What Does Universal Healthcare Mean? A Canadian Physician’s Experience of the Current Healthcare System in America

Senator Clinton says that getting health care for ever single American is our moral obligation. She is the only one that I’ve ever heard say this. Her passion, her insistence that this is what defines us, is admirable and daring. That she failed with health care reform the first time, very publicly, and chose to continue the fight speaks volumes to her humility, determination, and leadership.

No matter what happens in all of this, I will never forget that I am witnessing history. That we are watching a leader that “is going to the mat,” for a cause, for a human right, for decency. I don’t see any other candidate fighting for this.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It is informative and helpful.

Thank you sharing a small part of your day.

60 minutes had a story to night about a Dr. who treats 900 people a weekend …some people drove 200 miles and waited in cold of night 7 hours or more.
400 people turned away…It was right out of the Grapes of Wrath… When is enough enough?

Marty Tankersley came with his wife and his daughter, asleep behind the front seats. Tankersley says he drove some 200 miles to get to the clinic and slept in the parking lot for hours.

“Just to have this done?” Pelley asked.

“Yes, sir. I’ve been in some very excruciating pain,” he replied.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/28/60minutes/main3889496.shtml

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Excellent perspective on both the health care system and why Sen. Clinton is the person to get this done.

I have experienced the “don’t want to go to the Hospital” in 2 ways that have affected my whole life.

1. My father, like myself, ran his own small business. He mostly ever just had enough to give us the idea that we had a safe financial living. Truth was, we were only one tragedy away from ruin.
Well that finally happened, my father died of a heart attack after 2 weeks of pneumonia that he wouldn’t get treated because of the costs. This was in 1983. I was a kid.

2. My son has an asthma attack, his mother grew up with this problem and panic set in. She took him to the emergency room not knowing what other options might exist. They gave him some medication, and sent him home. Then sent us a bill for $1600. We were stunned. Basically they gave him a little medication, (take an asprin and call us in the morning)

3. My family now battles the occasional illness, and my health is pretty good, but after discovering a few changes in my body (probably aging) I do not even think about going to the doctor because it costs too much. I won’t follow the path of my father I hope, but after years of confusion about why he wouldn’t go…thinking he was just a stubborn male when it came to hospitals…I know why now.

Our kids are well protected from anything that will result in a broken bone, or injury. “don’t do that, we can’t afford the consequences!” is a mantra some days.

I’m sure there are many other areas where I have hidden issues about going to the doctor only because of money. My partner suffers when she is ill because it would cost money. Her chest hurt really bad one time and she insisted she wouldn’t go. I’m thankful she’s ok.

The positive side…we’ve given up sugary foods and sodas, stopped smoking, and eat at home more than ever. We can’t afford the consequences, so we have to plan ahead. But life isn’t eternal and our bodies decay.

Thanks for this article.

As a visitor in 1975, I experienced the British socialized healthcare system firsthand…and was very impressed.

After getting out of the military over in Crete, I travelled through Europe on my motorcycle, finally crossing the English Channel to Dover. I had an accident on the Dover Road above the White Cliffs (I wasn’t used to riding on the left side and ran off the road), flipped my bike and got scraped up. I then limped to a nearby boys military academy to use their phone. Awhile later bobbies showed up along with an ambulance. I was taken to the emergency room, given a tetanus shot, an arm splint and antibiotics.

The cost?

$1.00 for the antibiotics.

The British bobbies and medical personnel were real nice, real professional. Like I said, I was very impressed.

And then there is the U.S. medical system. I haven’t had health insurance for over twenty years now, and am one of the working poor, so if anything happens I’ll probably end up at the local emergency room.

In other words, it would be nice someday if U.S. citizens can finally be treated as well in our healthcare system as I, a stranger, a foreigner, was treated over in England in the mid-1970s…and would be treated today.

The U.S. healthcare system is sick and in need of healing, which would definitely be a legacy we all could be proud of handing off to our children and their children.

Meanwhile, when you actually lived with “universal” healthcare for two decades of your life (been available for active duty service people and dependents for decades), your views of it — and how it almost killed you, and killed others you know — your opinions of it, compared to the payer system, you’d never want to go back.

A lot of the rhetoric is how it’s perceived as being a “good thing”, but it’s episodic (like the OP mentions and some replies point out). They don’t know to intrinsic details; nor not paying for it (think private insurance is expensive? HA!); nor being treated under such a system to appreciate it’s downside.

The healthcare in the US is superior to any around the world. My average sized city of about 200,000 residents, has a medical school, 6 hospitals (including a regional military hospital), with over 6 MRI machines and untold CT and other hard-to-find diagnostic machines in places like Canada — in one city. There’s walk-in X-Ray clinics (really nice if you fall and need a quick check to see if there’s a hairline fracture, and not wait forever in the ER as your triage need is low [learn that word TRIAGE r-e-a-l well in "universal" healthcare, as it'll determine if you live or not on limited resources -- right, doc????]); comprehensive cancer treatment centers; a dedicate children’s hospital; regional burn center; highest rated regional trauma center. Over 20% of the population either works in the healthcare directly (we have over 600 physicians alone).

Most-in-need are in the Medicare and Medicaid system already. So the uninsured are basically 2 classes: working poor or those who DO NOT WISH TO HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE (usually the young who feel they’re healthy, that is until they get in an auto accident or such).

What the rhetoric doesn’t tell you is those who don’t have this health insurance, that they want to insure are ***illegals***. Now I don’t believe in paying for folks breaking our laws, then wanting top-notched healthcare and passing the bill to taxpayers, too. Nope, there must be a punishment for such behavior, not just throwing money at them as a reward. Healthcare isn’t a right to those who abuse the healthcare system. Nope, granny who’s a citizen and paid her way trumps a family who knew they broke the rules. Our citizens come first, as healthcare is a limited resource no matter how it’s funded.

Now how will “universal” healthcare amend the “system” when the system in itself is what’s broken? Throwing money at it; forcing folks to give up quality over quantity (Wal-Mart healthcare); long waits (experienced already in state runned hospitals with Medicare/Medicaid funding); isn’t going away with a new budget and enrollments.

Since I’m on Medicare/Medicaid, because I’m disabled, I seen all three systems IN THE US, not some foreign country. I know from EXPERIENCE for over FOUR DECADES.

Pssst…ask Canada about their moth-balled hospitals (because there’s not enough money to keep them open…sounds familiar????); long waits which is why those with the means cross over to get healthcare in the US (it’s a cottage industry along the Northern border) — know of someone who didn’t cross over for a MRI would’ve been dead if he waited 6 months; and how difficult it is to treat about 30,000,000 citizens.

Now try applying it to 50 states with over 300,000,000 citizens. The Medicare Part D hassle will be nothing compared to that mess to impliment.

It’s another pipe dream of folks thinking if only all folks were in the system — especially these illegals — the problem will just go away. It won’t, because the real solution is one no one wants to trade — you have to give up quality for quantity (BTW, if others can get value-added insurance on top of “universal” healthcare, it’s simply the same system as before, too).

No such thing as “universal” healthcare, period.

>>> Why aren’t Americans demanding affordable and compassionate quality healthcare for everyone?

Some concern about getting on a, “list,” perhaps…

I watched this segment too and was in tears at the end when so many had to be turned away. Is this the America we are so proud of? Is this the kind of country we want to be? We should all be ashamed that any American has to endure “excruciating pain” because they afford to have a damn tooth pulled.

Get er done Hillary, get er done!

Emergency rooms in the US are overcrowded, too, and often with people who do not necessarily have a medical emergency. Likewise, we have long waiting lists.

Hillary’s plan is a start, but it doesn’t take us were we need to go. She views health care insurance as an obligation (like getting a license to drive a car – an analogy she had used last year), rather than a right. We need to have a broader discourse about health care that frames it as a life and death issue like public police and fire protection.

Let’s face it, we have a pay-or-die health care insurance system in this country. The National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine estimates 18,000 people in the U.S. die every year because they can’t afford health care. (And these are the people we know about.) There is no other country in the western world where you die because you can’t afford health care.

We need a government insured health care system (Medicare for All). In a government insured system, the government is the insurer and the private system delivers under standards that protect citizens, and people would have free choice of doctor and hospital. (For most corporate insurance policies, people are restricted to plan doctors and facilities.)

The discourse needs to be about providing national health care to all, rather than selling private insurance.

Because too many of us got sucked into the Milton Friedman/Ayn Rand “greed is good” philosophy that Mr. Sunny, Ronald Reagan, popularized. Now many of us are all about blaming the victim and feeling superior to poor who get what they deserve, the lazy bums. (Remember Reagan’s phony Welfare Queen schtick? It schtuck.)

In a perfect world I would agree with you. But right now Americans are still to scared of that ol’ boogey-man, socialized medicine. By at least getting everyone insured and stream lining the system we are getting a start. When people get used to it, they may look more favorably on a single payer system. On the other hand, Germany is supposed to have a very good system and they have retained private insurance, so it can be done.

Why do Americans need universal health care? As long as you have greedy plastic surgeons to convince American men that women with plastic tits are sexy, that should really be all that matters, shouldn’t it?

My father had just taken early retirement by one year after 39 years employment on the railroad when Mr. Sunny, who we eventually learned was really Mr. Wacko, threatened to cut the railroad retirement benefits. At that news, my father had a breakdown, never recovered from it and died having never been able to enjoy his sunset years.

Now, after nearly eight years of yet another but unelected Wacko in the White House, we have a US dollar that has become a worthless piece of paper. This could mean lots more breakdowns for retirees living in Europe and the UK who are now receiving worthless pension checks.

Regardless of the world’s perfection (or imperfection), people who live in the most powerful nation in the world should not die because they can’t afford care. Again, we are the only western country in this imperfect world that allows its citizens to die if they can’t pay for care.

The reason people are apprehensive about government insured health care is because those who claim to support it frequently repeat the frames for privatized insurance, which weakens or blocks consideration of a national alternative. You rarely hear Democrats saying, “we can achieve national health care, because….” Instead, what you’re likely hear is the defeatist script, “people want single-payer, but is not doable ….”

Citizens need to understand that national health care is in their own self interest. The big insurance companies are not going to allow their cash cow pay-or-die system to change without a bloody fight.

I concur that the ‘greed is good’ for America theme has really slayed us,especially with healthcare. The sheer and utter disdain that the wealthy have for the working poor is no different than the Nazi’s belief in Aryan superiority that compelled them to viciously and actively murder those that did not fit this mold. Here in America this is also being done by the systems this country has in place only in a less than dramatic and swift manner. The slow, steady and fiendish destruction of people victimized then blamed for being victims is no different. It’s just looks different because it’s easier to obscure.

Human beings, it seems, are really bad at finding sensible solutions. Why does it have to be one or the other? As someone above pointed out in Germany they have both. Why can’t that happen here in the ‘greatest country in the world.’ If you work and/or can afford private health insurance, then good for you, nothing should change. But for God’s sake, find a way to offer a humane solution for those of us who are not covered.

And why do American citizens have to continually be the sacrifical lambs to the beast of the illegal immigration? Getting healthcare for American citizens should not be thrown into the same pot. It’s a separate problem and should be handled that way and also in an humane manner. After all, the government has been luring illegals to this country to work for low wages and winking its eye at the problem while feigning outrage to its own citizens.

Enough!!! Fix the damn healthcare issue. Period! Doing nothing is still causing SKYROCKETING COST$

I’m a natural born American citizen. I have dual citizenship with Italy. I live in Italy and have national healthcare for Italy and any country in the European Union. Here’s how it works:

Every citizen is assigned a national health care card and a list of doctors from which you choose one to be your primary care physician. All visits to this doctor are completely free. All of the prescriptions he writes cost ONE Euro (not a typo) ONE Euro at the pharmacy. He may also dispense medicine from his office.

If you need to see a specialist, your primary care doctor will send you there. The first visit to any specialist costs 20 Euros (not a typo) 20 Euros. All visits after that to the specialist are FREE. Prescriptions again cost ONE Euro. If your case is not an emergency, you could wait up to two months for an appointment with a specialist.

Surgery is FREE. I had outpatient eye surgery. I got the same, good results that I had in Texas with the first eye.

Hospitalization is FREE.

There are certain procedures that cannot be done at certain times of the year, for heath reasons. Again, if not an emergency, no problem. You can’t be a spoiled American on this system. I’d rather be an UN-SPOILED American who has a roof over her head AND Medical care.

Another benefit. They don’t give you mega doses of anti-biotics. Instead, a lesser dose and REST is what heals the body. In US when you have to go back to work immediately, there is no such thing as a lesser dose and whoever heard of rest? Also with the EU approach, you don’t suffer with side-affects from mega doses.

People arn’t into psychiatrists here in Italy. The kids arn’t on Ritalin and the adults arn’t on Prozak. Unless you’re a hard-core criminal, all citizens are considered to be NORMAL and INDIVIDUAL. Kind of sounds like FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, DOESN’T IT?

In Great Britian recently, there was a spate of concern because patients were waiting more than 4 hours in emergency rooms before they were even seen.
The GB equivalent of the Department of Health issued a ruling that patients had to be seen within four hours of entering a waiting room.
Now all patients are seen within 4 hours of entering a waiting room. The patients are held in the ambulances instead. The clock doesn’t start running until the patient enters the waiting room. Waiting in the ambulance doesn’t start the clock.
With medicine as with any other good or service, the provider listens to the payer. With medicine, you are not the payer, you might be the object to be worked on; but you are not the one the doctor has to satisfy in order to receive recompense.
If you have ever had an insured auto accident, you know that you have little to no say in what or how the repair shop fixes your wreck. You pay your premiums and the insurance company determines whether your car is a total wreck or a repairable one. If it is repairable, the body shop/dealership does whatever is appropriate to bring the car back to the insurance company’s standards — not your standards.
As Chris says upthread, learn to love the concept of Triage.

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Enough!!! Fix the damn healthcare issue. Period! Doing nothing is still causing SKYROCKETING COST$
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Even Medicare, that sets payment rates in the US (which the insurance companies use as a price benchmark), CAN’T control healthcare inflation.

That’s the reality.

Adding 200,000,000 more into the system WON’T change the increase in costs. Ask any country with a “universal” healthcare — they cut services to cut costs to compensate.

What good is healthcare that is easy to get for primary care (flu shots; annual checkups; medicine dispensing); but puts the chronically ill on waiting lists????

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Surgery is FREE. I had outpatient eye surgery. I got the same, good results that I had in Texas with the first eye.

Hospitalization is FREE.
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Absolutely NOT!

Everyone pays a premium. Be it $2,000 a year or higher.

Nothing is giving for “free”, as someone somewhere is going to pay for it (the reality Communists and Socialists don’t want to be confronted with, who consider paying for pipe dreams is taxing a population that started a Revolution over high taxes in the first place — this is the USA, not Italy or the UK or Canada!).

A single-payer system does has it’s advantages, but to date all methods of trying this approached resulted in cutting services to provide QUANTITY of care. Quality is regarded second.

Don’t know any American who prefers second-class healthcare!

In the UK and other countries until recently they even outlawed Medi-Gap type insurance to pay for extras. When citizens revolted, they eased it, so now folks who can pay for it in the UK, for example, pay for TWO INSURANCE policies.

A lot of people are being fed Obama-o-matic pipe dreams — “Oh, we in the UK or Italy or France get FREE healthcare!!” — but when pressed with reality, folks will soon find out that it’s not “free”; it’s not fair; it’s still based on status/class; and everyone now pays a premium or goto jail.

Damn nanny State again.

I’d personally prefer the Medicare Part B type system better. You choose a plan that fits your needs, and pay the fees accordingly (you’re offered a choice, and can opt out, but if you do, you’re responsible of paying the cost [via payroll garnishments; IRS with holdings, etc. if needed]). Healthcare itself will remain basically the same, but now everyone [BUT ILLEGALS] — including those with pre-existing conditions — can now be covered.

Add coverage for extras that Medicare normally doesn’t cover, and folks can live with it — both the consumer and the insurance industry.

Very good diary.

This in no way is to reduce the importance of healthcare reform which has been ignored for over 30 years, BUT if this women came into a U.S. hospital emergency room I do not know of a hospital (and there may be some) who would refuse treatment even if the person had no insurance.

Having said that I pay over $2,000/month in health insurance premiums. Fortunately I can afford it. I know of three families who cannot afford health insurance and it is frightening.

I do believe in a sliding scale of affordability and that every American should have some level of quality health coverage the same way they are given an elementary and secondary school education.

I also think we need to not only be careful of considering affordable coverage for everyone, but also making sure that we still attract the best medical education and talent in the world. Who is at the short end of this? Health insurance and malpratice insurance companies.

I do not think that Obama has any idea how to intelligently balance this equation without throwing us into a welfare state with less quality care. I believe that Hillary can create that balance and best negotiate a landmark change in our healthcare system.

The reality is that rich women or women with rich husbands don’t need plastic tits. Plastic tits do not serve any health purpose and may even be detriment to health. If they can afford the plastic, then let them pay the taxes to provide health care for those who don’t have it.

Europeans would much rather pay taxes for a good healthcare system than be lying in a premature grave. Maybe that’s why in Italy, in my region particularly, we have many senior citizens over the age of 85 who are healthy and active. The president of Italy, himself, is 85!

Gee, all the rich Americans (like the poster here who can afford $2,000/mo. premiums) are so worried about their choices! Actually, people, it’s your choices that are making you sick and in need of all those premiums in the first place.

You choose greedy doctors who tell you that you need a mammogram, sonogram, pap smear, colo rectal, x-rays, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum EVERY year!. They give you pills and pills and more pills.

You also buy into the greedy psychiatrist and therapist rackets. You give these quacks all your cash and they give you brain medicine. If you got through HS, College, Grad School and then became gainfully employed, why is it that all of a sudden you need Prozak?

Wake up, Americans! You are brainwashed. You don’t have a clue! Wake up!

Europeans don’t have all those choices because we don’t have greedy doctors trying to pick our pockets. But guess what? We still have a better quality of life than Americans have and we outlive them as well!

…..The healthcare in the US is superior to any around the world. My average sized city of about 200,000 residents, has a medical school, 6 hospitals (including a regional military hospital), with over 6 MRI machines and untold CT and other hard-to-find diagnostic machines in places like Canada — in one city……

Interesting! And the reason Europeans have a better quality of life and longer life span than Americans is………

What you listed above is nothing more than WASTE! With a capital W!

You call it single payer, I call it government monopoly Triage system.
Nothing that requires resources and labour is ever free. Someone had their wealth or their income or both stolen to support someone else’s wish fulfillment. Someone was turned into a slave for some amount of days of labour.
Will the folks wanting free health insurance agree to capping the income of doctors to no more than the national median income or maybe the median income of auto mechanics?
I noticed the other day the the Gov of Massachusetts was all upset about private clinics being opened in pharmacies. Why was he upset? Because the private clinics charge minimal fees for a specific set of services. The fees being lower than the copays one would shell out to sit in a waiting room for several hours to see a doctor for nasal drip, or a skinned knee.
http://www.gbmnews.com/articles/665/1/Wal-Mart-Walgreens-and-CVC-opening-in-store-clinics/Page1.html

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/02/19/early-adopters-warm-to-retail-clinics-but-publics-still-cool/

http://healthcarewatch.wordpress.com/2008/01/10/massachusetts-allows-in-store-clinics/

Obviously price competition is not desired in Mass. Now who exactly is Gov. Patrick’s bestest bud?
Not to worry, there isn’t really enough lint left in most workers pockets to pay for their own family’s healthy food let alone someone else’s medical bills.

If Hillary couldnt get the healthcare system fixed when she was in “office” in the 90′s(part of her “experience”) what make you think she can change things if she becomes president?

So Obama is a lightweight and Hillary is the heavy weight who will fight for truth justice and the American way.

So what then will Hillary the heavy weight with all those years of experience fight for?

Getting us out of Iraq?

Reducing our military presence around the world?

Reducing our dependence on oil?

Impeaching all the crooks of the current administration?

Restoring our constitutional protections by repealing all the Patriot “acts” and other fascist laws?

I could go on, but why waste time asking when none of you Hillary supporters ever answer how she will address any of these questions.

So I guess the answer is she isnt going to address these issues which means if she is elected President it will just be business as usual and the two reigning American political dynasties will simply change. I wonder who the next Bush will in 2016?

Less consumption of HFCS?
More consumption of real sugar and real butter?
Less consumption of bovine growth hormone laced milk.
More consumption of cheese, raw milk, non- genetically modified grains?
Less consumption of pills
More stress free sex, less prostate cancer?
More consumption of real wine, olive oil, garlic?
More consumption of hempoil and other hemp family products?
Just a few guesses

…..The U.S. healthcare system is sick and in need of healing, which would definitely be a legacy we all could be proud of handing off to our children and their children……

Well, you know, the greedy American doctors that are giving insured Americans all those “good choices” might have a point if the lifestyle and lifespan of those insured Americans actually improved or at least was on a par with European standards.

@Bill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_P._Bush
Too young to run this year. Old enough to run in 2012.

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Interesting! And the reason Europeans have a better quality of life and longer life span than Americans is………
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They don’t eat our diet. Like Texas, it’s bigger and better.

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What you listed above is nothing more than WASTE! With a capital W!
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Naw, it’s quality.

When you have a loved one who had a mini-stroke, you’d sure appreciate that MRI/CT scan quickly. Earlier treatment equals better outcomes — not wait for your loved one to be Euthansized for being a “burden” on the State (your European “option”).

My mom’s grandmother lived to be 108. At 88 she had her first tooth pulled. She lived in Japan, in a time where there were NO SOCIAL SERVICES (didn’t work, you can die system). My parental grandparents lived to 92 and 96. My grandmother lived to be 89. My mom is 78, my dad 76.

So please don’t tell me that it’s just healthcare itself ensures a long lifespan. It’s a healthy set of DNA, lifestyle and a robust “Seize the day” mentality that ensures longevity.

BTW, my family also HATES doctors. Which means, we don’t goto the hospital unless necessary. Has worked well for generations — see above!

Ah, get your facts straight — Canadians pay close to $2,000/year per person for their healthcare.

NO IT’S NOT FREE.

Read that again, almost $2,000 a year PER PERSON.

Greedy doctors? Naw, doctors who can spot cancer at 1mm size tumors; find heart blockages BEFORE heart attacks, same with preventing strokes — not tell them they have a pulled chest muscle or they have migraines.

Good medicine costs money, as the equipment to diagnose conditions IS costly.

Prozac is given to those who DON’T function well (and SSRIs aren’t always the best choice anyway, some may need neurolyptics). I take it that IS your concern????

…..Everyone pays a premium. Be it $2,000 a year or higher. Nothing is giving for “free”, as someone somewhere is going to pay for it (the reality Communists and Socialists don’t want to be confronted with, who consider paying for pipe dreams is taxing a population that started a Revolution over high taxes in the first place — this is the USA, not Italy or the UK or Canada!)…..

I beg to differ with you on your “nothing is free” statement. If you had free housing, would you have a problem paying taxes into a reliable healthcare system for everyone?

That’s right, most Italians don’t pay mortgages. In Italy, a family consists of three generations — Grandparents, Parents and Children. When a couple marries, they move into separate quarters in the parent’s home. These houses are never sold. They are kept in the family and passed down. When the eldest generation dies, they make room in that house for the next generation and so on and so on for many generations. This way, Italians always have free housing.

But the American way is for every new generation to be greedy. They wouldn’t dream of sharing a three-family home with other family members. Then, when the housing bubble bursts, they have big troubles — and no health insurance to boot.

So from my perspective, having lived six years in Italy, the entire American “Dream” of owning your own home is wrong and may have always been wrong and nothing more than a concept for greedy bankers to get you to pay them interest.

You’re circumnavigating yourself. Nothing is free, everyone pays. Generational homes don’t matter, as you’ll pay in taxes.

Guess what those taxes pay for????

Folks resent paying for folks who won’t better themselves — or use their time to destroy themselves with vices. Disability; work accident, etc. no problem. But it’s not the job of the many to support a few to abuse the system (like a crack smoker with kids, who rather smoke than get clean, not only for her/himself, for the kids sake). Nor is it the job of the State to be everyone’s Nanny. Personal responsibility IS personal, not federal.

I share your sentiments about U.S. healthcare versus the rest of the world.

But something needs to be done about the high cost of health insurance to make it affordable for everyone. Not like Europe of Canada, but some kind of sliding scale that has people like myself still paying high premiums (although not as high as I am paying now) and people who cannot afford the same be able to pay based on their financial circumstances.

I agree totally that good genes are responsible for longevity. So this brings up another ball of wax. Maybe, if you know you come from healthy stock, it might not be a good idea to emigrate to “Melting Pot” societies like the USA where doctors tend to lump you in with all the sickies and you end up paying for their treatments. Notice, the doctors can’t seem to find many cures for people with bad genes — just expensive treatments.

My friend in France is doing fine with heart blockages that were found. In fact, his French doctor told him that the procedure he had done five years ago in Texas hasn’t been used in France for 14 years! His healthcare is free too, by the way.

Notice I keep using the word “Greed” in every post because that’s really what it’s all about. If Americans were a little less greedy, they would be able to take care of the crack-heads and not be bitter about it.

No, it’s called PERSONAL CHOICE.

The docs don’t hold a gun to your head to get treatment, folks CHOOSE to get it.

But that’s not the case with “universal” healthcare — the State will shove a AR-15 up your butt and force you to take it.

I don’t believe bullet enemas are beneficial. Do you????

Because Americans aren’t guinea pigs. You do notice drug trials are done in Europe, right?

So much for EU and Human Rights!!!!!!!!!!

My wife and I have excellent health insurance by American standards. I have heavily subsidized corporate retiree coverage with Cigna and she has Medicare.

We are as well-covered as you can be in America.

For our 2007 taxes, I just added up all the costs of our monthly premiums, drug and office visit copays, deductibles, etc.. It came to $11,500, in a year when we were both basically ok!

Even if you are lucky enough to have healthcare coverage in America, the basic carrying cost is way too much for the average American family income of $40-50K.

bullet enemas
No but they are used by insurance companies, not the Doctors.

It’s high not necessary due to the system itself, but the way the system is currently used.

More money is spent treating conditions AFTERWARDS, which requires more expensive (sometimes lifetime) healthcare.

Preventive medicine isn’t encouraged.

Let’s take diabetes. Efforts to ensure blood sugars are within range with nutritional education; weight checks; cardiovascular health checks and everything else to ensure a patient stays healthy (and off very costly by-pass and dialysis treatment) isn’t done. Medicare would rather pay for the by-pass, and there’s a cottage industry now for dialysis centers (within 4 years I’ve seen 3 new centers around town, for example — though our population hasn’t increased much).

Then Medicare believes in funding all these businesses for those motorized power chairs for the elderly, too.

Then Medicare/Medicaid doesn’t bat an eye when you goto the hospital for a check in with a family health clinic there, and they charge over $600 for a visit. Where a walk-in clinic will charge $45 plus cost for venipuncture (taking blood) and other supplies.

The rising costs can be controlled within the system, IF Washington (and states) were more vigilant in cutting costs. I remember overseeing one hospital budget when I worked in health access, most of the available money was spent on 2 things — employees and prescription medication (just like in education, with a w-a-y top heavy employee cost). What was left was for healthcare itself.

The system itself isn’t broke, it’s properly managing it that is!

But you’re choosing to carrying a private insurance plan into retirement, thus, your incredible premiums. That’s not the case with most in the Medicare system — who average around $700/mon in retirement pay.

What you need is a good Medi-Gap insurance to cover the out-of-pocket expensives, and get on Medicare Part D for prescriptions and supplies (mom pays about $42/mon for about $900/mon worth of medicine — including 2 forms of insulin and testing supplies every 3 months [as Medicare requires]).

System is in place, and it works.

Dear Chris,
you should get your facts straight. Canadians DO NOT pay $2000 per person for their healthcare. For those who have money or workplace insurance, the maximum paid is $54 a month. This includes getting huge breaks on medication costs (i.e. 75% less than the full price in most cases).
“Greedy Doctors”? given the billing system, greed cannot factor into it. There are set fees that we charge the government. Read the last sentence here again. We charge the government our fees NOT people or their insurance companies.
Chris, you need to get your facts straight.
I can say the above with certainty as I am both a Canadian patient and physician!
Dr.Carolyn

Cannot disagree with any of your points at all.

Preventative treatment will reduce many health problems and you pointed out a very good one in diabetes. Some, like most cancer, you can’t. But that is a long term solution to health care costs.

People still do need to be insured at some level. One sise fits all government run insurance is not the best answer and will cause our taxes to be driven up. But government support at some level will be required. Small tax credits for people who cannot afford to initially pay very high premiums is also not the answer.

Actually, you do, doc. This is the REAL cost of your “universal” healthcare…

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/46/33/38979719.pdf

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Canada also ranks above the OECD average in terms of total health spending per capita, with spending of 3326 USD in 2005 (adjusted for purchasing power parity), compared with an OECD average of 2759 USD.
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There’s no free lunch, folks. Someone is going to pay. Grandma on that fixed income, and even 5 year-old Johnny. Political talking points don’t matter, EVERYONE pays.

This was just too easy. You give one citation. I just googled health care costs per capita and found and endless supply of resources that seem to show the opposite of what you indicate…around $3300 per capita for Canada and $5000-$6000 per capital for the US. Canada has a life expectancy 2.5 years higher than the US. US, as a percent of GDP, is the highest in expenditures in the world. The WHO has the US first in response and expenditure but 37% in performance and 72 in overall health. We are 41st in infant mortality (convoluted calculations) and 45th in life expectancy. ‘Statistically’ speaking, the US is first in cost and not much else. You personally don’t want to wait in line. That is the exact stereotype of an American to the rest of the world. Well, guess what, you aren’t any more important than any other citizen. The health of a nation is a priority to countries around the world, but not in the US. Americans aren’t just greedy, they are self-entitled and arrogant.

In your world only does the health care debate revolve around the US. Others look at the US in relation to the rest of the world. And the litmus test goes beyond how long YOU have to stand in line. Some view the debate as a relationshiop between cost and outcome. The US is not first by any means.

That citation is one of the best ones you can find (go ahead find a better one that is NEUTRAL). All will show the per capita (per person) rate to be roughly the same.

Secondly, it shows the REAL cost of the healthcare per person (a very important fact for all of those “I get my healthcare for FREE!!!” types).

Thirdly, don’t compare the other healthcare systems to ours based on life expectancy and/or death rates.

1. Because our population is a vast “melting pot” (compared to populations in the UK, Sweden and Germany) with many new immigrants annually, which usually had poor healthcare to begin with.

2. Our population dwarfs by 10x the population of Canada, and even more for other countries (so the mean average will be lower by default).

Even with the powdered sugar coating, the number games don’t work.

I have been to the ER in the US and had to wait. My spouse had a broken collar bone…. over 8 hours between the waiting room, sitting in a med room, ex-ray etc.. I went home and picked up my spouse in the early morning. Son, broke his shoulder in two places, waited about 5 hours. If you’re in a life threatening situation, you’ll get in. If not, you are going to wait. In the US, the doctor does not answer to the patient. He answers to the insurance company.

I don’t relate to your automobile accident analogy. I have had an auto accident. We didn’t role over for the insurance company. We argued with them aggressively. We got the check from the insurance company and had absolute say in the repair of my car. We defined exactly what would be repaired, ordered the parts ourselves, had the car taken to individual shops for particular repairs at less cost, etc.

Who is going to?

Last time I was in the ER (about 2 years ago), from the time I was in the door to the time I was seen by medical staff (after inprocessing that took about 10 minutes) was 45 minutes.

In contrast to military healthcare (closest thing we have in the US as “universal” in application), when I had a femur broken due to an auto accident, it took 4hrs to just get an X-Ray. Another 2hrs to set it (they tried first to put in a skeletal traction pin [reading this doc] without any anesthetic — don’t you love horror stories????). Now [doc are you reading this MORE??] what is the complication that can happen with long bone fractures? FES. Okay, despite this danger they had me in a room without any monitoring until they found me literally blue. Why? Staff shortage! Spent a week in the MICU fighting for my life. Oh, I can go on about the horrible “care” (ever tried sucking Jello through a straw, since you couldn’t feed yourself as both hands/arms were boarded and the table was a foot above you, nor any staff cared to help [oh, the irony here was they were mad when my sis brought me a burger to eat [do you know HOW hungry you get on massive steroids????], and so nice to hold it for me!!]????) — but that is enough to give you the gist of the situation.

Naw, you can keep your “universal” healthcare, thank you!

Chris,
In Canada a large percentage of our tax dollars does go to funding our healthcare system. This is true. More of our tax dollars goes to health care than military. This is also true. However, the most a Canadian has to pay for health care is $54/month. I can say this with %100 accuracy as this is what I pay being in a higher tax bracket on account of my profession. So Chris, unless you really know what you are talking about, I would recommend thinking before you write. You might find it someone refreshing!

Your comments puzzle me. Senator Clintons plans are exceptionally well laid out at http://www.hillaryclinton.com I believe all of your questions would be answered were you to spend some time reading instead of complaining.

Just the luck of the draw. I have heard both horror stories in both continents. I heard on of my colleges talk about how much better we Americans have it, as his sister broke here wrist in Europe only to have the doctors do a shoddy job of resetting it. Well my mother broke both her wrists in the US, only to have American doctors set them crooked. Same outcome.

My son was in the ER over Chrismas break with severe abdominal pains for 2 days. We worried about appendicitis. It turns out it was nothing serious. but we had to wait about 4 hours. We have insurance so we only have to pay about $1000 out of pocket as it is early in the year, It still seems high for what was done. The full bill is conciraably higher.

About 5 years ago, my brother in law had an obsructed instestine. He lost about 1 foot of large intestine. Anyway it came on suddenly and he was taken almost unconscious to the ER. It was a busy day so it took him six hours to get in. The pain was so bad that his blood presure shot up and he had a stroke a few hours after ariving, and before he was seen.

The point is depending on location, both coninants can suply horror stories, but when a statistical study is done, both have about the same success rates. The only differance is one system does not cover a large segment of thier population. It also causes many to fall into finanatioal ruin(A large percentage of bankruptcies are due to medical bills). It also tends to cost about twice as much as the other system.

For some rreason most people in the US forget that the for profit medical isurance industry is fairly new. It doesn’t have to be that way. It is twice as costly and it is debatable as to whether it is more effective. Having a system for twice the price and debatable extra effectiveness does not sound like a good idea. It makes us consumers her in the US look like rubes. One always hears “well the no such thing as a free lunch” when addressing this problem. It seems to me someone’s getting a free lunch, it’s just not the consumers. When we pay twice the price the extra money is going somewhere.

It is twicw

While it may be true some immigrants have worse health than the general population, I don’t think it can be at all shown that immigrants usually have poor health. They are also not a large percentage of the population only 12%
(high for recent history,but well short of late 18 or early 1900s) and many of those are young heathy workers. They’re numbers are not overwhelming the HC industry.

Reguarding your second point, it ssems that economies of scale would come in to play. With 10X the pop, it should actually be cheaper to care for each individual.

While it may be true some immigrants have worse health than the general population, I don’t think it can be at all shown that immigrants usually have poor health. They are also not a large percentage of the population only 12%

How will anyone know with illegals? How will anyone know what disease they can bring into the US, too?

(high for recent history,but well short of late 18 or early 1900s) and many of those are young heathy workers.

Immigrants were screened of health conditions at Ellis Island. Those with scourges like TB (The White Plague) were barred entry. So, yeah, those that entered were healthy upon entering this country.

Can anyone state the same with illegals, that are increasing the costs of health itself?

No.

BTW, since you’re being snarky about your MD: I’m well abreast with heathcare issues, having worked in health access for 5 years. Not from a lofty ivory tower, but with shoe leather actually doing person-to-person surveys to address the health concerns of the most-in-need in 13 counties; to pushing medications to NOT be pulled from a hospital formulary; to trying to keep a hospital budget from being red-lined to the bone.

So speak what you know, okay? I’ve actually been through the whole process at policy level.

I advocate reality based healthcare solutions. Not throwing the baby out with the bath water, because something radical just sounds great on paper — or does an O-Bomba with it (talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk).

Right, doc?

The problem is the OVERALL cost of healthcare (which I was addressing, above, in the first place). Just because someone pays $54/mon doesn’t mean they pay for the full cost of their healthcare. The government pays for it, and that government is spending more than it’s taking in to do so.

The result is cuts. Now paper pushers and docs like you would rather have a job, and prescription prices are largely fixed. So guess what gets squeezed out?

Access to the very healthcare you preach.

How?

Cutting services.

This is very apparent in Canada with mothballing hospitals, and long waits for ESSENTIAL services (why there’s a over-the-border cottage industry in the US for Canadians to pay for what your own government forces them to endure — like that MRI a friend of mine needed so much, but was put on a 3 month hold that would’ve KILLED him. Your docs didn’t care that he had a brain injury from an accident, that he could barely sit upright even. He had someone drive him over the border. Got his MRI, found the problem, got his surgery here. And still trying to recover lost functions from the incompetence of your healthcare system. He’s so upset he wants to be an American citizen!!).

It’s no wonder why socialized medicine endorses euthanasia, right doc????

It’s a shell game you’re promoting, doc. Rather treat the black eye, and rob the bank in the process to do so, bankrupting the very welfare you’re promoting.

That’s robbing Peter to pay Paul. It gets no one nowhere in the end.

Don’t blame your unhealthy society on the Mexicans. Mexico has a much lower rate of Cancer than does the USA. Latin people all over the world, in fact, have much less cancer and heart disease. The sick people in America are the Anglos and the Jews.

God that’s sad. I’m Canadian too, and this stuff alternately makes me furious and sad. Today, it’s sad. All that pain and suffering is just so unnecessary.

Unfortunately there are no statistics that show the US having better health care than other industrialized nations. On the majority of metrics countries like Germany and France are as good or better. And by majority I mean in excess of 95%. The idea that the US has the best healthcare in the world is simply false and is backed up by zero evidence. Even Canada beats or equals the US on virtually every metric except for optional surgery, and Canada is coming close on that one as well.

No, you’ve just been sold a bill of goods, and because you don’t want to believe that the US actually sucks at something (healthcare delivery)you believe it.

[...] brilliant, briliant description by Dr. Carolyn at the noquarter blog of what life is like in a health care crisis in a country with and without universal health [...]

[...] Dr. Carolyn on No Quarter (*must read*) [...]

I can’t wait for them to decide you cant have a liver transplant becuase you are a drunk, then because you are to old. This system can work, but be careful you have eugenicists out there still.

This is a nice and friendly forum, and the issue is very important. Sadly almost all the commments and the article itself are all annecdotal.
I lived in Canada for many years, born there actually and now live in Israel. Israel also has a National Health Care System.
What is not stated, is that in both countries when putting together a Life Insurance plan, one also pays out a wad for private medical insurance. Interestingly if the state decides that your ailment is obscure enough to be ignored, you will not be covered.
As for waiting for operations, waiting six months or more is a very long wait, & many die who cannot afford to go elsewhere.
What is also not mentioned is that over fifteen percent of everyone’s tax dollars in Canada go to Health Care, and that is only Federal taxes, there are also provincial taxes to be paid.
The doctor made it sound as if he was paying for the suffering woman out of his own pocket, out of the good of his heart, when it was taxpayers who footed the bill.
I enjoy National Health Care, but it is not the end all, and the varying facts are being ignord.
Whether it comes out of your tax dollars or goes to purchasing private insurance, the money is still going out, it then comes down to whether you think that the gov’t is most equipped to be telling the doctors what to treat, and what you can recieve and when.
Be Well.