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More on the Sibel Edmonds Case

Phil Giraldi has a great article in the American Spectator Conservative (my bad), Found in Translation, on the Sibel Edmonds affair. Giraldi writes:

Most Americans have never heard of Sibel Edmonds, and if the U.S. government has its way, they never will. The former FBI translator turned whistleblower tells a chilling story of corruption at Washington’s highest levels—sale of nuclear secrets, shielding of terrorist suspects, illegal arms transfers, narcotics trafficking, money laundering, espionage. She may be a first-rate fabulist, but Edmonds’s account is full of dates, places, and names. And if she is to be believed, a treasonous plot to embed moles in American military and nuclear installations and pass sensitive intelligence to Israeli, Pakistani, and Turkish sources was facilitated by figures in the upper echelons of the State and Defense Departments. Her charges could be easily confirmed or dismissed if classified government documents were made available to investigators. (read the rest)

I do not believe that Marc Grossman played a role in outing Valerie Plame Wilson. I cannot go into the details publicly, but whatever mention of Brewster Jennings was made on the intercepts Sibel translated had nothing to do with Val.

I think there is some definite smoke with respect to the efforts of Israel and Turkey to collect intelligence in the United States. Like Phil, I believe that needs to be aggressively investigated. I am troubled by Sibel’s attacks on folks like Larisa Alexandrovna. I know both ladies. I like both ladies. I do not believe that Larisa was trying to spread bad information about Sibel nor was she trying to insert herself into the story. Sibel’s vicious attacks on Larisa do bother me. You don’t win victories by attacking your supporters.

UPDATE:  Well, if you missed the earlier fireworks, Sibel Edmonds showed up here and launched a new attack on Larisa Alexandrovna after denying she had ever attacked Larisa by name.  Unfortunately, our move to a new server coincided with this exchange and it has gone up in smoke.

Let me set the record straight.  Sibel has not called out Larisa by name in any of her own posts.  However, Sibel most certainly is associated with websites–Lukery’s, Let Sibel Edmonds Speak in particular–that have attacked Larisa by name.  Here.  Read for yourself:

The reason we have had this much success in the past year is by sticking with the facts in the pursuit of the truth and accountability, and not having the story colored in any way by ideology or partisanship. Sibel repeatedly suggests that the reason the case doesn’t get anywhere in Congress is because of the bipartisan nature of the guilty. The same is apparently true for the online media and blogs. We continue to encourage people to write about this story but it is important to keep to the facts, truthfully and fairly. The case is complicated as it is; exaggerations, distortions and mischaracterizations only cloud the matter.

Unfortunately, we are already seeing this happen. Thanks to Mizgin one such case was caught in time and addressed. It’s frustrating that we’ve come so far, and are so close to finally getting proper exposure to this story, only to see this type of thing break out.

For the record, this blog does not endorse or support Alexandrovna or her views. I ceased association and communication with her in mid-2007.

And Sibel has personally thanked these folks for their work.  Lastly, Sibel has not disavowed any of the comments directed at Larisa, particularly on the Democratic Underground.  I have invited Sibel to provide me just one quote where she disavowed these attacks.  I’m still waiting.  The events today underscore Phil Giraldi’s point:

Passionate in her convictions, she has sometimes alienated her own supporters and ridden roughshod over critics who questioned her assumptions. But despite her shortcomings in making her case and the legitimate criticism that she may be overreaching in some of her conclusions, Edmonds comes across as credible. Her claims are specific, fact-based, and can be documented in detail.

I agree with Phil that Sibel’s claims need a thorough investigation.  And I also agree that, at times, she is her own worst enemy.  Instead of building bridges, she spends too much energy blowing them up and threatening folks, like me, who genuinely wish her well.

  • Taters

    We’re not going anywhere Larry – I’m just getting caught up on today’s excellent NQ.
    Great work and love ya, man.
    Bobby

  • justsomeone

    I tried to get into the NOQUARTER site several times today & couldn’t. I tried going through other sites & that’s when I stumbled across something interesting, that being the “Quountcast” site. Turns out they have some charts on NOQUARTER posters, demographics. They seem to think a high percentage of posters make !00K + a yr, that there’s slightly more female participation than male, lots of folks with post grad degrees, etc. How are they arriving at these conclusions?

    • http://www.evergreenpolitics.com shoephone

      Never dismiss the possibility they are pulling those conclusions out of their asses.

    • http://www.evergreenpolitics.com shoephone

      Got a link for that webpage?

    • TeakWoodKite

      Google yourself lately?

  • lukery

    Larry, given the problems that you have had with your server, I am not able to see/read the comment thread here, so I’m not sure what has been said.

    My blog specifically states “This blog is Owned, operated and full responsibility by Lukery.”

    I stand by MY comments that I don’t endorse her or her views, that I don’t want to be associated with her style or activities, that I ask that she leave us alone, and that I wish her luck.

    We all agree that Sibel’s case needs to be thoroughly investigated, and hopefully we can use the current momentum to ensure that investigations begin promptly.

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      And, Sibel wrote to you and thanked you. True? I think your attacks on Larisa are juvenile and misplaced. You’ve helped orchestrate some pretty venomous words against her on both Kos and Democratic Underground. And I have yet to see Sibel disavow any of that garbage.

  • Longtime DUer

    I think it’s past time that people took a closer look at LA and Raw Story. At the very least, they are self-promoting sensationalists who immediately started bombarding DU upon joining (Byrne, especially). I always wondered where he got the start-up money.

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      Dude, what’s the problem? They’re not putting a gun to your head and forcing you to read their stuff or making you pay for it. Jesus. Who glued your fingers to the keyboard?

  • Memo

    Lukery, the old post and comment thread is available and I’ve snapped it.

    Some of us are still waiting to hear why Alexandrovna took the liberty of changing Sibel’s photo gallery.

    That was the whole point of the DU thread.

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      Because, if you read what Larisa wrote, she got info from other sources. Sibel was not the only person working at the FBI or in the intelligence community.

      • Memo

        How many people at the FBI or in the “intelligence” community read, write, speak, or otherwise understand Turkish?

        Sibel was the one who listened to wiretaps that apparently dated back to 1997–a highly significant year in Turkish history–and I don’t believe she pulled those photos in her gallery out of a hat and posted them randomly.

        Therefore, no one else has any business trying to change them by either addition or subtraction. Especially some Western journalist who doesn’t know anything about Turkey.

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      In fact, here is what Larisa wrote:

      There apparently has been some concern noted on some blogs with regard to my list of names as they relate to the Sibel story. At issue is my removal of Tom Lantos’ name. Let me be clear, I am not saying he is not involved in the Sibel affair. I am saying that I don’t have enough from my own investigation to list him. It may at some point come out that Lantos is knee deep in this. But at this point, I cannot simply throw out a name without having any additional information. It is not ethical.

      As for Kissinger, who does not appear on Sibel’s list, unless everyone has been under a rock for the last 30 years, then you know that the Gladio-like elements within the Turkish military got their weapons and funding from Kissinger and this relates entirely to the coup in Greece. Just as Kissinger was instrumental in the policy of funding and supplying the other right wing extremist groups from Chile to Afghanistan to Saudi Arabia. This is context.

      Finally, I discuss my own investigation here openly for the benefit of others. I clearly have stated that what I am listing is what I have found on my own with regard to the Sibel case and the context against which her story plays out.

      So please no one confuse my notes on this with what Sibel actually witnessed. There are two different things. Like I said, she lists Lantos, while I cannot as I don’t have any information about him in relation to this story. On the other hand, she does not list Kadi (Qadi), but in my investigation, he does show up.

      I hope I have made myself clear so that there is no confusion. I do not speak for Sibel Edmonds nor is she a source of mine. My interest is in the truth, not in representing any particular side of an argument. In this case, the truth is indeed on Edmonds’ side, but lacking all of the facts and pieces, I still have to be careful what I write – even on my own blog.

      For those of you emailing me with complaints and criticism, I have to say I am shocked. I would think folks might have appreciated me sharing information so openly. I could just sit on everything hoping to get a scoop. I have to say I am also astonished at how little coverage these explosive allegations gotten in the US press, but more importantly, in the blogosphere. I am frankly baffled as to why the left especially has not devoted any time to this topic. This concludes my FYI msg.

      • Memo

        Oh, it looks like this is what your little journalist friend has to say about this issue:

        ” I talked to Sibel

        And I feel comfortable that she was not remotely behind this. It appears to be a misunderstanding times a thousand. One misunderstanding leading to millions of others until something gives. I think we all agree that the story is what is important. I continue to support her work and I am glad that this nonsense is not supported by either of us. So, we are indeed all on the same side, which begs the question, just who the hell are the people posting that crap and why are we being targeted? Anyway, I feel much better about the whole thing and I am finally going to bed. Ta DA!”

        Here’s the link:

        http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×2751078

        Are you now ready to retract your smear of Sibel, Mr. Büsküvi Çocuğu?

        • Larisa Alexandrovna

          Don’t call me “your little journalist friend.” You don’t know me (thankfully) and you have not a clue as to what you are saying.

          Don’t drag me into this either. Clearly, I have my views and Larry has his views – or did you think we were “working” together? You obviously like the idea of a big conspiracy or something… hmmm, are you one of those people who think aliens with lasers brought down the WTC?

          Having said that, let me explain something a bit more serious. You realize your violent support of someone only disparages their cause, don’t you?

          I can’t imagine having anyone this deranged and obsessed defending me in a public forum. Although I do not speak for her, I would think Ms. Edmonds will likely not appreciate it either.

          And although I clearly do not speak for Larry either, if I were him, I would simply ban you and only let you back if you had a note from your psychiatrist stating that you were back on your meds.

          M’kay? Now run along. You don’t know any of us. You have no clue what you are talking about. And you make yourself look like a fool, and doing so, demean the cause you claim to be fighting for.

          • Bill Keyes

            WTF is this all about? Why don’t you “run along now”, step outside, fight to the death over who said what about who and let the rest of us get on with the business of living???

            • Larisa Alexandrovna

              Actually, I was simply reacting to the non-stop nonsense from this small group of people who want to “fight to the death” over something they know nothing about. But yes, I tend to agree we need to go on with the business of living.

  • mmonk

    I was here earlier and was trying to read everything before the server mishap. To be honest, as you read your original piece, do the last six sentences really fit? Were they really necessary? I think not. I agree the Giraldi piece good though.

  • Larisa Alexandrovna

    Look folks, for whatever reason there has been a blowup. We can sit here and take sides without knowing all the facts or accuse people of things without knowing all the facts or simply accept that we are on the same side, like it or not, and that at the end of the day we are all acting in good faith.

    Tensions are high and given what this last seven years has been like, we are all at our wits end. I have never said a negative thing about Ms. Edmonds publicly and I don’t intend to. Nor do I intend to say anything negative about Luke publicly. Whatever his reasons for disliking me, are his own and clearly not something he wants to discuss. I annoyed him a bit demanding answers and losing my cool in private, but if I can let this go, then you all can let it go as well. Luke and I were good friends for a long time and if for no other reason, I will respect that friendship and just simply let this go. I did not respond to his comment at the time, other than to bug him in private. But I let it go and whatever his reasons, he is entitled to like or dislike whomever he chooses to. As is Sibel, assuming she was indeed behind this. We don’t have to all like each other folks.

    I don’t know what happened, but I do know that ultimately Larry, Luke, Sibel and me are all good people doing their best in a messed up reality. We are all on the same side and we need to stop having the focus be shifted toward us.

    We don’t have to like each other folks, but we do have to understand that we need to work together if we are ever to get the crimes of this administration to the light of day. Let’s just drop this now and let it be. Let’s keep the focus on the story, which we all agree is important.

    ###

    And to the person who is wondering how John got his startup money, just so you know, I was working as a hooker, John was selling drugs, and Ron and Toby were doing lap dances for Larry Craig to raise the money needed.

    • Mr.Murder

      Larisa, you’re a national treasure for helping bridge skepticism with reporting.

      Question the answers.

      There was another item this past week, on CSpan, Carter foundation talk on the King legacy. A Soviet dissident was there as part of the program. Wonderful insight by him, via translator.

      The point he connected back was that human rights are civil rights, as several speaker reiterated including Amb.Andrew Young and President Carter.

      The way the dissident’s opinion unfolded includes a pretty stark perspective of where these countries are headed in critical transparency and rights issues.

      A major roadblock to initial talks was the default settings of American segregation and later civil rights struggles. Russia had no need to be preached at by a country unable to tend its own inequity.

      IMO we’ve reached the same wall with torture policy and rendition. We’re even trying to reintroduce those items to areas since freed such oppression, to support causes elsewhere or shape other aims.

      We’ve failed to win peace and security after the cold war by repeating its largest mistakes.

      • Larisa Alexandrovna

        Mr. Murder,

        Thank you for your kind words:)

        • Sometime-CIA-Defender

          I agree. I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and remember that we all want the same thing: the Truth. And if the Truth leads to treason, to see justice done.

          I’d like to thank Sibel, Phil, Larisa and people like Harry Shearer for helping to bring this most important of stories to our attention. And the rest of us need to keep banging away at the MSM and our representatives and getting them to talk about it too!

  • J

    Larry,

    and i still say that the dickersons (larry and melek can dickerson) need to be brought to u.s. justice for their role acting against the u.s. as hostile intel assets for a foreign govt..

    i often wonder how many additional gray hairs they caused fbi’s turk counter-intel sac frields in the process of his investigation. hmmm…..

  • Oilwellian

    I don’t believe Sibel ever said Grossman outed Valerie Plame. What she did say was Grossman warned a Turkish “agent” not to do business with Brewster Jennings because it was a CIA front company.

  • Mr.Murder

    The importance of that was Turkish security was an ISI doorway to EU, American or perhaps even Russian nuke proliferation.

    It’s not like we didn’t know that. We’ve got an air base there…

    Telling Jennings business to Turkey was in essence sending a shout out to the Osama network from Edmonds’ perspective.

    Grossman’s boss may have more to say in the matter, who got loose lipped within the OVP that tasked Marc? They were calling the foreign service shots from the White House.

    On his departure, Clemons give Grossman major props for having helped secure a slower timeline on Iran, one that at least sets reasonable timelines for the IAEA to perhaps tweak the inspection provcess and string it past Dubya’s days in office. Major accomplishments were made in light of Bolton’s bully tour as well.

    It only had about eight comments on it when I started reading the other night, it looks like some enthusiast padded a few submissions on it since. The Wasington Note also has a Cheney mea culpa upon it from Clemons…

    • Mr.Murder

      Clemons gave props to Burns, who succeeded Grossman, aplogies…

      had too many windoze running at the time.

  • CK

    Was Brewster-Jennings more than just one individual NOC? Why did Novak issue a second article that specifically outed B-J?
    I have long thought that B-J was the prize and Ms. Plame was the Natalie Holloway equivalent, the diversion. Usually one sacrifices a bishop to garner something much higher value. So maybe what Sibel translated was part of a sting but not the whole sting or the whole context of a sting. Get the opposition all looking at B-J and some other cover company does the real work?
    Of course if B-J was just Ms. Plame, no other NOCs, no one else using it for cover, then outing it was the same as outing her, first to foreign intel services and then later to the whole world.
    There are times I wish J.J. Angleton were still with us. Ah well his reputation was thoroughly slimed, and is still being slimed.

    • Larisa Alexandrovna

      CK, yes, there were others using that cover.

      • CK

        Thank you.
        So, the outing of B-J that Edwards was aware of put several intel agents and their foreign assets at risk. And if the CIA did not know B-J had been outed by someone at State, then information could be played back through B-J by foreign intel operations and accetpted at whatever level B-J information and analysis was accepted before the outing. Three foreign nations mentioned, each with its own agenda vis a vis the USA response to nuclear proliferation and the situation in Iran, Iraq, and with the Khan network.
        Everything and everyone that B-J NOCs and analysts touched after it was outed is suspect, unreliable. That looks like two to three years of cat walking. And every decision or op based upon those analysis and foreign assets is also suspect.
        I wonder how long it takes to do a realistic damage assessment given the earlier date of B-J’s outing instead of the dates of the Novak articles? I recall that the CIA acted mightily pissed over the Novak articles when they appeared, by implication his articles had exposed ongoing activities and a NOC. So was the CIA “chewing the scenery” or did the Novak articles actually “screw the pooch”?
        I was once taught, that when the shit hits the fan; the first order of business is to UNPLUG the fan. Once that is done the cleanup and error discovery can start.
        WHen the shit hit the fan on this one, it appears that the speed control was turned up instead.

        • Mr.Murder

          A statement of where you work is not an outing.

          What don’t you get about NOC?

          She never said CIA in a a FEC/FERC form, she made a contribution consistent with having cover, she never even traveled with a black book to the extent someone could even assume she had status worthy protection abroad.

          The donation story is a Victoria Toensing story hashed out third person. You do realize she basically recanted testimony in Committee on security topics?

          Lexis the Plame/donor angle. It was worked over twice. The original claims were that she donated to John Kerry. Karl Rove was phishing all donations to the man and tracing them back to anyone in the beltway, this was told to Novak, along with the info she was NOC. Nothing on her form identifies her as CIA. Placing the fact she identified her front employer, and then having someone else disclose who her true employer was, instead of her front company, then trying to equivocate the two, that’s the realm for a pretty poor defense attorney.

          Next thing I know you’ll be crying and tell us to “Just give Scooter back to you….”

          You’re telling me 2+2=5 by adding one extra step to her having used the front. If you aren’t aware you do indeed try to promote NOC cover enough of an extent to shape plausible awareness to enable travel.

          Brewster Jennings was on page 105 of a search engine for “Jennings, Africa,” and varied key Energy words. The trip Bush made to six African countries, which included Powell, to try and drum up war support appears to have been an effort to basically stir the analyst mixture and intimidate or promote the ones most likely to go along.

          Peter Jennings of ABC news went along.

          The NSA is to blame for not vetting Jennings’ name with the items said in speeches and media reports. Condi Rice was along at the time if I’m not mistaken and then head of NSA. It’s on her.

          The NSA should have never allowed Jennings within a foot of the topics for anything Brewster could correlate with.

          The actual Brewster piece was simply an advance PR for travel on energy firm consulting. Nothing about it mentioned the CIA whatsoever.

          Porter Goss was on CNN Crossfire to the week and day and Plame was outed, he knew her before as Plame, not as Valerie Wilson, as she was introduced at the Wilson trip for Niger verification, or lack thereof.

          Goss had breakfast at Executive briefings mornings following the meeting and several other visits as ranking House minority for the Intelligence committee.

          That Bush would put a person that close to the scandal atop the IC after record setting resignations matches his entire M.O. in the same way he made Chertoff a director of Homeland Security soon after he was part of the Ground Zero detail.

          He takes people close to the matter with possible reason to be conflicted and makes them part of the deal, self preservation being an understood motivation of both.

          • CK

            Mr. Murder
            Brewster-Jennings was the prize. Valerie and her marriage were the cherry in the sundae. Pretty Blonde CIA NOC married to Heroic State Department Ambassador. It’s almost as good as Natalie Holloway.
            I am interested in B-J, what it was working on ( from 1994 on as a CIA cover for multiple NOCs and other agency types ).
            I am really REALLY not interested in distraction mongering about Valerie Plame Wilson as if she were the only asset who was in some ways reduced in effectiveness.
            Someone at State outed B-J to the Turks, Pakistan’s ISI and Mossad/Shin Bet BEFORE Mrs. Wilson/Ms Plame filled in the FEC form.
            Several years later Mr Novak outs Joe Wilson’s wife Valerie Plame Wilson as a CIA NOC. Two weeks later Mr. Novak Outs Brewster-Jennings as a CIA cover op that was used by Mrs. Valerie Plame Wilson.
            Unless there is a Wellsian Time Machine at work, the opposition knew of B-J long before Ms. Plame in obediance to the law, filled out her FEC form. That is my interest.
            Was B-J a disposable CIA front, meant to be exposed as part of an op? A bit of the ol sleight of mind?
            Was B-J a real value adding intel op the outing of which compromised intel agents and their assets and contaminated the intel those agents and assets gathered and analysed and which was then used for other ops?
            Did B-J start out to be one and then become metamorphed into the other.
            Here is a question for you:
            Assume that what Sibel heard was an actual outing of a CIA front by someone high in the administration to foreign agents.
            How soon after Sibel heard the outing was the CIA made aware that one of their Fronts had been blown to ISI/Mossad and thus to A.Q. Khan?
            A few hours? a few days? Not until Novak re-blew the cover to the whole world?
            So let’s put the distraction mongering aside and try to examine just how much outing B-J did or did not compromise things.
            Now for the rest of your thoughts:
            Scooter Libby should have been tried for treason, found guilty, and executed, buried, dug up just to make sure it was him in the hole.
            What part of “by blowing the B-J cover they also blew any plausible deniability, and they blew it retroactively as far as foreign intel agencies are concerned” is hard to understand? The foreign intel agencies would immediately start digging into passport and visa records for ANYONE using Brewster-Jennings as the employee of record.
            Plame is NOT THE ISSUE, Brewster-Jennings is the ISSUE. Brewster-Jennings is more than PLAME.

            • TeakWoodKite

              by blowing the B-J cover (ewww) Sorry.

              Sure would make it less of a problem for certian parties in the US government to fly under the radar knowing Brewster and Jennings had been pinged.
              Mr Murder is right about using his gremlins as “picks” and then promoting his “captains” as payment for silence.

              Scooter Libby should have been tried for treason, found guilty, and executed, buried, dug up just to make sure it was him in the hole.

              I heard this happen to Cromwell.

            • Larisa Alexandrovna

              Iran

              • CK

                Larisa:
                Chalabi?
                Ghourbanifar
                Ledeen
                BCCI
                Does it all really run back to Iran-Contra?
                Is this the explanation for the Clinton administration not following up on anything to do with Iran Contra?
                And the explanation for why so many Iran-Contra figures overlap with PNAC figures and are or were high in both Bush administrations?
                Tuesday, in a not very loud announcement, the Bush administration has announced that it will be selling nuclear technology to turkish entities. ENTITIES? The congress has 90 days to attempt to stop the sale and then Bush will just go ahead anyway.

                • TeakwoodKite

                  Does it all really run back to Iran-Contra?

                  If you wanted to, one can look back beyond BCCI as well, say the 1940′s and follow it to the present.

                • Larisa Alexandrovna

                  Yes…I mean I don’t have the whole story by any means. But BCCI did not go away, it was “rebranded”

                  And don’t forget that SISMI helped launder money for Iran Contra as well. Amazing how some Italians always show up in the same places.

                  • TeakwoodKite

                    Larisa:
                    I got interested in BCCI after I read the committee work Sen Kerry, and recalling bits and piece of what info, at the time it occured, was out there. After the “Italian Letter” became public it was hard not to try and connect the two or at least look.

                    whole story by any means

                    I’m sure you could spend 20 hours a day for 5 years and not get the complete picture. That’s is what these folks are counting on.

                    • Larisa Alexandrovna

                      I think it is simply more that it is not that organized. There are factions within factions. Actually, its like a more corrupt version of Congress:)

            • Mr.Murder

              Once said at much at a Kos diary of mine, titled “Cheney Puted Plame to protect Halliburton.”

              She was tasking peak oil and a lot of Saud connections as they pushed instability into emerging, oil rich nations in the first and second world.

              Iraq was the low hanging fruit, but South America and Central Africa has long been the prize of OPEC.

              A lot of the Pacific Asian island Nations as well.

            • simon

              Have the billions in illegal monies generated from the sales of weapons, drugs, et al, what B-J was investigating, in fact generated a parallel economy ? And the need to launder this money, mixing this money with legitimate monies, it drives the world stock markets, right, which could explain the wild market fluctuations we see?

              Is this behind the consumer economy, the “ownership” economy, the push to spend, the huge influx of Chinese money into the American market advocated by Bush, Cheney and their team?

              Is it responsible for the recession, and possible depression, we now face?

  • John Stanton

    Whoa! How ’bout if everyone takes a breather on the he said this, she said that, burning bridges, etc.? The posts read like a bunch of middle-schoolers.

    John Stanton here. I know a bit about Sibel having written a piece or two or three about her case and cause.

    There is, of course, a lot of frustration for everyone on the matter because no one really knows what’s really going on ‘cept Sibel and DOD/State. I’m not sure what it’s like to be under a US States Secret gag order but I’d guess it’s next to a priest having to close-hold confessions from parishioners who should be exposed (no pun intended re: catholics). Must drive ya nuts.

    In the late 1990′s I worked in the defense industry. Even way back then there were rumors about classified US defense contractor technology being traded with the Turks in exchange for lucrative contracts. Back then, many shrugged and thought that this was CODB stuff and that whatever was being traded was low-end technology. Now, however, according to Sibel’s recent information that’s not the case.

    That anyone is surprised that personnel from DOD and State with dual-country loyalty would sell schematics, plans, procedures over the years is amusing, particularly given the fact that contractors hold roughly 90% of all the “government’s” classified information. With continued outsourcing, illicit trading is just going to get worse.

    There is bad-*&^% going on now: US DOJ attorney’s, CIA tapes, warrant-free spying, missing WH email, etc, etc, etc, that it seems a stroke of luck that anyone–no less the UKLT–has taken the matter up. That’s due, I think, to all parties in this post–not least Sibel–keeping the matter alive.

    The bickering betwixt and between is pointless and, let’s face it, does little to advance the story. And, honestly, the people that matter I guess, the MSM and some official inside DOD/State (forget Congress–useless and largely irrelevant as far as defense, security, intel matters go), don’t much care about what we out here in Net Land have to say unless they can earn some money, position or power off the story by exposing or bringing down a competitor.

    From where I sit, Sibel, of course, Lukery, Larissa, Johnson, American Conservative, et al, have all, I think, kept this matter on the slow boil. At least it is still cooking.

  • Waiting in Texas

    I say we start flooding the networks (at least Olberman and Schuster) with this latest story and make someone report on it. I’m sooooooooooooooo sickkkkkkkkkkk of hearing about the Presidential elections, I could scream. If its not on the television, it’s on the web.

    Sibel Edmonds is worth reporting about. I’ve always thought it interesting that the two people that just never seem to go away and keep coming back are Plame and Edmonds. That tells me that what they have to say is true and always has been. Guess Dick never thought two women would be what finally brings him down.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Have Indira Singh and Sibel Edmonds ever compared notes?

    • Larisa Alexandrovna

      Ah, now someone is talking sense!!;)

      • TeakWoodKite

        I had no less than 20 tabs open in my browser with info mentioned from a link posted at NQ. about Indira Singh and the wonderful “folks” she ran into. The impression I am left with is that there was a “morphing” from P-tech onwards and that ran a similar path in terms of people and power stuctures from 2002 until present when contrasted with the information from Siebel Edmonds. Both have hit brickwalls but from different angles. At some point the contours will be difined by the “dead ends”.

        What I am still curious about is the “Go Agile” angle. Google it and the “texture” of hits is very cult like. Some of the tinfoil hat stuff needs to be left at the door but the over arching theme can’t be ignored.

        • Cee

          Did you find any of the following?

          http://www.newswithviews.com/Briley/Patrick4.htm

          • TeakwoodKite

            Chertoff is not a playa…just a soldier. This link seems to attempt to meld several agendas / threads /set of “facts” in to one big ball. If a novice kite like myself can fly in the this foul wind and put 2+2 together, then why I ask are people with more info and skills than I staying staying silent?
            Oh yea, I forgot the MSM has gone insane and postal on us.

            Screw the GAG order! If enough folks came forward at the same time, it could not be co-opted like some x-file.

            Indira Singh was a business associate ( she worked for JPMorgan and Ptech was recommended to her: Her words)of a Saudi financed US company, the Ptech Corporation having terror ties to bin Laden and the 9-11 attacks. Indira Singh independently corroborated Sibel Edmonds’ assertions of drug trafficking, money laundering and arms trafficking ties of US officials and business entities, Saudis and US Air Force officers to the 9-11 attacks. Singh identified that one of these entities was the Ptech Corporation.

            Chertoff believing it is not possible to know in sufficient detail:

            “Frankly, we can’t differentiate between terrorism and organized crime and drug dealing.”

            “These groups don’t hold themselves independently: They work with one another. Terrorists get engaged in drug activity. They have relationships with organized crime.”

            Chertoff left a few things out.

        • Waiting in Texas

          Since you mentioned PTech, it reminded me of an article I read almost 2 years ago. Remember the british guy in Massachusetts that supposedly murdered his wife and child? The following is a link that goes back to Wayne Madsen’s website from Feb 2006. Just thought it was odd – the relationship between Entwistle and PTech.

          “Entwistle double murder case: More here than meets the eye?

          Neil Entwistle, the 27-year old Briton accused of shooting to death his wife Rachel and baby daughter Lillian on January 19, has been linked to classified work on special Internet surveillance software, according to source close to U.S. intelligence. Entwistle was recently extradited back to the United States from Britain to face double murder charges. Entwistle has pleaded not guilty to the charges.

          Police claimed Entwistle shot his wife and daughter with a .22 semi-automatic smuggled out of his father-in-laws home.

          Entwistle’s firm, Embedded New Technologies (ENT), reportedly had connections to the Braintree, Massachusetts-based firm P-Tech, which was investigated subsequent to 911 by the FBI for ties to Muslim Brotherhood financiers linked to Al Qaeda. P-Tech also had software contracts for the FAA, NORAD, Pentagon, and White House during the 9-11 terrorist attacks. According to Entwistle’s mother-in-law, he also told his wife that he had large amounts of money held in “offshore” accounts.

          Entwistle was flown from Gatwick Airport in England to Hanscom Air Force Base in Massachusetts aboard one of the CIA Gulfstream planes previously used to fly “renditioned” Al Qaeda suspects around the world. Entwistle was accompanied by U.S. Marshals. TV footage of the aircraft studiously avoided showing the plane’s tail number. After questions were raised about the use of the Gulfstream, Massachusetts authorities claimed it had merely “rented” the U.S. government’s aircraft for the sole purpose of transporting Entwistle.”

          I can’t seem to find any information on what has happened to this case. They way the media portrayed Entwistle was that his computer was full of porn and he had all sorts of gambling debts. A good way to discredit him is my point. But then again, I could be totally off track.

          • Cee

            Monday November 26, 2007:
            US trial of Neil Entwistle to be delayed

            Thursday November 22, 2007:
            THE TRIAL of Worksop-born Neil Entwistle has been delayed until March.

            • Waiting in Texas

              thanks Cee

          • TeakWoodKite

            One point that I have been giving some thought to is the alliances between small boutique tech companies and larger IBM type companies. Indira Singh made the point that these small privately held firms are very difficult to vet and present a higher counter-intel risk due to the level of access required and the lack of internal security controls. If you can’t examine the source code of a Diebold voting machine what kind of backdoors are available on mission critical infastructure derived from third party cut outs?
            This story about P-Tech reminds me of a movie I saw where everything ran on the same “evil” software.
            I did not know a thing about the backstory on this.

            If as you say he had money in off shore accounts he came by it as a shell.
            Hope this link helps.

            Neil Entwistle Trial Resources

            http://tnlh323.5u.com/

            • Waiting in Texas

              Teakwood,
              thanks for the link. Back in early 2003, someone sent me a link to a website called fromthewilderness.com, which was run apparently by Mike Ruppert, a former CIA agent (for a very short time, he was in the CIA), but also he was a former LAPD cop. His website kept me glued for months. Mike Ruppert also wrote a book called “Crossing the Rubicon,” which was very long and full of some of the more interesting theories behind peak oil and 9-11.

              However, he wrote extensively about PTech and PROMIS Software as well. The evil software that you mentioned in your post reminded me about PROMIS, some sort of back door software, well, that when changed up, could basically control all sorts of things such as radars, elections, stock markets, etc. The theory was that somehow associates of bin laden had gotten hold of this software thru US intelligence channels, as well as others. Anyway, the website is a must read. I know that there are no longer a lot of recent posts, due to Mr. Rupperts failing health, but like Edmonds and Singh, he offers some very intricate details, that just can’t be ignored about PTech and PROMIS. If you go to the site, look to the left and its all done by category. Provides lots of information about Marvin Bush and many other under-reported stories.

            • Larisa Alexandrovna

              It is not the tech firms. It is who owns them. Check on who owns Ptech. Very interesting:)

  • Ben Brackley

    I have to admit to some skepticism over the years about the long-running Sibel Edmonds claims. However, maybe it’s time to take this story more seriously.

    Dana Priest in a chat at http://www.washingtonpost.com/ today seems to agree:

    Crestwood, N.Y.: Here’s the shortest question you’ll ever get: Sibel Edmonds?

    Dana Priest: And the shortest answer: worth following

  • Cee

    White House in panic over Sibel Edmonds?
    by lukery
    Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 07:11:07 PM PST
    Sixteen days after the UK Times’ published a blockbuster article, For sale: West’s deadly nuclear secrets, about how certain top US government officials were enabling Turkish and Israeli interests in supplying the nuclear black market, President Bush quietly announced on Tuesday that he wants Congress to approve sales of nuclear technology to Turkey.

    Is this a reaction to the Times article? It sure looks like it. I wouldn’t be surprised if we soon start hearing about retroactive immunity for the guilty parties, just as we are seeing in the illegal spying case currently in the Senate.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/24/184529/570/807/442607

    • Sometime-CIA-Defender

      That sounds exactly like what’s happening. Guilty dog barking!

      What do we do with traitors again?

  • TeakWoodKite

    Thanks for the heads up Lukery and Cee.

    My jar of Ratatouille says it’s best served cold. Anybody smell a rat? I did not even see this on the crawl..Are nuke technologies the new coin of the realm since the dollar is worthless?

    The Agreement was signed on July 26, 2000, and President Clinton approved and authorized execution and made the determinations required by section 123 b. of the Act (Presidential Determination 2000 26, 65 FR 44403 (July 18, 2000)). However, immediately after signature, U.S. agencies received information that called into question the conclusions that had been drawn in the required NPAS and the original classified annex, specifically, information implicating Turkish private entities in certain activities directly relating to nuclear proliferation. Consequently, the Agreement was not submitted to the Congress and the executive branch undertook a review of the NPAS evaluation

    • Larisa Alexandrovna

      The US manufactures on high ticket item. Since the petro dollar is flailing, I imagine our selling of arms is just going to increase.

      • TeakWoodKite

        think it is simply more that it is not that organized. There are factions within factions. Actually, its like a more corrupt version of Congress:)

        In general terms,it is like Escher’s Relativity 1953 Lithograph. (the one with the staircases)
        Hard to make sense of when you can’t tell which way is up. Still, they are all connected. One Bush legacy will be how he laid bare what was mostly kept intentionally below the radar. For the “neocon” diaspora to survive over time it requires anonymity. It appears that since after the Soviets left Afganistan the contours have become increasingly more visible. The irony of this is the reaction to these sequences of events; one of lethargic apathy from the MSM and the other branches of government.

        I have pondered how to organize these factions in such a manner as to provide a query based approach and in doing so allow for an ability to have multiple parties contribute skill sets, knowledge and experience, to at least have an unredacted, reliable and verified record. I have the conceptual image of a “borg.org” that is immune to the Langaliers among us.

  • John Stanton

    Greetings comrades!

    Ya’ll should should check out the book below. With 300 footnotes it is a tremendous resource and adds a bit more to the story.

    “The Kurdish and Armenian Genocides: From Censorship and Denial to Recognition? by Desmond Fernandes
    http://techybits.net/desfernandes/?ref=BRTA

    See generally Chapter 2.
    Edmonds ref re: Dime a Dozen Generals, Turkey. Also includes material on Lockheed, Ralston, Kurd insurgency, US lobbying via ATC and much more.

  • Sometime-CIA-Defender

    Chalabi was a driving force behind Baer leaving CIA (when he pretended Baer was heading up attempts to assassinate S. Hussein).

    Chalabi sends numerous Iraqi dissidents to Western countries, “Make sure you talk up the WMDs!”, including everyone’s favorite druken liar, Curveball.

    Chalabi convinces Pentagon and Neocons that they will be greeted with roses and open arms.

    When CIA goes to raid Chalabi’s office because they believe he is an Iranian operative, Pentagon warns him ahead of time so he can dispose of incriminating evidence.

    Why is it, I expect to find him at the center of Sibel’s story, should we ever actually get a chance to hear it?

    Additionally, I am 100% convinced, that, if he had replaced Saddam (as was the original Neocon plan), his first act would be to acquire nuclear weapons.

  • http://politickybitch.blogspot.com/ nunya

    Update From The Sunday Times
    January 27, 2008
    Tip-off thwarted nuclear spy ring probe

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3257725.ece