I guess I have to start worry for whom to vote – for Olmert, Netaniahu or Barak :

The thing is, his family background is not
“easily viewable” on his website. As a matter of fact, there is no information about his family background except the statement that he ivied his formative years in El Salvador.

In various interviews he has claimed that he is an “immigrant” and that he does not come from a monied family. He also claimed that he enlisted because he needed funds for college. The truths are far from these assertions. I recommend that you check out the links provided in my previous post.

I’ll repeat — Markos’ intentions have been to fracture and divide the Democratic party. This may have just been an arrogant attempt to create the party in the image he most desired, or it may be something more sinister. Either way, like I said, it explains why The Daily Kos has now become the hall of shame for the Democratic party.

Kos has always revealed that he was a Reagan Republican, became disillusioned and switched parties. His first printed article in Newsweek was critical of Reagan.

Also, he’s made no secret of his less than stellar opinion of the Clintons.

His family background is easily viewable in the bio on his website. If anything, it highlights his choice to serve in the military as very patriotic.

I have disagreed with a lot of what Kos himself writes in front page diaries. (Whereas I have tremendous respect for the writing of MeteorBlades, DarkSyde, and nyceve among others.) And I have left dailyKos for it’s invasion by empty-headed supporters of Obama.

However, I see this as a failure that’s in the nature of the website community. Kos’ great accomplishment was in attracting good writers and creating/enhancing the community forum software that allowed you and me to participate there. However, we are all seeing first hand the novel nature of this experiment has some flaws. How to administrate vs. self-police the site?

Also, I observe that Kos has lost focus on what he says is the central tenet of the site – to elect Democrats. By actively choosing a side so early and allowing mob witch-hunts, he’s losing credibility and readers. I think he will come to regret this blind spot.

“Even today most nice, liberal, and even some “progressive” Americans insist that 1) the sanctions were not imposed by the United States, but by the U.N. (and if true that would make committing genocide on the Iraqi people OK?), despite the fact that it was mainly the U.S. that was blocking imports of items critical for maintaining basic humanitarian conditions, and only the U.S. that prevented a lifting of the sanctions and import embargo.”

I neglected to add 2) it was Saddam Hussein, not the United States or the U.N. that starved the Iraqi people, which is a patently false claim.

Well, even Mother Teresa was no Mother Teresa!

“yes [Bill Clinton] was actively looking for a causus belli to take out SH.”

In fact, Bill Clinton (and his predecessor George H.W. Bush) thought that if they strangled, starved, and brutalized the Iraqi people enough, THEY would help to take out Saddam Hussein. Ironically enough, the Israelis have been trying that tactic, and failing, for decades, but neither the Israelis nor the Americans have figured out yet that it generally produces the opposite results.

Bill Clinton also, by the way, manipulated the (nominally) U.N. weapons inspection regime in an attempt to create a casus belli, which manipulation resulted in so-called “Operation Desert Fox” (I love how they give their filthy, bloody military killing-and-destruction sprees such cute and romantic names!).

“I don’t think most of the public was aware of some of the devistating effects of our Iraq policy until late in his administration.”

I don’t think most of the American public was aware even after his administration ended, despite the tireless efforts of people like former U.N. Humanitarian Coordinators Denis Halliday and Hans von Sponek (both of whom resigned in protest), former Chief Weapons inspector Scott Ritter, the amazing Rani Masri, and hundreds – perhaps thousands – of us throughout this country who tried for years to bring it to public attention.

“I just don’t think the majority of Americans were aware of the extent of damage done, nor are they probably aware now. Or don’t care.”

All of the above is the most likely. Even today most nice, liberal, and even some “progressive” Americans insist that 1) the sanctions were not imposed by the United States, but by the U.N. (and if true that would make committing genocide on the Iraqi people OK?), despite the fact that it was mainly the U.S. that was blocking imports of items critical for maintaining basic humanitarian conditions, and only the U.S. that prevented a lifting of the sanctions and import embargo.

“But I take it that that’s your point. Either we didn’t know or didn’t care and neither did she.”

Exactly. Only she knew, and yet she fully and explicitly supported the policy.

“It bothers me a lot.”

Glad to hear it!

“What would she have done if she had been President instead of Bill. Would she have found a way to lift the embargo?”

Not on your life! She openly supported it, and her record as Senator plus her statements as a candidate make it clear that she would find such things perfectly appropriate.

“Halt the bombing raids?”

Bill Clinton ordered the bombing raids, and she was completely supportive of them. So, what do YOU think?

“Given the rabidity of the Congressional Republicans at the time, would she have been allowed to?”

Congress did not order the bombing raids, that was Bill Clinton’s choice. Ditto the sanctions and import embargos.

“You must be aware that the America we both live in will not accept a woman in the WH that does not have the requisite “balls” to use the military to defend what they see as treats to America.”

The United States military has not been used in a defensive capacity for decades. And so, being a woman, she will be compelled to gratuitously attack other countries than a man would be? Looks like a great argument against voting for her!

“I am torn between the two.”

I’m not. I don’t want either one of them.

“I voted for HC in the IL primary, knowing that she wouldn’t take the state.”

I voted for Edwards in the primary, knowing he had withdrawn. :}
“I voted for her because of her superior health care plan. I don’t much like it but it is better than his.”

A rational decision, which I do respect.

“My stomach is in knots and I’m seriously thinking of going on Xanax to help with the anxiety.”

I am seriously thinking of leaving the country, as are quite a few people I know. One of my colleagues bought an apartment in Canada last year, “just in case”.

“Worse, my Grandson keeps walking in on me when I’m screaming at my TV. He says “seriously Grandma, you need to not watch this stuff so much”. Maybe he’s right.”

More people need to become informed at a much deeper level, and then to do something about it. As I said on another thread, neither Hillary nor Obama is going to lead you out of the darkness. The problems are systemic and go back way before Bush, and they cross party lines.

He is a complete fraud — and a disturbing one at that. This is the guy who said nearly two years ago that Hillary Clinton is unelectable because she had a “Bill Clinton problem.” No surprise there as Markos worked on Republican Henry Hyde’s election campaign — you know, the guy who pushed for Bill Clinton’s impeachment.

It seems that Marko’s objective has always been to fracture and divide the Democratic party and he’s done a hell of a job of it. But then, what do you expect from a Reagan/Bush supporter whose family’s business makes at least 5 million dollars of foreign investments in El Salvador.

See: http://truth-about-kos.blogspot.com/2007/07/markos-moulitsas-family-and-pollution.html

Once people find out the truths about Markos shady background — and the lies that he presents about himself — it’s easy to understand why his site has become a hall of shame for the Democratic party.

To read about Markos’ curiously odd background see here:

http://truth-about-kos.blogspot.com/

I have voted the Democratic ticket for the past 30 years. Back in 2004, I did not really care for Kerry that much but I did work locally to get him elected and also contributed to his campaign.

I am a Clinton supporter and up until a few weeks ago decided that if Obama won the nomination that I would hold my nose and vote for him in the GE. That’s changed now. If someone had said to me six months ago that I would NOT vote for a Democrat for President in 2008, I would have thought they were crazy.

Like Marge, I cannot in good conscience vote for this guy after what’s transpired over the past two months. Obama has split this party apart and what’s worse is he’s so self absorbed he does not even realize that he needs the Clinton supporters to win the GE.

Yes, I asked an Obama supporter yesterday if he will hold the same attitude about the superdelegates if Clinton wins more un-super delegates than she. I have yet to receive a response.

I was never a great fan of Hillary Clinton, though I hated how she was treated by the vast right wing conspiracy. But I have become a rabid supporter now that I have seen so clearly how many so-called progressives, including an abundance of white males, have bought in so completely to that conspiracy that they actually believe many of the lies.

A group of us will be hitting the Democratic Underground state forums tomorrow. Please join us if you can. Links are below.

Wisconsin (the vote Tuesday, maybe there are a few undecideds who might be persuaded to vote for Clinton.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=186

Ohio
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&foru
m=172

Pennsylvania
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&foru
m=175

Texas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&foru
m=180

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

She is not Mother Teresa

As a matter of fact Mother Teresa was a supporter of crooks and dictators (like Baby Doc) if they gave her money, which she spend on convents, not on helping the poor.

But I guess it was one more thing that the majority of Americans are not aware of

she is smart and competent

Yes, she would bomb Iran (or Syria, or Russia or…) much smater than Bush bombed Iraq. Big comfort for Iranians

There have been only 2 Democrats in the White House in the last 40 years. Carter for 4 and Bill Clinton for 8. Bill sure are hell wasn’t anywhere near perfect and made some bad moves, and I am not talking about the whole damn Lewinsky b.s. which should be between him and his wife, but about policy decisions I did not agree with. Still considering how the Republicans did everything within their power to bring his administration down he still left office with about a 60% approval rating. In other words a successful presidency.

So why would any Democrat denigrate that? I cannot now, in good conscience vote for a man I consider a weasel. I am an Independent so I don’t vote by a party line anyway, although I usually do vote for the Democrat in the race. I disliked Kerry intensely and voted for as a vote against Bush. I’m not voting for Obama. I can’t.

Word.

I used to read Kos and Americablog, and TPM until I slowly awakened to the misogyny (unintended, I’m sure, and unnoticed by them as they are too invested in their own narrative to deviate with honest self-reflection at this point). Coupled with the weird circular thinking about Obama in the last few weeks, and I was creeped out.

Then something Aravosis wrote about Hillary was so shockingly Limbauesque that made me so angry I went over to Clinton’s site and donated $100.

Jarhead’s right. The “progressives” have destroyed an able candidate using wingnuttia’s dirty tools. I doubt they’ll see the irony, though.