Rocky Mountain High

This bill is a not a Kick Start for the economy, it’s a Kick Back.

Yes, we are screwed.

Senator Lindsay Graham has it straight.

Also, thought this was pretty amusing:

“The kicker is that this bill will do very little to actually stimulate the economy.”

Can you please gonna tell me who is going to win the World Series this year too? It must be great knowing the future like that. Seriously, how do you do it?

You know, the construction of a national high speed rail system is right out of the socialist party platform. There are a lot of parallels between the “stimulus” bill and the socialist party platform. Interesting reading in here:

http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/

It would have been interesting to see what the stock market did if Obama had suggested a veto and re-writing a more common sense bill. That would have told the tale. This entire administration reeks of paybacks, payoffs and everything in between.

My opinion is alot of corporations and even some employees like those belonging to auto unions, have been fat and sassy with overcompensation for a long time now. People who have been paid modest, normal wages are the ones who will suffer the least. Not to say there won’t be some pain, but it will be much easier for us to live within our already modest lifestyles, than it will be for those who were overpaid and now are going to take a big drop.

Love the Internet but it is oh so sad when dumb people find their way onto the damn machines

I know…how did you get manage to get in?

Well, when they start pulling the “you’re a socialist” card you know they’ve simply got no other argument.

So I’m a socialist because I want high-speed rail, but Lindsay Graham isn’t for suggesting nationalised banks?

What alternate universe are you people living in?

ah well, Jonathan, tell us all about your superb knowledge of the CRAP oops the stimulus bill. How are they going to stimulate the economy? Why 13 bucks/week tax cut matters to most of us?

Well then, let’s put together a list of all the economy boosting things we can do with our $13 a week.

So far we’ve had to responses.

1. You’re a socialist.
2. You’re dumb

Hadn’t been here in awhile. When did you guys give up the fight?

Media Take WH jobs
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090218/pl_politico/18971

The market doesn’t believe the Messiah..? Obama is a joke. It’s doesn’t matter how much money Congress is going dump on the economy, it’s not going to work.

The basic principle of an functioning economy is supply and demand. It’s that simple. There’s not a single free market economy that functions by the moronic idea that the governments gives failing companies money and tax credit to keep their employees on the payroll. That’s is stupid, that idiotic, that is lunacy, that is flat out Obomination. It’s makes me sick. Companies must make revenue to succeed. And there’ no amount of money that would keep a company in business without revenue.

Why is no one seem upset about Obama’s excessive carbon footprint? His mini-vacation after only a few days in office, all of those unnecessary trips to hold bill signing and proposal pep rallies and his penchant for turning the heat up in the oval office sure as hell doesn’t help the environment.

I know, I know, he’s from Hawaii and can’t stand the cold, but didn’t he just scold DC-ers about their wimpy response to winter school closings compared to those hearty Chicagoans? So which is it? I say SUCK IT UP BARACK and just do your job and don that oval office sweater so that you can do your part to protect our environment. AND we certainly don’t need any more of your senseless grandstanding.

After all, didn’t your Press Secretary recently say that you aren’t a “Pomp and Circumstance” kinda guy? Right………….

This was Obama’s big test and he failed. He was completely partisan and a fearmonger. Nothing about him was Presidential in this situation. Had he rolled up his sleeves, actually taken the time to read, understand, and get pragmatic about this piece of CRAP Bill, he would have even earned high marks from me.

But, instead, this was a boondoggle from the get go. Pelosi, whose lack of leadership abilities has never been more clear, acted like the partisan bitch hate-filled nut that she is. And what a joke that the CRAP Bill was shoved down our throats so she could jet off to Italy to meet the Pope. (A meeting that apparently went very badly, by the way.)

Obama took his snake oil routine on the road, and we ended up with something that will net next to zero jobs, compared to cost, and it’s nothing but generational theft and socialism which will ultimately be rejected by America and its citizens once they figure out they have been totally had.

This will be Obama’s undoing, thank God. But it also might be the end of America if we don’t stop it.

oops bitch

Silly, if tax cuts actually worked to stimulate the economy, we wouldn’t be in this mess, now would we?

It’s the spending in this bill that will stimulate the economy. Creating jobs and putting people back to work – jobs that aren’t just short term projects but create a long term green economy that will be able to employ millions for the next decade. Every single bit of spending that you call pork (which, for anyone who understands the meaning of the term, knows it isn’t), enters into our economy as government spending, one of the main components of a sound economy. Frankly, the bill is not enough – it represents less than 1% of GDP, while it’s likely we need to spend 2-3% to really jump start the economy, but it’s the best plan that could have gotten passed. A second stimulus is likely in upcoming months.

Sorry, should be — “Why does no one seem” etc.

And, remember, next year it will be a whopper $8 a week. And for every job this CRAP Bill might maybe create it will cost us around $200,000. That money should have gone into the pockets of Americans. Period.

kissing Obama’s socialist ass doesn’t cost anything.

A second stimulus is likely in upcoming months.

Actually it will be the third, but I agree… they will come until we can no longer finance them. I have complete faith in that.

Please explain why this bill is crap and will not create any jobs.

Or do you just regurgitate the mindless garbage spewed by the right wing? Do you actually process and understand the economics behind this? Do you understand why the majority of economists think this plan will create jobs and help to stimulate our economy?

Above: Exhibit #1 why it was important not to cut the education funding from the stimulus package (YOU).

ROFLMAO Troll. Mommy’s calling you to lunch.

Because that worked so well over the past eight years, right?

Sorry didn’t realize I was debating politics with a five year old.

Nope, those are just the voices in your head.

No response? Didn’t think so. You don’t actually understand things, you’re just a parrot for the right wing. Sad.

I agree. Thanks.

No, “Jonathan,” it’s the poor posters at NQ who have to tolerate immature little paid trolls like you. We humor you as much as we can, but it does get tedious and annoying.

Again, please explain the economics behind why this is a crap bill.

past eight years

Those are code words to me. No problems we currently have stem from any single one thing that has happened in such a short time frame. Those words are just code words for… “well at least he’s not Bush”. I get that much… he’s not Bush. And?

Why is no one seem upset about Obama’s excessive carbon footprint? His mini-vacation after only a few days in office, all of those unnecessary trips to hold bill signing and proposal pep rallies

He’s like a kid with a new toy and that’s all he is a kid who has unfortunately been put in charge of the greatest Nation in the world. To quote someone else in this blog – “We are Screwed.”

I know, I know, he’s from Hawaii and can’t stand the cold,

Except he has lived in Chicago these last 10+ years so he has become acclimated to the cold.

Jonathan is probably one of The Great One’s new guys on the “Truth Commission.”

I seriously just want to understand what it is about this bill that makes you think it is crap. Why, economically speaking, will this bill not work? Instead I just get accusations that I’m a socialist. Sorry, I don’t see how I’m being immature for wanting answers but you’re not for calling me names.

And I’m glad you still think we’re paid trolls, that gives me a good laugh. Whose paying us now that the campaign is over, the government? Well, I guess that is one way to create jobs.

…and he’s already well on his way to fixing the problems that Bush created. Are you trying to tell me that our economic problems, from the housing bubble to de-regulation to job loss, all originated pre-2000? Please, do tell how that happened. I’m curious. Was it the surplus’ fault?

paying people welfare to sit on their lazy ass does not stimulate the economy.

An income tax holiday and cutting the corporate tax rate in half would have went a long way to invigorate the economy RIGHT NOW. Much of the pork bill passed, are for projects that will not have an immediate effect.

congress gave themselves a raise too. Don’t see much in cutting expenses.

Some people don’t know anything about economics or common sense, they just sit around reciting mantras from their special “club”.

Suitin’ up for his new, spiffy brown outfit as we speak….

I caught this segment on O’reilly last night… and for the first time heard (from the MSM) a logical, and historically proven argument AGAINST the stimulus bill. Larry Elder spells it out at about 3:30 into the video.. definately worth a look.

http://www.foxnews.com/video-search/m/21888347/stimulus_showdown.htm

More than ever I wish Hillary was at the helm….

“Why does no one seem”

I preferred ‘why is’ it that ‘no one seems…’

Because of public school education?

That seems what has taught people to be the way they are, isn’t it?

If government teaches people, then government will teach that government is always right and dandy.

Fidel Castro perfected that system in a short period of time and he had a lot of success with it.

Jonathan never read the CRAP Bill and knows nothing about what it will and won’t do. He’s also lying about every economist in the world embracing it. But you’d have to actually read to know the truth. I say let’s ignore the troll and move on. We won’t get any intelligent conversation about the CRAP Bill, just insults about what morons we are for not embracing socialism and the end of America and the dollar. Oh, yeah, it’s Bush’s fault, I forgot.

Hillary’s bill would have looked identical to this.

Who did you think you were supporting?

Well the bi-partisan, no-skin-in-the-game CBO seems to think it is not going to do what the Dems keep saying it is going to do….. They do not agree with the job creation numbers AT ALL.

Look at other countires that have tried to spend their way out of bad economic times. It did not work out so well for them. The government need to STOP spending. Go through the budget and cut out all the crap that has been loaded in there year after year. When your budget is tight at home or you are in debt do you go spend more – not unless you are stupid and irresponcible. You trim the fat and cut back on spending, get a second job and get serious.

I agree.

Do you even think before you write? I’ve read the bill, yes, the entire thing. And I never said every economist in the world embraces it, I said the majority. Which is the truth. What you did is called a hyperbole, and while it’s a clever form of distraction, it doesn’t relate to the argument we are having whatsoever.

Again, why is this a crap bill? And how are we embracing socialism but allowing the government to spend money, one of the four means it has of controlling monetary policy and our economy?

I just want simple answers. I don’t know why it’s so hard to explain your view without insulting me.

I can’t argue the national debt didn’t nearly double in the past eight years. In retrospect, should we have borrowed money to fund the war? Or to pay for senior citizens drugs? Or for anything else we spent on? No. That was more a political decision to hide the true cost of these from us. Deficit spending caused our problems. Yes. So, will spending a few more trillion on social programs pull us out? I am not feeling it. But, I am nobody’s economist.

We are screwed.

Only WalMart can save us now. I am not kidding.

“A majority of economists think this plan will create jobs and help stimulate our economy?”

Are you high? Talk about spewing mindless garbage by the left wing… If you bothered to actually research your premise you would find that it is leftwing propaganda prosyletized by MSNBC, CNN and the current administration.

In other words, it is bullshit.

They don’t agree 100%, but since I’m a fan of facts, why don’t we see what the CBO ACTUALLY said.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100535553

“February 10, 2009 · The economic stimulus legislation pending in Congress would add between 1.2 and 3.6 percent to economic growth by the end of next year, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That’s compared to the CBO’s “baseline” forecasts, which predict growth without the legislation.

The legislation would also create between 1.3 million and 3.9 million jobs by the fourth quarter of 2010, compared to the baseline forecast.”

What you may be referring to is that the CBO thinks that, in the long term, the effects will slow down unless we make additional changes to our economy, which is true. It’s the reason why Obama is also proposing changes in the financial system as well as the home-buying market. But to say the CBO doesn’t think this bill will create jobs is, well, a flat out lie.

Let’s face it, Bush was Dem-lite, he did spend, but the economy didn’t start tanking until the housing bubble burst which the fault for that can be laid at the feet of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Bush and McCain tried to get some regulation of those two, but for some strange reason, your Barney Frank and Chris Dodd said “NO” they didn’t need regulating. The banks were then forced to lend to people who, in the real world, should not have been granted mortgage loans. Now we are expected as taxpayers to bail these idiots out.

The Democrats are burying themselves and no shovel will be big enough to dig them out. The Republicans will take back Congress in 2010 and the WH in 2012.

I never liked Bush and I thought the Republicans did a crappy job for the last 8 years but the Dems had Congress the last 2 and did SQUAT. I am up for some new leadership w Steele, Palin and some other common sense leaders who put the American people and this country first not themselves regardless of the party they represent.

Listening to your arrogance reminds me why I deserted the Democratic Party this year.

Hillary’s bill would have been HILLARY’S. B-Crack’s bill is PELOSI’S. Big frigging difference troll. You’re not going to get people to listen to your nonsense here. We know the truth. Huffpoop and Daily Kook are open for business. Go drool over the Fraud there.

“This is one of the most horribly mis-informed posts I have ever seen posted on a blog of any type….Love the Internet but it is oh so sad when dumb people find their way onto the damn machines…” ~ You

“I don’t know why it’s so hard to explain your view without insulting me.” ~ You

Are you friggin serious? People are insulting you because you were a jerk to the author of this post.

YOU need to learn how to express your views without attacking others!!!!

Oh, we have discussed that here – abt Obama’s already haven taken two vacations in less than a month on the job. Just like Bush, only more so!

And he has not lived in Hawaii for MANY years. In fact, he has lived there less time than anywhere else, so that was a ridiculous excuse from the get-go.

And all of the other gov’t offices have to turn their thermostats WAY down to save money…

I’m sorry but when the entire point of the post is to spew hatred rather than facts and lies rather than actual investigation or analysis, I find it hard to separate the author from the garbage they spew. My intention was not to attack the author but simply this post. But if I did in fact attack the person rather than the problem, that was a mistake, and for that I sincerely apologize.

I am not happy about the stimulus bill, but living in LA I am happy about the light rail going to Vegas. If we are going to spend money, I want to see it spent on things like trains, public transit, and alternative energy.

If you really deserted the Democratic Party because of my arrogance then I am going to take myself out for a drink because I sure am one important person.

We are getting the B grade bots again people. Someone go file a complaint over at KOS.

No, you are incorrect on this. Hillary would NEVER have outsourced putting ths bill together to Pelosi. She would have done what she always does, put her head down, nose to the grindstone and worked it out — she would have reached across the aisle, as she has done in the Senate. And this would not have been slapped together in this way. Why the hell do you think Pelosi and Reid were so busy stabbing Hillary in the back during the primary. They knew she would be in actual control — not them.

I don’t care what party line she may look like she is towing as SoS out of respect for the POTUS, there is nothing about Hillary that is “identical” to Obama.

Please explain why this bill is crap and will not create any jobs.

Why do you have to ask the same question over and over?

The bill is crap because it spends tons of money on old technologies, old ideas and old methods. It prescribes what is old and inefficient and foreign to Americans and in the end it will make everyone poor most definite those who end up being hired with monies from the bill. It is a failure for failures destine to fail and pushing America ever more in the direction of failure. Capisce? No. You’ll never get it because your mother made you skip kindergarten.

So how would Hillary’s have differed? Is she not a Democrat? Does she not believe that the way out of this problem is government spending to create jobs? Would she not have urged the creation of a green economy? Would she not have listened to her former fellow Democratic Senators and instead to Rush Limbaugh?

Please, where would they have differed? I just don’t see it.

So why Denver? To me it’s just more of Bush’s “mission accomplished” boondoggle mentality. Or it’s a “fist bump” for everybody to see how great you are. “I won”.

You can speculate as much as you’d like about how she would have done this (although I would bet my money that the President of the United States would not have written this bill herself, she would have handed it off to the Democratic leadership in congress), but regardless of this, how would this bill be different? Given that she believes the same things (for the most part) about the economy as Obama and ALL Democrats, how would she have created a different bill?

In my opinion, you are all grossly misrepresenting Hillary and what she stood for.

jonathon,

wouldn’t talk about education when you could use a little yourself,

two, not to

as in “two responses” not “to responses”

Please don’t feed the trolls.

Rhetorical questions, ad hominems, and statements about how “the last eight years” justifies any actions the government might now take are just a few clues that you are dealing with a troll.

False statements such as “I have a PhD in porkonomics and I read all the drafts of the bill and have the final version memorized” are confirmation.

Trolls dont want you to answer question about why third party government spending is inherently less efficient than you spending your own money. They just want to clog up the works.

Linda-you are spot on. One point everyone misses, though, is the spendulous bill provides for predominately construction jobs, which benefit men 18-50. Where are the jobs for women and people over 50???
Other jobs possibly saved/created will be for scientists, researchers, and engineers. Green grid projects will provide more construction work.
The point is, how many of the unemployed will be able to tranlate their education/experience into these great jobs immediately? Is there funding for job training?
Just asking.

I agree also. The shop til you drop mentality was bounded to fail. Going into a department store in the last few years was like walking into a devil den with anything and everything you could ever want lay waiting to be yours if you would sign up for this little credit card… Also all the soccer lessons, ballet lessons,etc. where everyone gets a trophy even if they have no talent just makes people believe they can always get something for nothing. I have thought this way for some time and frankly I’m glad we as a world and a country are getting back to normal (saving and living within our means). I am sorry for all the people who are getting laid off and even though I don’t like Obama I hope this new bill will help people in their time of suffering. Hope it is not a crutch to those who can’t seem to live within their means. And honestly if I was China or Japan I wouldn’t loan the US the money. The US needs to bite the bullet and learn to enjoy the cheap and free things in life.

I dumped your comment in moderation. It was totally inappropriate to call her dumb.

The are hundreds of economists that say this will not work, and that it was a bad idea. And there are many people who point to history to say that this will not work. She is not spewing garbage, she is stating opinions you disagree with.

What in this story do you find so disagreeable? that we are in debt? that it won’t work? how the heck do you know it WILL work? there are plenty of experts who say that it won’t.

Stop accusing people of spewing right wing talking points, and discuss the issues.

I just want simple answers.

You want simple answers but you will not acknowledge when a simple answer hits the mark.

You are old and your brain is old.

You do not understand new and from where it comes from and what it does and what it does.

You are poor and want everyone else to be poor like you are.

These are not insults, they are reflections of your behavior.

and you should apologize to the author, not me. but, thanks.

I’m aware that the bill spends money on updating outdated schools, on high speed rail and updated transit and on new green energy jobs. So what old techonoligies and ideas are you speaking of? And in terms of methods, please don’t tell me that you are one of those “The New Deal was a failure” people or I might start laughing so hard that tears come streaming down my face.

I think Susan should, yet again, ban a troll for being abusive, uninformed and vile. These are exactly the thugs that Obama employed to destroy Hillary in the primary, and the thugs that continue to be emblamatic of the filthy dirty DNC. It makes me puke.

I’m just 21, but thanks for calling me old, I guess. Beats when you used to call me a 15 year old in my mothers basement.

I’m not even sure what you mean by the rest of what you said. I don’t understand new? You’re right, I have no idea where “new” comes from. New what? New ideas? New shoes? New Jersey?

jonathon, nevermind, the comment disappeared

No, you are “grossly misrepresenting” the biggest con job and fraud on America in our history. Everyone knows that Obama had nothing to do with the crafting of this bill. Stop lying. It’s ridiculous. He’s still probably never read it. And, troll, by the way, this country started with a revolution that was due to “taxation without representation.” Get this loud and clear troll…none of the reps read this. None of them. And I pay their salaries to protect me. I am being taxed without representation and I will fight it like any decent American. Too bad you are a sheep and not a patriot. Sad for you, but your boss is going to suffer for this one. And don’t ever compare Hillary to this Fraud. Ever.

Agreed. And Jonathan has completely dominated this thread, with over 20 comments already. Please, folks, he is not interested in real dialogue, which he has made clear from the ad hominem attacks and unwillingness to acknowledge the vast amt of paybacks in this bill, as well as the huge number of economists who do not think it will do what it is SUPPOSED to do – create jobs. That was the point all along – not to give away OUR money to pet projects.

So, please, please stop engaging with this guy. I guarantee you, no matter WHAT you say, he will nitpick ad nauseum. He has made that clear already.

Thanks!

Tell it Alex!

i just wish people could discuss the issues without attacking each other. it would be so much more interesting, and informative.

Even now, the “stimulus” provides $7500 to home buyers, but only buyers with low income. Have we learned nothing from this? Apparently not. But I agree, Bush II was nobody’s conservative.

I think the entire post is extremely rude for its lack of any sort of respect of facts and its extremely off-putting town. Some of the things I find specifically off-putting?

The use of the term “porkulus” to define a bill that is 58% spending at 42% tax cuts, and which contains no NADA ZILCH earmarked money that is required to be spent on specific projects. They simply don’t exist in this bill. You can bring up all the fake examples you want – Caifornian rodents, LA-Vegas high speed trains, but the facts remain that these are suggestions for possible uses of money to be spent in AREAS – such as infrastructure, cleaning the environment, etc. – NOT earmarks for these specific causes. If any of you actually read this bill, you’d see that in plain English.

As I stated above, also have a problem with this line “he kicker is that this bill will do very little to actually stimulate the economy.” This is an opinion, and it’s misleading to try to represent it as fact. Specifically when it’s not backed up by any evidence or reasoning.

All in all, I enjoy reading articles of ANY viewpoint that are well put together and show signs that the author put time and effort into them. This is just sloppy, and so I attacked.

*tone

although, and off-putting town certainly is not a place I’d like to spend any time.

I know. I thought we filed a request for the more quality, intelligent Bots. Jeez. Wonder if they’ll start coming out in teams again.

At some point this bill will have to be paid for. I’m old enough that I will be long dead when the payments are made. I bequeath those taxes to Jonathan since he thinks that the bill is so positivwe.

spends money on updating outdated

You said it. Every penny in the bill is about updating outdated, except with outdated updates. Caspisce? No.

Go figure why is it that you can’t capisce it anymore?

high speed rail is outdated Japanese technology.

Did you see anyone in the Star Wars episodes taking high speed rail transportation? No you didn’t. It doesn’t work. Why? Because it has to go straight forward. People like to make turns. You must be have very limited imagination. I am sorry.

AGI…agreed. It’s one thing, though, when it’s one of us and we disagree. It’s another thing when it’s clearly a troll sent to agitate people and cause problems. I hate that.

“how would she have created a different bill?”

Since your Messiah “won” we’ll never know whether the bill would been the exact same as Juan Peron’s but what we can surmise is this. 2 billion probably would not have gone to ACORN and 200 billion to freddie and fannie. She would have acted truly bipartisanly as she always has in the Senate. Another thing, it’s not the money so much as what the thief is going to do with it. As I always say I’m all for helping and giving a relative $1000 dollars if he actually uses it to pay his bills and get out of a jam but if he takes the money and goes on vacation or gives it to his buddies to have a good time then I’ve just wasted alot of money and he’ll be back for another handout in 2 months(This has probably happened to you since you live off your parents). I hope you get your piece of the pie but chances are that trillion is already on its way to Chcago, Ayers and Wright.

I do acknowledge that there are hundreds of economists who don’t support this bill. I said a majority do. A majority is 50+1, which means 50-1 might be against this bill.

And you’re right I don’t acknowledge the paybacks because they don’t exist. If you read the bill before posting an argument against it you might know that.

I don’t appreciate the fact that the facts are taken so lightly here. Somone said the CBO doesn’t agree that the bill will work, so I posted their numbers – 1.3-3.9 million jobs created. Of course, that was ignored.

I’m perfectly open to real dialogue. This bill isn’t perfect. But calling it “porkulus” when it clearly ISN’T doesn’t open dialogue it just shuts doors through anger and ignorance.

“21?” Try being a business owner, or having a real career and profession, a family to feed. You have no real life yet so you don’t understand any of this. I was your age once. I might have even lived in the fantasy land you live in. I didn’t even vote then and didn’t care. You are spewing stuff about someone you incorrectly idolize and know nothing about. It shows in your anger, verbal abuse and lack of reason. Whether you are a troll or not, you sure did get drunk on Kool Aid and I feel sorry for you because a big slap in your face is coming when your God falls to earth. Oops, he already has, but you don’t accept the truth.

HOB, well that is one good thing. Although we always have cheap flights from Burbank that only take 50 minutes. Either way, anything going to Vegas has my big time seal of approval lol.

We already can no longer finance them. Watch Japan and China say, take a hike losers!

Tax cuts are a fantasy. They don’t really ever lose that money. The budget can’t afford it. What they do instead is cut taxes, for example, in your paycheck, but increase the taxes in another area. you’ll see. Overall you will be paying more in taxes. Wait and see if I’m correct.

In my state of MN, Pawlenty was elected on a no new taxes platform because people are naive. I said the same thing then as I wrote above. What happened? Oh, Pawlenty kept his promise all right, but then he created “fees” for what he needed and we did not have to raiseour state tax, but our property taxes went through the roof. Has anyone seen a decline in their property taxes, even though their home value is dropping? Not me. It is supposed to be based on the value of my home, but my taxes are going up and/or staying the same, but my house is worth less.

People have got to stop being stupid and fooled by politicians. It is all a shell game. We are going to pay, pay, pay for Obama big time. Yes, I may have a lousy $13 extra per week, but he has to pay that $40 billion in interest somehow, doesn’t he? And he’ll get it from giving back some tax money and less coming in from the unemployed???? Oh, sure! Ok. Sorry, people. Do the math! 2=2 always equals 4, even if Obama wants to tell you it equals 5.

It is every man for himself. Use your own brain and common sense and do not believe the politicians. It’s all a shell game.

So you acknowledge that being 21 does not mean you have a brain that thinks like a toddler and is mesmerized by discovery. Your brain has aged by knowing to much.

New comes from complaining and unhappiness and it cures it.

This is an opinion piece. The piece is rude to who? Obama. Why take personal offense?

You are deluding yourself if you think those projects are not earmarks.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/01/dems_redefining_earmarks_to_fu_1.asp

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/25/lobbyists-get-around-obam_n_160713.html

http://www.rightsidenews.com/200902073592/editorial/stealing-the-stimulus-all-earmarks.html

There are, as I said, hundreds of people (experts), if not more, that do not believe this bill will do anything. Just as there are that say it will.

YOUR OPINION is that it will work. Where is your proof?

“21″ ? Bwaahhaaaa!

All I can say is don’t let “Obama=Hope and Change” resonate in your pointy young head for too long. Eventually, you’ll have to wake up, Jonathan. So maybe you’re 21 and still in mom’s basement. Consider it a euphemism for uninitiated rube.

Reality is gonna bite, as it always does. The only thing now to discuss is if Obama is doing a Triple Lindy or a Swan dive off the American Idol Pedestal.

I remember 21. I still believed that presidents were all wise and wonderful back then, too.

Yup, scientists agree that the human brain does not fully reach maturity until around age 25.

Jonathan, you still have time to be a deer in the headlights for the Obamanation Express to flatten on the highway of life!

Good Luck, Bambi!

RRRA- I FULLY agree…
But I must say, You guys who post here, and us that comment here must be doing something right again… Because that is the only time these trolls crawl out of their rocks to blindly comment on things they know only from a brief blurb on cnn.com or the ticker running on the bottom of the TV on MSNBCrap…

This is a Spending BILL… (if im not mistaken the largest and least debated in US history)
and it does little to nothing to IMMEDIATELY (within 2 yrs)to jump start our economy. A “STIMULUS” bill would have included some sort of rebate for taxpayers that would have jolted our retail sector with an infusion of cash… instead of prolonging the deaths of the corp behemoths that have dragged us all into this mess. Im not an economist, but I understand basic math and have a bit of common sense… and try to inform myself a little bit more that what is given to me by the MSM

I concur! I’m glad Jonathan and his children (God help us) are happy to assume this debt:-)

Stop the lovefest!

Where did you see that 50+1 economists believe this will work?

CBO: Obama stimulus harmful over long haul

President Obama’s economic recovery package will actually hurt the economy more in the long run than if he were to do nothing, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday.

CBO, the official scorekeepers for legislation, said the House and Senate bills will help in the short term but result in so much government debt that within a few years they would crowd out private investment, actually leading to a lower Gross Domestic Product over the next 10 years than if the government had done nothing.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cbo-obama-stimulus-harmful-over-long-haul/

Oops, might I add, three cheers for Jonathan!
Let me know where and when I can send you my bills since you are so WILLING to pay.

and which contains no NADA ZILCH earmarked money that is required to be spent on specific projects. They simply don’t exist in this bill.

I think yo need to read the bill again and understand that money that is specifically labeled for special projects is an earmark whether someone decides to call it or not.

Here; this might help you (note this note below was co-published with none other than the Obama friendly MSNBC…)

http://www.propublica.org/feature/welcome-in-the-stimulus-bill-an-earmark-by-any-other-name

But not understanding WHY people are calling it porkulus and a move in the wrong direction very much closes doors to true understanding.

Two side of the coin, little grasshopper.

How many lost jobs does a 7.5% unemployment rate equal? Does the creation of 3 million jobs, which, by the way, are NOT created yet and have NO guarantee of EVER being created, decrease the jobless rate significantly? And that’s IF the jobless rate stays at or about today’s rate. Also, consider the type of work that will be offered. Are you willing to dig ditches for the government, Jonathan?

The answers are not so simple as everything is always in flux and flow. Next week, when, hypothetically, the world is plunged into a war or natural disaster, the big spending may not have been so wise.

On simple terms, it’s kind of like buying the 50″ screen TV with borrowed funds and then having all the pipes in your house freeze and break the next week. The funds you had were channeled to the wrong thing and now you have no money to really fix the necessary.

Well then, don’t let the door hit ya on the way out.

We know Hillary would have been totally different from O because she was stopped by her own party so he could be installed.

Hillary makes things work. She fixes things. If the system works, how will they get ever more bailouts? It’s about sucking all the wealth out, not having anything work. Hillary could not be allowed to gain the Oval Office or the gravy train would have derailed.

So what is she doing in the O administration? What she always does….making the best of a bad situation.

Also, Jonathan; let’s take say, Wikipedia and look for “earmark” The first paragraphs read:

In US politics an earmark is a congressional provision that directs approved funds to be spent on specific projects or that directs specific exemptions from taxes or mandated fees.

Earmarks can be found both in legislation (also called “Hard earmarks” or “Hardmarks”) and in the text of Congressional committee reports (also called “Soft earmarks” or “Softmarks”). Hard earmarks are binding and have the effect of law, while soft earmarks do not have the effect of law but by custom are acted on as if they were binding.[1] Typically, a legislator seeks to insert earmarks that direct a specified amount of money to a particular organization or project in his/her home state or district.

Congressional earmarks are often defined loosely as anonymously authored guarantees of federal funds to particular recipients in appropriations-related documents.

Now, please take a look again at the bill.

Kiss, kiss!

58,000 dollars an hour to operate AF-1. Is it fiscally responsible to fly to Denver for what? How about Camp David?

Get out your wallet Rent-an-aide because you haven’t even begun to see the ramifications of this spending. Oh, you don’t have any money to start with. Here’s a dime don’t spend it all in one place.

The only hard on here, I guess, is yours for That One. Now do your thing and well—-

Stop the incestuous lovefest!

I’ve asked many Obots to please show back up when Obama fails and to be ready to apologize profusely.

Now I can, according to Jonathan, happily send them my share of the porkulus bill because they are so willing to pay for it!!

It is truly a great day!!

I’d say you’ve got a hard on for your own opinion of your intellect, cascade.

Lonely much?

Speaking of hard ons…what about yours for Obama? Pot, kettle…

No point arguing with you Amy on the stimlus bill. You have your opinion. Many would dispute your view. There is a lot in your post of generic statements to take issue with.

It sounds like your argument boils down to the fact that you do not think the government should add no more to the deficit. You have a classic conservative economic view point. I agree it is not great to be adding to the deficit, but you should add to your analysis whether the country can afford the extra debt? I would argue that it can, especially given the situation we are in. Just about all industrialized countries are adding to their debt with stimulus packages right now.

The stock market closed flat today, so not sure about your point on the stock market. Actually, it is hard to read much into the stock market either way.

It is hard for anyone to know how much the stimulus will work, how the bank bail-out will work or how the housing proposal will work. We are in uncharted waters and many of these plans will change over time to adapt to the situation. At least the government is trying to do something. My sense is whatever the government tries to do Amy and others on NQ would disagree with it. It is not sure what you people are complaining about and what you are looking for? Are you looking for the government to do nothing? Are you looking for only a big tax cut? Are you looking for a bigger stimulus package? Easy to critique, but what exactly are you suggesting the government do? They seem to be doing a lot of things to cover a lot of the areas under distress.

The financial markets reflects both the uncertainty and the lack of great detail on a lot of these plans. That does not mean these plans are wrong, it just means there is a lot of uncertainty out there.

When housing starts hit an all time low today, when unemployeeent continues to accelerate, and with corporate earnings continue to fall off a cliff it will take some time and an awful lot to move the financial markets meaningful higher.

Buzz:

Damn! How come Obots always leave when they finally agree to pay for something?

Stop the lovefest!

Each job will not cost $200,000. Again funny math on NQ. How exactly do you get to the $200,000. Are you factoring in what the government actually gets for what it is spending its money on? ie. the bridges, schools, internet, cash from tax cuts, etc. Are you factoring on that if the stimulus actually works the monetary benefits of getting the economy going? High school level thinking!!!

Please cite an example of legislation coming out of Congress to address the burgeoning abuses of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which President Bush vetoed.

Please cite an example of legislation proposed by either Democrats or Republicans in either the House or Senate that was designed to reign in Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac; and cite which legislation was outvoted by the Republicans.

Please identify which major political party held the majority of votes in either the House or the Senate in the years 2006, 2007, and 2008.

Thank you.

P.S. As a well-informed voter, I already know the answers to all of these questions.

It doesn’t take a financier to figure out that you can’t give away all the money in the federal treasury and then borrow 2 billion a day from China and the economy won’t eventually tank. The amazing, absolutely amazing thing is that it didn’t go until the 2008 election season. Miraculous, no?

I’d say that regulating the financial sector and implementing safeguards for the citizens is definitely one bona fide role of government. After all, the average person does not understand finance or we’d all be millionaires.

Well the first thing Obama said when he got in office was that he LOVES the perks. We knew that.

it always comes back to “paid trolls”. what a joke? you would have more credibility if you drop this kind of BS. “Obambots” another joke?

Not sure what you are? so angry that your candidate lost that you will forever hate whatever the government does? i am sure you want Obama to fail…

Listen at the 2:38 mark. And the whole thing, actually.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22886841#29254662

Jonathan: the mantra that Hillary is no different from Obama is a creation of Axelrod and only people who don’t remember the Clintons buy that load of crap.

Even the boob Cafferty, who was and is totally in the tank for Pr. Obama, is carping about what crap this bill is — and telling Obama to get rid of Pelosi and Reid, who represent the worst of Washington.

How will he get rid of them when he got there on their backs? How will he get rid of them when he outsourced the creation of this bill to Pelosi in the first place.

Must be slow over at CNN for Cafferty to be complaining about this.

And where will we get that money? Who will lend it to us? Excellent question!

Yes Rev. Amy, excellent question! We cannot hope to repay it in our lifetimes; it will be repaid by our children, our grandchildren, and our great-grandchildren. Once I asked myself, “How can I ever repay my parents for everything that they’ve done for me?” And the answer I gave myself was “You can’t–not possibly, not ever. It’s paid back through the generations,” meaning that by handing on the benefits I had received from my parents to my kids and my grandchildren, I would be repaying what I would never be able to repay my parents. And that’s the way it should be.

Something’s gone topsy-turvy, hasn’t it?

Republicans are the only ones that have lost in the stimulus bill debate. their polling numbers are down.

Obama is doing very well. his poll numbers are high and the majority of the country supports the stimulus bill.

Obama reached out to republicans and they were just obstructionists. the american people saw through their BS.

McCain can complain all he wants about partisanship, but why was he not in Spector’s office with the other three republicans negotiating the bill?

Pelosi has also been doing a great job. she got the bill passed, got a ton done to push the democratic agenda in the bill on healthcare, education, healthcare, etc., and kept the party unified.

I meant you and all the others that fell for Obama. You are so arrogant that you don’t care if people leave your party. Kinda like not having a real vote to nominate the Democratic Nominee. Obama may have gotten elected this time without me, but state and local Dems will be after me when they come up for election, and they better not be too close to Obama or they will not get my vote. The only way I will every again vote for a Democrat is if they are openly opposed to Obama.

As soon as it’s figured out what you’re actually referring to, you will be pounced upon by nattering nabobs of negative energy.

What is wrong with having the house and pelosi write the initial draft of the bill? They did a great job. put together a bill that had a lot of spending that pushed the democratic agenda, which what you do when you win an election, and they got it done quickly.

took out some of the none stimulus stuff, but big deal as represented a very small part of the overall bill. although we can always argue about what is stimulus and what is not stimlus.

bill then went to senate for revision as it always does and then to obama for revision. nothing wrong in the way the bill was written. a lot of the republican ideas were even adopted.

in the end it was a good bill, not perfect, but a good bill. however, it may be too small…

Yep. We were saying exactly that for 20 of the last 28 years. Apparently one party cannot do out of necessity what the other did as standard operating procedure.

The women will be serving them hash down at Mel’s Diner. You’ve come a long way, baby!

A very bias report. They only quote critics of the plan. Why not some balance in that report? Why not interview one of the many who supports the plan? Typical MSM piece. Say statements like “raising eyebrows from even those that voted for it” but, don’t actually quote anyone. Or quoting unnamed critics?

Anyone can find something in the bill they don’t like. Big deal, but overall the bill is a good bill.

And nothing wrong with spending on democratic priorities. Good. they won and they have that right.

In commentator has no clue what she is talking about saying the cost of a job is $250,000 per job? where did she get that number? did she simply add up the cost of the bill and then divide by the number of jobs the bill is expected to create? that is completely wrong math. you have to factor in the benefit of what you get for the dollars as well. ie. the schools, the highways, the bridges, broadband, etc. etc. the value of the cash given back in tax breaks, and you have to factor in the value of the economy actually getting stimulated…

like saying you are spending $30,000 on a car, and then saying the cost of the three jobs that is created by buying that car is $10,000 for each job, what about the car you end up with? is there no value in that? is that not worth $30,000.

Oops, cascade disappeared!

only people who don’t remember the Clintons buy that load of crap.

Jonathan must be about 12 to believe the crap he is posting. I know what Hillary stands for and That One ain’t no Hillary

I never liked Bush and I thought the Republicans did a crappy job for the last 8 years but the Dems had Congress the last 2 and did SQUAT. I am up for some new leadership w Steele, Palin and some other common sense leaders who put the American people and this country first not themselves regardless of the party they represent.

I concur. The Democrats have punted responsibility for the last 2 years and did nothing the previous 6. My former party is nothing but a shell of its former self.

What is wrong with having the house and pelosi write the initial draft of the bill?

Nothing, but having it unavailable to review prior to voting on it because the lobbyists are still tweaking it… I would say that is unconscionable.

it may be too small

What would determine this… if it doesn’t work? Or if there is still money to be had on the table? I don’t mean that antagonistically either. Are we really talking about “stimulus” at this point, or is this about political capital?

Have you found a new way to rid the blog of trolls? If so, you could sell it.

some vacation? I am sure Obama did a lot of relaxing? this adminstration has been working harder than probably any other in modern times….

if that is all you got, then Obama is doing just fine.

you are petty and very small. NQ needs some new featured bloggers. NQ needs to take the level of discussion up a notch, if you want to be considered a real and important political blog.

58,000 dollars an hour to operate AF-1

That would have bought a lot of Kobe beef for the homeless.

some vacation? I am sure Obama did a lot of relaxing? this adminstration has been working harder than probably any other in modern times….

Jetting around the country bleating at length while having OTHERS do the work is no excuse for two vacations. He’s lazier than Bush; twice as dogmatic; and three times as arrogant.

politics are a tough business. the republicans need to stop whinning about not being able to read it. they had weeks to get involved. screw the republicans.

it may be too small because the problem is too big… the downturn may be much much greater than anyone expects.

Don’t worry Ferd!

Ba-zo-zo likes to pay taxes! He doesn’t mind the fiscal irresponsibility of That One. Ba-zo-zo says “here let me pay for that nonrequired trip since you’ve exhausted yourself playing basketball and watching the superbowl and eating $100 dollar steaks.

Stop the lovefest!

The CBO never said that. They did a partial analysis of only part of the original bill that talked about timelines. there was no official report. The republicans picked this partial analysis up and used it as part of their obstructionist propaganda. i dare you to go to the CBO website and actually find where they said that the stimulus bill will be harmful over the long haul. I did and found nothing.

The “great” and honest washington times article you quote is a piece of work. they actually do not specifically mention what report they are paraphrasing and quote absolutely no one from the CBO. there is actually not even a direct quote. a big red flag.

See this link on this non-existant CBO report and analysis.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009010424/cbo-stimulus-report-didnt-exist

(although I would bet my money that the President of the United States would not have written this bill herself, she would have handed it off to the Democratic leadership in congress),

And you will lose it all Jonathan. Bill Clinton was a policy wonk and a workaholic that thought through and crafted even the minutia of each of his bills ( and still today he can tell you what do they say entirely!)
Only one person compares to, if not surpasses, him on this: Hillary R. Clinton.

Mr Obama? Not even close. he might have some broad outlines of sound bites and subtitles of what he thinks is there. But not much more. He could never discuss and explain policy details without reading them; he couldn’t even remember numbers and basic stats at town hall meetings: these were scroll for him on big screens on background…

Obama might be a smart guy but as he himslef said it he is “a delegator” (you know, like GWB was “the decider”). And on the stimulus bill he failed miserably to put down his own “footprint” of leadership by being the real architect of thye stimulus plan and germinate the bill from the WH.

Well, see, he REALLY wasn’t looking to help us.

See, they will offer jobs to those who have to move and are able to for these jobs. Doling out the crumbs. And only immigrants or young kids will probably fill the openings, which means, for the few he’s helping create, he will be (all say it with me) “A MISERABLE FAILURE”.

Senator Jim Webb was in neighboring Virginia yesterday and called the stimulus a “calculated gamble”!
Rich?
I should have played the lottery instead of investing in this country!

Bazooka, this is one of MANY posts I have written on the Stimulus Package – I am not going to repeat myself every single time I write abt this. It would make the whole thing unwieldy and unreadable. Feel free to do a search and see previous posts I, and others, have done on this issue. You’ll find a bunch.

I wrote this yesterday when the market went down over 200 points, and this morning, it hit its lowest point in 6 yrs. It is below 8000 – that’s a bit of a problem.

I would have no problem with a real stimulus bill, but that is not what this was.

As others have already pointed out, numerous economists and the CBO don’t think this will work out. Why? Because it isn’t a JOBS stimulus. It’s payback and pet projects.

None of us who write here form our opinions out of the clear blue sky. We actually use first rate sources and facts to do so. In case you haven’t noticed, a whole bunch of media sites think Obama is off to a rocky start – but I’m sure that’s their problem because they don’t believe in The One, not because Obama is off to a rocky start…No amt of facts will do for some people…

Nicely done!

Oh please there is NO media outlet that is more in the tank for Obama than MSNBC. So if you think that they are critical imagine what everyone else thinks !!

that’s about the size of it. trickle down, don’t you know.

this adminstration has been working harder than probably any other in modern times….

I have to disagree with you, he and his admin. have not been working harder. Unless you mean they have been working hard to make sure that no more tax cheats get outed. I doubt Obama has put more than three hours real work on his “Stimulus Package”, he left that all up to Pelosi and her group and then pretended to work up a sweat by going around and talking to his political friends in Congress to make sure it was passed. He is in perpetual campaign mode (that is all he is capable of) and does not know how to lead. The only person in his administration that knows what hard work is and who is doing the hard work is Hillary.