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“Savior-Based Economy”?

By Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy on February 10, 2009 at 4:00 PM in Bamboozling, Barack Obama, Breaking News, Current Affairs, Democrats, Earmarks, Economic Stimulus, Economy, Harry Reid, Health Care, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, South Carolina, TARP, Tax stimulus package, Tom Daschle

So says my governor, Mark Sanford, of SC in this interview with John King on CNN (MAJOR H/T to SusanUnPC at No Quarter for this story):

A “Savior-based” economy. Well, Heaven knows, Obama has certainly been set up as The Messiah, so it makes sense that this would be the kind of economy he would want. Ahem. (If you want to read the text of Gov. Sanford’s interview, please click HERE.) Bear in mind that SC has a very high unemployment rate right now, so we most definitely have a horse in this race. Gov. Sanford is not being a PollyAnna here. Rather than continue the band-aide mentality and prolong the agony like Japan did, Gov. Sanford wants to deal with the issues up front. The recovery would come sooner through the natural course of events (a bit of Darwinism, if you will), rather than prolonging it by continuing with the Stimulus Package that doesn’t do enough for job creation. It is an interesting take by the governor.

And another Southerner has spoken up, too. Rep. Heath Shuler, former NFL quarterback who is in his second term, represents the Western part of NC. And he supported Hillary Clinton for president. Well, he is taking Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to task for their “failed leadership” in drafting this stimulus package. He claims they have failed by not engaging in a bi-partisan manner in detailing this package. He said in this AP article:

“In order for us to get the confidence of America, it has to be done in a bipartisan way,” Shuler said in Raleigh following an economic forum. “We have to have everyone – Democrats and Republicans standing on the stage with the administration – saying ‘We got something done that was efficient, stimulative and timely.’”

He continued:

“I truly feel that’s where maybe House leadership and Senate leadership have really failed,” Shuler said.

Wow. A Democrat who actually cares about fulfilling the promises made by Obama (though honestly – why did anyone believe him? There were NUMEROUS examples of Obama failing to work across the aisle during his exceedingly brief time in the Senate, unlike, say, CLINTON, who did actually work in a bi-partisan manner.).

Oh, and get this – Shuler thinks the package should actually be about job creation through infrastructure spending, though he was very concerned about the amount of debt the current package would create. Huh. What a concept. Shame that didn’t occur to any of these other bozos who allegedly represent us.

And I am sure you have heard by now about what else has been hidden in this package. Oh, this is a DOOZY. Seems there were some, um, INTERESTING little health care tidbits in the package the Senate is trying to ram through. Turns out there are three very odd components in there: 1. ration health care for senior citizens; 2. limit medical research; and 3. and monitoring doctors’ treatment decisions. You should hear the hooey being spewed by some of the senators I have seen today on how stuff like this got in there, and how they didn’t know if it was really there or not BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T HAD TIME TO READ IT ALL!!!! Yet, they are VOTING on it this morning! As I have previously reported, there is all KINDS of pork built into this package, and now this on health care. Reports are that Tom Daschle got these items put in – which begs the question, HOW? He is not an elected official, and I am pretty sure he had already canned himself for the Health and Human Services job because he, too, is a tax evader (on a MASSIVE scale). Here is Megyn Kelly talking to Senator Arlen Specter about this add-in:

So, how did it get in there, then??? And, how are we to know if it is taken out? Since, as Senator Specter kept saying, this package is hundreds and hundreds of pages long, it seems to me that maybe, just MAYBE, SOMEONE could have taken the time to read the damn thing before they decided to vote on it. Oh, but that would mean “CATASTROPHE!!!!” to the country for them to actually take a day or two for them to have committee meetings and know what the hell is in there. How could I forget?? Pathetic. What a pathetic bunch of legislators they are. And Specter should be ashamed of himself for keeping his “commitment” to pass this package. His “commitment” SHOULD be to the people of the country. Funny how these senators and representatives keep forgetting that…

On a different note, wild fires continue to rage in Australia in an area beset with drought for a decade. Now they believe the fires were the work of an arsonist. Sadly, almost 200 people have died, some in the most horrific ways imaginable (trapped in their cars). Many people have lost their homes in these fires. It is a senseless tragedy, and if I may, let us just take a moment and remember that we are all connected. Even in the midst of the frustrations with our political leaders, our own economic or health concerns, let us remember that others are suffering, too, or have lost their lives, through no fault of their own. Rather, through an act, deliberate in nature, that has affected so many. And continues to do so, with thousands of firefighters working to squelch these flames. We are, all of us, connected.

My thoughts and prayers go out for those lost, and for those who have lost so much…May these fires be contained quickly, and with no more loss of life…

http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com/ obamastolemyboyfriend

I’m with Mark sanford. This will be painful if we do nothing, but we are talking years and years of painful if we waste all this money! No stimulus. Just say no. Where is Hillary? She needs to tell us what she would do. Let businesses fail and then reorganize. That is the real solution. Otherwise it is a viscious cycle of bailouts until there is no money left and/or the Chinese call us on the loans!

cynic

Hillary Clinton, our trusted Secretary of State, is preparing for a trip to Asia, where she will discuss with Asian leaders how best to deal with the threat to world peace posed by North Korea. I suspect global economic problems are not making that dangerous situation any less so.

Ferd Berfle

I suspect global economic problems are not making that dangerous situation any less so.

And it is good she is going and not some other appointee of That One.

Judy L. NC

“Savior-based” from you of all people, Amy….blasphemy. I know it’s snark but it makes me sick to see it in bold headlines.

Also, wanted to add once again that Heath Shuler bears watching. Just think. He is an attractive young legislator who opposed a presidential bum’s rush and who will be proved right while every other politician buckled to the bully pulpit and didn’t have time to read the fine print. Deja vu all over again.

All of us are appalled by the destruction in Australia. AOL has a photo showing a refuge koala bear being fed with a bottle. Poor people. Poor animals.

http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

Hey, just quoting Gov. Sanford! His words, not mine.

I agree abt Shuler. And, he was a stalwart supporter of Clinton’s. He said that he would vote the way his constituents voted, and they voted for her. He was not going to be swayed by the schizophrenic message of the Obama camp (that is, one could only vote the way one’s constituents voted if it was for OBAMA. If it was for Hillary, they had to vote for Obama.).

And oowawa, that Megyn is really something. The first time I saw her, I just assumed she was picked because she’s a cute blonde. No. She is also an attorney, and practiced law for 8 yrs.

oowawa

Wow. Megyn Kelly–a tigress. I pity the fool who goes into an interview with her assuming she is an empty-headed blonde.

Chicago Joe

Several of the female anchors on Fox are attorneys. I used to boycott Fox in the Bush era, but they are now my only TV refuge. Lots of smart anchors…who knew?

Ferd Berfle

For sure. I still dislike it when they play down Bush’s boneheaded, bush-league mistakes. All in all, though, I prefer that organization to any other in the US.

Winston

LOL oowawa. I saw Megyn Kelly take apart some college professor who was defending Bill Ayers. She sure took him to school. The man looked like someone just stole his lunch money, he was almost in tears.

bert

Excellent post, RRRA. I think Gov. Sanford is correct. Trying to prolong the inevitable is what made Japan suffer so long – 10 years in fact. The market can correct itself if we give it time. It will be painful and hard. But in some ways we just have to ride this thing out and not make it worse with stupid pork-filled bills. That is what Peter Schiff says as well. He was the only pundit saying the housing bubble would crash and that Fannie and Freddie were riping us off. And he was wildly riducled for his predictions.

As for Megan Kelly, she is one tough lady. One of the pleasures of not watching other news channels last fall during the campaign was discovering this intelligent, ballsy lady. She is great and gives no quarter.

I am keeping Australia in my prayers.

Jaycephus

Japan did everything we’ve been doing and are now planning to do: Stimulus, Fed manipulation, TARP, funds to bail-out zombie companies, etc., and they’ve only prolonged their misery.

WE’VE BEEN over-stimulating the economy here for the last eight years. Interest rate manipulation, stimulus packages, tax-cuts, AND deficit spending. HOW is MORE of that going to snap us out of this recession when we went into this recession by practicing the exact same stuff we’re trying to do now to end it.

The truth is that the manipulations screw up markets, cause over-investment in the wrong areas, and inevitably lead to recession.

We don’t have a stimulus-deficiency disease. We have an over-stimulus problem. We DON’T have a spending-deficiency problem, we have an OVER-spending problem that must be corrected.

tek

Amy: So glad to hear that someone is taking the one to task. I wish Hillary (and Bill) could tell us what to do, but of course, Hillary wasn’t elected and Bill is a racist.

I knew we needed the Clintons at this time in the country’s history. What a shame.
candymarl

What I’m getting from the reporter’s in this segment is: “Who cares about the long-term consequences? Pay us now.”

That’s the same attitude of the previous administration that so many liberals and progressives decried.

The bill must be paid sometime.

But I notice the media is focusing on the payouts but not the cost of repayment. The same thing that most of us on the left and in the media chastised Bush for.

Where is this money coming from? No one is talking about fiscal responsibility or balanced budgets now.

When Bush did this he was ‘throwing money at the problem’. Bush was ‘driving the deficit through the roof’. I remember we Democrats talking about how generations to come would have to pay the bill. Suddenly, none of that is important.
I’m a Linda too

Lets not forget, Nancy Pelosi promised and DID get back to work right after the election to start working on this Stimulus bill.

This Stimulus bill Obama had been talking about since before the election.

This stimulus bill put together by Obama’s people and Pelosi and Reid. AND, Obama had been getting input to put these policies in place as he was having weekly conference calls with his donors. So Daschle was making deals to get Obama elected in the Senate and House and giving his input, as all key advisers were, on what to do.

Obama has a lot of paybacks to give at the taxpayers expense. All those industries that pushed and promoted him. Remember the early days of the Auto Industry? Obama was promising all sorts of goodies including helping pay for the auto industries health care. He was too young to remember apparently how the Auto industry originally opposed health care for all, but now is crying for it. But still, they are no better than ayone else in this country.

The list goes on. Pharma, INsurance, Wall Street, Hedge Funds, Finance, COAL, COAL COAL and Nuclear, technology….oh, the list goes on.
sowsear

Seems there were some, um, INTERESTING little health care tidbits in the package the Senate is trying to ram through. Turns out there are three very odd components in there: 1. ration health care for senior citizens; 2. limit medical research; and 3. and monitoring doctors’ treatment decisions
————————————-
So is there a snowballs chance in hell of having any of this rescinded when the bills are merged?
Donna Brazile

I want to know, how much money are these stupid trips to IN and FL COSTING the taxpayers?

For every trip That One takes on AF-1, requires another 747 to fly as a decoy plane. How much to make one of these post election campaign stops??????

Stop the lovefest and start asking questions!

Donna Brazile

oops, I meant to say it requires

http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com/ obamastolemyboyfriend

I prefer we leave the free market system take care of itself, but if they push this load of crap, Obama will be forever blamed for the consequences. I can live with that. I don’t know why in hell he wants his name on that thing.

lark

I think we are looking in the face of a melt-down of our economic system due to an amateur style gov. intervention.
Jaycephus

He’s a True Believer in the “Government Spending Stimulates the Economy” cult. He really thinks just spending this money on literally anything at all is ‘stimulus’ that will create a new golden age in our economy.

candymarl

I’ve read where several of the companies that received bailouts are planning to move overseas. Oh they will keep their American workers – provided they’re willing to move to said country where the new company will be located.

A money drain and a brain drain.
Bazooka

Another lame post blasting the stimulus bill with not much real analysis.

Great, a right-wing SC nut governor, who represents a very small minority view is quoted. There are very few people that know what they are talking about that are saying what Sanford is saying, that we should do nothing.

He is as hardcore small government as they come. The rest of the planet believes there is a role for government and this guy says just let the recession spin down down down and do nothing. A very extreme view and a very risky one. Republican failed economics at its best. Sanford and his party caused this problem and where was his anger when Bush was running up $4-5 trillion deficit?

What will the cost be to doing nothing? Potentially a much longer prolonged downturn.

Heath Shulers comments are pretty ridiculous as well. There was a huge outreach to the Republicans to help put together an economic recovery bill. The Republicans have had an enormous ability to get involved. And in the end the final deal was hammered out with three moderate Republicans. Seems like they chased all the moderates out of the Republican party or they were voted out and now all we have is this collection of right-wing nuts led by limbaugh.

The Democrats even put tax cuts in there, which is largely based on Republican ideas.

The vast majority of this bill is for very good infrastructure spending. Easy to cherry pick a few things, but that is only a small part of the package. So what if the dems want to sneak of few things in there that they feel are a priority? Good for them.

Screw-The-DNC

Wow Bazooka, I think you need to reload after that last misfire …

In case you forgot, the Dems have been in charge of Congress for the last two years and did SQUAT to stop our slide into financial meltdown. They were just so happy to finally be getting their share from the trough. Oink Oink Oink.

Shuler’s comments at the time were directed to the lockout of the Repub’s in the House version of the bill. The 3 moderate Repubs you cite were in the Senate, and they did a slightly successful job of reigning in some of the BS spending crap that had been thrown into the bill. His point remains accurate and sincere – both parties should be at the table to put forth the best bill for US, the taxpaying public who will be indebted and enslaved to this bill for the rest of our natural lives (and likely into the hereafter).

Obama was supposed to BREAK THE CYCLE of politics as usual, remember? Hope and CHANGE, remember? He has done nothing to stop Pelosi and Reid from playing one-party politics, but is trying to browbeat Congress and the public into accepting that this bill is in our best interest and requires IMMEDIATE action to prevent economic meltdown. News flash – we’re already in meltdown, and a rushed bill containing a staggering amount of waste and not-so-subtle payoffs.

I, for one, call BULLSHIT! And in case you haven’t noticed, I am not alone. The majority of the public does not want the “stimulus” bill. Over 100 leading economists took out a full-page ad in the NY Times to oppose the bill, and have since been joined by 200 more.

So where’s your analysis of the merits of the “vast majority” bill? And why aren’t YOU pissed off about the pork that’s being added?

Winston

Wow. Good Reply. Facts are stubborn things.

http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

Yes, indeed they are, Winston! Great reply, Screw, and Sonic!

Seems the market isn’t too keen on this “stimulus” package, either. Oh, wait – more of those pesky facts…

Bazooka

the market was down today becaue there was not the details in the geitner plan that was expected. nothing to do with stimulus. i can’t believe you are featured blogger on this site. the ignorance of your analysis is astonding…

Jaycephus

I love it when someone tells me why the market was up or down. It removes all doubt that they might actually have a clue and prevents me from wrongly putting any trust in anything they might have to say in the future.

Bazooka

this person’s “facts” are a joke.. see my reply below. this “screw-the-dnc” person cannot even get the polling info right.

screw the republicans… the public is beginning to see through their political games.. seeing that they just want the stimulus to fail and the economy to go down so they can blame obama… good luck with that strategy. end of the day the public knows obama was handed a shit sandwich by the republicans and he is trying to do something about it. polling also suggests that the majority 75% of people think he has tried to reach out to the republicans… as i said people are beginning to see through the republican BS

Screw-The-DNC

By TIM PARADIS, AP

Geithner’s speech “basically puts a spotlight on the fact that the government has no idea how to fix the problem,” said Jeff Buetow, senior portfolio manager at Portfolio Management Consultants. “People bought on rumor and hope, and now they’re selling on reality.”

Investors focused on the financial rescue showed little reaction to the Senate’s approval of its $838 billion economic stimulus package. The bill must now be reconciled with an $819 billion version passed by the House. Congressional leaders hope to have the bill on President Barack Obama’s desk before a recess next week.

“The economy is in deep trouble. The stimulus plan is not very stimulative. It’s not addressing the real problem,” Buetow said. “We have an insolvent financial system. The government is trying to find a comprehensive way to save it. They can’t afford to just throw money at it. That’s what they tried to do in the fall and that clearly did not work.”

Did you catch the FACTS in this analysis Bazooka-lama-ding-dong?? The market saw nothing in the supposed stimulus bill that gave them any hope for improvement.

And poll results? Which poll? What day? How about this latest from Rasmussen:

62% Want Stimulus Plan to Have More Tax Cuts, Less Spending – Monday, February 09, 2009

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/february_2009/62_want_stimulus_plan_to_have_more_tax_cuts_less_spending

With the Senate poised to vote Tuesday on an $827-billion version of the economic recovery plan, 62% of U.S. voters want the plan to include more tax cuts and less government spending.

Just 14% would like to move in the opposite direction with more government spending and fewer tax cuts, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Twenty percent (20%) would be happy to pass it pretty much as is, and five percent (5%) are not sure.

Republicans and unaffiliated voters overwhelmingly want to see more tax cuts and less government spending. Democrats are more evenly divided: 42% agree with the Republicans, 32% want to pass the plan as is, and 22% would like to see more government spending and fewer tax cuts.

Most conservative and moderate voters want to see more tax cuts. A plurality of liberals say the plan should be passed pretty much as it is.

An analysis by Scott Rasmussen notes that the stimulus debate is now driven by a tug-of-war between the popularity of President Obama and the nation’s deeply ingrained reluctance to increase government spending. Forty-eight percent (48%) of voters believe that increased spending is generally bad for the economy. On the other hand, 57% say tax cuts are generally good for the economy.

Overall, 37% of voters favor the stimulus plan and 43% are opposed. Most of those who are undecided have a favorable opinion of the new president and are likely to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And frankly, I don’t give a damn about the ratings Obama is getting on “cooperating with Repubs” because if you will remember from your high school Social Studies class last year, it is Congress who drafts legislation, and Pelosi and Reid have shown little true effort to cooperate in a bipartisan fashion.

And before you go telling me how the Repubs were invited to meetings, save us all the effort to read more of that blather. They wanted Repub input just as much as I want them spending my hard earned tax dollars with their favorite kickback programs.

Pick a fact, any fact … just put some in your next post or go to bed already. It’s a school day tomorrow and you should get some rest.

Bazooka

A poll that says people would rather have tax cuts.. Big deal. Of course people are going to say that, nobody likes to pay taxes.

But that does not mean it is right!

Tax cuts are a waste of time to stimulate the economy. See this:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2009/02/12200_house_gop_stimulus_tax_cuts_crs.html

Sixty-seven percent of the American people approve of how President Obama’s handling his efforts to pass an economic stimulus bill, as opposed to 48% for Democrats in Congress and 31% for congressional Republicans.”

In addition, the disapproval rating for Congressional Republicans remains a “staggeringly high” 58%. And the public continues to view the package as a matter of paramount concern. 51% of those polled consider the plan’s passage to be “critically important,” with “Only 16% say it is ‘not that important.’”

http://www.gallup.com/poll/114202/Obama-Upper-Hand-Stimulus-Fight.aspx

Screw-The-DNC

“News flash – we’re already in meltdown, and a rushed bill containing a staggering amount of waste and not-so-subtle payoffs.”

Sorry, meant to say “News flash – we’re already in meltdown, and a rushed bill containing a staggering amount of waste and not-so-subtle payoffs WILL NOT STIMULATE ANYTHING!”

lark

Funny that maybe gold at the inflated prices is selling these days may be actually a good buy. Not that I am recommending it. But if a melt-down happens, the metal may go up substantially.

cynic

Over 100 leading economists took out a full-page ad in the NY Times to oppose the bill, and have since been joined by 200 more.

And here’s a formal letter to Congress dated January 27, 2009, signed by a lengthy list of noted American economists, urging prompt passage of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. They believe that the plan is appropriate and necessary, in terms of both scale and breadth.

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2009/01/stimulus_letter.html

You will note that the TOP 6 signatories to the letter are ALL winners of the Nobel Prize in Economics. Presumably these people know what they’re talking about.

Mary

You will note that the brilliant Joseph Stiglitz is NOT on that list.

Presumably he wants nothing to do with frivolously bankrupting the country.
lark

ALL winners of the Nobel Prize in Economics

Then why is the country in such dire straights with so many Nobels.
Jaycephus

There are a lot of economists who think government spending is a great way to ‘stimulate’ the economy, which just happens to be a very attractive-sounding solution to the Progressives at americanprogressaction.org.

Duh.

There are also a lot of Nobel-winning economists who think your Nobel-winning economists are complete idiots.

So ‘appeal to authority’ doesn’t win any arguments here. Can you maybe think for yourself and tell us why throwing money at a bunch of government employees is going to turn the economy around or keep people in their homes, or any of the other promises that were made??????????????????

Anything?

AlexisM

Only a troll would like that OINK OINK OINK Bacon Bill. No rational person with a brain would even think of defending that pathetic piece of crap. I am fuming that more people aren’t picketing, rioting, whatever. It’s the coffin nail for us. All because Obama is a lazy do nothing POS and Pelosi wrote a big fat old-fashioned pork barrel spendthrift moronic 700 page wish list for fatty fat greedy politicians. Try again Gadzooka. We’re not buying the troll meme.
Bazooka

Lets get a few facts straight. First, the dems took control of the congress in January 2007. The credit crisis began in July 2007. The seeds were sew regarding derivatives and the housing bubble well before the dems took control of congress.

Second, during the two years that he dems actually had control of congress they had zero power to do anything. Bush would not work with them in any bipartisan way and he veto every single thing they tried to do. To say the Dems are responsible for this economic mess is a joke. The Repubs controlled everything for 6 years with their failed economic policies, actually really controlled everything for 8 yrs. It was their watch.

Who cares if the Rep were not involved in the first draft. The first draft of the bill means nothing. That is how the process works.The senate more often than not re-write bills. And in fact, there was plenty of outreach from the beginnning, as that is why the tax cuts were put in.

Shuler’s comments are BS in the larger context. At the end of the day the Republicans want Obama to fail and the stimulus to fail. They are not willing to work with Dems. It is not the dems that should be bowing down to the repubs, but the other way around. It is all politics with the repubs. There was not much outreach by the repub leadership when they were in power. Obama met with the republicans three times on this bill. How many times did bush meet with the dems’ caucus??

The majority of the public does want the stimulus and only 38% oppose. Get your facts straight and look at this pole:

“Fifty-one percent of those included in that Gallup survey conducted Friday and Saturday and released Monday said passing an economic stimulus plan of some kind was critically important. Another 29 percent said it was important, though not critical. In the same poll, those surveyed gave far higher marks to Obama’s handling of the economy than they did to Republican critics of his plan.”

http://www.gallup.com/poll/114184/Public-Support-Stimulus-Package-Unchanged.aspx

200 hundred right wing economists. So what? many many more economists in the U.S. and all over the world support stimulus. That is why almost all the OECD countries are doing it.

Where exactly is all the pork? less than 2% of the bill was complained about by the repubs.

Here is the bill as it was orignally written.

http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/PressSummary01-15-09.pdf

where is the pork?

Alot of the controversial spending is now out. The two moderate republicans cut out alot of the education spending, which means less schools being built and update. A bit of a joke cut so they can claim some kind of victory.

Ferd Berfle

Second, during the two years that he dems actually had control of congress they had zero power to do anything. Bush would not work with them in any bipartisan way and he veto every single thing they tried to do.

BS, peashooter. Reid could have held the Senate in session until the cows came home and gotten what he wanted. Pelosi could have done the same. That’s why they were in charge. What did Pelosi do? Take impeachment off the table–her one bargaining chip. You fool–she gave it away with out so much as a whimper.

The former Democrats are certainly made of much less than stern stuff, as is apparent from your apologies for them. I am so glad I finally understood th depths of their cowardice and stupidity after 32 years carrying their water for them.

Bazooka

if the dems held the senate in session as you say… i am sure you would have complained about that..

if you can change from being a democrat to being a republican because your hillary lost that is very sad.

democrats are about reaching out and helping your fellow man and republicans are all about the individual. if you can change your sole that quickly, then you never were a democrat.

Donna Brazile

LMAO! Keep hope alive Ba-zo-zo!

Stop the lovefest!
Tversky

You’re an excellent example of why our country is in the dire straits it’s in Bazooka. Stop swallowing liberal propaganda and start using your critical thinking skills (if you have any.) Yes, the INTENTION of much Democratic legislation is (at least on the surface) to reach out and help our fellow man. But INTENTIONS doesn’t mean jack. All that matters are RESULTS. And the fact is, the large federal government intervensionist programs advocated by liberal Democrats of the last 50+ years and still moronically supported by the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and the rest of their ilk have been abject FAILURES. Worse than that, they’ve frequently had the OPPOSITE of their intended effects (e.g., the moronic “Buy American” provision they wanted to add to Stimulus package that would’ve set off a trade war we haven’t seen since Smoot-Hawley and like Smoot-Hawley have helped CREATE a Great Depression.)
Supporting idiot liberal Dems like Pelosi and Reid is not helping out your fellow man. It’s actually HURTING your fellow man. Their short sighted policy prescriptions are disastrous for average people.
Don’t buy into the partisan b.s.: Supporting a Democrat is not always doing what’s best for your fellow citizen. Nor is supporting a Republican anathema. You’ve got to look at what that politician is actually proposing: But not just the INTENTIONS of that policy but also the logical results of that policy.
Ferd Berfle

No asshat-democrats are about goring the Republican’s ox before their gets gored and no more. You are one stupid bot. Just how old are you, punk?

lark

You seem like a real moron. Aren’t you someone who believes in “Change”? Well the Dems have not provided one iota of change analysis, have they? And why do you approve of spending 1 trillion in everything but change? As far as I understand the only change supported by the bill is some kind of fascist medical record system which snarls every citizen including you and puts them at the mercy of the State. That’s change you want to believe but that you won’t believe how much it will hurt you once it is in place. Be happy now. Change zilch.
Ferd Berfle

The vast majority of this bill is for very good infrastructure spending.

Specifics, toodles. Your generalizations are Obamabotese. Try some good, old-fashioned English–you know, the language most of us speak.
Tversky

Bazooka. You need to stop right now and look at the actual bill. You are embarrasing yourself.
There is very little in that bill going toward roads and bridges – the form of infrastructure spending that may actually reap some longterm dividend. By the way, Senator Obama specifically CAMPAIGNED on that type of infrastructure spending. Not the pork in this bill. In fact, this stimulus bill doesn’t look anything like what Senator Obama campaigned for. Senator Obama’s new job creation tax credit is gone from the bill too. The idiot lib Dems took that out too.
If I had voted for Obama I would feel pretty deceived right now.
I guess it’s easier for you to stay blissfully ignorant though, right? It’s easier to believe the whole problem in Washington was the party in power – not the entire corrupt system.

Bazooka

Have you looked at the bill?

Here is the summary:

http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/PressSummary01-15-09.pdf

How can you say there is not a lot of infrastructure? It is right there in front of you.

Here are just a few of the items.

Energy
$32 billion: Funding for “smart electricity grid” to reduce waste
$16 billion: Renewable energy tax cuts and a tax credit for research and development on energy-related work, and a multiyear extension of renewable energy production tax credit
$6 billion: Funding to weatherize modest-income homes

Science and Technology
$10 billion: Science facilities
$6 billion: High-speed Internet access for rural and underserved areas

Infrastructure
$30 billion: Transportation projects
$31 billion: Construction and repair of federal buildings and other public infrastructure
$19 billion: Water projects
$10 billion: Rail and mass transit projects

Education
$41 billion: Grants to local school districts
$79 billion: State fiscal relief to prevent cuts in state aid
$21 billion: School modernization ($15.6 billion to increase the Pell grant by $500; $6 billion for higher education modernization)

Health Care
$39 billion: Subsidies to health insurance for unemployed; providing coverage through Medicaid
$87 billion: Help to states with Medicaid
$20 billion: Modernization of health-information technology systems
$4.1 billion: Preventative care

Jobless Benefits
$43 billion for increased unemployment benefits and job training.
$39 billion to support those who lose their jobs by helping them to pay the cost of keeping their employer provided healthcare under COBRA and providing short-term options to be covered by Medicaid.
$20 billion to increase the food stamp benefit by over 13% in order to help defray rising food costs.

Taxes

Individuals:

*$500 per worker, $1,000 per couple tax cut for two years, costing about $140 billion.
*Greater access to the $1,000-per-child tax credit for the working poor.
*Expansion of the earned-income tax credit to include families with three children
*A $2,500 college tuition tax credit.
*Repeal of a requirement that a $7,500 first-time homebuyer tax credit be paid back over time.

Businesses:

*An infusion of cash into money-losing companies by allowing them to claim tax credits on past profits dating back five years instead of two.
*Bonus depreciation for businesses investing in new plants and equipment
*Doubling of the amount small businesses can write off for capital investments and new equipment purchases.
*Allowing businesses to claim a tax credit for hiring disconnected youth and veterans

http://sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

I agree with Sanford and am glad this message is starting to squeak through the MSM–there may be hope yet (the GOOD kind!). Ron Paul has been saying the same thing all along yet is largely ignored by the media. Visit http://www.campaignforliberty.com for great ideas from Paul and the many savvy bloggers there. Give him a listen–he is highly knowledgeable.

Here’s a great article by Mike Munger from Duke University saying the same: http://popecenter.org/commentaries/article.html?id=2129
Don’t miss his Friedman analogy of the economy as a big ship. It’s a MUST READ! This economy will come around 2nd or 3rd quarter (according to the CBO). If this plan passes, the credit will go to it yet the pain it causes will not surface until later. It will further confuse most people regarding the competency of this president and congress.

Add to these the 320+ (at last count) economists in academia who are against the plan, found at http://www.cato.org and everything the Congressional Budget Office is saying, http://www.cbo.gov , and you seriously have to question why Obama claims ‘everyone’ is for this plan!

“NO” to the plan!
Sassy

Amy, I saw Governor Sanford do several interviews, when his name was being floated as a possible V.P. for McCain.
I like his demeanor and bearing… and I am also warming to some other republicans.
However, Susan Collins is not one of them!
She may pat herself on the back for reducing this package, but I do not!
Those three Senators guaranteed passage of this monstrosity, and I hope they are held accountable in the near future!

http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

I think they will be. I saw an article earlier today on exactly that subject. I mean, really – one day, you have Arlen Specter talking tough to Harry Reid abt the separation of powers, and how he doesn’t have to do this for Obama, as Reid insisted, and he then immediately caved.

How ANYONE could pass this bill with all of the pork that are NOT job creating, but simply paybacks, and claim to represent us is laughable. But to include those HORRENDOUS health care changes is simply obscene. There is no excuse for those even being IN this package in the first place, but for Democrats to keep trying to claim the moral high ground while proposing something so immoral says it all.

http://sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

If this stimulus plan passes and we get health care that is a disaster, it will probably be tossed once Republicans get back in control. Imagine how long a good health care plan will have to wait after that bad experience–generations, probably.

There are so many disastrous potential problems in this bill!

lark

No matter how disastrous it turn out to be the Republicans will not toss it out. Government never tosses out disasters because it fits perfectly their needs. Government feeds on disastrous consequences of their policies. Is their oxygen of life.

Judy L. NC

Hey, y’all, check out the cover of Newsweek, “WE ARE ALL SOCIALISTS NOW!”

http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com/ obamastolemyboyfriend

I did. Here’s the link:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/183812

Wowser! During the election it was “racist” or “a lie” to call the one a Socialist. Now I guess it’s cool?

Tversky

I’m absolutely disgusted by the Dems and the Obama Administration. They’re doing EXACTLY what they rightly complained the Bush Admin did:
Using scare tactics to ram deeply partisan flawed legislation down the throats of the American people. Bush PERFECTED the whole “Chicken Little” the sky is falling crap. It’s how the Iraq War vote occured, it’s how Medicare Part D got passed, it’s how TARP passed, etc.
Shame on every single member of Congress that is giving this crap a stamp of approval without taking the time to even READ IT. (And you know damn well they haven’t read it since it’s over 600 pages.)

I don’t want to hear a single Obamabot defend this garbage after they very rightly bitched and moaned about Bush’s tactics. No. This legislation does NOT need to be passed TOMORROW. The American people deserve hearings. They deserve to hear exactly what is in this crap sandwhich and how exactly it’ll stimulate the economy. This is truly shameful.

I feel like we’ve traded in one group group of corrupt, partisan, hacks (Bush and DeLay’s GOP) for another group of corrupt, partisan hacks (Obama and Pelosi/Reid’s Dems.) This is an absolute outrage.
Hot Librarian

Thank you for your concerns over the bushfires in Australia.

Of course we are the undisputed world champions of bushfires but this one is beyond predictions.

We have an excellent bush fire predictive ,management & fighting services but we also have eucalypts forests which are highly combustible.

The weather last week was 8 days continual of over 105 degrees (fahrenheit)/43 celsius. The weather on Saturday was 110 degrees in Melbourne (46c ) & 114 in the country. The humidity was less than 10% & the wind was gusting at over 40 miles per hour from the NW _which was manageable then it swung to 60 mph SE.

This is when people were caught . there is othing like an Australian bushfire with forests of 30 foot eucalypts combusting. the air is full of smoke & embers .& fierce wall of noise.. Those who fled in panic most likely died-in cars , running from houses ,in streets & even sheltering in churches..

I write this to explain that conditions were extreme & that arson may have been a cause of some outbreaks – the death toll is due to conditions &
undoubted & understandable panic.

To live in a mountain hamlet & not be able to escape -as fire travels exponentally up a ridge /mountain is to face hell.

We are not a religious country .We will not blame. The people will be ok .

I look forward to the forests growing & regenerating.
Hot Librarian

* People who were sheltering in churches died just the same. its like the Jewish man who yelled -There is no God- as he was lined up at Babi Yar & killed..

I hope they were not religious. what must they have thought?I It takes that to know what the biblical meaning of forsaken is.
Hot Librarian

****Good news -that report on people burnt in the church has not been confirmed. hopefully not true. .
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