Comments on: The New Feminism: Breaking the Multicultural Relativism Taboo http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/ Fri, 25 May 2012 02:46:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: donna darko http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152908 donna darko Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:49:40 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152908 I'm against cultural relativism, Sharia law and sexism anywhere. The article simply opposes sexism in any form. Racism in any form is denounced. The same should be done with sexism. I’m against cultural relativism, Sharia law and sexism anywhere.

The article simply opposes sexism in any form.

Racism in any form is denounced. The same should be done with sexism.

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152800 elise Thu, 05 Mar 2009 06:11:33 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152800 MCR is a constructed word and doesn't indicate an acceptance of cultural traditions which cause harm to members of the society in question or, by extension, others. "Leftist" feminist is a new phrase in our lexicon since conservative feminism has never been identified. It is my belief the only differences are those used by both political parties to get out the vote and divide. For years, conservative Republicans have been comfortable with classifying successful, independent women as femi-nazis, bitches and ball-breakers. Whatever the Obama supporters are willing to accept, they are not representative of the millions of women who supported Hillary Clinton and refused to vote for him because of the sexism encouraged by his campaign. How many conservative women have bothered to question the lies repeated about Hillary for more than fifteen years or have made an effort to protest her treatment by the press? "New" feminism became the new only after Gov Palin's candidacy and although I disagree with her on most social issues, I wrote to the media and NOW several times to protest her treatment and the lies being told about her and her family. I wonder how many Republican women have ever written in defense of Hillary? If the trashing of two women in the last two years, succeeds in unifying a sufficient number of our gender to make a real difference in the fight against abuse and for equality, then we can say something positive has come from the experience. But the recent attention to Sharia Law strikes me as less an outrage of the practices of a cult than another political tool. The Fundamentalist Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints held women in virtual slavery, their polygamists practices were known to the authorities in Texas and tolerated for years. Most of those women chose to stay in that environment to be with their children or were too indoctrinated to leave, but they had an option and places to go for help. Some have said the acceptance of the law in the UK has helped women. Rules for marriage and divorce were negotiated to allow them the same rights as other citizens and any crime of violence is adjudicated under British law. The Sharia Law allows a community to arbitrate a limited number of issues, just as some religious sects in the US are allowed to do. I don't like this post and I have serious doubts about the motivation. I refuse to be a puppet to anyone's agenda ever again and it is for that reason I left the Democratic Party after many years of voting only for party candidates. I will protest abuse and sexism as I have done for the last thirty years while never forgetting for a moment what happens here, in my own country. MCR is a constructed word and doesn’t indicate an acceptance of cultural traditions which cause harm to members of the society in question or, by extension, others. “Leftist” feminist is a new phrase in our lexicon since conservative feminism has never been identified. It is my belief the only differences are those used by both political parties to get out the vote and divide. For years, conservative Republicans have been comfortable with classifying successful, independent women as femi-nazis, bitches and ball-breakers. Whatever the Obama supporters are willing to accept, they are not representative of the millions of women who supported Hillary Clinton and refused to vote for him because of the sexism encouraged by his campaign. How many conservative women have bothered to question the lies repeated about Hillary for more than fifteen years or have made an effort to protest her treatment by the press? “New” feminism became the new only after Gov Palin’s candidacy and although I disagree with her on most social issues, I wrote to the media and NOW several times to protest her treatment and the lies being told about her and her family. I wonder how many Republican women have ever written in defense of Hillary? If the trashing of two women in the last two years, succeeds in unifying a sufficient number of our gender to make a real difference in the fight against abuse and for equality, then we can say something positive has come from the experience. But the recent attention to Sharia Law strikes me as less an outrage of the practices of a cult than another political tool. The Fundamentalist Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints held women in virtual slavery, their polygamists practices were known to the authorities in Texas and tolerated for years. Most of those women chose to stay in that environment to be with their children or were too indoctrinated to leave, but they had an option and places to go for help. Some have said the acceptance of the law in the UK has helped women. Rules for marriage and divorce were negotiated to allow them the same rights as other citizens and any crime of violence is adjudicated under British law. The Sharia Law allows a community to arbitrate a limited number of issues, just as some religious sects in the US are allowed to do. I don’t like this post and I have serious doubts about the motivation. I refuse to be a puppet to anyone’s agenda ever again and it is for that reason I left the Democratic Party after many years of voting only for party candidates. I will protest abuse and sexism as I have done for the last thirty years while never forgetting for a moment what happens here, in my own country.

]]> By: donna darko http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152750 donna darko Thu, 05 Mar 2009 03:26:13 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152750 The New Feminism condemns misogyny in all its forms and there's no need to mention race or religion. The New Feminism condemns misogyny in all its forms and there’s no need to mention race or religion.

]]> By: donna darko http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152748 donna darko Thu, 05 Mar 2009 03:24:49 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152748 <blockquote>Toeing the MCR line not only means that race and ethnicity always trump gender, but also stifles feminists’ speaking out vigorously and unequivocally on behalf of women. We must break multicultural relativism’s silencing taboo or it will break us. The New Feminism—a Third Way. </blockquote> I read a different article than you because she said the exact opposite: Leftist feminists focus on race and religion and therefore did not condemn Obama for not firing Favreau, Hassan for murdering his wife and Chris Brown for abusing his girlfriend.

Toeing the MCR line not only means that race and ethnicity always trump gender, but also stifles feminists’ speaking out vigorously and unequivocally on behalf of women.

We must break multicultural relativism’s silencing taboo or it will break us.

The New Feminism—a Third Way.

I read a different article than you because she said the exact opposite:

Leftist feminists focus on race and religion and therefore did not condemn Obama for not firing Favreau, Hassan for murdering his wife and Chris Brown for abusing his girlfriend.

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152733 elise Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:43:05 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152733 Donna, Yes, Dr March said everything you say, but she said much more. By somehow creating categories for the motivation for the actions of western/Muslim men, she implies one is more lethal than the other and everything else is based on that premise. Bringing Sharia Law into the conversation, turned the focus of the problem to religion and away from VAW. Then she introduced feminism into the essay, as if women are in some way responsible for a lack of resolution to the problem. As far as the Sharia Law being introduced into our country, anyone in the US is subject to US law and anything else wouldn't be tolerated. Religious practices in our country are permitted, even, guaranteed in our Constitution and I wouldn't want it to be otherwise. Given we all know this is true, her references are misleading. Donna, Yes, Dr March said everything you say, but she said much more. By somehow creating categories for the motivation for the actions of western/Muslim men, she implies one is more lethal than the other and everything else is based on that premise. Bringing Sharia Law into the conversation, turned the focus of the problem to religion and away from VAW. Then she introduced feminism into the essay, as if women are in some way responsible for a lack of resolution to the problem. As far as the Sharia Law being introduced into our country, anyone in the US is subject to US law and anything else wouldn’t be tolerated. Religious practices in our country are permitted, even, guaranteed in our Constitution and I wouldn’t want it to be otherwise. Given we all know this is true, her references are misleading.

]]> By: donna darko http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152715 donna darko Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:16:25 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152715 Of course, the feminist solution to that is to oppose sexism wherever it exists and to not institute Sharia law in the US. Of course, the feminist solution to that is to oppose sexism wherever it exists and to not institute Sharia law in the US.

]]> By: donna darko http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152714 donna darko Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:14:52 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152714 Her post is simply about opposing sexism wherever it exists: * We need to draw a line when respect or tolerance for other cultures and religions turns into accepting practices which harm women. * We cannot accept a dual legal system or cultural practices that subordinate or erase the rights of women to self-determination and bodily integrity. I worry the US will institute Sharia law like they did in the UK. Her post is simply about opposing sexism wherever it exists:

* We need to draw a line when respect or tolerance for other cultures and religions turns into accepting practices which harm women.

* We cannot accept a dual legal system or cultural practices that subordinate or erase the rights of women to self-determination and bodily integrity.

I worry the US will institute Sharia law like they did in the UK.

]]> By: donna darko http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152711 donna darko Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:09:42 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152711 Yes, we condemn all violence. Yes, we condemn all violence.

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152688 elise Thu, 05 Mar 2009 01:14:30 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152688 Dr. Marsh, I read your post twice and avoided reading the comments, because I want to understand exactly what you are saying and the purpose of the post. In your effort to define the "new" feminism, you have tried to remove the evidence which exists in our own society of abuse and sexism by referring to the failure of other societies/religions as something apart. The violation of human rights in whatever context they occur should be condemned by people of good conscience everywhere. The beheading of a Muslim woman in our country is outrageous and this man will be tried and punished according to the laws here. He will not be allowed to use his social or religious views as an argument to validate his actions. But to turn this into an argument for or against the actions of feminist in this country is disingenuous. If you are saying our country should speak out against these practices where ever they occur, I agree completely and I would add doing business with these countries is hypocritical whether it is China or Saudi Arabia. It seems your opinion only addresses killings which occur in our country in which case, to describe it as something other than domestic violence advances your argument it should be responded to in a different context than the more than one thousand/yr homicides committed by spouses or intimate partners against women which occur in this country every year. Attny Yates (whoever she is, I had no luck on Google) is splitting hairs by trying to differentiate between violence committed by a western man against women in terms of self justification and the violence of a man justifying his action by acceptance of his community or government. Dead is dead and fearing the importation of Sharia Law into non Muslim countries is specious, if not deliberately misleading. It's difficult to believe anyone would take such an argument seriously even if every Muslim country condones this practice, which is not true. I agree the women's groups in our country have failed women and have moved beyond the original movement into the political arena and aren't responsive to the very real sexism and inequality which still exists in the US after more than a hundred years of struggle. In the early years in the US, men were not punished for violence against women and the Salem Witch Trials are a good example of the absence of laws against killing women publicly. Less than ten years ago, Turkey passed a law requiring a mandatory life sentence for honor killings whether the victim was male or female and, in many instances, men in the US serve a much shorter period of time. As recently as 2000, the Southern Baptist Convention issued the following statement with respect to marriage: <b>" A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ."</b> The Catholic Church refuses to even consider the ordination of women as priests. While neither of these denominations condone violence against women, their policies demean and show a lack of respect for equality. If the US condemns the killing and violation of women around the world, it should first be willing to represent women as equal partners with full rights. We don't live in isolation here. What we do and how we treat all of our citizens is noted by other countries and since we are supposed to be the guiding light of freedom and equality, what we do matters. I feel we wouldn't even be having this discussion without the memory of 9/11 or the disgusting behavior of our media and political leaders in the last election. American women need to redefine what feminism means for them and only we can change things (with the help of a some truly liberated men). In the end, I'm not sure of the intent of your post or what you think should be done. This story has been publicized and will continue to be until a resolution, just as the story of a CA man who killed his wife and unborn child in order to escape responsibility and begin a new life with a new woman was repeated many times on cable news. I'm still a member of, but no longer a believer in NOW, but I don't recall they made any public statement about Scott Peterson. I'm left wondering if your intention is to stir hatred against Muslims and/or discourage feminism in it's true sense. Dr. Marsh,
I read your post twice and avoided reading the comments, because I want to understand exactly what you are saying and the purpose of the post. In your effort to define the “new” feminism, you have tried to remove the evidence which exists in our own society of abuse and sexism by referring to the failure of other societies/religions as something apart. The violation of human rights in whatever context they occur should be condemned by people of good conscience everywhere. The beheading of a Muslim woman in our country is outrageous and this man will be tried and punished according to the laws here. He will not be allowed to use his social or religious views as an argument to validate his actions. But to turn this into an argument for or against the actions of feminist in this country is disingenuous. If you are saying our country should speak out against these practices where ever they occur, I agree completely and I would add doing business with these countries is hypocritical whether it is China or Saudi Arabia. It seems your opinion only addresses killings which occur in our country in which case, to describe it as something other than domestic violence advances your argument it should be responded to in a different context than the more than one thousand/yr homicides committed by spouses or intimate partners against women which occur in this country every year. Attny Yates (whoever she is, I had no luck on Google) is splitting hairs by trying to differentiate between violence committed by a western man against women in terms of self justification and the violence of a man justifying his action by acceptance of his community or government. Dead is dead and fearing the importation of Sharia Law into non Muslim countries is specious, if not deliberately misleading. It’s difficult to believe anyone would take such an argument seriously even if every Muslim country condones this practice, which is not true. I agree the women’s groups in our country have failed women and have moved beyond the original movement into the political arena and aren’t responsive to the very real sexism and inequality which still exists in the US after more than a hundred years of struggle. In the early years in the US, men were not punished for violence against women and the Salem Witch Trials are a good example of the absence of laws against killing women publicly. Less than ten years ago, Turkey passed a law requiring a mandatory life sentence for honor killings whether the victim was male or female and, in many instances, men in the US serve a much shorter period of time. As recently as 2000, the Southern Baptist Convention issued the following statement with respect to marriage:

” A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ.”

The Catholic Church refuses to even consider the ordination of women as priests. While neither of these denominations condone violence against women, their policies demean and show a lack of respect for equality. If the US condemns the killing and violation of women around the world, it should first be willing to represent women as equal partners with full rights. We don’t live in isolation here. What we do and how we treat all of our citizens is noted by other countries and since we are supposed to be the guiding light of freedom and equality, what we do matters. I feel we wouldn’t even be having this discussion without the memory of 9/11 or the disgusting behavior of our media and political leaders in the last election. American women need to redefine what feminism means for them and only we can change things (with the help of a some truly liberated men). In the end, I’m not sure of the intent of your post or what you think should be done. This story has been publicized and will continue to be until a resolution, just as the story of a CA man who killed his wife and unborn child in order to escape responsibility and begin a new life with a new woman was repeated many times on cable news. I’m still a member of, but no longer a believer in NOW, but I don’t recall they made any public statement about Scott Peterson. I’m left wondering if your intention is to stir hatred against Muslims and/or discourage feminism in it’s true sense.

]]> By: JulieD http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152655 JulieD Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:04:44 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152655 Great Post Artemis March! <blockquote>We need to draw a line when respect or tolerance for other cultures and religions turns into accepting practices which harm women.</blockquote> Love it!! Great Post Artemis March!

We need to draw a line when respect or tolerance for other cultures and religions turns into accepting practices which harm women.

Love it!!

]]> By: Woman Voter http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152645 Woman Voter Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:45:40 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152645 Amen Sister, Amen! Amen Sister, Amen!

]]> By: NoBamaNoWay http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152643 NoBamaNoWay Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:39:06 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152643 i think that most of us condemn ALL violence (except in obvious cases of self-defense), but i think that it would be pretty far off to suggest that women are equally as violent as men. i think that most of us condemn ALL violence (except in obvious cases of self-defense), but i think that it would be pretty far off to suggest that women are equally as violent as men.

]]> By: NoBamaNoWay http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152641 NoBamaNoWay Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:34:50 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152641 they (abusers) do it because they know they can get away with it, and sadly, most women's self-esteem is so low, they don't even know they deserve better. they (abusers) do it because they know they can get away with it, and sadly, most women’s self-esteem is so low, they don’t even know they deserve better.

]]> By: Alice Paul http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152640 Alice Paul Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:34:42 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152640 I assume that women are concerned against all violence but, it's inappropriate for you to assume that we as women have not criticized other religions. There is so much wrong headedness in your post it is not to be taken seriously. Male violence against women kills many more women every year than any violence women might commit against their male counterparts..many times in DEFENSE. Men for the most part are larger and stronger and can do far more serious harm given this fact. Finally, no. I am sorry but, it's violence against women and misogyny that I concern myself with now. Precisely because I gave my energies to every other "important" causes for years and then I learned this year that my country and it's media have a serious issue with acceptance of misogyny. It is seen as far less serious an issue than just about every other social ill. I just sat and listened to the editor of Newsweak say that he did not think sexism played a role much in the MSM during this election. THERE is the problem. The issue is not given any credence or brought to bear with any dedication as being of the utmost importance in this society and until it is, all these things will go on and on and on. So pardon me if I am not that concerned with women's violence against men at this moment in history. I will let you take up that torch and wish you well in that endevour. I would say though that you have far, far more opportunity to avenge yourself should you be such a victim. No one was criticizing Islam for the sake of criticizing Islam. We are criticizing, and condemning the practice of beheading or killing a woman and feeling justified in doing so just because you are a man and this action is one of your "rules" A life is a life and entitled to the same rights as any other. I assume that women are concerned against all violence but, it’s inappropriate for you to assume that we as women have not criticized other religions. There is so much wrong headedness in your post it is not to be taken seriously. Male violence against women kills many more women every year than any violence women might commit against their male counterparts..many times in DEFENSE. Men for the most part are larger and stronger and can do far more serious harm given this fact. Finally, no. I am sorry but, it’s violence against women and misogyny that I concern myself with now. Precisely because I gave my energies to every other “important” causes for years and then I learned this year that my country and it’s media have a serious issue with acceptance of misogyny. It is seen as far less serious an issue than just about every other social ill.

I just sat and listened to the editor of Newsweak say that he did not think sexism played a role much in the MSM during this election. THERE is the problem. The issue is not given any credence or brought to bear with any dedication as being of the utmost importance in this society and until it is, all these things will go on and on and on.

So pardon me if I am not that concerned with women’s violence against men at this moment in history. I will let you take up that torch and wish you well in that endevour. I would say though that you have far, far more opportunity to avenge yourself should you be such a victim.

No one was criticizing Islam for the sake of criticizing Islam. We are criticizing, and condemning the practice of beheading or killing a woman and feeling justified in doing so just because you are a man and this action is one of your “rules” A life is a life and entitled to the same rights as any other.

]]> By: NoBamaNoWay http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/16184/the-new-feminism-breaking-the-multicultural-relativism-taboo/#comment-1152639 NoBamaNoWay Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:31:52 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=16184#comment-1152639 oh please. maybe if people learned how to empathize with animals (thinking, feeling creatures), there would be a lot less problems among human beings. oh please. maybe if people learned how to empathize with animals (thinking, feeling creatures), there would be a lot less problems among human beings.

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