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Who’s Missing From This Picture?

By Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy on March 5, 2009 at 7:20 PM in Bamboozling, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Health Care, Hillary Clinton, Lobbyists

Today, Obama is holding a Forum on Health Care. According to the article:

The nation can’t afford to wait for the economy to recover before tackling out-of-control medical costs, President Barack Obama is telling some of the most powerful players in the health care reform debate.

“If we want to create jobs and rebuild our economy, then we must address the crushing cost of health care this year, in this administration,” Obama says in remarks prepared for delivery to a White House forum on the issue Thursday. Excerpts were released by the White House.

“Making investments in reform now, investments that will dramatically lower costs, won’t add to our budget deficits in the long term — rather, it is one of the best ways to reduce them,” Obama said.

Okey dokey. How will we pay for it? WHO is going to be working on this critical issue? A whole bunch of folks, it seems:

Obama has invited to the forum more than 120 people who hold a wide range of views on how to fix the world’s costliest health care system, one that still leaves an estimated 48 million people uninsured. Doctors, patients, business owners, insurers and drug industry representatives were to gather in hopes of building support for big changes. Republicans are invited, and they’re expected to speak up.

“The president wants to engage with Congress in a transparent and bipartisan fashion,” said Melody Barnes, who heads White House domestic policy.

Among the invitees are some who helped kill the Clinton administration’s health care overhaul in the 1990s. Everyone is supposed to be on his best behavior, but will that last?

“This is a different day, ” said Chip Kahn, a hospital lobbyist who opposed President Bill Clinton’s plan and was to attend Thursday’s gathering. “I think among most of the stakeholders, everyone wants to see this work. There is a tremendous feeling that it’s time.”

Now president of the Federation of American Hospitals, Kahn worked for the insurance industry in the Clinton years.

The difference this time, Obama argues, is that health care costs have become unsustainable, particularly in a sinking economy. The U.S. spends $2.4 trillion a year on health care, yet an estimated 48 million Americans lack coverage. Obama’s goal is health coverage for everyone.

A different day why, exactly, Mr. Kahn? I mean, the plan back then was pretty darn good, and MAYBE if people like you hadn’t worked to kill it, health care would not be the horrendous mess it is right now. Just a thought. Oh – and did anyone else notice that Kahn is a lobbyist?? Just asking…

Anyway, you know that hard-working (snark), hoops-shooting Obama – he is Johnny On The Spot with this issue:

Barnes said Obama is determined to pass health care legislation this year, and while he wants it to be bipartisan, he will not be deterred by obstruction from interest groups or ideological partisans.

“The president will make clear this has to be a bipartisan effort,” Barnes said. “As for people who are there to set up hurdles, from his perspective that isn’t tolerable. It’s crucial to families, businesses and our nation’s budget that we address the issue of exploding costs.”

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky released a letter to Obama, saying his party is ready to work with the administration on health care, but warning that reforms should not lead to a government-run system, and must balance coverage expansions with curbs on costs.

Barnes said that Obama “walks into this conversation being pragmatic, being open. He knows that the American people are hurting” and are seeing their premiums rise.

But Barnes, interviewed Thursday on NBC’s”Today” show, also said that “we have to be transparent about it. … We will also hear the voices of the American people … to make sure that health care reform gets before the president for his signature before the end of the year.”

In support of Obama’s efforts, liberal activists have mobilized to keep the pressure on Congress to pass legislation this year.

“It would be a mistake to dismiss this as a gabfest,” Drew Altman, president of the Kaiser Family Foundation, said about Obama’s meeting. “It’s an effort to keep the momentum going. The details are not going to be worked in two or three hours at a White House summit.”

There were concerns Wednesday about some of those details.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., who will play a leading role in writing health care legislation, raised questions about the proposed $634 billion “down payment” for expanded coverage that Obama included in the 2010 budget he released last week.

Bipartisan?? Are people still buying that hooey? And, Obama walks into this forum being “pragmatic”? Well, can someone please tell me why, then, this person is missing?

Yes, Hillary Clinton, the one who had the BEST health care policy according to Paul Krugman, and even Obama’s TV Star doctor, Dr. Gupta, both favored Clinton’s plan, and SHE IS NOT IN THE ROOM??? Remember when we were all saying that maybe since she was the Secretary of State, she might indeed have some input in this area? Uh, yeah, NO. Obama brings in people who derailed her policy and hard work back in the ’90′s, but he can’t bring HER into the room?

Such a big surprise that Clinton isn’t there for this important issue – hahahaha. It’s too damn bad, though – especially since HER Plan covered EVERYONE and cost less per person than Obama’s. He talks the talk, but walking the walk does not seem to be his forte. Once again, just like with the Stimulus Package, the Omnibus Bil, and the proposed Budget, the ones who will be paying for that is US. But even more, no way will his fragile ego ever acknowledge that Clinton’s plan was actually better than his, or that maybe, just maybe, because she has worked on this so much, that she migt actually be a good person to have around that table. I sure would have felt better about whatever they concoct there if she was. But, no.

It’ll be mighty interesting to see what these hospital lobbyists Obama invited to the Health Care Forum come up with on OUR behalf…

  • Linda C.

    I didn’t see any nurses included in the group. There is your tip off right there on the powers that are going to be represented and it ain’t us folks

    • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

      Excellent point, Linda C. Nurses are the day to day caregivers – who would know better than they what components of actual patient care should be included?

    • Deep Truths

      In the forum prior to Obama’s speech, the President of the nursing association spoke about the need for more staff at hospitals.

      • Linda C.

        The Forum prior has little to do with the group of power brokers that are actually going to make the decisions. Having “more staff” is the minimal answer to the entire debate and that only addresses the care needs of those who are hospitalized, not the majority of people needing care in this country.

        Right now the big fight between the AMA and the nurses is whether or not doctoral prepared nurses should enjoy the title of “Dr.”, much like any other doctoral prepared person. The medical profession want to say that nurse can’t use the title, although earned, as it might “confuse patients”. However, doctoral prepared persons in other health professions may still use the title of “Dr.”, including psychologists and pharmacists.

        So you think the AMA, the American Hospital Association, and the Insurance representatives are going to fight for you?

        • Linda C.

          BTW nurses have been prepared on the doctoral level for some time now and are demanding to use the title. Most of the titles were PhD or EdD. These are more academic titles. There is a program that has been around for awhile for DNSc. Doctorate of Nursing Science. It is a more clinically focused doctorate.

        • Deep Truths

          Just because its Obama’s forum doesn’t make it a bad idea. Health care has been an issue since the 1950′s.

          So what if you are a nurse. We are all in this together. The President of the nurses association was IN with the group that will make decisions.

          Enough with the knee-jerk reactions (from the right or left) and on with getting healthcare reform. Get off your soap-box and get in the game. The time to poo-poo any and every idea and present Cassandra-like predictions is over.

  • getfitnow

    Dr. Gupta has declined nomination for SG.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhXA3fXpCFk Woman Voter

      Yes, Hillary Clinton, the one who had the BEST health care policy according to Paul Krugman, and even Obama’s TV Star doctor, Dr. Gupta, both favored Clinton’s plan, and SHE IS NOT IN THE ROOM???
      ………

      Yes, they are snubbing the person that can speak to the issue first hand and fluidly. They also axed Dr. Dean…and all those Dems that were Universal Health Care advocates.

      Is the Gupta story a fact, I sure hope so.

  • reddragon22

    Thanks for writing this piece, Amy.

    Getting the costs out of health care is so simple. You do single payer and you do Lean (redesign delivery processes by front line people to get out the waste: wait times, excess inventories, steps in processes—anything that is not the delivery of care to patients and information to those who need it) and you get out 40-50% of the costs.

    You reframe the issue. It is not “govt-run” health care. it is nonprofit, low admin cost that puts health care back in hands of patients and providers. Most people dont know (or have been misled to believe) that Medicare must be inefficient because it is “govt run.” Admin costs on Medicare are less than 3%; I think I have seen 1.5-3%. Compare that with insurers, most of them profit seeking, whose admin costs are 25-30% of the costs. WE CANNOT DO HEALTH CARE IN A PROFIT MAKING SYSTEM. No one should be making a profit off of the health, illness, or dying of others. That is obscene.

    Instead, they will cater to the drug and insurance companies, keep wrecking our competitiveness with other countries, and start seriously rationing health care for seniors. Like everything else about this failed administration, they will bring the same power players who are causing the problem to the table—as if they were seriously going to do anything to reduce their greedy self-interests. And leave out the extraordinary woman who has brought so much this issue and could bring so much more.

    • Ellen D

      CNN’s headline a couple of days ago touted Sasketchewan as Canada’s most successful province. Lots of jobs, green initiatives with Montana, etc.
      Last time I was there in the early 90′s I was impressed with the wedding announcements and pictures of same sex couples.

      What does that have to do with this topic? In the 60′s it was Saskatchewan unilaterally bringing in Government single payer health insurance that caused it to be adopted across Canada. Looks like a pretty good example to me of how it affects an economy.

  • PO’dVet

    As one of those uninsured Americans, let me just say…GIVE ME A F&%KING BREAK! There is not just one plan out there superior to Obama’s. There are dozens of them! Damn…if they would take the simple and relatively cheap step of making dental care universal, not only would it create thousands of needed new jobs, it would also stop a large majority of preventable illnesses later on for a fraction of the cost. And everyone actually in the medical profession knows it’s true. But dental isn’t where the money is, so they all try to focus on drug prices. Oh boy…manage my health care and make it so my prescriptions only cost 5000 times what they actually cost to make rather than 7000! See this is the kind of shit that has made me one Pissed Off Vet! Think about it seriously. One of the most common reasons for uninsured visits to an ER is no other alternative to get a bad tooth fixed. So instead of covering $100 to get a filling when the problem first arises…they would prefer to have pay several thousand a few months later after the tooth has abscessed and exposed the person to a multitude of other opportunistic viruses! And several of those dental related opportunistic viruses are leading underlying causes for heart disease. So by all means, lets save a few hundred in the short run so we can spend ten if not hundreds of thousands in the long term.

    • jbjd

      Agreed.

    • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

      EXCELLENT points, Reddragon and PO’dVet. Y’ALL are the kind of people who should be in a Health Care forum, along with nurses and other care providers on the front lines. People who know what it is really like for people trying to get health care (or dental, and you are so right, PO’d, abt dental issues and the ER).

  • ahs

    She’s in Brussels, working (and doing a damn fine job, given early reports) to repair the shambles of US diplomacy. I think she’s kinda busy.

    It’s not like she’s still in the Senate and just getting snubbed. She has a huge, important, and very non-healthcare job right now. I don’t see what that has to do with process critiques of the Obama healthcare plan, let alone policy criticism.

    • Jackarooty

      Yes, another consideration…Sir Teddy made sure that she would never get near health care. He wanted to own this baby all by himself.

      Have you noticed that she is in every news cycle?

      As Shimon Peres referred to her:

      “Our very dear Hillary”.

    • sandi78

      Yes, she’s in Europe and it’s just coincidence that his health care fiasco begins when she’s out of the country.

  • no kidding

    Obama wants to tackle health care so he can say he is the only President to do so. In fact he is already saying that. So we see yet another totally expensive program without any thought behind it. Seems that the Tarp money has not made any of the banks prosperious and his health care bill is another way to ration care for those who need it the most.

    Obama, who tries so hard to be dazzling every minute is chalking up failure after failure. If you want to gauge how he’s doing then check the Stock Market’s daily slide and then ask yourself if a man who cares so little about people’s 401k’s actually cares about their health.

  • http://BREAKINGNEWS.COM Oisafraud

    For last time. Obama is Bush no difference.

    • Patriot

      Get over Bush; he is no longer in the oval office.
      Obama has done more to harm our country in a little over a month than even we expected. He is out to ruin our country and then he will become exactly what he wants to become; a dicator. I do not want HIS health care plan. Guaranteed there will be no health care for the elderly; under the Obama plan.
      I may as well bury my mother now; if O’s plan is law.

  • Peggy Sue

    I’m all for Health care reform; I do think it’s an important and on-going issue for business and society at large.

    But please! Pull the economy and the markets out of the tailspin first. Otherwise, health care, climate issues, energy and everything else is beside the point.

    It won’t matter.

    These are “not” market gyrations. These are free-fall indicators. I swear to God, I do not know what this administration thinks it’s doing, other than lead us to complete ruin. You don’t worry about excess energy costs when the house is burning.

    You put out the fire!! Hello? Where the hell is the fire department?

    Oy!

    • Patience

      DITTO!!!

    • lark

      I’m all for Health care reform

      But you really mean government health care reform or government mandated health care reform.

      What exactly under government health care reform will lower the cost of services or even for that matter control rising prices or cost? What?

      • Serf Nation

        Prices will not change. Just like all the other government run programs, there will just be more bureacracy in it, meaning more taxpayer cost, more corruption, more waste, more errors, more waiting, more regulations, more government control/limitations, and less choices for us. Oh, and medical research and results will be under the control of the government, dr will have no incentive to improve their knowledge and skills, less people will go into medical professions.

        I feel sorry for Canadians who come to the
        US for procedures because the waiting list for elective procedures is so long under their system. Where will they go if the US goes to nationalized care?

        • BlueTopaz

          In what decade are you living?????

          America has one of the highest infant mortality rates of all the industrialized nations, and that’s just for starters! But go ahead and perpetuate that same old propaganda line that’s been keeping you and other Americans blissfully ignorant for years. Whatever gets you through the night.

      • BlueTopaz

        Good ?, why don’t we study the successful systems used in other countries? From my own experience, I can tell you the health care in Holland and England is better than here. It’s also less expensive per capita and they live longer. They must be doing something right.

        • lark

          The issue is that only competition provide for efficiency, quality and lower costs. Any other way tends to increase corruption.

          • sandi78

            Any banker will agree with you on that.

            • BlueTopaz

              The bankers competing for the highest salaries?

  • Patrick Henry

    Face IT..

    Its becoming Obvious that HILLARY is nothing more than a LEVERAGING tool for Obama…Sent out becuase of ther EXPERTISE and CONTACT…to make OBAMAS GIVERNMENT look good and gain Influence..Its not about Hillary Its About OBAMA..

    Dont forget BATS and VAMPIRES are the RAGE these days..>Hollyood or in the HOOD…

    Hillary was obviously held back from Human Rights Issues in China…She is a Lady on a Leash..and sadly is being used to enable the FABLE..

    Fine..Let OBAMA take ALL the Credit…for this Fickle Fingered Fiasco..He is a LEGEND in His Own Mind..and I wouldn’t want to be Part of Pickle Party..

    • elise

      Patrick Henry, it’s too bad you feel that way, because to me, she is the only light in this country right now. I wish she were president, making the important decisions in the economy, health care and foreign policy, but she isn’t and I suppose it depends on how much one trusts her to be her own person even under restraints which may be imposed on her. If she can successfully negociate with Russia, Iran, China, Israel and Palestine as well as allies, it will be her triumph whether or not she is given public recognition.

  • EWard

    Rev. Amy

    Amen to your article!

    Future Headlines…..

    Obama’s Economics Morphs into Ponzi Scheme

    401ks Tumble While Obama Concocts 100th Economic Summit

    Obama’s Rationed Health Care Nightmare

    Hope and Change Rejected by Voters

    Nation Fears Obama Economics

    • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

      Thanks, EWard. And I fear your headlines may be prophetic.

      As for Hillary being in Brussels, that’s just the point – that the meeting wasn’t even held at a time she could attend. There is no doubt that she is doing the best job she can (under the circumstances), but this has LONG been her issue. Just saying, she should have been involved…

      • b mathews

        if hillary had not led on healthcare for many years and given it so much attention during the primaries, obama wouldnt be pushing it now. he only wants to take credit for it but most of us will remember this is hillarys baby.

  • Fae

    Obama is a thug. I pray everyday and night that someone brings the truth out about how bad he is. He is out to destroy America. Be very afraid of this demon.

  • Liberty Belle not for Obama

    I caught some of the network/cable evening news shows, and heard the put-down of “not making mistakes the Clinton’s did”, i.e., harkening back to 1993, and footage of HRC as First Lady, saying their plan was “done behind closed doors” and was “full of mandates”. (Believe specifically, it was CBS and CNN). Felt disgusted, sickened, especially knowing the MSM spin could have come directly from the Obama White House.

    Ironically, after showing the “failed Clinton Health Care initiative”, they had footage of Hillary in Brussels, but no sound bite – typical – minimizing and slamming her. (At least that’s the best I can recall for now, as I had to run to a study group.)

    Excuse me – Are they saying Ted Kennedy has always been successful with health care reform? I’d heard that Hillary was told any health care program credit was going to be Teddy’s claim to fame in the Obama Administration, before he dies, and she could take a back seat. Ditto for what you all heard? Bet that shove to the side made the SOS job more attractive for her.

    Why was it that last year, Hillary Campaign volunteers in PA for the primary were told by pharmaceutical industry employees that they “can’t even talk to you”, for fear they would lose their jobs for supporting Hillary? At least, that’s the first hand account I heard.

    I’m totally disgusted with the Obama team, and the MSM, portraying and blaming HRC for no health care reform. And what about the frigging industries, Congress members and lobbyists who blocked it in /93, and ever since? Scant mention of their role. Damned!

    • James

      Rahm Emanuel actually had more control over the health care plans in the early 90′s than HRC. Little known fact the media doesn’t let anyone know. Hillary dealt with the policy details, it was Rahm’s job to come up with the political strategy. He failed. Of course the millions of dollars spent by the special interests didn’t help much, but it’s silly to blame Clinton for the health care failure when there were so many forces, internal and external, working to kill the idea.

      • Liberty Belle not for Obama

        James, thanks for letting us in on the Rahm Emanuel role. I kind of wondered if some of the former Clinton team turncoats to Obama are doing some of the spin against Hillary, and not owning up to their own. Agree, it’s silly to blame Clinton, but damned if they aren’t trying to do so.

  • cathnealon

    Just think about it–we are living through the most complex changes our country has faced in a long, long time probably since the Civil War and who do we have leading the charge? A teleprompter with speeches on it written by a 27 year old frat boy. Because believe me BO is reading his way through this presidency–the people that funded this disaster are out for one thing, centralized government that is run by them to control everything–healthcare, banks, industry, education, unions, the press and a complete overhaul, Chicago style, of the Constitution. We needed a real leader, a wise, decisive pit bull and look at what we got–pray for a miracle because we need it.

  • diane

    $2 TRILLION GONE!
    Federal Reserve says they are not subject to FOIA!
    http://www.poorrichardsalmanac.biz
    DEMAND ANSWERS!

  • danny

    Obamaspaz has nothing to offer in real change to health care. It seems to me once more he’s all hat and no cattle.

  • cathnealon

    These issues like healthcare are complex, in fact we are living through the most challenging time in our country probably since the Civil War. And who do we have as our leader? A teleprompter with speeches written on it by a 27 year old frat boy. BO is reading his way through this presidency and the people that funded this disaster are after the centralization of government, the control of everything, healthcare, education, banks, industry, unions, the press and a complete overhaul of the Constitution Chicago-style.

  • nancy

    $2 TRILLION VANISHES!
    FEDERAL RESERVE REFUSES TO REVEAL WHO GOT THE MONEY! CLAIMS “TRADE SEDRETS!”
    DEMAND ANSWERS!
    http://www.poorrichardsalmanac.biz

  • steel magnolia

    Off topic, but did anyone hear this?

    http://tinyurl.com/d3ghc5

    Now that That One has a Democrat Commerce Secretary, he decided that the 2010 census would be managed by the Commerce Department and not directly by the White House like they were going to do when Judd Gregg was the pick (you know, that Republican that you wanted to head the department to show how bipartisan you were, but who you couldn’t trust to manipulate the census findings for you).

  • MrMike

    When the Harry and Louise ads were shredding the Clinton proposal the Democrats as usual were soiling their depends in abject cowardice.
    The Big Three are crying about the cost added to each car to fund their retiree health care obligations. I feel no sympathy for them because they jettisoned support for Hillary’s plan when the going got rough.

  • lark

    Look Hillary’s or anybody’s plan, a health care system that has no competition can only be tempered or restrained by rationing. There is no other way that an uncompetitive system can control skyrocketing rise in prices.

    Once the system is under the governments hands, the insurance companies will care less about restraining cost since all they need to do is to name their fees. The whole system will collapse unless services are rationed. So okay, lets have it socialized and lets wait in line to be given a ticket with a number to punch so that a return call could be scheduled so that an appointment clerk can check if we are illegible to be scheduled at that hospital or if we need to go back in line to get a ticket with a number to punch so that a return call could be schedule so that an appointment clerk can check if we are ellegible be scheduled at that other hospital. Be happy. You want it that way, then enjoy it when it arrives.

    • elise

      Lark, I wish you would take a look at Hillary’s plan if it’s still on the Internet. There would have been no difference in the competition since coverage would have been provided by existing insurance companies. I’m sure you won’t bother and I’ve wasted too many words on people who are so set in their ideas, they aren’t willing to examine anything which contradicts preconceived notions. If it offers any comfort, I believe Obama is putting on a show and I have never believed he was committed to health care.

      • Serf Nation

        As one who deals with the gov sponsored Medicare RX drug program, I can tell you that it is awful. It is provided by existing insurance companies who are subsidized by the gov but also paid a monthly premium by the insured.

        We were forced to join when eligible or be charged a monthly penalty if joining at a later date. The premium and co-pays have gone up every year. There are a lot of restrictions on the drugs we’re allowed to use and if we choose to pay for a drug that is not covered, we are penalized. They can change their list of covered drugs any time they want. The newer drugs are usually not covered. The more expensive drugs are not covered, even when a generic is not available. There have been times that a drug I used which was the lowest copay and was an inexpensive drug was taken off the covered list and I was told to use a different, more expensive drug – made no business sense at all.

        The answer to our out of control health care system is to get the money handouts, bribes, and lobbyists out of Washington. Stop re-electing the same people – or better yet, set term limits. Allow more competition between drug companies, insurance companies, medical equipment companies, and other providers. Stop giving drug, insurance, medical equipment providers special treatments and protections.

        • elise

          Although I agree with many points you made, there are things Washington can do, suggested in Hillary’s plan. Allow Medicare and Medicaid to negotiate the price of drugs and import cheaper drugs from other countries. Revise the medical malpractice requiring the medical association to review license of doctors and nurses and make complaints a matter of public records and making frivolous lawsuits more difficult to file. Eliminate double charging by hospitals. HMOs and PPOs have been a disaster for patients and medical providers. Mandated insurance eliminates hospital (and taxpayer) debts for patients who show up at an emergency room with no insurance. With the state of the present economy, it’s difficult to justify spending $700bil right now, but that is a relatively small amount of the budget especially compared to the Defense Budget. It is immoral for a country like the US to have citizens dying for lack of care and that isn’t a hollow statement. It happens too often. My husband’s company changed the coverage a few months ago and we had to purchase a COLB policy to cover the period between coverage. It was very expensive, their paperwork was messed up and we ended up paying several hundred dollars which we are still arguing with them about. Under Hillary’s plan, COLB isn’t necessary since the insurance would be required to continue through any kinds of changes and the preimums would have been based on ability to pay. As Amy said, Hillary understands these issues better than anyone in Washington and it is a shame she hasn’t been included in the planning stages.

          • lark

            the preimums would have been based on ability to pay

            Explain that. Premium based on ability to pay.

            Elise, you may never understand that competition is what allows choice. That means that some competitors choose to serve different market segments. One market segment are those who can’t pay high premiums. How are they served? There are hundreds of companies with ideas. But today, each state controls the offers to that state and insurance companies are locked to too limited of a segment to make money. Why? Because groups create preferences.

        • lark

          Allow more competition

          The Hillary crowd here still have very strong feelings about the Hillary plan. But the Hillary plan had a big problem with competition. When McCain introduced his plan during the debates and in his campaign the media, the industry and the Democratic thinking that socializing everything is the answer, dismissed his plan for increasing competition among all actors. He wanted to open access to health care plans across state lines. People rejected by voting for Obama.

          Lets socialize everything and live by asking first and begging later. And then die wanting.

      • lark

        they aren’t willing to examine anything which contradicts preconceived notions

        Elise, I have listened to Hillary’s plan. I was not against her plan but you cannot have universal health insurance work unless the population becomes universal too. Groups, specially employer’s groups, group people of like kind and raises the cost exponentially. Our problem with health insurance is only because of employer’s groups. Employers mostly employ people of like kinds, usually young healthy individuals (by enlarge). Hillary’s plan will also crash except it sounds better and will last longer, but will in due time crash.

        I believe in universal insurance, but groups have to end. We need universal insurance under one group, the entire population. Capisce? Try to understand.

    • BlueTopaz

      wait in line to be given a ticket with a number to punch so that a return call could be scheduled so that an appointment clerk can check if we are illegible to be scheduled at that hospital or if we need to go back in line to get a ticket with a number to punch so that a return call could be schedule so that an appointment clerk can check if we are ellegible be scheduled at that other hospital

      What country does this? Propagandistan?

  • Patience

    I could be wrong but why do I suspect that the Shakedown Artist In Chief will make out like a bandit when it comes to healthcare reform?

    One thing I fear is that those of us middle-class people who would be willing and fortunately able to supplement basic universal and [likely] rationed healthcare won’t have the option because this administration stokes the fires of class warfare, while at the same time winking at his wealthy benefactors — I’m thinking of the reportedly-loopholed provision for financial sector bonus caps, as an example. I’m worried that everyone (except the very rich of course) will be forced to accept the lowest common denominator in order to prevent some people from enjoying a higher level of care than others (Heavens Forbid!).

    Maybe my fear is unjustified but so far, the more the POTUS says and does, the less confidence I have. He and I just don’t have the same notion of fairness.

  • Serf Nation

    Nationalized, socialized or whatever you want to call it – it will never be what the average citizen proponent envisions and is told it will be.

    For example, computerizing records into a national data base has been held up as some sort of wonderful solution that will save so much money and get rid of all the errors due to bad charting. A national data base is a recipe for lots of trouble for providers and patients. Consider this:

    Nurses spend hours entering data into computers, trying to make the patient’s condition fit into the list of descriptors on the screen – every patient’s condition must fit one of the listed predetermined models. Computerized records don’t allow describing individualized needs or care.

    There are tons of regulations now and no doubt many more with nationalized care from both state and fed that must be met in the charting. It takes time to fill all the requirements. (remember we’re talking about government forms!)

    Regulators and the high-and-mighty (usually non-medical people) who determine what care will be allowed and/or covered will make those decisions based on the computerized records.

    Hippa laws placed stringent regulations on patients privacy rights – patients are given and referred to by numbers. All diagnoses, coverage, procedures, equipment, etc are referred to by numbers.

    Imagine paper records in a hospital or dr. office – many are 4-5 in. thick. Records – even though stored in computers -will be lengthy and from diverse sources. Also, remember that computer records are only as accurate as the info entered into the computer.

    Now imagine 300 million records.

    Now imagine that someone accidently transposes an important identifying number that results in the use of the wrong record or wrong diagnosis- either during an emergency or while working on pre-approval coverage.

    Have you ever tried to get a correction made on a charge account? That is a piece of cake compared to what a problem with a computerized record mistake would be. The latter has to do with your health and possibly your life.

    As far as I know, in my small citiy all the dr and clinics and hospitals have their records computerized and it is handy for dr to be able download lab reports, and for basic info to be brought up within medical groups.

    But this is a nation of 300 million people. I once used a pharmacy that gave me a very strong cardiac drug instead of the drug I was supposed to have. If I had not realized it and had taken it, I would have likely died. The “reason” it happened was that there were 3 other people who used that pharmacy who had the same name as I. That pharmacy was a national chain with computerized records.

    I did a search for companies that offer software for computerized records. There is especially one that has been preparing to provide nationalized software and support and has been lobbying for a number of years already. My guess is that with a little effort you could find some close relationships between them and a few select congresspersons.

    This step alone will take a great deal of time, besides that there are many areas of the country that don’t even have online access yet. All I see with the computerized step is another layer of bureaucracy and more opportunities for government wasteful spending, errors, and fraud.

    Not long ago people were screaming at the thought of putting gps into cars for taxing mileage instead of gas because of the privacy issue. Anyone who thinks our healthcare records won’t be abused or that there is not a good chance of discrimination against people with certain conditions is living in a fairy world.

    People have got to remember that the same system of government bureacracy will run health care as runs all the other dept now. Nationalizing it is not the answer. Getting the corruption out of it is.

    • MrMike

      A government bureaucracy runs Social Securtiy, how’s your 401k or other retirement investments doing?
      Funny thing, Americans working abroad eligible for the host country’s health care program seem to love it from their posts on other forums I read.
      Health care in the U S in rationed, only those that can pay get certain procedures.
      A friend in Canada is losing his job due to the downturn in the auto industry and is losing his insurance, from now on he will have to pay of eye glasses and dental exams.

  • Diana

    I hate to say this, but I don’t see anything wrong with her not being there. I don’t want her blamed for any of the messes he creates. From another article on here it looks like he’s already created two foreign messes she must now clean up. She’s not his maid. As far as I am concerned he stole ENOUGH of her idea’s during the primary. It is SHE who should have been Potus. She is not, he wanted to run the show. He has it now, let him do so on his own idea’s. Not her’s. She’s already doing her job, if he needs her to do his entire job. He needs to step down. Period.

    • b mathews

      now we understand why he appointed her SoS…so he can say SoS hillary!!!!

  • Tuppence411

    What I love about Hillary is she is constantly learning, expanding, improving. She hasn’t sat on her ass since the 90′s and dug in her heels to an old vision of health care reform.
    (Unlike Kennedy and Daschle!) No she kept working, kept learning, kept improving. Her current plan is the BEST out there, born from decades of advocacy and learned study.

    Health care in this country needs to be universal, it does not need to be single-payer. Real cost savings can come from increased efficency. We don’t need to resort to rationing.

  • Ginger

    Good Morning Rev Amy!

    The best thing about insurance is that you don’t get stuck w/ the whole whopper of a bill. There are caps.

    Yes, Hillary should be in on the negotiations.

    I read, though, that Obama is willing to compromise on healthcare reform. That must mean to take it off the stove all together for a while. Let it cool down. Fix other more looming concerns (or,make em worse). Then, come back to it later.

    I do not dispute that healthcare costs are escalating and have been for quite some time. If you have insurance, you are paying for someone else whenever you or your family member checks into a hospital.

    I would like to see some kind of system where it’s not free health insurance. If you are not currently covered, you have the opportunity to buy into it. It’s insurance based on income for those not covered or under-insured by employers.

    http://healthinsurance.about.com/od/healthinsurancebasics/a/clintonreform.htm

  • Ginger

    My comment is lost. :(

    • lark

      Awful. But if your intention was to improve the present then your energy will empower many.

  • Madison

    The Crash of 2009 Is COMING To YOU

    We taped this at the CPAC-Team Sarah Reception! We are sending it to the Governor’s office. (thanks to O.P. Ditch for posting!)

    Find more videos like this on Team Sarah

    Find more videos like this on Team Sarah

    http://www.teamsarah.org/video/video

  • Donna and Jack

    Hillary is being used by her own democrat party as she was in the election.For we all saw what the democratic party did to her as well as Sarah Palin…oh,let’s not leave out the media is the wrong doing to Hillary and Sarah Palin ! Hillary will only be allowed to do what she is told to do and say. As the Media will only report hillary this and that..well it’s the FRAUD OBAMA who will come alone and blame all on Hillary when it’s him behind the sences again doing this,as he all ways have. He makes me sick…I want the vital long form birth certificate ! He is a fraud.and never a president here in USA ..NOT MY PRESIDENT !! EVER !!!!

    FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY PEOPLE ..WE ARE IN A FIGHT FOR OUR LIVES AND TO SAVE AMERICA FROM THIS FRAUD ! AND THE OTHERS WHO ARE TRYING TO DESTORY IT..DO NOT SIT DOWN,DO NOT SHUT UP ! GET ON BOARD ON ALL BLOGS ! FIGHT THIS FRAUD AND NANCY PELSOI WHO IS ALSO THE PUSHER THAT IS DESTORYING OUR COUNTRY !KEEP SENDING INFORMATION TO YOUR SENATOR-CONGRESS-FBI-GOV- SEND TO THE PEOPLE.GET OUT THERE A TALK TALK TALK..JOIN UP FOR ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THAT WILL HELP FIGHT THIS FRAUD AND TO GET IT OUT !! OUR COUNTRY IS AT RISK.WELL, IT IS NOW AT IT’S POINT TO FALL.AND OBAMA IS DOING THIS TO MAKE IT FALL AS GM OBAMA WAS ON THE BOARD WITH, AT ONE POINT.OBAMA FOUND BOARDS TO SIT ON JUST TO GET HIS AGENDA GOING ! AND NOW LOOK WHAT HE HAS DONE.HE IS HERE FOR HIS AGENDA-FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY-FIGHT FOR AMERICA-FIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE FIGHTING GET WITH THEM-FIGHT FOR YOUR CHILDREN- FRIGHT FOR YOUR EIGHT’S-FIGHT FOR OUR CONSTUTTIONS- DON’T SIT ! HELP……… DON’T LAY DOWN..GET OUT THERE.. !!!!!! IT’S OUR ONLY CHANCE TO..DON’T LET THIS FRAUD TAKE OVER OUR COUNTRY !

  • Donna and Jack

    This is life & death folks

    I won’t back down

    ALL EYES ON ME-HERE IS WHO OUR COUNTRY NEEDS ! Why…she is great and anyone in the democrat party even if it’s Hillary..they will fight buck Hillary..I am independent which means for for country not the party, in this case the democtaic party can go to hell ! Sarah Palin 2012

  • lark

    To you is Hillary but to me is McCain.

  • http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/01/25/political-wimps-and-cowards-whining-about-guantanamo-terrorists/#more-12310 marie

    We already have a model for universal care: Medicare. Why couldn’t there be appropriate modifications to include all ages. Basic healthcare could be offered and those who wish to add on benefits could buy supplemental insurance as nearly all seniors do right now. For those who could not afford supplemental, the government could subsidize.