completely on the aid to states business. If we’re going to do a national stimulus, it ought to be accountable to the president’s economic team, seems to me.

With apologies to Feldstein, I have a suggestion:

If we’re going to have a stimulus, why don’t they just go ahead and do one thing with the money: Nationalize health care!

Just that one act would have a big impact on this economy. That would free up money in everyone’s pockets, take care of the medicaid/aid to the states, and free up governor’s pockets as well. Businesses would get a huge payback from it. It would stimulate the auto makers, too, since it cuts their operating and pension costs. Ha!

It’s so simple isn’t it? [well, of course, only in a simple mind like mine, but there ya go!]

KmX

Hawaii had similar stae run health care insurance to Massachussttes. But late last year Hawaii had to abandon that type of insurance because people who could afford to pay, were scrapping their private health insurance and signing up for the government one. Hence, it became too expensive for the Hawaii officials to continue this subsidized form of health care.

Why would anyone pay for healthcare, if the government giving it out for nothing?

I agree health insurance is too expensive and we have to look at ways to make it cheaper. But government run health care is not the way to go. There must be someway we can make it as compettitive and affordable as auto insurance.

lark

There must be someway we can make it as compettitive and affordable as auto insurance.

Of course there are several ways of doing that and even better. But the AMA wouldn’t like it, would they?
obamastolemyboyfriend

That is exactly what happens when it is not universal health care, but universal health insurance and why if Obama ever goes through with his health care plan it will drain the Government and become horribly expensive for the premiums. A universal Health care plan has to cover every single American and be a single payer system if it has a chance to work and keep the costs down, but what happened in Hawaii is exactly what will happen if Obama does his everyone must have health insurance plan or doesn’t cover all Americans. If mandated to have health insurance and yours costs twice that of the Government plan, why would you keep yours? Many of the high cost of health care is because of uninsured or under insured people, if you still have that, the costs still rise.

We could do universal health care right now, if the Government really gave a damn. They don’t! They will never battle the Insurance companies to get it done. They get too many pay offs from them. Americans need to be eductated first on the difference between Universal Health Care and Universal health insurance-there is a big, big difference! Insurance is just insurance, but health care makes you well, and or keeps you well.

lark

That would free up money in everyone’s pockets

Why do you say something like that? The expansion of SCHIPS is supposedly charged to 60 cents per pack tax on cigarettes. National health care as you are thinking of it means probably an 18 percent payroll tax on gross wages. But I agree it would be better than employer subsidized groups. At least it would do one thing before going bankrupt. It would eliminate groups of likely members.

mountainaires

Sigh~As I said, it’s an idea [nationalize health care] coming from a non-economic, so don’t mistake me for an economist. I don’t even try to play one on No Quarter!

But, I’ll say this–I don’t give a rat’s ass about keeping Insurance companies in business. I despise, loathe, abhor insurance companies, and wish a pox on all their houses.

If it costs this country trillions to kill insurance companies, I say: Let us Begin Today.

lark

But insurance companies are not needed if you can simply afford to pay cash for your health care costs. Cash would be accepted when health care providers stop dealing with groups and start dealing with the population as a whole. The same goes for home mortgages, etc. The thousands of dollars charged for treatment at health care institutions are a fallacy. But the system works for them and we simply pay.
obamastolemyboyfriend

Mountainaires, you might be interestedin what MN is doing (I live there and am in support of this). Check out MUHCC.org. This differs from Massachussetts and Hawaii in that it is Health Care and not health insurance. Mandating that people have health insurance only means that they have insurance premiums, copays and deductibles. It does not mean that you have health care! People with high deductibles to afford premiums often do not go to the doctor because they cannot afford the deductibles. MN’s plan will be single payer, low overhead. The overhead is estimated to be about 3-4%, whereas most insurance companies’ overhead is about 40%. That is why the costs are so high. Yes, if this goes through, the insurance companies go away so some argue, what about jobs? Well, the new Government single pay system will replace those jobs. Watch what MN does because they hope to get it right and be a model for the national level. The bill has huge support from both parties!

Say no to Universal Health insurance and ues to universal health care.

And before anyone starts yelling, “Socialism”, we have socialized other necessities like police and fire. Healthcare should be no different, IMO.

http://cyndesdaybook.blogspot.com/ Cynde Hammond

Hi, “obamastolemyboyfriend.”

I tried to check out MUHCC.org and it says that the url does not exist. If I could actually find your site, maybe I could understand what you are trying to convey in your post.

Also, could you explain what you meant when you said that police and fire are socialized?

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Cynde L. Hammond

ChooChooMagoo

If we’re going to have a stimulus, why don’t they just go ahead and do one thing with the money: Nationalize health care!

Exactly!!! Thank you mountainaires.

Nationalized health care would help everyone. Homeowner, renter, young, old, employed, unemployed, small business, corporations, state and local govern. It would be expensive but we would actually have something when the economy rebounded would put us, individually and as a country, on firmer footing for the future.

I too have quibbles with some of Feldstein’s suggestions.

I just don’t get this mind set of stimulating people to buy, at a time when no one has job security. The american tax payer is already carrying this whole financial burden on their back.

Throwing more bricks (in the form of increasing deficit spending) on the tax payers back in order to pay them to buy more food and a better brick holder so they can maintain their strength and carry more bricks has a certain logic to it. But it overlooks the fact that there is a limit to how many bricks an individual can carry before the knees buckle and most people were already carrying more than they should. And it also totally ignores that everyone seems to be standing in quick sand (as far as job security). And for each person the gets sucked under or their knees buckle there just that much more to be piled (at an ever increasing rate) on top of those left standing with knees quivering under the already crushing weight. In the end the weight or the quicksand will crush us all, but those darn bricks will be intact and the brick makers saved.

ChooChooMagoo

most people are already carrying more (bricks) than they should – bricks being debt whether personal or govt.

Sassy

Thanks LD for another informative post!
Unfortunately, it appears that this democratic donkey is going to leave the barn running with billions in the saddle bags!
The republicans who caved in and hit the saddle under-cut anyone’s ability to slow this thing down!
One party rule is bad enough without “smoozers” from the other party aiding them, in direct opposition to the opinions of the majority of the populace!
OG

Why do the work when others’ work will do?

Sign the petition!

http://www.nostimulus.com/
http://www.nostimulus.com/?q=petition

It’s porkalicious!

mountainaires

I have a question; this has puzzled me for a while now. Why do they argue that “your children and grandchildren” will have to pay for it?

Seems to me, that they undermine their own argument using that tactic. It creates its own dismissal, even for parents. It makes more sense to me to present the argument that “YOU will be paying for it.”

Because baby boomers and grandparents will be paying for it long before their children and grandchildren do. It won’t be that many years down the road when the payments are due for these deficits. Right about the time these parents are filing for Social Security…

lark

Maybe LD can answer that question for you. I think that it is assumed that we pay interest on debt in ascending order and not in descending order. Earlier or older debt is paid first. Second, debt is paid from payroll and corporate income taxes and not from fees or other user type taxes. So younger and unborn generations will have it in their genes to pay payroll and corporate taxes to pay for the interest on this one trillion from the first dollar of income they make.

The argument is made better that somehow this trillion will make their lives better. That’s the argument. But it is difficult to say that the life of my descendants would be better if they will be indentured to the government and required to work where assigned and the hours assigned.

Mary

Yes.

The interest on the war debt (we charged the costs of that, too) is around $300 billion a year, and that’s the very first thing the government pays.

Interest on this stimulus will be around $30 billion a year, and will “wait its turn” behind the older debt/interest to be paid off, increasing in interest as it waits.

It ROLLS to our children and grandchildren, and every time interest payments take more from the annual budget, there are LESS $$$$ available for any new programs like Head Start or Healthcare.

Think of a pie chart. Interest payments on our debt being paid first, the more of that pie that interest on the debt takes, the less available for other things from that pie.

That includes money available for investments and the private market.

lark

Correct. Then the theory of that Dr. Marc Faber kicks in, which is that you want to pay that interest with cheaper dollars. Inflation. But inflation really does not help future generations. Why? Because inflation in the U.S. does not mean inflation elsewhere. So what? So what is that in a condition where the government depends on its citizens for paying the debt, it will look at ways of taking its citizens hostage. Similar to Iran, Cuba, China, etc. Our citizens in the future generations will be struggling to afford even high school, even buying a book, even buying a computer. They will be dependent on a government program for as little information as they need.

Our descendants will simply hate us and hate this country.

OG

It is the interest on the debt that exponentially increases. It won’t be us paying for it. We will long have been gone…
QUEENIE

What social security would that be..the one Obama was put into office to blow up?????????..The one his giant changey job is to make sure no one gets????? since he has to cover up the Bush raping of it..it is one of the main purposes he was put into office..Check out the bio’s of the people he is putting in charge of SS…i dare you!!

mountainaires

Betting all on economic theory?

This will be a test of Keynesian economics, and we will have our answer on Keynes when all is said and done, but the costs and the risks are expensive to determine Keynes’ place in history, don’t you think? There is no quarantee of anything happening from this stimulus except one fact: It will come at a huge cost in the form of deficits, which could actually bankrupt us. We got here by spending too much money and destroying our economic base of production–turning our economy into a debt driven system instead of a production based system. So, now, we’re going to spend our way into a bigger hole, to climb out of it? I don’t get that thinking. Seems to me, we need to just stop digging the hole deeper…but what do I know?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/183611

lark

but what do I know

It seems to me you know.

mountainaires

PhD Economist Marc Faber writes:

Economic conditions may turn out to be far worse than in previous recessions, including the Great Depression at the beginning of the 1930s. Everybody seems to think that, thanks to the government’s monetary and fiscal interventions, this recession will come nowhere near the 1930s slump. However, I think it might be far worse – and precisely because of the interventions.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29047443

I’m a Linda too

fyi…comments caught in spam net

I’m a Linda too

ignore that, it was on “oink” post.

I’m a Linda too

Good LD.
betty

as more a promotion of the Democratic agenda

I take exception to those words. I guess there is still some loyalty to the Democratic Party in me as it is repugnant to me to read a statement that says anything Rahm Emanuel, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid have anything to do with is part of any Democratic agenda. They made themselves laws onto themselves and have nothing in common with true democrats.
Susan

Here in town we decide the big issues via a town referendum. Wish there were a way to have a national referendum on this stimulus package. All we can do at this point is to contact our state representatives/congressmen and tell them what we don’t like about it. In my case, however, Chris Dodd couldn’t care less about what I or any of us in the state of CT think. If he did, he would have stepped down after the mortgage revelation. So, apparently, once again, the little people are screwed, and the politicians control the public purse strings, while our role, apparently, is to just keep filling up the purse!
OldGrumpyGuy

An excellent post that puts things in perspective. I think the idea of tax cuts for home improvements is a very good one, since it stimulates spending on a number of fronts while at the same time increasing the quality and condition of the nation’s housing.

lark

It does quite a number of things including raising the absolute value of the house at its tax base threshold. It also collects fees like permit fees. The trouble is that it also requires something we don’t have anymore. Brains. A good remodeling should first require a plan, a drawing, a list of goods and a few estimates. You can’t hire an architect for a remodeling because the primadonas want to charge too much. You can’t hire a draftsman because they hardly know what they are doing. One needs to hire a contractor on a quasi-verbal agreement that tends to support the high priced items he pushes in order to make a big profit from them. Mostly these contractors don’t know much about benefits and differentiation between products. They just know that the stuff they carry is so much money and that’s it. That is because ‘brains’ in our society are denigrated and unimportant. What’s important is ‘like the stimulus bill’ that the customer sign the contract on that first visit and that they get a big down payment check. After that, whatever goes. And then one wonders why Galveston was totally wiped out with that last hurricane.

QUEENIE

Would this happen to be the same Austan Goolsbee
that told the Canadian government that Obama was only kidding about NAFTA in the primary????????

Did the Obamabots pay attention to anything during the primaries???..I guess they will now that so many of them are losing their jobs..ehhhh????????????
Tough lesson they are learning..and have straddled the rest of us with..maybe next time they will pay attention or listen …if it isn’t too late for most of them…and those of us, they have screwed along with our country.

I am posting this in full because it is no longer available..from my files:

From ABC news. Also diaried at My DD.

ABC news reported this morning it had contacted Senior Economic Advisor Austen Goolsbee in regard to the report by CTV that he contacted the Canadian consulate in Chicago to warn of Barack Obam’s statements regarding NAFTA.

Goolsbee according to the CTV story told the Canadian Government that Barack Obama might engage in some tough talk regarding NAFTA during the campaign since that was a major issue in Ohio. But the report claimed Goolsbee told the Canadian Consulate not to worry that NAFTA was safe with Obama.
ABC reports in any update this morning:
“ABC News’ Jennifer Parker spoke to Goolsbee, a University of Chicago economics professor, Thursday who would not confirm or deny that he had a conversation with Georges Rioux, the Canadian Consulate General in Chicago. Rioux, in meetings this week in Ottawa, would also neither confirm nor deny any conversation took place. Both men did say that they know each other”
.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/ 2008/02/more-on-that-ca.html

AlexisM

Tough lesson they are learning..and have straddled the rest of us with..maybe next time they will pay attention or listen …if it isn’t too late for most of them…and those of us, they have screwed along with our country.

This is what makes me the most angry. The people who voted for Obama did so without even thinking about our country and what it would do to us. They didn’t read, listen or pay attention. Now we have the most dangerous dimwit in history screwing us. I will be angry for a long time. The only thing that makes me remotely feel better is that I can already, less than three weeks in, say “I Told You So.”

QUEENIE

I only wish “i told you so’s” would feed hungry children in this country and heated their homes, and got them health care they need..I only wish the jerks that sold this guy, to those who don’t read and educate themselves, would pay the price they have cast on all of us..but we know..it is all of us that pay the price. “I told you so’s” ..don’t help those of us that care, sleep well at night..when we see our country drowning.

I for one would not spit at the jerks who did this to my once proud nation..they will only get my wrath, and my distain. I will forever hold them accountable. They are lower than dirt in my book and don’t deserve even my “I TOLD YOU SO’S”..
My responsibility is to my constitution..We The People..these folks don’t deserve the constitution! I have stronger words than.. I told you so..but I will refrain from saying them here!!
They will get those words directly from my mouth!

AlexisM

Queenie…I don’t think the people who voted for Obama even know we have a Constitution. For sure they have never read it, nor do they realize that it’s the document that keeps their rights and freedoms secure. They don’t really care that Obama hates all things American, including the documents this country is so proud of. He thinks the Constitution sucks and is a “flawed document” and, recently, he said that we needed a “new Declaration of Independence.” My answer to that? Who the hell does this incompetent, arrogant, unaccomplished usurper of the White House think he is? With his average IQ and lack of any track record, this idiot thinks he knows better than the fine people who crafted and created our unique Republic? He makes me sick. No, “I Told You So” won’t remedy the situation and the horrors of the next four years and disaster for decades of the damage Obama does to us. But, sadly, “I Told You So” is all I have right now.

QUEENIE

ahhh AlexisM i truely understand..find mess these damn obamabots have put us in eh??

I am beyond disgusted..I as well as many many others did not work our entire lives for a party that so disregarded our constitution and our bill of rights, but What i have seen over the past couple yesrs has made me re-evaluate every democratic belief I ever had.

I don’t believe I will ever vote again and I will fight in my state to see that laws are changed that no Obama or Rahmn or Pelosi or Dean or Brazile can ever steal a vote again for another puppet like Obama ..that will be the rest of my life’s work..and I won’t rest until I see that law on the books!!
I despise these miserable bastards as much or more than I despised Bush!

For those who bothered to read PNAC or Leo Strauss’s writings..it was supposed to be a conservative to take us most the way into a new world order ..then a Liberal to finish us off..well a Liberal Obama is not ..but he is the facsimile of a liberal..meant to fool the fools who bought his bullshit!

Welcome to the NEW WORLD ORDER…brought to you by Obama and his idiot followers!
QUEENIE

ahhh AlexisM, I truely understand..fine mess these damn obamabots have put us in eh??

I am beyond disgusted..I as well as many many others did not work our entire lives for a party that so disregarded our Constitution and our Bill of Rights, but What I have seen over the past couple yesrs has made me re-evaluate every Democratic belief I ever had.

I don’t believe I will ever vote again and I will fight in my state to see that laws are changed that no Obama or Rahmn or Pelosi or Dean or Brazile can ever steal a vote again for another puppet like Obama ..that will be the rest of my life’s work..and I won’t rest until I see that law on the books!!
I despise these miserable bastards as much or more than I despised Bush!

For those who bothered to read PNAC or Leo Strauss’s writings..it was supposed to be a conservative to take us most the way into a New World Order ..then a Liberal to finish us off..well a Liberal ..Obama is not ..but he is the facsimile of a liberal OR FAUX liberal..meant to fool the fools who bought his bullshit!

Welcome to the NEW WORLD ORDER…brought to you by Obama and his idiot followers!

Mary

Why , yes……yes it is.

And this is the same Barak Obama who pledge to abide by the PAYGO rules to gain the support of the Blue Dogs in the House.

The very same Barak Obama who spent much of the primary PRAISING Ronald Reagan, and using Harry & Louise ads against Hillary.

The same Barak Obama whose “economic advisors” came mostly from the Milton Friedman Chicago School of Economics.

QUEENIE

OhHHH.. anyone find those missing billions and billions that went MIA in Iraq?????????..Are any of these Hopey/changey folks even looking ..or holding anyone accountable..

onnnnly kidding….I know, I know.. no one but me really cares!!

But is anyone out there who remembers the “MONEY FOOTBALLS ” that were tossed around in Iraq..that was my tax dollars?????????..Didn’t think so.

Strawberrybitch

No we didn’t find the missing billions but KBR just got their contract renewed. That’s change we can believe in.

QUEENIE

Ahhh the same KBR that fed our troops in Iraq blood tainted food caked in mud..that the “Soldiers for Truth” wrote about so many long years ago, when we went to war based on lies!!..Yes Strawberry..that is change we can believe in..pardon me ..I had to leave for the gagging I was just impaired with..While people who voted for this creep lose their jobs..I hope they appreciate those companies that raped Iraq and their tax dollars are seeing so many incredible changes ..their pockets are over loaded..and the off shore banks reap their once hard earned money!

Oh and don’t worry about No Child left behind..now it is the dems leaving all of them behind..and we are getting faith based everything from obamie…

I said long ago..there are no two parties..there is one party, with one big money pot in the middle, of which they will debase themselves for!!
And we, the suckers, who’s money is pilfered, will continue to be destroyed, willingly, until it hits each and every one of us in our pocketbooks! Willing members of the ignorant or not! We all pay the price for the ignorant.

QUEENIE

Ahhhh the same KBR that fed our troops food tainted with dried blood and mud so many years ago when this war of lies began..as reported by Soldiers for Truth , at the time..yes that is change we are now forced to puke to..by the dip sticks that bought the hopey changey bs..The same KBR that broughted tainted water to with parasites for our soldiers to brush their teeth with..now that is some change eh????????

I said a long time ago..there are no two parties any longer….there is one party, with one big money pot in the middle, that they all debase themselves for ..at all of our expense..butIi am sure those hopey changey fools will re-create historical facts ..and tell anyone who will listen, when this ship of fools collapses , that they never voted for the crook!!

Strawberrybitch

Don’t forget KBR is the same company who did substandard electrical work that led to the death of American soldiers. And it was a subsidiary of Halliburton.