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	<title>Comments on: “murderers” not “martyrs”</title>
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		<title>By: noname</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146492</link>
		<dc:creator>noname</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146492</guid>
		<description>pm, here is quite an alarming news report :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/4681480/US-privately-backs-Pakistans-Sharia-law-for-peace-deal-with-Taliban.html

  I am not sure what is happening here. Buying peace with arcane Sharia law is misnomer. It just legalizes the terrorist training camps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pm, here is quite an alarming news report :</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/4681480/US-privately-backs-Pakistans-Sharia-law-for-peace-deal-with-Taliban.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/4681480/US-privately-backs-Pakistans-Sharia-law-for-peace-deal-with-Taliban.html</a></p>
<p>  I am not sure what is happening here. Buying peace with arcane Sharia law is misnomer. It just legalizes the terrorist training camps.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonic Ninja Kitty</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146489</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonic Ninja Kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146489</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t downplay it, please--this is a really excellent post!!  Thank you for the information and links!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t downplay it, please&#8211;this is a really excellent post!!  Thank you for the information and links!</p>
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		<title>By: pm317</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146254</link>
		<dc:creator>pm317</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146254</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Friedman and MJ Akbar has a far more difficult job at hand than acting as courtiers.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Noname, I agree. The op-ed is somewhat motherhood and apple pie but we have to start somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Friedman and MJ Akbar has a far more difficult job at hand than acting as courtiers.</p></blockquote>
<p>Noname, I agree. The op-ed is somewhat motherhood and apple pie but we have to start somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: pm317</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146251</link>
		<dc:creator>pm317</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146251</guid>
		<description>Wow, UK is really going to dogs. In another article I found their Intelligence chief saying that 75% of their terror investigations lead them to Pakistan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, UK is really going to dogs. In another article I found their Intelligence chief saying that 75% of their terror investigations lead them to Pakistan.</p>
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		<title>By: pm317</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146244</link>
		<dc:creator>pm317</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146244</guid>
		<description>Gandhi got the secular India (not the unified one he envisioned of course).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gandhi got the secular India (not the unified one he envisioned of course).</p>
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		<title>By: pm317</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146242</link>
		<dc:creator>pm317</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146242</guid>
		<description>Mohammad Ali Jinnah was the driving force behind the creation of Pakistan. Gandhi was very much opposed to the partition. He wanted to build a unified secular India (which he did) but Jinnah wanted a separate Islamic country at all costs. Of course, the British stoked the fire of dividing the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mohammad Ali Jinnah was the driving force behind the creation of Pakistan. Gandhi was very much opposed to the partition. He wanted to build a unified secular India (which he did) but Jinnah wanted a separate Islamic country at all costs. Of course, the British stoked the fire of dividing the country.</p>
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		<title>By: noname</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146237</link>
		<dc:creator>noname</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146237</guid>
		<description>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/4736032/British-Muslims-providing-Taliban-with-electronic-devices-for-roadside-bombs.html

The above is a news report from today.

I have read a nobel prize winning author who described revolutionary activity London where people romanticized the Pakisthani mess in 1960s(?) when he was a student there.

 How to train a LSE student - no ordinary - to slit the throat of a journalists. How to train an MIT educated mother - no ordinary again-  to fight for taliban in deep Afganisthan and get caught by American forces in hostile conditions? I suspect this is how the wine drinking Jinnah was trained in Islam &lt;i&gt; Wine drinking is considered unislamic, however Jinnah was founder of Islamic state of Pakisthan  - which meant the land of the Pure &lt;/i&gt;  ! 

  Friedman and MJ Akbar has a far more difficult job at hand than acting as courtiers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/4736032/British-Muslims-providing-Taliban-with-electronic-devices-for-roadside-bombs.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/4736032/British-Muslims-providing-Taliban-with-electronic-devices-for-roadside-bombs.html</a></p>
<p>The above is a news report from today.</p>
<p>I have read a nobel prize winning author who described revolutionary activity London where people romanticized the Pakisthani mess in 1960s(?) when he was a student there.</p>
<p> How to train a LSE student &#8211; no ordinary &#8211; to slit the throat of a journalists. How to train an MIT educated mother &#8211; no ordinary again-  to fight for taliban in deep Afganisthan and get caught by American forces in hostile conditions? I suspect this is how the wine drinking Jinnah was trained in Islam <i> Wine drinking is considered unislamic, however Jinnah was founder of Islamic state of Pakisthan  &#8211; which meant the land of the Pure </i>  ! </p>
<p>  Friedman and MJ Akbar has a far more difficult job at hand than acting as courtiers.</p>
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		<title>By: noname</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146205</link>
		<dc:creator>noname</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 04:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146205</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; do a great service to Islam by delegitimizing suicide-murderers by refusing to bury their bodies. &lt;/i&gt;
  What is getting delegitimized ?  It seems, This is a lot of fuss about no service to mutilated dead bodies frozen in refrigerators. The Delegimization implies,  as if burial of Pakisthani terrorists- attacking a luxury hotel with live TV coverage - was alaways always a legitimate practice in  a legal world. 

   I can&#039;t think and hold on to a thought where Mumbai organization is declaring martyrs of the pakisthani terrorists, this would be like Kashmir of early 1990s. Therefore, I fail to appreciate its opposite, where  &quot;service&quot; is rendered by refusing to bury the dead bodies.


  Contemporary islamism is reformed to an ideological  revolutionary  organization, where consistent information legitimization is important for survival.  The refusal to bury the bodies could be construed as &quot;illegitimate&quot; &lt;i&gt; Not  &quot;delegitimization&quot; &lt;/i&gt; , only if you accept there exists organizations with such claims as legitimate.

 Neither Friedman, Nor MJ Akbar goes into this ideological and organizational  structure that claims legitimacy of terrorism. Creation and cleaning of Pakisthan was blamed upon the  communal hindu in Mahatma Gandhi and his congress party. Kashmir terrorism was ascribed to free will of a set of pampered people.

 MJ Akbar also doesn&#039;t  see the problem when he says Jehad as  something good, contrary to  fassad ...

&lt;i&gt;
The Koranic term for the killing of innocents is ‘fasad.’ Terrorists are fasadis, not jihadis. In a beautiful verse, the Koran says that the killing of an innocent is akin to slaying the whole community.
&lt;/i&gt;

  Changing the word to fassad means merely engaging a dialog with the radicals. Considering what I have read about the Quoran ( See Fitna), I don&#039;t think, MJ Akbar even, would win the argument, much less rescuing or  &quot;deligitimizing&quot; from a fierce political movement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> do a great service to Islam by delegitimizing suicide-murderers by refusing to bury their bodies. </i><br />
  What is getting delegitimized ?  It seems, This is a lot of fuss about no service to mutilated dead bodies frozen in refrigerators. The Delegimization implies,  as if burial of Pakisthani terrorists- attacking a luxury hotel with live TV coverage &#8211; was alaways always a legitimate practice in  a legal world. </p>
<p>   I can&#8217;t think and hold on to a thought where Mumbai organization is declaring martyrs of the pakisthani terrorists, this would be like Kashmir of early 1990s. Therefore, I fail to appreciate its opposite, where  &#8220;service&#8221; is rendered by refusing to bury the dead bodies.</p>
<p>  Contemporary islamism is reformed to an ideological  revolutionary  organization, where consistent information legitimization is important for survival.  The refusal to bury the bodies could be construed as &#8220;illegitimate&#8221; <i> Not  &#8220;delegitimization&#8221; </i> , only if you accept there exists organizations with such claims as legitimate.</p>
<p> Neither Friedman, Nor MJ Akbar goes into this ideological and organizational  structure that claims legitimacy of terrorism. Creation and cleaning of Pakisthan was blamed upon the  communal hindu in Mahatma Gandhi and his congress party. Kashmir terrorism was ascribed to free will of a set of pampered people.</p>
<p> MJ Akbar also doesn&#8217;t  see the problem when he says Jehad as  something good, contrary to  fassad &#8230;</p>
<p><i><br />
The Koranic term for the killing of innocents is ‘fasad.’ Terrorists are fasadis, not jihadis. In a beautiful verse, the Koran says that the killing of an innocent is akin to slaying the whole community.<br />
</i></p>
<p>  Changing the word to fassad means merely engaging a dialog with the radicals. Considering what I have read about the Quoran ( See Fitna), I don&#8217;t think, MJ Akbar even, would win the argument, much less rescuing or  &#8220;deligitimizing&#8221; from a fierce political movement.</p>
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		<title>By: pm317</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146179</link>
		<dc:creator>pm317</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 04:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146179</guid>
		<description>Holbrooke on Charlie Rose right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holbrooke on Charlie Rose right now.</p>
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		<title>By: pm317</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146176</link>
		<dc:creator>pm317</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 04:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146176</guid>
		<description>:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Linda Anselmi</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146172</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Anselmi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 03:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146172</guid>
		<description>Thank you pm317.  A great post.  Enjoyed your discussion with dcmedia on the Octo post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you pm317.  A great post.  Enjoyed your discussion with dcmedia on the Octo post.</p>
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		<title>By: pm317</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146103</link>
		<dc:creator>pm317</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 02:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146103</guid>
		<description>Taliban is getting 200 to 300 million from opium trade every year. 

Pakistan&#039;s Dawn newspaper appears to be good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taliban is getting 200 to 300 million from opium trade every year. </p>
<p>Pakistan&#8217;s Dawn newspaper appears to be good.</p>
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		<title>By: elise</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146073</link>
		<dc:creator>elise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 01:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146073</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;what should the US and other countries do?&quot;&lt;/i?

Our lives may depend of whether or not Obama answers the question correctly. Pakistan is a nuclear country and how many bombs do they have? They probably don&#039;t have the technology to send them here in the form of missles, but they are capable of bombing India and a close relationship with the Taliban is not good for the US or any other country in the world. We don&#039;t have the military for a confrontation with anyone. Obama is sending some troops to Afganistan, but not enough and if he&#039;s taking soldiers from Iraq, he needs to do it carefully and slowly. Another little thing. We are esentially broke. China won&#039;t lend us money for another war. Diane Feinstein let the cat out of the bag about the US flying drones to the Pakistan border from a base in Pakistan. I doen&#039;t matter if it&#039;s Bush&#039;s fault, it is now Obama&#039;s problem (and ours). Maybe Hillary can convince the Pakistani government to allow a US presense to protect the nuclear establishment there in exchange for helping solidify the prime minister&#039;s power. Or is that niave? The answer has to be in Alfganistan and India. Friendship with India and keeping our promises to rebuild the infrastructure in Alganistan would isolate Pakistan.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;what should the US and other countries do?&#8221;&lt;/i?</p>
<p>Our lives may depend of whether or not Obama answers the question correctly. Pakistan is a nuclear country and how many bombs do they have? They probably don&#8217;t have the technology to send them here in the form of missles, but they are capable of bombing India and a close relationship with the Taliban is not good for the US or any other country in the world. We don&#8217;t have the military for a confrontation with anyone. Obama is sending some troops to Afganistan, but not enough and if he&#8217;s taking soldiers from Iraq, he needs to do it carefully and slowly. Another little thing. We are esentially broke. China won&#8217;t lend us money for another war. Diane Feinstein let the cat out of the bag about the US flying drones to the Pakistan border from a base in Pakistan. I doen&#8217;t matter if it&#8217;s Bush&#8217;s fault, it is now Obama&#8217;s problem (and ours). Maybe Hillary can convince the Pakistani government to allow a US presense to protect the nuclear establishment there in exchange for helping solidify the prime minister&#8217;s power. Or is that niave? The answer has to be in Alfganistan and India. Friendship with India and keeping our promises to rebuild the infrastructure in Alganistan would isolate Pakistan.</i></p>
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		<title>By: TeakWoodKite</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1146009</link>
		<dc:creator>TeakWoodKite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1146009</guid>
		<description>Some of the Pakistani papers are interesting in that regarding as well...

I wish I understood better the reasons that elements in Pakistan want an unstable Afghanistan other than the weapons and drug trade. Although the Taliban say they are against the Opium trade, I recall they only wanted total control of it and to that end...

What do you get when both countries are increasingly &quot;unstable&quot;? This what am deeply concerned about when comes to US foriegn policy and BO. Trouble is coming right quick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the Pakistani papers are interesting in that regarding as well&#8230;</p>
<p>I wish I understood better the reasons that elements in Pakistan want an unstable Afghanistan other than the weapons and drug trade. Although the Taliban say they are against the Opium trade, I recall they only wanted total control of it and to that end&#8230;</p>
<p>What do you get when both countries are increasingly &#8220;unstable&#8221;? This what am deeply concerned about when comes to US foriegn policy and BO. Trouble is coming right quick.</p>
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		<title>By: pm317</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/14871/%e2%80%9cmurderers%e2%80%9d-not-%e2%80%9cmartyrs%e2%80%9d/#comment-1145968</link>
		<dc:creator>pm317</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=14871#comment-1145968</guid>
		<description>Teak, Pakistan will be a thorn in any healthy and stable solution to Afghanistan because they don&#039;t want a strong govt in Afghanistan that may be friendly with Iran, China, Russia, and India. What Pakistan wants in Afghanistan is what was there before, the Talibans.

You are also right about MSM. I tried to look for AP and other news sources for this but they are so superficial. With the Indian Newspapers you get the real quotes from people like Holbrooke and others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teak, Pakistan will be a thorn in any healthy and stable solution to Afghanistan because they don&#8217;t want a strong govt in Afghanistan that may be friendly with Iran, China, Russia, and India. What Pakistan wants in Afghanistan is what was there before, the Talibans.</p>
<p>You are also right about MSM. I tried to look for AP and other news sources for this but they are so superficial. With the Indian Newspapers you get the real quotes from people like Holbrooke and others.</p>
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