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Imagine If This Were Your Daughter:

By SusanUnPC on February 16, 2008 at 12:28 PM in Barack Obama, Chelsea Clinton, David Shuster, Health Care, Hillary Clinton, MSNBC, Sexism

From “Chelsea Clinton Talks Policy in Obama Territory,” New York Times, February 16, 2008:

Ms. Clinton has been confronted with signs bearing messages like “America deserves better than aristocracy” and “Got Pimp?” a reference to a recent remark by a now-suspended MSNBC host who claimed that Mrs. Clinton was exploiting her daughter.

To those of us who dare oppose Barack Obama, it’s not a surprise, sadly. The incredibly nasty, immature attacks against us are a daily occurrence, all day every day. But this is despicable behavior towards a very bright young, highly knowledgeable woman who is campaigning her heart out for her mother.

For more background on the source of the PIMP remarks — which emanated from the nasty mouth of David Schuster on MSNBC, who was suspended for two weeks (he deserves more punishment) — see these articles here:

chelsea600-s.jpg
Photo caption: “Chelsea Clinton talking to supporters of her mother, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, on Feb. 8 at Bowdoin College.”

What even more remarkable in the article is just how very bright, and detailed in her knowledge of policy, the young Chelsea Clinton is:

[She blitzes] her targets with policy details. In a single hour of responding to questions at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire on Tuesday, Ms. Clinton talked about Medicare Part D, the distinction between the chronically and occasionally uninsured, health care premium caps, Pell grant allowance maximums, income contingency repayment programs for financial aid, sugar-based ethanol and carbon sequestration. That is not counting her detours into Romanian reproductive policy and the design of the internal combustion engine.

“It was a little over my head,” admitted Stephanie Biese, the founder of the Students for Hillary chapter on the Madison campus, about an exchange Ms. Clinton had with another attendee about nuclear base loads.

About the sexism:

But a furious, provocative essay that Ms. Clinton mass-blasted to her friends and acquaintances on Feb. 4 provides clues. She wrote that she did not agree with everything the essay’s author, Robin Morgan, a former editor of Ms. Magazine, said. (Ms. Morgan argues that Mrs. Clinton has faced not only a sexist double standard but also “sociopathic woman-hating.”)

But until jeering men insulted her mother in New Hampshire and the news media made light of it, Ms. Clinton wrote, “I confess I didn’t entirely get ‘it.’ ”

Read all of today’s NYT article, “Chelsea Clinton Talks Policy in Obama Territory.”

Here’s the link to Robin Morgan’s now famous essay: “Goodbye to All That #2.”

And I wrote about Morgan’s essay, and other women’s (including Erica Jong), here: “For All the SUPER Women.” (I confess I was truly disappointed that this article didn’t get more attention, particularly from women. It’s so important — take it from someone who’s old enough to remember just how nasty sexism once was, and remains (even though the MSM acts like it’s yesterday’s news).

And here’s Big Tent Democrat at TalkLeft blog — who I happen to know is a male and (I’m 90% sure) a Chicagoan at that — but he’s one of the rare bloggers who’s unafraid to post about what he truly thinks, and let the chips fall where they may. I even think he’s leaning to Obama, but that doesn’t stop him from being a “truthteller.” Good for him!

I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she’s feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal. – Barack Obama, February 15, 2008

In a campaign marked by news coverage unrelenting in its sexism and misogyny, especially from NBC, the last thing we can afford is sexism from the frontrunning candidate. Barack Obama needs to apologize for this remark.

From Robin Morgan:

—an era when parts of the populace feel so disaffected by politics that a comparative lack of knowledge, experience, and skill is actually seen as attractive, when celebrity-culture mania now infects our elections so that it’s “cooler” to glow with marquee charisma than to understand the vast global complexities of power on a nuclear, wounded planet.

—the notion that it’s fun to elect a handsome, cocky president who feels he can learn on the job, goodbye to George W. Bush and the destruction brought by his inexperience, ignorance, and arrogance.  Goodbye to the accusation that HRC acts “entitled” when she’s worked intensely at everything she’s done—including being a nose-to-the-grindstone, first-rate senator from my state.

Goodbye to her being exploited as a Rorschach test by women who reduce her to a blank screen on which they project their own fears, failures, fantasies.  

Goodbye to the phrase “polarizing figure” to describe someone who embodies the transitions women have made in the last century and are poised to make in this one. It was the women’s movement that quipped, “We are becoming the men we wanted to marry.” She heard us, and she has. 

Goodbye to some women letting history pass by while wringing their hands, because Hillary isn’t as “likeable” as they’ve been warned they must be, or because she didn’t leave him, couldn’t “control” him, kept her family together and raised a smart, sane daughter. (Think of the blame if Chelsea had ever acted in the alcoholic, neurotic manner of the Bush twins!) Goodbye to some women pouting because she didn’t bake cookies or she did, sniping because she learned the rules and then bent or broke them. Grow the hell up. She is not running for Ms.-perfect-pure-queen-icon of the feminist movement.  She’s running to be president of the United States.

Goodbye to the shocking American ignorance of our own and other countries’ history. Margaret Thatcher and Golda Meir rose through party ranks and war, positioning themselves as proto-male leaders. Almost all other female heads of government so far have been related to men of power—granddaughters, daughters, sisters, wives, widows: Gandhi, Bandaranike, Bhutto, Aquino, Chamorro, Wazed, Macapagal-Arroyo, Johnson Sirleaf, Bachelet, Kirchner, and more. Even in our “land of opportunity,” it’s mostly the first pathway “in” permitted to women: Representatives Doris Matsui and Mary Bono and Sala Burton; Senator Jean Carnahan . . . far too many to list here. …

Read it all here.

You go, Robin Morgan. And YOU GO, CHELSEA CLINTON!

  • John

    1. I use the example of Chelsea Clinton whenever I hear some jackass tell me that the Clinton marriage is “fake” and “they dont really love eachother.” No couple not in love could have produced such an amazing human being as Chelsea Clinton. I could then proceed to a discussion of the Bush daughters, but I’m not that cruel and won’t stoop to their level.

    2. Obama supporters who engage in this kind of crap are the reason that, if he is the Democratic nominee, I will write in Al Gore for President. Nothing could compel me to vote for this sleazy creep- and certainly not the threats of his deluded, cultist followers.

    • alexei

      I am voting Hillary Clinton.

      • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

        ME TOO!

        (‘course, I was disenfranchised last Saturday when I was in the hospital and couldn’t go to the caucus. Nor could the nurses treating me that day — and they wanted to go badly. Then I thought about all the people in nursing homes, and other hospitals, and rehabilitation facilities, most of whom are regular voters! (particularly the elderly, for whom voting is a patriotic necessity) … ah well, I’ll get another chance in November!)

    • S. Markom

      You may not have to write him in.

    • shirin

      1. Who cares whether they are in love with each other? What business is that of anyone’s?

      2. Parents do not have to be in love with or even committed to each other to raise fine children. They just need to be committed to the children, and have a modicum of common sense.

  • simon

    Chelsea Clinton is as elegant, and as brilliant a young woman, a young person, as one can find.

    One look at her, and you think something must be very very right, despite all that is thrown at Bill and Hillary, to have turned out SUCH a distinguished, brilliant, perceptive daughter.

    • S. Markom

      Brilliant – definately.

      In terms of personality she is a lot like her mother. She is not exactly a shrinking violet. She is very demanding and a very tough young woman.

      I would not be surprised if she just laughed at Shuster’s stupidity as well as that idiot with the sign.

  • Banquo’s Ghost

    I’d like to briefly point out that, to date, numerous ant-Bush commentators, journalists, and web sites – INCLUDING THIS ONE – have gone after Bush’s daughters much the same way as Chelsea is now “fair game”. The truth is that when you stick your family members out into the midst of a national election, you are signing them up for attack. This is as true for Chelsea as it is for Jenna.

    This “complaint” concerning Chelsea Clinton is no more than throwing stones in a glass house.

    Besides, don’t cry for her. She is making over 100K/year before the age of 25 as a professional influence peddler purely because of who her father and mother are. She’s not feeling any pain whatsoever and will without a doubt be sunbathing in St. Tropez while earning a bigger income than almost anyone in just a matter of months.

    • John

      Please cite your sources that show that Hillary fans have attacked the Bush daughters. I’ll wait here, but I won’t hold my breath, because I don’t want to die just yet.

      When the Bush daughters HAVE been criticized, its been for doing things like BREAKING THE LAW. How does this equate with the attacks on Chelsea?

      Oh, but Chelsea will be making a lot of money, so it’s ok to suggest that she’s a prostitute for her mom? That makes sense to you, does it?

      • Banquo’s Ghost

        Have you actually been following the web logs and commentary sites for more than the last week? It is not my responsibility to maintain a personal Nexus-Lexus database of all the published commentary and web log posts. If you have managed to miss the attacks on Bush’s daughters, then poor you.

        • John

          Nice dodge. What are the attacks based on? Have they been called “prostitutes” for supporting their dad? Or do you consider criticism for their flaunting of the law “attacks?”

          If you aren’t willing to back up your charges, you shouldn’t make them.

          • shirin

            They have been called lushes, drunks, etc., among other things.

        • TeakWoodKite

          It is not my responsibility ???

          What is your responsibility?

          “used the word “pimping” colloqiually”
          Sorry the meaning of the word does not change.

          From my point of view you seem to have a problem with a young person making a living and getting well paid for it. Why don’t you look back at the reporting of when Chelsea was hired and comments of her employer that she was a very intelligent and motivated person.

          Is that the same as underage drinking etc? Sets a great example and shows respect eh?

          • shirin

            Hey, TWK, this is a tempest in a teapot. And the term “pimp out”, used figuratively as in this instance, does not imply that anyone is a prostitute.

            People need to get over this silly quibble and move on.

            For the record, I don’t think the Clintons are “pimping out” Chelsea. She is an adult who can make her own decisions, and I believe she has made the decision to support her mother’s candidacy. It is hardly inappropriate for an adult child to campaign on behalf of a parent, just as it is for a spouse to campaign on behalf of their marriage partner. Or is Hillary also “pimping out” Bill, and Obama “pimping out” Michele for their campaign?

            The implication of the “pimping out Chelsea” comment, which really meant that the Clintons were using Chelsea, was unjustified, but to pretend that there was any suggestion about prostitution is deeply disingenuous.

            There’s nothing to see here, folks. Move along!

            • TeakWoodKite

              I understand the use of the phase when used in an urban context.

              pretend that there was any suggestion about prostitution is deeply disingenuous.
              We will agree to disagree on this.
              The “pimp out” I object to is the prostitution of the English language, or any other language for that matter.

              It also plays to the stereotyping that impedes any chance for a rational discourse.
              It was a sad episode.

              • Jess Wonderin

                Well taken – the sad part is the attempt to belittle the Clinton effort rather than reporting an intelligent observation – “using Chelsea”, without demeaning the language. “Newscaster” status is a profession and service, not showing just how cool or hip one is. No one reviews Obama speeches with “that Bro sure can deliver a speech” . . . “news” is not MTV

              • shirin

                The phrase was not used in an “urban context” in this case.

                It was a slam at the Clintons, not a comment either on Chelsea’s virtue or her profession.

                As far as I can tell, Chelsea is a fine, well-spoken, intelligent young woman who can, and I daresay has, made her own choices whether and how she will participate in her mother’s campaign.

                Pretending that anyone was suggesting that Chelsea is a prostitute in the literal sense is disingenuous and silly.

                • TeakWoodKite

                  Sorry Shirin, while I agree it was not the literal, it was most definately used in the urban vernacular. I agree Chelsea can manage quite well for herself. I take personal offense at the “whoring” that goes on in the media and this is no different.

                  Lets just disagree :) and I will go “PIMP my Ride” instead of seeing a trained professional not think before he speaks.

                  If I “pimp out” my daughter , that means I am refering to her as a whore; in what ever light it is cast. The use of the term came from the hip/hop world and IS urban.

          • shirin

            PS It is also disingenuous to pretend that the “pimp out” remark was a slam at Chelsea when it clearly wasn’t aimed at her at all, but at the Clintons.

            It would be far more on point, and therefore far more effective to confront it based on what the clear intention actually was than to base one’s arguments on what the intention was not.

        • Cee

          Banquo,

          I’ve said that Chelsea and the twins should be in Iraq. Is that an attack?

          • Mike Howell

            Cee –

            In what capacity? It wouldn’t be fair to put them or anyone else in a black hole prison. If you meant that they should fight in their Dad’s trumped up war – I agree.

      • Banquo’s Ghost

        He used the word “pimping” colloqiually, the response from the Clintons was hideously overblown, and had a lot more to to for retribution against a TV network that wasn’t supporting them (this is called “dirty pool” or “flak”), and the man has paid with his job.

        Would you please get over yourself already.

        And I don’t recall suggesting anyone was a prostitute or apologizing for such. You really are being histrionic. Please DO hold your breath in order to cure your own hyperventilation. Calm down. Get a grip on yourself.

        • Jess Wonderin

          Bullshit . . . shall we reduce ourselves to the “colloquially” in referring to Obama or his relationship with Rezko or his wife?

          Seems the Presidential offspring present different role models – personally I hope mine assimilate Chelsea’s accomplishments.

          • Mike Howell

            Jess Wonderin –

            On MSNBC one is only allowed to read crap propagated by the Obama machine and its head cheerleader – “Chris I got a thrill down my leg Matthews”!

            I actually heard that idiot Keith Oldermann rant on about how the only reason to go along with FISA is to get at who’s behind an e-mail that says Obama is Muslim!

        • Ron Cowin

          If you want to apologize for the bastardization of the English Language, go ahead. But to me a pimp is a pimp is a pimp. And what would the reaction have been if it were used about a member of the Obama family? Would the rage be more justified or satiated with some linguistic mumbo-jumbo? I think not.

          • shirin

            “If you want to apologize for the bastardization of the English Language, go ahead.”

            Hmmmm – seems to me that YOU have just indulged in a bit of the same bastardization you decry.

            “But to me a pimp is a pimp is a pimp.”

            And to me a bastard is a bastard is a bastard.

            But it is irrelevant in this case what the word pimp means to you. What is relevant is what it meant to the speaker in the context in which he used it.

            “And what would the reaction have been if it were used about a member of the Obama family? Would the rage be more justified or satiated with some linguistic mumbo-jumbo? I think not.”

            Hillary and her supporters are not required to have a silly, over-the-top reaction simply because Obama and his supporters react in a silly, over-the-top manner.

        • Fred C. Dobbs

          >>> and had a lot more to to for retribution against a TV network

          Lesson to NBC: Try to hire talking heads who don’t shoot you in the foot with their tongues.

      • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

        What a dodge, as someone else said.

        Further, we’ve never commented about the Bush twins here. I have no interest in commenting on them and their lives. Now, there was a LOT of that at Daily Kos, and it was highly inappropriate. Especially lots of nastiness about the rare reports of their drinking and partying — which is pretty normal college behavior.

        And I must tell you that I watched a couple interviews with Jenna Bush when she came out with her book, and I found her delightful! I watched the Diane Sawyer story when both women went into very dangerous, impoverished areas so Jenna could show Sawyer where she’d been working with poor women and chilldren afflicted with HIV and AIDS. I was very touched by Jenna’s involvement.

        And my daughter and I thought it was so neat that her fiance took her camping in one of our national parks to propose to her. She is a very nice, capable young lady.

        • Ron Cowin

          To set the record straight: I have made some comments concerning the Bush twins when they were personna non grata from Argentina and on the occasion of several more of their exploits, but just privately to some friends on the phone. They were pretty well covered by all the late night talk show comedians. Its not as if it were kept secret. Never heard a word about Chelsea while she was at Stanford. So it seems like she was a good kid who turned into a good young adult. (That is, unless Stanford has its own version of Omerta. What happens in Palo Alto, stays in Paly Alto.)

    • simon

      BG says:

      load of denial, crap, justifying the bashing an innocent

      Bullshit –”well, they did it too,” is not a substitute for a reasoned, rational discussion.

      Your critical reasoning is breathtaking.

      Perhaps, you too, were a brilliant law student of Professor Obama at the University of Chicago, dazzling us with your analysis, I watch “stunned and amazed,” in awe, the spirit of Obama, like the spirit of ’76, hope, a revolution, the rebirth of America, hope, terrorist tricks, covered with chocolate.

      Me though, I borrowed from Chrissie Hynde, Obama, from Hillary Clinton, but I give credit, I don’t plagiarize.

      Do the girls ALWAYS do Obama’s homework?

      No other child of famous parents has had to endure what Chelsea has, the slurs from Limbaugh and McCain, harassment at Stanford, the garbage of the MSNBC wommin haters.

      And despite that, she has thrived.

      Not exactly a group of rocket scientists over there, now, are you?

      • Banquo’s Ghost

        Other than the fact that you are angry at me and wish to insult me or express hostility and contempt towards me, I can’t discern what your actual point is.

        Speaking of “cult-like behavior”, that is. Speaking of Kos’ mindless munchkins, that is.

        • simon

          Other than the fact that you are angry at me and wish to insult me or express hostility and contempt towards me, I can’t discern what your actual point is.

          You don’t understand my point because you aren’t adept at critical reasoning, you’re a VERY concrete thinker, my goodness, CMON.

          My point is:

          you suck.

          Understand that one?

          But you knew that, didnt you?

          See, I’m doing what you try to do in regard to PR, you know you’ve been attacked, but you’re unable to come back with a critical articulation.

          Get it?

          No?

          • simon

            I also made about six cultural references Obama is alluding to, whether deliberately or not, you missed those, too.

            So how much do you really understand, how well educated are you, really?

        • Mike Howell

          Banquo’s Ghost –

          Why do you call them munchkins? Is it because they are a chorus or are they really small maybe? I never went to Kos, so I don’t get some of these inside references.

    • Percy

      Yoiu are obviously very jealous of Chelsea’s obvious knowledge and education. It is also obvious she is paid the money because she is worth it in her contributions to the organization. If she were able to do antyhing because of her parents, why did she bother to go to school? Why is she making only $100?

      You have no substance…let me think…is Obama your man? Just a guess, you have alot in common with him. He launches negative attacks on Hillary of no merit, just like you did on Chelsea.

      Kool Aid … FREE

      • Banquo’s Ghost

        No, I am not jealous of Clinton’s knowledge and education. I have knowledge and education myself.

        I don’t know how this translates into I “have no substance”, and to be honest, the experience I am having with you is the exact same experience that I and others have had in the past with “Daily Kos”.

        If you have something other than dim hostility and anger to express to me, I am pleased to listen, really.

        • John

          You should let some of that education and knowledge leak into your posts sometime.

        • simon

          I don’t know how this translates into I “have no substance”, and to be honest, the experience I am having with you is the exact same experience that I and others have had in the past with “Daily Kos”.

          This is YOUR perception, though, reflecting your abilty to perceive, and sort.

          Every arguemnt you have given boils down to “you do it, too.”

          Why? Why do you make the choices you make?

          You dont know, you abilty to understand your motivations stops at Britney Spears.

          This a psychological block on your part, why?

          Could you be worng about Clinton?

          Why don’t you examine the issue from another point of view, just for fun?

          You’re telling us a lot about YOU, and frankly, you’re saying “I can’t argue their points, they are right, my reaction is purely emotional, irrational, I don’t know why, and if I attack Clinton more, I run the risk of being completely ostracized, looking like a jerk, everything they say about Obamabots, I don’t want that, it’s not safe to do that, here.”

          And you’d be right.

          So you keep trying to deflect the issue, and we know.

  • John

    Here’s more food for thought- Chelsea Clinton is only a few years older than those blathering, star-struck morons on college campuses who are skipping classes for a chance to hear the words of the Messiah Barack and maybe touch the hem of this robe. Only a few years older than the super-entitled twits who scream “YES WE CAN!” on cue and who take instruction on how to Come to Obama.

    What a great job Bill and Hillary did. Who in this country doesn’t hope that they have a kid who grows up to be as amazing as Chelsea Clinton? Instead, many end up with FaceBook, MySpace and IPod junkies and screeching Obama groupies.

    • Banquo’s Ghost

      I understand that you have a profound personal anger at Obama, and anyone who supports him, but did you have a point beyond just venting dumb anger and hostility?

      • John

        Yes but it’s clearly waaaaaayyy beyond your comprehension. Aren’t you neglecting your coloring books?

    • S. Markom

      only a few years older than those blathering, star-struck morons on college campuses

      That is a definate exaggeration. Chelsea is 28 years old and much older and more seasoned than those kids on college campuses.

      Don’t make it like she some innocent shrinking violet. She works for a hedge fund and is ever bit as tough, if not tougher, than her old lady.

  • Mike Howell

    Added to my list of reasons for a Hillary Rodham Clinton wins: to get even for these unwarranted attacks on a darling dignified young lady.

    • Banquo’s Ghost

      An emotional need for revenge and retribution are powerful motivators! See: Willie Horton.

      • simon

        An emotional need for revenge and retribution are powerful motivators! See: Willie Horton.

        Oh, still deflecting, let’s talk about YOU.

        Poor baby, next you will be telling us how Clinton is seeking revenge, and the women is driven with a need to destroy, as retribution for Bill.

        And you look as deluded as Obama, and his black messiah drivel.

        That, and you’re starting to sound like Dick Cheney.

      • Mike Howell

        Banquo’s Ghost –

        True! It did in Dukakis and Wayne Dumond isn’t helping Huckabee either.

    • simon

      Added to my list of reasons for a Hillary Rodham Clinton wins: to get even for these unwarranted attacks on a darling dignified young lady.

      She had to withstand a lot as a child, and it’s a testament to her will, and intellect, that, despite those very public and brutal attacks she and her family had to endure, she still thrives, a Stanford graduate, and a Rhodes scholar.

      It was still the White House, but imagine having to read the Starr Report, about your father, and then having to go to class, the next day, everyone knowing, others using it to try to harm you, simply because they thought like Kos, or Rush. It must have been a psychological Kosovo, civil war in the 90′s.

      Anything to win, no mercy, right?

      When you listen to Chelsea speak, I am often amazed at her ability to think critically, something Obama supporters don’t grasp, getting to the heart of an issue, correctly and succinctly, with compassion and humanity, as well as intellectual brilliance.

      Everything Chelsea is, is what Kos and the wommin haters strive to be, but never will.

      And a young person like Chelsea Clinton is really the future of this country, not kos. But kos is kinda old, anyway, right, like 35, or something?

  • Mr.Murder

    Chelsea Clinton representin’(/hip-hop)

    Seeing her on the campaign trail is quite interesting. The Clintons should have elevated her to some CSpan appearances, if she can answer things in depth to that extent.

    Sound byte television doesn’t give that kind of room.

    • TeakWoodKite

      or on Charlie Rose when he is “sober”.

      • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

        Sober?

        • TeakWoodKite

          I saw Charlie Rose in several interview loose his normal objectivity. He had an several people on Doing the Obama Koolaid dance… Last week? after super tuesday.

          It was odd.

        • TeakWoodKite

          He had some commentators or Book ends on his show and they were drinking Obama Kool-aid and having a good laugh on Senator Clinton dime. I think it was after Super Tuesday I think.

          It was out of character for him, as he normally fairly objective.

  • ybnormal

    Kudos to any family where a child grows up as someone to be proud of; in spite of growing up in a fish-bowl; with sharks.

    • TeakWoodKite

      What a front row seat to history. What a “living” education that must have been.

      Couldn’t agree more ybnormal.

  • Mike Howell

    I just looked at the latest Clinton bashing by CNN. There is a story about how Chelsea won’t talk to the press (gee – and they’ve been so great to the Clintons as evidenced by this next part) and in the article it has a video link that is titled “watch how controversy goes with the Clinton last name”.

    Can you imagine CNN putting a video out there with a link titled “Watch how controversy goes with the Obama last name” simply because one of his relatives wouldn’t talk to the media! Of course, Obama relatives love to talk to the media because it’s one big lovefest for them, but this is sickening.

    But wait until the media turns on Obama like it has been been after the Clintons all of these years. Obama has real dirt to be buried with when the microphones turn on him. It will make people long for the days of John Kerry’s windsurfing and John Dean’s holler.

    • Mike Howell

      Sorry – Howard Dean’s holler, not John Dean’s!

      • Jess Wonderin

        oh I don’t know, a John Dean’s style of “holler” from a Bushie Insider would be refreshing to say the least . . . “intergrity”, those were the days . . .

  • http://cujo359.blogspot.com Cujo359

    By engaging in such boorish behavior, criticising them with unrealistic nonsense about their marriage, and elevating their misdemeanors to the status of crimes against humanity while ignoring the real thing, Clinton’s enemies seem to be determined to make them look good in comparison. If they are, it’s certainly working.

  • Dimitri

    If the Clintons and all of their supporters are surprised by any of this then perhaps you should all just STFU. Politics is nasty, very nasty and one might think the Clintons would have a clear understanding of this. If Chelsea can’t stand the heat, get out of the campaign. It isn’t her fault people are saying stupid and insulting things about her but that is politics, and who should know better than a Clinton that smears and innuendo are a major part of any modern American campaign. The sad part is Chelsea answers questions and speaks very eloquently compared to her mother, maybe she should run instead of her mom!!

    I was sick of all the Clinton smears years ago from the drooling right wingnuts, it is unfortunate so many Obama supporters have to resort to the same old lame stuff, is anyone surprised? They could just stick to the true counts against Hillary, she voted for the war and has done nothing to bring an end to it. That is one of the biggest counts against her. Obama hasn’t done anything to end the war as well but at least if he is President the Clinton hate machine will be on the back burner and we will be free of the endless Hillary and Bill soap opera, well at least for a while anyway.

    The adds from the Clinton campaign are just as childish and pathetic as Obama’s. Both candidates represent the same old DC establishment crap most Americans are sick of, too bad the real progressive, Kucinich, is out of the race, yeah, I can hear it now, he was never in the race to begin with

    The plutocracy will continue unabated no matter which one of these two are elected. And more than likely the dreadful criminals of the Dumbya regime will be allowed to skate away from their tyranny and war crimes. Why are people so upset about these cheap tragedies regarding Chelsea when the Dumbya regime is allowed to continue it’s tyranny? What ever happened to the worries about what these assholes did to Plame? What did Hillary or Obama do regarding that obvious crime? Absolutely nothing.

    We will have to endure years of the Clinton soap opera if she is President and I for one am not looking forward to that. I don’t think Obama is much better but at least the right wing corporate media doesn’t have nearly the delusional ammo they have against him as opposed to Hillary.

    • ybnormal

      What ever happened to the worries about what these assholes did to Plame? What did Hillary or Obama do regarding that obvious crime? Absolutely nothing.

      In fairness, let’s see what Joe, Valerie’s other half, had to say right here at noquarter.
      http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/12/1510/

      Time and again, she reached out to my wife – outed CIA officer Valerie Plame Wilson – and me to remind us that as painful as the attacks were, we simply could not allow ourselves to be driven from the public square by bullying.

      Sounds to me like the actual people involved felt supported.

      • Dimitri

        I stand corrected to a limited point.

        Both Obama and Clinton could’ve done something more than give her and Joe a call for support, I am glad to hear Clinton did so. What I am saying is they didn’t make a big stink about this crime on the floor of the Senate or any other public forum. They sat by and let these tyrannical chumps get away with outing Plame, a few calls of support doesn’t cut it.

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

      Good lord. She can take the “heat.” It’s just that those holding those signs are such boorish pigs. She has the grit and poise to deal with it, but she should NOT have to. My god, if anyone held signs up like that at an Obama rally, the MSM would be on it non-stop for days. Jack Caffert would be braying at the moon!

  • Ron Cowin

    Sanford University is known as the Harvard of the West. So whatever anyone says about Chelsea, she is not stupid. Her income sounded about right for the typical Stanford grad.
    Dimitri: do you, or anyone else think it matters one iota to the right-wing attack machine who we nominate? If they can’t find any dirt, they will just go ahead and create some. They could take St. Francis of Assisi and you would end up thinking he killed cock robin and stole the Liberty Bell. Make John Kerry look foolish and dishonest. Take Richard Nixon and his band of crooks and liars updated to the 21st century. Nixon had his 18 1/2 minute gap in his tapes. Karl Rove has all of his e-mails disappear: no embarassing gaps. Tough luck Congress. Tough luck Special Prosecutor.

    • Dimitri

      No, it doesn’t matter who is elected, the corporate right wing media machine will do their thing. I just don’t want to hear the Clinton soap opera anymore. The machine will go after Obama when he gets the nomination and I predict it will backfire way more than you think.

      “They could take St. Francis of Assisi and you would end up thinking he killed cock robin and stole the Liberty Bell.” Ron Cowan

      No Ron, I will not end up thinking anything but if we had a real progressive as President perhaps our media structure could be changed for the better. I am not fooled one bit by the propaganda so please do not imply that I am, thanks!

      Chelsea Clinton is a very bright young woman, she is very articulate and I have tremendous amount respect for her. She should go into politics because she is so very brilliant, I would vote for her in a heartbeat!

      The Dumbya Regime belongs in the Hague for crimes against humanity, forget the Special Prosecutor or Congress!

      • shirin

        The trouble is that the Dumbya regime is hardly the only one whose members belong in the Hague. Bill Clinton’s regime committed its own share of international crimes, the most vile of which was starving and strangling and brutalizing the Iraqi population in the interest of regime change.

        And before that, there was Bush I, and before that there is a whole string of criminal regimes.

        The Bush II regime is not the disease, it is only a symptom. The disease did not start with Bush and getting rid of Bush will not cure it.

        • Dimitri

          Yes before Bush one there was Iran/Contra and Clinton just allowed those crimes to go away forever, what a fool.

          The disease is plutocracy. When our so-called representatives are given bribes from the corporation we all lose. It is nothing new, but the Dumbya Regime has taken the tyranny to new heights.

          • Fred C. Dobbs

            >>> Yes before Bush one there was Iran/Contra and Clinton just allowed those crimes to go away forever, what a fool.

            Wellll, there WAS the little thing of The Addled Puppet Reagan passing out Presidential Pardons like Chiclets the last few days before his term ended. And George Hideous Wanker Bush’s dedication to the Rule of Law was as inclusive as my enthusiasm for hip-hop culture.

        • Mike Howell

          shirin –

          Fairy dust and magic were not at President Clinton’s disposal although they seem to be the centerpiece of Barack Hussein Obama’s policies.

          What President Clinton showed was admirable restraint.

          • shirin

            Another lovely non sequitur, Mike Howell. Congratulations on your ability to consistently avoid addressing the point. Necessary, I suppose, when you haven’t got anything at all.

            • Mike Howell

              shirin –

              President Clinton was the best President in a very long time especially in matters of foreign affairs. His sound reasoned approach managed to keep the U.S. out of unnecessary wars that other Presidents rushed into.

              No amount of your seemingly endless Sylvia Plath can change that fact. I know that it’s dark and that it may get darker. Enough already.

              You’re like Steven Wright minus the wit and humor.

  • CK

    Military service age Chelsea is just doing for her family what the five military age sons of Mitt Romney did for his and the military aged daughter of John McCain is doing for her dad. Obama’s children have not yet attained military service age. Huckabee’s military age sons are still looking for another dog. ( Neither of our president’s military age offspring have shown any taste for military service either nor any of his military age nieces or nephews )
    It is probably inappropriate to notice that none of the military age offspring are directly involved in anything dangerous or military even while their nation is “at war.”
    I think maybe opting out is a more accurate term than pimping out and can be applied across the board.

    • Dimitri

      The military aged children of the neocon jackasses should be in Iraq not the others. They’re all cowards just like their parents.

      • CK

        Senators McCain and Clinton voted for sending other folks kids to war. Senators McCain and Clinton and Obama voted to continue funding that war that is killing other folk’s kids. Senator Clinton voted for Kyl LIeberman, Senators McCain and Obama were busy elsewhere with other things.
        Granting you all their other flaws and evils, Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, and the rest of the neocons ( except Lieberman ) did not have an enabling vote. Goldberg can write all the stupidity he wants but he is not a voting senator nor a candidate for president.

  • SirScud

    Is this your idea of substantive discussion and enlightened Progressive political discourse?

    For more background on the source of the PIMP remarks — which emanated from the nasty mouth of David Schuster on MSNBC, who was suspended for two weeks (he deserves more punishment

    )
    No rational person even remotely familiar with the reporting David Schuster has done on the Bush Cabal, especially his work on the abuses Valerie Plame and her husband suffered at their hands, and many other important issues of the day, would launch such an exaggerated and vile characterization. This was obviously simply a very poor choice of words, made by an otherwise outstanding journalist, who I suspect is both professionally embarrassed and sorry for his mistake.
    What about you? Do you stand by your claim (see quote above) that he made more than one remark? Do you still portend that your claim that he has a “nasty mouth” emanates from a mouth that speaks not a like intent?
    I suspect, that the recent torrent of vitriol and slander that you and your sycophants have birthed herein, bespeaks a much more foul doctrine of serial nastiness, than any screed that Mr. Schuster’s time or inclination would allow.
    Frankly, what this citizen Progressive sees, is the malignant prose of Rovian neoconservatives, trying to hide behind their flawed perceptions of enlightened dialog. One would think that the past experiences with “Blow Back” would be instructive, but then, even closeted conservatives disdain history.

    • Cee

      SirScud,

      Good point about the work that Schuster has done.

      Seems to me that the Clinton clan has placed their personal feelings before the good of the nation.

      • Mike Howell

        Cee –

        Schuster and that woman with the blond hair that was perpetually hoarse like him are both gone now. I can’t remember why the lady left, but Schuster made the mistake of letting his truly reprehensible lack of journalistic integrity out during an on air broadcast.

        Did you really think he got paid the big bucks for investigating? All he had to do was not be a jerk and he couldn’t pull that off.

        Now he can be a blogger like the rest of us non-professionals.

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

      I’ve heard plenty from him of late — plenty — that was skewed heaviy against Hillary and towards Obama. In other words, while he has been an excellent professional reporter at times, he has bought into the MSNBC meme that it’s cool to bash Hillary and to annoint Barack. He knows the game: He can bash Bush safely, report on Libby safely, but now that it’s the primary season and all of his compadres are on the Obama wagon, he knows self-preservation. And NONE of his previous reporting excuses what he did.

      FYI: It’s easy to like reporters when they’re reporting on what YOU want to hear. It’s another thing to look at their work critically and objectively, and to criticize them heavily if they warrant such criticism.

      No one put a gun to his head to apologize. He apologized, and so did Olbermann, I hear, on Shuster’s behalf. They know he went way too far. Hopefully, he’ll learn — but I hope the only lesson is not just to be correct in one’s speech, but also to try to be more balanced in his reporting, and not to sell his soul to go along with the MSNBC bandwagon.

      The ONLY commentator on MSNBC who is speaking his mind out of personal conviction — and not pandering to the MSNBC meme — is Pat Buchanan. I often don’t agree with him, but I respect his fealty to himself. Another one is John McLaughlin — like his views or not, he has the ability to see things as they are, to him, and to say so.

  • vee

    The media is not going to turn on Obama. It will take the slow workings of the judicial system to remove him from the political machine. That won’t happen until he is elected unless siting in jail moves Antoin Rezko to tell the Fitzgerald team what they want to know.

    • TeakWoodKite

      That won’t happen until he is elected unless siting in jail moves Antoin Rezko to tell the Fitzgerald team what they want to know.

      Fitzgerald already knows most of what Rezko might have to say. If his prosecution of Scotter Liby is any example. He has, for some, an annoying habit of confirming facts via multiple sources. Who else has made Rove run like Forest Gump down to the court house, 5 times to avoid being charged? All that work in the So District of NY FUBARED by these traitorous clowns, I’m sure he wouldn’t mind

      Barak and Michelle have most likely been deposed already. Love to see the witness lists, eh?

  • OxyCon

    You know what is so frightening about the followers of the Prophet Obama?
    How fast their former admiration of the Clintons has been turned into blind raging hatred towards them.
    How could the Prophet of “Hope” and “new politics” incite so many people to change from admiration to blind rage so quickly?
    You all know what I’m talking about.
    You open up your favorite blog only to learn that somehow “Chris Matthews is right! That bitch Clinton should fire her press people.”
    WTF?
    Or you’ve posted some of your concerns about Obama on another of your favorite blogs and the commenters you used to share some sense of comradery with are now ganging up on you calling you a racist, in between writing love poems about the Prophet Obama and reciting their favorite parts of his last speech.
    WTF?
    On another blog you used to enjoy, they’re repeating all of the right wing anti-Clinton smears from the 90s, except this time they are saying “I should have known Bill Clinton would do this”. From what? The lying smear Limbaugh made up?
    WTF?
    How did the Prophet Obama transform these former rational people into a bunch of frothing at the mouth Clinton haters who would give Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter a run for their money?
    How?
    The Prophet Obama is right about one thing.
    Change!
    He sure has brought about alot of change already.
    He’s changed thousands of people who used to admire and stick up for the Clintons into a bunch of delusional Clinton haters.

    • Patrick Henry

      Good Post OXYCON..

      I get your point..I saw the same thing at the Caucus I went to..All those people who would have been dedicated Clinton supporters..Changed..

      Repeating over and over..” Now We Can Have Change.”.

      Well…Thats what Politics is all about..
      To some Politicians..”POWER and $$CHANGE$$”

      Slogans “Like “Yes We Can..” or ” Mac Attack”

      Lets ratchet the emotion Level up to requiring Closed Fist Salutes.. and Flat Palmed salutes to go with them..

      PARTY TIME..

  • Cee

    OxyCon

    Stop whining. Hillary is a liar and so is her husband.

    • shirin

      They’re all liars. They’re all politicians, aren’t they?

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

      No statements of fact required. Just slamming people. Sadly, that’s Kossack-ish, er Obamadroid-ish behavior.

      • Cee

        LOL! Statements of fact coming from you, Susan? LOL!!

  • Cee

    Let me add that not only are they liars, THEY ARE DESPERATE!

    Cuellar has been financially supported by the Club for Growth, the National Right to Life PAC, and the Texas Right to Life PAC, and voted with Bush on FISA, on Military Detainees, the Bankruptcy Bill, and on tax cuts.

    Cuellar’s Progressive Punch score in an abysmal 73.65 and he ranks 209th among Democrats. His lowest scores are on Family Planning (16.67), Corporate Subsidies (35.29), Justice for All: Civil and Criminal (54.35), Government Checks on Corporate Power (58.33), and the Environment (65.57).

    This is the guy that Bill Clinton decided to spend all day with yesterday. Bill Clinton toured Texas with the only Democrat in the House of Representatives that voted not to hold Josh Bolten and Harriet Miers in contempt on the day after he decided not to help them in contempt.

    What kind of message does that send to you?

    http://www.boomantribune.com/