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Stem Cells and the Devil Hiding in the Details

By Pat Racimora on March 8, 2009 at 6:00 PM in Barack Obama, Executive Orders, Stem Cell Research

It appears that President Obama is finally going to make good on his campaign promise to lift the restrictions on stem cell research for federally funded projects. Monday may be the day when President Bush’s Executive Order will be reversed. In the meantime a little Devil called the Dickey-Wicker Amendment could toss a monkey wrench into the mix.

It’s a complicated story, but basically the amendment banning federal fund use for embryonic stem cell research was attached as a rider to the 1996 appropriations bill for the Department of Health and Human Services. Congress has continually renewed some version of the ban. The only human embryo research currently conducted is in the private sector. (For more detail on the complex politics of stem cell research see here and here .)

So even if the President signs a new Executive Order will that little devil drag it down?

Democratic Representative Diana DeGette of Colorado is paying attention. She believes that Congress will approve a bill that would make Obama’s executive order law. This would make it more difficult for future administrations to oppose the use of stem cells. (Executive orders can pass back-and-forth like 4 years per move chess games.) But what about the Dickey-Wicker amendment? Can it just be dumped? Not if the “culture of life” legislators have anything to say about it.

In the meantime, some of our leading stem cell researchers are at NIH, and top experts at other sites depend on federal grants to implement their promising projects. They don’t want to wait another day.

Stay tuned!

Doc99

Is the inevitable “Embryo Czar” far away?

Ferd Berfle

Too many more of these and we’ll need a Czar Czar, a lucky number program to tell one from the other, and a babysitter for Bawacky.

Stan Davis

Congress has already been there and done that. The House has a Committee on Committees (at least it used to).

Thanks for mentioning Diana Degette (CO-01). While not exactly the most dynamic or charismatic congressperson in the world, she’s passionate about this subject, as is my own Colorado Congressman Ed Perlmutter (CO-07). He has an epileptic daughter, and stem cell research may be critical in managing that disease.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO

Gwen S.

Teeth Can Yield Stem Cells, Scientists Say
Amitabh Avasthi
for National Geographic News
August 27, 2008

Dental pulp from wisdom teeth could be a new source of therapeutic stem cells, Japanese researchers announced recently.

Like embryonic stem cells, the new cells—known as mesenchymal stem cells—are capable of developing into a variety of tissues, including bone, cartilage, and fat. These new lines of stem cells can be created without the use of an embryo—possibly sidestepping controversy.

http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/03/08/stem-cells-and-the-devil-hiding-in-the-details/
Diana L. C.

And though not as “dynamic,” she is doing a good job filling the seat once held by my favorite Colorado politician of all time: Pat Schroeder!

Linda Anselmi

It is amazing how our government employees can manage to muck up just about anything. One would hope some day, some where some government official will stop treating government as a game and realize they are playing with american lives.

Ferd Berfle

I work with some of those jokers on a daily basis. While most government employees are diligent and go about their work professionally, a great many suffer from the rice-bowl syndrome, or worse, fiefdom-building. Those are the ones you stay far away from.

Linda C.

Ferd
The best way to get rid of the fiefdom builders meddling is to call them on the off tour for orders or gaining “permission” to do the obvious. It worked every single time.

Ferd Berfle

gaining “permission” to do the obvious

LMAO. Yep. Malicious compliance works in a pinch, too.

Linda Anselmi

By the way -AWESOME TOON PAT!!!

Do stem cells really look that cool?

Doc99

Sure!

lark

Nice colors. I wonder if those colors of the cell signify anything? Blues, reds, greens, yellows, and black in between them. That’s all I would like to know, what the colors signify?

Chris Martin

Colors probably don’t mean much other than the dark (i.e. black). If it’s a fluorescent image then the color scheme is arbitrary.

If Pat sent me info on the cell pics I could probably provide you with more info on what you are seeing.

Pat Racimora

ACTUALLY, I drew those cells–it is art. I used Photoshop lighting effects to make them shine like that.

However, I looked at a number of images before doing it. Those are created as Chris described.

lark

Forget the stem cells. How about the devil? Does the devil looks that cool too?

Pat Racimora

I forgot his tail! It’s not cool without a tail!

Kim

It’s about time we got stem cell research going again, in a way that will effect some real treatments and cures. I have always contended that while conservatives have been the biggest roadblock to stem cell research, they would be the first in line for any treatments and cures that came about as a result of it.

Ferd Berfle

they would be the first in line for any treatments and cures that came about as a result of it.

Just like some of the prohibitionists were the biggest closet-boozers.

Chris Martin

Ha. For some reason Ted Haggard also comes to mind.

Ferd Berfle

LOL. I hadn’t thought of him and the analogy actually works better in this instance.

lark

But of course, I’m sure they will like to have much more time living so that they can have much more time to praise the Lord. Except all those praises may not amount to much to the Lord.

JulieD

a little Devil called the Dickey-Wicker Amendment

Geez Pat-

Aren’t Dickey-Wickers always little devils?

It amazes me that helping people from a life of interminable suffering is something some Christians get all bent out of shape over.

It’s like many Dems not really wanting to solve problems because the people might not NEED govt for handouts anymore. Just keep folks dependent.

No teaching a man to fish there.

I’m typing and handling snakes right now. And no anti-venom for me. That would be cheating.

Just throw money!

Linda Anselmi

Aren’t Dickey-Wickers always little devils?

Good Point!
http://noliinsipientiuminiuriaspati.blogspot.com/ adagioforstrings

re: JulieD : It amazes me that helping people from a life of interminable suffering is something some Christians get all bent out of shape over.

I’m ambivalent about stem cell research. Will it be limited to embryonic stem cells (1st -2nd trimester), fetal stem cells (3rd trimester)? It’s akin to grinding up babies to help adults & seems close to Jonathan Swift’s Modest Proposal

Pat Racimora

adagioforstrings, that assumes a slippery slope. I don’t expect it. Science is so well regulated now with strong ethical requirements and a powerful agency to uphold them (The Office of Research Integrity). I worry far more about other countries with more lax standards.

lark

The Office of Research Integrity

That sounds laughable. Maybe we can think of another name.
andrew191

Science regulated with strong ethical requirements? Would that explain Octomom?

Pat Racimora

The ORI regulates ONLY federally funded research, which is what this post is all about.

Octomom’s doctor was a private rougue.

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

Oh how excitingly perverse that sounds! Oh how thrilling it is to be evil and live at the expense of another.

What have you people become…nothing but animals…smart animals but animals (not the cute fluffy ones) nevertheless.
lark

Jonathan Swift’s Modest Proposal

Good stuff. Very appropriate to the subject. Thanks.
Chris Martin

The most important stem cells are those right at the beginning, those are the ones that divide into every other kind of cell under the proper conditions. There is little possibility that academic researchers will be using ESCs from late development periods.

A fetus is a large collection of different types of cells. What are important for stem cells is that they are individual cells capable of differentiating. It does little good to have an entire fetus worth of cells, you want individual cells.

lark

The most important stem cells are those right at the beginning

Do you mean when the humanity of its humanity is at its most essential essence of its essence and when its soul is totally filled?

andrew191

Good question Lark. Who’s qualified to answer?

ladydawn

God (Nature, life, goddess, what ever omnipotence you ascribe to) doesn’t waste souls. (imo)

I am a believer in the quickening (3-4 months)

The less they know the more they rant and try to equalize everything GOD would do as if human.

NOT

JozefAL

Let’s see. Which is more reasonable for unwanted frozen embryos sitting around in fertility clinics? Use them for medical research as supplies of stem cells or just toss them in the trash?
Personally, I support the stem cell/medical research option but (not too surprisingly) there are some who would rather have the embryos thrown out just so they have a new “cause” to support. Yep we’d then get the “look at the evil scientists–throwing human beings into the trash (of course, we didn’t leave them any option since the donors don’t want the embryos back and they’ve passed their “use-by” date but we couldn’t allow them to use the embryos for anything else but let’s not mention that or no one will send us money for The Cause)” nutjobs.

Ferd Berfle

Aren’t Dickey-Wickers always little devils?

That would be Whacker and not Wicker, but I digress.
Pat Racimora

JulieD said,

Aren’t Dickey-Wickers always little devils?

ROFLOL!!!

JohnnyB

Pat, nice looking stems.

Just have the Dems attach to the next big bank bailout bill, language that would cancel out the D-W language and approve the use of Fed Funds for Stem Cell Research. Banks for Cells. A horse-trade.

Pat Racimora

Ya think? That might work!

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

Can someone tell me the difference between embrionic cell use and the harvesting of organs from a fetus? Or are you fanatics for that as well? Perhaps kill newborns or toddlers while you’re at it! Why not clone ourselves for that purpose while we’re at it.

BTW the koreans found a way to not use embryoinic cell but regular pluripotent cells from marrow….thats not good enough though…not evil enough eh? If we just used the Korean technology these fame crazed american scientists wouldn’t get their spotlight and enormous funding eh?

Ferd Berfle

This is not as black-and-white an issue as your comment would seem to indicate. There are many divergent views on this issue, so the use of term fanatic is probably out of place in this discussion.

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

what the hell are you talking about?! I didn’t say a damn thing about race you bone head. Can’t you read?

Ferd Berfle

Are you functionally illiterate or just too busy trying to cram your ill-considered opinion down everyone’s throats?

I won’t await your response as I have better things to do like watch paint dry.

TeakwoodKite

Ferd, it drys better with the lights off.

Since you painted them white….

And while you wait, In Memory of Elizabeth Reed

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

Fanatic is a perfect term…why else would you push for something so disgusting when not necessary?
FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

oh and would it be too much to expect you to answer my question? What’s the difference between embryo, fetus, baby, toddler?

http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

Do you support invitro fertilization? surrogacy?
JulieD

A petri dish in a refrigerator/
an incubator in a hospital wing/
a crib in a nursery/
locked in a closet – just joking right – really – nap mat at daycare
Obamastolemyboyfriend

I suppose you voted for Obama? He left newborns on dirty linen room shelves to die if they survived an abortion. Maybe you should talk to Obama the baby killer about evil!

Pat Racimora

“Fetus” is reserved for much further along developmentally.

I do understand how and why people are concerned about slippery slopes, but I don’t expect it to happen in this country. I also visited a stem cell lab recently where efforts to find equally transposable cells are taking place.

There is so much suffering in children and adults that cells doomed for destruction anyway may have an answer for. I am extremely impressed with both the skill and the ethics of the stem cell researchers I have met.

Ferd Berfle

Thank you for your comment. This is a touchy subject but one that needs a full airing without the perfunctory name-calling that always seems to accompany any discussion of this issue.
FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

MUCH further you say…oh 2 months…oooo. I see what a great excuse exept that we kill fetuses too these days if you didn’t notice?

Pat Racimora

You asked for the differnce and I was trying to politely respond

Abortion is a whole other matter.

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

not at all buddy…both procedures kill live creature…it that that not the point?
FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

Killing of the creatures is the whole source of contention to begin with. How can you possible call yourself intelligent and not see the correlary of my point?

http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

the stem cells are either going to be thrown away or used for research.

which option is more humane?

lark

Excellent question since their souls would have been harvested already.

TeakwoodKite

No that is a real interesting of pre-determinisism, Lark.

Which came first the soul or the embryo?

If the former, it would be a “sin” to thow them away, if the latter then then a soul is in need of a portal. The Nefilim perhaps on the later?
mmmm…

TeakwoodKite

Now that is a real interesting point of pre-determinisism, Lark.

lark

It is. Good point.

If I was a pure postmodern I would say “Both”, but since I am not a pure postmodern that answer is invalid.

The answer is found within your thought. It is “In-filling.”

Ay caramba.

lark

I think I’m going to buy that book.

TeakwoodKite

A very absorbing read.

Take from it what you will.

http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

What do you mean here? (sincerely)

Ferd Berfle

Well, FREEDOM_IS_DEAD, here’s an opportunity for you to make a contribution to society and put your money where your flapping jib is:

Collect all the embryos worldwide that are going to be disposed of or otherwise maintained in limbo for eternity; find the number of willing women necessary for implantation; and raise the children created as your own. If you’re going to be so dogmatic about all this, at least have the logical consistency to volunteer to do this great act for humanity.

You won’t?

I didn’t think so.

lark

God is probably impressed too, but justice may not allow for a change in verdict. Whole countries have been known to go to hell. I said whole.
FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

and what about the fact that Koreans can do it without using them is beside the point eh? That rains on your killing parade eh?

Pat Racimora

Freedom_is_dead

Please stop with the insults. There are LOTS of ways to get stem cells–we have know that for a long while. But there are reasons why embronic stem cells are superior.

I would also like to know whose research you are referring to. The biggest stem cell fraud came out of Korea.

But finally, I respect people’s right to have negative opinions about stem cell research. What I don’t respect is ugly name-calling. I would not do that to you.

lark

there are reasons why

There are reasons why for everything. Some have many reasons. There is a reason why when you drew your cartoon you drew a devil in it, no? But you probably were not aware of the reason at the time, just that a devil would symbolize that the legislation could prevent the purpose and efforts of those who seek unbridled supply of humanity in the making. But is there in red. And I thank you for the reminder.
FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

Their research had nothing to do with stem cell BTW….And you look it up. Its in the 2008 Wall Street Journal. Of course the MSM would never cover that so I don’t blame you for your ignorance on the subject.

JozefAL

Would you care to be a LITTLE more specific? The Wall Street Journal happens to come out FIVE times a week (except for weeks with official business holidays), 52 weeks a year. On average, there are about 250 issues of the Wall Street Journal per year (and “2008″ is a YEAR).
And, um, you DO realize that the Wall Street Journal is PART of the MSM? (MSM = Main Stream Media).
Are you positive that it’s “freedom” that’s dead and not just your brain cells?

lark

So even if the President signs a new Executive Order will that little devil drag it down?

I hope so. God may not have mercy on my soul. He may dump me with the rest of my compatriots in hell.
FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

What the hell are you talking about!? I didn’t say anything about race you bonehead.

Ferd Berfle

If you are referring to my comment to you, by black-and-white, I meant that YOU were not understanding that there are shades of gray in this issue. You might try re-reading my comment prior to making any further responses.

And I wouldn’t be tossing around the word bonehead, while making such comments if I were you.

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

OK OK sorry….I responded to quickly to the black-white issue. But you progressives love dwelling in the grey area nothing is ever black or white when it comes to issues of human life to you guys; I guess its the progressives Eugenics breeding you got while growing up. The fact is though that when it comes to right and wrong there is NO grey…only will you do it or not….and if you do will it result in death and destruction, and abuse in the future.

BTW if you love the grey zone so much why do you get upset when a guy like Bush dwells in the grey zone of right and wrong….suddenly everything becomes absolute for you when your political views are at stake.

Let me get this right you people have the absolute monopoly on what right and wrong is…and you hate when we “crazy” god fearing people impose our morality on you but push it down our throats when it suits you or makes you money. Do you see the hypocrisy and the tyrrany. In this case of stem cells, we’re not even telling you to do someting wrong….but just to leave our beloved “nature” alone the way it was intended to be. That is what you rabid environmentalist preach no?…envornmental purity and devoid of human meddling no?

SO LIVE BY YOUR CANON!!!! Or stop pretending you have ANY moral superiority over anyone. YOU HYPOCRITES.

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

BTW…lets say for every embryo destroyed I would cut down one your precious TREES….Is that ok….I NEED IT TO BUILD A HOME AND FURNITURE AFTER ALL!

Let me guess…your trees are more important that human life…agian.
http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

“leave our beloved “nature” alone the way it was intended to be.”

I asked earlier, I will ask again – do you support invitro fertilization, and surrogacy?

If you get cancer, do you want to be treated? If you get alzheimers, would you wish there was a cure?

If you get hit by a car, do you want bystanders to just let you die?

If your family member is injured, and needs temporary life support, do you deny them the treatment?

Stem cells are either thrown away, or used for research to cure disease, like diabetes, alzheimers, MS, etc. diseases that ravage mind and body. Which is more humane?

Ferd Berfle

I concur with your sentiments, AGII.

Thank you for your commitment to your fellow human being.

Ferd
FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

Of course I do…just don’t use future humans as guinea pigs in research for the cures. In vitro BTW has the intent to propogate life, not kill it.

And so I don’t believe in organ transplant either…because the action of do it incurs ugliness and savagery….see what china does to its prisoners to harvest organs…or what kind of stupid checklist we create favouring one human life over another. That is ugly.

But hey you want it you got it Toyota…have fun living in Orwells 1984 etc…you’ll have only yourselve to blame for it.

BTW I respect your opinion enormously AGII, so don’t get me wrong…I’m not trying to be nasty. This subject scares the crap out of me and I just cannot understand why anyone can’t see the dangers of this….that scares me even more.

http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

You said, “leave our beloved “nature” alone the way it was intended to be.”

All of those questions I asked you go against *nature*. If you are *for* invitro, and surrogacy – which involve the creation of stem cells, then I am confused as to your HUGE objection to stem cell research. Unused stem cells are tossed in the trash. Every invitro procedure produces discarded stem cells, whether through cells that didn’t attach, or extras that are not needed.

Invitro and surrogacy go against nature. Doctors who perform invitro are playing god. And you approve of the practice. Don’t you think that doctors used stem cells as guinee pigs when they were developing invitro? How many cells do you think were detstroyed, or not effective, while developing the practice?

But, you are drawing the line at what we can do with those discarded stem cells. You prefer that they are thrown away, instead of being used to cure alzheimers. A disease that you might very well develop. It is an ugly disease, I know, I watched my grandmother whither away, for over a decade.

Attaching someone to life support is playing god, and is going against nature.

“or what kind of stupid checklist we create favouring one human life over another.”

But, isn’t that what you are doing, favoring the life of a stem cell, to the potential cure of life threatening disease, demenetia, paralysis…the quality of life of millions?

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

Perhaps you misunderstood my point…I’m bringing up “nature” to make a point in language you guys understand and love refering to when it suits you (ie you do get all wound up whenever an animal such as an owl seems to suffer under human pressure no? or global warming, or when we displace them etc). So if human manipulation is so evil…that same rational should apply then to stem cells. But somehow it doesn’t…THAT’S my point!!!

I personally don’t always agree keeping things natural…I believe in all good science that doesn’t kill with human life….I don’t believe that “experts” are capable to doing the right thing in any such circumstance…I don’t trust them in the least.

http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

where are you getting this notion that i favor animal and tree life over humans, that i am a *save the owls* person?

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

Point missed again!

http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

“I’m bringing up “nature” to make a point in language you guys understand and love refering to when it suits you (ie you do get all wound up whenever an animal such as an owl seems to suffer under human pressure no? or global warming, or…”

How did I miss your point here? Are you not talking to me?

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

You miss my point completely!

You progressive rant and rave about the sanctitiy of animal and plant life being defiled on a daily basis but when it comes to that of the human life you suddenly have no compuction to destroy it…..that’s my point. Your arguments (all progressives not just yours) are hypocritical, felacious, and inconsistent.

In my view, you can do whatever you want based on science to a sentient adult human, as long as their OK with it, but to play god with nature when you know fully the atrocities that await as a result of it, is pure negligence, inhumanity, and evil. Go ahead do research on non viable cells, animals whatever…but to destroy future human beings…that’s out of bounds not solely because of the actual act but mostly because this line of science will yield far more evil that good…even to sentient adults. There will be a price to pay…there is already.
FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

I think you miss my point entirely AGII.

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

You progressives rant endlessly about the sanctitiy of animal and plant life being defiled by humans but when it comes to that of the human life you suddenly have no compuction to destroy it…..that’s my point. Your arguments (all progressives not just yours) are hypocritical, felacious, and inconsistent.

http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

are you talking to me here? You can’t be, because that does not describe me AT ALL.
http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

You keep telling me i am missing your point, and then you make the above comments. Those comments have NOTHING to do with me, or ANYTHING i have ever said… how could I be *catching* your point, when it doesn’t have anything to do with me??????????

http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

that’s possible. haha But, I tried to understand what you were saying…

“just don’t use future humans as guinea pigs in research for the cures”

guinea pig stem cells are ok, to create babies, but not to create cures, that save lives?

we don’t need to create stem cells at all, and in fact, if people are opposed to stem cell research, they should be opposed to invitro/surragacy, IMHO. They create and discard *life*.

Aren’t people who utilize invitro placing one life over another – discarded stemcells, and embryos created from stem cells, over the life of unwanted children that are already born?

If anything, I would think the utilization of stem cells for research is a much more humane outcome than the simple discarding of unused/unwanted stem cells.

I will agree that, in science, just because you *can* doesn’t mean you should, ie cloning, sperm banks, *men* having babies, etc.

But, if you are going to have invitro, you are going to have discarded stem cells. Doctors, and people whose loved ones suffer from incurable diseases are just asking to use those, to help find a cure.

These people have the *right* to create *life*, and then throw cells away, if they don’t need them – but Doctors can’t use them, to try to preserve life?

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

Your answer to “or what kind of stupid checklist we create favouring one human life over another” shocks me with it abject silliness AGII….I’m shocked to hear it come from you of all people. It is so absurd and so misses the context in which it was made that I fear I can’t continue talking to you about this subject.

Please reflect. Otherwise…perhaps I’ll talk to you again sometime about something else and it will be more productive.

http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

“or what kind of stupid checklist we create favouring one human life over another.”

But, isn’t that what you are doing, favoring the life of a stem cell, to the potential cure of life threatening disease, demenetia, paralysis…the quality of life of millions?

Hmmm, I am confused as to the silliness comment.

I read every single one of your comments on this thread, and tried to understand what you were saying…

But, I could have misunderstood you. Between all the comments about trees and owls, and killing, boneheads, I got a little lost.

But, I tried to understand your point, and engage in debate, not have you shut down. I love debate.

You oppose stem cell research. You are in support of invitro, and modern medicine.

Invitro and modern medicine got where they are by using guinea pigs, and trial and error, and, like I said, stem cells are thrown away. So, I don’t understand why the opposition to stem cell research.

If I misunderstood you, I apologize, and I would love to know what you meant.

TeakwoodKite

future humans ???
QueenofHearts

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD_WRONG wrote:

“I’m not trying to be nasty”

I guess it’s just genetic, then.

Pat Racimora

LOL!

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

you’re probably right…do you expect differently from a former Soviet citizen who’s scared to death of the same evil infiltrating my new country?

If you guys only knew how bad government can get…perhaps you would be a lot more vigilent with everthing…much less trusting of it.

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

you thought Bush was bad and America is Evil….you ain’t seen nothin’ yet..you don’t know what evil feels like.

Solara 7

Cleanup on aisle 6!

PainkillerJayne

badgering the witness!…..gavel smack!
FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

and of course you would say that to a properly rationed argument you fool. Can’t find any words or arguments matching mine? Sorry for you….I know its not your fault…80 years of extreme brainwashing does that to you….it is hard to come out from under that, I admit (it took me 34 years personally until I woke up…boy what a burden it is to actually think of things such as “cause and effect” and “good and evil”).

QueenofHearts

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD_WRONG babbled:

“and of course you would say that to a properly rationed argument you fool. Can’t find any words or arguments matching mine?”

Properly rationed argument?

I agree. No one can find words or arguments matching yours. That’s because your words and arguments have been completely incoherent ravings throughout this entire thread. You act like you know everyone here, what they think and do, and you actually don’t know jack. You’re just spouting nonsense, with incredibly bad grammar and spelling, may I add? Perhaps if you were more literate people could understand your gibberish.

Did someone harvest some of your brain cells along the way, and you’re so angry you just crap on people with absolutely no “cause”? Because the “effect” is that you sound absolutely insane.

Pat Racimora

Now, now, Freedom_is_Dead, Race never came into this matter. I am fine with arguing the issue, but not with name-calling.

lark

Pat you are right. The devil is hiding in the details.
Blue Orchid

Stem cell research has the great potential of curing many horrible diseases and thus mitigates human suffering and enhances lives, it ought to get the full support of people of good will.

Ferd Berfle

Word
FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

Nuclear fusion has enourmous good to it too…but last time I looked you progressives don’t care for its use in energy production and hate even more its byproduct–NUKES (eventhough it has probably averted many wars and deaths). Be consistent guys…the result of having the technology brought us even more evil (I can see you point here), but this has even more potential to do harm to the dignity of human being (born or not).

There its not ok but here it is…mmm. Your logic makes no sense guys…and is scary. Not a good a good enough reason to do it according to your frequently used logic.

Ferd Berfle

Well, troll, I am both a scientist and a supporter of experiments that could potentially lead us to nuclear fusion and in favor of research in the realm of stem cells.

Let me add that this type of fusion does not create nuclear by-products, e.g., transuranics, that you state. You really ought to learn a few things prior to posting such nonsense. The fusion that is being worked on is the creation of a helium atom through the fusion of deuterium and tritium atoms and the liberation of a neutron, hence the term “fusion”.

Tuppence411

There are many different types of stems cell research taking place in this country- embryonic, cord blood, placenta, and adult stem cells. The controversy surrounds embryonic. The law Bush signed prohibited federal funding except for the embryonic cell lines already in place. But new lines have come into research thru private and State funding. While great progress has been made with cord blood and placenta stem cells and especially with adult stem cells from bone and skin, embryonic research has not been fruitful. Critics of the federal ban claim that is because without federal dollars the research lags behind. You can all decide for yourself.

Me personally? Where the progress with stem cells have been made aligns with my view of how the universe is ordered. From life comes life.

Solara 7

Deends what you mean by fruitful. Before we can cure anything, a great deal of basic research must be done to better understand how stem cells work.

The cells Bush “freed” were contaminated by mouse cells, thus not useful.

I have been following the work in California and it is amazing and impressive. They are doing what needs to be done–the basics. You can’t just inject someone with cells and assume they will go to where they are supposed to go and do what you want them to do. It’s very complicated.

Linda C.

There is much the research can do, but we are a long way off from “cures”. There is always a question of supply when it comes to embryonic stem cells. So that will not be enough, but only a starting point for further developments.
Rich

Beautiful Cartoon and I liked the fact that the devil is so much smaller then the stem cells. It is nice to know that a good idea can not be kept down forever. There were people who thought the world was flat and to think otherwise was against God, then there were people who believed that the sun moved around the earth and to think otherwise was against God, and now there are people who think that stem cells are more important then the lives of the living. The living are the ones that God had decided should live, and free will and scientific discovery are God’s gifts to his or her children, so let us get on with Gods will as quickly as possible to allow Gods children to make better lives for themselves. After all God is our parent and all of use are God’s children. As parents most of us want a better life for our children and we want them to live a long and productive life. We as children want our parents to be with us for as long as possible enjoying life. These desires are also God’s creation.

My prayer is that Stem Cell research progresses quickly and exceeds the scientist expectations for the benefit of us all.

For those who do not believe in stem cell research, especially politicians, I pray that you take a pledge that you, your children, and your parents will not take advantage of any of the benefits that Stem Cells can give. That to me is just asking you to put your money where your mouth is.

Rich

FREEDOM_IS_DEAD

I guess the fact that god made you terminally ill does suit your argument here eh?

I guess with your argument god gave me the right to cut down all the trees and kill all the animals I want…as long as I do something with them to further my life….OK Fine….just please don’t bitch about global warming, or fish, minks, wolves, bison, snowy owls going extinct anymore. But I know you will because to your types everything is relative….humans are below fish, and fetuses rank lower that shrubs.

You’ve all become self serving inhuman narcissists….I can’t stop it….but it will come back to torment you….just like nuclear energy research did. Have fun suffering!
lark

So you agree that many assumptions made by people turn out to be wrong, including assumptions about God, no?

So how many of the assumptions forwarded by you and those that support producing and enlarging the pool of ‘embryonic’ stem cells from aborted fetuses and or from cloned ‘in vitro’ farms do you regard as erroneous? Do you know? Would you care to take a guess?

Justifications and justice are too different things.

TeakwoodKite

I saw on our local news last month how at UC Berkley they where had two different labs for stem cell research, one Federally funded and one state funded.

Because of a requirement they had to purchase seperate equipment. I believe if this ban is lifted the researchers can work in a common space.
Linda Mac

I will never forgive Bush for (among a thousand other things) being willing to waste embryos rather than doing some good with them. Ideologs are really dangerous as Presidens. Grrrrrrr, I will be go glad when he is charged with war crimes by the World Court or sombody with some courage. Itis so long overdue. Bush, Chaney, Rumsfield, Rove, et al. They are all war profiteers and no better than the worst tyrant in any country. Did I say “Grrrrr?”

Thanks for the cartoon. It is excellet. Just exactly what we have cometo expect from you.
Don X

Those pushing for lifting the ban on stem cell research, and Obama in particular, should be clear about what is involved in the decision. I recommend reading the article by Bernardine Healy, M.D. (former head of HHS) in U.S. News & World Reports, in which she points out some of the dangers of injecting stem cells involving damaged cell lines. According to her, several recent events suggest that the use of embryonic cells is an obsolete notion. She cites a report from Israel published in PLoS Medicine in late February that shows that “embryonic stem cells injected into patients can cause disabling if not deadly tumors.” Check this out:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/heart-to-heart/2009/03/04/why-embryonic-stem-cells-are-obsolete.html

I think Obama’s planned lifting of the ban tomorrow will be followed by continuing controversy. Hopefuly, some of the ensuing arguments will be more civil and rational than those of the angry out of control name caller above. To be sure passions run high about this topic, and in particular, it seems, when people with a strong religious bias address the topic.

Tricia Spiegel

The real stem cell experts already know you can’t just go around injecting people with them. We have to know much more about how they function amd migrate. That tumor incident is an excellent example–just shoving cells into a kid’s brain. It is not going to be that easy.

http://noliinsipientiuminiuriaspati.blogspot.com/ adagioforstrings

Fetal stem cell research is not a hypothetical, but, apparently, an actuality. The fetal stem cells are currently harvested from Eastern European fetuses:

Question: Where do the Fetal Stem Cells come from?

Answer: The Fetal Stem Cells come from Medra’s laboratories in Eastern Europe.

I don’t believe that my suspicion of slippery slopes is unwarranted. Research will start with embryos on agar plates. The vector will be to increase the age of “cells” to be harvested.

JulieD

adagioforstrings –

All the more reason for the U.S. to be out front ETHICALLY researching ways to end the horrific suffering of the sick and injured.

Otherwise, people have gone and will go ANYWHERE to be treated and will have no ethical US option.

Refusing to try to ease unimaginable suffering is not acceptable. Regulation has always been the answer.

I do appreciate your concerns. They are very thoughtful and valid and must be addressed.

Jackie

Please understand…..

It takes on average 700 eggs to get 1 viable embryonic stem cell line.

THINK about what this means for women.

Harvesting the eggs is an intrusive proceedure that requires a woman to take hormones that are artificially developed.
It is not for the donor and it will limit her own fertility in the long run.

Once again we are turning women into objects and will end up in a economic draft for this process.

As an ethical people we need to consider this. We are making remarkable advances with mature stem cells–let us understand what they being to the table before we go off and harvest women and destroy what many of us view as life.

Please understand I lost loved ones to diseases that may be treated with this type of therapy. But I know my grandmother would not have accepted the killing of an innocent life to help her.

Just because we can do the study doesn’t mean we should.

JulieD

Jackie –

Do you cry at sperm banks? I love “Every Sperm is Sacred” by Monty Python.

Women decide what they want to do. Maybe it’s more noble to try to cure disease than to reproduce?

All of the eggs don’t have to come from a single donor.

Would you rather just waste them… trash them?

hannahh kelly

Obama’s decision to lift the ban on federal funding on embryonic stem cell research has been received with criticism and praise. Do you think the government would do better to concentrate and spend the tax revenue to remove the curb of unemployment? Is Obama doing the right thing? Share your views with us at
http://www.allvoices.com/journalism .
Don X

Wall Street, always looking ahead to see how investors can profit from scientific advances and changes in the political climate on social issues, has already identified a number of stocks that will benefit from Obama’s ban lift on stem cell research. Check this out:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/27597-investing-in-stem-cell-stocks-growth-industry-of-the-future

Faith based commentators like Larry Kudlow, this morning on CNBC, have already announced their opposition to the lifting of the ban. So the controversy is still heating up.

Personally, I think Obama has done the right thing by trying to set up appropriate oversight to prevent rampant unethical researh as well as forbidding human cloning.
Jaycephus

There seems to be a lot of confusion of facts on this post. Bush (or Congress) NEVER banned stem cell research. He/they didn’t even ban embryonic stem-cell research. He banned the use of FEDERAL FUNDING on new embryonic stem cells that had not yet been obtained. Private money can still be used. So embryonic and adult stem cell research has continued, both with federal and private money. Furthermore, we are now up to more than 70 established treatments using adult stem cells. We’ve already had cases of paralysis cured by these treatments. And as noted already, we’re finding new sources of stem cells. On the other hand, despite a lot of research already done, we still only have ZERO successful treatments using embryonic stem cells, and the failures are dramatically bad, resulting in the runaway production of tumors.

The whole dumbass controversy has been politicized by media morons who aren’t even aware of the above basic facts at the behest of government-funded researchers who want that free money. The reason they need tax-payer money is that private money has dried up for embrionic stem-cell research due to the simple fact that a LOT of money has been wasted already and embryonic stem-cell research is viewed as a dead-end by the private sector due to the failures.

From an article by Sigrid Fry-Revere that appeared in the Chicago Sun-Times:

Missouri, voters [in November '06] passed a constitutional amendment protecting the right to pursue all forms of stem cell research allowed under federal law — but not funding it. This ensured that the state kept the door open for private laboratories like the Stowers Institute for Medical Research, which employs an international team of researchers and $2 billion in private endowments. For years, Stowers has been doing extraordinary research on adult stem cells, and the amendment will see to it that the progress continues as the lab expands into embryonic stem cell research in the future. And since it’s privately funded, there’ll be no bond issues, no debts, no interest to pay, and no taxpayer liability.

Stowers has shown tremendous success in adult stem cell research. Earlier this year [2007], they documented the development of cancer stem cells. And just last month [March '07], they discovered the mechanism by which certain stem cells regenerate themselves — a process essential to therapies that may one day heal damaged organ tissue. They are working now to expand current research programs to include embryonic stem cell research.

Medical research has never ground to a halt when government has declined to support it. The Journal of the American Medical Association reported last September that between 1994 and 2003, the U.S. nearly tripled spending on biomedical research, and in any year where federal funding decreased, private funding increased to make up for the difference. The private sector can easily compensate for fluctuations in government spending, and more importantly, can move forward without any federal funding at all.

The great advantage of private funding is that it allows research to proceed even — especially — when it is politically touchy. When the federal government refused to fund in-vitro fertilization research in the mid-1970s, critics cried that the U.S. would fall behind, that there would be a brain drain, and that infertile couples would suffer. None of these dire predictions came true. Instead, the research proceeded privately and today reproductive technologies — IVF and related technologies for humans and animals — represent a $16 billion a year industry in the U.S. alone.

So given the above facts, when you hear some govt researcher say something like ‘Science has been freed, finally’, then you should realize you are listening to a liar uttering a lie. The truth is that a govt-funded researcher has now gotten more tax-payer money to research something that may be a dead-end already explored by the private sector.