Current Article

Universal Health Care (Give Me the “Change-Maker”)

By SusanUnPC on February 12, 2008 at 11:21 AM in Barack Obama, Health Care, Hillary Clinton

(H/T to Taylor Marsh’s “Welcome to The Show.“)

Before the Saturday caucus — from which my nurses and I were disenfranchised — I was furious to see Obama TV ads promising health care for all. Only Hillary’s plan brings universal care that requires all sign up or retain a plan, to make it economically viable (ex: preventive care dramatically lowers costs for undetected chronic diseases like diabetes and high blood pressure).

MyDD‘s Todd Beeton — who is tirelessly traversing the country reporting on the campaigns and events — wrote a must-read, “Obama’s “Universal” Healthcare Deception,” noting that John Edwards also sensibly included mandates. Beeton quotes Obama’s stump speech:

My opponents think the government should force you to buy healthcare. I believe that the reason people don’t have healthcare isn’t that they don’t want it, it’s that they can’t afford it.

“The line would often get a big cheer but I haven’t heard it lately,” Beeton observes.

In the wake of John Edwards’s departure from the race, Hillary has been hitting Barack harder on the fact that her plan offers universal healthcare while his, by definition, does not. So Obama has changed his rhetoric on the stump, now throwing the term “universal” around with abandon when describing his healthcare plan, as he did both the other night at the Virginia Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson dinner and at today’s University of Maryland rally. What’s worse, he used fear mongering to attack Hillary’s plan, saying flat out “she’s going to go after your wages,” referring to the tricky enforcement of a mandate healthcare system.

This is extremely problematic, for one thing, because Democrats using right-wing scare tactics on healthcare against other Democrats will, as Paul Krugman has pointed out, set back the universal healthcare cause. … Read all.

Beeton points to the “Q and A from the FAQ on his plan from [Obama's] website”:

Q: I don’t want the government telling me what doctors to see or what treatments to get. Will the Obama plan force these kinds of decisions on me?

A: Senator Obama agrees with you. His plan will not tell you which doctors to see or what treatments to get. Under the Obama plan…no government bureaucrat will second-guess decisions about your care.”

Beeton’s take:

“Government bureaucrat” as villain? Are you kidding me, who wrote this, Karl Rove?

Sometimes I wonder. It’s not a surprise that Karl Rove, David Brooks, George Will, Peggy (yech) Noonan are so besotted with Obama. They know that Obama will be so easily malleable and controllable, whereas Clinton is a true fighter, and highly experienced in dealing with the brutal attacks and incessant tactics designed to wear down, and water down, the president’s plan.

Then Beeton addresses a core problem that Obama — and his followers — have, which is the dishonesty of his claims as well as his spurious attacks on Clinton’s health care plan:

But there’s another problem that Obama’s supporters will have a problem coming to terms with, which is that it’s simply intellectually dishonest.

Obama doesn’t inherently have a problem with mandates. What he conveniently leaves out from his criticism of Clinton’s plan is that he thinks mandates are perfectly fine for children.

Last night, Beeton covered Bill Clinton’s speech at George Mason University:

One notable section of his remarks for me was when he spoke about healthcare as the biggest, if not the only, policy difference in this primary. He said most experts say that Obama’s plan will leave 15 million uncovered. He talked about the unique place we find ourselves in where doctors and nurses and business are all united behind universal healthcare. “Now is not the time for the Democratic Party to give up on universal healthcare.” He said “Neither of their plans is going to leave healthcare unaffordable to anyone, but you have to cover everyone.” He framed her mandate health care plan as uniquely progressive: “We put in so those that need it can take out…Those of us who are lucky enough to be well off should pay our fair share.” That’s what America is about, he said.

I loved this line from President Clinton’s speech that Todd jotted down:

My case for her is: she’s a world-class change-maker. My case for her is that she has the best positions on the issues and a good grip on what to do to turn these ideas into positive changes in your lives. My case for her is that she will not forget the look in your eyes that I see tonight…She won’t forget your hopes and dreams when times are good or bad.

THEN there’s the enormous political fight and administrative task of trying to propose a health care plan, even one as anemic as Obama’s (which opens the path for Republicans to water it down even more). Obama was asked on 60 Minutes about his managerial experience. His response was laughable. Via Politico’s Ben Smith:

For Obama, heading Obama for America is his executive experience.

And, from the Politico/WJLA interview, is this key observation about the fight in Hillary Clinton:

Senator Hillary Rodham (D-N.Y.) mocked Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) tonight for his high-flown rhetoric, suggesting she would fight important fights when he would back down.

Having already conceded the fight over universal health care — and opened a vulnerability to less-than-universal care that the Republicans can exploit — Obama would be subjected to relentless pressure from Republicans and lobbyists, and would find himself having to cave in, over and over, to get any kind of health care plan passed. And I predict it’ll be sorely wanting in the real health care reform and universal protections that every middle- and lower-class American desperately needs.

Don’t give me the one who promises this and that, but whose plans already set in motion the path for defeat from Republicans and lobbyists. GIVE ME THE CHANGE-MAKER!

Guthman Bey

Question for Harpie from Under the Stairs: Which of the following countries, all of whom offer universal healthcare, are featuring healthcare mandates as part of the insurance system: United Kingdom, France, Germany. Answer: Not one. None.
But of course Harpie doesn’t care. Harpie just maniacally throws anything against the wall to see what sticks.
Well I am tellin’ ya Harpie: So far not enough schmutz is sticking. So go try and find dirtier dirt, and lie and distort much much more. Verdict on Harpie so far: not dirty enough, needs to do better.

anna shame

But who are those that can leave themselves out? Mostly it’s self-employed fairly prosperous adults that are talked about, they can skip buying insurance and take their chances, and if they lose they can sign up later. I’m more concerned about the bottom third, those underemployed parents for whom every dine counts and who want to give their kids a better life, even if it’s a cheap toy or a movie. Those self-employed working poor won’t game the system, they’re honest, and when they get sick they’re much less likely to see a doctor and take the fine, and more likely to think they don’t deserve health care since they didn’t pay for insurance. I think Obama’s plan is heartless, and I can’t see way, as a Democratic candidate, he can’t get with the party. Why does he want to court Republicans and libertarians? There are more of us, why doesn’t he go after us?

norrismorris

Obama’s plan is geared for his “base”. Elites who can afford insurance, and too bad for the rest.

Michael Lafferty

While there are a number of issues that trouble me about both candidates, and both campaigns.

But, as a small business person who once provided reasonably affordable health care coverage to all employees AND their dependents at NO cost to our employees, the issue of health care is a deal breaker for me. Without clearly mandated, minimum, government administrated, universal health care, we will never resolve the myriad of issues concerning costs and coverage.

One need only look at health care coverage for active military, uniformed public health service, veterans and medicare recipients to understand that universal, government administered health care already exists, and is run reasonably, efficiently and cost effectively, to the degree that it is adequately funded.

Private, for profit health care in this nation is a disaster. And, it will only be more inefficient as time goes on.

It was not unusual for several years when our company provided coverage to watch our annual premiums double and triple. We fought this with benefit reductions, co-pay increases and, yes – increasing deductibles. One important lesson we learned as entrepreneurs: to continue to leave this complex and costly process in the hands of private enterprise is simply unworkable.

Fred C. Dobbs

Ah, isn’t it better to die on your own terms, as a Rugged American Individualist Marlboro Man – type than to kick in any tax money for the less fortunate?

After all, the Freedom to Die is Constitutionally mandated, isn’t it?

Like “Right to Work?”

Mike Howell

Fred C. Dobbs –

I do love lawyers. However, I have one small correction with your brief brief.

It’s the too well-known Frist Law. If some Doctor from Tennessee views your hospital bed video and thinks you’re really dancing, sadly no, you no longer have the freedom to die. Instead Congress will hold an emergency session – even in a time of war – and decide you are doing just fine!

Sure you can die in the war or from a lack of adequate health care or nutrition or from exposure, but you may not die while in a permanent vegatative state in an election year. It’s Republican law.
anna shame

how dare Hilary suggest “shared responsibility.’ It’s every man for himself, let the single moms figure out how to take care of themselves, no one asked them to have children and turn out poor and insurance-less. If not now, when?

CK

There is a fundamental problem with health care. That problem is that the consumer of health care is not the paying customer. You might need health care, but the provider is not being paid by you so the provider’s incentives are to satisfy his customer, his customer is the insurance company, or the government. Neither the insurance company nor the government has your interests nor your needs as their prime motivator. So of the three or four parties involved in any health care transaction, the one to whom it is most immediate and important has the least voice.
There is another fundamental problem with health care, there is too much medicine and not enough health. Too many bureaucrats and too few providers.
The number of doctors allowed to graduate each year is determined not by what the market might need but by a monopoly combine of accrediting agencies under the auspices of the AMA. The job of the AMA is to guarantee that there is not a market clearing supply of doctors. A market clearing supply of doctors would mean that there might be actual price competition among doctors, since any competition would lower the incomes of existing doctors, competition is to be discouraged. So too few doctors, don’t believe it? Tell me how long you get to stay in the waiting room waiting because there are not enough doctors to handle the flux of patients.
There is a problem with health care in this country.
Doctor’s are not allowed to discount for cash, but must accept the discount demanded by health insurance providers. Don’t believe me? An annual checkup visit is billed at $180 to the carriers, the carriers pay $55 and the doctors accept that as payment in full. So go visit your doctor and offer him $55 in fiat money ( Federal Reserve Notes ) for a checkup, hell offer him $70 an easy 28% profit over what he will get from an insurance carrier. He has to refuse.
There is a problem with health care in this country.
Healthy folks, young folks, working poor folks, folks one payment from dispossession, folks facing 20% to 40% inflation in their weekly food and fuel costs do not have the money to be fleeced from them to pay for more mandatory insurance premiums.
There is a health care problem in this country.
Cialis, Viagra, Enzyte, Restless leg syndrome, dry eye disease, bladder control symptom, burning esophagus syndrome, tossing and turning at night; for every itch there is a pill,
the pill does not cure the itch; the pill must be taken for the rest of your life so that the itch doesn’t come back.

TeakwoodKite

I would also wonder why there is a two year waiting list at the local JC for nursing. You’d think the “market” would address this.

CK

The competitive market might, but nursing is also an accreditation based career. The nursing classes are 100% full and have a two year wait, why should the accredited provider spend a dime to provide more now when he knows he has no accredited competition now or in the forseeable future. As a protected monopolist your local JC nursing program is behaving just as basic theory says he will.
CK

Follow on comment, nursing is a visibly unionized profession, unions seldom work to invite more workers into their industry.
Doctors have a union also but it is called an association. The AMA and the nurse’s union have no incentive to see more competitive bodies enter their professions. For nurses the wages are already less than wonderful more nurses means even lower incomes. Not what one wants in any economy but most especially not what one wants going into a depression.

simon

Nurses are incredibly overworked, and would welcome the help, at least according to the ones I know.

Weird, that perspective.

I wonder what makes a man think like that, so out of touch with reality?

http://www.scdp.org/ peg

(i’m a retired nurse -
since 1999.)

there is a serious shortage of nursing instructors…

U.S. faces nursing teacher shortage

News on the shortage

that’s why it’s difficult to get INTO nursing school.

no longer are people trying to recruit me to work in their hospitals, they are now trying to get me to teach.

CK

So enjoy the increased demand for your services, it should translate into a higher income for a while. Although I do believe that the nursing shortage in California is being handled the same way they handled their public school teacher shortage. Imported teachers and nurses from the Phillipines, work cheaper and since they are not on a citizenship track they are easy to keep under the thumb.

Fred C. Dobbs

I had a piece of non-elective plastic surgery performed in Miami in 1989. Fortunately the Doctor spoke Spanish fluently. I have pretty good Field Hand Spanish. I was under a heavy local, but here was the line-up of the nurses:

1 Cuban-American
1 Dominican Republic citizen
1 Filipina nursing student
2 “Observers” (I don’t know the medical term) from Honduras.

Not a “Nancy,” or, “Sally,” in the bunch.

I suspect that the training programs for RN’s find these motivated non-US types more malleable and trainable than your average “Tiffany,” “Amber,” and “Destiny” presently coming out of the US education systems.
anna shame

i don’t think nurses are having such a great time, or teachers. I know most professionals would prefer to work in a fully staffed hospital (or school) over a few extra bucks. We’ve had a profound failure in leadership and it’s clear to me that Hillary, maybe because she’s done so much to help sick kids, cares enough about it to make it a priority. She’ll put nursing schools into inner city neighborhoods, it’s part of her economic plan. She’ll recruit retired doctors and nurses to teach and to train teachers. She fully understands that some of the problem if not most is leadership, having professionals and experts who know how to do and know how to lead and hold others accountable. It takes wisdom and patience, and the desire to do something that will matter, isn’t just some ‘idea of the minute.’ It’s so small to think that someone who goes into nursing or teaching doesn’t care about the quality of care or the quality of their work lives, and it’s quite wrong.

CK

Most inner city neighbourhoods are full of buildings and people and communities and such, who will she dispossess from what to where to replace what is there with her nursing schools?
How exactly will she recruit the retired doctors and nurses to teach in these inner city nursing schools? Offer them more money to teach? Where will that money come from?
What incentives does she offer to a doctor who has retired after 30 or so years with a very comfortable life and the time to relax and enjoy the fruits of his committment to the healing profession?
Why would anyone who has spent their life dealing with the headaches and heartaches of providing care and then fighting the insurance companies to be recompensed want to be recruited to do it all over again.
I have been reading recently about the “crisis of obesity” among american children. One of the things I read was that High Fructose Corn Syrup messes about with the bodies information transfer paths and the body fails to realize that it is full/sated. The reason HFCS is so prevalent in american foodstuffs is that America has a high tariff on imported sugar and america does not of iself produce enough sugar to meet the demands. So sugar which does not interfere with the bodies information transfer networks is replaced with HFCS. Now if Hillary wants to remove the tariffs on imported sugar, that would do more to cure this latest epidemic than any insurance company based bureaucratic codswallop.
There is a demand for sweetness, HFCS supplies sweetness with obesity. Sugar supplies sweetness with other issues.
Nurses and doctors may care deeply about the quality of their work lives but they do not control the quality. Management controls the staffing. Management and the union if there is one control the wages. Care all one wants if they have no control then their caring is meaningless. The same goes for the quality of care they are allowed to provide. Every minute of care, every aspirin, every bed pan is allocated, budgeted and paid for by someone NOT the patient. The recipient of the care is NOT the paying customer.
An acquaintence of mine needed quad bypass last year. To have it done in the USA privately would have cost him a bit over $100,000. He flew to India, had the surgery, stayed in first class accomodations during his recovery ( which was not a minimal stay as the US guidelines would have allowed) and flew back home. Total cost $45,000. He is enjoying better health than he has had for the last 5 years and enjoying that $55,000 he didn’t have to piss away too.
One of my competitors needed extensive oral surgery and bridge work. He took a Mexican vacation and got all the work done for 1/3 what he was quoted to have it done here. And he wrote the trip off his taxes as he did some profitable buying while he was there.

Surge07

If universal health care is to be a benefit for all, Hillary’s plan is not the answer; nor is Obama’s.

The flaw in both is that they are primarily employment-based plans. Why should access to healthcare depend on employment status? That model is broken.

Universal healthcare is not universal unless some level care is available to all.

Payroll deduction may be a means of collecting healthcare payments, but healthcare plans should not be selected by employers for their employees.

gqmartinez

Seriously, man, have you bothered to read Hillary’s plan? Hillary’s plan is definitely not dependent on employment status. Nor are plans limited to what employers offer their employees. One can buy into any of the plans offered to members of congress or a medicare-like plan, independent of employment.

Sorry if I seem rude, but your post is embarassing. Read up a little more on Hillary’s plan.

http://groundedinreality.blogspot.com Bruce

Hillary’s plan may “provide” health care for everyone but it is not what we traditionally refer to as Universal Health Care. Forcing people to purchase health care from private insurers will definitely make sure everyone is covered, but unless those companies are tightly and highly regulated, your just forcing people to pay expensive premiums for coverage they can’t afford in the first place. Yes, I know, tax credits will help with this. Problem is, you don’t get the tax credits till next year and I’m guessing that the tax credits will not keep up with the rising cost of health insurance.

The only real Universal Health Care plan is to have a central government managed health care insurance plan in which everybody contributes via a progressive tax scheme. Neither Obama or Hillary are proposing any such plan. Maybe it is not politically feasible at this time. That’s fine. But let’s not kid ourselves that this is a Universal Health Care plan.
Surge07

Let’s not confuse insurance, which is for unlikely events, such a setting a broken arm, and healthcare, which is a service icluding wellness, preventive medicine and early detection and treatment.

Ongoing service is inconsistent with insurance against risk.

CK

Unlikely for any given individual but statistically predictable across large groups.
With fire insurance comes the moral hazard of arson for profit. With health insurance comes other moral hazards. With arson for profit comes the new incentive of background checks and credit checks to guard against insuring the fraud inclined. With the moral hazards for health insurance comes an even more invasive set of checks. Luckily we are moving into a time when it is cheap and easy to do DNA checks and refuse insurance to folks likely to succumb to cancer, or strokes or any other health cost that has a genetic linkage.
If you wish to see what governmentally controlled health insurance will be, look to flood insurance.
Without all of us subsidizing federal flood insurance, there would be much less building in flood zones. Thus much less damage when mother nature pitches a bitch. With flood insurance, there is overbuilding in flood zones but when Ma Nature has a hizzy fit, the insured suddenly find it difficult to get their payouts.
If you wish more of a thing were available than the individuals in the market are willing to purchase, you subsidize the purchase price ( flood insurance, cornahol, cotton, domestically grown sugar ); if you wish there to be less of a good available than the individuals in the market wish to purchase you tax it ( beer, scotch, entrepreneurship, savings, workers ). If you wish to thwart any purchase of a thing that individuals would purchase, you use guns and slavery to make it illegal ( maryjane, nosecandy, automatic weapons, body armour for civilians ). And there you have politics in a nutshell, someone else’s wishes backed up with theft, force and slavery are enforced on you. The brilliance of democracy is that your wishes can be enforced on others if you just get enough votes to take control of the machinery of theft, monopoly on violence and officially sanctioned slavery.

Fred C. Dobbs

Bingo!

simon

The system is broken and must be fixed.

You either deal with the problem, or others work around you.

norrismorris

What a convoluted bunch of detached reasons that have no relation to obtaining lower cost affordable health insurance that is totally within possibilities.

We are compelled to buy Car Insurance. We are compelled to have driver’s licenses and many other kinds of mandatory licenses. We would only benefit by a healthcare plan that offers coverage to those who wnat it, and Hillary’s program allows anyone to keep the Insurance they have if they wish to.

Can you imagine a physician without Insurance?

There is nothing undemocratic about enforcing laws and mandates that protect the public for the greater good.

The insuarance companies in Louisianna and Florida screwed over the public. We spend billions a day on a war without end that has no future for America. Government is not a for profit business. It was constructed by the founders to protect and serve the people.

The comlpicated write offs and offshore tax corruption breaks coupled with billion dollar overcharges and claims refusals on all insurance and reinsurance companies is well known.

We need to spend money on real priorities such as healthcare, and we need to hold everyone accoun table for the rising costs that escalate unnecessarily. Accountability has not applied to the obscene profits of the Insurance Industry, or to standards sorely needed to enforce that valid claims payments be made.

CK

Will Hillary’s plan allow me to remain voluntarily without health insurance that I neither need nor want? Will Hillary’s plan require me to garnish my wages if I don’t choose to choose any insurance?
Will there be the requisite uniformed government enforcers with big guns brought to bear if I choose to be health uninsured, as they are now brought to bear if I choose not to have auto insurance or a driver’s license?
By not having health insurance from companies based in florida or Louisiana or any other state I have avoided being screwed over, since I did not get screwed over by them I should instead be forced to be screwed over by health insurance companies based in New York or Ct or Illinois instead?
As an individual, and as a citizen, I need to save money, live a productive life to support my family, make choices for myself about my health, and not interfere with the way other folks make choices. My real priority is not someone else’s health nor is their priority my health. I am certain however that those who wish to hold others accountable have at least one hand holding a gun and the other holding shackles.

Marjorie

I believe Hillary’s plan has provisions for wellness and preventative care. My daughter is a nurse, now in graduate school and planning to practice wellness and preventative care. Given the advanced medical technology and its accompanying skyrocketing costs as well as costs of plain old medical care, the practice of wellness and preventative care are becoming increasingly important.

norrismorris

Because my partner has home health care and is visited by 2 RN’s every week [for over 3 years], I believe I have a fairly good take on healthcare as it is and as it could be.

First, total Uiversal Healthcare in the manner of social security or medicare is not going to be possible now. Could be eventually after a Hillary plan is enacted.

We were all screwed by Ted Kenndedy and democrat Billy Tauzin [who subsequently went to Drug co for 3 million yrly]. Teddy claims he actually believed first vote which would have been a break for drug benefits in Meducare RX Plan D.

He was not on the floor when after 3 votes [unheard of] on Senate floor, Delay and Hastert threatened, cajoled, paid off, and put through the meaningless program I pay for but don’t benefit much from if at all. The horrible Medicare RX with the Donut Hole.

Hillary’s healthcare offers the most to the most. It isn’t perfect, But Obama’s is half the budget allottment and throws 15 million or more to conventional insurance, or no preventative efforts gained by being insured. He has twisted and confused the issues to favor his insurance giveaway.

I have asked all of the many nurses that have been in my home, and the supervisors of the services involved, and all with NO EXCEPTIONS endorse HILLARY’s plan as SUPERIOR.

Obama is skewing the issue that is weakest in his plan and his flim flam explanations are confusing to those who are fuzzy on this kind of issue full of details.

I have been filing healthinsurance claims as part of my life as a business owner for myself and staff 30 years. I have fought my way through the nightmare of insurance claims that are unpaid with every lousy excuse the companies can come up with.

I know that a valid claim can eventually be paid providing you understand the details, and provide them. And fight, and file, and fight and file, again and again. And write to State commissioners, and continue to file. It takes persistence and most of us cannot do this and Insurance companies know this.

Nurses are particularly aware of these outrages and have an extremely good handle of the perils inherent in Obama’s plan. They understand its limits.

It insures that really further efforts after a good Hillary plan can assure success for even more improvement. That is why Hillary Has the Nurse’s Union behind her in New York and elsewhere.

http://OUTRAGEDBUTNOTSURPRISED bama_barrron

health care in america needs to be viewed as a right not a privelege. ergo, it can not be associated with profit making. cost contaiments are ok as long as they are truly universal. the problem with both the present proposals, IMHO, is that still reinforce the old way of thinking. that being said, i would rather see hillary’s plan come to fruitation cause it would push us closer to changing our national thinking.

as an aside, the argument that obama is a mallable individual leaves me somewhat confused. there is not doubt in my mind he would give away too much to the conservatives yet i dont see him being as willing to change when it comes to progressive issues and concerns. this is one of the main reasons i would only very reluctantly vote for him if he gets the nomination. i really dont think he feels the same committment to represent the left as he would as he so gleefully reaches across the aisle to the right. he would make ol bubba look like a damn liberal!

simon

health care in america needs to be viewed as a right not a privelege.

Ultimately, yes, it does, even though the urgency is not understood by those who think wars in the middle east can be easliy manipulated.

Without strict regulation of costs, in the end, health care will collapse, it is already. NOT providing health care, as a right, is simply to postpone the inevitable, until is is recognized as a public utility, we’re fucked.

And profit is acceptable, the goal isn’t to eliminate competition, the goal is to enable Americans to breathe, again, while keeping greed under control.

Clinton gets it, her understanding of the issue is superior to any other candidate.

Too bad about the absent vote on FISA, she’s highly intelligent, why isn’t she protecting the Constitution, first and foremost?

Without the Constitutional protections, why bother, it all springs from there…
CK

Health care in America can also be looked upon as someone else’s right to pillage your wallet for the priviledge of subsidizing their self destructive behaviour. Rights are what you can command.
Supposedly in America you have the right to life.
Unless your ass is needed as a conscript slave.
And don’t think that having a right to your own life means that you are allowed to choose to end your own life at a time and in a manner of your own choosing.
You have the right to liberty.
Unless that liberty involves loving another of the same sex, smoking the oldest domesticated plant, refusing to answer any question some goon in a taxpayer supplied uniform decides to ask you, choosing to medicate yourself instead of popping BigPharmas pills. Liberty dissapears quickly.
You have a right to attempt to pursue your definition of happiness. As long as your definition is politically correct, religiously codified and approved by some bureaucrat somewhere.
Health care is a right as long as someone else pays for it, subsidizes it, and provides it. Now once we have health care as a natural right, can we have Lambourghinis as a natural right for all also? Why should Lambos be a priviledge? We all have to travel, commute from our mcmansions in the exurbs to our delightful cubicles in some rat warren, why should we have to do it in some rattletrap GM confection or some Fix Or Repair Daily hunk o plastic. Lambos should not be a prviledge anymore than health care should be.

http://OUTRAGEDBUTNOTSURPRISED bama_barrron

your comment:

And don’t think that having a right to your own life means that you are allowed to choose to end your own life at a time and in a manner of your own choosing.

does not recognize that as an oregonian i have the right to choose death with dignity. i mean, really, isnt there always an exception to every hard and fast declaration?

CK

Yes you as a citizen of Oregon have that right.
You as a citizen of the USA do NOT have that right.
A citizen of California had the right to medical marijuana. As a citizen of the USA he does not have that right.
When it comes to centralized power, there are only situations where the power has not yet been applied.

norrismorris

Obama will absolutely cave very cleverly as he has already proven if you read the NY Times last week in their long article about his performance regarding the nuclear leakage of one of his Donors, Exelon, the Illinois based nuclear energy providers that are one of the largest in U.S.

After helping craft a bill that would curtail leakages and provide more safety,[and getting credtit for this] he finally changed it at the end to suit GOP changes that fit their plans.

Exelon, according to The New York Times reported that Obama has taken $227,000. from Exelon’s main lobbyist and is on good terms with Exelon.

The Times claim was that his words did not match his actions regarding the nuclear leak in Illinois that contaminated a good deal of the drinking water and underground, etc.

justsomeone

Hillary’s War on the Uninsured doesn’t cut it. (a) the vast majority of very low income single Moms & kids are already on medicaid, as are all indigents (b) self employed affluent people who don’t already have insurance will NOT be able to “game” the system, they’ll just bite the bullet & pay cash, they’re not about to surrender their credit ratings (c) mandating that low income folks purchase insurance will only result in them buying high deductable policies, with numerous disclaimers i.e. “house insurance” as Obama lables it. Universal health care is single payer/not for profit, labeling anything short of that “Universal” is the old Republican trick like calling pollution trading credits “Blue Skies”
justsomeone

Hillary’s plan IS Mitt Romney’s plan. A quick look at Massachusetts’ plan shows the clinks in the system
justsomeone

Insurance Companies only want to make money, in order to do that they have to manage risk, why do you want the for profits in the ratio? Blue Cross Blue Shield usta be non profit & covered damn near everything & then some clown figured out how to get rich. Take the profit out of the ratio. The hell with Big Pharma, the AMA & the rest of them if health care is a right. Do you expect to make a profit from the public schools? k-12 is a right.
justsomeone

EXCUSE me, see I’m a social liberal/fiscal conservative not a “progressive”. I want Universal Health Care NOT Universal Health Insurance.
justsomeone

Check out Argentina’s health care system, they even think tummy tucks & nose jobs are rights

CK

Do they cover tattoos also? Or do they just cover politically correct body mods?

justsomeone

CK, T & A is not P.C. & I know nada ’bout tats
bjobotts

What happened to the NOT FOR PROFIT single payer plan. Why do you keep inviting the profiteers into our health care system. they will always find ways to deny treatment etc in order to increase profits. Medicare and Medicaid is already a proven system and could include the entire country without all the profiteering. Why are you so afraid to take them on and kick them out. Helathcare is a right not a privilege. People should not be allowed to profiteer from our health care.
Also education used to be free before Reagan. Stop trying to make it more affordable and make it free for those who want it. Get rid of the money party…they are destroying our country. When will you start listening?
justsomeone

bjobotts, We’re kinda in agreement, except you think some things are “free”. There’s no free lunch, no free education & sure as hell no free health care. Someone is paying for all of it. Alot of indivudals own insurance stock, alot of pension plans invested in it as well…42% of people in this country pay no federal tax & the 58% that pay all the taxes don’t want to pay more & other than the top tier (the 5%ers) can’t afford to pay much more. This is really complicated stuff & in that sense I am not without some sympathy for HRC’s last ditch plan, but I still don’t like it & I won’t support it.
http://www.americanconsultantsrx.net Healthcare Assistance

Great websites viewpoints.