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Does what we are doing here matter? [Update]

By SusanUnPC on March 15, 2008 at 10:37 PM in Barack Obama, Democrats, Nancy Pelosi, Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., Tony Rezko

Sunday UPDATE: Also write to Speaker Pelosi via AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov.

Just below, Larry has the arguments and the proof why Barack Obama is toast. Or should be. But will the elite of the Democratic party realize this in time to stop a candidate who will be destroyed in a general election race? There are two reasons I worry (there are plenty more but listing two reasons will suffice for this post): 1) Nancy Pelosi, and 2) above-it-all liberal elite bloggers.

Larry and I — and all of you who read and comment here — are unafraid to look at the underbelly of Barack Obama. We’re not hopelessly P.C. You and we understand why everyday patriotic Americans will NEVER vote for Barack Obama. But the elites don’t get it or are too hyper-sensitive about race to take an honest look at Obama’s gravely serious impediments to winning the presidency.

The elite bloggers and media censor serious discussion of why Obama’s issues make him unelectable. Today, one otherwise top-notch liberal blog issued an edict: No one can comment about Rev. Jeremiah Wright, even in an open thread. If anyone does, their comments will be deleted. Yes, that is true. Then there are the media: CNN’s Anderson Cooper apologizes for reporting the Jeremiah Wright story, as I pointed out in “Imagine if Wright Were Hillary’s Pastor ….” (It’s a sorry day for me when I have to turn to Fox News to see open reports on Rev. Wright’s disgusting screeds. But that’s where I have to go.)

Speaker Nancy Pelosi has crossed the line to “game” the primary race.
In an interview last night with George Stephanopoulos on ABC News, Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, and the Permanent Chair of the Convention in August, asserted that superdelegates should nominate the pledged delegate leader and not the popular vote leader. (The full interview with Pelosi will air tomorrow Sunday morning on ABC’s “This Week with George Stephanopoulos.”)

Susan’s note: I am indebted to Andy, a regular here at NoQuarter, for her research and writing of the next section exposing what Nancy Pelosi is up to — follow along to see what Andy discovered:

Speaker Pelosi asserts that it would be “harmful” to Democrats if superdelegates were to give the party’s presidential nomination to a candidate who is trailing in the delegates awarded in primaries and caucuses.

Stephanopoulos then asked:

“But what if one candidate has won the popular vote and the other candidate has won the delegates?”

Pelosi replied:

“But it’s a delegate race. The way the system works is that the delegates choose the nominee.”

Pelosi last night redefined the role of superdelegates and stated that the popular vote is irrelevant. In two sentences she effectively said the race is over.

It seems clear that by convention time Clinton will be behind in pledged delegates. There is a good chance, however, that she will be ahead in the popular vote. Especially if the popular vote of Florida is certified (independently of its delegates) which seems can be done.
Pelosi’s comments are clearly meant to influence the superdelegates who are still neutral.

Or maybe Pelosi is trying to steamroll past the Wright controversy, the Rezko controversy, and the 2006 earmarks controversy. Probably she meant all of the above.

It is clear — and after Fleafllcker’s superb analysis it should be even clearer — that the delegate system is somewhat arbitrary. We have several open primaries. PA is a closed primary but Obama is openly exhorting independents and republicans to register as Democrats for a day and vote for him in PA. Watch for yourselves:

And then we have all these states with caucuses where bullying seems to have been the norm this year.

It certainly does not seem that the Democratic party’s inconsistent, unfair and exclusive primary systems are a truly legitimate expression of popular will.

We haven’t thought much about this since … yes, Florida 2000 and Gore vs. Bush.

Yet here is again. Dean and Pelosi seem hellbent to nominate Obama.

So I ask Speaker Pelosi: Isn’t it “harmful” to select a nominee who doesn’t win the popular vote and more importantly that cannot win those battleground “must win” states?

Pelosi crossed the line. As Speaker of the House, thus automatically the Chair of the Convention, her duty was to remain neutral. Her statements were irresponsible and undemocratic.

I have sent an email to her this afternoon at her Speaker’s office e-mail contact form.

I invite you to send her one as well; it’s easy and takes 5 minutes. Would it matter? Probably not, but would surely like to see her inbox full of emails holding her in contempt.

Here’s why:

A plain-as-day common sense view of Obama’s 20-year close relationship with Rev. Wright tells us that Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, and their two daughters have been steeped for decades by Rev. Wright’s consuming hatred of America and of white people. The bedrock “everyday patriotic Americans” — all of whom consider it their sacred duty to vote — SEE this about the Obamas, and for that reason alone can never vote for him.

Those “bedrock” ordinary Americans will have no part of such a candidate. And they will never forget the words of Jeremiah Wright or their realization that the Obamas — no matter their weak and dishonest excuses — heard those words, applauded his words, stood up for his words, and supported his words through donations in the tens of thousands of dollars annually (they donated $22,500 alone in 2006).

It is also plain as day that Michelle Obama, in particular, agrees with Jeremiah Wright. Having now heard Rev. Wright’s screeds against America, it is clear why Michelle Obama expresses disgust with her “country,” and comes across as so angry and hostile. Barack Obama is smoother, and hides his disdain better, but his attendance, his financial support, and his frequent references to the influence of Rev. Wright belie his calmer exterior.

Here’s a sample of Michelle Obama’s hate-filled attitude towards America:

As NewsBusters previously reported, the wife of Democrat presidential candidate Barack Obama isn’t very proud of her country.

Two weeks after making her disdain for the nation clear during a campaign speech for her husband in Wisconsin, Michelle further debased America by saying that we’re a country that is “just downright mean.”

How can any “bedrock” American hear that and not be repulsed?

For that matter, how can any of us hear that and not be repulsed?

Your turn.

  • AF

    TheHill had an article the other day that may explain Pelosi. There’s belief inside the DNC that Obama’s bring in so many new people that downticket Dems will benefit. She’s thinking (if you can call it that) Obama will win her more house seats.

    It was this week – I’ll look for the link.

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

      Not all the people who live around me. They’ll be so revolted by Obama and Wright that they’ll vote against the other Democrats.

      The governor of my state — who has a TOUGH TOUGH TOUGH reelection fight coming up in November — has endorsed Obama very publicly.

      The people who live around me will take due note of her endorsement. And punish her accordingly.

      They’re already sore because she won in 2004 by a few hundred votes, and many think she “stole” the election through crooked Democratic politics in Seattle/King County. And Dino Rossi, who barely lost to her in 2004, is running against her again. He’s smart, charismatic, articulate.

      I was planning on working hard on her reelection. Now I’m so turned off, I wonder how much I’ll do for her. (Hopefully, for the sake of the state and because she’s done a pretty darn good job as governor, I’ll get over it and help her. But it will be difficult. I’m sick and tired of forcing myself to support these people who don’t deserve my support.)

      • AF

        Oh yeah, I think they’re way off on the coattail theory, and Pelosi needs to re-evaluate her beliefs in the context of current events.

        Yeah – Gregoire, that was a close one. Seattle is a bizarre place politically – surrounded by Republican suburbs right?

        Thanks for the email addy – I’m in Pelosi’s district and will write her toute de suite.

        • Andy

          AF:

          If you are a constituent there is another email you can use as well
          (it is just for people in her district).

          It is http://www.house.gov/pelosi/contact/contact.html

          I guess you can email her at both (as your Rep. & as the Speaker)

          • AF catfish

            Done and done! Thank you Andrew.

            • Andy

              I am Andy but not from Andrew ;-)

          • lois

            Heh. I emailed her and told her that when the democratic party calls me for a donation I will say ” I am unable to donate at this time due the vast amount of Democratic Party officials who have the title of SuperDelegate but yet can only rubber stamp a flawed process.”

            • Andy

              Good point lois !! Thanks for emailing.

      • Strawberrybitch

        WOW Susan, another Emerald stater!!!!yea!…oh wait…wow, sorry, another Emerald stater. This last fiasco forced me to become a delegate. I just can’t be an innocent bystander anymore. (sigh) Looks like I’m off to Olympia in the next few weeks…please tell me you’ll be there…we can mix up Bombay martinis before we go face the scary and rather loud Obama fanatics again.

        • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

          You’re a delegate for Clinton? My daughter and her boyfriend are both Clinton delegates. She for King County and he for a rural county where he keeps his permanent home.

          What’s this about Olympia? My daughter is planning on going to the King County convention and hopes to be a delegate to the state convention.

          (I’m not a delegate because I was in the hospital and was disenfranchised … don’t get me started on that … ha!)

      • ritamary

        Here in the 50th Congressional District (formerly Duke Cunningham’s district) in San Diego County, I was volunteering for a Democratic candidate who is running against Brian Bilbray. I was collecting signatures to put this candidate’s name on the ballot. Then the candidate endorsed Barack Obama. I did not try to collect one more signature for him.

        The local Democratic club seems very pro-Obama since John Edwards dropped out. The club is composed of middle-class, middle-aged white people. I stopped going to their meetings.

        This is a very conservative district. A Democrat might have had a chance without taking on all the Obama baggage. Now I think we are pretty much doomed here before we even got started.

      • Lexia

        Ms. Gregoire, as Deputy Attorney General, wrote the brief for the famous AFSCME v. Washsington State, that effectively ended comparable worth in the U.S in 1984. Her efforts reversed a judgment of over $800,000 million awarded women employees in the State of Washington. Her specious and speciously applied argument that the “market does not discriminate”, while her employer discriminated overwhelming against women, was lifted almost whole as the basis for Judge Kennedy’s (now S.C. Justice Kennedy) reversal of Judge Jack Tanner’s decision finding that indeed the State of Washington had systematically discriminated against women.

        Gregoire is no friend of women. As Attorney General, she defended every egregious act by her employer to maintain overwhelming sex segregation within the State of Washington, the largest employer in Washington State.

        That she endorsed Obama is more proof if any were needed that a Barack presidency would do women no good.

      • Fleaflicker

        Maybe it is age creeping up on me but I have reached a point where I refuse to support someone just because they are a Democrat and the alternative might be worse. I have thought all of this through and have decided that I am an American first and a Democrat next.

        I will support the person(s) that represent the things that matter most to me. And in this Presidential election that person is Hillary. And maybe with Hillary in the White House my core Democrat bones will start walking and talking for me again. But at this point I am so completely disenchanted with the DNC and many Democrats in Congress that I find it more than a little difficult to offer my support to many of them.

      • yttik

        “The people who live around me will take due note of her endorsement. And punish her accordingly.”

        Yep, I live here too and you’re right. I have declined to sign up for her re-election work because I’m just not motivated anymore to put in the effort. I’m tired of bouncing around in the back of the democratic turnip truck.

      • StatBabe

        Susan, I did not realize that you lived in Washington state–I lived in Bellevue, WA for 5 years while I was in graduate school at UW! The election that I remember most vividly was when that crazy whackjob Ellen Craswell ran on the Republican ticket against Gary Locke back in 1996. I STILL recall hearing Democrats talking about “crossing over” to vote for Craswell in the primary because she would be “easy to beat”–a VERY dangerous strategy, if you ask me. Personally, I voted for Norm Rice in the primary, and if Norm Mailing had been the Republican candidate for governor in the general, I probably would have voted for Mailing since Gary Locke seemed a little abrasive to me. Needless to say with Craswell running as the Republican candidate for governor, I made sure to vote for Gary Locke! Incidentally, I had watched all three debates between Ellen Craswell and Gary Locke. In the first debate, it was clear to any sane person of either political persuasion that Craswell was a lunatic since she wanted to “sell or give away” the University of Washington so that the state would not have to support it. She also advocated chemical castration for sex offenders, expanding the death penalty to include executions for rapists (among others), and doing away with much of the appeals process so that the state could execute people more quickly! Ironically, by the third debate, Craswell had moderated her message so much that she almost sounded reasonable! As I recall, that was the largest turnout for a general election in Washington in history–and it was all to make sure that Craswell did not win!

        I must admit that I was relieved to see Christine Gregoire ultimately prevail in the last election since Dino Rossi is a little too right of center to suit me, but Gregoire was NOT my preference among the field of Democrats. I liked Deborah Senn because I still remember how she drove unscrupulous insurance companies out of the state and became a true advocate for consumers when she was insurance commissioner. For what it’s worth, I still have a few friends in Seattle so I know that you are right about Gregoire. If the Democratic nominee for president is not a strong candidate, you guys may just get stuck with Rossi–an unpleasant thought, if you ask me.

        BTW, do you remember when Jay Inslee defeated Rick White in 1998 with his campaign consisting primarily of opposition to impeaching Bill Clinton? It was an interesting moment in that district since that is one district that has a sizable proportion of “moderate-to-liberal Republicans” (many of whom went to my church) who completely rejected the notion of impeaching a president over lying about a private, consensual sexual matter. Rick White was actually not that bad a representative, but he was a casualty of the GOP’s overreaching in the Lewinsky affair. At the time, I was so disgusted with the Republicans over Ken Starr’s “witch hunt” that I was ready to see ALL the Republicans go so I did not shed any tears for Rick White. Nevertheless, Rick White was a victim of the GOP in the same way that Linc Chafee became a casualty of belonging to the GOP in 2006. Chafee was actually a good senator with probably the most liberal voting record of any Republican in the senate, but with an “R” after his name and all the damage that Bush had caused, Chafee had to go.

    • AF

      Here’s that article Eyeing Obama Coattails

      By Alexander Bolton
      Posted: 03/12/08 07:55 PM [ET]

      Democratic lawmakers are becoming persuaded that Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) would have a more positive impact on other Democrats on the November ballot than Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.).

      Obama’s advantage over Clinton would be most pronounced in the Southern and Western states President Bush carried in 2000 and 2004, say lawmakers interviewed by The Hill. In total, 32 members of Congress from these “red states” have endorsed Obama. Twenty-two lawmakers from those states have backed Clinton.
      …
      …

    • Ramasan

      Pelosi and Dean need to read the Dallas Morning News piece on the Obama voters not bothering to vote in any of the down ticket races. They picked Obama and left the voting booth.

      • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

        Yes! And I should have written up that story. It was shocking. Those PUNKS only came because they are high on HOPIUM.

  • campskunk

    if obama gets the nomination, all those chickens will come home to roost after it’s too late to do anything about it. hello, president mccain is what we’ll be saying.

    • The Gringo’s Wife

      I believe historically, the country has done better when one party holds the WH and the other the House and Senate.

      A makes a more synergistic body of government when one cannot go forward without the other. Period.

      Perhaps what we should be discussing and emphasizing also is that with a Democratic President elected in November, we would be back to one party rule.

      And total power corrupts … everyone.

      Now imagine Olbamarmann and his crazy uncle with all that power?

    • Kat Bee

      I think some Obama devotees have to go through some face-saving in order to disengage from him. What would really help is if a prominent Obama delegate switched to Hillary.

      • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

        As for Obama supporters needing to save face when they switch. Well, they might not announce till later. Or in the case of Pelosi and other big-wigs, just finding some fine print in the rules that supports seating of FL/MI as is, might weaken him enough that they don’t have to come out publically against him any time soon.

        AT one time iirc moveon.org was petitioniing to let the popular vote decide. There are so many ways to spin the popular vote (or even perhaps the delegate count) that justification can be found for just about anything.

  • Kathy

    In fairness, Talk Left outlawed posts about Wright because it was too explosive for the closed community. I don’t think they took a position on the preacher, but rather they recognized how volatile it would be and decided not to go there. We all agree to the rules when we post there and it keeps the Obamabots from coming in and calling us all stupid cunts, so I think it’s a fair trade off. Plus, at the end of he day, we do not own the blog.

    But, since y’all so kindly allow it, I will say this as an Atlantan and as a southerner: there is no way in HELL Obama will get elected with this preacher hanging around his neck, and nothing Obama says will shake Wright. It’s only a matter of time before someone splices an Al -Qaeda propaganda piece in with footage Wright spewing his hate, because they are basically saying the same thing about America and Americans. And forget Florida with that smear against Israel. Hell, forget ME. If I had been sitting in the audience when Wright started that hate speech, I would have stood up and walked out with my family. Are we to believe that the clips we are seeing are isolate incidents? I’m sure folks are poring over the audience out takes right now looking for Obama. Will he be clapping? Shouting amen? This is egregious and disgusting, and the “uncle” excuse insults my intelligence.

    Man, that felt good to get out. Keep up the pressure, No Quarter. Y’all are doing the Lord’s work!

    • Iphie

      I agree. And to add, not only are people pouring over the audience shots, they’re still pouring over the tapes themselves. Isn’t each Sunday sermon taped and sold? Either way, I think we’re not done with the outrageous and offensive clips from Wright. And the clips we’ve seen have come from a number of speeches, not just one or two, so the excuse Obama has given that he somehow missed the offensive speeches is going to look more and more ludicrous the more clips are produced from different speeches. I really do think that this is just one scandal too many for the Obama campaign, especially as this one looks like it’s not going away anytime soon. How many shady characters can Obama make excuses for? He recently said he still considers Tony Rezko a friend. He considers Rev. Wright to be an uncle. How many lapses in judgment can we be asked to excuse from the man whose sole claim to the presidency is his judgment?

      The Wright issue is immediately resonant with people — we immediately see a man cursing and damning America, and we see connections to Obama that are easy for everyone to understand — he married Barack and Michelle, he baptized their children, he brought Barack to Jesus. And he is rabidly anti-American. Rezko is a little bit more involved — but this one, this is easy to grasp.

      Oh, yeah, and Nancy Pelosi? She supported Al Wynn. Looks like people are getting used to ignoring her voting preferences.

      • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

        Yes. The Rezko thing is complicated and boring and who knows, really?

        But these Wright tapes are simple fact, and so are Obama’s taped statements supporting Wright. These speak for themselves. Fox and talk radio will play them (and Dems listen in their cars), and the links will go around in emails. This will reach people who never listen to the talking heads or read past the headlines.

        It may take a little time for these to percolate to base Dems, but we’ve got time. Probably by the time Pelosi and those people need to actually do anything, the polls will be showing the effects.

    • chris

      I understand your agreement, but I completely disagree, and it is part of my contempt for the left and its inability to deal with racism and the reality of the world.

      I don’t disagree with much of what Rev. Wright feels. I do believe the US has some culpability in 9/11 from its behavior around the Middle East and abandoning Afghanistan. I would never believe the people who died in the WTC, Pentagon, or Pennsylvania field deserved it at all. But our government with our tacit approval has killed tons more people before that day.

      And I agree with his view that many wealthy white folks are responsible for much of what happens in our poor communities of all color. I agree that the legacy of the US has so much blood on its hands in its treatment of the black community that one can only expect lasting resentments. THE NEED to express such outrage is obvious.

      Where he lost me and frankly discredited himself was when he said Hillary had never been called the word that Obama may have been called, but lets be honest, she’s been called all the names that can sexists can call her for YEARS. So I’m sure she can relate.

      My friend tried to say, “but he was saying that to respond to whether Bill Clinton should be called America’s first Black President…”
      SO WHAT, She has been called vile sexist comments and to make the standard for understanding it be actually experiencing it is ludicrous and self serving. I don’t believe white men can say that, but women who have been called these vile names certainly could relate to the humiliation. Give me a fucking break, preacher man.

      Then to buy into the “aids was intentionally inflicted on the black community” is intellectually dishonest. I would agree that Reagan’s admin, Bush I’s admin willfully ignored the AIDS epidemic, and their willful ignorance was supported by their homophobic and racist views. But without evidence on the level of the Tuskegee Experiments, its a leap. I’m open to facts on this.

      But the bottom line for me about how this affects Obama is that he has now waffled in his support for his mentor, spiritual teacher. If it were me, I’d have said, “what is wrong about what he said?” and played it out, if I was a loyal $22,500 donation level friend of the church. He threw him under a bus in these interviews. “Well, uh…he’s like that crazy uncle ya got.”

      Yeah?
      Well, I’ll defend my fucking uncles against Obama anyday, or Hillary Clinton, or that pencil twit Hannity. Where is this guy?

      “Uh rezko was just a friend, er a minor consultant about land, er…major campaign force behind my career, er..never got influenced by him, er…judge me…er…”

      This is where my problem with Obama is rooted.

      As for Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s comments or those of Michelle Obama, I view it from my card carrying Democratic Mom….she was offended at Mrs. Obama’s sudden pride. She said to me, “oh, now she’s proud because America accepted her husband? give me a fucking break.”

      My mom is a bit old school compared to her radical, can’t understand how he got that way, did I raise him, politically active son. I tried to talk about reparations with her and she didn’t want to talk about it. She has also been clear that the reason is that this happened a long time ago and she’s not racist and our family never owned slaves because we were too poor historically.

      Unfortunately she’s incorrect about a couple ancestors including Henry Zorn of NY who had 13 slaves and was a blacksmith in the RevWar of the US. Mostly the rest of the family never did, but it doesn’t matter to me. I want repairing. I want the action of repairing our nation’s racial divisions and inequality with such a passion I’d make Obama look like fucking David Duke if you got me going. (slight joke don’t go ballistic).

      But her voice is common around many many newspaper comment sections, in CSPAN calls in the morning on Washington Journal, and in many of the blogs and areas of middle america who do not like racially charged political talk.

      I think TalkLeft should grow up and let the dialectic work its wonders. You are not going to see America get behind its racist past by not letting people talk about Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

      Now on our Youtube channel, when I posted clips about William Ayers, I said clearly, “we will not accept posts that deal with Rev Wright because they are off topic. Comments will deal with Obama’s connections to Ayers or the Weather Underground.

      But in the post we just put of Major Garrett’s interview, its open season, so long as it isn’t stupid and can be sourced.

      Malcolm X was wise to say:
      “It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks.”

      And the reality remains, especially with constant reports of nooses, swastikas, racist practical jokes involving nooses, whiteface…etc…that the attack on the black community continues.

      But if Obama is going to be President, he can’t simply become president by having the overwhelming support of resentment and division. He’s got to be President for everyone. His waffling has exposed him as a fake. His lies about what he knew and when he knew it reveal him as an opportunist.

      Rev. Wright is arrogant in his teachings. He is boisterous beyond what Jesus taught. And though I know he is accepted in a certain context, he is quite out of the mainstream of thought in America and an extremist in his views and delivery. This is a major achilles heal for Obama.

      It wasn’t Hillary Clinton who played the fucking race card or even the gender card. It isn’t Clinton who benefits from playing either card.

      The division of the Democratic party lays squarely at the foot of Barack Obama and his staffers, especially that fucking weasel David Axelrod, who is the typical white left racist prick you’re mama should have warned you about.

      Conclusion: Fuck David Axelrod, Fuck Daily Kos, and Fuck Talk Left.

      have a great sunday, go to church, and tell me that your pastor rants like a rooster while he or she teaches you humility, kindness and grace.
      AMEN

      • chris

        sorry: already wrote lots there, but shame on Rev. Wright for saying “God Damn America”. That is the main shot he fired that should tank his protege Obama.

        • simon

          understand your agreement, but I completely disagree, and it is part of my contempt for the left and its inability to deal with racism and the reality of the world.

          Well, your right, it’s an inability to look at Wright , and Obama, and acknowledge truthfully the meaning of his words, and thoughts. Pelsoi hears the truth in regard to Wright’s comments, the implications of wright’s comments, and she diverts it right to her spam file, without a second conscious thought. So it sits there like psychic baggage, for lack of a better word.

          (There is no escaping the subconscious…lol)

          And this “god damn America” well, it gives the Republicans a giant opening, and in terms of real leadership, (and this is why I despise Pelosi), it is incredibly detrimental to the American psyche. The Republicans traditionally pick up the wreckage men like Wright leave behind, and exploit it, against the democrats, for electoral gain.

          That boomer Democratic just doesn’t get it.

          An analogy would be to Fleas’s analysis. He shows this number, now, at this time, but, say, he instead swung it toward Obama. Pelsoi then makes a decision on March 16, based on a photo Flea took on March 14th, say, to exclude Clinton, based on Flea’s analysis, and proceeds with a plan based on Fleas numbers for March 14th.

          But she doesn’t counter in Wright’s comments, realistically, because she disregarded it as a threat, due to her discomfort with the subject matter, her inability to anticipate or admit the damage Obama is doing. She also DOES NOT Understand the greater republican game plan. So in three weeks, by April 10th, say, Fleas analysis is no longer accurate, because the republicans, by exploiting wright, rezko and Michelle, have drained off 30 of the independent vote. Hell, even some Obama supporters are wavering, choosing instead to vote Republican. Pelosi, though, by not recognizing Wright as a huge Liability, by not UNDERSTANDING the republican game, or being too OBTUSE to understand the republican game, does not adjust, missing the contingency, entirely, sticking with Flea’s original projections, even though the numbers are obsolete, it flying over hew head like a 747 doing an aerial loop while Karl Rove sings “that’s amore,” by Dean Martin.
          And by the time the numbers have trended down, it’s too late, though they will pretend it isn’t, and they will lose.

          The voters can’t be told, like an abused child, they are worthless criminals, to blame for every transgression this nation has committed. And Pelosi fails to understand this greater point, WORDS DO MATTER, and when they are disingenuous crap, people know.

          Rove will exploit this, Pelosi will psychologically ignore it, because it is inconvenient, and she is bottom line not comfortable with fighting the republicans. She will lose, and so will the Democrats, she cannot read, and she cannot adjust to fight the Republicans, even though they telegraph their game plan over and over.

          I would suggest it’s flawed planing, on the democratic level, and it is , but ultimately she, they, cannot understand how to fight, she makes BAD DECISIONS based on a HORRIFCALLY flawed model. But since she doesn’t even ask the right questions, she says to me she really doesn’t know what she’s doing. Why the FUCK do they want to put a corrupt piece of shit in the White House? Bottom line, how fucking irresponsible is that, tells me, and Karl Rove, all we need to know about the delusional Nancy Pelosi.

          Pelosi shows the UTMOST contempt for the voter.

          She wants those seats?

          To accomplish what, exactly?

          I’m hard pressed to name a weaker democratic party.

          Period.

          And the sad thing is, the republicans know exactly what I’m speaking of in regard to this matter, and respond.

          • simon

            If the democrats were to play it smartly, they should have supported Edwards.

            Clinton is next best, despite Bill’s baggage, woman wise, say.

            Clinton is their best bet to win, less to exploit, the strongest candidate against McCain regarding intellect, stability and experience.

            Obama is trash, if you wanted to lose, you pick Obama.

            Pelosi is a fucking idiot.

            • simon

              Cheney,Bush and even McCain’s disrespect for the voter is exhibited by corruption, how they exploit the system.

              Obama is well, all of the above, plus he’s Obama the tard.

              Edwards and Clinton resepct the voter the most, maybe being children of the lower to middle classes.

              The more they respect the voter, the less corrupt they are, rule of thumb, the better leader they will be, all other factors being equal.

              • simon

                “Obama the Tard,” it was a lost work of Shakespeare, written shortly after King Lear.

                I’ll have to see if I can find my copy, I know I have it here, somewhere.

        • simon

          Wright is a brand, like Apple is to the Kos supporter.

          So, if the Kos supporter identifies himself by his Mac, and uses it as an identifier to others, Wright is the identifier to people of faith, and others, HIGHLY significant.

          The democratic elite ignore it at their own peril.

    • kenoshaMarge

      The whole Wright thing is gonna blow up whether TL allows people to discuss it or not. You’re right Kathy, their blog, their decision, but that doesn’t keep me from having the opinion that it needs to be discussed. BTD thinks that Obama has a better chance in the general. But will that hold true with Wright hanging around his neck?

      I have heard from several lifelong Democrats, Senior Citizens like myself, that they would never vote for Obama after hearing that his “preacher” actually said “God Damn America.” Many of them are angry about the Bush Administration, as I am, angry about the wimpy Democrats or treasonous Blue Dog Democrats in Washington, as I am, and had been pretty much guaranteed to vote for whatever Democratic candidate was nominated. Now, not so much.

      They are angry about the whole damn Michigan and Florida fiasco;

      Who the hell is the DNC to deny people their vote?

      is the thing I hear most. This is going to be very ugly for the Democratic Party if Obama is the candidate.

      Too many bridges burned by Obama fanatics and too many things being found out about him now.

      Unfortunately, McCain will look far better to a whole lot of senior Citizens than a man who sat in church while his Minister said “God Damn America”. Doesn’t matter if he was really there or not if the perception is that he was.

      I could never vote for McCain but I could never vote for a phony like Obama either.

      • Irish1139

        I am one of those Seniors you are talking about.

        Who the hell is the DNC to tell me my Florida vote doesn’t count. I have already told them if Hillary is not the nominee, there will be one less party member at the election.

        Chris Matthews this morning on his show was exclaiming that so many people have registered for the democratic party in Pennsylvania. Isn’t that wonderful. They all got Obama’s “Democrat for a Day” letter.

        Are the superdelegates aware of Obama’s “Democrat for a Day” letters.

        Are they aware of the crap his people are pulling to get so many delegates at these caucuses. Why isn’t someone with a camera capturing all this on tape? And taking testimony from the Clinton people who are locked out of the caucuses?

        What is plan B for the election. Do we vote? Do we not vote? Do we start a new party? I can’t vote for Obama and I can’t vote for McCain. A vote for Nader would be a waste. What is everyone going to do?

        • Andy

          Not just in a mailer: have you watched Obama’s TV Ad above exhorting them to switch from Rep. to Dem. only for the April 22 since it is easy to change back and forth.

          Obama says: do whatever to sink Hillary, I don’t care what you do in the GE….

          • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat


            Not just in a mailer: have you watched Obama’s TV Ad above exhorting them to switch from Rep. to Dem. only for the April 22 since it is easy to change back and forth.
            Obama says: do whatever to sink Hillary, I don’t care what you do in the GE….
            ——————

            Above? I didn’t see a link.

            Pls everyone who can play it, archive it for us. For the Superdelegates, we need evidence that Obama’s thing is not bringing in new Dems that will stay Dems, but bringing in temporary saboteurs.

            1950democrat @ gmail.com

    • Fleaflicker

      I agree with you that this Wright stuff is going to stick around. And like you, I agree that if I had been there when something like this was said I would have walked if not run out of the place. And never returned.

      And it takes a serious willing suspension of disbelief to accept that Obama knew nothing about these sermons. 20 years in a church like this with a Reverend like that and one expects that he has said this type of stuff more than the few examples that are making it around the news cycle. It is only rational to make the assumption. To buy into the argument that they were isolated incidents or that Obama did not experience them one would have to be under a spell or something. Or belong to a cult.

    • Mary

      Yes, Kathy, Jeralynn threw me off because I mentioned Rev. Wright , quoting his exact words. Her email called me “racist.”

      I am “auntmo,” and I won’t return to TalkLeft.

      YOUR posts were marvelous, by the way. :)

      • Andy

        What??? She called you a racist for quoting Wright ??

        Are you serious? Unbelievable….

        Their decision not to talk about it was in itself sending a message. I guess we now know what their message is….

        Very disappointing.

        The issue of Wright and Obama is not a personal matter of a man and his faith. It was about antisemitism, hate-speech, a very public issue entirely relevant to the election and Obama’s run.

        • Mary

          I thought so, too, Andy.

          Given that I am the woman who actually taught in an inner-city ghetto school for years, and LOVED those kids, Jeralynn’s accusation offended me deeply.

          And I never, ever, saw any Jeralynn-types, or Baraks, or Michelles, or Oprahs, down in the hood when I worked there every day.

          NO ONE calls me a racist. NO ONE.

      • Mary

        Forgot to add, Kathy: Jeralynn made the “No Wright” rule AFTER she threw me off. There was no such rule before then.

  • JoeySky

    Pelosi doesn’t want a tough boss. She want an easy man with no experience so she can spin him around. Same motive as TK and JK, they want someone that they can push and shove to get the thing they want. They can’t do that with Hillary. So all in all, this is another politician-as-usual comment.

    Ferraro is my hero. Pelosi doesn’t have backbone.

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

      Wow, Joey. What an astute, if cynical (ha!), observation. I like how you observe these situations … you’re sharp.

      • JoeySky

        thanks Susan. I really don’t care much about Pelosi’s comment.
        I have so much faith in Hillary’s ability that the Super Dupers will have no choice but select her.

        If not, DEM will lost this GE first, and House majority later. We will go back to GOP absolute rules.

        God Bless America.

      • jwrjr

        “The power of clear vision is called cynicism by those who have not got it.” George Bernard Shaw

    • RMC

      Ferraro is too good for words. She should never have given in.

      • chris

        I didn’t see her give in. She simply recognized that she had to speak for herself. I think I know what you mean, but she hasn’t changed her tune due to pressure. All the more reason to respect her, unlike that nitwit Obama who spits you out when you don’t make his palette sing.

    • kenoshaMarge

      Could be your assessment is right.

      Let me add my own 2 cents worth. I think Pelosi is: (1) liking being the most powerful woman in the Demcratic Party and doesn’t want another woman stealing her thunder. Selfish but human.

      (2) I think she believes in the same kind of conciliatory politics as Obama and thus he’s more her “type” of politician than Hillary. The word was that she was a tough old pol but she’s shown no signs of that whatsoever. The only time she’s been tough was when she took other Democrats to the woodshed if they stepped out of line. Otherwise she’s been pure Jell-O.

      (3) I think the Democratic Party has all ready decided that having a AA President would make us look “better” and thus the world would see us as “racist no more”. They believe they can erase the images of the victims of Katrina that showed us for what we are to the people of the world.

  • http://thehorizontalworld.blogspot.com/ mary jo kopechne

    I guess it only matters if you don’t want John McCain for president.

    I’ve never voted for a republican but I will NEVER vote for Obama.

    Surely the Clintons have a strategy for dealing with the rule-bound incompetency of Pelosi.

    • Fleaflicker

      I am right with you there about not voting for Obama.

      BTW.. I really like your site.

  • ChicagoIL

    Thanks for the link. I sent her an e-mail saying that if she kept trying to insert herself and her influence in the primary I would vote McCain in Nov.

    • Andy

      ChicagoIL: good that you emailed her. Thanks.
      Pelosi’s behaviour is disgusting.

  • RMC

    It’s been a while since this campaign was about issues. Obama’s attempt to ‘extend’ health care is about as lame as anything else he’s ever said or done. I honestly can’t stand the man or listen to his speeches. He’s like an automaton. But I see strings leading up to Axelrod, Daley, Plouffe. I don’t like it.

    I don’t like people NOT looking into the issues. The US is the only country in the western civilised world with such a crappy social system. Heck – even Wikipedians admit it! Cold clear look at things: people in the US continue to get the shaft from the powers that be. For those really in the dark here a few clips from George Carlin at YouTube are recommended.

    In the face of this the big money are pushing Obama because they know full well he ain’t ever gonna stand fer nuthin’. He can smell money a mile away. No issue is too sacred, no cause so obvious he can’t bend to the will of money if needs be. Make health care more affordable?

    But this – THIS – is how people vote. They vote because Hillary is a woman. Or because they are women. Or because BHO is supposedly black. Or they’re black.

    They don’t vote for Hillary because matriarchy is better than patriarchy. Most of them probably don’t even know there’s such a word.

    They vote for Hillary because some spiritual Merlin said this or that. Or they vote for BHO because he stands for ‘change’. Change from what and to what they have no clue. IT SOUNDS GOOD.

    This is the body politic. The fuel for the most militarised power in the world. The potentially most dangerous country in the world. And that’s how they vote.

    So get the campaign back on track. It’s about ISSUES. It’s about Hillary has a vision; she’s without compromise; from Day One she’s going to kick butt there in Washington DC and get things done and yes she’s going to turn the country topsy turvy. But that’s what you want. That’s what you need. If you don’t want to be polarised from the rest of the world anymore.

    Will it be easy? Heck no! Will she be able to accomplish all she wants? Of course not! But at least she’s going to try. And you don’t see a single other candidate even promising to try!

    Politics: dirty. Make promises, get elected, forget promises. That’s the patriarchy way. Hillary don’t work like that. She doesn’t care how the good old boys carry on. She has things she wants to do; things the country needs to get done; she has a plan and she talks about the plan.

    Concentrate on the plan. People in the US are getting systematically screwed like nowhere else. They’re getting royally screwed and they don’t know it. Enlighten them. Educate them. Show them how other people live – better. Tell them what they need to know to mobilise efforts to promote their own human rights.

    Get the campaign back on track. Talk about the issues again.

    • JoeySky

      Good point. Let’s talk about issue again.

      There will be a debate coming up and I heard that some scientist group want to ask candidates about research and funding. Maybe we can talk about that beforehand. It might be very interesting. HRC will be sharp again.

    • Mary

      The Obama campaign made his “judgement” a key issue.

      Ergo, his judgement in attending Wright’s church and taking his children there IS an issue.

  • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

    UPDATE: at the end of the piece, I just added a sampling of Michelle Obama’s negative attitude about America — it’s so clear she shares Rev. Wright’s ugly view of America and of whites.

    • Fleaflicker

      I absolutely agree with you. Her association with Wright explains a lot of things.

      • Fred C. Dobbs

        Does she remind you of Winnie Mandela?

    • Nellie

      From every article I have read, Michelle Obama is a super BITCH – and I do not often use that word. She really believes she entitled.

      In the New Yorker article Turthteller linked to, she was telling blacks she and Obimbi are not trust fund ppeople and that “Uncle Dick” SHOULD set up one for them.

      She is someone I would not deal with no matter her color. What people in this country need to understand is that Rascism or Bigotry is NOT bounded by color – it’s endemic all over the planet.

      My favorite example was a student named Sanjay I had from India. He arrived at the age of 24 for grad school. Like all others from Inida he had finished his undergrad work in Engineering. Moreover, Sanjay lived in my upper middle class house in my upper middle class neighborhood for FOUR years. (He was such a mess I had to get a years extension for him)

      When Sanjay arrived, he was 24 going on a very shy 14 emotionally. His mother had literally saved his life by putting him in a boarding school at the age of 10. His father despised him because he had inherited his fathers family dark skin, instead of his mother’s family light skin. Father apparently would find reasons to beat him until he was bloody, and had even broken his bones more than once.

      In India, they NEVER vebalize anything bad about their families. It did not take long for me to see there was a huge problem. Everytime Sanjay’s father called, he literally wet his pants. Over a couple of months, I finally learned his father liked his “alocholic” beverages. The guy was obnoxious even when I answered the phone.

      Well in the third year Sanjay lived with me, dear old dad decided he would do some checking up on sonny. He would call at 10:30 or 11:00 at night to see if Sanjay was there. I had finally gotten Sanjay to go out with young people, and yes there were two clubs they frequented. Must have looked like clubs in Dubai do today – very multi ethnic and interantional.

      One night at 9 PM the doorbell rang, and there is Sanjay’s father with bags, determined to stay at my house. He was loaded, and nasty. I closed the door on him and called the police. While waiting the 7 minutes until they got there, Sanjay’s father was pounding on my door, yelling, and totally disturbing the neighbors. I am the one who had him arrested, and I am the one who went to court and pressed charges.

      Sanjay admitttedly was a mess for a couple of months. His father got 3 months and extradition. Then Sanjay, after many converstations, realized I had done the right thing. I had to say over and over, No One, not even God himself, comes to my home, and plans to beat anyone bloody. It is against the law and against any human decency.

      Several calls to India after that, and Sanjay had finally gotten my message through to his mother and siblings.

      Sanjay’ fahter arrived back in India a changed, and more humble person. It was good for the entire family. When Sanjy graduated, I had his mother, and siblings stay with me. Not fully truting him, I had Dad stay at the Holiday Inn.

      Sanjay went home and married within a few months. Even to this day I get calls and cards saying how Sanjay is a much better father, and more attentive to his children’s individual personalities. One visit by Sanjay’s married family provided me many opportunities to speak alone with his wife and children. I saw for myself that those four long interminable years, and my firm stand, really had helped the next generation in his family.

      Racism and Bigotry are UGLY, no matter what part of the world they exist. Change can come, but it is not easy. Consistency and repetition, over, and over can solve the problem.

    • http://vbonnaire.wordpress.com valentine bonnaire

      Something seems very very wrong about the video above to me. Since when does a candidate use the web to tell voters to re-register like this?

      It seems like voters know how to vote and can make up their own minds about how they are going to do that.

      I think there needs to be a reform about what is being done in the web in regards to all future elections, and this kind of tactic needs to be explored by the media VERY soon.

      • Andy

        I even think this was a TV Ad…. Amzing isn’t it.
        He sais hey, it is easy switch so we can sink Clinton and then it is so easy you can switch back for the GE. Sounds like solicitation….

    • Lyn

      Susan, Sorry if I posted this already, this place moves so fast and I couldn’t find it and thought you’d be interested in the article http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JC04Aa01.html
      Sing, o muse, the wrath of Michelle
      By Spengler

      The wrath of swift-footed Achilles, of which Homer called his muse to sing, nearly lost the Trojan War for the Greeks. The wrath of swift-tongued Michelle Obama well might lose the White House for her husband. We had a peek into her diary last week when the Obama campaign finally made public her undergraduate thesis, titled “Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community”. The contents of this remarkable document sharpen the profile of Obama’s women that I offered last week (Obama’s women reveal his secret Asia Times Online, February 26.)

  • http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/buck_naked_politics/2008/03/clinton-positiv.html D. Cupples

    HI Susan,

    Frankly, I don’t think superdelegate voting should be a choice between the nationwide popular vote and the pledged delegate vote.

    Many superdelegates are elected representatives of a particular state. Should State X’s superdelegates ignore the majority of their constituents and vote with the majority in some other state or district?

    Surely, Ms. Pelosi — as a state rep — should understand superdelegates’ need to not vote against their own constituencies.

    • AF catfish

      Pelosi is basically changing role of Superdelegates midstream. She needs to release a statement correcting her comments.

      • http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/buck_naked_politics/2008/03/media-obama-goo.html D. Cupples

        AF Catfish,

        I agree, and I just copied my comment (edited version) into the email form at Pelosi’s website. It can’t hurt!

        • Andy

          Indeed, it can’t hurt. Thanks for emailing her D. Cupples.

    • Fleaflicker

      But you either are not aware of the purpose of superdelegates or you misunderstand their purpose.

      Superdelegates were created to lend unbiased weight to the candidate they thought had the best credentials to not only carry the mandate of the majority of the electorate but to actually win in November.

      They were created specifically to NOT be aligned with the popular will of the electorate. Their purpose is to act as party elders and to support the candidate most qualified to WIN.

      A reading of history explains this all. This is not something new. Or anything that Hillary has just made up to benefit herself. These are party rules.

      It seems that the Obama supporters are all for party rules when they benefit their campaign (disenfranchising FL and MI) but totally against them when there is a potential to benefit Hillary (superdelegates).

      • Nellie

        It is HOW super delgates are chosen that disturbs me.

        Donna Brazile if a prima facia example. I do not believe she speaks as a representative of anyone, but has somehow gotten power to inflict her own bias and ignorance on the rest of us.

  • Anne

    Aside from being completely offended that Obama thinks we are all so stupid that we would believe that in 20 years Obama had no idea – no idea – that his spiritual pastor was giving sermons and making speeches that were so hate-filled and so incendiary, I am beginning to worry that rather than uniting the country, Obama is holding a lighted match awfully close to the gasoline that is simmering racial tensions. I can’t be the only one who got a knot in my stomach when I heard Wright and then put that together with the coded messaging and unrelenting accusations of racism against the Clintons and anyone who dares to support her; it was chilling.

    But, as with all things Obama, from Rezko, to Nafta-gate, to Reverend Wright, I would fully expect that his response to any, shall we say – unpleasantness – to be, “Who Knew?”

    I know there is more coming – there has to be. If he were a real leader, he would just rip the band-aid off instead of taking it off in millimeters.

    • Fleaflicker

      There is much more coming.

  • Hope

    One need only look at San Francisco politics to understand Nancy Pelosi. Once you understand the tone of The City, you will easily grasp for whom and what she stands. There is a saying in The City: “A true San Franciscan never leaves The City unless he/she is traveling to Europe.” In other words, the rest of the USA is regarded as a nation beneath the civilized level of SF. Thus we get the kind of arrogance we see from Pelose. Holier-than-thou!

    Susan: I’ve also had to turn on Fox News to get my information regarding Rev. Wrong. Something huh? I never thought I’d see the day.

    Thank you for your hard work.

    • AF catfish

      I live here and you speak pretty much the truth. Also here, Pelosi is considered practically a Republican. She could be reacting to pressure from her constituents.

      • Hope

        Wow a Republican huh? I left The City over l5 years ago so I guess things haven’t changed much?

  • wacacc

    I see the passion on this site but I have to tell you, it doesn’t look good to an outsider. It may seem like if you can get just fifty percent plus one in the primaries you’ll have won, but the rest of the country isn’t going to see it like that. They’re just not going to elect Hillary Clinton president.

    Please don’t call me an Obamabot. I was for Kucinich and then Edwards and I’m not hypnotised by Obama. To me the issues got buried behind personalities and media myth-making. If we could have stuck to issues the Democratic party wouldn’t be in this mess.

    Republicans aren’t going to cross over and vote for Hillary. Anti-war people aren’t going to vote for Hillary. People who don’t want tax money going to the health insurance industry aren’t going to vote for her. And average people in the middle have been treated to a pretty scary view of a power hungry person. It’s time to start folding up the tent before any more damage is done.

    • JoeySky

      what do you mean by folding up tent then?

    • AF catfish

      wacacc,

      I’m sure you mean well but how well did your first two choices do with the mainstream american voters?

      Believe it or not, Republican women are voting for Hillary. Disaffected Republicans may stay home, but if Obama is the nominee, they will be so scared for the future of this country they will show up and vote McCain.

      • Hope

        I have been a lifelong Democrat, but I will NEVER vote for Obama just to see a Democrat take the Executive Branch. The thought makes me ill. I fear for this country if he becomes the next president.

        • http://vbonnaire.wordpress.com valentine bonnaire

          Ditto, given Flineo’s “Forgotten ones” video.
          He waffles, and he has turned on his own people.
          He is not a Democrat in his heart, when you watch the video you will see. Larry has it here, I have it or you can go to youtube and watch all his films in there by just using “flineo” as your search. You will weep, if you are a Democrat, a Republican, a Green, an Independent I believe.

          He is inhuman.

    • Fran

      BUT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE VOTING FOR HILLARY!!! You underestimate her (and us). People are always telling us she can’t win. And then she does. She doesn’t quit–and neither will we. If you read the analysis of electoral politics and how much better she fares in the general election stats you will see that she is a much better candidate for the GE. She consistently holds the core Dem vote, and is much more competitive in the swing states than Obama. Just because there is a false characterization of her out there does not mean we have to enable and endorse it. GO HILLARY!

    • Iphie

      I’m an anti-war person and I’ve already voted for Hillary.

    • http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/buck_naked_politics/2008/03/media-obama-goo.html D. Cupples

      Wacacc,

      You bring up some valid points. Given how emotionally invested many voters are in the primaries, many Dems will be disappointed whoever the nominee is.

      It may not end well for Dems, but November is a few political lifetimes away. A week or so ago, the public hadn’t foreseen the Ferrarro or Rev. Wright stuff. A month ago, the public hadn’t foreseen that Goolsbee and Power would make such credibility-damaging gaffes.

      It’ll be interesting to see how this turns out. As I look to the future, I just can’t predict a thing, so I’m not betting money on anyone.

      Incidentally, that someone supports Obama does not make the person irrational or brainless. Reasonable people can disagree about candidates.

      • simon

        Incidentally, that someone supports Obama does not make the person irrational or brainless

        Yes, it does.

        Obama is a liar, connected to Auchi, Saddam’s former bagman.

        This is not OK, if you think it is, you’re fucked.

        Bottom line.

        The minute you start rationalizing what Obama has done, you’re fucked, you’re no longer dealing with reality, you are no longer making good decisions in regard ot the future of this country.

        It reads like prosaic, run of the mill army propaganda shit, specious thinking from some people, truly amazing they considered themselves educated.

        And, in regard to Pelosi, say, I can see where she is weak, and other can now ops her. So say I”m a foreign power waging war against the US asymmetrically, and I see a doofus President and a doofus speaker of the house, given to denial, and immaturity, dependent upon a culturally unsophisticated, narcissistic doofus statistician to make decisions.

        YEE HAW!

        What do foregin ops see when they look at Washington?

        Good eats.

    • Sam Copeland

      The General Election strategy for Senator Clinton is very clear.

      She polls very well among “soccer moms” and Latinos — two groups lost by John Kerry. (Soccer moms are those who identify with the GOP on the basis of class but the Democratic Party on the basis of gender and thus are the ultimate swing vote. Kerry lost them due to national security issues as will Obama). These two groups will make her competitive in enough “purple states” to win the overall election.

      Specifically, if she carries all the Kerry states (very likely) she will only need 18 electoral votes to win the election. Here is where they can come from (electoral votes in parentheses):

      Florida (27): she is slightly stronger than McCain with seniors; strong with Latinos.

      Ohio (20): her economic policies play well with “Reagan Democrats”.

      Arkansas (6): She was first lady of the state and knows it well.

      Missouri (11): She ran extremely well in rural areas during the primary (unlike past Democrats); if she can secure the St. Louis base of primary African-Americans, then the state is blue.

      New Mexico (5) Gore won it in 2000 and Kerry lost it in 2004 because he didn’t run well with Latinos; Clinton wins it with strong Hispanic turn-out.

      Nevada (5) Migration into the state has it trending blue; Clinton polls well with Hispanics and the state is in her win column.

      West Virginia (5) Hard economic times coupled with Clinton’s strong national security emphasis is enough to win this state.

      Other states in play include: Colorado, Virginia, and North Carolina.

      Now that is the electoral strategy. Here is Clinton’s winning message strategy.

      1. It’s the economy stupid; McCain has already noted that he doesn’t know what he is doing in this regards.

      2. Return the Democratic party to its liberal (FDR/Truman/JFK) roots by emphasizing national security. Do this by pointing out the failures of the Bush administration to make our national safer and stronger and show how democrats use the full force of America power (diplomacy, information/public diplomacy, military, and economic power) as opposed to the GOP who depends on our military to do all of its work.

      3. Link Bush to McCain and McCain to Bush. Thanks to McCain’s mom for providing the video footage for this ad (recall how she said her son stood up for Bush).

      4. Show that the straight-talk express is really just the double-talk local-yokel by pointing out inconsistencies on such thing as tax cuts (against it now for them) and his judgment on the war (claimed it would be an easy win at the beginning now claims he always said it would be hard).

      Now, let’s see the electoral and message strategy for Obama. Any one care to venture into that realm or would you like me to do it?

      • http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/buck_naked_politics/2008/03/media-obama-goo.html D. Cupples

        Sam,

        I want you to do it. Please. I’m enthralled. That and I don’t really know the various states’ voting patterns.

        • Sam Copeland

          Glad you asked.

          Obama’s general election strategy is to pick up dissatisfied independents — the ones that think everyone (including Democrats) in Washington DC is to blame. This is why he attacks Senator Clinton as the same old politics in DC. His strategy is to unite the left-wingers, African-Americans, and independents who are normally mildly conservative to conservative. This is why his economic policies are more conservative than Clinton’s (to appeal to the tax-cut seeking independents) and he trumpets his opposition to the Iraq war (which is not popular across the board). I have always thought this strategy was difficult to pull off — a conservative economic policy shouldn’t appeal to the left (but apparently, Obama has done enough trickery to pull this off).

          This is why I agree with a number of posters who stated that Pastor Wright’s sermons means Obama will lose the general election. These remarks totally turn off independent voters leaving Obama with only his left-wing and African American supporters plus about 75% or less of Clinton supporters.

          As an aside, this attack on the Democratic party as “politics as usual” is not going to help in down ballot elections. Why vote for a Democrat if they are as much to blame as Bush?

          Now for the state analysis.

          First, it is not clear that Obama can carry the Kerry states (electoral votes again in parentheses):

          Michigan (-17): Obama dissed state in primary; state has a high number of Reagan Democrats and was a state where George Wallace did well in and thus Obama may not appeal to these voters; the key for Obama to win is to re-establish that he is truly opposed to NAFTA.

          PA (-21): The state is similar to MI in ethnic make-up; he will do well in Philly but not enough to off-set the rest of the state.

          And I will go out on a limb on this one: I think New York (-31) may also be in play for the GOP; while NY has gone consistently for the Democrat at the Presidential level, races in the state legislature are much closer; the western half of the state is conservative but that tends to be dwarfed by NYC which is liberal. However, the antisemitism of Wright’s sermons may reduce Democratic support in NYC; if McCain chooses a moderate running mate, I think this state is in play.

          Now what states can Obama pick up?

          Colorado (9): This is his best chance. The state is reddish-purple, but if Obama can energize voters in the Boulder area then he has a shot.

          New Mexico (5): One of the factors that hurts Democrats in this state is an active Green party that siphons votes from Democrats. If Obama has better luck with these voters and can turn out some Hispanic votes, he might win.

          After that, it becomes more difficult for Obama. Virginia is his next best shot but he must find a way to run better in the more conservative western half of the state; Jim Webb is from that part of the state and look how close that election was.

          In looking at the states Clinton wins, it is clear that Obama has little chance: Florida (Obama doesn’t poll well with seniors), Ohio (NAFTA fiasco will hurt him), Arkansas (no ties to the state), Missouri (doesn’t run well in rural areas), Nevada (doesn’t poll well with Hispanics) and West Virginia (same problems as in Ohio and PA).

          Now what is Obama’s message strategy?

          1. I am not the usual politician and will stand up to the lobbyist. This will be neutralized by McCain by (a) pointing out Rezko, lobbyists, earmarks, etc. and (b) showcasing his own independent record.

          2. The economy. McCain will portray him as a tax and spend liberal (by listing Obama’s laundry list of new programs) and thereby neutralize him on this issue.

          3. National security. McCain will first speak broadly of national security and emphasize Obama’s rookie status (the Pakistan remark; negotiating with dictators, etc.) He will neutralize the Iraq war issue by showing that Obama doesn’t know what he is doing — withdraw troops from Iraq only to send them in if AQ comes back; point out Obama favored a surge in 2004 but now is against it, etc.

          4. Obama will link McCain to Bush; this is his best campaign strategy. McCain will try to dampen it by saying where he disagreed with Bush, but Obama will have the advantage here.

          Bottom line: Obama loses the general with 223 electoral votes to McCain’s 315 (assuming that more doesn’t come out on either Rezko or Wright).

          • http://papertigertail.blogspot.com otherlisa

            Wow. This is right on, both your Clinton and Obama analyses. I am not as familiar with the electoral math as you are (not by a long shot) but from what I do know about campaign strategies, I think you’ve nailed it here.

      • Andy

        Sam Copeland: Your GE strategy sounds good.

        Now, let’s see the electoral and message strategy for Obama. Any one care to venture into that realm or would you like me to do it?

        Please do, go ahead !

    • Northwest rain

      Ohio was given a choice and they overwhelmingly told Obama to go to hell — largely because Obama lied about NAFTA. Voters in other states have a right to make their choice.

      I don’t believe all of Obama’s shoes have been dropped — I believe that even more nasty secrets are going to be exposed in the days and weeks to come.

      Every time the Obamabots show up demanding that Sen. Clinton quit for the good of the party — we learn one more of Obamacon’s nasty secrets (NAFTA-gate, Rezko, Rev. Wright and ??????).

      So far people have been voting on the ILLUSION of someone called Obama. But now the voters are getting a look behind the curtain and they don’t like what they see of your candidate.

      Obama is a liar — he keeps changing his story. People don’t like liars. He’ll get a core group of kookaid drinkers — but if the worst happens and he walks away with the Dem nomination — he will lose BIG in November.

      There is no way that I will vote for a misogynistic megalomaniac like Obama. The guy is one of the dirtiest politicians I’ve seen — and he or his handlers scream — racist — if anyone tries to ask questions about his background. Turns out that HE is the racist. Anyone who goes to that racist church for nearly 20 years and doesn’t hear the in your face racism IS a racist.

      Way back in the late 60s there was a group in the Bay Area called the Black Panthers. I wondered what happened to the Black Panthers — and now my question has been answered. Trinity Church in Chicago seems to have much of the Black Panther dogma as part of their religion.

      Ironically Rev. Wright’s “jesus” is Obama — who isn’t a poor black man, but a well off bi-racial, raised by his white mother and white grandparents. It’s sort of like Obama finding a group who needs a messiah — so he becomes their messiah.

      This information isn’t news to the GOP — they’ve been sending around email about Obama’s racist church for many months. Ironically someone sent me email about Obama’s church and I deleted it — deciding it was far fetched gossip.

      There is no way Obama is going to win the General Election in November — if the DEM leadership is so stupid to force Obama on us. Nearly everyone I know will NOT vote for Obama. I won’t vote for him — ever.

    • chris

      “Republicans aren’t going to cross over and vote for Hillary”

      And Republicans aren’t going to vote for Obama either. They will be voting to be Republican again. Now, I know there are some Republicans who voted for Obama because they seriously are sick of the GOP, but then…they aren’t Republicans anymore. But the majority of Republicans who went “democrat for a day” are not going to vote Democratic in November. Show me anytime in history where that occurred and I’ll reconsidered.

      Independents might, but I know many independents who will only vote for Hillary or (hold their nose) and vote for Obama. And then there are some who will now simply vote for McCain because they already hated Hillary and they really don’t like Obama.

      So it isn’t as easy as saying “obama will increase the party’s size” by swaying Republicans, the way Pelosi and others seem to be naively counting on.

      Those Dems for A Day, are not Dems at all, never will be. They were encouraged to manipulate the system in the DNC to get rid of Clinton or whoever they voted AGAINST.

      And if the “middle america” voter you referred to doesn’t want to be taxed, don’t vote for Obama either because you can guarantee his xeroxed copies of Hillary’s plans will likely include taxes. Unless you have another failed promise from him like Bush I “no new taxes”.

      Anti-war folks, who I know best, may not vote for Clinton, but since they didn’t stop the war, haven’t gotten impeachment, are relatively few in numbers and thats something they just haven’t gotten used to. I know, I’ve spent too long with the various organizations and they are politically ineffective.

      Ya know, footnote here about Anti-War pride in Obama’s great speech of October 2002:
      I pointed out to my dear lady tonight that I too said what Obama said in 2002. She remembers it too. I said almost the same thing, no links to AQ, no WMD, diversion for oil, etc..
      “but you too said that.”
      “honey, I know you love me and all, but even then, do you think I’d make a great president?”
      “uh…”
      she said no…but tried to be nice.

      Obama would have you believe this is the greatest ultimate test of judgement.
      Then why did he slip and slide Friday in his quibble about Rezko and go from “boneheaded” decision, to “”The mistake, by the way, was not just engaging in a transaction with Tony because he was having legal problems. The mistake was because he was a contributor and somebody who was involved in politics.”

      “My assessment of Tony Rezko was that he was an immigrant who had sort of pulled himself up by his bootstraps,”

      SO much for his superior judgement. He’s a flake.

      • Sam Copeland

        Chris is correct about Republicans not crossing over to vote for Obama.

        If it were true, then you would expect to see head-to-head polling data of McCain v Obama to show a 10 pts or more advantage to Obama. They don’t. These polls are very close (nationwide) and are also close in battleground states. The same is true in McCain v Clinton polling. The one difference is that not all the negatives are out about Obama (unlike Clinton) and this will drive his numbers down by November.

        There will not be the massive realignment that the left is hoping for but instead another election determined by a few battleground states.

        These massive realignments happen every 30-40 years so we are due. The last one happened — not because of Reagan as Obama claims — but due to Nixon. Nixon realigned the electoral map with his Southern Strategy and appeal to white racism. Nixon took advantage of Southern discontent with the racial equality policies of the Democratic party that went back to 1948 and Thurmond’s Dixiecrats. Reagan merely cemented this electoral strategy with his rhetoric and has left us with the current configuration.

        Today’s political climate is more like the 1932 election where there is massive discontent with the Republicans (Hoover) that resulted in the New Deal realignment. In this realignment, there was extensive economic pain that allowed FDR to develop a coalition of both industrialized workers and farmers. (Interestingly, farmers had been involved in the populist movement earlier with W. J. Bryan but this movement failed to coalesce into victory until FDR; Huckabee’s economic message tapped into that same vein, even to the extent of providing a phony, weak solution to the pain — Bryan’s free silver v Huckabee’s sales tax).

        I believe we face the same depth of problems as we did in 1932, although our nation may not fully realize this as they did in the throes of the great depression.

        Thus, to begin a realignment like the one in 1932, one must do two things: (a) be clear on the issues and problems facing the nation and (b) provide solutions to those problems. This, of course, is the exact campaign that Senator Clinton is running, and it is why I am so proud to support her.

        In contrast, Obama is running a campaign that stokes the discontent (everyone including Democrats are to blame in DC) and provides a laundry list of solutions that change depending on audience. Obama’s approach is very similar to that of Huey Long who ran a primary challenge to FDR in 1936. Huey was long on rhetoric, vague on solutions, and, of course, corrupt back home in Louisiana (or what that Chicago?). This approach is capable of producing short-term political gains. However, in the long-run, the tactic is divisive (as supporters square-off against non-supporters) and merely stokes the discontent as the hoped for change never manifests itself, leaving people more angry and cynical about their government.

    • JP

      So who are the 12 million people who have voted for her? And who are the people in the Obama fold who say they will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee? What about the Democrats who are more than happy to vote for McCain if Obama was the nominee?

    • Fleaflicker

      This anti-war person HAS voted for Hillary!

    • Andy

      Anti-war people aren’t going to vote for Hillary.

      This anti-war (Iraq, Iran) person has voted for Hillary Clinton.

      • http://papertigertail.blogspot.com otherlisa

        Me too!

        • simon

          The other point being we need to elect the person who can solve the Iraq crisis, not the poser wannabe, the one with no job experience, or, for that matter, no remarkable contributions as a student, even.

          What has Obama accomplished, again, that makes him worthy of the Presidency?

          NOTHING.

    • Nellie

      Power Hungry – Given Obama’s history, totally discreditable actions, and his shameful associations – I would say that applies to just one person and that is Obama.

      The misogyny and abuse both Hillary and Bill have exrerpienced this election is totally gutter level. GHWB desrves all the abuse in the world, but like it or not, Bill Clinton was a pretty good President, and EARNED the respect of people all over the planet.

      You need to understand something. I, and from the last Rasmussen Poll Susan published before the Wright fiasco, 41% of us Democrats WILL NOT vote for Obama- Period. I will even go further and say I will not vote Democrat if Obama is on the ticket. Research has shown me that he definitely belongs in jail, and not anywhere near the levers of governance or power.

      The Greeks use to say that the CHARACTER of their leaders predicted the future of their city states. That is as true today, as it was then. Obama’s character is absolutely reprhensible.

  • QuietOne
  • Mel

    One matter people seem to be catering to on the Dem side unfortunately is the black population and attempting to not piss them off!

    What they are forgetting is a larger base of population which they are neglecting is the latino population which is larger than the black pop. who overwhelmingly went to Clinton!

    With McCain the GOP nom, and his lax attitude on Illegals, Latinos could easily sway to McCain and not Obama, which seems to be taken for granted they will, but they won’t!

    Black voters though will not vote GOP, as they are the most affected portion of the pop when their is a GOP in power!

    The objective of this race is to regain the Whitehouse, when you eliminate more than 10 of Obama won causus states that are strong GOP states, the rational in te fall is to look strongly at the states which will carry the Dem Party to the WH, they are not the states Obama has won, they are the Clinton won states!

    One note, if Pen State goes 85% Clinton in April, she wins all the delegates and is tied with Obama, long shot but still a possability, especially in this year and it being deep into the Rezko trial when it comes around and the avoidance by Obama of Rezko will surface more!

    Dean and Pesoli should shut up and stay neutral instead of influenccing things!

    • simon

      One matter people seem to be catering to on the Dem side unfortunately is the black population and attempting to not piss them off!

      No, the issue needs to be discussed, the problem is Republicans, and even Axelrod, would exploit this issue, to the detriment of the country.

      Neither apparently capable of intelligent nuanced thinking.

  • truthteller2007

    Michelle Obama is out of touch with the mainstream.

    • Hope

      A hateful, mean-spirited woman with a grudge.

    • Nellie

      Great posts below and thank you for all your hard work.

      This comment:

      Michelle Obama is out of touch with the mainstream.

      A major understatement perhaps, to put it mildly?

  • Fleaflicker

    I feel betrayed. I supported Nancy Pelosi. I watched as she became Speaker of the House. In fact, I cried with joy when she assumed the gavel.

    But no more.

    I completely agree with you that Pelosi has crossed a line. Not only has she taken sides but she has ignored the basis of creating superdelegates to begin with.

    If I had the money to do so I would mount a serious campaign against Nancy Pelosi. I now fully support Cindy Sheehan.

    If I had those imagined millions I would superimpose Rev Wright’s heinous comments with those from Nancy Pelosi that will be revealed tomorrow. And none of us with any sense don’t know what she will say.

    • AF catfish

      Please write her, flea. Every note, letter counts. Write before Monday so she knows her weekend comments to George Steph. did not go over well.

    • The Gringo’s Wife

      I have to agree on Pelosi. I kept rationalizing the new Democratic management from the start. Now I see they are simply ineffective leaders.

      This is the year of true change. And those that stand in the way risk everything.

      Incredible moments in history we are living, aren’t they?

      And better than at any time in the past, each and everything is being recorded. There will be no escape for anyone! Truths, lies, predictions …

      (Goo’nite Tucker. Miss you not already.)

    • chris

      I felt betrayed by her the day she said, “impeachment is not on the table.”
      This prejudice of hers is a direct attack on her own oath. She told me who she was the moment she said that. The wrank arrogance of her and others who decide political superiority is sickening.

    • kenoshaMarge

      I doubt too that our emails will make any difference. After all the public’s rage at Democrats for not doing what they were elected to do, i.e. end the occupation of Iraq hasn’t changed anything. The fact that she took impeachment off the table is another sign that she doesn’t give a damn about what the people think or want.

      I was overjoyed when a woman was finally elected to be speaker of the house. Now I am once again sadly disappointed because she may be a woman, but she’s quite obviously not the right kind of woman; a woman with guts.

      So I emailed her not believing for a minute that she’ll pay any attention. But I got in my 2 cents worth and feel better for getting some of the bile out of my system. But not much better.

      • simon

        AF mentioned if she screws this up, she loses the speakership.

        Serves her right.

    • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

      Cindy Sheehan? Anyone but Pelosi, but I took a look at a Sheehan site (blogs?) and saw some strong support for Wright and Obama being expressed there. ???

      • TeakWoodKite

        She supports who she supports, but she is the one with the table out in front of “deer in the head lights” Pelosi’s office.

  • fooj

    EVERYTHING seems to be “off the table” with Pelosi, doesn’t it? She sickens me. What an embarrassment.

  • DisenfranchisedVoter

    Great article! I just emailed Pelosi. I can’t believe our party right now. Wasn’t there an article that said Clinton supporters are more likely to vote Democrat downticket than Obama supporters? What is Pelosi thinking right now? Does anyone know whether she has personal animosity or jealousy towards Hillary Clinton? Or is it really because she wants an inexperienced politician she can control? I agree with SusanPC. I will be so disgusted with the Democrats and progressive orgs like MoveOn that I won’t be giving them any money for a very long time and will be weary of supporting the politicians who support Obama.

  • Andy

    Susan, Larry:

    Does what we are doing here matter?

    YES IT DOES !! ;-)

  • truthteller2007

    I quote the article SusanUnPC cites at the end of the article:

    Oh, woe is her! Just listen to how deluded this person is:

    “You’re looking at a young couple that’s just a few years out of debt,” Obama said. “See, because, we went to those good schools, and we didn’t have trust funds. I’m still waiting for Barack’s trust fund. Especially after I heard that Dick Cheney was s’posed to be a relative or something. Give us something here!”

    Give us something here?

    Can you believe this nonsense? You want to know how much this couple has been given lately?

    The Obamas’ financial standing has risen sharply in the past three years, largely as a result of the money Barack earned from writing “The Audacity of Hope.” In 2005, their income was $1.67 million, which was more than they had earned in the previous seven years combined.

    [...]

    Just after Barack was elected to the United States Senate, Michelle received a large pay increase-from $121,910 in 2004 to $316,962 in 2005.

    Still want someone to give you something, Michelle?

    Michelle Obama’s sense of entitlement is a major liability to Democrats in the general election. Who is this woman?

    • Nellie

      Because she went to Ivy League schools – she seems to think that the world now owes her. Talk about the arrogance and bigotry that she accuses others of having!

      The French adage applies: Qui accuse, s’accuse!

      Someone should give her a MIRROR so she can see how her words reflect back on her.

  • Shirin

    “Larry and I — and all of you who read and comment here — are unafraid to look at the underbelly of Barack Obama.”

    I came back to see if the madness of the season had abated at all. I see it has not. If anything the frantic quality of it has increased. What a shame. This used to be an interesting place to come to and discuss – before it became one of the best sites ever for McCain’s campaign to draw from.

    And it is really too bad you are not equally “unafraid” to take a truly critical look at Hillary Clinton – you know, she whose heart is so thoroughly invested in children’s rights – as long, of course, as those children do not have the misfortune to be in the “wrong” countries – i.e. Arab or Muslim ones. If you did take such a look, she would not look a whole lot better overall than Obama does.

    Here’s some reality about Hillary’s great “heart” for the rights and welfare of children:

    “In her autobiography, Living History, Senator Hillary Clinton portrays herself as an advocate for children, a defender of women and human rights. In fact, the Clintons have a long history of sacrificing the rights, even the lives of children, for political expediency.

    “On September 6, 2006, a Senate bill–a simple amendment to ban the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas–presented Senator Clinton with a timely opportunity to protect the lives of children throughout the world.

    “The cluster bomb is one of the most hated and heinous weapons in modern war, and its primary victims are children.

    “Senator Clinton voted with the Republicans to kill the humanitarian bill…

    “It is hard to believe that Senator Clinton was unaware of the humanitarian crisis when she voted to continue the use of cluster bombs in cities and populated areas. A U.N. weapons commission called cluster bombs “weapons of indiscriminate effect.” For years the international press reported the horrific consequences of cluster bombs on civilians. On April 10, 2003, for example, Asia Times described the carnage in Baghdad hospitals: “The absolute majority of patients are women and children, victims of shrapnel, and most of all, fragments of cluster bombs.” Reporting from a hospital in Hillah, The Mirror, a British newspaper, became graphic: “Shrapnel peppered their bodies. Blackened the skin. Smashed heads. Tore limbs. A doctor reports that ‘all the injuries you see were caused by cluster bombs. The majority of the victims were children…’”

    “Even after wars subside, after treaties are signed, after belligerents return home, cluster bombs wreak havoc on civilian life. Up to 20 percent of the bomblets fail to detonate on the first round, only to become landmines that later explode on playgrounds and farmlands. Children are drawn to cluster bomb canisters, the deadly duds that look like beer cans or toys before they explode.

    Clinton on Landmines

    “Because Clinton is now taking credit for the White House years, when she was a partner in power, we should also look closely at the Clinton policy regarding landmines, an issue of great concern to parents, to all those who care for children.

    “In December 1997, 137 nations, more than two-thirds of the world, signed the Ottawa treaty, an agreement to ban the use, production, stockpiling and transfer of anti-personnel landmines. How did the Clintons respond to world opinion, to the humanitarian movement against landmines?

    “President Clinton flat out refused to become party to the Ottawa convention. As he put it, ‘I could not sign in good conscience the treaty banning landmines.’ In ‘good conscience’?! Are landmines good for children?

    The Clinton Sanctions Were Calamitous

    “Senator Clinton is currently trying to build a campaign around her experience in the White House…The Clinton sanctions afflicted the entire Iraqi population. Child mortality, as well as the death rate for the elderly and the chronically ill, skyrocketed. Malnutrition debilitated the country. Irrigation and sanitation systems collapsed. Common diseases multiplied. The Iraqi medical services, the most advanced medical system in the Mideast prior to the sanctions, fell apart. Farmers ran out of fertilizers and machine parts. Thousands of trained professionals fled the country. The sanctions, combined with surprise bombing raids, destroyed the entire infrastructure.

    “Contemptuous of human rights and world opinion, President Clinton blocked Russian and French proposals to end the sanctions.

    “Senator Clinton has never disavowed the sanctions or the racist attitudes that made them possible. In fact, she is now calling for sanctions against another country in the Mideast–Iran.

    “…it is clear from her record–her voting record and her White House experience–that Senator Clinton, like her husband, does not measure human rights by one yardstick. The lives of Arab and Iranian children are measured on a different scale. We need a president who cares for all God’s children, not just the white kids depicted in her Red Phone ad.“

    • http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/buck_naked_politics/2008/03/media-obama-goo.html D. Cupples

      The cluster-bomb amendment was not simple. Here it is (from Thomas):

      “Sec. 8109. No funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act my be obligated or expended to acquire, utilize, sell, or transfer any cluster munition unless the rules of engagement applicable to the cluster munition ensure that the cluster munition will not be used in or near any concentrated population of civilians, whether permanent or temporary, including inhabited parts of cities or villages, camps or columns of refugees or evacuees, or camps or groups of nomads.”

      The way it’s written, the cluster bombs couldn’t even be transported — which I doubt is what the drafter meant.

      What about the case where an unexploded cluster bomb was found on the side of a road? The sloppy language of the amendment seems to make it illegal to pick it up and transfer it to another location.

      Frankly, though, I’ve NO IDEA why Hillary voted against the amendment.

      • Shirin

        These bullshit excuses will not do. Either Hillary Clinton cares about children or she does not. She has a long and clear record of ignoring the rights and well-being of the “wrong” kinds of children. The claims that “her heart is with children” ring hollow to the children of Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, and other countries.

        • simon

          I hope you’re doing well, Shirin, long time no see…

          lol

      • Nellie

        Good information – Thank you!

    • Andy

      Shirin: you don’t understand. We know very well Sen. Clinton’s record and we support her with our eyes wide open.

      Question is: will Obama supporters insist on he
      being “holier than thou” and continue to vote for him with your eyes wide shut?

      We are trying to learn who Obama really is. Do you?

      These posts are because we are discovering very troubling aspects of Obama (e.g. Wright). And these are facts about who he is. Nothing you say about Clinton will change these facts.

      As I said, we know who Clinton is, thank you.

      This post&thread is about Pelosi and some elite media outlets. So you are way off topic here.

      BTW, who are you cutting and pasting from anyway?

      • Shirin

        I don’t give a damn who Obama really is. I am looking at the candidates’ records and statements on real issues and policies. On that basis I cannot support either Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama, and I do not find the demonization of one and glorification of the other to be realistic or even very sane.

        As for supporting Hillary Clinton with your eyes wide open, I doubt it. If you did you could not bring yourselves to demonize Obama as this site is doing, nor could you manage to demonize Clinton as other sites are doing.

        In both cases it is the advocate of pot calling the kettle black. But more importantly, this site in particular is providing a lovely encyclopedia of anti-Obama talking points that will be excellent fodder for the McCain campaign.

        And I guess Larry, Susan, and their acolytes will be endorsing and voting for McCain in November if Obama is elected, in which case they will lose me forever.

        • Andy

          As for supporting Hillary Clinton with your eyes wide open, I doubt it. If you did you could not bring yourselves to demonize Obama as this site is doing

          This paragraph doesn’t make any logical sense.
          (I mean as what your learn in logic)

          So, Shirin which site where you cutting and pasting from above?

          You have to provide the appropiate links when you quote (or cut&paste). No her votes all the other commentary there. Source?

        • Andy

          Shirin, actually I think this is all contradictory:

          You say you won’t support Obama nor Clinton but that if Obama is the nominee and Mc Cain wins it’s Larry & Susan’s fault.

          So, I gather you’d be angry if McCain wins the GE. Okay.

          Would you be angry if Clinton is the nominee?

          I am not clear who are you supporting for the US Presidency. Nader?

        • Hope

          Oh stop the melodrama will you! If you don’t like this site then go elsewhere. Why do you bother yourself so?

        • kenoshaMarge

          Oh good grief as if the Republicans need to come to a liberal blog to find their talking points. I may not like the Republicans and their tactics but I would never be so silly as to underestimate their ability to invent and use talking points to undermine Democratic candidates. They don’t need any help. Add in that they don’t bother with sticking to the truth and you have a system they invented, perfected and use with ruthless efficiecy.

          Of course it doesn’t hurt to have the media in your pocket either, but what the hell, who is still naive enough to think the will of the people has anything to do with the government of this country.

        • Nellie

          Hi Shirin,

          Welcome back! It is good to see you here again. How was your trip?

          For those who do not know, Shirin is a long time and HIGHLY RESPECTED poster here. She is an expert on the Mid-East and her insights are invaluable.

          Shirin, I have some Idea(s) to move things a bit – but my paltry experience in education definitely requires the input of someone like yorself.

          If you see this comment, please email me at

          stefankn at gamil dot com.

          Thanks, and look forward to hearing from you.

          • simon

            For those who do not know, Shirin is a long time and HIGHLY RESPECTED poster here

            I have to disagree, Nellie, I smell some old 70′s European mold.

            Shirin’s thinking in regard to America, and the middle east is very one sided, not allowing for more effective methods of diplomacy.

            On Iraq, Shirin advocated, the last I read, anyway, an immediate withdrawal, despite the mess Bush has made.

            What would be the net result of an immediate withdrawal, for all parties?

            Shirin then said something about the Iraqis wanting us out, as it is their country.

            And it is, but the Iraqis will face far more bloodshed, and horror with an immediate American withdrawal.

            The Iraqis should be able to make an informed decision, right? And which Iraqi ethnic group, all of them want us out, or just a couple sects of Shia, say?

            And Shirin ignores the possibility OTHER countries are also gaming Iraq, for their own benefit, Russia, China, and the EU all have a stake in energy, it would be STUPID to think otherwise.

            The US WILL build schools, and hospitals, if a competent President is elected.

            See, there are so many factors one has to recognise, whether one wants to, or not.

            I’m always surprised to see such one sided, specious opinions passed off as expert.

            • Shirin

              Simon and I have been over and over and over this numerous times, and the only thing that has been clear is that he don’t listen very well at all. Further, it appears that his is a typical western colonialist-racist “white man’s burden” point of view. So, it is a complete waste of time to try to revisit any of this with him. However, it might be useful for others to hear, so I will respond.

              “Shirin’s thinking in regard to America, and the middle east is very one sided, not allowing for more effective methods of diplomacy.”

              My thinking in regard to America and its dealings with the Middle East is, in part, the thinking of someone who has witnessed and experienced the receiving end of American Middle Eastern policy.

              “On Iraq, Shirin advocated, the last I read, anyway, an immediate withdrawal, despite the mess Bush has made.”

              Simon has it wrong as usual. I urge a quick, rapid, and complete withdrawal, and I do so not despite the mess the Americans (and not just Bush) have made, but BECAUSE of it.

              And as for blaming the mess on Bush, that, like blaming the mess America is in in general on Bush, is short-sited and self-serving. In fact, the mess America has made of Iraq is the doing of a succession of administrations beginning in the ’60′s with American support of Saddam Hussein and others of his ilk. However, the beginnings of the present-day mess can be traced directly to Reagan and Bush I, whose salivating support of Saddam is very well documented, and who did not merely turn a blind eye to his excesses and horrific human rights violations inside and outside of Iraq, but who actually knowingly facilitated them. Then came the post-Kuwait-invasion Bush I regime that began the process that brought a once-thriving Iraq from emerging first-world status to sub-third-world devastation.

              And then there was Clinton, whose policy of regime change by strangulation and periodic battery of of the population – all enthusiastically supported by Hillary – was designated as genocidal by two UN Humanitarian coordinators for Iraqi and the Iraq Director of WHO. By the time the Bush II regime moved in with shock and awe followed by its attempts at “economic shock therapy”, not to mention its program of political, social, and cultural deconstruction and transformation (complete with torture, “Salvador options”, etc., Iraq was barely a shadow of itself, and a once-thriving society was already in tatters.

              What happened after that was 100% predictable, and most people, including Shirin, who actually know and understand Iraq and Iraqis, predicted it with considerable accuracy.

              “What would be the net result of an immediate withdrawal, for all parties?”

              A big sigh of relief for most Americans, tinged with various degrees of disappointment and anger that they were allowed to fail at achieving domination in a small, horribly weakened country, and a conviction on the part of quite a few that somehow they had let The Terrorists™ win, despite the fact that The Terrorists™ have never had anything to do with any of it.

              For Iraqis, a long, difficult slog to settle the mess the Americans have made of their country over the last three or four decades, some continuing bloodshed, but decreasing over time, and perhaps some decades of an oppressive theocratic regime, thanks to the Americans, or perhaps not. After that, who knows? But at least it will be their country.

              “Shirin then said something about the Iraqis wanting us out, as it is their country.”

              Wrong again, Simon, as usual. Shirin has repeatedly attempted to hammer home the fact that the overwhelming majority of Iraqis across all ethno-sectarian lines, including even Kurds, want the United States out of their country and the sooner the better. Most recently this came out loudly and clearly – as it always has – in the surveys and focus groups conducted by the United States occupation regime (and it was absolutely fascinating to see how they have tried to spin that into something positive for the occupation!). It is safe to say that virtually the only Iraqis who want the United States to remain are the approximately 15-20% of the population who are benefitting personally, politically, and/or economically from their presence. The other 80-85% want you out of their country and out of their lives. And they want you out not “as it is their country”, they want you out because they understand clearly that you are the root problem, and things will never begin to improve for them until the problem has been uprooted.

              And, of course, it IS their country and they should have a right to decide for themselves how it is run and who is allowed to run it, although you seem to think it is not up to them, but up to you, the Great White Father, to decide everything on their behalf.

              “And it is, but the Iraqis will face far more bloodshed, and horror with an immediate American withdrawal.”

              That is a self-serving assumption that has no basis in either historic or present-day reality. It is an assumption typically held by people, most of whom have never set foot in Iraq, who have no direct experience and no real day-to-day knowledge of Iraq and Iraqis, the historic or present-day dynamics of Iraqi politics or society, and who base their assumptions on the limited and highly inaccurate information they glean from the media and a few mostly self-appointed “experts”. It is an assumption shared by very few people who do have direct experience, knowledge, and understanding of the dynamics of the country and its society and politics.

              “The Iraqis should be able to make an informed decision, right? And which Iraqi ethnic group, all of them want us out, or just a couple sects of Shia, say?”

              1. Shi’a is not an ethnicity, it is a sect of Islam which crosses ethnic – and, by the way, tribal – boundaries.

              2. The vast majority of every single ethnic and religious group want you out. That includes Sunni, Shi`a, Kurd, Turkmen, Assyrian, Chaldean, Armenian, Catholic, Protestant, Yezidi, Mandaean, etc., etc.,you name it, the majority want you out, and within a year at most. But what really matters is not how those ignorant of Iraqi society try to divide Iraqis by sect and ethnicity. What matters is that an overall majority of Iraqis want you out within a year at most. That’s 80-85% of all Iraqis living in Iraq. And of course Simon thinks that what 80-85% of Iraqis living in Iraq should be ignored in favour of assumptions made by him and other Americans.

              “And Shirin ignores the possibility OTHER countries are also gaming Iraq, for their own benefit, Russia, China, and the EU all have a stake in energy, it would be STUPID to think otherwise.”

              Unlike Simon, Shirin simply thinks that is none of Americans’ business. Unlike Simon, Shirin simply does not believe that America has a superior right over anyone else to game Iraq for its own benefit, and unlike Simon, Shirin simply thinks that is Iraqis’ business who benefits from a relationship with Iraq. Further, unlike Simon, Shirin has confidence in Iraqis’ ability to make their own decisions about such matters, and that American ought to have to stand in line with everyone else rather than using its deadly and destructive military might to gain the head of the line.

              “The US WILL build schools, and hospitals, if a competent President is elected.”

              Did it EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND that the U.S. is not the only one capable of building schools? Did if EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND that Iraqis might be capable of building their own schools? And did it EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND and that the party that spent twenty years or so destroying what was once one of the finest education systems in the region (and in many ways better than the American system) might not be the part to build shools?

              Did it EVER occur to Simon at all that the criminal who raped and beat his victim half to death is not the best choice to guide her rehabilitation? And did it EVER occur to Simon that the victim of this rape and beating might not be a helpless, ignorant, incapable person in her own right?

            • Shirin

              Simon and I have been over and over and over this numerous times, and the only thing that has been clear is that he don’t listen very well at all. Further, it appears that his is a typical western colonialist-racist “white man’s burden” point of view. So, it is a complete waste of time to try to revisit any of this with him. However, it might be useful for others to hear, so I will respond.

              “Shirin’s thinking in regard to America, and the middle east is very one sided, not allowing for more effective methods of diplomacy.”

              My thinking in regard to America and its dealings with the Middle East is, in part, the thinking of someone who has witnessed and experienced the receiving end of American Middle Eastern policy.

              “On Iraq, Shirin advocated, the last I read, anyway, an immediate withdrawal, despite the mess Bush has made.”

              Simon has it wrong as usual. I urge a quick, rapid, and complete withdrawal, and I do so not despite the mess the Americans (and not just Bush) have made, but BECAUSE of it.

              And as for blaming the mess on Bush, that, like blaming the mess America is in in general on Bush, is short-sited and self-serving. In fact, the mess America has made of Iraq is the doing of a succession of administrations beginning in the ’60′s with American support of Saddam Hussein and others of his ilk. However, the beginnings of the present-day mess can be traced directly to Reagan and Bush I, whose salivating support of Saddam is very well documented, and who did not merely turn a blind eye to his excesses and horrific human rights violations inside and outside of Iraq, but who actually knowingly facilitated them. Then came the post-Kuwait-invasion Bush I regime that began the process that brought a once-thriving Iraq from emerging first-world status to sub-third-world devastation.

              And then there was Clinton, whose policy of regime change by strangulation and periodic battery of of the population – all enthusiastically supported by Hillary – was designated as genocidal by two UN Humanitarian coordinators for Iraqi and the Iraq Director of WHO. By the time the Bush II regime moved in with shock and awe followed by its attempts at “economic shock therapy”, not to mention its program of political, social, and cultural deconstruction and transformation (complete with torture, “Salvador options”, etc., Iraq was barely a shadow of itself, and a once-thriving society was already in tatters.

              What happened after that was 100% predictable, and most people, including Shirin, who actually know and understand Iraq and Iraqis, predicted it with considerable accuracy.

              “What would be the net result of an immediate withdrawal, for all parties?”

              A big sigh of relief for most Americans, tinged with various degrees of disappointment and anger that they were allowed to fail at achieving domination in a small, horribly weakened country, and a conviction on the part of quite a few that somehow they had let The Terrorists™ win, despite the fact that The Terrorists™ have never had anything to do with any of it.

              For Iraqis, a long, difficult slog to settle the mess the Americans have made of their country over the last three or four decades, some continuing bloodshed, but decreasing over time, and perhaps some decades of an oppressive theocratic regime, thanks to the Americans, or perhaps not. After that, who knows? But at least it will be their country.

              “Shirin then said something about the Iraqis wanting us out, as it is their country.”

              Wrong again, Simon, as usual. Shirin has repeatedly attempted to hammer home the fact that the overwhelming majority of Iraqis across all ethno-sectarian lines, including even Kurds, want the United States out of their country and the sooner the better. Most recently this came out loudly and clearly – as it always has – in the surveys and focus groups conducted by the United States occupation regime (and it was absolutely fascinating to see how they have tried to spin that into something positive for the occupation!). It is safe to say that virtually the only Iraqis who want the United States to remain are the approximately 15-20% of the population who are benefitting personally, politically, and/or economically from their presence. The other 80-85% want you out of their country and out of their lives. And they want you out not “as it is their country”, they want you out because they understand clearly that you are the root problem, and things will never begin to improve for them until the problem has been uprooted.

              And, of course, it IS their country and they should have a right to decide for themselves how it is run and who is allowed to run it, although you seem to think it is not up to them, but up to you, the Great White Father, to decide everything on their behalf.

              “And it is, but the Iraqis will face far more bloodshed, and horror with an immediate American withdrawal.”

              That is a self-serving assumption that has no basis in either historic or present-day reality. It is an assumption typically held by people, most of whom have never set foot in Iraq, who have no direct experience and no real day-to-day knowledge of Iraq and Iraqis, the historic or present-day dynamics of Iraqi politics or society, and who base their assumptions on the limited and highly inaccurate information they glean from the media and a few mostly self-appointed “experts”. It is an assumption shared by very few people who do have direct experience, knowledge, and understanding of the dynamics of the country and its society and politics.

              “The Iraqis should be able to make an informed decision, right? And which Iraqi ethnic group, all of them want us out, or just a couple sects of Shia, say?”

              1. Shi’a is not an ethnicity, it is a sect of Islam which crosses ethnic – and, by the way, tribal – boundaries.

              2. The vast majority of every single ethnic and religious group want you out. That includes Sunni, Shi`a, Kurd, Turkmen, Assyrian, Chaldean, Armenian, Catholic, Protestant, Yezidi, Mandaean, etc., etc.,you name it, the majority want you out, and within a year at most. But what really matters is not how those ignorant of Iraqi society try to divide Iraqis by sect and ethnicity. What matters is that an overall majority of Iraqis want you out within a year at most. That’s 80-85% of all Iraqis living in Iraq. And of course Simon thinks that what 80-85% of Iraqis living in Iraq should be ignored in favour of assumptions made by him and other Americans.

              “And Shirin ignores the possibility OTHER countries are also gaming Iraq, for their own benefit, Russia, China, and the EU all have a stake in energy, it would be STUPID to think otherwise.”

              Unlike Simon, Shirin simply thinks that is none of Americans’ business. Unlike Simon, Shirin simply does not believe that America has a superior right over anyone else to game Iraq for its own benefit, and unlike Simon, Shirin simply thinks that is Iraqis’ business who benefits from a relationship with Iraq. Further, unlike Simon, Shirin has confidence in Iraqis’ ability to make their own decisions about such matters, and that American ought to have to stand in line with everyone else rather than using its deadly and destructive military might to gain the head of the line.

              “The US WILL build schools, and hospitals, if a competent President is elected.”

              Did it EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND that the U.S. is not the only one capable of building schools? Did if EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND that Iraqis might be capable of building their own schools? And did it EVER occur to Simon for ONE NANOSECOND that if Iraqis need help building their schools they are capable of deciding who should help them, and that the party that spent twenty years or so destroying what was once one of the finest education systems in the region (and in many ways better than the American system) might not be the best choice to build Iraq’s schools?

              Did it EVER occur to Simon at all that the criminal who raped and beat his victim half to death is not the best choice to guide her rehabilitation? And did it EVER occur to Simon that the victim of this rape and beating might not be a helpless, ignorant, incapable person, and might be the best person to choose who guides her rehabilitation?

              • Michel

                Ah Shirin, what pleasure to read you!
                Informed comments from you make such a difference. Funny that we should meet here again as I decided after our email of the other day to also, like you, drop out of No Quarter. Just one last visit, and here you are!!! :-)
                Just like the blind Obama worship elsewhere is jaw-dropping, so is the out-and-out adoration of Clinton on No Quarter!
                On the subject that interest both Shirin and I, namely Iraq and the Middle East in general, how can any minimally savvy person imagine for a “nanosecond” that Clinton or Obama will stop the war, bring the troops home and finally let the Iraqis take care of their own affairs? Democans and Republicrats alike CANNOT leave Iraq, EVER, as it would rule out the only reasons and purposes of being there in the first place: control of the oil and permanent (“enduring”) military bases. And that’s the final, absolute and fundamental BIPARTISAN strategic consideration!!!! Anything else is just happy talk to fool the public. The only ones who would have stopped the war were Kucinich and Gravel, with Edwards and Paul maybe finding and keeping the backbone necessary to do it after their election. But we saw where that bad “unpatriotic” idea got them!!!
                McCain wants the US in Iraq for a hundred years, the difference between Clinton and Obama is about which of them wants the US in Iraq for only 50 or 75 years!? Some improvement!!!
                The solution for the Iraqis is to continue resisting courageously and whack as many of the criminal invading US Schutzstaffel they can get in their cross hair or near enough an IED. Now I can understand how such views are anathema on No Quarter, what with its regular and unseemly soldier worship (“da troops”, you know), but face it: his own violent fiery death is the only language GI Joe and his “supporters” back home understand. The Iraqis have only to make sure that lesson is applied in enough layers so that even the thick-headed flag waving “patriots” finally get the message and agree to leave Iraq without control of the oil, and without bases! And you know this will come to pass, all that “American blood and treasure” (Iraqi deaths do not count) will have been lost in vain!

          • Shirin

            Nellie, my trip begins the first weekend in April, so I cannot report yet on how it was. :o } I am still in the process of making contacts here and there, so many things are not settled, but part of the joy of such a journey is in having the flexibility to make discoveries along the way.

            One thing that has been settled is that I will be having a “college reunion” of a sort in Beirut, where I will be staying with one of our closest friends from university, who has arranged a meeting of friends from our wider circle. They do not know who the “special visitor” is, so it will be fun to see how it all turns out!

            And there will be a brief family reunion in `Amman, assuming the family members are not caught and escorted to the border before my arrival.

    • Fleaflicker

      I do not support cluster bombs. It is a single issue with which I take issue with Hillary. But in the grand scheme of things that difference is minor. I agree with her on nearly everything else. I can’t say the same thing about Obama.

      • Shirin

        So, fleaflicker, I guess you agree with Hillary on land mines? Her husband’s policy of regime change via strangulation and regular battering of the population? Doing the same to Iran to “bring them into line” – with the wishes of the empire, of course? Keeping nukes “on the table”? Israel’s “right” to devastate Lebanon and kill hundreds of civilians over – supposedly – two captured soldiers? Israel’s “right” to oppress, suppress, and starve Palestinians for electing the wrong people in free and fair elections?

        Oh, yes, and I guess you agree with Hillary that the United States needs to continue to pursue its “military as well as political mission in Iraq” including but not necessarily limited to protecting “American interests” there, “preventing a failed state” (read setting up a government the United States can control – one of the original goals of the invasion), battling Iran, fighting so-called Al Qa`eda, “protecting the Kurdish minority” (read maintaining the only ally the U.S. has in Iraq – an ally they have pretty much lost by now, anyway)? In other words, you agree with her non-withdrawal “withdrawal” plans?

  • jackie

    What bothers me is these Democratic leaders keep changing their minds about how super delegates should vote. They need to shut up about that right now.

    They want to dictate how this is going to end, when there are still 10 primaries to go. They need to seat MI and FL. They need to take leadership and say it is unacceptable to be associated with someone who is preaching hate.

    I don’t see the “coattails” with Obama. Are they joking? His base of “Democrat for a day,” and independents will go to McCain. Obama has lost the core Democrats with his arrogance, lying, and treatment of Hillary supporters. He can’t win the big states.

    I know Republicans (conservative) who will vote for Hillary in the GE vs McCain because they don’t like him. But if it’s Obama/McCain they will go for McCain.

  • Exurber

    Larry Johnson is an espoused Republican. Hillary Clinton is using republican tacticts. She is also entirely corporatist and probably paid off by the right wing.

    I believe that both Larry Johnson and Hillary Clinton are rubes for right wing money and exist to infiltrate and neuter the left.

    • Andy

      Did you just come from the bar?

    • Hope

      And you are a freaking dope.

    • kenoshaMarge

      She’s paid off by the right wing that hates her with a passion seldom seen in politics?

      Your deductive powers are sadly deficient. As is your spelling.

    • Fleaflicker

      You are entitled to your stupidity, I mean opinion.

    • simon

      believe that both Larry Johnson and Hillary Clinton are rubes for right wing money and exist to infiltrate and neuter the left.

      And the left fights back brilliantly, dont they?

      Shitheads to the left of me, shitheads to the right…

    • Nellie

      Who are you?

      Larry Johnson is an espoused Republican

      Really? How do you know that? Larry is one of the sanest and most intelligent people in the blogosphere, along with Susan Hu of course.

      As to right wing tactics, hmm let’s count them.

      1. Buses people from out of state to vote in causcuses

      2. Has supporters slam doors on opposition voters at caucuses.

      3. Actively solicits Republicans and Indpedents to vote Democrat in open Primaries and caucuses.

      4. Violates state election laws at will.

      5. Serial liar on just about every topic.

      6. ILLEGALLY BUYS votes, and delagates with Senate Leadership PAC money

      7. Uses Race Card indiscriminately

      8. Misogyny rampant and has resulted in total gutter level tee shirts, mugs, and, as far as I can read, porographic web sites.

      9. Associates with known terrorists and takes campaign money from them.

      10. Pouts and storms away when loses or doesn’t chose to discuss known judgements from the past.

      And who is this RETHUGLICAN – Why it’s Barack Obama!

  • Patrick Henry

    EXURBER..

    You are just saying that because Larry and Hillary are White..

    Do you sit in the same Pew with Obama..??

  • Lorelynn

    People have to write real letters on paper with stamps. Getting 10k emails is easy to deal with. You file ‘em or delete. Dealing 10k physical letters in your office that must be opened and filed is something else entirely. And if those letters say that the writer will not vote for Obama in November or elect any new Democrats, that’s going to have an impact.

    We all need to write the DNC and say we will make no more donations until Florida and Michigan’s delegates are seated fair and square (and that doesn’t mean Obama gets half if he didn’t win half) and, more importantly, that we will not vote for Obama if he is the nominee.

    We need to honestly start an old fashioned letter writing campaign. If Nancy gets thousands and thousands of letters in her office next week, she’ll change her mind. The websites are hearing about the ossification of the split between Obama and Clinton supporters. We need to make sure party leaders do as well. Each and everyone of us should write our senators and reps, as well as Pelosi, Dean, and Reid. It only needs to be a few sentences, In fact, more is a waste of time.

    Really, I’d encourage everyone here to do so. threatening to withhold further donations, and threatening to not vote in November will have an impact. We’re being taken for granted and I don’t like it one bit.

    • DisenfranchisedVoter

      I agree Lorelynn. You should organize a day where all of us send Pelosi a letter, say on Thursday or Friday so when she gets to her office on Monday she’ll have a ton of mail.

      You can write about this on Taylor Marsh’s hot topics and continue to tell people on posts on TM’s forums that whatever day you choose is the “Mail Bomb” day when we each send Pelosi and/or Dean a postcard or letter telling the to seat the delegates or we vote McCain.

      What do you think? I’m willing to participate.

      • kenoshaMarge

        Count me in. If the price of Democracy is a few minutes of our time and the cost of a stamp there is no reason we can’t all do this.

      • Nellie

        Better to organize so they are sent on a Sunday or Monday to her San Francisco office. Otherwise they will languish for 2-3 weeks in DC bfore they get opened, irradiated, and all the other B/S before they even reach her DC office.

  • Laura

    I must say things have really gotten surreal.Is it me or does it seem like everytime Hillary has success the rules of the game change ? Super Tuesday win of California ahh no big deal.Obama victory in MS with 90% AA vote big victory.Hillary double digit win in Ohio oh she’ll stoop to anything to win.On the red phone heck she just asked the question my husband said let people answer it. Obama is a grownup so why all the rushing constantly to protect him.He’s educated at the finest schools and in the ways of Chicago politics he is fully capable of fully demonstrating his readiness. Right? Maybe I’m too sensitive but having gone through the put up job that was the Kansas caucus it is clear that the republican party is giving Obama the delegates Pelosi says are to be determinative.I’m serious the caucus was over 50% republicans. Now let’s think about the argument put forth that this represents an expansion of the voters thereby making it more likely dems will win in november(and of course Obama brought them on board ergo he is more electable).Well Our governor is on the same page as Pelosi and has her own reasons for pushing Obama so fully in KS. I live here and I’m telling you that Kansas is not going to go blue this november. No way no how. If I had any doubt about that (which I didn’t) with Wright’s display that makes it a certainty. There aren’t enough KU kids to offset the voters like my husband who are so offended they’ll leave the party before they’d contribute to Obama’s victory.

    It is painfully obvious that Dean and Pelosi cannot bring themselves to absorb the possibility of Hillary as the nominee. So much so that they have so fully disgusted a sizable enough number of Hillary supporters(many of them women who in 2004 stayed home in the millions costing Kerry the election)that there appears to be a real chance we’ll have round two of 12 solid years of republican presidents.My 19 year old daughter’s first election and she is already sick of the whole thing. She told me she won’t vote for Obama and can’t vote for McCain.

  • myiq2xu

    It would be funny if it wasn’t so important.

    I watched for a couple of days as Obama supporters hyperventilated about the “racism” of Geraldine Ferraro. Not only that, they took it as a given that Ferraro was carrying out instructions from Hillary. (Personally I think Ferraro was guilty of “political incorrectness”)

    But when the Wright scandal broke they suddenly saw no problem, no racism, and argued that “it wasn’t Big O who said it so what?”

    They have been equally disingenuous about the MI/FL situation.

    The truly ironic thing is that they act so sanctimonious and claim that their candidate, and theirs alone, occupies the moral high ground.

  • Northwest rain

    Ms. Gregoire, as Deputy Attorney General, wrote the brief for the famous AFSCME v. Washsington State, that effectively ended comparable worth in the U.S in 1984. Her efforts reversed a judgment of over $800,000 million awarded women employees in the State of Washington.

    When I found out that Gov. Gregoire was supporting Obama I sent her an email — reminding her that she has actively worked AGAINST women and now she was endorsing Obama. I told her I would NOT be voting for her. I held my nose last time and voted for her — but NEVER again.

    Women can be womens worst enemies — and Gregoire has never been a friend to women.

    • Lorelynn

      I remember that brief! Man, that was a gunshot heard through the feminist community. I had no idea that was her. Boy. Oh boy. I can’t believe this.

      ~simmering~

  • bob h

    “above-it-all liberal elite” = narcissistic jerks

  • LuigiDaMan

    Your message about the Obamatails are on target — elected officials who have thrown their existence in with the party’s rock star are going to feel the fallout once the party’s over.

    I have felt, since the great “O’s” speech at the Democratic National Convention that he’d be someone to watch. I thought he needed time to mature. But, the many awful decisions he’s made on, and the petulance he’s shown, on the campaign trail have made me realize that he is not and WILL NOT be ready for primetime ever.

  • Pingback: Reclusive Leftist » Blog Archive » The mood shifts

  • http://Oyvay!!!!andlol Myke

    We are being hijacked guys and gals. The will of the people has never mattered less. We have the media and the Democratic Leadership controlling what will be the outcome. I’m not giving up and I hope nobody else does either.

    Tim Russert is on TV right now talking about Geraldine Ferraro so I am guessing he was asleep yesterday when all the Reverand videos were being shown?

    “Now they want to change the rules”. I keep hearing that from all the people who are trying to change the rules. It’s mind boggling that they just keep repeating things until we can’t take it anymore and just go along with it.

    I will never vote for Barack Obama. I am very happy that the dream team ticket has been shot down because I do not want him in any office. He is a corrupt and dishonest man.

    TalkLeft is just trying to keep Obamatrons from taking over their site. I post there frequently and Jeralyn is pretty fair in general. She just thinks that battling with your own people just fractures us even further. It’s still a good read.

    But this is where I come for the truth. I appreciate all the info I get here because I take it to the streets. I need this truthful oasis in a sea of smoke and mirrors. It helps me back up any argument thrown at me and because I have a big mouth I always have people attack me. They can’t change the truth though so thanks for the amo.

    • simon

      It’s also at this point that you see the slow suicide of a loser, whether it be the Cheney in Iraq, or the Democrats and Pelosi.

      So you walk away, the same as having an addicted family member, if you try to rescue someone with deep psychological problems, you end up destroying yourself, and the addict still goes down.

      So you work on the things you can.

  • http://hillaryclinton.com sara_c

    Hello,

    I AM OFFICIALLY DISGUSTED WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!!!!! I am a white male in my 20s and I have many friends in the military and I was pissed off when Bush took us into an unnecessary war, and knew a DEMOCRAT would win the white house after all the mistakes made….

    And I HAVE TO CONFESS I VOTED FOR OBAMA ON FEB.5, before Michelle’s “finally proud of america” speech, before the Resko stuff, before Obama’s “GOD DAMN AMERICA” preacher became exposed

    Here is a man who is runnign to be a United States President being advised by a preacher who “DAMNS AMERICA”…..HOW DO I KNOW FRAUD-OBAMA will look out for MY INTERESTS AS AN AMERICAN!!!!!!

    WEll, I blocked any OBAMA emails, took my name of their volunteer list, and SIGNED UP WITH THE HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN,

    If Hillary DOES NOT GET THE NOMINATION, THIS YOUNG PERSON WILL TAKE MY VOLUNTEER TIME AND DONATIONS AND MOVE ON OVER TO THE MCCAIN CAMPAIGN!!!!!!

    THANK YOU GUYS for being upfront with the issue…I can’t watch the OBAMA-ass_kissing from CNN or MSNBC ANYMORE!!!!!!

    • Fleaflicker

      I don’t think I would vote for McCain but I certainly won’t support Obama.

    • AF catfish

      sara_c thank you for sharing. Your words are very powerful given that you switched.

    • Nellie

      Very wise moves! Your on line name can create confusion as to sexual identity though.

  • tiffany

    My husband and I will most probably not vote in Nov if this garbage continues. The DNC has angered us with this undemocratic sham of a primary. Let’s not forget Gore vs. Bush. Gore had the popular vote and should have been our president. I will not be able to vote for Obama if he does not have the popular votes and Fl and MI must be included.

    • Andy

      tiffany:

      this is what is so absurd about Pelosi comments on the popular vote. How can she be so dismissive of the popular vote given what happened in FL in 2000 with Gore vs Bush?

      How can Pelosi continue to be the chair of the convention?

      She needs to correct her statements in public fast.

      Email her if you can and wish to.

  • Cee Hussein

    Susan,

    Who are “everyday patriotic Americans” that you write of?

    I know you’ve ruled out people who drive a Prius, latte drinkers and Whole Food shoppers.

    I wonder if those everyday people would mind that Hillary praised Fredick Douglas who said the following:

    “This Fourth of July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn…your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sound of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants brass fronted impudence; your shout of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanks-givings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy — a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.”

    • GodDamnAmerica

      “I know you’ve ruled out people who drive a Prius, latte drinkers and Whole Food shoppers.”

      They should all be damned, according to Rev Wright. God Damn America.

    • Nellie

      Cee,

      I am so sick and tired of you being totally off topic.

      I really liked you at one time. Now it seems you have become a paid shill of the garbage Obama camp.

      How much does Obama pay you to shill on your radio show for him? Are you paid per show or did you get a certan amount? How much do you get to troll this site? Do you get more that Markos?

      Full disclosure required – otherwise just stay over at the Orange Satan PLEASE!

    • http://noquarterusa.net/blot/2008/03/16/does-what-we-are-doing-here-matter/#comment-160863 Spontaneous

      Cee copied and pasted again.

    • Michel

      “This Fourth of July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn…your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sound of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants brass fronted impudence; your shout of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanks-givings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy — a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.”

      Right on target and precisely accurate to this very day!!
      Hear, hear…!!!!!!!

  • Cee Hussein

    GDA,

    Your paranoia is getting the best of you.

    Wright: We’re not on this planet alone. Right now, the average American or the average German or the average Brit couldn’t tell you the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite. I mean, you got Christians who lynch people in the name of Jesus, and you got Muslims who fly planes into buildings. But you got some Muslims who don’t do that. You got some Christians who ain’t got time to lynch people. We need to stop lumping folks together and start living together. Otherwise, we’re going to kill each other off because you don’t believe what I believe. That’s crazy. Before Democrats were quiet because they didn’t want people to think they were fanatics. Barack has broken that ice.

    SPIEGEL: But how far can you go? As Barack Obama points out in his book, “The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream,” religion is more about convictions and truth, whereas politics is about compromise. Where are the limits to introducing faith into the political arena?

    Wright: Let’s take a simple issue. Far right radical conservative Christians want to put prayer back in the school. Now my family may start off the day in prayer, and I’m going to teach my daughters and my sons how to pray. But I’m not going to force your kids to pray like my kids. In public, I have to understand that I’m still going to pray tonight and tomorrow morning, and my girls and my son better pray too. But I’m not going to force my Jewish friends, my Muslim friends, my Hindu friends, my Sikh friends to hear a Christian prayer in a public forum like school. We understand that private faith does not force public decisions. That’s how you work at compromise. I haven’t given up what I believe, but I live in community with — in a city, state, nation, and world with — people who don’t believe what I believe. That doesn’t make them defective or inferior.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,471221,00.html

    • GodDamnAmerica

      “We need to stop lumping folks together and start living together.”

      Peachy!

      If God Damn America is not lumping folks together, I don’t know what it.

      And this one is good too.

      “But you got some Muslims who don’t do that. You got some Christians who ain’t got time to lynch people.”

      Some Muslim don’t do that, some Christians just don’t have the time – if they do have time, lynch they will. Old uncle Wright is good.

    • Nellie

      Wright preaches that Jesus was BLACK – In other words he makes an issue of the color of his and thereby everyones elses skin color as motivation for action. That’s called Racsim and Biogtry.

      Jesus was the color the people of Palestine or Jordan are today. He was a Semite – just like them.

      And what the hell do things like peace, justice, and equality have to do with the color of a persons skin?

      And I CAN tell you the difference between Sunnis and Shias. The Sunnis pray with their arms to the side, and the Shias hold them clasped in front. Then there is a historical difference as to who should have been the religious head after Mohammed, which was more tribal and secular in nature than religious.

      Outward form, which is what the differences are, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the basic message.

      Just as in Japan the depth of the bow, has more to do with the respect you EARN. Yet everyone greets everyone with a bow – the difference being the depth.

      So how does Rev. Wright’s blatant biogtry and outright abuse of the bible help those values you so ardently claim to espouse?

  • http://www.eatbees.com/blog/ eatbees

    In fairness to Michelle Obama, America is a rather mean country. (I could list the coups, attempted coups, insurgencies, assassinations, and friendly dictators we’ve supported over the last fifty years, but you all should know this already.) And from what I understand, African-Americans have had a rather different experience of our national history than the rest of us voluntary immigrants.

    The fact that this sort of thing is coming out now is part of the cognitive dissonance that America will experience if Obama is the nominee, and we come to terms like it or not with the black experience and bring it into the mainstream. (As a sign of how it is not in the mainstream, look at the difference in support fo the Iraq war in the early days, when African-Americans were already strongly opposed.) For now I’m with Hillary, but I’ll gladly support the Democratic nominee no matter who it is, so I hope America is enough of a grownup to accept a little self-criticism and appreciate that not everyone sees us as “nice.”

    • simon

      For now I’m with Hillary, but I’ll gladly support the Democratic nominee no matter who it is

      Obama is corrupt, THAT is cognitive dissonance, understanding he is a liar, connected to terrorists, and still voting for him.

      He is part of the corruption, why would he be any better than a republican?

    • Nellie

      Eatbees,

      African Americans are not the ONLY group that has experienced discrimination.

      I was widowed at the age of 33. The corporate world was brutal for a woman then. Yet I persisted and succeeded until I veered off into education.

      Asian Americans also have had, and still have, problems. Jews, the Irish, Italians – you name it.

      To address just a SINGLE group which is what AA’s are trying to do is wrong – you are trying to change symptoms and have not come anywhere near addressing the problems.

  • Philip Henika

    No Quarter:

    I think the People should demand a candidate’s position with re: to global peacebuilding initiative and how it could restore public service but I seriously doubt this will happen.

    Comments:

    “However, echoing the remarks of U.S. diplomats and
    military commanders, [UN Envoy Steffan] De Mistura
    made it clear that the Iraqi government needed to do
    much more for its people.” (1)

    It is interesting to me that Steffan De Mistura
    includes both human rights and improved “public
    services” in his argument (1). A multifactorial global
    peacebuilding initiative would serve to improve and
    innovate public services as a major precedent and
    practice of a post-war plan for Iraq and other
    nations.

    Is the US and the UN willing to do what it takes? Have
    they looked at other models of peacebuilding
    initiative such as the Carter Center and the
    Philippine/Southeast Asia model?

    One of the first ‘public service’ efforts in those
    models is to reunite families from civil war and
    genocide. Other ‘public service’ efforts might include
    disease control, energy-efficient shelters etc. The
    latter models are also based on the premise of ‘helping
    people to help themselves’.

    So, we finally hear “public service” from UN in
    contrast to the privatization and secrecy precedents
    of the Bush Administration. Will the Presidential
    candidates restore “public service” to Americans as
    well? I seriously doubt it because I have heard
    nothing from McCain, Obama or Clinton in this regard.

    Rick

    (1) U.N. envoy urges Iraq to seize moment
    By Ned Parker, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
    March 16, 2008

    BAGHDAD — The U.N. envoy to Iraq urged the Iraqi
    government Saturday to seize upon the drop in violence
    in the country over the last year to move forward on
    reconciliation and improving public services because
    its window of opportunity won’t last forever.

    “In spite of the spike of horrific spectacular acts,
    there is still a lot of improvement compared to the
    past, which should be interpreted by all of us and by
    the Iraqi political leaders as an opportunity,”
    Staffan de Mistura told reporters. “The opportunity
    doesn’t last long.”

    He spoke as the United Nations released its human
    rights report for the last six months of 2007.
    Although the report draws attention to allegations of
    torture in Iraqi prisons and targeted killings by
    armed gangs, De Mistura praised strides by the
    government in improving prison conditions and passing
    some legislation dealing with reconciliation issues,
    and he noted a dramatic reduction in sectarian
    violence.

    However, echoing the remarks of U.S. diplomats and
    military commanders, De Mistura made it clear that the
    Iraqi government needed to do much more for its
    people.

    “This is not enough, especially in the view that 2008
    is not going to be a normal year — everybody knows
    it. That is why we hope this report is an additional
    reminder . . . in line of saying, this is the year of
    grabbing the Iraqi opportunity to go forward in many
    fields,” De Mistura said.

    Iraq’s death toll fell from more than 2,000 fatalities
    in January 2007 at the height of the sectarian
    conflict to 466 a year later. In the last month and a
    half, violence has crept upward amid a string of
    suicide attacks, which have seen women and people with
    disabilities being used as bombers.

    The rising bloodshed has given a new urgency to the
    U.S. and U.N. pleas for the Shiite Muslim-led
    government to broker a peace with its Sunni Arab
    minority while the bulk of the additional 28,500
    American troops sent to Iraq to put the brakes on a
    civil war last year remain in the country.

    Key issues remain unresolved, including the fate of
    former Sunni fighters who have joined the battle
    against militants and who are paid by the U.S.
    military. The U.S. wants the Iraqi government to
    employ them, but the government has moved slowly.

    The continuing calm also hinges on Shiite cleric
    Muqtada Sadr’s Mahdi Army militia. Sadr has ordered
    his men to abide by a cease-fire, but his militia is
    caught in an intense power struggle with other Shiite
    political factions in southern Iraq.

    The U.N. report expresses caution about how long the
    present calm might endure. “The extent to which the
    decrease in the violence was sustainable remained
    unclear,” the report says. It notes that the Iraqi
    government was hindered by “political instability” and
    says its reconciliation efforts are “stalled.”

    It draws attention to the behavior of private security
    firms such as Blackwater Worldwide, whose employees
    shot dead 17 Iraqis in a controversial incident in
    west Baghdad last year. It also highlights allegations
    of mistreatment and torture of detainees in Kurdish
    prisons.

    In violence Saturday, a U.S. soldier was killed by
    small-arms fire in southwest Baghdad, the American
    military said. The death brings the U.S. military toll
    since the invasion in 2003 to 3,988, according to the
    independent website icasualties.org.

    A bomb exploded in Karrada, a commercial district in
    the Iraqi capital, killing one street cleaner and
    wounding eight.

    • simon

      People simply do not want to admit Bush and Cheney and the whole crew have no fucking clue what they’re doing, period. And that’s because it takes SMART people to run a country, not the latest fad in corporate management.

      Clinton is our best bet, and MAYBE McCain, in terms of understanding what needs to be done, and how, having the foresight and enlightened intellect to rebuild Mid East relations, reasserting American competency, for lack of a better word.

      It is an incredibly difficult job for smart people, and seeing how the Obama camp, people like kos, think, it ain’t gonna come from there.Obama is a weak child, world asymmetric war is NOT like playing Halo, from your living room couch.

      Pelosi can’t seem to grasp the impression Obama makes, the stuttering, the complete lack of content in his paint by number speeches, clearly conveying the man doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about, ever. And then there is the terrorist connection, and any loyalty he may owe Auchi, Libya, or Rezko, and Syria.

      The Democrats behind Obama are the weakest, IMO, the worst to handle the job.

      And they refuse to see it.

  • Mel

    When someone campaigns on a theme of “Change We Can Believe In” does open the door for complete questioning of the Change Preachers Beliefs!

    When campaigning on Change it is silly to not wonder what kind of Change to expect!

    For the most part, the Media isn’t doing it, instead they are awestruck by the large rally’s with staged fainters in the crowds! But if you watch the speeches with the fainters in them, watch the timing of the fainters, as though scripted to do so between the candidates stumps on his ability or lack there of and (faint happens, Obama calls out for assistance) and then continues stumping on a tone of attacking his opponent taking advantage of the crowds emotions being exposed!

    Why this staging, well look at the underpinning of it and the affect it has mentally on the crowd!

    Talk how great someone is, even though it is bogus, but keep instilling one underlying message into it about something, like “I am the best”!

    Then inject a shock mechanism into a situation, people listening react with concern and instant emotional rushes! The majority of people forget the drawn out things said prior to the shock injection and maintain just the underlying message of what was said prior to it, “I am the best”!

    Then follow the shock injection by a format to rile up people with already stunned emotions and they react from it and the people remember to just equate the underlying message prior to the shock situation and thereafter all the riling attacks denouncing the opponent in this case Clinton!

    Obama’s carefully scripted carnaval show rallies are done in such a way that is marketing 101!

    Thus the furor by Camp Obama over the 3AM ad! Camp Obama called it instilling fear, yet the only fear it presented in asking voters a simple question is the fear that it threw a wrench into the tactics of the Obama campaign by making people actually step back and think, and Obama detests the fact that when people think, he loses the edge he instilled of dillusions he presented in his speeches with the “Shock Factor”!

  • Philip Henika

    Simon:

    I think Bush et al know exactly what they are doing in terms of the precedents and practice of the NeoCon agenda e.g. they are smart in that they have managed to eliminate public service and replace it with privatization and secrecy. I think the success of privatization serves to empower the NeoCons with regard to control of both war and peacetime political gains. I agree with you wholeheartedly i.e. I think they have used 9/11 to pull the wool over the eyes of the American People. I want to see a debate that frightens NeoCons, criminal groups and terrorist groups because I see them all on the same page in terms of opportunism. I think phrases that strike fear in all of them are public service and peacebuilding initiative. I want to know where McCain, Obama and Clinton stand on the implementation and innovation of the peace process i these times in whichn globalization has replaced the Cold War. All I have heard is that there no plan or funding for post-war Iraq. I do not see an American Department of Peacebuilding or a UN Resolution for a global peacebuilding initiative. Without these efforts or similiar, I fear that the march to WWWIII will prevail and that the 21st Century will start as historical repeat to the 20th Century. I would like the candidates to tell us how they plan to end war and reunite families, control disease, adapt to global warming, use energy effiently etc. It would be nice to hear from a candidate that public service is still a valued function of government.

    • Philip Henika

      An example of opportunism:

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/14/AR2008031403677.html

      The Crude [Oil] Case for War?

      • simon

        I think Bush et al know exactly what they are doing in terms of the precedents and practice of the NeoCon agenda e.g. they are smart in that they have managed to eliminate public service and replace it with privatization and secrecy

        it isn’t working, though, they can’t maintain their position.

        And this is where neocon republicanism fails, where Cheney, say, meets his Obama, or more accurately, his Pelosi. He cannot see beyond the specious, he cannot see beyond a the immediate, he DOES NOT CALCULATE OR RECOGNIZE contingencies, the factors which are defeating him. And again, every action is subject to the law of diminishing returns, this election, if Obama wins the nomination, is lost to the democrats, per the Republican game plan , period. BUT, what appears to be a victory isn’t, as the numbers are trending down, the neocons never ever achieving the control they yearn for…

        I would say it’s the Pillsbury dough boy of politics, Rove, but they can only realize the momentary gratification.

        Neocons make plans, but where are the Russians, where is China?

        See?

        If they cannot calculate this, how the hell can anything they do succeed, other than opening night?

        • simon

          Neocons make plans, but where are the Russians, where is China?

          Just as an aside, I used ot have my hair cut at an English salon, and one day my english hairdresser said to me, as we were dicusiing the war “they can’t really be thinking about invading Iraq, what about the Russians?”

          And the neocons did not think about the Russians.

          Pretty obvious to everyone else, isn’t it?

  • Andy

    Please e-mail to Nancy Pelosi as the Speaker of the House to both

    AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov

    http://speaker.house.gov/contact/

    If you live in her district then there is another address as well
    for her constituencies only:

    http://www.house.gov/pelosi/contact/contact.html

    These are all email contact-forms (web based easy to use)

    • http://penitent-thief.blogspot.com/ PMS

      Done.

      Dear Madam Speaker,

      From your comments, you appear to working to promote the nomination of Senator Barack Obama over Senator Hillary Clinton. That would be a disaster for the Democratic Party, reminiscent of what happened to us in 1968 and 1972.

      The hateful, dishonest, corrupt, and inept baggage that Senator Obama brings to his campaign will drag the Democratic Party down across the slate.

      The Primaries have been a disaster, thanks to the DNC’s wanting to protect the unbalancing impact of Iowa and New Hampshire.

      The Texas Primary was a nightmare (my primary), in that the caucuses were as unrepresentative as any political strong-arm tactic I’ve ever seen.

      The Florida voters, through no fault of their own, are being denied their votes for the SECOND time this decade… first by the Republicans, and now by the Democrats.

      We are becoming a parody of Democracy.

      • Andy

        Great, thank you PMS. Good letter!!!

  • Independent

    Y’all are making just an awesome example of how it will be when the Democraps rule the country. You should be so proud. Someone was giving me hell the other day for not picking a side. Ha, being a Pub or a Dem is like having a giant L on your forehead. You prove my point daily.

    • http://penitent-thief.blogspot.com/ PMS

      You’re right. The “Independents” (or is that, to borrow your terminology, the “Incontinents”) have fielded such strong candidates and direct National policy so well for the betterment of America.

      Oh, wait. You’re not on the ballot. My bad.

    • simon

      It’s pretty easy to game those with a homogeneous POV, really really easy.

      Democracy allows the best solution to be hashed out, period.

      It’s laborious, but MOST of the stupid shit gets tossed out, recognized for the trash it is… (if we had had a functioning Congress, Iraq would never have been invaded, in a state of denial, like a child believing in fairy tales, it’ll will all work out…But the money is too tempting, I suppose).

      It’s why America has achieved cultural dominance.

      DEMOCRACY.

      You know, some people have all the intellectual complexity of a porta potty interior.

      And just as smelly. Sometimes I feel like Stinky Diver, from Justice League NOW! reading how some people think.

      What are the intellectual dynamics of those raised in a culture of equality, where independence is encouraged, v those who are brought up in culturally homogeneous environment, taught to defeat difference?

      Who won the cold war? It sure wasn’t Cheney…

  • Steve Judd

    What drives me craziest most of all is that if Obama is nominated (as increasingly seems likely, sad to say) and if he then goes on to be defeated handily by McCain (which I think is also likely, though I hope I’m wrong), that somehow his defeat will be all Hillary’s fault!

    I can hear it now—Clinton’s campaign was too hurtful to the ticket! Clinton was too divisive and turned off voters! Clinton ran a lousy campaign and should have done a better job of exposing his weaknesses!

    Will there be a word of regret? Of admitting miscalculation? Of falling for the hype?

    Don’t count on it, folks. Just remember: being a privileged, elite liberal means never having to say your sorry.

    • simon

      What drives me craziest most of all is that if Obama is nominated (as increasingly seems likely, sad to say

      Don’t forget Penn. this is the big push time for the Obama tools.

      Which works to Clinton’s advantage, they don’t grasp it.

  • helen

    the obama people seem to think that white old women are stupid. well this white old women has been in penn station ny when the puerto rican independence group planted a bomb int the baggage room above where she was working. this white old women also had to try to avoid a angry mob while 7 months pregnant when mlk was killed. the rev wright’s words incite actions that are dangerous to this country. if obama listened to this hate for 20 years and saw nothing wrong with it, he has a big problem. he is also teaching his children hatred. how will this help the future of this country. from what i see he has always surrounded himself with people that do not have America’s best interest at heart.

    • Nellie

      Great summary

  • Pingback: Obama’s Choice for Michigan : NO QUARTER

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sheldon-drobny/god-damn-americas-media_b_91773.html Me

    I’m sorry I haven’t read all the comments and I don’t know if anyone will read mine. I just want to put this out there.

    I disagree with your post. I am, in fact, GLAD that Obama attended that church and listened to Rev. Wright. Not because I love to hear someone say “God damn America.” But because I love to hear someone care enough about America to care about the wrongs America does, to not accept slapping a happy flag of approval over lethal poison, and to challenge America to face up and do better.

    This wasn’t a civics class, this was a church service. The standard wasn’t political, it was Christian. How Christian — or American — is it to drop bombs on innocents and not care and then say God bless America afterwards? To enslave and then diss descendants of slaves, sending generations to jail? I’m glad someone is challenging us to be our brother’s keeper.

    Lastly, what a shock to find out Barack has been listening to this…this…this… whatever! for what, 20 years!?! Who knew? Why, if he ever earned a public position, racist separatist hate would spew forth, and he would lead us down filthy paths, yes?

    NO.

    We already know how this turned out! It was Rev. Wright’s phrase “the audacity of hope” that inspired Obama’s 2004 Democratic convention speech of the same name:

    It’s not enough for just some of us to prosper — for alongside our famous individualism, there’s another ingredient in the American saga, a belief that we’re all connected as one people. If there is a child on the south side of Chicago who can’t read, that matters to me, even if it’s not my child. If there is a senior citizen somewhere who can’t pay for their prescription drugs, and having to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it’s not my grandparent. If there’s an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties.

    It is that fundamental belief — It is that fundamental belief: I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sister’s keeper — that makes this country work. It’s what allows us to pursue our individual dreams and yet still come together as one American family.

    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/barackobama2004dnc.htm

    Watch the speech. It’s a love letter to America. Look at the faces. They’re all different and they all love America. The line about the civil liberties of Arab Americans got perhaps the loudest applause of all.

    God bless everybody. Everywhere.