Is Prohibition on the Horizon Again?

bert, I’m ag’in’ it.

It’s not hard to home-brew beer. If you’re going to tax sin, there’s plenty of sins more lucrative than beer. If there were only some workable way to tax fornication, the budget crisis would be over.

Yes guess many mom and pop breweries will open in garages in the neighbourhood that is if one has the ability to keep their homes!

Good Lord…the one solace we have, our booze. Sigh. Guess I’ll start making bathtub gin to go along with my homegrown food.

I don’t have a problem with tax being raised somewhat. I read about this story a few days ago and hasn’t the tax been the same since 1984 or something like that? If so, then a tax increase wouldn’t seem terribly out of line. But a 1900% increase? Way, way too much and horribly unfair.

Prohibition will actually be put in reverse.
The jails are full and law inforcement spends to much on the war on drugs and like a bad sore money in the underground market leaves this country and fuels our enemies.
Empty the jails and legalize
Tax the green stuff now.

This country can’t support this ridiculous war any longer

LOL

and I can throw some hand made narural soap your way to wash off all the stress…

So where going full circle remember Momma used to say, “homemade from the heart” is always better…

Well keep in mind, in my state there is a very strict limit to the amount of home brewed beer you can produce and store at any one time. The alcohol lobby certainly does not want home brewers to compete with businesses. So not only could the tax increase 1900% but home brewers could be hampered legally too. Does anyone know what Oregon law says regarding home brewing of beer for personal consumption?

Then don’t drink.

Or…start paying income tax.

I lived in Oregon and even bought a truck there (saved $1500 because of no sales tax). Everytime I hear someone from Oregon bitch and moan about some new tax in Oregon, I just roll my eyes. You don’t have sales tax, people!!!

The people of Oregon are so scared of even a 1% or 2% sales tax, that the schools are underfunded, their property taxes are sky high, and local food/drink taxes are high.

I pay 8.25% sales tax in Texas. I’m sure that would more than cover a whino tax.

Life ain’t free.

sheesh!!!

Oregon may not have sales tax, but they have state income taxes. And their food/ beverages/cigs/alcohol cost way less then it does here in Wa which is full of sin taxes and sales taxes.

Or maybe tax prostitution?????

Gee, if they want to tax “sin”, there are plenty:

rape
murder
theft
assault
fraud
giving birth to illegitimate children

I agree…legalize and tax the green stuff too. Let everyone out in prison for that which I think is stupid anyway.

I grew up on a ranch, so I know about making do when need be. I just tilled up about half of my Florida subdivision backyard for a garden and am putting in shallow well points to water it… just in case. Better to have more food than we need, than to need food and the grocery is out, because they couldn’t get any. I remember in high school under Jimmy Carter, my folks going to the store for bread… regular bread and they were out of it. No bread on the shelves. What then? Better safe than sorry.

Didn’t one state recently let most of the non-violent drug detainees go? Said they couldn’t afford to keep them in this economy anymore. I think I read that some where, or maybe heard it on the radio.

It’s time to go throw the beer in the harbor in a tax protest! Oh wait, what am I saying? Let’s keep the beer and toss the politicians in the harbor instead.

This is a really bad idea because about all that’s stimulating local economies at the moment is micro brewing. If you tax them right out of business, the Gov won’t be getting any revenue and they’ll wind up paying unemployment benefits. This is not a cost effective tax.

I guess it’s time to break out the backyard ‘stills again!

toss the politicians in the harbor instead.

I like the way you think, yttik.

Let’s get real here folks:

There are 31.5 U.S. gallons in a barrel

The average beer bottle = 12 ounces

There are 128 ounces in a gallon

So, there are 336 12-ounce bottles in a barrel

The proposed tax is $49.61 tax per barrel

That works out to $0.147 tax per bottle

I live in Oregon and, no, I’m not crazy about any new taxes… but, we’re also thinking about putting a $0.10 bottle return tax on bottled water. I think we’ll survive paying another $0.15 for a bottle of beer.
And, if you want to talk about legislating and morality, let’s take a look at state run lotteries and gambling – now there’s a gut churning excursion into state-sponsored misery…

Right, but my cost of living in Oregon was WAY lower than here in Texas.

OR State Income Tax (Annual) < TX Sales Tax (Annual)

My point was, that Oregon comes up with these other state and local taxes to overcome the lack of a sales tax, despite having a state income tax.

If you ate a meal in Ashland before seeing a Shakespeare production, you’d be paying 5% food tax. Drinks weren’t taxed.

This tax was established in 1990 and is the only voter approved sales tax in Oregon. A five percent tax is collected on all prepared food sold in Ashland. One percent is used to purchase open space for parks and four percent is used to offset the costs associated with the building of the new wastewater treatment plant. The tax expires on December 31st, 2010.

So all these tourists coming from California and elsewhere to see the fabulous Oregon coast don’t pay into the state income tax coffers, nor do they benefit the state’s people by paying a state sales tax. Cities and Counties are sorta on their own to make up budget differences.

Other differences aside, I’d rather be in Oregon.

My grandfather, who came to America at age 21 from Hungry where he was just a simple peasant, used to make dandelion wine. Every spring we walk to one of the city parks and he would gather bucket loads of dandelions and we would go home and he made his wine.

Yes Craig, if you figure it that way, it probably won’t be a lot per bottle. But why beer? This is striking at Joe Sixpack and getting him where he lives. I think this is politically and symbolically naive.

After looking at the numbers (thanks Craig Delle Penna), this does not look like such a disruptive tax.

Sales tax in Texas is 8.25%. Granted, we do not have a state tax, but we pay federal tax on monies earned – and then state/city tax when the money is spent… we are overtaxed in this country, that’s for sure. But this looks like a non-issue to me and I don’t see it breaking any beverage producers/consumers.

And I have to respond to wodiej and his list of *sins* to be taxed. When did “giving birth to illegitimate children” become a sin…and a sin on the level of rape and murder?? A hardship on the kid, for sure, but a sin? What century do you live in? Your posts are, at times, baffling.

You are both right.

This is not excessive and it would be fine if we were in a growth phase of our economy. No one would care.

But at this time you don’t raise taxes on anything without experiencing a negative response such as diminishing returns which will happen based on history.

They will pass on the cost to the consumer. Tourists will pay anything.

Oh, that’s really evocative, bert. My grandparents came from Hungary also, and they were “simple” peasants. My grandfather won a lottery, and was able to come here. But he never made dandelion wine, not that I know of! Have you read Dandelion Wine by Ray Bradbury? As I remember, it really delves into the romance of this concoction . . .

Bert,
The big problem with reducing the non violent drug users sentences right this moment is where do they go to get a job..We can’t afford to keep them in jail nor can we afford them once they’re released.

This problem goes further to our troops in Iraq. We can’t bring the troops home because there are no jobs. Sending them off to Afganistan/pakistan is the same type of works project as building roads.

I think you need to get use to it. Tax dollars are bleeding at the state level. Stimulus provides some relief to states, so we will have to see if it stops the states from having to find new sources of revenue.

Alexis,
I’m looking forward to opening my Speakeasy…

Then I’m going to get myself a cigarette boat and like my forefathers before me make sure the liquor doesn’t run dry.

Indeed. Thanks for the post Bert.

I have been talking about a slippery slope for years.
I’m very libertarian when it comes to peoples private lives and how they enjoy them…

We have allowed the government first with alcohol and then cigarettes to start the Nanny state and thus take away our freedoms.

WE need to stop..Extreme Nannyism!!

Thanks for this article, Bert. I live in Oregon. Didn’t know this bill was even being considered. Since our state is one of the top two in unemployment, why place a higher tax on beer when it could result in even more job losses. (shaking my head in disbelieve) You’d think the legislature would want to keep what jobs there are intact rather than threatening them. I continue to be astonished by the different state and federal lawmakers. And then there’s the Fraud in the White House…

All I can say is…

NQ party at Seattle’s pad!

Well, for those who haven’t read the Welfare Nanny State Crap Bill…the states who give out more free rides and Welfare Dollars apparently get more cash. And so the cycle begins again, undoing any and all Welfare Reform we ever had.

As for WodieJ…start looking for a massive run on illegitimate children because of AFDC being the new great fraud on our system again. And, as a result, we’ll get a bigger run on gang members, murderers, prisons filling up, etc. What a load of CRAP.

Well these snippets are from the socialist party platform:

We call for increased and expanded welfare assistance and increased and expanded unemployment compensation at 100% of a worker’s previous income or the minimum wage, whichever is higher, for the full period of unemployment or re-training, whichever is longer.

There are other interesting parallels:

We call for the creation of a fully funded high-speed national rail system with fares set low enough to be a viable alternative to the use of the automobile.

Look familiar?

I must speak up in wodiej’s defense. SHE (not male) is a good friend of mine, I’ve met her in person several times. Wodiej is very astute and sensible, and I appreciate and trust her judgement and discernment. She has every right to have strong opinions that you afford yourself in same.

I think the “giving birth to illegitimate children” was in reference to the ‘octomom’ that has been in the news by having so many children on the taxpayer’s dime. Yet has many dubious expenditures of monies that should have gone or go to the children but were spent on her own vanity instead. ‘Octomom’ claims it is not “welfare”, further raising eyebrows and outrage. A good many people feel this woman was sinful in ripping off the taxpayers by abusing her welfare benefits for her own personal gain.

Just listened to the unlistenable One about the housing bill. Could someone please tell me when the people who work hard everyday, pay their taxes, pay their mortgages, pay their other bills, all on time, ARE GOING TO GET A BREAK from these twits? That was a rhetorical question by the way. We are being driven away into the masses of the needy or, for those of us smart enough or sleazy(sorry, no offense meant) enough, into the ranks of the chosen. Which one will you get to? Sad. I just hope some action happens before all is lost to the minions of totalitarianism in America.

Docelder…Yup, looks familiar. The good news is that so many Americans who bought the Obama crap are waking up and don’t want his commie nonsense. It’s completely disgusting what Obama, Pelosi, Reid, etc. are trying to do to this country. No worries, they will get run out of Congress and the White House long before this country becomes Soviet Russia. What traitors those azzholes are and I hope somehow they are prosecuted as such when all the truth comes out.

LOL, we still do that around here! It was probably your grandpa who taught us. Dandelion wine is fabulous, kind of light and lemony and a bit like champagne.

You do want to drink it standing up though, so it doesn’t hit you all at once. We had a visitor once who claimed homemade wine didn’t have much alcohol in it…they he tried to stand up. It was entertaining.

Making beer is more complicated, but wine is a fairly easy and safe hobby to get into.

Snickers, I couldn’t believe they would do this either. Dumb.

I have been buying extra every week since November – just in case. I now have about a 3 month supply of food and water.

I didn’t grow up during the Great Depression, but my parents always talked about it, so I feel like I did.

True, Seattle. Thanks for injecting reality into the discussion.

A suburb of San Antonio wants to start charging like $55 dollars for calling 911. You can call it once, but after that….charges apply. WTF??????????

Again? People who choose gentle herbal euphoria over killing their brain cells and livers with ethanol have lived with prohibition and persecution for years. They’ll break down your door over a personal choice that affects no one but yourself. That’s a fact.

Had never heard of it till now. I will have to get a copy.

WOW! What a small world. In the first years of my grandparent’s life here in America they lived in a fenced and gated colony. Everyone worked for the man who owned it, he paid people in script, and they had to use the script to buy groceries and other goods. Talk about a racket. It was the goal of everyone there to get another job and move out. But it was a job and a house for an immigrant.

Great food from Hungry, by the way….paprikash, cabbage rolls. Makes me hungry.

And food, don’t forget food Seattle Moss. If I want to eat some high fat food, that is my business, not the government’s.

It would be interesting to put up the parts of the “stimulus” bill against the platform of the socialist party. I would venture there will be a very large parallel across the board… especially when factoring in this one:

We call for all financial and insurance institutions to be socially owned and operated by a democratically-controlled national banking authority, which should include credit unions, mutual insurance cooperatives, and cooperative state banks. In the meantime, we call for re-regulation of the banking and insurance industries.

Also familiar in an unsettling way.

Probably for reasons like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ12Ry-hD6I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j6bsDZM6IY

People won’t call anymore unless it’s about them. A burglar breaking into your home… you will call. You think somebody is breaking into your neighbors home… it’s $55 to be neighborly. I think it will have unintended negative consequences.

I was talking to one of my Obot friends this morning and even he has come around to saying the Crap Bill is nothing but CRAP. I asked him if he read it, or if he knew what was in it. He said no, not all of it, but he understands that most people are questioning whether it will help. It’s the worst piece of BS and it’s nothing but a socialist freak’s dream. I’m very scared for this country, but I have hope since Obama is losing so much support.

I get your points here and while you may think my point a digression – I must say…..

I don’t think it’s a good idea to re-enforce the old idea that alcoholism is a “moral” issue. It’s NOT. It is a disease. And of course, I realize as well that not all people who drink are alcoholics but those who do choose to drink “poison” should pay for it because those who do not drink pay for it with our insurance rates!

Ah yes–the “stuffed cabbage” was the best of all. My great-grandmother would sit there with her gypsy garb, red bandana around her head, and big gold hoop earrings eating raw meat dipped in paprika–that was “nadjmama.” She never did learn to speak English. Nice to reminisce, but I’m drifting off-topic . . .
What a diverse, complex and wonderful country this is!

As long as you KNOW it’s high fat or some other stuff that’s bad for you, go for it.

I have a problem with junk that nobody tells you about, or markets it as something “good” but it’s really bad..

Atkins diet for example…sure, you lose weight, but your arteries clog up from all that other stuff.

Cigs and drugs are not the same thing…smoke hurts others nearby, for example and drugs have all sorts of societal costs.

The “don’t let the govt tell me what to do” has limits. Some of us want to know what’s in our bodies and want the producers to HAVE to tell us what they put in their product.

I was just going to ask that question, Craig–what does that tax increase translate to for the consumer. So, thanks for supplying the answer.

I suspect we’re going to see a lot more of these taxes slide in. I think I read 61 cents on cigs [to fund the children's insurance program]. And at the beginning of the year, my state started an Ammunition Responsibility Tax. It’s a nominal fee [right now] 10 cents on every individual purchase. But taxes tend to go up, not down.

We’re going to have pay for all this spending at some point. I understand the Calif. legislature couldn’t come through with a tax plan and consequently, will be laying off between 10,000-20,000 state employees.

The money has to come from someplace. Nobody likes taxes but you can’t shut down everything.

Docelder,

I raise vegies and fruit in the SF Bay Area. I am thinking about water barrels to catch rain, but my house is on a hill and the rain barrels would be at lower elevation than the crops. What do you mean by ‘shallow well points?’

You all missed the ten percent tax on poured drinks in Pittsburgh PA. The money was supposed to fund the port authority. The tax brought in so much revenue the commissioners wanted to use the tax money for other things. The judge said no..God bless her

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24166.html
Allegheny County Judge Judith Olson issued an injunction against the county on Friday which limits the use of the county’s alcoholic drink tax revenue exclusively to Port Authority projects. This means that county officials will not be allowed to use any of the revenue to fund road or bridge projects.

Wait a minute! That tax rate ($49.61) divided by the 31 US gallons in a barrel of beer yields a tax of $1.60 per gallon, or $1.60 on 128 fluid ounces.

Twelve fluid ounces (a Long-Neck) divided by 128 times $1.60 makes an increase on the tax of $.15 (fifteen cents) on the cost of a single Long Neck.

Two beers a day ($.30) times five working days per week is a buck and a half a week for one’s Brewski Habit.

Hardly worth buying a new trash can and the yeast…

Can you have a catch system under the spouts to your rain gutters?

atkins diet fruit…

After reading your article I am left with the feeling that there is more to this topic than I originally thought….