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MoveOn.org, The Great Enabler

By Larry Johnson on February 1, 2008 at 8:51 PM in Current Affairs

(Okay, I’ve calmed down. Here’s a less vitriolic take on today’s escapades.)

If you are starved for comedy look no further than today’s endorsement of Barack for President by MoveOn.org. Hopefully most of you can remember what happened last year when MoveOn posted its ad accusing General David Petraeus of betraying the troops (good old General Betrayus).

Well that stunt gave the Republicans, and even some Democrats, a case of the vapors. How dare those lefty, commie bastards impugn the integrity and honor of a great American who is putting his ~~career~~ er I mean, his life on the line. The right rallied and the Senate voted to condemn MoveOn for the unAmerican act of criticizing a policy. Goddamn those leftists. Thank God there were some politicians ready to criticize MoveOn.

The public by and large felt that MoveOn had crossed the line of appropriate protest. So what would be the politically safe thing to do–join the mob and vote to condemn or, better yet, just declare it a silly gesture and do nothing. The crazy thing to do, if you are eager to pander to the mainstream of America, is to stand with MoveOn. Right?

Now here’s the funny part. There’s this JFK reincarnation, a guy named Barack Obama. He’s into “new” politics. He’s not up for any of that old hat partisan bickering. No sirree!! Not Obama. All about hope. So when it came to the principle of not joining the bandwagon to condemn MoveOn, Barack did what any other person disinterested in fundamental rights would do. He voted present. Why take a stand on such a silly issue? You see, he was running for President and could not afford to dirty himself up in standing on behalf of MoveOn.

Only 22 Democratic Senators had the balls to defend the right of the leftist extreme to criticize a U.S. General during a time of war. One of those was Hillary Clinton. Does anybody think she was angling to get the nod from MoveOn? Hell, in a general election, MoveOn’s support is as welcome as a cactus plant at a nudist camp.

Well thank God! MoveOn was not going to sell its soul or its endorsement to someone who stood up for them when almost 80 members of the Senate voted against them or said nothing. No way. They threw their support to Obama. He’s the man with a record–when the going gets tough, he votes present. Taking a stand on an issue might be perceived as “partisan.” God knows, that’s old style politics.

Kudos to MoveOn. You’ve sent a clear message–if you don’t stand with us in our hour of need, we will back you. And you wonder why the rightwing calls it the loony left. Time to move on, MoveOn.

chris

Larry,

they took a vote and Obama won 7 to 3. What were they supposed to do as a people-powered organization?

Sometime-CIA-Defender

Wait until after Tuesday.
norris morris

They have never endorsed a candidate before. They have many members of all political parts of the progressive movement.

This was not only stupid, it shows the level of opportunism on the part of Obama and MoveOn. I and at least 100 of my friends [and more] have resigned and want nothing to do with what should have been a neutral position.

Obama always voted “present” in Illinois, or abstained in the US Senate when issues were dicey and didn’t have to commit. A major sleaze job that gets away with dreck as he preaches purity,ethics and hope. His resume in Chicago is major bad. After Petraeuas you would think some measured rational thought would be applied. MoveOn has run off the cliff.
http://wiskeytangofoxtrotoscar.blogspot.com/ James

Not ask in the first place. If HRC gets the nod, they look stupid and out of touch. Cooler heads would have waited for the convention.
http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

Yeah. My daughter voted and said it was awful to see the results. I told her to resign. A lot of my friends resigned today. MoveOn’s not in touch with reality. Isn’t it run by a bunch of Silicon Valley millionaires? What do they know about real life and real politics?

I resigned a while ago.

ANOTHER THING: Turncoat Barack Obama refused to help the Democratic nominee Ned Lamont in the race that forced Joe Lieberman to run as an Independent to try to retain his senate seat (and his powerful committee assignments). Hillary Clinton came to Connecticut and held a fundraiser for him. Granted, a lot of Democratic senators were put in a very awkward position re Lieberman/Lamont, given that Lieberman was likely to win running as an Independent, and they didn’t want to burn all their bridges with him. But that’s another instance in which Hillary Clinton stood with her party and supported the party’s candidate — a difficult position to take — unlike Obama, who infuriated the Lamont campaign.

CK

Susan,
As I recall it, Lieberman was the first Dem to stick a knife in Bill’s back over the Monica thing. But he made up for it by killing the Gore run for the presidency so maybe that makes it all square and even. Who has Lamont endorsed? Obama on Jan 10th.
Cee

Turncoat Barack Obama refused to help the Democratic nominee Ned Lamont

Untrue.

HARTFORD, Conn. — Democratic Sen. Barack Obama, a vocal defender of Sen. Joe Lieberman earlier this year, is urging Connecticut voters to rally behind his rival, Ned Lamont.

The Illinois senator and potential 2008 presidential candidate sent an e-mail message Thursday praising Lamont.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/26/AR2006102601187.html

Steve Judd

Actually, Cee, thanks for making the thread’s point, because this is the classic Barack move well known to those who have followed his career over the years. According to the story, he sent an e-mail to his Connecticut e-mail list a few days before the election?? (The story is date stamped “October 26th”, a fact you, uh, omitted.)

Tell me about fundraisers he hosted or even attended, or a rally where his soaring oratory extolled Lamont, or even that he knocked on a few doors, beaming candidate in tow. Then I might change my view.

But (apparently) one lousy e-mail? To people who probably were going to vote for Lamont anyway? Talk about a Profile In Courage! Oh, please.

But as you make clear, the story served its purpose; namely, providing Barack cover should anyone start asking hey, where the hell were you when things got tough? Yup, this sure as hell is the guy I want in the room when the insurance industry tells Democrats to go screw themselves.

Hope

Susan from personal experience regarding the Silicon Valley types: What do they know about real life? As one who was married to a SV snit-twit – NOTHING!
chris

Exactly Susan,

Either I’ve been hanging out here too long and ya’lz great coolaid is my blend, or MoveOn has their head up their ass, or both!

I jumped ship on one of my two emails a year ago when they went from “make your representative hold out on funding Iraq war” to…”ok, well compromise is acceptable because it won’t..” blah blah, middle ground washed out, can’t hold your freaking ground in the face of some griping and whining by that piece of crap Tucker Hannity Limboulter or whatever that turtleneck guy who sits with Tucker Hannity Limboulter’s name is….

MoveOn hasn’t really been as good at converting the point as they’d like to think, and I can only hope some thinking people were quite aware of what was wrong with their little poll.

I get their voting note and am given 2 choices and a comment field.

I chose….neither…except there wasn’t a button. So I wrote, “i want you to endorse, neither candidate.” and clicked enter or submit or whatever they have it called.

It recycles and in blaring red text:

YOU MUST PICK A CANDIDATE

I Must WHAAAA?
(insert my genetic Scottish/Bohemian resistance coil as it freaks out over such a limited thinking world that I’m gonna have to headbut Eli Pariser myself!!!!) and suddenly I saw how they weren’t ready for the great revolution they parade themselves to be.

Now don’t get me wrong, the networking power could have been worth something, but essentially, I get notices with about a dozen names, and many times they are factually inaccurate about my local respresentatives record, or alarmist then retreating.

So, I unsubscribed today too. MoveOn, Move On.

Interesting enough, I got a note in response that was even more hilarious than the organization itself now:

“You’ve been permanently unsubscribed from the MoveOn list — if you take no more action, this’ll be the last email you get from us. But please don’t go!

MoveOn gets its power from its members — we’re just 3 million people working together to change the world. But we know some folks are too busy to follow every last email.

So, we’ve developed a once-weekly newsletter to keep those folks informed. We’ll only send you the most critical messages, and we won’t email you more than once a week in any case. Want to sign up? ”

We’re just 3 million people? how many of those are ‘Move On’ and how many are simply getting talking points of a dozen folks?

And it ends my departure with..”want to sign up?”
nah…think its time I just moved on.
SirScud

Obsessively promoting H. Clinton is one thing, but making up nasty little pieces of disinformation about the work of others who have simply made a different political choice, is too Rovian to ignore.
In the name of truth, what is your source for this closet innuendo:

MoveOn’s not in touch with reality. Isn’t it run by a bunch of Silicon Valley millionaires? What do they know about real life and real politics?

On the slim chance that your poisoned little mind is interested in an actual fact regarding Move-On’s founders and staff; it is not now, nor has it ever been “run” by anyone in or of Silicon Valley.
Good luck with your “Lee Atwater” stategy of slander, slime, and misinformation, it really seems to be working well in the recent primaries.
You don’t mind if us naive Progressives quote some of your material in one of our ads, do ya?
Especially that Kenya story! Hell,that one is right out of Ann Coulter’s play book. I’ll show you my picture of the Clinton’s posing with “Obama’s Bagman” at a fundraiser, if you show me proof of any of your musings about Move-On.

themomcat

Neutral in the primaries would have been the better move. They never should have entertained this “vote”. They have lost my contributions and I have requested they remove me from their e-mail list.

Sometime-CIA-Defender

Larry, we are so similar with the temper thing. I try to wait until I calm down to blog, but sometimes I can’t help myself.

It is dumb for them to do this. For cryin’ out loud, the reason they’re called ‘MoveOn’ is because they wanted us to move on from the Lewinsky thing.

Retired

It appears that in Move On’s twisted perspective, there is no better way to “move on from the Lewinsky thing” than to move on from the Clintons themselves, both of them. Hey, they don’t want your opinion. They just want your money. What was your credit card number, again?

Sally

Many people will remember that “MoveOn” reportedly did something nasty, can’t recall what it was, but today MoveOn is endorsing BO so BO must be nasty, too. Right on, MoveOn. As a Clinton supporter, I love it.

MoveOn’s endorsement of BO makes as much sense as those tightly wound BO supporters who make no sense whatsoever and have no idea what they are supporting since BO hasn’t figured it out. BO doesn’t understand that after Day One, comes Day Two, etc. Good luck, white-wine drinkers. BO’s “change” and a few dollars will get you a glass of wine. Here’s to you, wise ones.
Taters

Amen Larry.
OldCoastie

I suspect if Obama gets the nom, the repugs will tie the Move On endorsement tightly around his neck… an albatross it is…
ybnormal

Basically the moveon BO endorsement was stupidly divisive, as well as premature. If their goal was to unite us all to move on to a more progressive future, this will backfire. Would’ve been smarter to wait at least until after super Tuesday.

They shoot their wad in an early battle, pitting left vs left. While there’s some loss of a few HRC subscribers who withdraw their subscriptions; the bigger loss will be the former loyal Republicans who switched to Dem in ’06, and may come to regret the conversion, when they witness how quickly the “progressive” left resorts to cannibalism and eats it’s own.
http://www.despair.com/idiocy.html Smilin’ Jim

“General David Petraeus”

Well at least he didn’t quote Navarre in his testimony……

This is slightly OT but you might be wired in better than I. Nagl is leaving, will McMaster be passed over again?

“There’s this JFK reincarnation”
You say tomota I say tomayto……..

I don’t see JFK.

What I do see is George McGovern. Perhaps that is why this is such a generational clash, maybe the yuppies do not remember McGovern and maybe not even the Mondale or Dukakis debacles.

The McGovern episode made an impact on me, mainly because I was canvassing for him in West Seattle at the time. I had a worm’s eye view on that bloodbath.

I see deja vu all over again.
CK

Damn Obama is doing a new line of neckware. Rezko,Madrassa,present-votes,move-on, african cousin ties.
Sourced from Dupont, made from teflon.
Non-stick but if you heat them hot enough they will kill all your albatrosses.
I wonder if Hillary encouraged move-on to announce support for Obama this close to super Tuesday. Nothing that happens between tonite and sunday night will get any coverage; there being some kind of sporting event this weekend, then Monday and either Boston or NYC or both have to clean up from the expected trashing on Sunday night, and then poof primary day hits. What a perfect weekend to attack Iran.

TeakWoodKite

What a perfect weekend to attack Iran.
Will it be a sunny day?

You forgot “run on and by Nuclear power?”

CK

There was a once in a hundred year snowfall in Baghdad the other day. It snowed in jerusalem the 30th. Here is the 5 day for Tehran:
http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/40754.html
looks to be cold, cloudy, overcast and generally nasty. You are correct, I did forget about their MIRVed ICBMs.

neil

I’m disappointed that MoveOn has decided to risk irrelevancy in the general election by choosing sides this early in the contest.

I think they should be positioning themselves to be a bridge-builder between Clinton and Obama supporters who – if the comments sections here and in other places is any indication – are becoming more divided and acrimonious by the day. Instead, they’ve become a player in the debate and have chosen sides – very Democratically, of course. However, I in no way endorse their decision to hold that “vote” now.

I’m an Edwards supporter – but I’m one of those weirdos who actually likes both candidates – so I’m completely torn at the moment – and I’ve got only three days to decide.

Maybe a ticket is a good idea. I think together, they beat McCain. Seperately, they’ve got more of a dogfight.

http://www.despair.com/idiocy.html Smilin’ Jim

“Maybe a ticket is a good idea”

I think that pulling two Democrats out of the Senate is risky.

Edwards would be the better choice as a VP since he’s at loose ends now.

TeakWoodKite

Richardson?

http://www.despair.com/idiocy.html Smilin’ Jim

Good choice.

TeakWoodKite

Bill and he were said to be attending the game…Got me thinking Demographics….And Yes I think believe it would be.
TeakWoodKite

He and Bill were said to be attending the Game. Got me thinking.

chris

This was a bit of my logic about trying to tell them not to endorse either, but no…what does a “move on member” need to tell them anything. problem solved, unsubscribed.

gqmartinez

I agree with Larry that this is about more than just who MoveOn endorsed. It also says a lot about members of MoveOn who supported them during the Patreaus uproar yet so willingly endorsed a candidate that left them out to dry.

I’ve long since abandoned moveOn because they seem more interested in pandering to the cause of the day than in taking principled stands and looking long term. But Obama’s whole support base from Liberals rests on continual forgiveness: Social Security, health care, “present” on women’s rights, MoveOn censure, etc. When Obama has to take a stand, i have no idea where he will come down. I don’t want to “hope” he’ll do what I think is right. All I know is that on the toughest issues he is present or absent.
http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

Here’s a good diary at DailyKos on MoveOn’s action written by a person who’s not pro-Obama or pro-Clinton:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/1/22158/70773/432/448059

One snippet:

I wish that MoveOn had refrained from endorsing either person in this particular race. Judging from the number of people who have quit their organization over this today, their action is clearly dividing liberal/progressive forces in this country and diverting attention and resources away from the FAR more important fight against conservative ideology.

Gee, that sounds familiar. “Diverting attention” — just like their god awful, stupid Petreaus ad diverted attention and became THE talk, instead of the war in Iraq and the Bush administration’s attempts to keep justifying the huge costs in life and treasure.
Fred C. Dobbs

>>> I don’t see JFK.
>>> What I do see is George McGovern.

Naw. Gary Hart. Or Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

C’mon, NorCal Limousine Liberals! Don those orange robes! Buy Obama a Rolls!!!

TeakWoodKite

Just remember the airport they all fly into with the all those fine sleak Lears I see on approach all the time is named the “Charles Schultz Airport”.

The funny about it is Karl Rove is still trying to pick him self of the floor from laughing so hard. They were going to demonize this group and what do ya know? The folks at move on “dot” org did it for them. To this day I will never understand why an organization would be so politically deaf dumb and blind to not be aware of the raw meat they GAVE the “tweaker rethugs” when the General was called a traitor. These boneheads killed the messenger and any hope of “change”.

Fred C. Dobbs

There’s an old, tasteless, applicable-to-any-ethnic-group joke, the punchline to which is:

“Here. Hit my hand!”

Describes moveon.org’s little dido perfectly.

With friends like them, the Progressive movement doesn’t need a lot of enemies, does it?

DISCLAIMER: All my ethnic jokes now refer to a very, very small minority of US residents, to wit, Left-Handed, albino Zoroastrians.

As in: “Two Left-Handed, Albino Zoroastrians walked into a bar…”

TeakWoodKite

Zoroastrians
learn something new every day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

Fred C. Dobbs

This is an up shot of a pseudo-philosophocal discussion (and poker game) wherein the question was asked: Is the American model of humor possible other than at the expense of others?

The answer was, No.

In the spirit if my old flight instructor, whose advice was: “In the event of an emergency landing, endeavor to hit the lowest, softest, cheapest thing available, and hit it as slowly as possible,” we positied that the smallest possible identifiable ethno/racial/religious group in America (besides Amblyopic Lithuanian Ba’hais, who have little humor value) would be Left-Handed, Albino Zoroastrians.

We adjusted our stock jokes and anecdotes accordingly.

Fortunately for our careers and the children we all wound up spending our weekends with, we stopped smoking that stuff and switched to Jim Beam.

TeakWoodKite

In the spirit if my old flight instructor Thanks.
Mine said “don’t let go on approach”, which happened to him when a student let go at 250ft. freaking out. He switched to Jim Beam as well.

TeakWoodKite

Did you see the landing just like your intructor described on the news tonight, outside Trinidad,Brazil? All souls walked a way. Amazing.

John

I’d like to point out that the poll results aren’t even being shown honestly: there was a third option- “Delay Endorsement,” which I and many of my friends selected- yet when MoveOn releases the results, the votes for Clinton and Obama equal 100%.

MoveOn only ran this poll because they knew Obama would win. I’m pretty close to saying to hell with the whole thing, go ahead and nominate Obama, but please, you idiot star-gazers, don’t come running to me crying when your hero wins six states and a hundred electoral votes come November.

chris

I didn’t see that option to “delay endorsement” and couldn’t avoid voting for either (as their endorsement).

Also, this was a quick 24 hour notice thing, what the hell kind of endorsement do you get when you pop quiz 3,000,000 members?

What the hell?

TeakWoodKite

That is what a Diebold machine is designed to do as well. POP quiz for the country. Crazy isn’t?

shirin

You guys are obsessed! It’s getting to be a sickness!

Hope

See Sickness.

TrishB

Today, I unsubscribed, quit, however you’d like to describe it. Dividing Democratic candidates and their supporters is not why I joined MoveOn. It was a protest against the abysmal policies of the current administration. I hoped that it would continue as a fight against the new GOP nominee.
Hope

Larry – don’t ever calm down! It is refreshing to hear someone just tell it like it is and not mince words.

TeakWoodKite

As long as Larry doesn’t blow a gasket I agree Hope.

http://cujo359.blogspot.com Cujo359

I think MoveOn.org’s time has passed. The General Betrayus ad was stupid for what should be obvious reasons. It honked off some peole and educated no one. This move is just one more sign that they need a dose of reality over there. Obama’s policy positions, when they can even be accorded that term, are generally less progressive than Clinton’s. Why would a progressive organization support him?
ybnormal

There is really something eerie about the hop-on-the-Obama-train thing. Something vaguely cult-like. Why do people turn and support someone who previously dropped them like a hot potato. No need to explain how anything is supposed to work. Just follow the guy who tells you what you want to hear, period.

This is the aspect that reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode, To Serve Man
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5752383157717584836
Mr.Murder

The myth of a single dominant persona as leader is like the myth of American exceptionalism, or even in today’s world the myth of a super power.

grtphoto

Exactly right, there is no savior on a white horse. Americans are continually dillusional about a new hope saving us, but it never happens. Rather than real change/revolutionary action, we just assume the next “guy” is enough to provide something new. Obama supporters will be enlightened soon enough when he cannot produce all of his miracles they so assume he will bring.

kenoshaMarge

I too unsubscribed as soon as I saw that MoveOn was endorsing Obama.
There are people out there in the liberal blogosphere telling me to calm down that once we know who the nominee is we will all forget our differences and come together. I don’t think so. I think that we are now to split to ever come back together. I would have held my nose and voted for Obama if he had been the nominee as I have held my nose so many times before. That was before the liberal blogosphere and the media conspired to bring down the Clintons.
I was a John Edwards supporter who has now decided to support Senator Hillary Clinton. I will not, even while holding my nose, vote for Obama.
Edith

Is MoveOn aware that Obama outted Valarie Plame??! Or was that one of their deciding factors?

chris

uh…hows that?

TeakWoodKite

Obama outted Valarie Plame?
I saw this mentioned but thought it was in jest?
Taters

Well put Larry.
Despite the the stupidity of MoveOn’s Petraeus ad, HRC voted her conscience in supporting their constitutional right to voice their idiotic ad – which put Dems on defense fo a couple of weeks, and was perfectly played into the waiting arms of the right’s playbook.
If Sen. Obama has such a lack of courage in voting his conscience, how could he ever ask anyone to stand in harm’s way as CinC?
No points for moral cowardice and MoveOn which has shown a more than ample supply of – and in their enabling of standing by someone who did not make a stand on the constitution.

1. Vote your Conscience
2. Vote for your Constituents
3. Then vote your Party.
http://makethemaccountable.com Carolyn Kay

MOVEON BETRAYS US

Please remember that MoveOn was formed in reaction to the get-Bill-Clinton juggernaut. It started as an email group to put pressure on Congress to censure President Clinton for his transgressions AND THEN MOVE ON. Now, it seems, the members have decided to abandon his wife, who stood by him in that difficult time.

Also, there is anecdotal evidence that members received emails saying that they had voted for Obama, when they had not. Was Diebold running this vote?

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
Donovan Fraser

Move on can say what they want, who cares? this is a free country ( or it used to be) like it or hate it, soldiers are supposed to have Died for this God given right of free speech. This also includes hateful ill informed speech. from white supremacist, to Louis Farakan, in America we let them say what they want. We don’t always like what they say, but we get passed it.

Let’s not dwell on Moveon.org’s actions…It’s white noise…Endorsements don’t amount to much in swaying voters anyhow.. Let’s be for real. If it did, the main stream media could (as it has tried) just tell us who to vote for. If they can’t sway a population in a particular direction ( given that they have the keys to the mind of the masses) then no one can….

who cares if Kennedy or Soros, or bill O’reilly endorse a candidate. It means absolutely nothing . For Gods sake, Coultergeist said she back Hillary over McCain. that tells me nothing other than HELL HAS INDEED FROZEN OVER.

chris

You’ve missed the point of many comments here Donovan. Right to an opinion, and a right to commit fraud are not mutual.

If MoveOn.org claims 3.2 million people as members…and they are claiming to have a “endorsed” based on members, but 91.2% members didn’t vote…
Then the NewsPapers….they pick it up and say…
“Barack Obama’s progressive creditials were lent credibility by the endorsement of influential Leftist Pressure Organization, MoveOn.org. MoveOn claims 3.2 million members.”

I really wish commenters around here would spend less time impugning the motivations of people who are pointing out the flaws with MoveOn, Obama, Clinton or other and deal with the substance.

If MoveOn is creating an illusion that they have 3.2 million users…then that illusion should be dispelled.
If MoveOn polled an insignificant base and then made it look significant, that is fraud.

“LET’S BE FOR REAL”
Thats what this blog is attempting to do, and you’re missing the tune.

IGNORE THAT IT ENDORSES OBAMA, and notice that it is a fraud.

Donovan Fraser

I am a member of Moveon.org but they don’t speak for me. It’s just a blog. they can SAY anything they want. that doesn’t mean its true. getting upset is just driving our blood pressure up for no reason. I am just saying , take everything with a grain of salt.

chris

“They Can Say ANything They Want”
Fine, and I can work to expose them as a fraud.

And what is the use of you being a member if they don’t speak for you? I wouldn’t want to be a member of their organization if they supported David Duke.

I don’t care what they stood for, just that they are acting fraudulently. They claim they will only endorse with a 2/3s and that didn’t happen. They show that 10% responded and then posted the results. Poor planning and fraudulent presentation.

Next? If you have a blood pressure problem reading posts, I’d avoid the net, and see a doc.

Jim H.

Hmmm….if there was only a candidate that voted not to go into Iraq in the first place, someone that knows it was blowback that we’ve lost our standing in the world, someone that knows that our empire cannot continue because we’ve spent beyond our means, that the Military/ Industrial/ Banking/ Pharmacutical/ Insurance/ Complex uses all our tax dollars to finance their scams, someone that says we must investigate how we got into this mess (Iraq) so it never happens again. Someone that wants to restore the Constitution and have a smaller government because a bigger one just creates the clusterfuck we have now.
Once you have your MSM/ DailyKos/ MoveOn/ AIPAC/ Corporate Friendly candidate approved, you can vote for whoever you want but it will be nothing more than “putting lipstick on the pig”
Long Live the R3VOLution
Ron Paul 2008

Gwen

Obama was sitting in his arm chair in Illinois when the U.S. Senators voted on the Iraq Resolution. He was not there in Washington on the hotseat with the other elected Senators so it is easy for him to sit back and say that he wouldn’t have voted for it. B.S. There is no opportunity to vote “present” in the Senate–you have to make a decision and live by it.

Dream

If online Internet polls were an accurate measurement of public support for a candidate, the two major party nominees would be Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul — they won all the Internet polls I saw a month or two back when both were still active candidates.

Online polls are notoriously UN-scientific measurements of public opinion and are widely scorned as such.

Yet, MoveOn.org — a group I have belonged to ever since it’s very first online petition (during the Clinton impeachment follies) asking the government to stop with the nonsense and “move on” — is accepting an online Internet vote result and taking PARTISAN sides in a Democratic primary.

This organization that did so much to unite Democrats in the past is — for the first time in its history — going to back one Democrat against another in a primary election. And its action is based on online polling which any fool knows can be manipulated so some people can vote multiple times.

For shame.

Shame on MoveOn.org.

Barack Obama insulted Ted Kennedy a while back and told Ted to “get a spine,” so Ted Kennedy endorsed Obama!

Obama did not vote (in the senate) to protect MoveOn.org’s first amendment freedom to express an opinion free from federal government censure, so MoveOn is endorsing Obama!

Maybe some people just like to be slapped around.

“Only 22 Democratic Senators had the balls to defend the right of the leftist extreme [including MoveOn] to criticize a U.S. General during a time of war. One of those was Hillary Clinton.”

Yes, Hillary Clinton defended MoveOn’s right to express a negative opinion about a General, but Obama ran for the hills and hid.

Barack Obama is no better or worse than any other politician, he’s just a guy who wants to get elected and will use any means he can to achieve that goal.

Obama did the safe thing and did NOT support MoveOn when MoveOn was being attacked, so MoveOn is going to bat for him!

Who knew the thing to do is smack people around and not defend them when they need support?

TeakWoodKite

Who knew the thing to do is smack people around and not defend them when they need support?
Kinda’ like torture?

It seems like this is what happens when the rules are “every man for themselves”. I thought it was a foxhole, but instead it turns out to be a rabbithole that conventional wisdom fell into. There isn’t a rope long enough to render assistance with in this case.

touchet

You know whats interesting go look on the Illonois State Sentate page and look up their rules. Here i’ll give you a link

http://www.ilga.gov/senate/95thSenateRules.pdf

see the binoculars on the side of the screen click on that and type “Present”. Search all the rules for the term present vote.

what you will find is that there is no “present” vote on the floor of that senate. If you intent to vote present, you have to submit a “writ of intent” to vote present with 2 other members. At that time the bill will go back for review to the rules committe.

The rules make it clear, if you don’t have the support to send a bill back for review, then voting present on the floor means the same as a no vote.

Here are the specific rules:

(Senate Rule 1-9)
1-9. Majority. “Majority” means a simple majority of those
members present and voting on a question. Unless otherwise
specified with respect to a particular Senate Rule, for
purposes of determining the number of members present and
voting on a question, a “present” vote shall not be counted.
(Source: S.R. 2, 95th G.A.)

(Senate Rule 6-1)

(c) The Secretary shall periodically print a Resolutions
Consent Calendar, which the Secretary shall periodically
distribute prior to its consideration by the Senate (generally
the last daily session of the week). No debate is in order
regarding any resolution appearing on the Resolutions Consent
Calendar. All resolutions appearing on the Resolutions Consent
Calendar may be adopted in one motion; however, any Senator may
vote “no” or “present” on any resolution appearing on the
Resolutions Consent Calendar by providing written notice of
that intention to the Secretary prior to the vote on the
Resolutions Consent Calendar. Prior to the adoption of any
resolution on the Resolutions Consent Calendar, if any three
members file with the Secretary a written objection to the
presence of a resolution thereon, that resolution shall be
removed from the Resolutions Consent Calendar and is
automatically referred to the Rules Committee.
(Source: S.R. 2, 95th G.A.)

(Senate Rule 7-15)
7-15. Reconsideration.

(e) A Senator who voted “present” or failed to vote on a
question shall not have the right to move for reconsideration.

TeakWoodKite

Filabuster by other means?

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Dream

I have been with MoveOn from their first days, but I wrote and told MoveOn to take me off their list.

I am totally disgusted with this divisive action of theirs; it can only hurt the Democrats in Nov.
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http://makethemaccountable.com Carolyn Kay

Chris, how’s this for addressing what’s important?

We Illinois progressives sent Obama to the U.S. Senate, where he promptly joined the Joe Lieberman wing of the Democratic Party.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/01/national-journal-rates-obama-1-liberal-senator/

His economic advisors are very conservative, from the University of Chicago-Milton Friedman school of economics.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080211/fraser

My favorite economist, Paul Krugman, caught Obama using right-wing talking points on what to do about Social Security
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/opinion/16krugman.html

and about his health care plan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/opinion/30krugman.html

And his chief political adviser is a Daley machine strategist.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/magazine/01axelrod.t.html

I’m not saying that Clinton is perfect, but I am saying that her proposals are more progressive than Obama’s. And that’s why I’ll be voting for her on Tuesday.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
anatol

Larry,

What happened to the copy of your post on TPMCafe? Its not there any longer. Is this a technical glitch or an act of censorship?

Thanks,

–Anatol