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Home And Abroad

By Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy on February 18, 2009 at 9:10 PM in Auto Industry, Barack Obama, Economic Stimulus, Hillary Clinton, Indonesia, Japan, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton

Well, GM is back in our pockets, wanting more money. Bill Hemmer interviewed Rep. Thadeus McCotter about the Stimulus Package, as well as what GM is going to do differently. One point he made was this: GM offered 10,000 – that is TEN THOUSAND – options on cars to the car buyer. Toyota Camry and Honda Civic, the two most popular cars in the country, offered 15. FIFTEEN. GM is going to cut down the options to 1,000 – that’s ONE THOUSAND. I am sure you can figure out that the more options made available, the greater the cost for the vehicle. Here’s the video:

No freakin’ WONDER they are doing so poorly. When this Representative says they have done everything they need to do, well, that clearly not. If they HAD, they would not be in this shape. It is insane for them to offer so many options. That is just poor, poor management on the part of GM. And WE are paying for their poor management. Even now, they are locked into discussions with the UAW again. Once again, they want OUR money to pay for their employees.

Here’s the thing. My retirement fund is CRAP now with the stock market the way it is. My partner’s retirement fund is CRAP now because of the stock market. We are having to COMPLETELY rework our retirement plans as a result, including when my partner can retire, as a result. That is the real world consequence. Yet, the auto companies want to pass those real world consequences onto US. They want to make US pay for them, so their employees DON’T have to face the consequences of making products people don’t want to buy, and offering an obscene number of “options” that increase the costs of making the cars. It is absurd!! But here they are, back at the trough, wanting more and more of OUR money. Of course, we all knew this was going to happen, despite assurances to the contrary. Big surprise – not.

As for going abroad, yesterday I saw Secretary of State Clinton arriving at the Imperial Palace in Japan to engage in a tea ceremony with Empress Michiko. When they met, you could see how much affection these two women have for each other:

And you can see part of the ceremony here, as well as a brief report of her visit to Japan.

Clinton is now in Indonesia:

The U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said here Wednesday on the second leg of her Asian trip that the United States and Indonesia would form a comprehensive partnership.

She said at a joint press conference after meeting with the Indonesian Minister of Foreign Affairs Hassan Wirayuda that the United States had recognized the importance of Indonesia, which shares not only common interests but also common values with it.

Specifically, she was referring to democratic values.

It gives me some hope to have Hillary Clinton speaking for us around the world. It should be HER policies she is espousing and not Obama’s, but still – her presence, her abilities, her knowledge all make her uniquely qualified to engage with other nations. She makes me proud.

Ferd Berfle

To be greeted by the Empress of Japan in such a manner speaks volumes about Hillary. What could have been….

http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

What SHOULD have been, but I hear ya, Ferd…
mary

Empress Michiko almost never grants interviews or receives foreign dignitaries. She broke her own tradition seeing Hillary….her old friend! Only Hillary…..
And I feel sad that it was Obama who visited Canada today and not Hillary….

beebop

Obomba couldn’t carry Hillary’s water.

Docelder

Therein lies the problem with bailouts. Toyota is profitable and GM can be made to artificially survive without emulating a successful business model. If we let GM go broke, then either Toyota would produce more cars, employing people in a stable job… else somebody would take over GM’s facilities and assets and model their company after a successful one… such as Toyota. Thing is we could extend this logic to banks, insurance companies, name it… everybody that we artificially support to exist. That is the problem with these bailouts… it’s not a red state vs. blue state thing… it’s just business, or it should be.

to77

Honestly I dont understand why it takes anymore analysis for why american auto industry is in trouble then this: US auto companies spend $78 per hour on labor costs, foreign auto makers with factories HERE IN THE U.S. spend $45 per hour on labor costs.

You dont have to be an MBA to realize if your labor costs per car is $4000 while your competition $2200 you start behind. That difference would have produced an additional $5.3 billion in income last year for GM. They are burdened by labor agreements that were negotiated in the 60′s when there was no foreign competition and they need to be redone to be competitive. Let them file bankruptcy and redo everything. It will produce more stability and provide more jobs for the American auto worker without the constant specter of layoffs. The employees of Japanese auto factories here in the US are being paid a good wage and have little fear of layoffs.

to77

the 5.3 billion is wrong. $1800 on 8,355,947 cars is over $15 billion.
elise

GM, Ford and Chrysler are stuck with dinosaurs they can’t sell because in the last few months the American people are finally deciding conserving gas might be more important than the social status of driving an SUV. A year or two ago, commercials for autos never even included the MPG as a selling point because the majority of American people didn’t care. I don’t know if Detroit decided this was what buyers wanted or the buyers decided and it doesn’t matter since everyone is complicit. After the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, someone got the brilliant idea of building and selling Hummers. A consumer may have watched the invasion and said. “OH! I WANT ONE OF THOSE” . Who knows where this absurd idea came from but now GM is stuck with them. During the same period of time. Japanese car makers were more foresighted and began making hybrids and energy efficient cars. The CEO od Toyota makes less than a million/yr and Ford CEO made approx. twenty five million last year. Greed and stupidity.

to77

just not true. US auto makers offer as many models with high MPG as the foreign automakers. In addition ALL of the foreign makers from Mercedes to Hyundai offer SUVs in America (my gosh people, Toyota offers 6 SUV models that average about 17mpg). You know why? because they sell in America.

US auto makers sell many small, fuel efficient cars in Europe not available here. you know why? because europeans buy them, Americans don’t.

by the way introduction of the Hummer began in the late eighties, eventually launching in 1992, long before we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan (2003/2001)

to77

Toyota was #1 in sales but ranks #10 in MPG for it’s line with Prius making up less then 1% of it’s total sales. Chevrolet, Pontiac and Saturn all scored better in MPG rankings then Toyota.

http://www.automotivetraveler.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=305&Itemid=131

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2503/

elise

You were right about the Hummer, 77. It was the Gulf War, AG began production for commercial HumVees and they later sold it to GM. Toyota and Honda were the first auto makers to sell hybrid cars. American auto makers have yet to produce one with anywhere near the millage. Car dealerships have been stuck with SUVs because they can’t sell them anymore. You don’t need a link to tell you that’s true. All you need to do is drive by any dealer’s lot and you can see row after row of them. Check the classified ads.

Top 5 Most Fuel Efficient American Cars:
Ford Escape Hybrid – 36 mpg city / 31 mpg highway
Chevy Aveo – 26 mpg city / 35 mpg highway
Ford Focus – 26 mpg city / 34 mpg highway
Chevy Cobalt – 25 mpg city / 34 mpg highway
Ford Fusion – 24 mpg city / 32 mpg highway

Top 5 Most Fuel Efficient Japanese Cars:
Honda Insight – 60 mpg city / 66 mpg highway
Toyota Prius – 60 mpg city / 51 mpg highway
Honda Civic Hybrid – 49 mpg city / 51 highway
Toyota Corolla – 32 mpg city / 41 mpg highway
Toyota Matrix – 30 mpg city / 36 mpg highway

heather

My driving an SUV isn’t about status. I defy you to name the vehicle that would be great on mileage, would be big enough to carry five or six kids on a vacation with all of their stuff, and would be able to navigate the streets of my area where only the main roads get plowed. It’s just not out there.

I have considered buying a small car for getting about town so that I wouldn’t be using the gas that my Yukon XL does when I don’t need all the space, but I think, environmentally speaking, there is probably more waste in having an extra car than there is in the extra gas.

Many, many people that I know would not be able to make it to work every day here if they didn’t have a four wheel drive vehicle in the winter, and they also have children, hockey bags, etc. that don’t fit in a SMART car or a Prius.

AlexisM

You’re allowed to have your SUV. This is America, not Cuba where they still drive 1957 Chevys. People are just jealous of those who have money to buy Hummers, etc. It’s crap. I can’t wait for the big revolution in this country so this nonsense stops. If people don’t like us driving whatever car we want, in our right to the “pursuit of happiness” then they can move. End of story.

elise

I think the issue is not freedom to drive the car you want, which I would support to my death, it is about why GM, Chrysler and Ford are asking for government handouts because they can’t sell the cars they built, their CEOs make millions of dollars a year for mismanaging these once great companies into the ground. As for SUVs, I rarely see them full of people. There is usually one or two people and the driver or just a driver. For large families or mother’s who support their kids in car pools to school or athletic events, of course a larger vehicle is necessary. And Detroit could have addressed the problem of gas guzzlers long ago, because this mileage can be reduced even on large cars. Pick up trucks are also handy to have around and a necessity for some business and farming. But millage on those vehicles on can be reduced as well if there were motivation. If you think I am shallow enough to envy the possession of a car, well that leaves me pretty much speechless.

heather

I live here in Detroit and have worked in a capacity where I had to interface with the unions. I know that their pay package adds up to a higher cost, but one of the real higher cost is in the work rules that are mandated in dealing with the union. As an example, my company was going to replace a large number of computer workstations in the plant. We wanted to do it in such a way that it would be seamless to the customer, so we agreed to come in (for free) on the weekend after work hours to do it – that way the employees would come back on Monday and be able to get right to work.

First, we had to have meetings with the union on how it was going to happen. Obviously, installing computers involves cabling into the network, and plugging them in (among lots of other things). The electrical workers refused to allow us to plug each computer in – tense negotiations ensued and it ended up that they would allow us to do everything except plug them into the electrical outlet. Every computer that got unpacked and set up had to wait for a union member to come and plug it in. It took a long job (for me) and made it exponentially longer. And God forbid that you get frustrated and they perceive that you are frustrated — they might take two or three hours to respond to your request. This is the way all of these companies run.

And then there’s just outright theft from the company:
http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/15908257/index.html

Imagine how many people are doing exactly this, and yet unions will be asked to do absolutely nothing to change this.
Ferd Berfle

Well, add in stupid management and stupid engineers and you have failure written all over it. The workers are the least of it. They just build the crap they’re told to. See the running joke about the canoe race and American Auto companies versus the Japanese and you might get it.

heather

I thought that I heard that this last quarter, even Toyota lost money. Can’t give you a citation, probably dreamed it, but I could swear that was truth. Anyone?

sowsear

See the Mayor of Lansing get his say about auto workers:
http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/whoa-go-lansing-michigan/
http://www.latinarepublican.com Latina Republican

These auto companies need to file bankruptcy and do away with the got damn unions who are in it for themselves. The average GM worker makes 90.00+ per hour which includes benefits, while the Toyota worker makes 40.00+ per hour.

This is a f*cking no-brainer. It’s time for these ass wipes to file bankruptcy and shove their corporate luxury jets up their respective arses.

anon

According to the Center for Automotive Research, in 2008 the average big-3 assembly line auto worker earned about $30 per hour–roughly $3 an hour more than Toyota’s comparable workers.

The higher big-3 figure most commonly quoted by anti-unionists–$70 per hour–represents the estimated total hourly cost to the employer. They get it by throwing in the estimated value of employer-paid costs for health insurance, unemployment insurance, workers compensation coverage, and pension for current workers, plus their average cost of pension and health benefits for workers already retired, and their widows.

Asserting that union automotive workers are paid $70 an hour is deliberately misleading. Bumping that figure up to $90 an hour goes well beyond misleading.

Anti-unionists seldom mention the levels of corporate management compensation, for some strange reason.

to77

nobody is saying the workers are pocketing $70+an hour. we are saying the LABOR COSTS negotiated by the unions are $70+ an hour. The primary issues are the pensions and job banks. Toyota doesnt have that anchor. Again it is a hold over from 60′s era economics. It has to be dealt with, period. It is not “deliberately misleading” it is the truth. I assumed the readers of this site were smart enough to realize that US auto workers aren’t being paid $145,000 a year in salary.

You guys are so caught up in defending an ideology instead of facing reality. Higher expenses produces a competitive disadvantage. GM would have $5.3 billion more in profit if they were in the same labor situation.

to77

again, not 5.3 billion $15 billion.

Snickers

Thank you Anon, for pointing this out. Instead of griping and sniping at unions workers and wanting to cut their pay and benefits, we should work on increasing pay and benefits for other workers in other areas.

AlexisM

I get confused about this stuff because it’s so out there…so, I guess you guys are saying that someone who never went to college, never had corporate, executive training, etc. (but I am sure is a wonderful person), nevertheless, not capable of running a massive corporation…you think that person on the assembly line should make the same salary as the CEO? Wow. That’s just…wow.

You people really think that, no matter what job we all do, we should all make the same salaries, live in the same houses, drive the same cars? What kind of psychotic life is that? I really don’t get the liberal thing. Y’all do know this is America, right???? Or, it was.
heather

Snickers, I’m confused. If we increase pay and benefits for workers across the board, isn’t that just a zero sum game? It seems so obvious to me that if we raised the pay of all workers, we wouldn’t get anywhere, because the COST of what those workers produced would then include the higher wages, thus making everthing more expensive to buy.

Seriously, the last time I watched Oprah was several years ago when she did a show advocating for a minimum wage of $20/hour. She showed three or four families who were struggling to survive on a minimum wage income. One of the families had four children, a stay at home mom, and a father who worked as a phlebotomist at a hospital for $19,000 a year. The family was really struggling and it was really sad to see the conditions that they lived in. Call me hard hearted if you like, but the point that came through to me from her little exercise was that people need to make better choices — what the heck was this guy doing creating four human beings and choosing a $19,000/year profession? You can’t have it all — if you really love that job then you should probably consider having fewer children, or if you’re really into kids, then you should work toward having a higher paying job, or maybe your wife should take a job, or some combination thereof.

What Oprah doesn’t understand, and what many people don’t understand is that raising the wages of these people wouldn’t, in the end, do anything, other than raise the prices that we pay for everything. If an unskilled nursing home worker had to be paid $20 plus benefits to change sheets and bedpans, then the price to get nursing home care would rise, or fewer people would be employed to do the same amount of work. I would have loved to see Oprah’s message to be, instead, that those who still had choices to make needed to understand the real world and what it takes to live in it. It may be the easier road to screw off in high school and go to work in a factory or something than it would be to work your butt off to get the training or education to do a job that commands the wages that you would like, but, as my husband tells the kids he works with “The harder I work, the luckier I get”.

heather

I live in a neighborhood of GM, Ford, and Chrysler execs (or what’s left of them). I can tell you that my neighbor (GM) in the last several years went from having great medical benefits to having a self funded medical insurance program. They take money from his paycheck and put it into an account on a tax free basis. This is what they pay their medical bills out of. If the amount during the year goes over a several thousand dollar limit, then they have a backup insurance plan that will kick in (like in the case of a catastrophic illness), but for the most part, he is just paying for his family’s medical care. This man has a master’s degree from the University of Michigan — he did all the right things to make himself a valuable employee, and yet he doesn’t qualify for the same medical program that the union workers do. He accepts that this is the way it is when his company is struggling, but I don’t see the same understanding on the part of the union.

This man works late every day (and doesn’t get paid overtime for it), travels every other week, leaving his wife to tend to all of the needs of the family for half of the year, again, without extra compensation. Most of these guys are being asked to do their own jobs as well as the jobs of several others who have been let go, again, without extra compensation. I talked to one woman whose husband’s department went from 60 down to 4, and although he will struggle, he is happy to be one of the four left. I am surrounded on all sides by these professionals from all of these companies, and I see an attitude of determination on the part of all of them. They want to see these companies succeed, and they are willing to take lower pay and longer hours to do it. The same thing with the people who work for auto suppliers. Long hours, weeks away from home, sacrifice in benefits, and yet the guys who are in the manufacturing end are seldom asked to make similar sacrifice for the good of the company.

I despair for the companies that I grew up with. I don’t see anything getting better until all the oars are in the water and they’re all rowing in the same direction. Given the hundreds of millions of dollars that our president accepted from the unions with the idea that he will help them to become stronger, I don’t really see it happening.

JozefAL

Yeah, right. And I am so sure that overpaid management and CEOs had absolutely nothing to do with the industry’s woes. But leave it to a RepubliCON to blame the unions without equally blaming bad management decisions.
If it weren’t for the unions, the Toyota workers wouldn’t even be making $40 an hour. How much do Toyota workers in JAPAN (a sizable number of whom are union members, a stark contrast to their American counterparts) make per hour?

to77

Let me make this clear: The pay of management and CEO’s has NO practical impact on the industries woes. If the management made $0 dollars the effect on the bottom line would be NOTHING. GM gross automotive annual income is around $150 billion dollars a year. The average annual compensation for the CEO is around $10 million which is less then .001% of the gross income. the difference in labor costs world wide between toyota and gm at $1800 per auto on 8,355,947 cars is a total of $15,040,704,600. The issue is not blame it is FACTS.

Thats the difference you liberal, envy, class warfare, union apologists think it is about assigning blame. It is about SOLVING THE PROBLEM. I dont give a damn about how much the CEO’s make, I am not defending them. wiping out their salaries does nothing to solve the problem. providing the means for the corporation to renegotiate an oppressive labor contract that puts the corporation at a disadvantage SAVES JOBS for the AMERICAN WORKER.

And by the way Toyota workers in Japan make $47,000 a year plus benefits. Not sure what your point is with that question.

AlexisM

Thats the difference you liberal, envy, class warfare, union apologists think it is about assigning blame

Exactly. It’s anti-American and the reason we are now going to be a little communist republic like Cuba. Because the majority of liberals are blind with jealous rage over anyone who earns a decent living.

sowsear

Re: Executive bonuses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP73cK3GXdo&eurl=http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wABI2dwbQMQ&eurl=http://warongreed.org/
Cindy

Rev. Amy—great post! Hey, maybe “G M” stands for “Got More????”
Thanks for the wonderful photo of Hillary and Empress Michiko. Now THAT’s what I call REAL class! Makes me proud, too, but very sad.
http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com uppity woman

The reason Toyota only offers 15 options is because just about everything COMES with the base price of the car. But American Automakers have been bilking people with “options” for decades, pumping up the prices of their cars with everything from ashtrays to floor mats. In their own silly greedy way, they screwed themselves with all these “special orders” and dealer addons that crank up the price. And people do not want to “wait” for cars any longer. Those days are gone.

In order for them to cut the options they will have to (gasp!!) start offering cars with the same standard equipment as Toyota and Honda do–at competitive prices.

After my horrendous experiences with American cars, and that means EVERY American car I have ever owned, I swore off of them years ago. They could offer me a buy one get one free deal and I still wouldn’t buy one. While I am a propoenent of “Buy American,” that doesn’t give auto manufacturers the license to screw me with those lemons they love to sell.

http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

I agree completely – they said that those 10,000 options included things under the hood.

My partner, who works with software used by many auto industries, said that if they offer it as standard equipment on every car, they should be able to do it cost effectively as the price of the components will go down, the inventory carrying cost will go down, the supply chain management cost will go down, and efficiency should go up.

And while I am all for Buying American for most things, I have never owned an American car in my life (when people joke that Ford stands for “Fix Or Repair Daily, you know why I’ve always owned foreign cars).

I’m A Linda, Too – Abt Hillary, I know. I feel like she’s the grown up in this whole Admin (I think I said that when she was up for the job). Obama is trying out every little perk he can, using AF 1 as much as possible. Meanwhile, Clinton is the one talking tough to N. Korea.

And I wish I could find the darn video they showed of her greeting Empress Michiko – it was so lovely Clearly, they have great affection for one another. I have seen that look a lot when people are meeting her (on this trip).

I am so sorry to hear abt your mother. Sadly, that is a story being repeated all across the country. I remember when this happened a few years ago, when teachers were especially hard hit. Many who had already retired or who were on the verge had to go back to work because they lost everything.

This is one helluva mess we are in. And while I understand the American car makers employ lots of people, if they cannot run a competitive business, and others CAN, they must change their model.

And while I am generally pro-union, I have seen unions negotiate themselves right out of jobs because they bring down their companies. And frankly, while I feel for them, I do not want to be supplementing THEIR retirements negotiated by their leaders when mine is gone through no fault of my own.

Difficult situation, though, and not a black/white one, either…

I’m a Linda too

Thank you RRRA

You can see the power Hillary has just standing there. Secretary of State Clinton will be the only bright spot in these coming 4 years, I believe. If she doesn’t get drowned out by BOberry’s failures.

I hear ya on the retirment funds. As you said, we are all suffering. I fear for my Mom the worst. She has retired and now to have lost a majority of what she had is scary, besides stressful and sad. She only advised me after it happened that she went and put all her savings in the market, unlike the last time we talked about it in 2000 when she had less. Why, I can only guess. The only bright spot is that her house is paid and she rarely spends money on herself anyhow, so I surely don’t give a crap that there’s “less for us kids” now or when she’s gone. She should be able to enjoy her life she worked so hard for, raising 5 kids by herself and having to go back to work full time until she was able to retire. OK, got to stop thinking about it, my heart hurts.

And now, the car thingy. Well, isn’t that just ducky. Heavean forbid they put incentives in the stimulus bill for the people that will actually achieve what it was supposed to. So they stripped out an incentive for write off interst for the PEOPLE to buy cars and instead gave a huge fatty pork 9 course meal to Senator Reid for a choo choo to between Cali and Sin City. And then added a tax write off of up to 10 billion dollars to GM. Again, give it to the businesses and special interests that won’t do d!ck for stimulating the economy as was supposed to and SCREW THE PEOPLE, just make them pay for the politicians dirty dealings.
Docelder

Secretary of State Clinton will be the only bright spot in these coming 4 years

I anticipate her being offered the first available supreme court seat. As the post is for life, Hillary would be out of “O-mighty’s” business for good politically with that move.