So much for principle. When the Republican led effort to condemn for its ad calling General Petraeus on the carpet for being a political hack and betraying the troops, who stood with MoveOn’s right to have a voice? Hillary Clinton. Barack “the Coward” Obama voted PRESENT. Why? He didn’t want to have to stand for something that might be unpopular in a national election.

So who does MoveOn endorse for President? Barack of course. MoveOn has now demonstrated they are not to be taken seriously. They fuck the people who stand up for them and reward the ones who refuse to stand. That is courage in their eyes? Assholes!!

UPDATE:  Excellent points boys and girls.  That’s the beauty of the blog.  Getting informed opinions from a bunch of smart people.  I hope you understand my fundamental point.  I’m not crying crocodile tears because Hillary did not get the MoveOn endorsement.  And, as Donovan and others point out below, such an endorsement brings more negatives than positives in the general election.  But there is the matter of principle.  When someone takes a political risk for you and stands up to the Republican attack machine, as Hillary did in this case and Barack did not, I do think a debt is owed.

The vote to condemn MoveOn was a window into the soul of both candidates.  Barack, true to form as Susan notes below, chose to vote present.  Hell, why take a stand on a controversial issue.  Hillary, with an eye on the upcoming campaign, could have taken the politically expedient road–vote present, vote to condemn, or just don’t vote.  She was willing to stand on the principle that the right of a left wing group to criticize the military and the President is a right that must be defended.  That’s character.  And that’s something lacking in both Barack and MoveOn.

And what a bitter irony.  A group initially formed as a response to the unrelenting rightwing attack on Bill and Hillary does the truly classless think and tells the Clinton’s to shove off.

Previous articleDespite Chickenhawk Commentary, Violence Explodes in Iraq
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Larry C. Johnson is a former analyst at the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, who moved subsequently in 1989 to the U.S. Department of State, where he served four years as the deputy director for transportation security, antiterrorism assistance training, and special operations in the State Department's Office of Counterterrorism. He left government service in October 1993 and set up a consulting business. He currently is the co-owner and CEO of BERG Associates, LLC (Business Exposure Reduction Group) and is an expert in the fields of terrorism, aviation security, and crisis and risk management, and money laundering investigations. Johnson is the founder and main author of No Quarter, a weblog that addresses issues of terrorism and intelligence and politics. NoQuarterUSA was nominated as Best Political Blog of 2008.
  • EvelynFrances

    President Bill Clinton signed some important documents while in office with a plan to attack all non democrat countries by pronouncing war on them beginning with iraq. We were going to see much of the same with his wife in office. John McCain clearly states that he willnot end the war in iraq and he will probablt begin a new war probably with iran.

    • EvelynFrances

      sorry my typing is so bad guys. at any rate this documetnation was produced several years ago but i cant remember if it was on 60 minutes or some other program

      • EvelynFrances

        Everyone is so pro Hillary because of Bill clinton I dont get it what did Bill do to help our country during his term of office absolutely nothing. the USA was already prosperous because of Reaganomics not becasue of him. I remember one day when Bill announced he was giving away so many millions of dollars to Bangladesh in 1998 and they hadnt even had a catastrophe of any kind!

  • Pingback: Larry Johnson’s strange trip by David Weigel How a onetime hero of the liberal blogosphere and the Democratic Party spread perhaps the most damaging anti-Obama smear of the primary. « Mcnorman’s Weblog()

  • Kirek

    What the American people do not know is that there is the other side of Obama that we have not yet to know. If he get elected, the truth will come out, but the damage will bring shame and pain to this great nation. I am not white, nor I am black, therefor I can speak of what I see coming down. We are so caught up the glitter of his oratory skills, but we forgot one very simple formula: Talk is cheap! We love to see history unfolds, and we think that by his age, and image is good enough to proof his qualifications. You all going to regret this and will be the guy saying I told ya so!

    PS- I would like to go on more, bu I think ou all know the ending.

  • Rick Bruteli

    Wow ,I have been writing MoveON ,so pissed off I figured I could not be alone but this is great .
    Dose anyone know the breakdown of money given to Presidential candidates ? For some odd reason I thought it was going to All of the Democrat’s Candidates .Oh have I been pissed off.
    They did help cement my choice and glad they did , lately Obama has been a overly arrogant .
    I did attempt to vote but did not want to give out my Home or Cell number, so it did not count , even then I had no idea they were going to pick for us .
    I did get a quik email asking if I was still on the fence , no not anymore . Totaly Unexcetable picking for me . I asked for the breakdown of who got what money but no response . Also a Vote that we all knew was coming , still the vote and picking one candidate is pretty much like Howard Dean jumping in and picking , he will of course after we are threw the proses ! Redundantly voicing my opinion and for all the emails I have recieved on this topic.
    FUCK OFF to

    • EvelynFrances

      that is Obama’s personality. he’s not arrogant however its just the way that yuppies have a tendency to express themselves.i like Barack Obama he’s energetic , bright, sensitive, caring , balanced and he’ll make a good president. he’s a yuppie from humble origins not like Hillary who is a billionaire and likes to play up her fake humbleness. remember yoohoo she voted for the war on iraq not once but severalt times wake up people.

  • trey

    i dont know if yall have noticed, but it isn’t as if has any influence on the majority of voters

  • notred

    I’m in Idaho. I orginally supported Edwards, but now support Obama. I voted in the poll. I do like red wine, but sip it pretty far removed from SF. I’m educated (a teacher), but unemployed. I’m a single mom. Apparently, I’m ignorant, elitist, lacking in character, and, um…astroturf, too. Thanks for the info.

  • Pablo

    BTW, does the fact that Petraeus was absolutely right penetrate your skull in any meaningful fashion, Scary? Or are you stuck in wishful suspension of rationality mode?

    • allimom99

      Hey Pablo, check out the post about what Clinton, Obama and McCain need to know about the surge (also on Larry’s site) if you think Petraeus is uch a genius. Please get your info straight before you start spouting.


  • Pablo


    Booga booga! Thank God for you, Scary Larry.

  • allimom99

    I have also unsubscribed from MoveOn. As an Edwards supporter, I was pissed off about how fast they were ready to anoint Obama. Empty suit indeed. If you look back through the local Chicago coverage (link through Taylor Marsh’s site), you will see that he’s NEVER had to run against a serious opponent for various (underhanded) reasons. From vetting his then-fiancee Michelle’s prospective employer on down to now, his overarching interst has ALWAYS been his own ambition.

    We need a REAL LEADER in the White House who can stand up and fix the mess that Bush has created. Sorry Kool Aid fanciers, Obama’s NOT that guy. I already cast my ballot for Edwards here in CA, but I will now be actively supporting Hillary.

    • TeakWoodKite

      My sane half was wondering about the absentee folks and how much nullification will occur.

    • tinat

      you know, if you’d read Obamas book “Audacity of Hope” you wouldn’t have to go to Taylors site because he talks for pages about how lucky he was in his Senate race that all the “credible” candidates dropped out and he was left running against Alan Keyes..but that isn’t as sexy of a take on it then Taylors take huh…I mean reading the mans own version on it or reading Taylors opinion..yep so with Taylor

      • Mike Pridmore

        Funny how he got rid of those formidable opponents. Ever ask yourself how THAT happened? There are many here who can tell you those stories. Luck had nothing to do with it.

  • touchet

    Heres a little information on “present” votes straight from the Illonois Senate to you!

    (Senate Rule 1-9)
    1-9. Majority. “Majority” means a simple majority of those
    members present and voting on a question. Unless otherwise
    specified with respect to a particular Senate Rule, for
    purposes of determining the number of members present and
    voting on a question, a “present” vote shall not be counted.
    (Source: S.R. 2, 95th G.A.)

    (Senate Rule 6-1)

    (c) The Secretary shall periodically print a Resolutions
    Consent Calendar, which the Secretary shall periodically
    distribute prior to its consideration by the Senate (generally
    the last daily session of the week). No debate is in order
    regarding any resolution appearing on the Resolutions Consent
    Calendar. All resolutions appearing on the Resolutions Consent
    Calendar may be adopted in one motion; however, any Senator may
    vote “no” or “present” on any resolution appearing on the
    Resolutions Consent Calendar by providing written notice of
    that intention to the Secretary prior to the vote on the
    Resolutions Consent Calendar. Prior to the adoption of any
    resolution on the Resolutions Consent Calendar, if any three
    members file with the Secretary a written objection to the
    presence of a resolution thereon, that resolution shall be
    removed from the Resolutions Consent Calendar and is
    automatically referred to the Rules Committee.
    (Source: S.R. 2, 95th G.A.)

    (Senate Rule 7-15)
    7-15. Reconsideration.

    (e) A Senator who voted “present” or failed to vote on a
    question shall not have the right to move for reconsideration.

  • Brighid

    I think is going to discover what the Culinary Workers discovered in Nevada. Endorsing can be a double-edged sword. You can end up highlighting just how irrelevant you really are to the vast majority of Americans.

  • Taters

    Yes Larry, character counts. MoveOn showed a tremendous lack of it.
    I say fuck ’em.

  • ponds

    Am disappointed with you on this one Larry. Not that I agree with’s decision, but to frame the debate in terms of loyalty as the litmus test for choosing a candidate. The emphasis on placing loyalty above all has been a constant theme of the Bush administration and is a trait we must protect against. If you want to disagree with over policy issues or the propriety of even making an endorsement, fine. But please do not suggest that anyone should make a political choice based primarily on a sense of loyalty. I would expect as much from Alberto Gonzales, but not Larry Johnson. And by the way, it is also painful to see your readers engaged in name-calling and ad-hominems against fellow Democrats with whom they may disagree. This behavior is the staple of the Limbaugh’s and O’Reilly’s, but has no place in adult discourse.

    • BrianK

      Exactly, Ponds. I am a member, and disappointed with the results of the poll. But this poll was taken of’s members, and I accept that I won’t always like the results of democratic, grassroots organizations. And I really dislike the idea that loyalty to an organization – rather than to ideals or values – is being put out there as the reason to be angry with them.

      I don’t get the slandering of MoveOn here in the comments — given their impressive GOTV results in 2006, and given their commitment to key issues in this campaign. I haven’t seen or heard any credible evidence that this poll was flawed.

    • Larry Johnson

      It is not about “loyalty.” There is not a wit of difference between Hillary and Obama on Iraq, except that Hillary has a better understanding of what is required to withdraw US forces and disengage. Until Hillary brought up the issue of what do we do about Iraqi translators working for us, Obama didn’t have a clue.

      This is about understanding whether a person has the balls, the guts, the courage to stand up for you when you are being attacked. Especially on a fundamental principle regarding the right of the opposition to protest a government policy.

      Do you not fucking understand that Obama chickened out? He had a bullshit excuse for deciding to vote PRESENT. Hillary, despite the political risk for her, stood with a small number of Democrats against this populist tide. It ain’t loyalty it is character.

      That’s the problem I have with this chickenshit poseur, Obama. On something that counts he’s off hiding in a corner. He makes an anti-war speech on Iraq back in 2002–when it did not matter for him politically–and then comes to Washington and falls right in line with Hillary and others. Only, he scrubs the speech from his website. If he believes it then he should have stood up and defended his so-called “visionary” position.

  • Voter

    Larry – How about driving some votes here. Would be good to see what people think overseas.

  • Cee


    What makes you think this endorsement helps Obama?

    Also, what would you be saying if they endorsed Hillary?

    Btw…I’m not a MoveOn member and didn’t get to vote. 😀

  • Joyce C

    I also cancelled my subscription today as soon as I learned of their endorsement. Something about Obama that rubs me the wrong way and I’m a pretty good judge of people. There’s more to this man than we know about and I think it is not good.

  • JerseyJeffersonian

    I sent a little communication to MoveOn for what it’s worth, expressing my disappointment with their decision. I am, along with a number of other posters on this site, an Edwards supporter, so I made it clear that I was not carrying water for Senator Clinton. I am for the “better” Democrat option. Technically, there is a Democratic majority in the legislature, but absent progressive (and/or fighting) Democrats, Bush’s assaults on the Constitution and the rule of law, and his ghastly stewardship of the nation in general go unchecked. We just can’t afford more of the same. Here is my letter:

    Dear Sir:

    So let me get this straight. At this early stage of the nominating
    process, instead of advocating for PROGRESSIVE VALUES, you jumped with both feet
    into supporting a candidate whose progressive credentials are SERIOUSLY in
    doubt? You jumped with both feet into supporting a candidate closely associated
    with one of the most infamous political machines in the country? You jumped
    with both feet into supporting a candidate whose nebulous explanations of his
    financial dealings with Mr. Rezko threaten a “self-swiftboating” debacle? Uh
    I am an Edwards backer. I’m still going to vote for him in my upcoming NJ
    primary. Yes, I know that he has suspended his campaign. I am however serious
    about not letting either of the two corporatist shills left standing forget that
    they have to earn my vote, no matter which one of them we’re saddled with come
    November. And I am heartily concerned that, given some of the backing and
    sawing I’m seeing out of Senator Obama regarding his financial dealings in Chicago, that he might be fatally weakened in the voting public’s mind
    by this sort of double shuffle. With the passage of time may come explanations,
    but maybe not. And if not, where does that leave’s reputation? One
    shudders to contemplate this. One might think that you would recall that
    Senator Clinton at least had your back in the Petraeus flap, while the best
    Senator Obama could muster was another one of his by now infamous “present”
    votes. Well, I guess that one would be thinking incorrectly, eh?
    You should have kept your powder dry.

    Forrest A. Rowland

    And into the black hole of the comment hopper it went.

  • justsomeone

    Donovan Fraser could very well be right in his assessment of MoveOn’s endorsement. I personally have never visited their site. The progressive wing of the Democratic party can really alienate some of the more moderate members. Their endorsement of Obama could easily become part of the Republican buzz saw if he gets to move on to November & the same for HRC due to her vote. I had to laugh today, Ann Coulter released a statement saying if McCain gets the nomination she’ll have to campaign for Hillary cause she’s more conservative. This has been one hell of a crazy primary.

    • simon is not progressive, is astroturf.

      Kennedy, Kerry, and Kucinich are moderates.

      Again, Hillary seems to be the real progressive here, Obama’s a poser.

      • chris

        Are you smoking CRACK!…..What are you ….
        I’m stunned..

        He’s put his ass on the line by pushing to impeach the Vice President. He was the only candidate who called for impeachment during debates.

        The rest of them are Moderates compared to him. What is a moderate then because…to me….a moderate isn’t the one who goes out there and insists on impeaching the Vice President and President in the middle of a Presidential Debate.

        The Moderates are the ones who sit back and grin at him, which was everyone else.

        I hope you’re simply being sarcastic here, cuz that was way off. Refill your hookah and draw that line up again.

        Kennedy, Kerry are moderates….but Kuch is not a moderate

  • Gloria

    Not a real poll of the membership. A really poor job by Moveon.

  • Silver

    I just cancelled my membership to Move On and am feeling quite furious. Whoever thought it was a clever idea to promote a candidate at this stage of the game and influence the primary outcome must have “dumb bass” written on their forehead. I’d be elated if Move On lost over half their membership from other Hillary supporters who are just as mad as I am. I’ve already quit reading most of the progressive blogs who are so blatantly pro-Obama. You know, I live in a small town that’s mostly Republican Conservative Christian. And oftentimes I feel like I’m the only liberal Democrat in the world. During this election, I have the exact same feelings towards the blogs. The majority are pro-Obama except for a tiny handful. That’s why I’m so grateful for this blog as well as Taylor Marsh and The Left Coaster that seem to be the only places who have a kind word for Hillary. At least I can regain my sanity from those sites!!

    • simon

      This creates a bubble, though, for the pro Obama supporters.

      I haven’t been looking at any type of polling lately, to gain a better idea of how the blogs see, as opposed to the reality on the ground.

      Data is so easily manipulated.

  • justsomeone

    1st Republic 14th Star, I looked at your blog. Like you I’m deeply concerned about the recent disclosures about The Coalition to Salute America’s Heroes. I’ve even talked them up on this site. I contributed to Roger Chapin’s Craft Kit fund for yrs until I got a thank you note from a vet & contacted him…he told me they usually SELL the wounded vets the craft kits & that’s why he so appreciated mine, cause it was free. It blew my mind. Now this. I really want to help Afghan/Iraqi vets, not make Roger et al rich. (To all others please excuse the off topic)

  • campskunk

    so much for loyalty. well, they’re more temperamentally suited for the obama crowd, anyway, looks like.

  • Fred C. Dobbs

    Der Shrub was in Las Vegas yesterday and last night, staying at the Venetian (owned by Sheldon Adelson and non-union, if you care where your Lodging bucks go).

    When Air Force One left, I made it a point to face away and moon the sonofabitch. I declared the ten meters around my location to be a Free Speech Zone and was prepared to defend said mooning as Freedom of Expression.

    That said, Geffen and the boys will probably this move sometime in the future. I think that Hillary is Nixon-like in her memory of Who Farted Upwind and will probably deal up a lesson in PayBacks.

    • simon

      I love Airforce One.

      Not the current occupant, by any means, but the elegance of that plane represents the United States of America at it’s best, a thing of beauty.

  • brat

    Eh, but watch the union endorsements. I’m an AFT member and its been AGRESSIVE in getting out the vote for Hiliary. If I were a pol, I would DIE to get their endorsement.

    • SusanUnPC

      Well, SEIU endorsed Obama today. Here’s the kicker: SEIU demanded that the candidate they endorse be for UNIVERSAL health care. Which Obama is not. So much for principals.

  • Donovan Fraser

    Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise Larry. The right wing pundits froth at the mouth at the mere mention of ( never mind that they were right about Patreus and this silly surge BS) so the fact they didn’t endorse Hillary might be the greatest gift to her chances in the general election.

    maybe it’s triangulation from the left.

  • susanunpc

    It’s very important to recall the facts of that vote:

    1) Hillary Clinton made an effort to get back to the Senate, and vote on that measure.

    2) She stuck her neck out voting to support’s dumb ad against Patreaus.

    3) Obama stayed on the campaign trail.

    4) Obama doesn’t have the balls to stick his neck out on controversial votes like that.

    • grtphoto

      Thank you Susan!! I’m reading with great pleasure the responses to this ridiculous vote. I thought it was clever and voted Hillary, while at the same time thinking to myself what a cowardly way to endorse someone; why couldn’t they make a decision on their own? Sure blame it on the voters. I agree, some endorsements can backfire, i.e; Patreaus.

      • SusanUnPC

        Actually, I got the facts mixed up with the Iran vote, which Obama also chickened out on voting on.

        He WAS in the Senate the day of the MoveOn vote. He just hid until the vote was over.

  • justsomeone

    Those Chicago style slap downs can come out of the blue.

  • RalphB

    Note that the 197,344 votes for endorsement is what percentage of their vaunted 3.2 million members? What a pant load. I also unsubscribed today. The asshats.

    One addition to the limousine liberals, the Kennedy clan. I think they’re a pretty good fit.

  • TeakwoodKite

    As with most “organization” that started at the grass roots level, they become top heavy and ripe for picking. Fear not; while having 3.2 million members(?) is not a bumbersticker of any consequence since it reflects the “liberal” demographics. What does amuse me is that apparently likes jumping on the wagon. Has anyone considered the attack ads by the right that are coming because of this “endorsement”? I most certianly could be wrong, but this sort of thing is why endorsements may back fire. I am not a member, never will be. I have seen so many of the rank and file be consistantly in opposition to what the management endorses. Moveon seems like it has lost it way.

  • alexei

    Yes, I unsubscribed today. The Obama mania is unreal – I for the life of me can’t understand why people fall for tent show revivals and hallelulas. T

    • rjj

      Why? for the same reasons we willingly become credit serfs and buy into speculation bubbles.

      How? Wishful thinking and suspension abdication of disbelief.

    • Hope

      It’s the “Hysterical Personality Cult” Gene!

    • Sha

      Did you get the “No, don’t go” BS follow-up to your unscription?

  • 1st Republic 14th Star

    Three times I got an e-mail reminding me to vote. Three times I voted to delay endorsement, which was one of three choices. Here are the results of the “poll,” as posted by MoveOn:

    Vote results:

    Obama, 197,444, 70.4%

    Clinton, 83,084, 29.6%

    Note that the percentages add up to 100%. In other words, you’re supposed to believe that no one voted to delay an endorsement. In fact, from these results, you’d never know “delay,” was an option.

    I wrote to MoveOn and suggested that if they’re going to become an arm of the Obama campaign, they should conduct more explicit polls:

    “Barack Obama: great Senator, or greatest Senator EVER?”

    “Obama: Bigger than Jesus?” This one comes with ONLY a place to respond “yes.”

    • TeakwoodKite

      Obama has an active googlebomb platoon. Check out what happens to any e-poll with his name in it. I have observed this over the last 12 months.

      1st Republic 14th Star: You were able to vote 3 times on one email

    • TeakwoodKite

      1st Republic 14th Star: You were able to vote more than once per email account?

      Obama has had an active googlebomb squad for the last 12 months. Have you ever watched epolls with him as a choice?

      • TeakwoodKite

        Sorry about the repeat, it got a way from me somehow.

      • 1st Republic 14th Star

        No, I wasn’t able to vote more than once. I voted, but then received an e-mail reminding me I hadn’t voted — my vote for delaying endorsement apparently hadn’t been counted. So I voted again, and again I received an e-mail message reminding me I hadn’t voted — apparently my vote for delaying endorsement still appeared to not have been counted. The same thing happened a third time. Since the published poll results do not include “delaying endorsement,” I conclude that they had no intention of counting anything but pro-Obama votes.

        • TeakwoodKite

          Pre-Determinism. Some kind of Shaw Shank institutionalization is occuring at Moveon?

          delaying endorsement; Buzzer…Ouch!(wrong answer)
          delaying endorsement; Buzzer…Ouch!(wrong answer)

  • CognitiveDissonance

    I agree, Larry. You cannot stand up for principle if you no longer have any.

  • http://OUTRAGEDBUTNOTSURPRISED bama_barrron

    when i became aware of the obama endorsement through an email moveon sent me … i almost became physically ill. after the nausea subsided, i contacted the national office and my local contacts and told them i was no longer to be considered a member.
    i learned along time ago … i dont go to war with someone who wont have my back. screw geffen and his insider group … moveon will loose alot of us old timers over this betrayal. oh, by the way … screw obama as well!

    • simon

      And Geffen is not good, that blast at Hillary during the summer struck me as a prima donna temper tantrum, Bill not doing Geffen’s bidding, Geffen’s narcissistic rage spilling over.

      “Oh, Obama, another Hollywood elite,” and then Rush gets a hold of it, associating Obama with Geffen’s elite, annoying behavior, and it resonates with the voters, because it’s true.

      Geffen, for example, is the type of man to impose his ego on Obama, perhaps so egotistical, he wont know enough to get out of the way, and Obama’s enemies will exploit this relationship, or any like it.

    • simon

      I kinda felt that way, too, and then I thought if Hillary DOES win the nomination, this may work to her favor, as really does reek of San Francisco elitism, and the republicans wont be able to paint Clinton as a limo liberal, allowing her to better appeal to the working class, whose support she has now, apparently.

      Occasionally, there is something very annoying about the behavior, they mean well, but they are always reminding you in some unspoken way of your place in the upper class meritocracy, inferior to theirs.

    • Sha

      I did the same thing – got sick and then told MoveOn never to send me another e-mail or request for my money. I even sent them money to support their ad about Petreaus. Now I refuse to fund their support of Obama!

      I also e-mailed The Nation and told them to cancel my subscription immediately This morning I was reading a recent edition and they had all sorts of articles about how conservative Obama is relative to Hillary and had already said they wouldn’t endorse.

      Neither group HAD to endorse anyone. Shame on them.

      • Hope

        Now that you mention “The Nation” has Katrina Vanden Heuvel (sp) endorsed Obama too?

  • Jesus Reyes and Obama, both Soros fronts. Of course, Soros and Brzezinski both can do empire better than neocons in whose camp Hillary now resides.

    • chris

      Oh are they “Soros Fronts”?
      Soros also killed the original formula for Coke, kidnapped the Charles Lindberg, and is responsible for lost Grumman fighters near Bermuda.

      Is MoveOn indeed a front for Soros or is this one of those Roger Ailes taglines that has gotten so old everyone’s using it.

  • Other Lisa

    Hey, I’m a wine drinking elitist, and I support Hillary!

    • simon

      More importantly, though, are you a drunk?

      Perhaps you could form a PAC, drunken elitists for Hillary (DEH!), start an adjunct chapter of AA, move it to Hollywood, as opposed to San Francisco, and impinge upon David Geffen, recapturing the star market, and Malibu, for Hillary, as it should be…

      I mean, screw Dreamworks…

  • Percy

    Couldn’t agree more or say it any better!

    ABO ’08

  • Hope

    What a bunch of shitheads! Ultra nutwingers!

  • simon

    The wine drinking crowd of San Francisco elitists,
    not interested in the working class democrat (the working class democrats SUPPORT Hillary), the fuzzy headed simply goes for image, attendant with Obama, heads as light as air, the self absorbed whipped cream rhetoric of the limousine liberal. They want to raise your taxes, but they don’t know what it is to struggle to feed a family of four, on $50,000 a year.

    At least, that’s what Karl Rove tells us.

    And really, when they speak of the limousine liberal, they mean

    If they were smart, they would have waited until the Rezko trial started to shake the tree.

    • simon

      So, Hillary, the “corporate” candidate, ends up being the real grassroots candidate, representing “joe sixpack.” Obama becomes the limousine liberal, in the image of Dukakis, Mondale, Kennedy and Kerry, David Geffen, and Moveon. org, with progressive astroturf as a base.


      I wonder what the republican PR machine is spinning…

      • CognitiveDissonance

        Simon, if you think Clinton is the corporate candidate, you need to get your facts straight. Go here and you will find that Obama has received funds from the same so-called corporate interests as Clinton has, in many cases more:

        If you’re going to repeat a talking point, at least get it right.

        • shoephone

          What tells us is that BHO and HRC are BOTH backed by the corporate interests. Heavily. And that’s not a talking point. It’s a fact.

        • simon

          No, I said she was initially portrayed as the corporate candidate, and that is in part why the astroturf progressives rejected her. (This not being the real reason, though.)

          It is ironic, and interesting to me how she has emerged, now that Edwards is gone, as the true candidate of the working man, the true progressive, such as it is.

          You see?

          Obama is what Hillary was supposed to be, the corporate puppet, the centrist, the real triangulator, the real democratic centrist, everything, say, Kos hates about McAuliffe, whereas Hillary has a chance to emerge as the the real grassroots candidate.

          I apologize if I was unclear, perhaps my writing wasn’t up to par.

          This also indicates a change in strategy, I wonder if it will be recognized.

          Or perhaps it was the strategy, who knows?

          Sometimes I dont write clearly, I apologize, it CAN be difficult to make the connections, I know.

        • s. hall

          cognitive — The real question I have is where Obama is really getting those big bucks? It seems to me that the media has ignored the well written story by Larry Johnson — Obama’s African Hubris. If its not news that an American presidential candidate is making Foreign Policy with his muslim cousin and 700 people are dead because of the violence this has caused. Then what is news? While we focus on Obama’s arrogant persona and ask ourselves did he mean to diss Hillary at the SOTU? We are missing the real story. Who is Barack Obama and if he became President — where are his loyalties?

      • LandOLincoln

        Simon, you just articulated perfectly what the Republican PR machine is spinning.

        The only question remaining is, is Obama consciously complicit? Is Kennedy, is Kerry?

        Or are they all so blinded by ego and power lust and Clinton hatred that they really can’t see how masterfully they’re being played?

        Barack Obama is the Pied Piper. God (or whoever) help us all.

    • Hope

      Simon, sounds like you’ve seen the SF ultra-left wing nutjobs firsthand. You called it!

      • simon

        I think it’s sad, if you look closely, the mainstream democrats (NOT Hillary) are already losing this election, just like they’ve lost every election since 1980.

        As compared to Hillary, watch how the same old crowd proceeds, same tactics, same over confidence, same feeling of false invincibility.

        I’m a democrat, it’s very very sad, to me.

        Rather than learning from the Bush years, the Obama limo libs emulate left over Rovian political strategy,(conquer and divide) call it a step forward, using tactics destructive to the American government, and people, tactics Rove knows how to beat, refusing to honestly evaluate WHY they don’t win elections, why they don’t represent the people, why they appear hypocritical and elite, ignoring troublesome facts, and blindly going with the Britney sex factor. They bought a false image, and everyone knows it but them. If the Obama foam is turned off, the gas, so to speak, they have nothing but a confused, brittle man with no political vision, a man the equivalent of a sinus infection.

        At the very least, not waiting until the Rezko trial dropped was very unwise of

        All it takes, really, is one well placed scandal, and poof, Obama is over, destroying the credibility of those who so blindly support him, those played for the fool.

        I would have had much more respect for them if they would have exhibited some sense of political shrewdness, even if Obama were by some miracle elected, he would be dictated to, as he doesn’t have strength of mind or purpose to necessarily act in America’s best interests.

        It is, IMHO, intense psychological warfare, from every corner. The Clintons can take it, and still move the country forward, Obama cannot, is not even slightly familiar with the tactics that will be used against him, like Bush, all you end up with is a big mush as President.


    • Hope

      Only one way to piss off a SF nutwinger – Call it “FRISCO”.

      • aphra

        Not so fast please. It’s entirely possible to be from the Bay Area, drink the occasional glass of chardonnay, support Hillary and cringe at the sound of Frisco. I’m not very happy with MoveOn myself right now, but being stereotyped and dissed simply for where I’m from isn’t likely to improve my mood either.

        • simon

          Understood, but this is how Rove markets your Obama supporters, and it works, and in some ways, he’s right.

          DOES Obama strike you as competent to run the country? Is connected to the democratic base? How does define the democratic base, those who make over 100,000 a year?


          Obama supporters foam at the mouth, like Obama, unable to offer a coherent argument as to WHY they support Obama, unwilling to admit his actions don’t correspond to his words, feeling they can swing this if they fight like they think Rove does.

          They look, and sound, foolish, already exhibiting signs of cocky overconfidence, feeding republican tactic number one: make them think they have won, and then chip away, knocking them down like bowling pins.

          And it wont matter WHO the Republican nominee is, it’s about ridiculing the democratic nominee, seeding fear, doubt and uncertainty, and chipping away at that lead.

          Rove has a lot to work with, in the gassy Obama hope projections.

          If Obama were to win the nomination, I would write in Edwards, I feel Obama is weaker than Bush.

          I will vote for Clinton on Super Tuesday.

          • aphra

            Sigh. I’ve already voted for Clinton by absentee ballot here in CA. You’re not telling me anything about Obama and his supporters that I haven’t figured out already. I’ve heard lots of disdain from his camp for those backward-looking middle-aged women and low-information less educated voters. I find it destructive to the Democratic party. But I don’t find it any more pleasant to hear contemptuous stereotyping from those who are supporting the same candidate as I am. Sometimes it seems as if people not only are aware of the right-wing stereotypes and how they’re used, but they’ve also internalized them into their own outlook.

        • TeakwoodKite

          A glass of Ravenswood Merlot will usually “improve my mood”.

          • shoephone

            TWK – you’re such a snob!


            • TeakWoodKite

              Ok OK; a bottle then. :)

              • simon

                And we like a drunk, especially an elitist drunk.


          • LandOLincoln

            TWK, a glass of Ravenswood would improve my mood too–if I could afford it. But I’m in the demographic that Obama and the Oborgs believe to be disposable.

            We’re also the demographic that will sink him, if we can get our shit together in time.

            In the meantime, I’d raise a glass of Vendange Merlot–if I could even afford that. 😉

          • aphra

            This fellow Clinton supporter would like to thank you for getting your snide on. I ain’t exactly rolling in it–we rent, it’s only recently that I’ve even been able to go to the doctor after 20 years of doing without because I didn’t have insurance.

            If I wasn’t clear enough earlier, I don’t agree with what MoveOn did. I unsubbed. It’s the thoughtless stereotyping I’ve seen here I take exception to. I’ve had quite enough of that directed my way from Obama supporters, but hearing snap judgments coming from my own side is even less appealing because I kinda thought Clinton supporters were generally better than that.

            Whatever. Have a good day.

            • TeakWoodKite

              I meant no disrespect Aphra, In fact I thought it was the stereotype I was attacking in a satirical manner, which I admit is my “Defense against the Dark Arts”.

              My first job as a kid was working at the The Wine Cask in Harvard Square, Boston while I looked for a place to rent and at attend college. I learned two things in the short time I was employed there.

              1) The same barrel of “expensive wine” is also bottled for “cheap” mass distribution.

              2) The security guard, who was African American, literally ducked on occasion when confronted, telling me he did not want to be killed while holding a minimum wage job by racially motivated individuals.

              Sincerely, I would gladly join you at Peter Pans dinner table and toast you, imaginary refreshments included at no charge. I can not say to you I know what it is like not have health care for 20 years and am truly glad you have them now. One family out of 50 million. Be well.

              • aphra

                Thanks for your reply, and my apologies for having misunderstood your comment. I hope Feb. 5 comes soon because I’m rather tightly wound right now. 😉

                I toast you back. Salud!

            • Hope

              This is an online forum, not a social club. Don’t take things personally.

              • aphra

                I can hardly take it personally when it’s apparent you have issues with an entire region of millions of people.

                I went to Clinton’s rally on Friday in San Jose. There was a crowd of well over 4000 people who as far as I could see were pretty representative of the Bay Area as a whole–a variety of ages, ethnicities and walks of life. I think Sen. Clinton will do very well in the Bay Area.

                That’s real life, not an online forum.

      • anna shame

        Hillary is the working class candidate, supported by single moms, young married women who have to work and take care of kids, those without access to health care. the one place where Obama might have distinguished himself, the war, he didn’t, instead he pretended it was started by Hillary and she made that decision. He knows better, he’s pandering to his base. He made some good speeches, when they were worthless, and now that he has a shot at the dream his rhetoric does not match his candor. I also resign from, after many years and many dollars. I voted against making any endorsement. But those who are rabidly against Hillary don’t care about the experience or the competence factor, they don’t care about fixing the Bush mess, they care about ‘feeling good’ with their votes and damn the working class. When she wins it’ll be great to seem them have to come down to earth. If he grabs it it’ll be awful to see them come down to earth, they’ll be taking the rest of us with them. I have a dream too, a dream of professionalism and competence, where the job goes to the one best qualified who actually has the most progressive record and agenda. I doubt one of those ‘guys’ wants health insurance, they’re gonna live forever.

        • Nellie

          I also resigned.

        • Victor

          Except that they won’t come down to earth. They will do to a new President Clinton what the far left did to the last President Clinton. No democratic president can ever be good enough for these people.

          Here is my prediction. If she gets the nomination, et all will work to get her elected. They may hate her, but they really won’t have a choice. If she wins the general election they will start to critisize her shortly after she starts her tenure. Why? Because her policies will have the taint of reality and compromise. They won’t be ideologically pure

          This is one thing that drives me nuts about the liberal blogs and political organizations. They think they voice the opinions of the common liberal. The reality is that they don’t even know who the common liberal is.

  • grtphoto

    I couldn’t agree with you more, Larry. When I saw the results, and I voted, I was beside myself. If he is the nominee I will not be able to vote for him. In the email from MoveOn they display some of the quotes from voters, they are just as vacant of content as Barack’s own rhetoric. I hope that we don’t get to say “I told you so” with an inept, unqualified Obama administration.

    • EvelynFrances

      Many people say Barack Obama has no experience well Geroge W, Bush had lots of expreience and look where it got us: a war, a plummeting economy, high food prices, high gasoline prices, new laws passed challenging our freedoms with he excuse that its because of homeland security.
      Presiden Bill Clinton voted for the war on iraq while still president way before 9/11, they showed the documents that he had signed on televison a couple of years ago, Hillary Clinton voted for the war while senator of course and then later she voted to increase the spending on the war. She is a republican in democrat sheeps clothing/