Simple Questions for Senator Obama (UPDATE)

Larry,

Obama was clear.

I don’t agree with you that people should be denied WORK based on their personal beliefs.

The ACLU is on my side on this.

Here is an example of Hillary being a hypocrite.

From New York Daily News reporter Michael McAuliffe’s pool report. He was with Sen. Clinton today for a round of satellite interviews.

She was asked by KTVT in Dallas about a Latina backer who said that black politicians never do anything for Hispanics. Her name is Adelfa Callejo. Apparently she’s 84.
[The question: "She recently told us that African-Americans never help Hispanics when they gain power and influence and that she would never vote for Sen. Obama, and now quoting here she said 'Obama’s problem is that he happens to be black.' How do you react to those comments?"]

The newscaster quoted her saying “Obama’s problem is that he happens to be black.”

Clinton: “Well obviously I want us judged on our merits. I believe strongly that the fact that we have an Aftrican Ameircan and a woman running for the Democratic nomination is historical and I’m very very proud of that . I want people thought to look beyond, look beyond race and gender, look at our records, look what we stand for, look what we’ve done and I think that;s what most voters are looking for.”

Q (paraphrase) Is this something you reject and denounce?

“People have every reason to express their opinions. I just don’t agree with that. I think that we should be looking at the individuals who are running.”

Q – Do you still want her support, though?

Clinton laughed and said, “You know This is a free country. People…

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/

One individual expressing a point of view is not what the NOI is. The NOI is an organization that promotes home grown terrorist activities. No different than the KKK or the Aryan Brotherhood.

You can belong to any organization you so wish, as an individual citizen. But, when you take the oath of office to defend the Constitution of the United States, against “all enemies, foreign and domestic” such entanglements will put you at odds with carrying out that sworn duty.

“I don’t agree with you that people should be denied WORK based on their personal beliefs.”

Really – so I should employ a Joe McCarthy type from from Wisconsin.

I don’t think so!

Not in a political office serving the people

“I don’t agree with you that people should be denied WORK based on their personal beliefs.”

Really. Does that apply to Al Qaeda terrorists? I wouldn’t ask but he seems to like that scumbag Ayers.

Cee,
Obama is free to hire whatever scoundrels and supporters of terrorism he pleases, and we are free to reject him for doing so.

I’ve observed your bias for many weeks, and it amazes me how you overlook obvious problems with Obama that you cannot see, hear, or think.

It appears pointless to try, but I am sure you will have an excuse for Obama’s reprehensible acceptance of Farrakhan’s endorsement and the hundreds of thousands of votes it gives Obama. That Farrakhan is a Black Fascist and enemy of this country doesn’t seem to concern you. Nor his blatant anti semitism for which he is famous. And the hate that he spreads without restraint.

Have you ever asked yourself why would Obama stay in a Church and remain friends with its pastor, Rev Jeremiah Wright, a follower and devotee of Louis Farrrakhan, if he himself were not beholden to this son of Islam, Farrakhan Black Fascist with a home grown army and billions raked in by his white hating, jew hating followers. Yes, they will be giving their votes to Obama.

When I find myself in a church whose pastor does not represent my ethics or worldwiew, I remove myself and become part of another church that is close to my beliefs not just of God, but of social justice and conscience.

There did not appear to be a lot of conviction behind his so-called denunciation of The Nation of Islam.

You cannot simply dismiss a person’s past, particularly recent past, without understanding that it is a window into this person’s character and beliefs.

What shocks me as a Jew is how unconcerned most Jews are about this man and his past.

Typical.

This is a very clear article with specific questions for Mr Obama. Yet, as usual, an Obama supporter can not talk specifics about Obama….just a comment about … “He was clear”…..ummm….Obama has never answered these questions.

So you give us a one liner…Obama was clear…and then a documentary on Hillary. If it wasn’t for Hillary Obama people would have nothing to talk about!

Obama’s associations should be a concern from every single American! AND ….. Obama SHOULD EXPECT direct questions and scrutiny…and he SHOULD give us open exact answers!!!!!

AND…what in the world are you worried about? IF Mr Obama is a fresh new smelling rose like we are bing led to believe…..then what is the problem!

You should WELCOME the questions… he should be delighted to provide the answers….then maybe we COULD ALL UNITE behind him enthusiastically as our President!

OR are you afraid of the truth?

Obama himself in 2004… stated he does not have the experience to be running for President in 2008. So why now? What is the rush to the White House about? Bush rushed us to war….and people are trying to rush OBama to the White House.

IF he is as great as people say…just think how superior he would be in 2012 or 2016!!!!!

What is the rush?

What is the fear of people asking appropriate questions of someone who is trying to be our President?

We leave here too!

Amazed.

NorrisMorris: Last paragraph,Same thought for me on drive home.

What shocks me is that people in general not just jews are unconcerned about him!

He has already turned his back on the African Americans….they just don’t want to believe it. he refused to come off the campaign trail to speak at the State of the Black Union forum…..yet he did get off the campaign trail to make a speech at for his church (www.tucc.org) and that speech is now under investigation for possible finance violations.

In any regard, my point is, what every group you belong to, it is only a matter of time until he turns his back on each one. That is in his make up…..

he should be willing to answer all questions….

The video of this woman that Hillary won’t denounce

http://cbs11tv.com/video/?id=26467@ktvt.dayport.com

Cee,
Associations matter. Are you saying it is okay to have a neo-Nazi staffer in the White House? A skinhead?

Sorry, but I think it matters. Why do you excuse such behavior? I don’t deny folks the right to join the Nation of Islam. They enjoy that freedom in this country and should. But such people are not entitled to work for the President. They hold views that violate the very essence of our Constitution.

Fiscal,

Are you serious?

Euro,

Name a terrorist incident in the US committed by a member of the NOI.

“Barack Obama and Me” (Barack Obama Screamed at Me)

http://www.houstonpress.com/2008-02-28/news/barack-obama-screamed-at-me/3

Details how Obama got to where he is (meteoric rise, did nothing for 6 years in the senate until the president of the senate decided to make him a US Senator and gave him leadership on lots of bills, he had almost no support from other black leaders when he ran in the US Senate primary, when this reporter dared to print that story Obama called him and screamed at him).

Lord knows what kind of hateful emails he will get for this.

The Nation of Islam is designated as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp

Cee–You and McAuliffe need to pay more attention.

The 84 year old woman you cite gave a justifiable reason for her support (or lack thereof). She didn’t think blacks help Latinos. Fair enough. Right or wrong–that’s her opinion.

She did NOT say (as Louis Farrakhan does about whites) that she was not supporting a black candidate because they are ‘less evolved’, ‘sneaky’, “sub-human.”etc. etc.
She does not appear to “HATE” anyone–she just thinks the issues she cares about will get more attention from a white woman than a black man. I mean, she’s 84, for chrissakes!– she’s old enough to decide for herself which candidate best meets her needs.

But at any rate , it is NOT parallel construction.

For one the assassination of Malcolm X.

Larry,

They aren’t people I would vote for but if they aren’t criminals, we shouldn’t infringe upon on their rights to work or even run for office.

What views do NOI members have that violate the Constitution? I guess I need to get my copy to check.

David Duke ran. You see what happened.

I don’t excuse the behavior. I just love liberty.

And sexism. Rampant in that group.

Euro,

Okay. Internal feud.

Do you have anything more recent that would impact the nation?

Oops!

Now the Southern Poverty Law Center will be besieged with attacks!

Nice one, EG….Hey, where the heck did Cee go?

The killing of San Francisco reporter Chauncey Baily

Sprega,

Hillary is a hypocrite. Deal with it.

Cee:

As for calling the NOI killing of Malcolm X an “internal” feud, isn’t that just a tad bit dismissive?

I mean would you say that the assassinations of Martin Luther King Jr. or Medgar Evers were merely “internal” feuds between whites and blacks in the south?

Taters,

I used to contribute to the Southern Poverty Law Center and still have a great deal of respect for Morris Dees. Is he still associated with them?

When they wouldn’t add the following group after some of us were threatend, they never got another penny from me.

http://www.jtf.org/america/america.jews.will.support.black.nazis.htm

http://www.jtf.org/america/america.new.york.times.news.fit.to.twist.htm

http://www.jtf.org/israel/israel.arab.moderates.part.one.htm

Euro,

Did the death of Malcolm X have an impact on you?

It was an internal feud unless the government got one NOI member to kill Malcolm. Did they?

Hillary is a thematic apperception test. It’s the goddamnedest thing. But handy. As I told a friend, if you want to get a quick read on a person, ask them why they dislike HRC.

That may be the dumbest thing I’ve read in years.

did the government get an NOI member to kill Malcolm? What the hell are you trying to say? Murder isn’t murder unless the government is involved.

Yes, sexism. The defining schism of this elective process. It seems ok for Blacks to almost entirely endorse Obama. Men or Women blacks.

But…it’s not ok for women to endorse a woman because “I won’t vote for anyone just because she’s a woman, blah. We mean white or some latina women, because black women have gone “Obama”.

But I have never seen the degree of invective,smut,foul language, and sexist attacks on women so out there. On a Google blog, a black man’s face on a yellow TShirt printed in black says, “A Ho’ for O”. The “C” word with unprintable language about Hillary’s body parts are discussed in language and intent demeaning of all women.The blogs are obsessed with sexist hatred, slurs,sexual innuendo.

The sexism is exposed and it is a sickness that will derange our society. Obama’s promises cannot even touch the degree of contempt for women I see in print, on TV, and on the net.

And ugly though it may be, woman actually are not voting in their interest. But blacks are. Latinos are.

Women have actually preferred to be ruled by men in a society that encourages “getting the man”, and empahasizes vulgarity and exaggerated sexually driven debasing behavior in our sitcoms,videos,and the woman is still….the bait. Dressing and behaving like sluts is highly regarded in our media.

Women are still afraid to be strong and ambitious if it alienates their perceived ability to atttract a man in our society’s definitions of availability. “Getting” a man is still more important to women than acting in their self interest.

Other minorities like the blacks and latinos, never give it a second thought. Both men and women support their interests almost all the time.

I will ask you one better.

If we are to believe that Barack Obama is going to unify us a country, make us better than we are today and help us see that we are only as strong as our weakest link, then men and women of vision impact us all.

I am certainly no Obama supporter, but the fact that Malcolm X was willing to call out both the financial fraud and moral hypocrisy of the organization’s founder (Elijah Mohammed) and realized that men of all colors could come together in peace; even in the face of death threats, meant that he was willing to put his life on the line to correct a wrong.

That is my problem with Obama. He talks about how he has been right on the war all along. Here’s the problem with that. He had nothing to loose when he gave his speech, as the state legislator of the most liberal district in Illinois at a University of Chicago anti-war rally [talk about preaching to the choir there!]

When you really put yourself on the line you may come out right, or you may come out wrong.
If you never really risk anything you can never be wrong. But, you will truly be right either.

Cee,

A female 34 year old AA government employee told me today she wouldn’t vote for Hillary because she has “emotional surges”. Who should I report her to?

….but you will never be truly right either [correction]

Josh Marshall just posted on Clinton and the old lady’s words, as if there was a comparison.
I sent him the following email:

“So.. Obama getting support from a domestic terrorist
organization (as designated by SPLC) is equivalent to one old lady’s personal opinion?
Passing on this is your idea of journalistic equivalence?
Have you considered applying for Joe Klein’s job?”

Eurogirl, please read this article:
http://www.houstonpress.com/2008-02-28/news/barack-obama-screamed-at-me/3

Obama has hidden behind rhetoric and glibness.

He needs serious vetting, but Press is cowed with accusations of being racist, and obsessed with several other matters. Their usual opportunistic whorish enabling [a la Bush]is for access and TV shelf life. Without this there is no 24/7 news cycle. This is their ace card. Other issue is over riding sexism and the snide behavior of Chris Matthews, Russert, and the pack who really do not want ANY woman in power on this level.

At some point there may be an awakening as to who Obama has been bunking with. I know, and it ain’t good. But unless the press gives this legs, Obama’s back story remains a blur of largely fictional material.

I’m waiting for the real thing. The Jewish vote will be lost, I assure you if Farrakhan’s involvement with Obama in Chicago with the Black Muslim movement and the admiration of one of America’s main anti semites is revealed for what it is. Endorsement and votes. What will Obama owe this outlaw self professed Black Fascist?

We are on the brink of seeing the Son Of Islam and the company he keeps.

He’s Klein in waiting.

I’ve had it.

http://joeclaygoesaway.blogspot.com/

You are right. The truth will set us free.

Remember?

Good opinion-writing is so much more challenging than journalism per se. Almost everyone who concentrates on analysis and opinion writing becomes a hack, eventually. Krugman and Herbert are two exceptions I can think of.

I would urge you not to generalize, norrismorris. It’s true that the USA remains a country dominated by male power and preference, and that many women still live their lives under the spell of the media’s portrayal of the idealized woman and dependent on male approval.

Many of Hillary’s supporters contest that norm and are working for her because she is an independent, brilliant, and powerful woman whose candidacy itself undermines the stereotype of women that you describe.

And of course it matters if the Nation of Islam supports Obama. Someone should ask the Mossad; I’m sure they know.

Thanks Sam for the link…..

As I said, this is why I could never support Obama. He has no clear compass. He will do whatever he has to do to get ahead; by ruffling as few feathers as possible.

I few weeks back on Bill Moyers show. He had on Sheldon Steele. Steele was very adamant that Obama is very much an empty vessel. He said that most people have a clear understanding of what Hillary and John Edwards stand for. However, Obama’s goal is the acquisition of power without having any real set ideology. Does that remind anyone of the current commander-in-chief?

Anarchy cannot be one of the cornerstones of Obama’s pal’s beliefs. It runs counter to our constitution, our safety, our morality, and the conscience with which we function as moral decent human beings. He must disassociate himself from this group or any like it.

In spite of Obama’s rhetoric, he must sharply cut from this anarchistic group that undermines everything our democracy stands for. He cannot as President be associated with any part of any outlaw organization that operates on prejudice, hatred, and intimidation, and that preaches anarchy in any form.

The Nation of Islam cannot possibly be represented by an American President, or in fact by any of their affiliates.

It appears obvious that anyone would understand this, but Cee seems to think anything Obama wants is ok. Why? This is also political suicide.

Gives an interesting perspective from a real down to earth person. Thanks sam.
You catch the reference to “historical presevation” and “demolition of the projects”?

The rioting and unrest certanly was not an “internal fued” in New York, after assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.

Clearly, you aren’t aware of the LAW which prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion.

http://www.eeoc.gov/types/religion.html

Furthermore, Debbie Schlussel is the jewish equivalent of David Duke. You People are hard core, zionist republicans now. You should probably be voting for huckabee a this point…

Being Muslim and being member of NOI are very different things.

You People??? burb. So if my religion dictates I must spit on every troll I encounter, is that “discrimination on the basis of religion”.?

of course they have a right to run for office. as you mention, david duke ran for office. but then…we oppose them for the most obvious reasons. David Duke is a racist. He didn’t get any votes outside his racist base, and he isn’t in office.

But that isn’t what LJ was saying. LJ was making a statement of his values. “nowhere near office” is his strong political view, and I agree with his overall sentiment.

There is no constitutional prohibition against being a racist, it is a collective disposition. if we were to consider, say…fred phelps, the racist homophobic hate monger, wouldn’t you say, “that man has no business being president.” that is a statement of your limits.

I agree with Larry’s overall view on this. I will respond directly to his comments below. But he isn’t saying a racist can’t have a job. He said they have no business in our government.

thats because Larry J values the integrity of our government.

when you overread his comments, you will argue more with your own interpretations than his words, a common honest mistake perhaps.

The sexism is exposed and it is a sickness that will derange our society. Obama’s promises cannot even touch the degree of contempt for women I see in print, on TV, and on the net.

World wide and as long as the history of humandkind.

Though I am not sure by your post if you mean to say the subjugation of women in our society is perpetuated by women or men.
ala cultural conditioning.

If true this information is explosive.

Obama has demonstrated a real lack of judgment when it comes to his associates. He doesn’t see a problem until he is confronted.

Both bush and cheney have compromised our National security on several occasions — the outing of Ms. Plame is just one example. We don’t need more of that sort of stupidity in the white house.

What is this — give the keys to the least competent person applying for the job?

The more I learn about Obama — the more warning signs I see.

no, being a troll is not a religion.

In that they are both recognized religions in this country, the law applies to them both. So, no, you’re wrong.

Obama just keeps handing Rove and Limbaugh all sorts of juicy material to work with. Hell they don’t even have to make it up. All they need to do is google his association with Rezko, Auchi, Obongo, Odinga, Ayres and Farrakhan and his non-existant Senate record and presto! material not only for a little bit of
swiftboating but enough to sink the Titanic.

By the time Rove and company are through with him, they’ll have most Americans terrified of Obama and despising the Democratic party for foisting this corrupt, power hungry fraud on the country.

And his supporters don’t even see it coming.

Yes. Absolutely correct.

If Clinton were to get the nomination, I would expect blacks to riot. How I wish I could say the same about women if Obama is nominated.

Watching women like Dowd and the women they allow on MSM humiliate themselves by trashing Hillary is extremely painful.

Part of the problem is that women do not have neighborhoods, it is harder for us to develop a sex solidarity. We are raised from minute one in intimate contact with males and the patriarchal family. Rarely is there anyone to encourage our pride or resistance. We spend years, decades, struggling to find each other.

This is a brilliant piece of journalism. I’ve worked in the Illinois GA during the time this reporter describes, and he could not be more spot on (except for Pate Phillips being a race-baiter). Obama did nothing for years, and as the article says, Sen. Jones said, “I’m going to make me a US Senator.”

This could not be more accurate. You mut understand that Emil Jones, Jr. is one vile human being. He is one of the most corrupt politicians in Illinois, behind only Gov. Blagojevich and Mayor Daley, and he is a famous **shole. I listened to Obama and gave him a chance, but onceI hard hat Jones rhetoric, he lost me.

EVEYONE should read this article. It shows his State Senate experience was all built with help from the President of the Illinois State Senate, which is not just any position. In the Illinois GA, bills do not go anywhere without the approval of leadership. Jones essentially did BHOs work for him.

Kudos to this guy, someone who probably has the conscience to tell the truth about Illinois and Chicago dirty politics.

So the Kansas church that says people are dying in Iraq because of America’s obedience to homosexuals should be welcomed into campaigns and government work? Please. You are arguing a very ignorant point. Its not abot being a Muslim. It’s about hate, and NOI has been preaching that fact for decades.

Maybe there is something to this NOI thing, LJ. Maybe that is why there are so many defending this point and calling us “zionists”.

Cee wrote:
———————————————–
Okay. Internal feud.
———————————————–

Huh? You’re that cavelier with life and death? By that non-reasoning a GOP operative could assassinate O-Bomba, because it’s a political feud.

Would that be “okay”????

Actually, he is not that free, as there’s laws he must obey like everyone else.

O-Bomba’s taste for company, is like associating with the KKK, the Neo-Nazi and Aryan Nation leaders and followers.

That’s absolutelty disgusting and evil.

Those organizations are protected to exercise their free speech, they’re not protected to take it into government where it can be abused to hurt and kill.

That’s a mile deep canyon in the sand to not cross.

Wow! If anyone else did not get this analogy would you do me the service of letting me know?

I wil go back to watching Ball Room Dancing In HD and reading my new copy of
“Failure of Intelligence” that Mr Johnson recommended. (Thanks, Mr Johnson)

Sure glad there aren’t Shaolin Priest trolls.
6. Never do card tricks for the group you play poker with.

http://www.dysan.net/Weird/show/24.html

—————————————————-
What shocks me as a Jew is how unconcerned most Jews are about this man and his past.
—————————————————-

Secular Jews wouldn’t care much, as secular Christians of religious/ethnic politics. Most Jews in the US are secular or Reform Jews (how else can they dominate the pornography business? No orthodox Jew would touch the filth with a 100ft pole).

The other problem is Jews don’t turn on Jews. Their community is tight on that matter (much like the mafia doesn’t rat out their own), so you can count out on them protesting when their Liberal brethen aren’t angered.

Now if it was someone like Mel Gibson, you’d have Jews in an uproar. Mel touched the victimology nerve, which Jews Left and Right would try to destroy (because you know the entire world hates Jews, and want to burn them alive, right?).

So no, they’re very silent, so silent you can hear a pin drop a mile away.

Cee how many voters you think vote for someone out prejudice for the other person in the race?

Did that “little old lady” (sprite) threaten anyone? No?
It is a FREE country until you make a name for your self threating entire ethnicities.
And seriously, it does not matter to me who they are. Next they will be branding people with numbers on there wrists. Ooops, I ready saw that on a womens wrist who survived a concentration camp when a teen.

Oh, just as a reminder: Joe Lieberman, friend of Zionists worldwide, was O-Bomba’s mentor in the senate. So he’s been given another free pass.

This election is a fraud, guys, a complete and utter fraud.

EUROGIRL..

Grusse…

I would Consider the “New World Order ” Neo Cons..and “One Worlders”..and “Hate Groups” to have Ideology..aanyone who gets an Idea and gathers Two or more People can Start an Ideological Group..or movement.

Hitler, Stalin., Mao …One Person..with All the Power..No Checks and Balances..
The people gave up thier Power,thier constitutions, thier Freedom..

It starts with excuses..to Hate someone, to find a common enemy, talk ultra nationalism, talk Injustice, talk Class Struggles, talk religious or cultural differences, talk racial differences, creat new executive powers, find excuses to control peoples lifes, excuses to take away Due process, excuses to create more police power..excuses to kill, excuses to . arrest..

EXCUSES TO START WARS..NOT MAKE PEACE..

Blessed are the PEACEMAKERS..

People like Bush and Obama get a chance at Power..because they are attracted to or by
those whose Ideology appeals to them the most..then the grooming begins.. They become someone elses Useful Tool..

Its all really a Tribal..and Ancient and repetitive Ritual..mostly a blood sport..

See you at Ring Side..

Thanks for your Comments..Interesting..

Perfect!
You made my point for me!
Because fred phelps is a pastor, should all christians be banned from politics? Should catholics be banned from politics because priests have a habit of touching boys? Should Jews be forbidden from politics because of this guy?
http://www.dailymotion.com/BLACKMUSICS/video/x1g6ul_racist-rabbi

etc.

Of course, you will all ignore me now, because I have proven your argument to be childish and inane.

Did O-Bomba call Farrakhan that what he was stating was just “campaign” talk?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080228/ap_on_el_pr/obama_muslim_myth

———————————————————————————————————-
During the debate, Obama repeated his denunciation of Farrakhan’s views, which have included numerous anti-Semitic comments. And, after being pressed, he rejected Farrakhan’s support in the presidential race.
———————————————————————————————————-

He’s so empty, it’s hard to believe anything he says anymore.

it’s a nonsensical statement, unless you mean that trolling is a religion. There is no discrimination against your religion in that statement. So, no, you are wrong again.

Perhaps you dont know this, but debbie is a hard core zionist, racist republican, and you are agreeing with her! in fact, you cite her as a source! It’s literally like citing David Duke as a source on black people.

Are you outting yourself as a troll, per chance?

Nothing “nonsensical” about that idea! lol

Thank you again for a moment of my youth, Moonbeam, Fugazi rides again!!!!

what are you talking about “anarchy” for?

I am fundamentally an anarchist. Whats wrong with that? I don’t believe in illegitimate authority at all. I believe only in consensus.

But…because I don’t live, and we can’t acheive an anarchistic model, I will then work to at least check the authority that does exist.

Then again, I ain’t running for office, and wouldn’t.

Anarchist groups usually aren’t actually anarchist at all. They are usually using the word to draw reactionaries in, stimulate rebellion only. I don’t want simple rebellion. I want people to question authority, check if it is at all legitimate authority.

As with communism, the ideal state of equality cannot be reached because of greed, ignorance and corruption. So I’ll seek the closest to my model while lightly accepting that the masses have agreed to have an authoritative system.

I do not condone the mindless acts of violence that were committed by the Weather Underground, and the lack of any consideration to this day from William Ayers. It does not solve a damn thing, as it mimics what it hates.

Just a thought on Anarchy, not your criticism of some “anarchist” who really isn’t one anyway.

Crhis wrote:
———————————————————————————————-
I am fundamentally an anarchist.
———————————————————————————————-

Then you believe in destroying not only societies, but civilizations. For anarchy is what destroys them.

Anarchy is to civilizations, as poison is to life.

no, it isn’t.
that is what people may believe. anarchy simply means “without authority”. I do not believe in authority outside consensus. I accept authority exists. but you can have a civilization with consensus. societies can exist with consensus.

anarchy does not mean chaos.

and another way to say is…thats what I’d like. thats what I wish we could have. But knowing human nature, I already accept it won’t happen. so, no I don’t believe in destruction of society or civilizations.

read the following definition:
a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.

Not what folks *may* believe, it IS the truth.

Without law and some semblence of order, hunter/gathers would’ve never settled down to create the complex societies that formed civilizations.

The cornerstone of all civilizations is a well formed and executed government

To destroy the cornerstone would mean we’ll return to be hunter/gathers, and shun humanity.

In other words return to be hunter/gatherers. Which means to be but beasts again. Which means the human in humanity will cease to exist.

Anarchy is pure Darwinism in principle.

what a boastful little boy you are.

you have the logical circuits of a gnat.

No…just because Fred Phelps calls himself a Christian, don’t make him one, nice try.
But he is a great example. If people from his church wanted to be in Huckabee’s campaign, or office, you’d be a fucking idiot …wait…you are a fucking idiot…

others would be idiots to not be protesting his place in the administration.

You cannot make a distinction. You are so busy nitpicking posts for a shred of troll food, you really have no credit.

nobody suggested muslims couldn’t hold office. Keith Ellison is a muslim. do you see LJ calling for him to be removed? no.

He consideres NOI to be a racist organization, not a religion. The organization itself is what he is pointing out.

And I know many of the NOI in Houston. I have been treated Very well by them each time I covered them as a reporter. I wasn’t treated as a “white devil” but a brother, a friend. they know I reject “white” and will never be a “white” person.

I have covered 3 visits of Farrakhan in Houston. I haven’t heard “white devil” or “the jews” at any of these events. But I know the past comments, so I now there is a problem that the NOI must face if ever wants credibility outside itself.

But LJ is saying that credibility hasn’t been established.

Same thing with William Ayers. If he were to say, “wow, I really fucked up. I was young, and thats no excuse to commit terrorist acts, or plan them, blow up my apartment making bombs” then we wouldn’t be talking about it in this tone.

Ayers has not only not repented for his youthful violence, but he thinks he is still open to it as a possibility.

your gloat don’t float.

Your lumping the whole to defeat the singular or small examples. if this rabbi has an organization that espouses his views, that organization shouldn’t be in Political Office. There is no such law or policy that protects racists from getting into office. the people decide that.

Should he be unable to get a job because he’s a pathetic moron, like you? he should be able to apply, but if he came to my business and laid down this vile crap, i’d fire him. The fact that he is Jewish isn’t the point, git.

You’re a real work of art John “i’m a fucking troll with nothing to offer but nanny nanny boo boo level comments” Witherspoon.

Jesus Christ mate, have a take, not just your gadfly crap.

Chris wrote:
————————————————————————————–
I wasn’t treated as a “white devil” but a brother, a friend. they know I reject “white” and will never be a “white” person.
————————————————————————————–

Huh?

You can’t deny what you are, that’s a fools errand. You can only side more with one side, but you will never escape your DNA.

I don’t believe you understand the mixed messages you’re stating. One hand proclaim to be an anarchist (yet don’t seem to understand what anarchy is and it’s implications); and now stating you’re rejecting “white” on principle, to yet fit into another category.

It’s like experimenting with illicit drugs. Trying to find the right high, in a sea of human misery.

Yes, O-Bomba does have v-e-r-y poor judgement and associations. Yes, O-Bomba is a member of a militant church. Yes, O-Bomba has ties to the NOI. But you identify with O-Bomba, too.

no, not hunter gatherers.

did you ever read Thomas Payne’s common sense? he starts by clearly stating that Government is established because human beings have vices that muck up our ability to simply live and let live. He considered Government to be a ‘necessary evil’.

His position closely describes my ideal. I already know we cannot acheive this. But still because of my believes, I do not work to make More Government.

Consensus models only work in smaller groups, but there are many villages around the world where they aren’t hunter gatherers in the dark ages.

The people agree to their participation. They aren’t coerced into doing so. They vent disagreements with respect for the whole, and establish agreements to remedy issues.

People could still Serve the whole in positions of Public Servants, but they wouldn’t Lord over them.

And Anarchy, isn’t pure Darwinism. You’ll have to explain why you see it that way, I can’t guess your reasoning. It is participatory. It isn’t chaos. It isn’t lack of order. While the dictionary may define Anarchy to mean that, its because that is how it lives in the culture. But as a political philosophy, it is not that.

There are people who espouse “anarchy” as their way, and they simply want to be justified in acting like assholes, but if you take a look at the psychological position they are taking…they actually need Authority to rebel against, or they wouldn’t be “anarchists”. But then they simply legitimize that authority.

if you aren’t open to the discussion without sticking to other definitions as if they are mine, then I can’t really dialogue with you about it.

Putting words in my mouth isn’t listening.
( and frankly ChrisXP, I respect so many of your posts, it would be a regret to have that disintegrate over this. leave that to the John Witherspoon asshole types)

go fuck yourself!

I don’t deny what I am, I don’t accept labelling by others that wish to tell me, “you’re white”. That’s their myopic view of people not mine.

And mixing up race and political positions is not a mixed message. you are mixing them up.

yes, I reject “white” because it is a false construct based simply on skin color. that people live within that illusion is obviously real, but “white people” don’t exist. it is a substitute for European, but Europeans aren’t a monolith either, and the definition for White has kept evolving as time moves on.

The reinforcement of “white” only reinforces Racism itself.

And whatever you do, don’t dare say I’m identifying with O’Bomba. You can do better than that.

now,…that is the smartest thing you’ve said all day. Bravo!

no, dumbshit, my point was there are crazy leaders in every religion, and if you judge everyone in that religion by the crazy leaders, you are a fucking idiot! (which, conveniently for me, you truly are!) Why can’t someone be in the NOI (as you call it) and not believe everything that a leader of said religion believes? [REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR] (I guess personal attacks are vogue here, so im just playing along!)

Thomas Paine wouldn’t even have known about hunter/gatherers to make a comparison of what is known TODAY.

That’s like Newton knew of Einstein’s work!!

What we have learned since Thomas Paine is more of our civilizations, not filtered by the fragment lenses of the historical record.

He based his views on what was known of civilization and government in the mid and late 18th century. Today those views have radically changed (especially in piecing together the complexity of the civilizations of the Mayans and Aztecs, let alone the Egyptians/Greeks/Romans). The 19th century Europeans didn’t help by Romanticizing aspects of the Roman Empire that patently didn’t even exist, based on what has been recovered to date!

We now know that early man settled from little bands of about 40 people, to form larger societies. In order for such societies of 40+ individuals to live and work together, laws were created and enforced so they could live without all out bloodshed. These laws, and even cultural taboos were created to keep the masses placid, so they wouldn’t tear each other down.

Anarchy is to throw that glue away. It’ll disassemble the societies, and from that level, civilizations will fall. Returning back to bands of 40 members persuing meat over 100,000 years ago.

Don’t know about you, but I’d prefer my computer, TV, and not trying to kill the next roving band to have supper, thank you.

no, dude, white is based on genetics. It has to do with melatonin production in the skin. Anarchist is a false construction.

Chris, you keep trying to define Anarchy through One lense. That isn’t helping you understand where I’m coming from. So if you simply wish to be dominant in the defintion that you hold, this conversation isn’t possible because it isn’t a conversation. You are controlling the definitions in the most narrow sense.

What you are describing as “hunter gatherer” is sometimes called, “Green Anarchism”, and that doesn’t fit with other forms of thought called “anarchism”.

There are many many “schools” of “anarchism”. To try to stick me in the ones that fit your view here will prevent you from hearing me. You keep inserting your view in here as to what Anarchism Is. But you haven’t studied it obviously outside a basic defintion of “tearing society apart”. That is narrow.

So, we can’t converse on this. my loss, not yours.

Then, Dr. Race Expert, what Genetic stamp makes you white? because Melatonin varies in people all over the world, in people who aren’t considered “white” either.

Please…oh erudite master, explain your Genetic Whiteness.

Your ideology doesn’t compute with reality. You can’t deny your DNA. It’s like trying to run from your past. You can travel a billion miles to be away from it, but you can never erase it’s impact on YOU.

Psychology 101!

Society will always judge based on differences. It’s even anthropological in nature. It’s called survival.

You can try to deny whatever parentage you have, but you do yourself no service in trying to escape what you can not. It’s you, be happy with who you are, not what others think you are.

That’s the success of being biracial — not running away from being biracial.

Why can’t KKK members be part of the KKK without believing in their leaders?

Why Nazis without being devoted to Hitler?

Some organizations exist for a reason, and it’s not for brotherly love. You have to be a member and condone their teachings, especially if they’re CULTS. NOI is a cult. As the KKK. As the Nazis. It’s leaders ARE the organizations.

Yes, I got your point, but your logic is akin to skeetshooting. You bring up Fred Phelps and his church. I kept to that narrow example and said, if members of his ‘clan’ wanted a job in public office, you’d be an idiot to give them a job in public office.

that isn’t about their religion, its about their hateful antics. just because Fred Phelps is an idiot doesn’t mean Joel Osteen shouldn’t run for office. Both claim to be Christian.

You cannot make distinctions, because you don’t want to make distinctions unless it suits more of your Rightness.

Exactly. And their activities should keep them from holding public office. Its really flattering that John and others think, that I think, I get to control the world, but I don’t, and don’t see it that way. Its what I hold as a value, and from what LJ said, it seems he and I agree in principle.

It isn’t about religion. If you belonged to the extremists enviromental groups that wish to kill people…yeah thats your belief, but you don’t get any support from me to also be elected or appointed or serve in the Government.

Excellent points ChrisXP

This website will not open for me.

And notice that every question about Obama is answered with but, but, Clinton. I seem to remember a short time ago when the Wingnuts used the same ploy every time anyone had the audacity to question GWB.

Cee –

As you obviously tried to do a great deal of searching for something to say, how about answering the question on the table?

The question is whether the Senator from Chicago with lots of indicted and convicted friends has folks working for him who belong to the Nation of Islam (NOI)?

So either Cee or John or anyone –

Does the Senator from Chicago currently have Nation of Islam members working for his campaign?

does David Axelrod count?

From today’s Dallas Morning News…

Clinton supporter Callejo on Obama
7:47 PM Wed, Feb 27, 2008
Ayan Mittra

Dallas Hispanic leader Adelfa Callejo, a Hillary Clinton supporter, said many Latinos have told her that Barack Obama will have to prove himself because of a history of ambivalence toward Hispanics by other black politicians.

The issue came up Wednesday when Mrs. Clinton was asked about comments attributed to Mrs. Callejo that black politicians don’t do anything for Hispanics.
“I want us judged on our merits,” Mrs. Clinton said in a TV interview. “I believe strongly that the fact that we have an African-American and a woman running for the Democratic nomination is historical and I’m very very proud of that . I want people thought to look beyond, look beyond race and gender, look at our records, look what we stand for, look what we’ve done.”
Mrs. Callejo, 84, a longtime lawyer and civil rights activist, explained her comments to Dallas Morning News staff writer Diane Solis.
“I have been told by a lot of people that they did not trust him because he is black,” Mrs. Callejo said in a phone interview from her law office.
“They don’t trust him because of the local people. But that is minor, compared to his [Mr. Obama's] lack of experience. The most important thing is that there is no track record with him with Hispanics. I don’t think it is fair that that feeling exists.”
And then there is the distrust locally. It spills over.”
And Mrs. Callejo continued, “The history of the blacks is tragic and my heart aches for them.”
Likewise, African-Americans don’t know enough about Mexican-American history in Texas, including lynchings at the Texas-Mexican border in the early 1900s, and the payment of poll taxes by Mexican-Americans as a way to suppress their vote, Mrs. Callejo said.
On the campaign stump in Texas, Sen. Clinton has repeatedly told the tale of her arrival in South Texas in 1972 and how she registered voters there. That’s the same region where memory of the poll tax is long, said Mrs. Callejo.

The main problem, along with why the ERA doesn’t become an amendment, is women want it both ways. They want to be pampered by their boyfriends, but want all the perks of being equals.

When I was in school working in restuarants, the guys resented doing all the heavy work (lifting especially), as they felt it unfair. So I started carrying the heavy boxes myself, and they saw that I did the same, and never griped to me about it again.

If women want to be equals, they HAVE to actually do equal work. Not want to be both special and equal.

Women have actually preferred to be ruled by men in a society that encourages “getting the man”, and empahasizes vulgarity and exaggerated sexually driven debasing behavior in our sitcoms,videos,and the woman is still….the bait. Dressing and behaving like sluts is highly regarded in our media.

Your concern is noted, and appreciated, if questionably reasoned.

Do you really believe what you write?

Sounds like you do, and it’s dangerous.

For you.

I heard on the news today Connie is heading to the mid east next week, again to address the usual issues.

In researching the Bamsters ties to the Arabs, through Rezko, I of course came upon Bush and Cheney’s financial ties, too, Bush and Cheney connected to the same Sultans of Swing, and Petroleum, the Arab oil men who OWN American politicians, OWN them, in the Arab way, that whole BCCI, Suisse Bank crowd, same as the Bamalama, now the Bamalama of swing, as he too, is just another political whore, an oil bitch, bought and paid for….

Bush never stood a chance if asserting ANY control, implementing ANY American foreign policy, ANYWHERE, starting from the moment he stole the Presidency, accepting huge Arab oil man subsidies, same with Cheney, and the Bamalamadingdong. Bush goes to the Saudis, the Saudis don’t go to the American President.

Tsk tsk, your plans were DOA, Mr President.

Arab oil men tell Bush/Cheney what to do, Arab oil men OWN the Presidency, at least they think they do. They certainly own Bush.

And that should explain everything, the UTTER FAILURE of every Bush policy in the middle east, from the war, to oil prices, to Russian/Iranian hegemony, COMPLETE impotency, Bush and Cheney, the total limpness of American foreign policy, under the republicans.

And there will be more of the same with the Bamster, were he to be elected.

And Israel is screwed, it’s over.

And Connie?

Send a letter, don’t bother, they wrote off Cheney and Bush a long time ago, Bush never had a chance, WHORING himself, and the VP, for Arab oil money.

Same with the Bamalama.

You guys were DOA, and you still don’t know.

Moron foo!

Being equal doesn’t equate to lifting heavy boxes. Sheesh, I have had to lift heavy boxes for men for years. I don’t think of them as “less equal” because I happen to be strong in body. But a weaker man, in body, shouldn’t lose his place in line for promotion because I have a strong back and legs. That isn’t what it means to be treated equally under the law.

Yes, equal work in some measurement, but if you make it about “lifting especially”, then we’d have really redraw the map of equality among men too.

ChrisXp, I agree that some women want both ways, but only because, in my opinion and experience talking to very self aware women, they live in a world that hasn’t made the paradigm shift about gender roles and liberation.

My wife always says of the women in the world who want the ‘traditonal role’…”well that is their right too, but don’t dare impose it on me, or I’ll whip your ass.”

And she can….
I never have to think about protecting her. I usually have to ask her to Not whip someone’s ass. When we ever run into trouble, i’m not the worst case scenario, if you get my drift. She’ll tear your head off before I finish debating you.

I don’t give her the options, I accept her options and suggestion options.
I don’t give her room to be herself. She is herself and I have to learn to back the fuck off once in a while, to check myself.

Most men and boys were raised to dominate or accept dominance as a paradigm. Women have also been raised to accept that same role of the dominance game. In both categories, men and women can overcome those Gender Roles.

Now, superman, go lift some boxes. I’ve got to mow the lawn. (grunt)

Too true, and sadly, GOP coat tails could be generated by the GOP’s showing America just how dangerous the Democratic Party has become.

I can see a Democrats for McCain being organized to keep local Dems in office as the national tide sweeps McCain in.

A vote for Obama is tantamount to Electoral suicide.

“Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist party?” “Do you know any communists?” “Are there any communists in your employ?”
For communist, you may, as you wish, substitute: catholics, moslems, jews, Irish, Italians, fundamentalists, liberals, creationists, evolutionists, abortionists, drinkers, smokers, bedwetters, French people, perfidious albionese, moonies, Koreans, illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, Chaldeans? Since when did NQ become JoeMcCarthy reruns? In your pocket, do you have a list too?
There is always somebody to fear. It’s a rank malodourous stench coming from anyone, coming from folks who proclaim liberality doesn’t turn the stench into Channel #5. Fear the black man and woman who stands proud and doesn’t bow and scrape. NOI isn’t a bunch of government dependents, that is enough to make them hateful I guess.

If you step outside of American egocentricity, and look upon the Presidency as a extension of the main Arab OPEC oil cartel, everything falls into place, especially the disastrous Middle East policy decisions.

If Saudi Arabia ran America, what would happen?

Bush and Cheney, would, as well as Obama.

That’s what happens when you take billions of dollars from oil cartels.

And little Bush, and Cheney, aren’t Baker.

And little Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld don’t like being owned, do they, this not being what they had planned, complete and total policy failure, total capitulation.

Ah, but, you know business.

What are you saying?? I know a zillion things that Obama’s “backers” have said and done that is derogatory to women (example the “Bros before Hos teeshirt). Has anyone ask Obama to denounce? How much time should Obama spend going around knocking down those comments? Huh, Anyone??

As for people working for Obama (senator or campaign or otherwise), that is a fair question. However, I do take issue with equating NOI with the KKK. The NOI has in large part helps a large segment of the AA prison population become productive (or less destructive) indiviuals back into the population. The KKK has killed countless of people simply for the color of their skin, regilious or sexual preference. The NOI is not the KKK.

However, there are similarities between the KKK and NOI. Both promote what I believe is a overblown importance of themselves and aggressive speech. The difference is the KKK speech manifest in large part to violent; NOI it does not.

Obama should be asked the question.

Oh Ok you think is it is ok to spit on anyone I, according to my religion ,perceive as a troll…

My religion igit! You think discrimination is a oneway street? You poor oppressed troll, I am spitting on you because the preacher man said I should, Your more dense than the Plymouth Rock, which was deposited by retreating glaciers. So I gather you are a throw back to the Ice Age.

Larry “There are certain groups and individuals that should not be allowed anywhere near an office of public trust like the Presidency. Nazis, KKK, David Duke, and the Nation of Islam.”

Why not include “agents of a foreign nation” Those who have lobbied for a foreign nation. I would include anyone with a dual citizenship. We know that this is real problem.

The only candidate who was brave enough to address this very serious issue was Edwards. He stated “no lobbyist in my administration, and especially no one who has lobbied for a foreign nation”

Neither Obama or Clinton have picked up on this Edwards talking point. Too chicken shit.

melanin, witherspoon, melanin.

Obamanates have bought into the FAST (Facts Are Stupid Things) doctrine.

Just ignore the SPLC. On election day a beam of light will shine down on you in the voting booth. Having campaign staffers from the NOI is change to believe in?

Many Muslims abhor the NOI. Are they discriminatory?

Black on black violence doesn’t matter, it’s an internal feud. The fact a person would use violence on members of their own group should disqualify their consideration for elected office. Standards should exist for that.

Farrakhan isn’t just anti Jewish, he’s a gay basher. That’s two patent examples of his mindset.

Now we want people who adhere this same mindset to be staffers on a Presidential campaign and perhaps receive appointments to office? This in the wake of trying to clean out the mess Dubya made of civil service.

Trading one kind of extremism for another isn’t a cure.

If standing aside hatred is standing proud, you’ve really lowered the bar. These people don’t just hate others, anyone who falls out of line their own mindset become justified victims, apparently that is fine with Cee and CK. Exceptionalism as a justification for bias? Violence is okay IF?

White bigots can stand proud in their assumptions, they’re still subject to deserved ridicule. Nobody says they should be considered fit for the Presidency. They may run as a sideshow, but most Americans would not agree with their views or want a candidate to consider their aid in running for highest office.

Exceptionalism abounds.

Ralph,

Ask people in the intelligence agencies who have used them before.

I watch for an answer too.

Trading one kind of extremism for another isn’t a cure.

Is it even realistic Obama would be elected President?

Fear the black man and woman who stands proud and doesn’t bow and scrape. NOI isn’t a bunch of government dependents, that is enough to make them hateful I guess.

Communism is a threat to democracy, and those who preach intolerance are also a threat to democracy.

Do you even understand the abstract behind that concept?

You seem ignorant, as do the rest of the Bush, Obama supporters, those empty untalented narcissists.

I see Bush on TV this morning, and it looks like he, and Cheney stepped into something they can’t get out of, and they know it, and they’re scared.

Who are they going to turn to, another fey narcissistic twat, someone like Addington, or Blackwater?

Where is the talent, when it goes behind propaganda 101, and others are using you, and your political party, smarter others, to achieve another agenda, speaking of foreign agents?

Stupid republicans, stupid Obama supporters, stupid democrats.

Actually YES

My husband was at UMASS, where many blacks had been accepted. The day Malcom X was killed, I drove up to Amherst to pick up my husband. I had my infant daughter with me. Blacks surrounded my vehicle-with some trying to tip it over. I drove off, and that night my husband found an old beat up wreck so he could drive himself.

My baby had picked up whatever energy there was, and was fussy, and would’nt let you put her down for 2 days.

I love that acronym! Great.

Sadly, neither do some members of Congress.

Its all really a Tribal..and Ancient and repetitive Ritual..mostly a blood sport

You give them too much credit, too much glamour.

They’re scared little shitheads, doing everything they can to avoid looking in the mirror at the stupid arrogant ugly weak dickless man, looking back, they’re all Eric Edelman and Dennis Hastert.

So, you know, if, say, the Saudi oilarab can control Bush, Obama, or other American politicians with their money, who can control the empty Saudi oilarab?

Foreign agents?

CK,

Sorry – but this is a HATE group – and HATE groups spread violence and chaos. Just like the KKK, White Supremicists etc – So yes it is VERY relevant.

Or do you think the Taliban should also have a right to work, after all they just practice a form of Islam?

Your logic is Waaay off base.

All this angst from a poster who calls himself Mr. Murder?
Indulging in a bit of group guilt there Mr. Murder?
You about ready to join old BillO on his “lyniching party”?
White bigot exceptionalism, of course, that’s why Bill Clinton gets a pass, why Larry Johnson gets a pass on his McCarthyism. Why Annie Coulter gets a pass from Abe Foxman on her anti-semitism, has Hillary repudiated Annie’s support?
Hey did you know that John Keating5 McCain is on record as “hating gooks”? Anyone calling him out on his bigotry? Farrakhan has said that he hates Whitey … now there is an acceptable exceptionalism. Farrakhan has said nasty things about judiasm and homosexuality but those are not acceptable exceptionalisms.
The NOI probably contains other prejudiced folks among its membership. Most groups do have some members with ugly prejudices.
Collective punishment for individual guilt is an ugly thing. Are you perhaps guilty for what David Duke believes? Is each and every Moslem guilty for what the 9/11 hijackers did? Is every jew guilty for The King David Hotel bombing? Is every NOI member responsible for what Louis Farrakhan said?
Is every living Cambodian guilty for what Pol Pot did? Every Vietnamese guilty for what McCain’s prison guards did? Every black woman guilty for what Crystal Mangum did?
Which exceptionalism do you prefer Mr. Murder?

Good opinion-writing is so much more challenging than journalism per se

Good opinion writing is good journalism.

They get corrupted by money, and a need to belong, be accepted.

And they never were really talented in the first place.

They’re all Britney Spears, even Kos.

Right?

Fun site:
according to the SPLC the US border Patrol, the JDL and the Voz de Aztlan are hate groups too.

US Border Patrol? LOL!!

I was right. They lost their way.

I don’t recall the NOI ever lynching any whites.
Mostly I recall the NOI being in favour of doing things for themselves without allowing whitey to run their show. I think people should work no matter what their belief preferences are.
I remember that when the Taliban were in charge of afghanistan, they won awards for their ability to reduce the production of opium poppies. Now that the USA and NATO run afghanistan, poppy and opium production are quite high. Yet I notice that the NOI is very anti drug use. Drugs being the scourge of the black community and incarceration for drug possession or use being the prime way that white justice controls the young black male population. Being a separatist is not the same thing as being a “hater.” ( unless of course you run the SPLC and don’t get any money from the NOI)

General Petraeus?

MLK was not a member of the nation of Islam nor was he killed by a member of the nation of Islam.

Nellie, some members of the congress know it is coming but have been waterboarded with O-Koolaid. Some like Dodd just want money to pay off his debt. For what ever reason the pressure and threats endured are going to have alot of blowback in this cycle. The most common theme I have seen from these endorsements of Senator Obama, is the underline perception that Senator Obma can be manipulated from folks like Kennedy and a slew of others. With Senator Obama’s audacity comes his arrogance, pity when he finds out the office of the president has been co-opted and there is nada he can do about it.

Why not also include the Rev. Hagee.
A reverend who wants Israel to be destroyed, a reverend who wants the end times to come real soon now.
A reverend who just endorsed John Keating5 McCain.
But then I forgot McCain gets a pass on everything.

Would you assume members of David Duke’s political infrastructure are due benefit of the doubt?

That’s a pretty low threshold.

But we can employ a similar double standard on our behalf, and tolerate ideologues for Obama.

Does the Duke political infrastructure get the benefit of the doubt if they were on McCain’s campaign staff?

We’re no longer a step past ‘killaqueerforchrist’ when we embrace allah’s chosen gaybashers, no?

Would depend on of what they were being accused.
And yes Duke’s people would get a pass from the NQ folks if the Duke senior staffers were on McCain’s staff, just like McCain’s having associated himself with the Haggee folks will get a pass here.
As an american citizen, one does not need the approval of a candidate to support that candidate. Now I would just take it for granted that a group supporting Black separatism would either support a Black candidate against a white or condemn both for being part of the problem. I would not expect a black separatist group to support a Mccain or a Clinton. I didn’t know that Allah had a chosen group of gaybashers. I have not seen a lot of reportage on NOI members being arrested or accused of bashing gays. Mostly I see that sort of stuff from Boston or Wyoming. White, religious, boys bashing white boys. Maybe it is the strictures in the Torah, the New Testament and the Quoran against the wasting of one’s seed that are getting all confused here.
Nice thing about being a secular type is that one can pick and choose the parts of the Books that one wishes to despise and the parts one wishes to praise. Leviticus 17-26 comes to mind.

Chris XP:

Okay let’s get back to the basics regarding Biology vs. Destiny. If you want men and women to do equal work, let men birth their own children. Let them give birth to the children of men through their anal vaginas. Let them go through days of labor and then succumb to unnecessary C-Sections. I say let them suckle their young via their underdeveloped mammary glands.

Go and birth a few children, the people of this planet, then go thank a mother not a motherfucker.

Not the point I making CK. I was recalling the adverse reaction in my neck of the woods growing up. Still, I don’t believe MLK met his tragic fate via a lone gun man.

MLK started talking about class and poverty instead of just talking about race. He was killed.
Malcolm X returned from his Hajj and started talking about class and poverty and inclusion.
He was killed.
It is not a safe thing to talk class or poverty in this country in an inclusionary way. Just would not do to have whites and blacks realize how the american class system works against them.

What upsets me the most about Obama’s supporters is their inabiliity to have a rational discussion based around a parallel construction. When people compare apples to computers and try to justify it by saying that since there’s a computer company called Apple, therefore, we can make a comparison, it makes me question that person’s ability to reason. An 84 year old Hispanic woman commenting on what’s being said in the latino community is clearly not the same as being a member of any organized group noted for hate speak. If you believe that then go take a bite out of your Apple computer and have a nice snack.

As an AA Hillary supporter who is bilingual, I can tell you for a fact stuff like this gets said in the latino community. Does every latino feel this way? No. The same way a lot of whites will not hold Obama’s race against him. But, there are whites who will. Can candidates be responsible for every single supporters point of view? Of course not. But should candidates have paid members on their staff who have opinions and are actively involved in organizations whose ideology is founded on hate against a group or groups? They are free to do so just as supporters are free not to support and vote for elected officials who do. I doubt Jewish voters would vote for someone who had neo-nazi on their staff. And I don’t blame them.

But this 84 year old hispanic woman does not belong to a hate group.She’s relaying what is said amongst her group. And I can verify that many latinos have made those same statements in my presence. So is Hillary suppose to get up and say what, I don’t want the support of any latino who feels that way? That’s as ludicrous as a candidate rejecting the support of blacks many of whom are homophobic.

What people objecting to NOI should consider is this: don’t let this become like the failed plagiarism charge. Like before, you’re asking the wrong questions. Instead, first find out for sure how many NOI people are either paid or volunteer staff. Then ask, what I believe to be the most pertinent question, and one as an AA I would like answered, since when did the NOI and Minister Louis Farrakhan been given mainstream acceptibility to the point that it’s a non issue in a major campaign? That’s certainly news to me. It certainly didn’t work that way for Jesse Jackson and Ben Travis. And what about Arsenio Hall? In the 90′s Hall hosted a popular late night talk show that was doing pretty good in the ratings for a syndicated show until Hall insisted on interviewing Farrakhan on the heels of the famous ‘Million Man March.’ After that interview, advertisers pulled out as sponsors and ultimately his show was cancelled. And it was not due to just a drop in viewers because he had a large AA audience who could care less about Farrakhan. The rug was pulled out from under Hall and his career went down the tubes. So when did folks get so relaxed about NOI and Farrakhan?

Pay attention people: ask the right questions! The length of these comments arguing back and forth over apples and computers should give you a clue that you are not focusing on the right things.

What’s interesting to this AA Hillary supporter is that not only won’t Obama reject or denounce Farrakhan, but also that his commitment to black issues remains a mystery. Supposedly because he doesn’t want to be seen as the black candidate. But yet, he doesn’t mind speculation about his connection to NOI and Farrakhan? How does this not connect him to not just race, but to racial hatred?

I, for one would like the Senator to answer these questions.

P.S.

It’s long been a rumor that Farrakhan and his splinter NOI faction assasinated Malcolm X with ‘cooperation’ from the gov’t. Is this true? Who knows? I do know Malcolm’s widow would have nothing to do with Farrakhan and that many members in the AA community do not like him for this reason. But a lot of younger blacks don’t have this info.

Many would if they could

Permission even encouragement to treat non Jews differently is in Deutoronomy

Wonder if the Southern Poverty Law Center defines “Aipac” the same way?

This is the question that we may face. If the Obama tidal way can be sustained. If it hits shore before the fall..the Obamalution is over

actually you brought up fred phelps. There is no distinction.

yeah, where’s the discrimination against your religion? Nowhere.

One of the things that bothers Dems about Dr. Farrakhan is that he refuses to be a victim.
And as her removes more and more AAs from victim status he is taking away clients for the old school type of Dem programs. The more sucessful he is the more the comparison to old style programs comes up short for the dems. When blacks are no longer self identifying as victims, there is no need for the old dem ways. In his success is the threat to the “white man’s burden” model of race and people relations.
The repubs hate him because he understands that a disarmed person is a slave. He has no intention of letting blacks be disarmed by the government.
It is this last that puzzles me concerning his support for Senator Obama who is consistently in favour of victim disarmament.
So while his rhetoric is firey and raises hackles, the NOI accomplishments are far from nugatory and every white dem hates his and the NOI successes.
Have you seen the latest figures for imprisonment in the United States. 1% of the total population is imprisoned the vast vast majority for criminalization of what is at worst personal private vices; not crimes against persons or property. But when you dig into the figures, the proportions of the imprisoned versus their proportion in the population is way way off. 11+% of black males between 20 and 34 are in prison, black males between those ages do no make up 11+% of the US population. The ONLY presidential candidate to talk about this issue was Ron Paul and he is for blanket pardoning of folks imprisoned for being victims of victimless crimes in the failed drug war. Farrakhan’s success threaten this source of slave labour for the private and public prison systems. 1 in 100 black women between 35 and 39 imprisoned, 1 in 355 white women in that same age group imprisoned. McCain’s wife gets a few months in a BettyFordOMat for stealing mass quantities of drugs from her own private charity, any random black lady who did the same would do life without in some 6×6 barred room. I don’t have any problem with Dr. Farrakhan leading black men and women out of this kind of situation.

From the reply that was given to the Larry Johnson question I now know that, Yes Senator Obama WILL have the followers of Isham working for him. Even though Islam has two main goals at this time. The first is the destruction of Isreal. The second is the destruction of the United States. The leaders of Islam have stated many times that the only way to destroy the Great Satan is from within.
Senator Obama was raise in a Moslum country. It would be impossible for him not to have the teachings of Islam ingrained into his being. I personally will not consider Senator Obama as anything other than a threat to this country until I see and hear him make a pledge to this country and none other. I also want to see his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Alliegence to this country.
Am I wrong or did I see the Senator get sworn into the senate with his hand on the Quran instead of the Bible? If he is a Christian why would he do this?
I have been a die hard Democrat my whole life. I am very proud of that fact. This year will be the first time in many years that I will not be supporting the Democratic party. Unless my fears for our country are addressed I will campain in order to have anyone other than Senator Obama elected.
To put this as blunt as possible. Is Senator Obama a member of or a supporter of Islam? If he is elected president will he try to destroy us from within? One thing I do know is that he cannot serve our country and Islam. May God help all or us.

SENATOR OBAMA, PLEASE TELL AMERICA YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS AMERICAN JUDICIAL INJUSTICE ???

LETS ALL HOPE OUR MEDIA FRIENDS ALSO SHOW AN INTEREST IN REPORTING ON THIS AMERICAN HORROR FACING THESE (TENS OF THOUSANDS) FORGOTTEN AND TRAPPED POORER AMERICANS, AND HOW THIS PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDER HANDLES THIS VERY SERIOUS ISSUE FACING AMERICA’S LATINO AND BLACK AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ????

**WITH 80% OF THE BLACK AMERICAN VOTERS SAYING THEY SUPPORT SENATOR OBAMA IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, IT IS ONLY FAIR FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW PRIOR BEING ELECTED OUR NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HOW THIS DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TRULY FEELS ABOUT THIS AMERICAN JUDICIAL HORROR CONTINUING TO INFLICT GRAVE HARM ON THE BLACK AMERICAN FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE ??????

*** WHEN GOD’S FACE BECAME VERY RED ***
THE US SUPREME COURT GAVE ENEMY COMBATANTS FEDERAL APPEAL HC RIGHTS LAWYERS AND PROPER ACCESS TO US FEDERAL COURTS,AND POORER AMERICANS (MANY EVEN ON DEATH ROW) ARE DENIED PROPER FEDERAL APPEAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION TO OUR US FEDERAL COURTS OF APPEAL, AND ROTTING IN AMERICAN PRISONS NATIONWIDE ?????????

**** INNOCENT AMERICANS ARE DENIED REAL HC RIGHTS WITH THEIR FEDERAL APPEALS !
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE $LOWLY FINDING OUT HOW EA$Y IT I$ FOR MIDDLE CLA$$ AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN$ TO FALL VICTIM TO OUR U$ MONETARY JUDICIAL $Y$TEM.

****WHEN THE US INNOCENT WERE ABANDONED BY THE GUILTY ****
The prison experts have reported that there are 100,000 innocent Americans currently being falsely imprisoned along with the 2,300,000 total US prison population nationwide.

Since our US Congress has never afforded poor prison inmates federal appeal legal counsel for their federal retrials,they have effectively closed the doors on these tens of thousands of innocent citizens ever being capable of possibly exonerating themselves to regain their freedom through being granted new retrials.

This same exact unjust situation was happening in our Southern States when poor and mostly uneducated Black Americans were being falsely imprisoned for endless decades without the needed educational skills to properly submit their own written federal trial appeals.

This devious and deceptive judicial process of making our poor and innocent prison inmates formulate and write their own federal appeal legal cases for possible retrials on their state criminal cases,is still in effect today even though everyone in our US judicial system knows that without proper legal representation, these tens of thousands of innocent prison inmates will be denied their rightful opportunities of ever being granted new trials from our federal appeal judges!!

Sadly, the true US *legal* Federal Appeal situation that occurs when any of our uneducated American prison inmates are forced to attempt to submit their own written Federal Appeals (from our prisons nationwide) without the assistance of proper legal counsel, is that they all are in reality being denied their legitimate rights for Habeas Corpus and will win any future Supreme Court Case concerning this injustice!

For our judicial system and our US Congressional Leaders Of The Free World to continue to pretend that this is a real and fair opportunity for our American Middle Class and Working Poor Citizens, only delays the very needed future change of Federal Financing of all these Federal appeals becoming a normal formula of Our American judicial system.

It was not so very long ago that Public Defenders became a Reality in this country.Prior that legal reality taking place, their were also some who thought giving anyone charged with a crime a free lawyer was a waste of taxpayers $$.

This FACADE and HORROR of our Federal Appeal proce$$ is not worthy of the Greatest Country In The World!

***GREAT SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT PROTECT EVEN THEIR INNOCENT, BECOME THE GUILTY!

A MUST READ ABOUT AMERICAN INJUSTICE:
1) YAHOO AND 2) GOOGLE
MANNY GONZALES THE KID THAT EVERYONE FORGOT IN THE CA PRISON SYSTEM. ** A JUDICIAL RIDE OF ONES LIFE !

lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com (424-247-2013)

I would like to know if Obama did get elected if he will be sworn in on the Bible and if not we as a Nation have become much much too liberal.