Stifled Voices

Lil Mike,

How many ice ages have we had prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine? Hell, prior to the Industrial Revolution? Do you now how CO2 works, try this,,place a can of your favorite soda in your garage and another in the refrig. In 30 days tell me which one is flat?

Lil Mike, I’m not a scientist but if you really use your brain you can see that the earth has been warming since the last ice age, which was when? Yes, the glaciers have been melting, melting since that time so many eons ago. The coastline of the Pacific was so far inland that Oregon and Washington as we know it was under water. The Blue Mountain Range in eastern Oregon was the coast of Oregon. When the waters started receding, Oregon’s climate was semi-tropic but as the centuries passed eastern Oregon became an arrid climate and remains so to this day.

So yes our climate has been warming, but now the ice in the Antarctic is growing because it is getting colder. Another ice age coming in next few centuries?

I think the point is not weather the “weatherman” is the expert but rather that 300000 competant experts are not heard on the issue….you can insult him and them all you want but it only shows how indoctrinated and zealous you are…..the truth should be the main preoccupation here. The fascists media-leftist kabbal will do anything to stiffle discussion. Why? Does that not concern you zealots. geeze louis..you people are so nasty that I am starting to fear that you guys are close to wanting litterally kill any opponent…just like Nazis, fascits and commis. Wake up people…you are making the discussion and political scene toxic. Insults won’t get you to the truth. Is the truth really what you even want? It sure doesn’t seem like it is.

He also has 30,000 scientist behind him. It may not be picking up steam here yet, but it is in Europe. I personally do not believe in Global Warming the way it has been presented.

I think there are many things we do to screw up the environment, but I think a lot of what is happening now is the Earth’s way of cleansing herself. It is THE very reason why she has existed for so many years. Been able to sustain life. We know she paused on her Chandler’s Wobble several years ago now, which signaled a tilt. The sun spots…We’ve had all the signs of another ice age. We’ve known that was coming since the 70′s. In fact scientist back in the 20′s warned of another ice age within the next 50 to 100 years. We are 100′s of years behind in her natural course of cleansing.

I also think environmentalist do a lot of the screwing up of nature themselves. It take mother nature years to catch up to man. Yet, what are we doing? How many plants do you have on your street that are actually indigenous to your region? How many animals after years of extinction have been taken and thrown into the mix?

You can’t plant rainforest’s where there were none. You can’t introduce a species that has been extinct in a region for 50+ years, she’s already prepared herself for that extinction. Look at the wolf populations in Yellowstone and what is happening. Perfect example.

Those things have to be done slowly or you introduce populations that go unchecked which bring what? Disease that goes unchecked. Disease that mutates and is able to cross from species to species. The extinction of other animals that previously weren’t in danger. Starling introduction to this country another perfect example.

Starlings are very intelligent birds related to the myna bird and can actually talk as well as any gray parrot. They’re learning how to get along with the other bird species here, but they were not indigenous to the USA, so they almost caused the extinction of several bird species. How many people wanted to kill them after introducing them and nature catching up and preparing herself for them? House sparrows another one. Our own government sent out recipes for how to cook Starlings. Do you know what a disaster that would have caused? Let’s introduce a species, give nature 40 or 50 years of them being here. Wait they’re causing the extinction of other birds! Oops that didn’t work let’s remove them all quickly. No, that would have cause no problems in nature. Took the Starling less time than man to learn how to live among-st other birds. Man still hasn’t learned. All these things effect nature.

Domesticated cats, do you know how many species of animals cats have singlehandedly caused the extinction of? Yet people let them wander around to do their thing. Now cats have their own form of HIV. How did that happen?

Look at the new diseases that are cropping up in deer, chickens. The bird flu has been around since the 40′s. But, wait now it’s mutated, it’s crossed over to man. It isn’t something new. Anyone that’s rescued wildlife will tell you every year you get one species of birds that do not prosper. That are ill, that you have larger death counts in. We’ve had a vaccine for the bird flu in animals since the 50′s. The problem is nature is not controlling them because of man’s interference. Sometimes the best intentions turn out to be the worse. Nature is full of checks and balances. And both sides have made major screw-ups.

Etc. Etc. Etc. Blah, blah, blah.

Yes, we have no control… yet over cyclical natural weather patterns. But we can only imagine… seeing now the value of Madoff stock certificates… what the value then of “carbon offsets” really is. I imagine the two are worth about the same.

Dr. John S. Theon wasn’t Hansen’s supervisor. He oversaw the the allocation of his funding at one time. Theon retired from NASA over 15 years ago, so one must wonder what he actually knows of the pressures the Bush administration imposed on government climate scientists during the last 8. Remember the 2007 senate committee hearings that revealed the systematic suppression of scientific findings?

The list of names of scientists who have signed the petition can be found at:
http://www.petitionproject.org/gwdatabase/Signers_By_Last_Name.php

Al Gore is not high on my list of favorite people and I didn’t hear about global warming from him the first time. It was in an environmental geology class years ago. Increased co2 levels will not encourage the growth of algae producing O2. The oceans are depleted and thousands of years of coral reef formations are dying off and the overfishing of certain species of life is changing the ecology. Besides, are you willing to gamble things will evolve in a way favorable to human beings? If you get into your car, start the engine and the garage door is shut, you will die from carbon monoxide poising. Just imagine millions of cars every day releasing this poison into the atmosphere and increasing over time until there is no breathable air left. Think about the ozone layer which protects the earth from the sun’s rays and at the same time keeps the poison from escaping into space producing a greenhouse which will raise the earths temperature, melt ice caps and cause the oceans to rise. This may not happen in our lifetime, but the majority of geologist and climatologist believe the point of no return is approaching.

Ginger, you gave me a good laugh. I, too, would prefer to err on the side of caution and I go with Al Gore. Elise, I agree with you. I suggest people read Plan B by Lester Brown president of the Earth Policy Institute. We are already growing short of water. And overpopulation is a real concern.

Before you give full license to demogogue to have power over how you live your life, don’t you think erring on the side of caution would be to get an understanding of all the data out there?

Having “faith” in a university drop out and a bunch or activist scientist….wow I’m shocked. I thought you leftist hated religion….I thought you guys only had faith in science. If so then you should know that good science is made up of analysis and discussion of all data…not just the data that fits your doctrine.

A good scientist should be able to explain why opposing data is the way it is……today though they just cover it up and pretend it doesn’t exist and vilify those who came up with it. SOUNDS LIKE THE INQUISTITION TO ME OR AT LEAST WHAT THE CATHOLIC SUCH DID TO GALILEO ETC. Mmm, I wonder if there’s a lesson here….but I’m sure its lost on you fools. Please wake up people and learn to think critically rather than cynically. You’re making the world a toxic place.

If you’ve worked on atmospheric modeling for a substantial portion of your rather long adult life, then it is very likely you’ve wasted most of your adult life.

Yes, “carbon offsets” is a business. Al Gore is in business. Business has been good. None of this means he was right.

Thank you for the link TM. The author says the theory is controversial and not accepted by mainstream scientist. The changes in planet climate is generally related to the wobble of the axis, not changes in the temp of the sun. He is also predicting a drastic cooling in 15-20years. If such a thing occurred do to changes in the sun, I guess the best thing we could do is party on until the party is over.

The main thrust of the article is that radical environmentalists seek to crush individual liberty, undermine modern society, and eventually reduce and eliminate mankind completely.

The problem with holding this belief is that you’re so busy looking over your shoulder all the time that you can’t see what’s in front of you.

It’s this sort of paranoia that makes otherwise rational people into seemingly blathering fools.

Thank you, Jenny, for sharing about your father-in-law being one of those who signed the petition.
CES (above poster) claimed the signatures were “bogus” and he called the signers “skeptics” as opposed to scientists. Some folks just don’t want to consider that there might be more to the story than what Al Gore put out there.

I had a physiology professor maybe 24 years ago as I count back the days in St. Louis… he was a NASA scientist and had worked in hypothermia… Dr. W. had the most interesting stories.

We had to replace our, too. They didn’t make it anymore. But gosh, go figure, it was 18 freakin’ years old. We could fix it, but why not INVEST in a new machine that would save us money down the line…

Sometimes they don’t make it anymore, because well, they learned how to make it better…as in more efficient…as in less money out of your pocket each month in energy costs.

Would you buy a new car today that only had technology that was new 18 years ago? Or try going to the movie store and get a Beta tape, or heck, a VHS tape to rent. Better go back to that Compaq 88MHz PC, cuz gosh cann’t let those lefties make you get a iMac.

If you want to throw away money each money just to stick it to Al Gore, please send it my way.

I hope you do realize that ‘conservation’ in the “green” context means to sustain something to the point that it can still be used indefinitely.

And my point is that nobody on the Right waits to see what it constructive. The immediate reaction is to stifle, if I may use that phrase, any reasoned approach to quality of (the Circle of) Life issues. The only consideration, when talking to my conservative friends and family is, will it make money. There are way to make money and be green. that’s been my rallying cry for decades (thank you very much), and it’s taken until now for cost of goods, etc to get so high that companies have to recycle more, etc to trim the fat of their budget.

I’m all about revolutionizing our industries to be more efficient and more self-dependent. Pump money into energy efficient technology so we don’t buy so much bloody foreign oil NOR pollute our air with coal. As an aside, I’m a self-described tree hugger, but dammit, I believe Nuclear is a big part of the solution IF DONE RIGHT. But these things take public buy in and government support. People have to let go of their fear of the government telling them what to do long enough for these new, much better technologies to gain a foot hold. And yes, the enviro-Nuts stopped nuclear are partly to blame, but so are the privatized companies that cut corners in site selection and maintenance.

Moreover, I am listening to opposing views. That’s why I’m here at NQ, and have been for more than a year. But on energy or global resources issues, all I’m hearing is, “I know someone who signed the thingy” and “pelosi made me buy a new HVAC unit.” Those are emotional responses, which if they were coming from someone on the “left” would be criticized by the people on the Right. I’m pushing back to make people rethink their own positions.

The reason there is still a “debate” among those experienced in climatology is because there is big money being thrown at it by big industry to keep it going. Moreover, it’s appropriate for us to continue talking about it on some level, because new data and new models come in all the time.

And please point out where I’ve ridiculed anyone on this thread. I’ve pointed questioned their positions, but not them personally. There’s a difference. My points have been rhetorical. In fact, I’m the one that was accused of being young and naive…with a little “I don’t want to conserve” for icing. I haven’t called anyone names. If you want to hear ridicule try being a Green Weenie (while still being a moderate on the whole)…if you say you’re an environmentalist, you instantly labeled as some peacenik hippy lovechild who waxes poetically while smokin’ a joint up in a redwood. Sorry, some of us are more reasoned about things, but are frustrated at the bias heaped against us.

Lastly, if you bring data to the table, and we can debate that. I make no apology for having my opinions and trying to make my point. After all, this is No Quarter, right?

ces–
We forgive you, my child.
Go and sin no more.

Even if it is not totally caused by humans, what harm can be done in doing those things that will lessen its impact on our lives? Even if it is a totally bogus theory, which I very much doubt, developing methods of cleaner energy can only help us and our planet and wean us off foreign oil.

That has been part of my point all along. The evidence is there. The only questions left are the source and the way it might be mitigated. The first is in the realm of science; the second involves everyone.

God you people don’t deserve Democracy….you’d be just as happy in a dictatorship it seems. “what harm can it do if the problem doesn’t exist”…..every harm in the world you $*&*%–especially if its used to control people’s lives, remove our individual rights and destroy our economies all for the sake of some made up crisis. There really is no way to wake you dough heads up, is there?

And then I’m the bad one for trying to preserve your stupid ass’s freedom–something you obviously don’t value.

God please help them!

A thousand thanks for your good works, sir.

And to the site administrators, who apparently recognize the high quality of same.

Thanks for the support.