Ruin your health with the Obama stimulus plan. Better yet, just die.

Thanks for this. How do we get the Kool Aid drinkers to once and for all pay attention to Obama and the crooks destroying our country. I don’t want socilized medicine. There’s a better way to handle the health care issues. Like get rid of the illegals using the ER like a doctor’s office. Get rid of the insurance fraud, etc. There’s so much fat and graft in the health care problem that if someone did the work, which Obama will never do, they could straighten this out right. Like McCain would have. This isn’t going to help. And I hope the AARP, having been in the tank for the Fraud, demands their votes back. This is sick, really sick stuff. I’m appalled. But, yet again, the snake oil salesman has taken his act on the road so he can further con the morons in this country into the fear to support this crap sandwich. It’s going to get to the point where we really have to take severe action to save our country.

It’s going to get to the point where we really have to take severe action to save our country.

Exactly…

Uppity, you hit one out of the ballpark again. And they slipped it in while gutting woman’s health provisions and other ridiculous fanfare. Right out of Soros’s playbook. This is vastly different than a single-payer system, isn’t it.

Health care practitioners have already developed software so they can share our health info with hospitals and other docs. Personally, I don’t like the idea of all my medical records being accessible to any hacker, or government official that cares to discredit me for speaking out against The One. Remember Joe the Plumber…now it could happen to you.

This is MUCH TOO BIG BROTHER for my taste. The more info they have on us the less power we have. The powers-that-be already use a good system for their own ends — credit checks — to decide if you should be employed. So it is tougher to get a good job if you have bad credit. Just think if they are able to get info on your health history. It’s coming down the pike.

And all the Liberals were blinded by their own greed for power… so they chose a Poser.

For all you liberal Obots who thought we’d have a chance of natural health and alternative remedies being included in our current national health care if only Obama became president — HA HA HA!

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States”

Bet the congress put in an exclusion for themselves. Bet there are other exclusions too – for wealthy execs. It not really for all americans. Just the ignorant masses.

Just to be clear. I’m for universal health care. But it needs to be done in the light of day. The american people need to be a part of this.

In order for EMRs to benefit at all, we first have to have efficient programs in place that enable health care professionals to be able to USE them quickly and efficiently. The hospital I retired from decided to go to EMRs. As a result of poorly designed computer programs [surely NO input from healthcare professionals themselves], the nurses, doctors and patients all complained that the workers were spending too much time on computerwork and too little time on patient care. To witness this, take a walk down the hallway of any medical-surgical floor of any hospital who has switched to EMRs. You will see all of the workers out in the hall or in the nurses’ station doing electronic charting, instead of spending their time with the patients doing direct patient care. Much money will be wasted, has been already, unless this transition is done right. Errors will continue to increase as well, errors that may cost patient lives. A patient in an EMR is reduced to nothing less than a series of check-off boxes. There is no room in the current system to write descriptive narratives regasrding findings on patient assessments. It is at present a completely flawed system. Surely there are better ways to stimulate the economy.

Note that not one of the press corp had the chance to ask Obama about this provision last night – instead, strawman arguments about “those who want to do nothing versus those who want to help” as far as the eye could see.

I think this has already started with the states declaring sovereignty. Guess some smart folks see what’s coming and won’t have it. These creeps in DC have vastly underestimated Americans. Even the Sheeple will wake up from the crack coma when this sort of stuff gets into the press.

I am fuming more and more everyday! It only gets worse. I am not alone either. Pitchforks and torches anyone?

Tell me where to meet you athena. I’m all over it. And we’re soooo not alone.

(I just posted this once, apparently in the wrong thread.)

In an unguarded flash of honesty, Ed Balls, British Children’s and Schools Secretary and former advisor to Prime Minister Gordon Brown, told a group of Labor Party activists that that current recession “is the worst in 100 years and could lead to the rise of fascism.”

“I think that this is a financial crisis more extreme and more serious than that of the 1930s and we all remember how the politics of that era were shaped by the economy…The economy is going to define our politics … for the next year, the next five years and even the next 15 years.” He went even further, “We now are seeing the realities of globalisation, though at a speed, pace and ferocity which none of us have seen before. The reality is that this is becoming the most serious global recession for over 100 years as it will turn out.”

A start…. send your photo to WESURROUNDTHEM@gmail.com

I truly get madder by the day. The fury building inside me is going to cause an explosion soon. It has been how long this this man bacame President? The hairs standing up on the back of our necks regarding or intuition on this man were there for a reason. What else…

We meet at the same old place–in the impoverished peasant village down underneath the castle in which the “master” sits at his long long table sipping blood with his undead cronies.

Good grief. Now a Government board, that never sees you as a patient, gets to decide what treatments you get based on cost effectiveness not the needs of the patient?

Well, I guess anyone over 30 (see Logan’s Run) or 35 needs to be disposed of. 50+? God help you.

I guess the Newsweek cover welcoming us to Socialism wasn’t a joke.

yep, if you’re a senior, just throw ya away like yesterdays garbage. What I want to know is if Congress will have the same health insurance??

A woman who called into talk radio said this is a nightmare. Dr’s have to get pre-approval for treatment and it is always turned down THREE TIMES. To go through all that takes 2-3 years. By then you’re so sick you can’t even go to the appeal hearing.

Outrageous!!!

I think he was not 100% honest with calling it a recession. We are already in a depression.

never liked tea anyway so I’m definitely up for a rendition of the “Boston Tea Party”….

But Uppity, insurance companies already do this. They are the ones telling doctors what they can and can not do. One of the reasons a family member got out of treating patients (triple boarded)and now just writes medical books is because she got tired of having some punk ass moron with barely a high school education say the treatments she advised for her patients would not be covered by the insurance, even if it could save a patient’s life. But at the same time, we have Octomom and a bunch of obese, smoking, lazy people who refuse to get their butts off the couch, put down the fork, and drop the ciggies who drive up the cost of health care for those of us that do believe that health care is a personal responsibility. I’ve got a neighbor right now, who chain smokes, while on oxygen for COPD, has had several heart attacks, is being treated for cancer and has had a broken back and hip because her bones are so brittle from a sedantary life style, poor diet and smoking. Or how about a 98 year old woman we know, with terminal cancer receiving chemo? How many children could we innoculate. Or how much could we spend for preventative healthcare? I’m not saying Obama’s plan even remotely addresses these questions or why it’s tucked away in a stimulus package but damn it, what the hell are we going to do in a country where people die in ER waiting rooms from lack of insurance yet, we don’t hold people responsible for their own health choices. Sorry for the rant. I guess what I’m saying is, clowns the left of us, jokers to the right and I’m stuck in the middle with you.

Glenn Beck yesterday asked when Americans were going to pick up pitchforks and head for Washington!

CAROL HAKA

I read that Gary – but he blames the “Fascism” on the far right. Anyone here read Liberal Fascism? Great read and highly recommended.

I did watch the New Conference last nite. Oh lord – long winded bunch of bunk. I am still removing forks from my eyes and my ears ceased bleeding this morning!

For the first time in my adult life I am not proud of my country.

Time for everyone to watch or rewatch the flick Soylent Green.

They get a double bang out of this. They also will pay out less social security once we kick the bucket.

that’s the truth….

Of course your electronic medical records being available in a database won’t in any way affect your ability to get health insurance or the price that you will pay for it or for that matter your future employable status or your credit worthiness for mortgage loans or life insurance… How far away is the mandatory bio-chip? You know to protect us from terrorism and illegal aliens and all that as a side bonus to being able to get medical care.

As my Mother would say: “What can you expect from a pig but a grunt.”

Not only Congress but the President and the entire executive branch. I expect him/them to live by the same bill he intends to sign.

And hey, what about all those illegals straining our current social systems now?

Yep, and you can’t watch the discovery channel anymore without seeing at least an ad an hour for mobility scooters at “no cost to you”… and diabetes testing supplies… there must be a loophole big enough to drive a truck through there. They are falling over backwards to get the medicare folks on their auto-ship programs. There is a *lot* of waste in health care… and yet if children don’t have insurance, they may very well die from no care.

Then it’s a WIN-WIN situation! Just set up the centers where the “old and in the way” can enjoy their last calming super-duper cocktail and watch a 3-d travelog of peaceful sun-bathed pastures while they drift off to slumberland . . .

I would buy Wesurround them if I didn’t think Beck was a pig of the other horrible extreme. Furthermore, religion plays to big a part in his salient “points” to this program. He’s just the other extreme. And that’s what’s wrong in this country. Two parties have been hijacked by nutbags. It’s just a matter of which set of nutbags are in charge. If it were up to Beck, we would all just as well die too.

I respect him not.

HMOs already do all this crap. At least with the government we have a chance to change the political system that runs it.

Obama’s not going to do anything to drastically change healthcare. He is too beholden to the healthcare industry.

We do have to keep pushing and holding this administrations feet to the fire.

Anytime someone brings up anything that Glenn Beck says all I read is asshole…asshole…

Alexis, most of the kool aid drinkers would just as soon spend all their parents’ money and let them die once they can no longer provide the goods. They are young shits who think they will be young forever. They understand nothing except how to be supplemented by their parents so they can appear “upscale”. In ten years they will all be saying, WHat The HELL was I THINKING! And that will serve them right because they are all going to be paying the debt they thought was cool for the rest of their miserable lives. When they realize they won’t be able to get anywhere in life without government stopping them, then they will get it.

oowawa…if it comes to that, I hope I’m eating a Pelosi Pig Biscuit. Nasty.

Send the bill to Mexico. Seriously. See how fast THEY close those damn borders. But then who would all those rich bastards hire for cheap labour to clean their pools, mow their lawns and raise their spawn? OMG they might actually have to pay American workers a real wage with benefits…the Friggin’ horror.

What if it’s your grandmother or great grandmother? Would you be willing to let her die because of her “lifestyle choices”?

Oh yeah Deepak and Weil. LOL.

Uppity, I am a huge fan. I had already read the article. It is interesting that BO was not asked a question about this last night.

Could it be because the whole thing was a SCAM? They had to be on a list given to Obama, he then called on the people on his list for a question. There will be NO MORE HAND RAISING?? at press conferences?

The disturbing thing was they were also assigned seats…can you smell the BLAGOVITCH factor here??

I think the AARP has been snoozing some where in a corner, don’t you???

BO’s message…Shut the F___ up and vote for this trillion dollar mystery bill..that’s how alot of people bought their homes. Don’t ask , don’t tell makes a comeback.

HMOs already do all this crap. At least with the government we have a chance to change the political system that runs it.

Your assignment is to go read Dachle’s book.

Uppity…I just sadly told my 79 year old mother about this. I am fuming. These aren’t even human beings. But you can tell the mentality of those who voted for the Fraud, their lack of compassion or respect for human life, by the way the trolls talk here. They ridicule and bash anyone and everyone who isn’t young, from an urban mecca, and who didn’t attend an Ivy League School. I couldn’t believe some of the troll stuff I read here that just blasts off at real Americans, people who make this country work. It’s like this whole generation full of Obama’s hate, and anyone who isn’t valuable in their opinion should just die.

Obama has engendered more hate and division in this country than even I thought possible. But this has taken it too far. There’s no way we should sit still for this. And Arlin Specter deserves to face a firing squad for treason.

Ford, thank you.

They claimed there were 1500 tickets yesterday to his “town hall”. But the people were upset because they only handed out 250 to the waiting crowd. The rest went to the plants.

I respectfully disagree. He is definitely extreme but lately he is very careful to not incite but unite those of like minds. A belief in a god is important from him, arguing that our FREEDOMS ARE GOD GIVEN not given to us by the government. I tend to agree with that although I am not a “religious” person. Through this whole political process I have redefined myself as more conservative than I thought before. Maybe because the “new” democratic position is one that I cannot identify with it at all. Is there any other “movement” that you would endorse that might have the exposure and voive that this movement potentially has?

At this point in my life I am insurance fortunate, by having it, via my husband’s employer; if not I cannot imagine my quality of life would be much, as I require medication to keep my joints moving due to severe rhematoid arthritis. I have lost weight, I eat healthy, have great carido, and lipids. This disease process isn’t one of my making (perhaps via genetics, as they are finding out). I move and do as much as any person, and more than quite a few as well. What frightens me, this “simplistic” disease, is stills seen as an “old” persons malady, simply to do with aging(which it isn’t, young children also have RA). What frightens me, is how people with various disease processes will begin to be boxed and classified, and care will come depending on what the current public policy is regarding if they are deserving. I have been through this already, by a very racist doctor who didn’t want to treat me because he thought I was mexican; further another physician felt it was all due to my previous smoking(which still occurs off and on, I imagine it will stop again once my son return from Iraq). Yet another who had decided it was all because of menopause. My fear defined relates to how we have “x” amount of chances even under the best of medical plans, and they are spent foolishly on non-related diagnosis to pad the pockets of less quality doctors. You get labeled, boxed in to what the disease is “presumed” to be by opinion, not fact, then are minus you benefits after they are used up by slack professionals. When that is done, you more than likely will not have the thing you need, in this case to keep you going-a single prescription drug to control the attacks.
That is my fear into the future, for now I am fortunate with insurance and a good rheumatologist.

He’s doing another propaganda hall right now. And you can TELL the questions are deliberately softball. It’s Bush all over again.

Lil’ Mike get real. If the GOV knows about you so will all of your employers BEFORE you get the job, as will insurance companies, and auto insurance, and home owners insurance, and the credit card companies.
You will be a marked person if you have had a costly disease…people won’t hire you.
There is a very large downside to this data base thing.
Duvall Patick is putting a chip in every car in MA so that he can charge them tax for gas, and know they are not coming to NH to buy their gas.

So tracking people in data bases, and on the street is not BIG BROTHER…use your own brain.

Remember the little boy who died from an infected tooth? Or the young girl who died waiting for a decision from her insurance company regarding an organ transplant? Who was that rich baseball player who destroyed his liver through booze that was able to jump ahead in line for a new liver because he was a hall of famer? Sorry, I think if you destroy your body through booze, drugs, ciggies, nasty diet, you should pay a hell of a lot more of your own healthcare costs or get no help at all from the rest of us.

I was a democrat when you were still having bladder accidents in school and your mother had to bring you a change of clothing.

You should leave home now while you still know everything.

Beck is just careful because he isn’t in charge. How quick we forget what a sack of crap he was to Hillary. He’s a right of right of right cliff extremist who is pulling in his horns and circling until he gets his chance to be just as awful as what we have now–to the other extreme.

Brown called it a depression. Couple hours later issued a press release claiming it was a slip of the tongue.

Complete collapse of the world’s financial-monetary system is what it actually is.

There is a way out of this, but for one thing, people are going to have to get a grip on themselves in the midst of this slo-motion 9/11.

Meanwhile, here’s a message of hope/break from the outrage and panic for anyone who wishes to avail themselves of it. It’s true. (I am by no measure any sort of religious nut, don’t misinterpret.)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1119145093136656165&ei=jZWRSaiHB43QwgPB4qy7Dw&q=%22People+get+ready%22&hl=en

I respect him not.

Maybe one day you will, no?

I am a tea drinker…..so let’s use Kool-aid!

Oh Good, the douchebag troll is here. Get a life jackass. Maybe you’ll get injured and wait 2-3 years to see a doctor. Couldn’t happen to a nice troll. Loser.

I’m still very angry with my father over his life style choices. He smoked like a chiminy and drank like a fish. He cost the state of California, and his private insurance and my mother close to a million dollars in just his last year of life. Damn straight. I’m no hypocrite. Which is why I’m so upset we having a smoking president.

……speaking of Kool-aid!

Strawberry it is against the law for an HMO to make decisions based on the age of the person or the nature of their illness. And you have right of appeal. This is not what Daschle has in mind and his book is their bible.

I am for universal health care. But it needs to be done in the light of day. The american people need to be a part of the discussion and decision. We are not ignorant children for others to decide for us. Do you really trust this band of corrupt enablers of corporate vampires. Do think they are even capable of making decisions that are in the best interest of the american people. Look what a mess they made of prescription drug insurance. The corporations are sucking the american people and this country dry and the govt’s only concern seems to be making sure the corps don’t lose a drop.

Asshole? What makes him an asshole? Extreme? Yes and very, very conservative yes – but asshole? No. That is like Cher asking why anyone would wnat to be Republican? I listen to BOTH sides. I want to know what kind of dust they are throwing up…

Loud mouth extremists like Beck and Hannity were the only ones out in mainstream media talking about Obamas past, associations, etc. They were the few not fawning over him.

Well the only ray of sunshine in an Obama “Presidency” is that he will make things so bad here that I predict the illegals start running to the border to escape from this crap hole. And, yes, Americans should pick the lettuce, not illegals.

Under this plan, if you had what Ted Kennedy has you would be left to die. But not Ted. No sir. Guys like him will be special. Just like now.

You poor pitiful fool, conservatives? Mostly ex-democrats. Please, at least make an effort to educate yourself about who you are addressing.

What can you expect from a pig but a grunt

Per Animal Farm, once the pigs gain control of the farm, you can expect them to walk on two legs and move into the big house while their 4-legged subjects struggle outside to support the pigs’ lavish lifestyles. Expect them to party a lot. Also expect lots of speeches explaining to the 4-leggeds why they need to work harder and sacrifice more.

Ok, the above comment was directed to a comment that has been removed; the cat did not use the keyboard, I repeat I did not let the cat use the keyboard.

I agree athena. If there are only two honest journalists that tell the truth about Obama and the filth of those around him, so be it. But I feel very grateful for Hannity and Beck for bucking the system, taking the heat and ridicule, in an attempt at “fair and balanced” reporting. We’ll be in big trouble IMO if anything ever happens to Hannity.

Another issue people are not realizing is this is another squeeze on the middle class rights. The wealthy in this country can fly wherever to get treatment if our hospitals, etc won’t do it. The middle class – who has to rely on insurance to cover a medical costs – will have to abide by what our governement says is OK. They will end up in the poor house if they have to pay directly for treatment. The more government dependent and poor people we have in this country – they more they will vote for these creeps. The liberal elites don’t care because as long as they support these guys, the Chicago political machine will continue to give them favors.

Let’s say a young person drives too fast and gets into an accident and is permanently paralyzed as a result. There’s a payment for a lifetime of medical care. They made a bad choice. Just let them die? What have we become when money becomes more important than people?

We can’t blame the insurance companies for their attitudes when our own attitude is: made a bad choice? Then die. How many people make it through a lifetime and never make a bad choice?

It’s one thing to say I don’t want health care for child molesters, serial killers, rapists etc.

But if you’re willing to deny health care to others for bad choices then be willing to do the same within your own family. Otherwise it’s hypocrisy.

Re: changing this through the political system. Most Democrats were against the FISA bill. Obama voted for and got a free pass. Obama’s going to “look at ” leaving Iraq two years from now. That’s now okay. Why should our politicians listen to us when we give them a free pass when they ignore our wishes? Change the political system? By voting?

Many Americans were against the bailout bill and the stimulus package. Faxes, letters, and phone calls ensued. The bill passed anyway. What system? The one that doesn’t listen to it’s own people? How’s that working out for you?

Docelder, you won’t get an argument from me on that. I want to smash my TV when I see that scooter commercial. “It didn’t cost me a thing”. No, it didn’t. I PAID for it. It is true that these things are ludicrous and that the current “great generation” milked the system but good, but when it comes to life and death being decided by the government, I draw the line. And that is what we are talking about here. When we decide the old, infirm and disabled aren’t worth having around, we are the most vile of societies, separately from the animal kingdom by only the fact that we walk on two legs.

Living in our country will soon be a real nightmare.

I think there has always been a seating chart for POTUS press conference and SOP has been to select areas from the chart for the potus to call on media.

The hc issues should not be part of this package. I can see the emr—my provider has such and I like being able to go online to my account and get my test results, and what those results mean, email my dr. if I want to, get responses etc. The other stuff is not about emr; it is about health care policy/procedures and should be separate from the stimulus package.

I do think that we need to have a dialogue about the health and lifestyle choices people make. But it is interesting to note that only recently we got the word that our life expectancies are going up because of clean air acts. What we do not know is what the obesity revolution among the young is going to mean 50 years from now. We need research on these issues now.

November 4th was the end of me being proud to be American. And until those idiots are gone, I will feel shame for America.

You are an embarrassment, troll. And the GOP is going to kick your boss’s commie butt in 2010 and 2012. And it will be buh bye to your fellow dirtbags, Reid, Pelosi, etc.

I just e-mailed my Republican Congressperson and asked by the caucus not talking about these provisions to essentially do away with elder health care and what reason is this in a stimulus bill other than to prevent discussion as Mr. Daschle suggested in his book. To bypass the congressional protocol to hoodwink the public is immoral. The public is so stupid that it must be lied to for its own good appears to be the new administration’s approach to everything.

You little Regressive pisspots are going to pay for this bill for the rest of your miserable lives. I am just glad I am young enough to be able to laugh and watch some of it. You are not Democrats. You are left cliff nutballs just like the republicans were taken over by right cliff nutballs.

I shall enjoy your poverty. If you are good, Barack will let you have a whole chicken this week for dinner. Me? I’m all set and I am going to stay all set.

agreed….

You cannot separate BO from where he can from, it’s the way he has learned to do business…old habit I guess(after his pitch response last night). He was schooled in the the intimidation of politics in Chicago, and he thinks raw power and rules he makes are the way to go.

He also demonstrated no insight as to why his pitch so far hasn’t worked…it reminded me of Bush. He has not idea that he awaken a sleeping giant. The press hasn’t told him , so he still doesn’t know that BP singlehandedly raised the corpse of the Pubs….between the attack on Steele and the Porktopolis he is recruiting for the R’s.

Maybe if Beck and Hannity had been as “objective” with George Bush we would be better off today and would have had a bunch of sheep falling for a Socialist out of desperation.

Good grief. Now a Government board, that never sees you as a patient, gets to decide what treatments you get based on cost effectiveness not the needs of the patient?

Insrance companies do that now, and call it medical necessity.

We have a local ob/gyn who BC/BS dropped as a provider. He tangled with them 1 too many times. He is always thinking about his patients. He was my doctor and he lowered his fees to rock bottom to help me with my condition.

Idiot Bot –

“Power concedes nothing without a demand.” Frederick Douglass

At this rate, its sadly the Democratic Party that’s already showing its division according to Republican plan. Since it is obvious you and yours know nothing about political history and are blinded to the fact that the Democratic Party is gonna blow up in all your faces while you just sit there with kool aid drool. You need to watch Bill Moyer’s recent weekend program to get it; Obama is NOT who you so desperately want to believe he is. Just like any other religion, you have been indoctrinated and need to wake up! Obama has played you all for the biggest of fools.

Now I’ve wasted enough time with you.

I’m not saying one bad choice, God knows I’ve made my fair share of “What the Hell Was I Thinking?’ choices. We’re all human. I’m talking about the person, like my father, who was told for years to stop smoking, lose weight, stop drinking…do we deny them health care, no but make them pay a hell of a lot more of THEIR OWN COSTS. Candymarl, everyday, I make a choice… I choose the steamed veggies over the yummy, drippy cheeseburger, I choose to get up and haul my butt to the gym for two hours a day at the crack of dawn, I choose to not smoke, so YOU candymarl, don’t have to help pick up my health care tab. It’s part of being a good responsible citizen.

Yep the line to congress is BUSY – cannpt even get through. How many calls do think there are saying – I want this stimulus package? I heard it was 100-1 – NO to the stimulus!!!!

When you say bad choices I hope you are not talking about smoking and being overweight. I am not saying let them die but both of those are known to cause an array of diseases. There is no excuse for this. A bad choice is one thing. But to make a lifetime out of bad habits is inexcusable as far as I’m concerned.

Oh, and one more thing. Doctors who do not obey are not “meaningful users” will face stiff penalties.

Thanks, Uppity, for pointing this out. We have reason to be very concerned about the future of medicine in our country. Bureaucrats SHOULD NEVER have power over your physician in determining what treatment you receive.

Not to totally change the subject but ck this out. Look what Obama has done for his city of Chicago. “So with all of the good vibes coming out of Chicago, how does it show up as the third worst city on our second annual list of America’s Most Miserable Cities?”
http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-most-miserable-cities.html

when this sort of stuff gets into the press.

Alexis, can this still happen? We still have the internet as an open forum, but the MSM still orchestrates a softball venue that cannot possibly offend The One. It seems that we’re really at a critical juncture here. My crystal ball is so opaque, I can’t even write the next sentence.

Times can be tough little bot. Deal with it and get yourself out there and into the real world. We’ve had bad times before and we didn’t need the govt to bail us out. We did it all by ourselves. That’s what’s called being an American. Go to Sweden if you want the govt. rescue business. You don’t know what charity, vlountary help and self-reliance are all about. You’re about to learn the hard way what you think you want. The rest of us know already how to do it. Good luck and I hope you enjoy the ride down hill.

Times can be tough little bot. Deal with it and get yourself out there and into the real world. We’ve had bad times before and we didn’t need the govt to bail us out. We did it all by ourselves. That’s what’s called being an American. Go to Sweden if you want the govt. rescue business. You don’t know what charity, voluntary help and self-reliance are all about. You’re about to learn the hard way what you think you want. The rest of us know already how to do it. Good luck and I hope you enjoy the ride down hill.

http://www.slate.com/id/2210835 Tech for America
Should Obama really use stimulus money to invest in broadband and online medical records?

Arlen Specter – a man who has battled cancer on and off for how many years? And how old is he? Will he be getting special treatment for all of his health issues? And what about Ted Kennedy? Oh, guess they are exempt from this – silly me. They’ll be cruising around DC in their green golf carts – courtesy of the new stimulus bill.

He was schooled in the the intimidation of politics in Chicago, and he thinks raw power and rules he makes are the way to go.

Chicago intimidation tactics extend to teachers physically assaulting students: Hundreds of students beaten, choked

CBS 2 informed former Chicago Public School CEO Arne Duncan of our investigative findings shortly before he was promoted to U.S. Secretary of Education.

“If someone hits a student, they are going to be fired. It’s very, very simple,” Duncan said.

Before heading to Washington, he vowed to take action.

“Any founded allegation where an adult is hitting a child, hitting a student – they’re going to be gone,” Duncan said.

But that’s not what happened under Duncan’s watch. Of the 568 verified cases, only 24 led to termination. Records show one teacher who quote “battered students for several years” was simply given a “warning” by the Board of Education.

Under the new regime, teacher-on-student violence coming to a school district near you?

True. Beck says as much now….He believed him (Dubya). He admits now that he was duped.

According to Reuters, as of 12:40 PM, EST, they are reporting that ‘Senate passes $838 billion economic stimulus plan, sets up negotiations with House of Representatives’. Sorry no link as yet.

Uppity

Great job of exposing the fraudulent nature of the health care part of the stimulus bill. Do you think Senator Kennedy and Senator Specter would want their cancer treatments rationed too?

Memo to Obama – The government works for us. It is the states that formed the national government and not the other way around. Only 3 weeks in office and you have become the biggest spender of our tax dollars and now you are going to ration our health care. How does impeachment sound?

The more info they have on us the less power we have.

Is this an indirect way of saving money? More and more folks will not go to the doctor b/c they will not want their issues to be disclosed.

Brilliant!

POWER = MONEY.

So with all of the good vibes coming out of Chicago, how does it show up as the third worst city on our second annual list of America’s Most Miserable Cities?

At least it’s been community-organized. It is enjoying organized misery, not chaotic misery.

Oh crap. Before I forget….here is one you DIDN’T see on ABCNNBCBS or FAUX News.

Direct from Nancy Pelosi’s website/blog

‘The Gavel’

. Written by Karina on February 6, 2009.

What 3.6 Million Jobs Lost Over 13 Months Looks Like

Check out the graph in this. You’ll die.

http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=1683

Uppity, my insurance company refused to cover my back surgery because according to their guidelines I was too young to suffer from this sort of injury. I had my car accident when I was 19. I just had my back fixed at the age of 40. I have spent years in and out of ER rooms, doctors offices, Chiropracters(sp) you name it. I had to appeal for years and years until the injury became so bad I could no longer walk. The surgery probably cost them much more than it would have had they just treated the injury in the first place. The dumbshits. And now I have a fused back instead of two replaced discs which is a much less expensive and invasive surgery. The insurance company says it’s still experimental even though Europe has been doing it for 15 years. The real reason, everybody with ruptured discs would benefit from disc replacement. It’s much harder to qualify for back fusion. You have to have no other options for the 100,000 dollar operation. As where a replaced disc is only 15-20 grand and you’re back on your feet in days not months. But seeing how there are literally millions of people who would benefit from it, insurance companies would have to pick up the tab. Not to mention, drug companies would lose millions from their anti inflamatory and pain killing treatments because we would be cured…and no longer rely on life long “treatments”. But seeing how Daschele took millions from the Health industries, I’m guessing he has their best interests at heart, not yours or mine. Two sides of the same coin.

GOP you are a douchebag. Period. And “doom and gloom?” That’s what your very UnPresidential lord and master is using on pathetic Americans like you to pass Pelosi’s Bacon Bill. Go move to another country. You’re an embarrassment to America.

LOL…..most here are Democrats who remember the ‘Contract with America’

You should brush up because I suspect another version around the midterm elections. Obama and the DNC have left a huge hole for the Ind and Rep to drive through in two years.

Well, oowawa, we saw Maureen Dowd, Peggy Noonan and Frank Rich start to turn a little. One can only hope. The big news will be when all of the grassroots resistance movements are localized into one big internet group. I think when that happens, and people have specific actions to take, that we will see a difference. Also, I think there are three, if not more, documentaries in the works. It’s only a matter of time before Obama is exposed for the scumbag he is.

He is not so critical of Hillary anymore. Does not excuse any prior behavior however.

AND BARKY SMOKES!!!!!!!! Sorry, that just came out!

FDR my ass. But what the hell? The mayor of Shrevesport, Louisiana wants to use a portion of his share of the stimulous give-away to rehab the older houses and areas of the MLK district of that slimey city. MFers.

Can we hope that the senators and representative’s are held to the same standards? Their costly health insurance does not buy them the coverage they are denying the rest of us?

By time the media gets around to doing their jobs, the cat will be out of the bag, the cow will have jumped over the moon and the horse will be long gone from the barn … bills will be passed and money spent. There does come a point when it is too late. As far as I can see, that date was November 5th … or May 31st depending on how you calculate it.

Well yes, this is what “universal healthcare” looks like. The village gets to decide if you are worth the costs.

I agree, Uppity. Nutbags on both sides. Beck wouldn’t support McCain until Palin came on board. McCain was too moderate for his tastes, not a real Republican [which often means not religious/conservative enough], excoriated him for his immigration stand and ridiculed him for his stance on climate change. Obviously, to be a “real” Republican, you need to buy into Beck’s group think.

And then, we have the Lefties who think Cuba’s a great place to live, would have us living in unheated huts, eating granola bars and playing magical flutes until our enemies hug us.

Me? I can’t stand either party at this point. And yes, Beck ridiculed HRC every chance he got.

We’re screwed, bigtime. Crazies to the right of us, crazies to the left!

Start stockpiling information. I say the barter system is the best way to fight this crap. Learn a good skill and swap it with your doctor. Go work for a drug company. Move to Mexico …

How does HIPPA factor into all of this?

Hell I can’t even be talking on my cell phone at the CVS drive up or they won’t wait on me as in violation of the HIPPA law..

My poor uncle, approaching age 90, sent me an e-mail last night, all uset about the medical portion of the so called Stimulus Bill. He said they mentioned me and they said that those who are old should not expect medical coverage, just suck it in.
This is unconscionable to try to save Medicare money on the backs of those who depend upon it to live out their lives. My uncle and his wife(nearly his age) apparently have been in good health and have survived this long due to decent living and good genes. During WWII he served as a naval fighter pilot and afterward served in the CA Air Guard for a long time. He and everyone else in the older category deserve to be treated like a human being by our government. Yesterday I had my 78th birthday and I’m healthy at this time, but I shouldn’t have to be worried that I’ll be put out with the trash if I need a doctor in the future.

He is sailing like a drunken spender and the edge of the earth is up ahead. He thinks we can only avoid it by going faster.

You little pissants addicted to bright shiney objects that somebody else buys could use a dose of depression. It would teach you humility and teach you that buying things you cannot afford is not such a good idea. You are about to learn that lesson.

A hard rain is going to fall when the progressives realize that they have been used.

And the fun part is the One you worship is going to teach it to you. Sucker.

Strawberry,

What happens when folks can’t afford the healthy steamed veggies and can only afford the $1 drippy cheeseburger? What do we do then?

It’s a vicious cycle. I agree to some extent about having to pay based on your lifestyle but where does that end?

What if I was born into a family history of breast cancer? Do I just have to suck it up and deal b/c those are the breaks?

EWard, you do know that Congress is exempt from their laws do you not?

Imagine if Congress and the white house were unionized. How come they aren’t?

I saw this on Drudge. Un f-ing believable!

Apparently, former NY Lt Gov Betsy McCaughey seconds Uppity Woman.

Oh, did I mention Dow down 300 pts?

And what do the press and the health care lobbyists have to say about this, I wonder? I remember so clearly how these people persecuted the Clintons 16 years ago when the Clintons first tried to reform the system. I remember so clearly how Bill Clinton warned us then that our healthcare system would bankrupt the country. GREED. GREED. GREED.

Here’s a good story about a recent Medicare “reform” implemented immediately after Obama was elected. A Medicare patient can qualify for a bedside commode only if he is restricted to one floor of his residence and there is no bathroom on that floor. Who does that cover? The old folks hidden in the attic or the basement and those with no indoor plumbing. What are the alternatives? Diapers or a 24-hr nurse. Good one…Medicare. Hope! Change!

No you complete idiot [Hey, ALEXIS, dial it down a tad, 'kay? Thanks, Susan We're better than the bozo trolls. Oops, there I did it. Heh. I understand how they can tick you off, but that's what they want. Then they tell everyone how nuts everybody at NoQ is. If we ignore them, they get depressed and wander off to find another place to attack. Actually, if they wanted to be productive, they'd harrass Free Republic.] …no one is saying we should “do nothing” but ignorant scumbags like you, who have never read the Bacon Bill, and have your head up your ignorant azz don’t bother to educate yourselves. You just listen to the con man and buy it. Pathetic fool that you are.

As for your ignorant rants about Republicans, you moron, I’m still a registered Dimocrat. Because I like telling them to go F themselves now when they ask for money.

If you weren’t such an ignorant troll, you would realize that many of us have paid attention, acted like grown ups, read the Bacon Bill and know it’s a crap sandwich. So stop lying. We have never said do nothing…but your troll brain can’t get the fact that we want an appropriate bill, not Pelosi’s socialist revision of America that will sink us even worse.

PS Your boss never read the bill either. Really responsible, huh?

This new board is NOT new…Patti’s right, barry can now publicly do what ins cos and “bought off” docs have been doing for years.

Trust me, I know…I have Lyme disease and the crooked Infectious Disease docs who write the guidelines are Paid Off to keep this disease a 6 week disease.

I’m all for good choices, but I’m also for treating the sick, and so far we’re looking the other way in all age groups, but again it’s children and the elderly who take the hit.

My crystal ball is so opaque, I can’t even write the next sentence.

Thats ok, Obama is clairvoyant. His Economic Stimulus Package (ESP) needs to be passed ASAP so destiny can be fulfilled. Only certified psychics, like Barry and Miss Cleo can see this.

Regarding PBOs possible appointment for head of HHS (known mostly for his health cuts), the AP had this to say on the msnbc site:

“Critics says Gov. Phil Bredesen, D-Tenn., made the biggest cuts in public health insurance in the nation’s history, making him the wrong man to head the Department of Health and Human Services.

Few governors know the pitfalls of soaring health costs better than Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen, which helps explain why President Barack Obama is reportedly considering the Democrat for health secretary.

In 2005, Bredesen cut 170,000 adults from Tennessee’s Medicaid program, called TennCare. He reduced benefits for thousands more.

Critics describe Bredesen’s actions as the biggest cuts in public health insurance in the nation’s history. They believe he’s the wrong person to lead an effort to expand health insurance coverage, and they’re throwing support behind other candidates, including Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, widely viewed as near the top of Obama’s list of candidates to run the Health and Human Services Department.”

Maybe Health-Care Crises Reform = Rationed Health-Care for the Chosen Few

You better believe that most of US are not in the CHOSEN category. I bet there will be lots of “pain-killers” provided to ease the suffering as WE “accept our conditions” and just quietly go off to die.

I think Mr. Hopey Changey has underestimated the “old folks,” we may just have to remind him that none of US are going “quietly into that good night”!!

Your problem, GOP, is that you think that there is still a left/right paradigm. None of the politicos in this mess are any different than the other. It is why you are seeing a continuation of Bush’s policies being carried into Owe-bama/O-Bush-ma/Barack Bushma’s adminstration.

Mr. O or ‘Happy Shiny Unicorn Man’ is carrying on rendition flights; is spending tax dollars like a fiend; is taking a look at closing Gitmo (not closing it – don’t be fooled) while keeping open all other “terrorist” prisons that are in existence; is filling his cabinet with lobbyists – both Demobrat and Repugnican; is attacking the 2nd amendment by banning weapons and will see gun owners turning in exisiting guns and is taking a look at reducing troops in Iraq while increasing them in Afghanistan. He won’t simply remove any troops from either country. Instead, Owe-bama is militarizing your cities’ streets. What’s Posse Comitatus?

No to mention, but I will, 10 states that are now threatening sucession over the 2nd amendment threats and the militarizing of US streets and the possible threat of martial law. Don’t believe me? Google it. It is mainstream news. As much as I hate mainstream corporate news.

There is no left and right any longer, GOP. There is only a bunch of corrupt crooks that have hi-jacked the US constitution and are holding at ransom, your freedoms and liberties for their financial gain. They will succeed in making you a serf while you praise Owe-bama. They are federalizing and socializing your country right in front of you while ammo sales are “shooting” through the roof.

Know that after the stimulus bill has passed, along with more tax money for the banks and after Geithner creates his bad bank, the Fed will monetize treasuries and you will see, and I can promise you this, the devaluation and the collapse of the US dollar in about 9 months to year, if not sooner after foreign investors get wind of it and pull out and sell off what they have left. Think China that hold trillions of US debt.

Praising a god for Barack will quickly be overshadowed when you’re using a wheelbarrel to haul your Weimar dollars to pay for that $10 a gallon gas, $10 loaf of bread and $10 gallon of milk.

Good luck to you, GOP.

And by the way, before you choose to attack me and call me a Repugnican, know that I’m a Canadian and I’m watching very closely, all this from a close distance and I’m very worried as I live in a country whose sees 80% of it’s exports go to the US.

That would be toxic for the fish … if there are any left.

And Reagan and Bush before Owe-bama made the same threats and where have those gotten us? Are you blatantly short-termed, as in ‘memory’?

TARP 1, passed October 1st, 2008, saw the same threats from Pelosi and Gang, where we saw O-Bush-ma lobbying for it’s passage. And what did that do? Let me spell it out for you….NOTHING.

GOP…dumb dumb…We read the crap sandwich bill. It’s a joke. You haven’t read it and don’t care. You are repeating what the snake oil salesman told you to.

No one says do nothing. What we are saying, if you could grow the hell up, is that this isn’t the bill that should pass. It has nothing to do with party idiot. I’m a Dimocrat. It has to do with responsible spending that will help this country. Which the crap sandwich won’t. Like I said, grow the hell up loser.

No. That last phrase was meant for ‘excuses’ It’s a**holes who spin it for their needs.

Actually, it goes like this, just so you know;

“Excuses are like a**holes: everyone’s got one.”

Not sure how opinons can be like a**holes. They stink?

The FDA just restricted many of those “Pain Killers.” Hope & Change: It’s a Cookbook!

First off, “fascism” is, in political terms, an extremist aspect of CONSERVATISM.
No fascist government has ever gotten off the ground without the strong support of corporate and religious interests. Look at how fascists took control of Italy, Germany, Spain, Argentina and Chile (there’s also a very strong military component at work).
Second, anyone who would recommend Goldberg’s second-rate drivel as a “great read” is little better than an Obot. The political views may be different but the mindset is largely the same.
If Goldberg had any REAL talent, he wouldn’t have needed to resort to a Limbaughism for a book title (one that was guaranteed to place his book on the neocon must-read list). The guy got where he is SOLELY because of his family connections.

I hate to sound a contrarian note here but I went over HR1 EH – as well as the other four versions of the bill and couldn’t find most of the information cited. the quotes don’t seem to be really quotes and the ideas ascribed to the document look to me like fairly tortured interpretations of the actual text. While I think it’s bad politics (as usual) to try to push healthcare through on the back of ‘stimulus’ package I don’t think we’re doing ourselves any favors by putting out arguments that aren’t word for word accurate.
I’m open to correction here but I haven’t found the ‘there’ there.

When this country goes into survival mode, and it’s coming, we will see the stuff these basement pissants are made of with nary a penny saved and all those bright shiney objects they can’t even sell.

How far away is the mandatory bio-chip?

Oh yes, the mandatory bio-chip will have four stages.
1–the biochip can be scanned, and contains the subjects info, medical history, personal history, etc.
2–the biochip can transmit information so that the subject can be tracked and located.
3–the biochip can receive transmitted information, for helpful hints on how to do, well, anything . . .
4–the bochip can transmit a helpful little shock to remind the subject that something is not being done correctly.

I don’t want to speculate about stage 5.

Yes. This is the issue that became the last straw for my daughter. Shortly before the election, they attended a funeral of a friend who couldn’t afford further care for cancer; he was already bankrupted by initial medical over and above his insurance and kept trying to work to bring in money. He literally died because he couldn’t afford care. They were so outraged, they said Obama was going to give us preventative care, etc., and provide single payer, blah, blah, blah.

No amount of logic could sway them.

Now…not a year later. Yesterday we moved the 91 year old matriarch of the family into the bedroom just vacated by the 20 y/o in community college. She recovered from a mild heart attack last year but now has had a mini stroke; no paralysis but enough mental confusion and lost ability to speak in complete sentences that she can’t live alone any longer. I will move in next month so there will be someone there all day while they both work.

The Dems would, no doubt, write off services that will allow a speech therapist, a little PT for arthritic pain plus a visiting nurse once a week to monitor her. They may not think her valuable but we will not put her away in a convalescent home to vegetate.

The good side: After living all on our own, we’ll combine resources and probably be able to live on less money and be safer in this horrible financial climate than we would have otherwise. And, so far she’s adapting. She actually seemed a bit more alert and able to communicate better (sign language and scattered words) with the kids and grandsons buzzing around getting her set up with her furniture, etc., though she still thinks I’m my daughters sister. Way to go LuLu!

And damn the Democrats for their lies. Oh yes. There’ll be a backlash.

There’s more than just a biochip. There’s a minute, capsule sized video camera being developed so they can implant it in your head and in real time track where you are, what you are doing, etc. Very scary stuff.

Oh, okay, I’ll speculate about stage 5:

And thus the dream of interconnecting the first functioning cells of the Oborg becomes a feasible possibility . . .

I know it all sounds nasty, but just think! No more spending long laborious hours learning foreign languages, or anything else!

Obama had a list of reporters that he was using to call for the next question. He knew who he was calling on, but was not quite sure where they were seated, so the list was prepared in advance, and anyone thought to have the temerity to ask tough questions was not on the list, and those who were on the list, but asked tough questions anyway, may find their names dropped from the list. When Obama wasn’t delivering scripted speeches or answers, he wasn’t quite the eloquent and polished speaker his adoring bots make him out to be. It won’t be long before Letterman can re-start his “Great Moments in Presidential Speeches” bit again, and we’ll see “Obamaisms” calendars.

Great list of economists who do not agree with the fraud about this stimulus (crap sandwich) bacon bill:

http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/alternate_version.html

Well Alexis, I’m sure glad the government is honest, and bureaucrats aren’t into porn or anything like that . . .

An interesting article about end-of-life health care costs from 2006:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2006-10-18-end-of-life-costs_x.htm

It’s a far more complex issue than “Better Yet, Just Die” suggests.

Personally, I would hate to fall into the clutches of a medical mechanism during my final days totally intent upon keeping me alive as long as possible, regardless of costs, my comfort, my human dignity, or the ease of my passage.

And–like it or not–there’s a trade-off being made when we create a system that does that. Resources are diverted. You wind up with a situation where the same system prolonging painful, hopeless situations doesn’t provide adequate care to some kids with asthma. Maybe they die young when their deaths were entirely preventable.

I suppose it’s all about balance.

Great post UW, thank you.

Yes, apparently that was one thing Ted Kennedy wasn’t happy with from his niece. She let the cat out of the bag on his health, that he isn’t getting better. And no doubt he is working on his “treatment plan” in Florida as he “gets needed rest”.

Good for you. My sister and I took my mother in when her house got too much for her (mid eighties) and she alternated between us until she died. Homes are cruel and terrible. I’m sure our arrangement gave our mother an additional 5 years – and they were happy ones surrounded by her family.

Craig…Did you read all of Uppity’s post? I thought she quoted the exact pages from HR1?

You have no right to decide that for other people, nor does that asshole Obama. I kept my father alive as long as I could before he died of cancer. And, trust me, if anyone pulls this crap on my mother they will have hell to pay. Get a backbone.

The little video camera has interesting applications as far as criminals. For instance, if you can get the last 15 minutes of a kidnapper’s life, and he never told anyone where he stashed the kid before the FBI shot and killed him, that tape can be run and they can save the kid. Crap like that. But, it’s really intrusive and a scary thing to think about in a civilian.

I suppose it’s all about balance.

So let’s get rid of the “hopeless” so we can spend more money on those who have hope? (There’s that “hope” word again.) From another perspective, we’re all “hopeless,” we’re all going to die, even the young and healthy. Who decides whom and what is “hopeless”? More bluntly, how do we decide when and whom to euthanize?

It’s disgraceful to even talk like this. Who do these wingbats think they are to decide who should live or die? I’m so glad the left is making these big, massive, major screw ups. Nothing is going to be able to save this trash in 2010 and 2012. Nothing. They’re finished.

As I said, I went to the pages she cites and either found that the quotes were inaccurate or that the paraphrasing went pretty far afield from what was actually on the page.

I think that, in order for us to have any real effect on this, we have to have the facts stone cold accurate when we make the charge – and I’m just not seeing it here.

Okay, Craig, fine. Then might you paraphrase what you think the intent was?

Blunt
Thank you–these obots have no idea about anything, especially that their fake president voted for Tarp I in October and many other Bush policies, Fisa, funding for the Iraq war, etc. When will these brainless robots self destruct or something?

Linda Too

If Obama’s plans for health care rationing goes through, Kennedy wouldn’t be in Florida for treatment. He would be told to go home.

I’m sure someone’s already mentioned this, but with automated medical records, someone like Fraudo could never be elected. They’d have proof of his birth somewhere.

It’s brutal. It puts us into the realm of some very horrifying social science fiction novels.

And the bad news is that, again, wealthy people can go elsewhere or buy the best medical care. That’s why Obama doesn’t care. Because he and his elitist piece of crap friends won’t suffer ever.

I can’t even believe we’re having this conversation in the first place. And even worse some of the Obots here actually supporting this crap. Boy is my blood boiling. Like I said, try it on my mother scumbags. You’ll see how well your socialized crappy medicine works. Every day we all come here, doesn’t it get more and more surreal, and, yes like some goddamned Arthur C. Clarke novel?

Uppity Woman

Didn’t know that Congress was exempted from these laws. We will just have to change that rule…..

Memo to Obama and the Dems – you work for us…

Only three weeks in office and BO and Dems have proposed to bankrupt our economy and ration our health care.

Impeachment hearings coming soon…..

Please, please EWard be right. The Impeachment of Pelosi, Obama and Reid is the only way to save America.

PS I think we should also Impeach SCOTUS and after we get rid of them check their bank statements for large amounts deposited from Pelosi’s personal checking account.

This A.M. on C-Span many callers who had heard about the health amendment in the stmulus called in outraged and asking why the MSM hasn’t been reading the bill. The reporter from Rollcall who is supposed to know about everything happening on the hill admitted she hadn’t heard about this issue and the moderator said we’ll have to find that. Now if that isn’t bad enough with journalists not even reading this trillion dollar blackhole of a package, two Senators on Fox later in the morning ONE hour before the vote, specter and a Democrat(can’t remember his name)told the Fox reporter that “if that was the language in the bill they would have to review it.” Then the reporter asked if they had even read the bill and shouldn;t they know what’s in it before the vote?” So people the politicians on the hill have not read this and that’s why BO could lie like crazy last night. His references to bringing education into the 21st century means one thing to indoctrinate our young people. Notice how he always seems to come back to that. I called my Congressman and Senators this morning to relate my disgust for what is happening. I believe that a huge majority think the whole thing stinks but you’d never know it with what the cowards are doing on Capitol Hill.

I hope to never see a doctor. I haven’t had health insurance in 20 years. I have no medical problems, take no medications. Everyone I know with health insurance takes all of these medications and have all these “procedures” (code word for surgeries I guess), I mean they live for this stuff. I believe in reincarnation, so I am not afraid of death. I do not want to be resuscitated; do not call 911. Let me go. I will never be in their automated system cause I wont go to their doctors. I do alternative care. have cured myself of pretty much everything I have needed cured. And if I can’t cure it, then it either goes away by itself or I die. That’s my take on it and I have a very happy fruitful life. Amen. (ps. I’m 62 years old).

When the cost for goods produced on American farms by American labor at “living wage” rates exceeds what the public is willing or able to spend or exceeds the cost of imported fruits and vegetables, then all of the fruits and vegetables consumed in this country will be grown and harvested abroad (a significant percentage already comes from abroad, the farms will become theme/water parks or mega-prisons, and the farmers will be joining the ranks of the landless and unemployed (or they can work for the private prison system, just about the only growth industry in this country today.) While harvesting crops should not be done by undocumented immigrants, there should be an alternative system or program in place to provide temporary or seasonal labor that is more responsive (flexible and changeable)to the economic needs of the U.S.

If this were after his system is implemented and Kennedy didn’t have his own funds to play with, you might be able to say that.

No, Americans should pick the lettuce. Period. It’s better than having everyone on welfare.

To err is human. Real foul ups require a computer.

Computers are only as good as the information manually enterred in to them. I remember years ago how Mayo Clinic had computer problems and dumped my records. All that history, gone. Couldn’t tell me any of my many past test results, etc.

They put in what they want, and what Doctors records have been cleared of.

Mountain Girl, I had the same health as you up until 2 years ago; then I couldn’t even dress myself out of nowhere. Nothing I could do would stop the “stigmata” type pain in the hands and feet. I lost a lot of weight, was exhausted, and became desperate because of the pain. I do not take but one prescription for this, which is an old chemotherapy drug from the late 30′s; anything less than the pain I was feeling is livable. All of us are not i the same boy, and there are some diseases, you will not be able to predict, nor control with the best of visualizations, reiki or acupuncture, or prayers. I tried. Health sometimes is not a choice, it is a state that is either providing a good quality of life or one that can make every waking moment misery. I considered the alternative to living on medication in order to be able to move, but knew my limits in regard to pain; you come out of it on the other side with a very different perspective and new found respect for wanting to continue one. People try the best they know how, but sometimes there isn’t an alternative treatment that will help; and we still want to live, in a decent fashion, to love and enjoy all we can. It is at the very least confusing, in some ways feeling selfish and in other ways, simply not wanting to suffer. Mostly, it is not something that any two people ever experience or handle the same, although we try.

The comments above suggest you’re all completely missing the point. I’m talking about the realities of finite healthcare resources and the difficult decisions they pose, while you’re fixating on some weird notion that I’ve just suggested abandoning old people out on the ice flow.

Life and all of its important moral issues are vastly more complex than that. When people try to over-simplify moral issues down to it’s-either-black-or-white-with-nothing-in-between, some fairly terrible consequences invariably ensue.

Such people eventually get around to depriving others of the choices and the broader range of personal options that they disapprove of for themselves.

The problem here is that you’re making an appeal to reason.

Consider the mischaracterization of Obama’s support years back of an Illinois State Senate bill that include a provision to make children aware of sexual predators. Essentially, this came down to informing children that inappropriate behavior should be reported to a parent or trusted adult. The message would be conveyed at school, in an entirely age-sensitive manner, and any parent who objected would have had the right to opt their own child out.

This was distorted and turned into a long-running political attack, in the form of an assertion that Obama had tried to force graphic information about sexual perversions onto innocent children. It was even the subject of a nationally broadcast republican attack ad during the presidential campaign.

It didn’t help to calmly explain the truth, nor to post actual text from the bill.

Some people believe what they want and what’s supportive of their own world view. An appreciation for the actual truth simply doesn’t enter into their thinking.

Suggest they might be incorrect, and you become The Enemy.

BTW… I have elderly relatives whom I love dearly, and am not that far off from being old myself.

AlexisM:

You are getting some of what you wish, courtesy of the tanking economy:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-farm10-2009feb10,0,305607.story

This doesn’t obviate the need for rational immigration legislation, but when the labor costs rise to a certain level, then automating or closing down operations (and importing produce from abroad) become the alternatives.

Thank you so much for posting this! Had no idea!

By the way, this month’s Harper’s has a cover story called “ObamaCare” describing this futuristic computerized healthcare big brother utopia in which we interact with very few doctors, but the government/healthcare databases mine our tests and alert us when we’re sick. A company in California is developing it. I couldn’t figure out why they called it “ObamaCare” until reading Uppity’s article here. It all makes sense.

Dang – I’m not a subscriber but I think this is the article Sick in The Head. But go out and buy the magazine (Harper’s Feb 2009) it will FREAK YOU OUT.

So you haven’t read the book then. If you had it would disprove all of your above drivel.

I am not a fanatic on either side. I am rather open minded. It was like I said an interesting read. You however appear to be QUITE opinionated and lop-sided at that.

TD Blog has a follow up:

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/obama-please-post-the-health-care-plan-for-5-days-of-public-commentary-as-you-promised/

While harvesting crops should not be done by undocumented immigrants, there should be an alternative system or program in place to provide temporary or seasonal labor that is more responsive (flexible and changeable)to the economic needs of the U.S.

How about teenagers? Young, healthy and supported by parents. They can earn their spending money by harvesting crops. I used to earn money when I was too young to get a work permit(needed in VA at the time to work if you were a minor), picking apples and grapes at a local orchard/vineyard. It was hard work, and boring too, but I really felt like I had earned the right to spend that money. Then later, when I was old enough, I got a job behind a drug store fountain counter, and then at a dry cleaners for minimum wage, but my first job was picking apples and grapes for a dollar an hour. Minimum wage was just over $2 at the time. Just stick an Ipod on them and let them pick lettuce, and vegetables. Let them find out what it takes to earn a dollar the hard way. They will not only get an appreciation for money and what it takes to earn it, they will also get an appreciation of what it takes for the farmers to get food to their tables.

When they have to stop the bi-monthly nail appointments and “highlights”, they are going to be sooooo put out. I can just hear the foot-stomping now.

I agree with you on this one. When I was in college in Nebraska, I walked beans for spending money. It was hard work but I got to know a lot of the farmers and actually made a few friends along the way. As an added bonus, I can also wield a mean machete.

Huge potential for abuse.
My guess is it’s so that insurance companies can not insure or cancel ur @$$.

There is no such thing as ‘secure’ when it comes to info. Just ask the thousands of service members and their families who have had their health info stolen.

Hey, remember when that gal took home a disk w/ personnel info on it? Sure, nothing happened to it…

Yeah, the gov. does such a wonderful job w/ Medicare – I just really need them all up in my bizness.

And, it was the Dems who did up that Bill to have newborns DNA extrapolated and screened.

WTF?!

It is not up to the people doing the care, it is up to the patient. My father just died this past December, of kidney failure. He was a few days shy of his 86th birthday. He was told that dialysis would give him a longer life. He refused it. He said that he had outlived all his friends, and most of his family, he missed my mother who died in 2006 and saw no reason to prolong a rich and varied life with artificial means, even though dialysis can hardly be called “heroic” means. We didn’t argue with him, it was his decision. I did ask him, as the eldest child, if he was sure that is what he wanted. He said yes, it was. And that was the end of it. He lived for a year and a half after making that decision. His quality of life was as good as his children, mostly my youngest sister, and his caretakers could make it. I agreed with his decision, although part of me wishes he hadn’t made it and that he was still here. But it was his life, and he decided to take the road of non-intervention. He was on a diet and medication to keep him comfortable, but that’s all. But the bottom line is that it was HIS DECISION. No one else decided for him, and certainly not some bureaucrat in Washington, DC.

Kennedy must think the rest of the country is composed of idiots. Anyone can google his particular cancer and see that the chances of surviving it are basically nil. So Caroline let it slip..we all knew it anyway. He should be resigning and setting up a decent replacement, not hanging on until death while he does nothing in the Senate. Even lions get old and toothless. And when they do, they die.

Neither Barry nor Miss Cleo is a Certified Psychic ® .

Excellent observation.

Let’s start with women who have litters. When we aren’t over breeding we don’t have to worry about maintaining 14 freaking kids …. maybe it’s just me? She sues the state? Uses the $100,000 as an investment to bear the dependents and then sits on her ass and collects? Better we honor our elders.

Personally, I would hate to fall into the clutches of a medical mechanism during my final days totally intent upon keeping me alive as long as possible, regardless of costs, my comfort, my human dignity, or the ease of my passage.

I gave up my moved back to the state of my birth to look after my mother. She had insurance of her own and didn’t need one F*cking thing from the state. It was my pleasure to be with her until the end. 94. And all she needed was a couple of pills and oxygen. So what do you think the state wants to take? The oxygen? Or the pills? She gave this country 26 descendants who are (except for the grandchildren and great and great great grandchildren) productive and tax paying.

Maybe I should move to Japan. I thought we won the war? Maybe I was mistaken ….

Good luck Anne!

I think I have a plan for everyone. We just have to be a little flexible. If things get really bad I plan to see if my dog’s vet will treat me. Hey, this could work. I can wag my tail with the best of them. Just a thought.

He didn’t go to see his mother near the end and didn’t even attend his grand mother’s funeral. The man is a monster.

Well there is always that and animals are well with one shot, noticed that they always seem to get better quicker than any Dr visit.
Takes a week for tablets to get in the system.

One shot and you will be wagging like a good un~~

The link to a Bloomberg News article was provided by someone yesterday about this part of the spending bill and I have emailed it to everyone I know. What makes me so angry, is the lack of discussion and transparency. Did the authors of this legislation believe the public wouldn’t be interested and have a right to know? This impacts everyone directly except those with enough money they don’t have to worry about health care. There have been many comparisons between our present situation and Orwell’s 1984, but this is more like Soylent Green. For anyone who has not seen this old movie, it is about a time in the future when the earth is so crowded and food so scarce, when an individual reaches a certain age they are murdered and their flesh turned into food for the younger population.

Katmoon, I realilze we all have our own lives and experiences and I do not tell anyone else how to live their lives. I also know that I do not have any idea how I will react until something actually happens. So, I am horrified by this bill that chooses to select people as more or less worthwhile based on their age. We, the baby boomers, have supported and taken care of those older than us and younger than us, and now that we are reaching an age where we may need to be taken care of, we are being abandoned. I take care of myself. I don’t expect anyone to take of me. But, we deserve some respect from all of those who receive the care they receive because of us.

75% 0f the people in this country are centrists. Let`s screw all of the wing nuts. We`ve already got the PUMA party.Don`t quit now. It`s a slam dunk! I`m over this BS from both sides. There`s no more Democrat party, it`s the progressive party. We`ve got to get organized. There`s no time left to lose. Let`s stop fighting about petty things. Our country is at stake. Let`s take it back! Hold your nose and convince moderate repubs to join forces with you. Leave the wing nuts to themselves. We are the majority.

Read This Perfect Day by Ira Levin. It is all there. A utopian global society where people wear their RFID chips which monitor everywhere they go and everyone is killed off at 62.

Doesn’t this all tie in nicely to Kissinger and Bilderberg’s “useless eater” theory?

Now we know: Under Obama, Soylent Green is people.

Did I miss something? My mother worked all her life and Medicare payments were taken out of every paycheck. When she was sixty five, she bought a supplement policy and five years later, she got cancer. I took care of her and I know she woke up every morning grateful for the day until the day she died. Medicare didn’t pay for all the chemotherapy and neither did her supplement. If some anonymous entity in the government had decided her care wasn’t cost effective, she would have suffered more and died sooner. She had time to put her things in order and make peace with her impending death and I was grateful for everyday I had with her too. If others make a decision to refuse terminal care or life extending measures, I have no problem with that, but it has to be a choice. Some thirty or forty year old bureaucrat who isn’t facing the end of life should not be allowed to make that decision.

Strawberry, health care is not a gift from the government. It is something we pay for when we work and recieve a paycheck. To invite the government to make lifestyle choices for citizens is a dangerous road to travel. It is now possible through DNA testing to isolate genes which cause many diseases so will we allow the government to decide who will be allowed to have treatment because it’s not cost effective and we are living in a fool’s world if we think that can’t happen. Automoblie accidents caused by drunk drivers cause almost 15,000 deaths/yr and more die from health problems related to drinking so we have to add alcholics to the list of those who can be passed by for treatment or pay more for insurance. STD can cause long term health problems due to unprotected sex and what about extreme sport accidents which can cause a lifetime of paralysis or brain damage?

word, beebop.

My concern about the Obosi Porkulus Spending Bill is extreme, but the part that has me in extremis is the National Health Care provision. It is all-encompassing and all-controlling, giving government the authority to determine whether, by financial analysis, a person meets a cost-benefit ratio for receiving care! So, they can cull the newborn part of the population by unfettered access to abortion, even in a foreign land, and cull the aging part of the population by subjecting them to a means test to receive care. This is inhuman and un-American in every way! But that is not even my most immediate horror.

You are probably aware by now that about a year ago Tom Dashle wrote a book, I suppose in anticipation of being placed as HHS by whichever Democrat got elected. Well, he disgraced himself and had to bow out, thank God for America. However, in his book he stated he would advise the next president to put national health care inside a budget bill so that it could be passed without discussion and basically outside the knowledge of the American citizen. This is exactly what has happened!

How could representatives of the people betray them in such a heavy-handed fashion? Nearly all of Congress is duplicitous. The wording of the provision is completely alarming, including “every person in the United States,” not even every CITIZEN of the United States. And if it doesn’t say citizen, it doesn’t mean citizen. Any person, legal or illegal, who parks his butt in this country is entitled to these benefits! We can’t pay for this! We can’t pay for any of it! What even happened to Obama’s promise that those with insurance could keep it???? Communists are putting a stranglehold on America from within the Congress and the federal government. HELP US! STAND UP! Pressure the turncoat RINOs who voted for the Senate bill (I’ve written all of them myself) and every blue-dog and moderate Democrat who will listen! National Health Care needs to be taken up as a separate bill, not slipped in as a pig in a poke! And it is a pig.

PLEASE READ IN WASHINGTON POST KATHLEEN PARKER’S EXCELLENT POST:

“OBAMA IN THE SHALLOWS”—it tells it like it is about BoBo’s IMMATURITY and LACK OF JUDGMENT to be Prez! Now isn’t this what the folks @ No Quarter have been saying for over a year, eh?!!!

Stimulus Package…

Washington insider leaks what tax payers will receive from Obama\’s stimulus package!…

Crap like this is what is going to be Obama’s downfall. I fear to say he will probably end up like JFK.

[...] Did you know the "BILL" will cut back health care for the oldest and sickest? http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/02… [...]