A Civilized Consensus

“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have”

Thomas Jefferson

Good quote

Old Grumpy Guy, I find that I agree with everything you stated. Will you start a new party based on these principles? I have never joined a political party but would consider one such as this!!!!

P.S. I don’t post often but I always enjoy your posts. Thank you.

Your civilized consensus thing sound hilarious specially when you apply it to government. Anyway. So your consensus is by weighting the opinions of those who you relate with personally or some standard deviation? Do my opinions modify yours?

bankruptcy

Is an important aspect of the free market that prevents health care cost from skyrocketing to any price they like to charge.

Why would a bankruptcy from a health care procedure damage the credit worthiness of anyone? Why?

The issue is not with the health care system, which in itself is totally irrational in terms of costs, the issue is with how a credit bureau has the ability to inflict more damage on people than the criminal system. No? Maybe? Equal damage?

Why do we as a society have surrendered so much the purchasing power of people to a credit bureau? Why?

Let’s do it!

Sorry, lark, but I don’t understand what you are trying to say.

I understood what you were trying to say.

Well OGG, your manifesto reflects a very civilized and liberal political perspective (and I use “liberal” in the old good sense). I’ll vote for you (if you’re running against O, that is).

However, your video and accompanying music present a different outlook entirely; you tried to disguise the scene with artistic blurring effects, but I recognize the action–that’s us poor villagers with torches and pitchforks storming the castle where evil dwells! I’m glad you muted the spectacle with special effects, because it’s not going to be a pretty picture.

May reason prevail in these foreboding days!

What’s with the sexuality and not wanting people to flaunt it in your face (unless invited to). Baby, you are gonna have to put a pillow over your face and hide. You just ruled out 95% of American advertising, 95% of the tv programming. Usually that style of remark is directed at folk who don’t share the het view of the universe. But, whatever. If you’d like a more respectful treatment of peoples sexuality and a turn in America’s never ending
spiral into exploitation of anybody on whatever grounds will sell.. then I’m with ya all the way.

great post OGG, and I agree as well.

The best thing society/govt. can do for the poor is teach them how to be self sufficient, reward hard work. If someone can’t find a job or get hired due to lack of skills/edication/work history, there should be farms where people could go pick crops or be required to volunteer at a charity of their choice in exchange for public assistance.

As they say, there is no free lunch. The government can give someone a welfare check but the price is your freedom, an opportunity to build character and be self sufficient.

I fear the time for civil society such as you describe has passed. Such a shame. What we have now is “lowest common denominator” society.

Manners are what help us live in close proximity to people we may or may not like. Manners too are gone, replaced by “in your face”. Here is an example: I was heckled (with good humor) at my “partner’s” family reunion for writing and mailing thank you notes for gifts received for the holidays. Apparently people find being thanked in writing funny in 2009.

The movie Idiocracy comes to mind more and more.

That’s where I got my s/n. We are living that already! It’s got to be my favorite movie!

Wouldn’t you rather have their president than the one we have now?

Bring on President Camacho and his special new salute

I’d vote for you for the OGG party.

OGG your views mirror my own. Whom you sleep with is none of my business unless you’re sleeping with me.

Do I have a sense of community and caring? Yes I do.
I subscribe to the MLK school of thought. I don’t care about the color of your skin but the content of your character.

An OT remark. Remember how Obama was praised for passing the SCHIP program? I swear I remember Bush vetoing said program and the Congress passing the bill with a veto proof override. I think even the Daily Show remarked on this.

Anyone know?

Frankly, I don’t want ANYONE’S sexuality crammed down my throat, not on the street, not on tv, not in magazines, not in music. That belongs in private.

Grumpy…

Thanks for putting this video up…I Love it…and Every think your creative mind Produces..as an Author and Composer…Moder Ma with “Civilized Mind’..David niven and richard Burton in One Package…

I just put my headphones on and Played your Wonderful Video..of “The Crusades”..another Epic Period of Saving “Western Civilization” for its rightful Role of Human Liberty and Freedom of Choice…as You so artfully Express..

it appears the meaning of that Point has been m,issed by some readers so Far..however I Concure with your Philosophy and Appreciate your points of View..

I can see you seated at a Round table with Most of historys great Thinkers and Composers and Writers..
debating our “Modern” world..and how “Civilization”
and being “Civilized”…Have ebbed and flowed Literally and Emotionally like the Greatest Operas..
and Plays..and Novels and Music ever written..

I felt that ebb and flow as I watched Your “CRUSADE” Video..Loving the Rolling sounds of Kettle drums and Strings..Using my Imagination to Visualize the Flow of Action ..in its artful Multi Dimensional form you Used..I was able to Visualize Scenes that varied between Crusader Swords…and Knghts of the round Table…to The drama of the “LORD OF THE RINGS”…and Epic battle between Opposite Forces..and Powers..

BRAVO Grumpy…You are a Tremendous Contribution to NO QUARTER…All of your Peers, past and present..Applaude you too..

In My Mind…That Includes my Friend..Tom Jefferson..

They Know your MIND and HEART..

VIVA LA LIBERTY..AND CREATIVITY…!!

OGG I find your observations comfortingly traditionally WASP.
I am WASP and proud of it, despite WASPs usually being portrayed as villains.

Love the gorgeous video and music!

I’m with you.

I wonder what will happen to “Girls Gone Wild” when Burquas become mandatory? Pornography? Vogue? Hollywood, Rap? I don’t think the “yute” have thought this through…thinking that Lefty Fascism is cool and all.

What? Hand written thank you? You’re such a throw back! LOL.

Good for you. We need to protect social values. My southern relatives, disenfranchised after the war and poor as church mice for a long time, nevertheless kept all the hospitality and social customs in place and passed them down. My grandmother always had the entire family together around her table after church for Sunday Supper to reinforce this. It made for wonderful memories. Kindness, refinement and graceful living are priceless.

LOL! Let’s just put toilet water on Obama!

OGG: I am also culturally conservative in that I resist the pressures of other cultures to foist their values on me and other westerners, for example the recent attempt to get the United Nations to ban any criticisms of Islam.

So, what’s your stance on the Vatican’s efforts during the last two Presidential elections to pressure American Catholics into voting only for politicians who uphold Catholic doctrine and endorsing efforts to withhold Catholic sacraments (such as Communion) from Catholic politicians whose votes “violate” Catholic doctrine (most notably on birth control and abortion rights issues)?
What’s your position on the Vatican’s aligning with Islamic countries on gay rights (as well as women’s rights) measures? The Vatican (despite its lack of full UN participation) has been one of the strongest voices (along with a number of Islamic countries) in denouncing efforts designed to combat homophobia. Should the Vatican (or any other religious denomination) have a “right” to interfere with secular politics on the grounds of protecting “tradition”? The whole matter of same-sex marriage has been attacked by “cultural conservatives” who denounce any effort that would weaken “traditional” marriage.

OGG: But I don’t much care for people who try to flaunt their sexuality (or their views) in everyone’s face, unless invited to.

With regard to that, would you please define “flaunt their sexuality”? After all, many people who have “no problems with gays” tack on “as long as they don’t flaunt their sexuality in public”, which typically means, “I don’t want to see two men or two women in public holding hands or kissing”, while preserving the double standard of having little problem with a man and a woman (whether teenagers or senior citizens) doing the same, as long as it’s done within reason. Few people really want to see a hetero couple getting to second base in a mall or grocery store, but, outside of gay ghettos, there’s almost no acceptance of gay or lesbian couples even touching first base in public.
Then there’s the Pride Parades. The “cultural conservatives” scream about the “flaunting their sexuality” yet there’s no reticence about football games which flaunt sexuality all over the place. Look at the players and their uniforms. Yes, they’re wearing pads for protection, but isn’t it interesting how that “protection” just happens to emphasize certain male physical characteristics (for instance, the broad shoulders and chest)? Or, what about the cheerleaders? Does anyone honestly think that cheerleaders would get as much camera time if they were wearing sweatsuits or were “plus-sized” gals? As NTZ noted, a hell of a lot of advertising is all about flaunting sexuality which only seem to offend a small percentage of people, but rarely enough to get the ads pulled. On the other hand, when was the last time you saw an ad (in a mainstream magazine or on a mainstream TV show) that featured gay or lesbian couples that didn’t get quickly pulled because of outrage from a few “concerned citizens”? Where are the ads promoting “male enhancement” directed at GAY consumers? The ads I’ve seen all feature HETERO couples (and, apparently, they’re all in long-term relationships). Where are the ads dealing with hair replacment that suggest the guy is gay? The ones I’ve seen (even on the gay channel, LOGO) feature either hetero couples or a single guy (who may or may not be paired up with a woman by the end of the spot). Even ads that do have some “gay sensibility” tend to be very ambiguous (VW did an ad several years ago featuring two guys driving around and finding an abandoned bed but there was nothing to explicitly suggest there was any “special” relationship between the guys).

which typically means, “I don’t want to see two men or two women in public holding hands or kissing”, while preserving the double standard of having little problem with a man and a woman (whether teenagers or senior citizens) doing the same, as long as it’s done within reason.

Have to admit, I don’t like public displays…straight or gay, regardless of age. English ancestors?

You might enjoy a study done some years ago about cultures and tactile contact. It seems that the researchers went to South America and observed an average of approximately 50 tactile contacts within each 15 minutes. In France, about 30. Then on to the UK, where they waited, and waited, and waited…

Guess it’s just inbred.

Re: flaunting= public tonguing; ya know, like the media and Little O(bama).

If burquas become mandatory, the price of Girls Gone Wild videos will quadruple, at least. Of course, if you’re caught with one of these DVD’s, it could cost you an arm and a leg!

Holy water maybe?

Or it could make you simply lose your mind/head!

they waited, and waited, and waited…

And they’re still waiting.

Sorry I forgot the punch line…

OGG, You think much like myself, and I would second the comment that we need a party with middle of the road values. I consider myself more a libertarian right now. I still have my republican card, but I am done with the two parties we currently have. To me, they are the same in effect to one another. Look at the earmarks… nobody wants to give up the ability to buy constituent votes. The institution is self serving and for most of us… we are left out holding the bag and the bill.

I agree that these social graces (or manners or whatever you wish to call them) are what greases the wheels of civil society. Its sad to see them go by the wayside.

But I think we may be the only two people left who agree on this!

I just listened to “The Road to Democracy” on your cd. Beautiful. I didn’t realize before you had so many talents Grumps. I agree with the views in your post. I think most (thinking) people are somewhere down the middle. Pity we can’t run our country that way.

I hate to admit it but that film is one of my guiltiest pleasures. It’s boorish humor made me LOL many times. Set five hundred years into the future?

A literature professor once told our class that novels, even ones set in the distant past or future, are always about contemporary times.

I just saw that movie again a week or so back. I had forgotten about it. I was moved by the “bots” in the movie speaking of putting sports drinks on the plants… “it has electrolytes plants crave”. Every bot quoted it exactly, and mindlessly regardless of merit. I thought how much it reminded me of “change we need”. Just as mindless really.

You, me and Miss Manners and well, Emily Post.

My children love to tell the family of how I made them read Emily Post just in case I had missed anything. Although they have a good laugh on me, I know they appreciate the comfort they feel in social situations as a result.

Good and valid points, all.

Frankly, I could do without the erectile dysfunction ads — which always air while we’re eating dinner. I don’t care who’s in them, they’re off-putting in any case. In my parents’ day, it was usually just digestive aid commercials at dinnertime.

Before anyone admonishes me, I’ll admit we shouldn’t have the TV on as often while eating and instead listen to music more — easier to swallow that way.

I’d like to know what type of backlash we may be in store for in reaction to the present indulgence in prurient interests? How much more intense will it get before society says ENOUGH!? What does history tell us?

My word, oowawa, are you proposing revolution? But thanks for your vote of confidence.

Baby, you are gonna have to put a pillow over your face and hide.

I HAVE been walking around with a pillow over my face to shield myself from all the ugliness. Why do you think I look so pale?

The movie Idiocracy comes to mind more and more.

Is it just me, or do they seem to be getting even more idiotic and self-congratulatory.

Wow, Patrick Henry, you’ve made me blush (and that takes a lot of doing). I feel obliged to protest with a pretense of modesty, but modesty is not my strongest suit. So I will just say: Thanks.

So, what’s your stance on the Vatican’s efforts during the last two Presidential elections to pressure American Catholics into voting only for politicians who uphold Catholic doctrine and endorsing efforts to withhold Catholic sacraments (such as Communion) from Catholic politicians whose votes “violate” Catholic do

I think the Vatican (and all organized religions) should stay out of politics as much as possible, and certainly not try to put pressure on people how to vote.

With regard to that, would you please define “flaunt their sexuality”?

Anything that’s too strident and “in your face”. (And that includes heterosexuality. I can’t stand guys strutting their macho stuff. To me they are just annoying and pathetic, trying desperately to prove something).

It needed the pregnant pause, Annie, so no need to ap;logize

Where did you get hold of the CD Annie?

Sure seems that way to me.

Which movie?

Well I agree with all of that and I am a PUMA BABY!!

So make up a new group if you want but I consider myself already there!

W00T!!

oh I just joined yet ANOTHER group – this one is called

Born again Americans

and the SONG they’ve compiled is really nice (and I’m no uber fan of the genre they picked)

it’s worth reading the lyrics at the site even if you don’t agree and/or sign up as I did

http://www.bornagainamerican.org/

ps. NOT a pushy religious site btw

Nice reminder Harp

Thanks Patience. Maybe I should post some more from my “Painting With Music” series, since they seem to be getting such a good reception.

CD, Grumpy?

You mentioned you heard “Road to Democracy” on my CD.

I don’t have an actual cd. I clicked on the link and listened to it.

Ah, I see.

Grumpy..

Your music Link Above in Your Article…takes us to Your “Millenium Suite” Website…One of the Movements there Can be clicked on to hear your Music..from”Road to Democracy…”

The Music is beautiful by the way..