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Think Big Picture

Senator Obama gave a brilliant speech this week on the pervasive effects of racism in America. It was certainly profound and an important step towards developing a dialogue on one of the many serious issues confronting us in this country.  

The press seems to have no intent of allowing another, and in my opinion, broader and urgent issue which effects millions, perhaps billions, of people globally to be addressed; women’s rights. I feel the need to reach out to my friends in order to shine a light.

For those who support Senator Obama, I ask only that you read this and consider the substance of Hillary Clinton, the woman who will “do anything to be President.” Although this phrase is used as a weapon meant to attack, it is based on partial truth. Hillary Clinton will do just about anything, but I believe it is mainly in an effort to fulfill her life’s work on basic human rights. From her formation of a baby sitting brigade at age 14 to go into inner city Chicago to care for immigrant worker’s children to her Vital Voices initiative for women in third world countries, the passion and dedication she has shone is undeniable but minimized by her opponents and the press. Women are being sexually, emotionally and physically abused every day in this country and around the world. Where is the outrage? If not Hillary, what women will ever be good enough?

Cited by many world health organizations is a simply fact: the number one way to decrease poverty and disease in the world is to liberate and educate women.

With this in mind, I would like to share with you that other speech given on September 5, 199 in Beijing, China before the United Nations Counsel on Women. It is considered one of the top 50 speeches of the 20th century. 

These words and the power of this speech came from a lifelong commitment to human rights and the hard work involved in getting things done.

Women’s Rights Are Human Rights Famous Speech

by Hillary Clinton
Beijing, China: 5 September 1995

Mrs. Mongella, Under Secretary Kittani, distinguished delegates and guests: 

I would like to thank the Secretary General of the United Nations for inviting me to be part of the United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women. This is truly a celebration – a celebration of the contributions women make in every aspect of life: in the home, on the job, in their communities, as mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, learners, workers, citizens and leaders. 

It is also a coming together, much the way women come together every day in every country. 



We come together in fields and in factories. In village markets and supermarkets. In living rooms and board rooms. 



Whether it is while playing with our children in the park, or washing clothes in a river, or taking a break at the office water cooler, we come together and talk about our aspirations and concerns. And time and again, our talk turns to our children and our families. However different we may be, there is far more that unites us than divides us. We share a common future. And we are here to find common ground so that we may help bring new dignity and respect to women and girls all over the world – and in so doing, bring new strength and stability to families as well. 

By gathering in Beijing, we are focusing world attention on issues that matter most in the lives of women and their families: access to education, health care, jobs and credit, the chance to enjoy basic legal and human rights and participate fully in the political life of their countries. 

There are some who question the reason for this conference. 



Let them listen to the voices of women in their homes, neighborhoods, and workplaces. 

There are some who wonder whether the lives of women and girls matter to economic and political progress around the globe. 



Let them look at the women gathered here and at Huairou – the homemakers, nurses, teachers, lawyers, policymakers, and women who run their own businesses. 

It is conferences like this that compel governments and people everywhere to listen, look and face the world’s most pressing problems. 



Wasn’t it after the women’s conference in Nairobi ten years ago that the world focused for the first time on the crisis of domestic violence? 

Earlier today, I participated in a World Health Organization forum, where government officials, NGOs, and individual citizens are working on ways to address the health problems of women and girls. 



Tomorrow, I will attend a gathering of the United Nations Development Fund for Women. There, the discussion will focus on local – and highly successful – programs that give hard-working women access to credit so they can improve their own lives and the lives of their families. 



What we are learning around the world is that if women are healthy and educated, their families will flourish. If women are free from violence, their families will flourish. If women have a chance to work and earn as full and equal partners in society, their families will flourish. 



And when families flourish, communities and nations will flourish. 



That is why every woman, every man, every child, every family, and every nation on our planet has a stake in the discussion that takes place here. 



Over the past 25 years, I have worked persistently on issues relating to women, children and families. Over the past two-and-a-half years, I have had the opportunity to learn more about the challenges facing women in my own country and around the world. 



I have met new mothers in Jojakarta, Indonesia, who come together regularly in their village to discuss nutrition, family planning, and baby care. 



I have met working parents in Denmark who talk about the comfort they feel in knowing that their children can be cared for in creative, safe, and nurturing after-school centers. 



I have met women in South Africa who helped lead the struggle to end apartheid and are now helping build a new democracy. 



I have met with the leading women of the Western Hemisphere who are working every day to promote literacy and better health care for the children of their countries. 



I have met women in India and Bangladesh who are taking out small loans to buy milk cows, rickshaws, thread and other materials to create a livelihood for themselves and their families. 



I have met doctors and nurses in Belarus and Ukraine who are trying to keep children alive in the aftermath of Chernobyl. 



The great challenge of this Conference is to give voice to women everywhere whose experiences go unnoticed, whose words go unheard. 



Women comprise more than half the world’s population. Women are 70% percent of the world’s poor, and two-thirds of those who are not taught to read and write. 



Women are the primary caretakers for most of the world’s children and elderly. Yet much of the work we do is not valued – not by economists, not by historians, not by popular culture, not by government leaders. 



At this very moment, as we sit here, women around the world are giving birth, raising children, cooking meals, washing clothes, cleaning houses, planting crops, working on assembly lines, running companies, and running countries. 



Women also are dying from diseases that should have been prevented or treated; they are watching their children succumb to malnutrition caused by poverty and economic deprivation; they are being denied the right to go to school by their own fathers and brothers; they are being forced into prostitution, and they are being barred from the bank lending office and banned from the ballot box. 



Those of us who have the opportunity to be here have the responsibility to speak for those who could not. 



As an American, I want to speak up for women in my own country – women who are raising children on the minimum wage, women who can’t afford health care or child care, women whose lives are threatened by violence, including violence in their own homes. 



I want to speak up for mothers who are fighting for good schools, safe neighborhoods, clean air and clean airwaves; for older women, some of them widows, who have raised their families and now find that their skills and life experiences are not valued in the workplace; for women who are working all night as nurses, hotel clerks, and fast food cooks so that they can be at home during the day with their kids; and for women everywhere who simply don’t have time to do everything they are called upon to do each day. 



Speaking to you today, I speak for them, just as each of us speaks for women around the world who are denied the chance to go to school, or see a doctor, or own property, or have a say about the direction of their lives, simply because they are women. The truth is that most women around the world work both inside and outside the home, usually by necessity. 



We need to understand that there is no formula for how women should lead their lives. That is why we must respect the choices that each woman makes for herself and her family. Every woman deserves the chance to realize her God-given potential. 



We also must recognize that women will never gain full dignity until their human rights are respected and protected. 



Our goals for this Conference, to strengthen families and societies by empowering women to take greater control over their own destinies, cannot be fully achieved unless all governments – here and around the world – accept their responsibility to protect and promote internationally recognized human rights. 



The international community has long acknowledged – and recently affirmed at Vienna – that both women and men are entitled to a range of protections and personal freedoms, from the right of personal security to the right to determine freely the number and spacing of the children they bear. 



No one should be forced to remain silent for fear of religious or political persecution, arrest, abuse or torture. 



Tragically, women are most often the ones whose human rights are violated. 



Even in the late 20th century, the rape of women continues to be used as an instrument of armed conflict. Women and children make up a large majority of the world’s refugees. When women are excluded from the political process, they become even more vulnerable to abuse.

I believe that, on the eve of a new millennium, it is time to break our silence. It is time for us to say here in Beijing, and the world to hear, that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women’s rights as separate from human rights. 



These abuses have continued because, for too long, the history of women has been a history of silence. Even today, there are those who are trying to silence our words. 

The voices of this conference and of the women at Huairou must be heard loud and clear: It is a violation of human rights when babies are denied food, or drowned, or suffocated, or their spines broken, simply because they are born girls. 



It is a violation of human rights when women and girls are sold into the slavery of prostitution. 



It is a violation of human rights when women are doused with gasoline, set on fire and burned to death because their marriage dowries are deemed too small. 



It is a violation of human rights when individual women are raped in their own communities and when thousands of women are subjected to rape as a tactic or prize of war. 



It is a violation of human rights when a leading cause of death worldwide among women ages 14 to 44 is the violence they are subjected to in their own homes. 



It is a violation of human rights when young girls are brutalized by the painful and degrading practice of genital mutilation. 



It is a violation of human rights when women are denied the right to plan their own families, and that includes being forced to have abortions or being sterilized against their will. 



If there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, it is that human rights are women’s rights – and women’s rights are human rights. Let us not forget that among those rights are the right to speak freely – and the right to be heard. 



Women must enjoy the right to participate fully in the social and political lives of their countries if we want freedom and democracy to thrive and endure. 



It is indefensible that many women in nongovernmental organizations who wished to participate in this conference have not been able to attend – or have been prohibited from fully taking part. 



Let me be clear. Freedom means the right of people to assemble, organize, and debate openly. It means respecting the views of those who may disagree with the views of their governments. It means not taking citizens away from their loved ones and jailing them, mistreating them, or denying them their freedom or dignity because of the peaceful expression of their ideas and opinions. 



In my country, we recently celebrated the 75th anniversary of women’s suffrage. It took 150 years after the signing of our Declaration of Independence for women to win the right to vote. 



It took 72 years of organized struggle on the part of many courageous women and men. It was one of America’s most divisive philosophical wars. But it was also a bloodless war. Suffrage was achieved without a shot being fired. 



We have also been reminded, in V-1 Day observances last weekend, of the good that comes when men and women join together to combat the forces of tyranny and build a better world.

 

We have seen peace prevail in most places for a half century. We have avoided another world war. 

But we have not solved older, deeply-rooted problems that continue to diminish the potential of half the world’s population. 



Now it is time to act on behalf of women everywhere. If we take bold steps to better the lives of women, we will be taking bold steps to better the lives of children and families too. 

Families rely on mothers and wives for emotional support and care; families rely on women for labor in the home; and increasingly, families rely on women for income needed to raise healthy children and care for other relatives. 



As long as discrimination and inequities remain so commonplace around the world – as long as girls and women are valued less, fed less, fed last, overworked, underpaid, not schooled and subjected to violence in and out of their homes – the potential of the human family to create a peaceful, prosperous world will not be realized. 



Let this Conference be our – and the world’s – call to action. 



And let us heed the call so that we can create a world in which every woman is treated with respect and dignity, every boy and girl is loved and cared for equally, and every family has the hope of a strong and stable future. 



Thank you very much. 

God’s blessings on you, your work and all who will benefit from it.

 
New York Times: Hillary Clinton in Beijing as Women’s Conference Opens

“Hillary Rodham Clinton arrived early today to a Chinese capital under tight security for the Fourth World Conference on Women, the largest ever gathering of its kind. . .

Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan cut to the core of the issues when she addressed the opening session of the conference on Monday, raising her voice against violence directed at women. …

“Women hold up half of the sky in human society,” Mr. Jiang said, using a Chinese metaphor. But “over a long period of time,” prejudice against women “like an invisible chain, fettered the hearts and mind of millions.”. . .

Of 1.3 billion people living in absolute poverty in the world, 70 percent are women. For many of them, the importance of this conference, the most ambitious of its kind since the first such meeting dedicated to women was held in Mexico City in 1975, is that it will again take up the issue that has sundered the national politics of many nations of the world: the reproductive rights of women and the issue of abortion. ”

HILLARY CLINTON, IN CHINA, DETAILS ABUSE OF WOMEN

“Speaking more forcefully on human rights than any American dignitary has on Chinese soil, Hillary Rodham Clinton catalogued a devastating litany of abuse that has afflicted women around the world today and criticized China for seeking to limit free and open discussion of women’s issues here.

Mrs. Clinton’s gravity and directness seemed to please both Democratic and Republican members of the United States delegation here, and thus the speech may trump the political disputes that have plagued both Mrs. Clinton’s decision to travel here and the Administration’s approach to China.

As Mrs. Clinton recited her litany from the podium, many delegates applauded, some cheered and others pounded the tables.

“She talked so eloquently about human rights, and I thought it was very effective, because all of the women here will know that the wife of the President of the United States also thinks about these things,” said Maria Kamm, a delegate from Tanzania and member of Parliament there.”

  • Nellie

    This is just beautiful.

    I heard about the speech, but never had the opportunity to read it in full. My eyes are wet with tears of hope and pride.

  • Tfitz

    Finally — an article about women’s rights — an issue silently absent from the hypercharged environment with all of the talk of racism. Sexism is just as pernicious and rarely discussed. Thank you.

  • AF catfish

    There is so much I don’t know about Hillary, and I’m already on her side! Keep these coming please! (The babysitting brigade for inner-city Chicago? Wow.)

  • AF catfish

    The speech in China wasn’t a bad encore :)

  • Marjorie

    What a fantastic speech. The sad part is that so little has changed since she spoke these words. Hillary MUST be elected to the office of President of the United States. We need, the world needs, President Hillary Clinton-her energy, her capacity to see to the heart of what needs to be done, and her honesty.
    Thank you for posting her speech.

  • mimi

    I so agree. Women’s Rights are just as important. And why in my opinion, as an AA, the most important issue in terms of choosing a candidate is who is more qualified.

    And that’s Hillary Clinton.

    I don’t know why anyone needed to take a sneak peak at Obama’s passport. He’s never been anywhere that gives him credence to proclaim he is ready to take on foreign affairs. And that’s the bottom line.

  • christian aaron

    holy cows!!

    a non-insane post on this blog! yes!! yes, this speech reminds me of why i would vote for Hillary in the election if she is the nominee. thank you, thank you, thank you for not 1) bashing Obama 2)reminding people of the importance of empowering over half the poulation of the planet — it is a demonstrable fact that when you empower women in unstable societies, they improve conditions for everyone. 3) advertising the strengths of one of the Democratic candidates without attacking the other with vague accusations and unprovable innuendo.

    bravo!

  • John

    Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Rachel Maddow, and Keith Olbermann, just to name a few, pretend to be in favor of Unity and repeatedly trash CLINTON supporters for questioning Obama instead of focusing all their efforts on beating McCain. Meanwhile, listeners know that they spend 90% of their time trashing Hillary, not McCain.

    I wish that the visitors to this and other sites who call on us to set aside our differences would spend more time criticizing Air Obama and MSNBC, where Anti-Clinton rhetoric rivals anything you can hear on Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly, etc. But the fact is that a lot of these hand-wringers are total hypocrites- they don’t mind the Hillary-bashing, they only want Unity on their OWN TERMS: Unity= Pro-Obama. Period.

    I also wish that they would understand that Nothing has hardened people like me against Obama more than the endless Hillary= Bad, Obama=Good bleating of the media and Air Obama Radio. Sorry, but you can’t expect me to just Play Nice and Accept Defeat when you’ve played so unfairly all along. I really haven’t been this angry about anything in politics since the 2000 election was stolen.

  • JeffD73

    Give me Hillary Clinton who goes to the bastion of communism and human rights abuses and stands up for the human rights of women before a throng of international leaders and diplomats.

    Give me Hillary Clinton who leaves her campaign to go to New Orleans and speaks before a black audience who is 80-90% hostile to her campaign and gives a speech and follow up sit-down with Tavis Smiley about the state of the black union.

    DON’T give me Barack Obama who after months of avoiding race in his campaign, gives a CoverYourAss speech about race before reporters and photographers.

  • christian aaron

    i understand your perspective. but i have nothing to do with Air America or Obama or any of the other sources of what you think are one-sided, biased analyses of our political climate. i have no control over them. so why am i an “Obamabot” when i would clearly and openly vote for Hillary Clinton were she the nominee? why is my stance attacked endlessly here at this site, other than the fact that apparently Kos and a few of the bloggers here had some kind of 5th grade tantrum a while back? it’s ridiculous…

    then they use right-wing sources and right-wing spinmeisters (Luntz) to attack Obama. now, is it valuable to know what the other side is going to throw at us? sure. but the tone of this site is not one of unity and help, it is one of vitriol and hate.

    now, has everyone here seen the extended context of Wright’s sermons? and hs that mitigated the so-called ‘issue’ of Obama being in his church? when everyone COULD BE attacking the things that right-wing preachers have been saying forever, as an aid to a Democrat who is trying to defend himself, they are not. they are acting as rabidly as any right-winger would in attacking their current opponent, losing sight of the fact that he may the nominee.

    will you all vote for Obama if he is the nominee? because wading through the hate-filled, fact-free screeds here, i can’t see how you could. if you believe what has been passed off as well-researched work here, you must conclude that Obama is unfit and abstain from voting or vote for McCain. and if you don’t believe this crap here, or require more evidence, then WHY ARE YOU ALL doing this?

    are you helping or are you hurting? i mean YOU. not Olbermann or Hannity or Randi Rhodes. you.

    i did my part and sent an email to Obama asking that he please address the concerns of fellow Democrats about his past and his dealings, even pointing to this blog. i hope to see some kind of an honest response as to what went on regarding each and every one of these concerns. but as i wrote in another post, Hillary Clinton has many, many skeletons. now, do you all believe her honest heart-felt answers as to what went on in all of these situations for which she has been attacked? i assume you do, or you wouldn’t be supporting her. so, when Obama tries to defend himself with a brilliant speech to address some of the concerns about him, do i see an honest, good-faith effort by DEMOCRATS (people in his own party, mind you) here to understand what he’s trying to say? no, i see a complete dismissal and an immediate attempt to parse the speech for any one-liner to use to attack. it’s all about perspective, and there is none. here.

    my .02

  • Nancy H. Armstrong

    I read the speech in its entirety some time ago. I was led there by reading a book about the women’s movement. It is a biography Revolutionary Hearts by Diane Eickhoff.

    So good to see it again.

  • ritamary

    Right now Randi Rhodes is saying that Hillary Clinton is feeling neglected because her passport information hasn’t been accessed since 2007. This is what passes for humor on her program. Probably I find this annoying because I am a typical white person.

    Earlier this week Thom Hartmann claimed that Obama’s throw-granny-under-the-bus speech was the greatest speech since the Gettysburg address. And yet Thom Hartmann continues to insist that he is neutral in the Democratic primary contest. No wonder conservatives view us on the left as a bunch of idiots.

  • John

    Did I refer to you? My post was directed at all the “Unity Above All” phonies who eat up every minute of the Hillary-bashing in the media, then bitch and moan whenever someone dares criticize Obama at all.

    If the Unity Peddlers were sincere, they’d be flooding Air Obama Radio with calls telling Maddow and Rhodes to knock it off. They’d be flooding the Jones Radio Network telling Schultz he is doing the Democratic party no favors with his slash-and-burn bullshit. But you know, I rarely hear anything like this. Instead, I hear a parade of “you are so right (insert host’s name here)” pandering by Obama supporters who have so little positive to say about their own candidate beyond “He’s Inspirational!” and “He gives me Hope!” and “He’ll bring us Together!” but have an apparently insatiable appetite for attacks on Hillary Clinton.

  • christian aaron

    i can’t comment on these hosts and why they are saying what they are saying. but, let me observe that the “throw-granny-under-the-bus speech” is exactly the kind of honesty (or if you would have it your way, the ‘fake honesty’… whatever, as if Hillary is all sincerity, no politics, please let’s all stay real in our views…) that i want from people, and the kind of honesty i would use when confronting someone with a different view. my own grandfather, white truck driver and owner of a trucking company, was the embodiment of all the contradictions of which Obama spoke. he had a big heart… sometimes. he loved his wife… but sometimes spoke to her as if she were a child, a common ailment of the intelligent-but-somewhat-ignorant, working class. he wanted everyone to have a shot at the American Dream… but used racial slurs and talked about minorities in ridiculous caricature.

    this is the truth. this is what i got out of that speech, and why i thought it was brilliant. i could no more separate myself from my grandfather as he can from his grandmother, and yes, i would use that story if i wanted to convey these points. it’s not throwing someone under the bus. it’s honesty about how we are the people we are.

    see how we can have different perspectives about this?

    would you vote for Obama or no? because i can’t help but observe that the -granny-under-the-bus meme is being used by Malkin et al as well. if he becomes “your” nominee, how are you going to cognitively come to terms with voting for someone who is being attacked from the right with the same talking point you are now using?

  • christian aaron

    i hear that and i have no response. you’re right. and there’s a reason that i don’t listen to most of that stuff. can only take it for brief periods. like most things in life, you take what you can from it, that which makes you smarter and better, and you leave the rest.

    i wouldn’t dare to defend it.

    but i fall under the umbrella of people who are being ridiculed and mocked on this site, and i just wanted to start making my views known i guess….

  • John

    Oh and by the way, Obama couldn’t even “defend himself” in that speech without throwing out a “Look over There!” attack on Hillary Clinton. Just like you couldn’t write a post in defense of Obama without suggesting Hillary has “many, many skeletons.”

    And you are right about one thing- I am not at all interested in the “context” of Wright’s sermons. If you think Wright had a valid point, you ought to be demanding that Barack DEFEND him rather than pretend he didn’t know about the racial aspects (a story which changes every other day– Barack knew about them, then he didn’t, then he did again.)

    But then, I’m just a typical white guy. Which is to say, according to Barack Obama, a closet racist.

  • tiffany

    I have written to Marc Green with regards to the bashing of Hillary on a daily basis by the AirAmerica crowd. I have not received a response, therefore, I am no longer their loyal listener. The clowns on MSNBC, in particular, have made this primary very ugly and personal. In addition, the DNC has done nothing to end this sexism, misogyny and hatred for one of the most popular democrats of our lifetime. Well they are in for a surprise. The Democratic party and Obama have not earned my vote and have taken women for granted. If Obama had spoken out against this as he did with the Imus incident, I would have supported him. He showed lack of leadership and he is nothing but an opportunist. I and many in my circle of friends and family are staying home in NOV.

  • John

    Rhodes is just the worst. And she is the LAST person who is going to have any credibility at all if Obama wins the nomination and she calls upon all of us to “put aside our differences” and get behind him “for the good of the nation.”

    Rhodes hasn’t just swooned over Obama and attacked Hillary for the last several months. She’s twisted the truth into knots to do it. She’s repeatedly declared that “nobody came out to vote in Florida because they were told it wouldnt’ count,” which must come as a surprise to the 1.7 million record turnout that did come out to vote. She’s shifted her position on Superdelegates- they can vote for who they want, no they have to vote for the person with the most popular votes, no they have to vote for the person with the most elected delegates– all depending on what seems best for Barack Obama on any given day. She’s the first to blame Hillary for any news story that is not 100% pro-Obama. She was “outraged” at the tame Red Phone ad, calling it racist (everything Hillary does is racist.) She’s said repeatedly that if Hillary is the nominee it will “destroy the party.”

    People like Rhodes are the ones who will make it impossible for the party to unify this fall. How can she possibly get behind Hillary if she’s the nominee? She can’t, and that’s just fine with her, because Rhodes is exactly the type of Rule or Ruin yakker that we on this thread are being accused of being. The difference is, none of us have the top-rated liberal talk show in the United States.

  • christian aaron

    ok, you’re right. i said that about Hilary, and it’s true. i used it as a rhetorical point in the email, because i’m trying to get at the root of the hate-filled stuff i am reading here, and the apparent need to attack the opponent ruthlessly without much credible evidence, if any. does she not have many skeletons which will undoubtedly be re-hashed if she is the nominee?

    about Wright, you know that Obama cannot politically survive if he stands there and says that he agrees with anything Wright said. you know that. comparatively, has Clinton made those kinds of political decisions? of course she has, and i don’t blame her for them. do i think that 9/11 was chickens coming home to roost? of course! you can’t not think that if you have any notion of American imperial foreign policy in the last century. is ther evidence that the CIA was/is involved in drug trafficking that ended up in the urban neighborhoods of the US? of course! a prominent investigative reporter did loads of work on that story and later killed himself because of the firestorm that ensued…. can Obama agree with the rhetoric that Wright used to convey those points? NO way.

    and as to what Barack knew when? come on. how much parsing can you do? are you referring to the fact that he said in an interview that he never heard those words in chruch and now in the speech he said that “have i heard him say things that are controversial? yes”. is that what you’re referring to? seems to me the parsing of what “is” is. i mean, when i was a kid, i went to church a few times (i am an agnostic) and damned if i can remember a damn thing that was said. and i know that people were very animated when they were talkin’ about fire and brimstone and such.

    so? to me, this all the same version of attacking absolutely every point that you can because he’s not “your guy”.

    Hilary’s not “my guy”, but i’d still vote for her.

    am i just expecting too much reasonableness from the folks on this blog?

  • John

    Barack Obama will speak out against sexism in all aspects of American life, and call Hillary Clinton an amazing woman who might make a great President someday– the moment he wraps up the nomination. On that same day, Air America will follow suit with glowing praise for Hillary. And Barack’s graciousness, of course.

    The moment it doesn’t count anymore. That’s a promise.

  • christian aaron

    of course you’re right, as is Tiffany above.

    so, have you read anything in the last 7 years about Ralph Nader and the people who supported him being responsible for the Bush years? so i actually didn’t vote for him, but ALMOST. he speaks reason and insight regarding the primary domestic issue we have: corporate personhood and the screwing of the middle class. but i voted for the person who could win and who might be able to HELP while winning. i don’t blame the Nader folks, because i understand. but don’t let a similar thing happen here.

    now, Tiffany above will stay home in November. because of what? because of party mistakes and Obama’s inability to talk to HER SPECIFIC group of people. no ability to intellectually make a decision for the betterment of everyone. it’s all personal, all the time. look, politics is tough. you all make the point here and there that “if Obama can’t take it, he should get out of the race”. well, i say that if you can’t take this stuff when “your guy” is getting, albeit perhaps truthfully slimed, i don’t know what to say to you. i’m not trying to be harsh at all, just honest. think about what the bottom line is, and who Tiffany is tacitly aligning herself to — John McCain. John McCain could win because of Democratic sit-at-homes, and they will blame the Democratic party, or Obama, or MSNBC, or Air America.

    but the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of those who are unwilling to compromise, even within the group of people who MOST resemble their own outlook, the Democratic party.

    i’m sorry, but it is sad, and juvenile and immature. and selfish.

    i’m just being honest. i will vote for Hillary, but the truth of what i thought about this blog is starting to come now. lots of people here would not vote for Obama, and it’s ridiculous. come a McCain victory, they will huff and puff, and blame everyone else but themselves for staying home. or Obama supporters for voting their own conscience and choosing him.

  • Northwest rain

    This speech goes to the core issue of why I can NOT vote for obama if he gets the dem nomination.

    First off he won’t win the General — so my vote isn’t going to matter — he would probably lose every single state and the Democrats would lose their majority in the House and in the Senate.

    Obama is an enemy of women — he has a psychological hang up about women — white women, strong women. Obama has made it very clear from the beginning that he has no respect for women. And when he attacks Senator Clinton — he attacks me. He needs to distance himself from Rev. Wright and get some serious counseling.

    What we do need is a US President who understands the importance of educating girls and women equally with boys and men. Education for all is one of the critical necessities for the survival of the human race.

    The Obamabots still cannot give us examples of what Obama has done FOR people to improve their lives and how exactly Obama will try to improve the lives of individuals if (goddess forbid) he gets the keys to the white house. I’m told there is absolutely nothing about women’s rights on Obama’s website. Violence against women is an ignored issue by male politicians. I don’t know how many times I have read about a women coming before a judge, asking him for a restraining order against a husband or boyfriend and the judge denies her request and she is murdered by the husband or boyfriend. And nothing changes — the next women is killed and the next and the next.

    Shirley Chisholm, a black women who ran for President in 1972, said that she experienced more prejudiced as a WOMAN than as a black person. Obama has done nothing to address this huge Elephant in the living room.

    The world is pretty well screwed up and humans are all in this together to survive as a species.

  • PamFlorida

    John-please calm down. I absolutely agree with you on Randi Rhodes & Keith Olberman. Was a devoted fan of both until they jumped on the Hillary-bashing wagon.
    Christian Aaron-this is a great site with good info. Neither ranting nor name-calling is the norm.
    Let’s keep to the subject-Sen. Clinton’s speech is representative of what kind of person she is.

  • sajo

    Clinton Advisor: Hillary Has 10% Chance of Winning

    Story behind the story: The Clinton myth
    By JIM VANDEHEI & MIKE ALLEN | 3/21/08 1:32 PM EST
    Text Size:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9149.html

    One big fact has largely been lost in the recent coverage of the Democratic presidential race: Hillary Rodham Clinton has virtually no chance of winning.

    Her own campaign acknowledges there is no way that she will finish ahead in pledged delegates. That means the only way she wins is if Democratic superdelegates are ready to risk a backlash of historic proportions from the party’s most reliable constituency.

    Unless Clinton is able to at least win the primary popular vote — which also would take nothing less than an electoral miracle — and use that achievement to pressure superdelegates, she has only one scenario for victory. An African-American opponent and his backers would be told that, even though he won the contest with voters, the prize is going to someone else.
    People who think that scenario is even remotely likely are living on another planet.

    As it happens, many people inside Clinton’s campaign live right here on Earth. One important Clinton adviser estimated to Politico privately that she has no more than a 10 percent chance of winning her race against Barack Obama, an appraisal that was echoed by other operatives.
    In other words: The notion of the Democratic contest being a dramatic cliffhanger is a game of make-believe.

  • christian aaron

    interesting. if accurate, where does this put us with the sentiment put forth by Tiffany and Northwest Rain above? (by the way, i live in Seattle, and caucused here for Obama — my first)

    what happens if Obama is the nominee? how can this thing heal now that the wound has been created? that’s what this is all about in a nutshell. there are wounds all over the place and if we can’t suture this one up with people who are so close in many ways to our own way of thinking, how are we going to cross lines of misunderstanding in other areas? conservative? Dominionist Christian?

    so my question is: does everyone here really believe all of the posts attacking Obama. do you believe them and the evidence sited? or has this been a political exercise to get your candidate a win? because we are not going to win without all Democrats’ votes, whoever the candidate is. now i have said on numerous occasions that i would vote for Hillary. but i’m not seeing that attitude much from her supporters regarding Obama?

    how do we move forward if that’s the case? with a McCain presidency?

    what if Obama surrounds himself with the best of the best? what if Obama does as he speaks and listens to people and constructs workable coalitions of advisors?

    can these wounds heal?

  • John D

    “so my question is: does everyone here really believe all of the posts attacking Obama. do you believe them and the evidence sited?”

    Are you kidding me? Everything here has a source. And I wouldn’t call them attacks. Let me give you one example of attack – accusing Hillary of spreading Obama in Muslim garb picture is attack, because it doesn’t have any proof.

    And FYI, I will not vote for Obama if he is the nominee. Period.

    Of course, I will not in my good conscience vote for John McCain either. So I guess I will just sit home on election day.

  • DJ

    Please don’t judge by this group. They only have one purpose, destroying Obama. They are like the mad fire ants that devour and destroy anything that’s not like them.

    I used to visit this site when it was still rational, and you could find intelligent comments on it. Now I visit for laughs.

    Luckily, they are irrelevant…

  • barbh

    Well I see the Obama supporters came in and made a mess of this thread. Sigh…

    That really is one great speech. Ever since I saw the play Lysistrata during the Vietnam war era,at the ripe old age of 17, I have been absolutely enchanted with the thought of having a woman president.

    I was wondering the other day about African American Woman, someone above referenced Shirley Chisholm saying that she had experienced more discrimination as a woman than a black.

    What I’m thinking lately is maybe an AA woman, especially a younger AA woman who is discriminated against, would be more likely to assume the root of the discrimination is color based rather than gender based, therefore the gender issue might not be at the top of the list of reasons you are being discriminated against. It was something I was wondering about.

    There are so many women who simply do not realize how far women’s rights have come in the last 30 years AND how far they have yet to go.

    I have to admit that I was much the same until I became educated on what women went through to get the 19th amendment.

  • lurko

    I now emerge from lurkdom to say first I support the Democratic candidate whichever one that may be, but it looks more and more like it will be Obama.

    I did caucus for Obama in Kansas. I am dismayed at the level of animus for Hillary’s opponent here.

    To compare for instance with DK, TPM, or any of the new Villain of the Day generated here, there’s not the day in and day out front page bashing of Hillary that I see comparable to the daily dose of the evil of Obama here.

    As for AA and Rhodes, I don’t get the opportunity to listen, being stuck in the middle of Red State USA.

    If anyone here wishes to vote for McCain’t on ballot or by withholding his/her vote, that’s your God-given right according to our Democracy-Spreading Preznit.

    There’s more I could say, but if you think you’re doing anyone any good who really needs a Democratic president in the White House, by going for McCain or staying at home, please think again.

    Or at least hold your nose, gently of course. I did it for Kerry 4 years ago, and my conscience is still very clear and calm.

    .

  • christian aaron

    well, i tried. i tried to have some kind of dialogue here, and it hasn’t worked at all. shows how far we have to go. i get the “Obamabot” name-calling, i get the “i’m taking my ball and going home” attitude of apparently a 12-year old who doesn’t know what politics is like in this country (yeah, it sucks, and i wish it were different like everyone else….. but it is what it is), and would rather we all have to live with the pain of a McCain administration rather than suck it up and vote for a primary opponent. and i get the “well the Obama supporters made a mess of this thread” when i come in here in good faith to have some kind of a dialogue. i don’t get straight answers, i get answers with attitude, as if we’re all 5-year olds. harumph. Obama spoke to the country as if we’re all adults with words that rang true for lots of folks, but i guess we’re all just crazy and don’t know your sacred truths here….

    and by the way, all these stories written as fact with all that sourcing…. the same could be said of the sources for — Daily Kos, Powerline, or any of the major blogs. i haven’t checked these sources here, just like i haven’t checked the veracity of the Politico column quoted above in this thread. but i know hyperbole when i hear it and i know shrill disappontment and immature ranting as well. i see the the first story on this blog now almost begins with saying “you don’t have to read the rest of the speech, because everything after is a lie”, goes on to tout Clinton huge wins in Texas and Ohio… but, wait, didn’t Obama win more delegates in Texas?

    so, yet again, it’s all about perspective. there is none here. and my attempt at a conversation has ended.

    i hope you can all pinch your noses if the nominee is Obama. i hope we can all learn from the Gore loss in 2000 and the Nader supporters who could have swung it — though i understand the predicament.

    judging by the bile being thrown around here daily without regard to verifiable truth, i have my doubts.

  • christian aaron

    sorry… “cited” i hate stoopid mistakes.

  • lurko

    well now, CA, don’t go away mad, just go away!

    :)

    But leave a blessing and a hope that most will do what they can for their country and friends.

    It’s been my long experience that you cannot persuade by strong emotion.

    It’s how you present yourself and how you treat your opponents.

    .

  • DJ

    ChristianIf you find a rational site, post it here so we can go an communicate there.
    Too bad this blog doesn’t have a feature where you can single out and communicate directly with a particular participants.
    Keep the faith…there are a heck of a lot more of us out there than the self-destructive bunch here…

  • simon

    Keep the faith…there are a heck of a lot more of us out there than the self-destructive bunch here…

    Good luck, DJ.

    May the good lord be with you…

  • simon

    CA, it’s Obama’s criminality.

    It’s all kinda of coming together, Wright, Khalidi, Farrakhan, Hamas, Rezko.

    It stinks, all this pseudo intellectualism.

    Do you think this is a non issue?

  • Northwest rain

    If YOU caucused in WA for Obama — then YOU are my enemy.

    I have NO respect for any of the Obamabots who denigrated the caucus system in WA.

    All you guys did was LIE LIE LIE about Senator Clinton because you guys knew nothing at all about your candidate.

    There is NO way to fix what you idiots have broken.

  • AF catfish

    I did focus groups on discrimination in the workplace, and one AA woman said this – she never knew if the discrimination she experienced was due to her gender or her race.

  • AF catfish

    Now this is a speech. And it’s an inclusive speech. It’s not a manipulative or self-absorbed speech. It swells the heart.

    When I imagine people like Condi Rice being president, I don’t think of that as a woman president. Not that Rice isn’t feminine enough.

    But Hillary Clinton would be a complete president AND a woman president. Boldly standing up for women and children, commander-in-chief, steward of the economy, the whole package.

    This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. We have to pull this off.

  • Northwest rain

    Amen to that –

  • Regency

    In defense of everyone here, having dealt with several Obama supporters who were neither rational nor honest, and having name-calling directed at us, it is very easy to believe that all Obama supporters are that way. We fall into patterns of habit very easily. It’s not good, but it is true.

    I love that speech. This woman should be president and that speech should be played for all to see. That was a political risk and she took it when it shouldn’t have mattered. She wasjust first lady. What was her stake in this? That’s a woman I want to get up and stand for me.

  • Patrick Henry

    Wow..Did anyone just hear what O’Riely said about KOS and the writers Strike..??
    OMG

  • lurko

    Regency:

    In defense of everyone here, having dealt with several Obama supporters who were neither rational nor honest, and having name-calling directed at us, it is very easy to believe that all Obama supporters are that way. We fall into patterns of habit very easily. It’s not good, but it is true.

    Oh yes, I am very nice! And here at Castle Anthrax . . . oops, sorry, wrong story and I’m not a lady.

    Truth and beauty of soul wherever they come from can be tested and judged.

    And appreciated when we find them.

    Sometimes we only find bits and pieces, but if collected, we benefit.

    .

  • Regency

    Truth and beauty of soul wherever they come from can be tested and judged.

    And appreciated when we find them.

    Sometimes we only find bits and pieces, but if collected, we benefit.

    While I’m a little baffled by your previous statement, this resonated with me. Of course, I doubt you care what resonates with me.

  • John

    I wonder if you spend any time at all at DailyKos, HuffPo, MoveOn, etc. admonishing them to keep it civil as they try to outdo eachother in burying Hillary in mud.

    I really doubt it, though.

  • John

    Yes, Obama won more delegates in Texas, even though Hillary won the popular vote. And that, I suspect, bothers you not in the slightest.

    Hillary won Nevada, too- but split the delegates evenly with Obama. That doesn’t bother you either.

    1.7 million people voted in Florida, where all the candidates were on the ballot- but those delegates will not be counted. Hillary took the heat in New Hampshire and Iowa by keeping her name on the ballot in Michigan. Those delegates wont count either. I bet you have no problem there, either.

    Because it’s all about winning, not fairness. Please, take your sanctimony where people are really civil- like one of the many, MANY Obama-worshipping, Hillary-hating sites available with a click of the mouse.

  • lurko

    No I don’t, but does it matter?

    .

  • Cath

    Yes, I would vote for Obama if he achieves the nomination. Why? Well, for one, think John McCain and his Supreme Court appointments, and how that would affect us and our children, and grandchildren. Scary!

    Even the most ardent Hillary supporter (like me) owes that much to the future of our country should Obama be the candidate come November 2008.

    HOWEVER, Obama is very much my SECOND CHOICE and I hope he has some darned good advisors, because words aren’t all the Commander-in-Chief needs, and right now, that’s all Obama seems to have. That, and his “rock star” status as created by the media.

    Hillary Clinton is my FIRST CHOICE for the difficult times ahead.

  • simon

    I will not vote for a man with terrorist associations, one associated with another, Rezko, so corrupt he could still be living in Syria.

    Obama is unqualified to be president.

    Obama’s people are too stupid IMO, to be anywhere NEAR the presidency.

    IMO, they present a security risk, and if they present a security risk, life will be incredibly difficult for them.

    Even looking at his strategy, it’s very specious.

    And personally, I’ve had enough of incompetent, stupid men who can’t understand strategy, or even troll.

  • Cath

    Actually, while I disagree with some of the outright and unsubstantiated Obama-bashing here, I find this site a welcome relief from other sites I usually visit (e.g., Talking Points Memo) where they have proclaimed Obama as God-Messiah-Who-Can-Do-No-Wrong, while portraying Hillary as the source of all evil.

    It’s refreshing to get a different perspective.

    Obama might make a great president someday, but it’s too early. Right now he strikes me as a somewhat arrogant and elitist “upstart” created by Big Media who are actually afraid of what might happen if a woman gains real power, especially one the MSM has so maligned in the past.

    It’s probably not Obama himself, but the arrogance of some of his supporters that I find so annoying.

  • simon

    i’m just being honest. i will vote for Hillary, but the truth of what i thought about this blog is starting to come now. lots of people here would not vote for Obama, and it’s ridiculous

    CA, a few others posters here, Shirin, Cujo and Kathleen, think like you, perhaps you can stick aournd and speak to them.

    You have a lot in common.

  • Ann

    Obama has done everything he can to discredit Hillary Clinton who has ten times the accomplishments and courage than he will ever have. Today in a lame effort to distract the media — he complained his passport records had been breached and tried again to blame Hillary Clinton. Turns out, her records and those of John McCain had likewise been breached several times. Oops — another non-story. Whose “whining” now?

    If Senator Obama gets a wart on his behind, is his campaign going to blame her for that too? Heck, if she’s that all-powerful, maybe we should elect her President, for in addition to her many other attributes, she is also capable of the Vulcan mind-meld.

    She has had problems with her campaign earlier on, no doubt, but seems to have righted the ship — she has had to contend with old attacks from Repub. talking points, a completely sexist and biased media that trashes her undeservedly and fawns over Obama (also undeservedly) — not to mention his condescending attitiude and attacks — he has more money and in some states outspent her 2:1, 3:1 and in Wisconsin even 5:1 and he still hasn’t been able to put her away.

    Now, after months of no one bothering to vet him – the buyer’s remorse is just starting to setting in –This is not only Sen. Obama’s fault. When the MSM and his handlers try to sell a “myth” instead of a man, sooner or later the walls have to come crashing down when the truth is revealed, i.e., Rev. Wright, “typical white person”, his Rezko ties which go deeper and deeper than he first indicated — which he slowly seems to be remembering (when he has no choice). His supporters were trying to sell him as some messianic figure. Clearly he is not. He is a newbie Senator, inexperienced and his campaign is showing it. He is just a man, flawed like everyone else.

    And by the way, since “words matter” to him so much, how nice it would be if he didn’t keep contradicting himself every two days and what he knows and doesn’t know about his pastor of twenty years.

  • simon

    Have you thought of framing your message with less bandwidth?

    I try to read your posts, but they follow format, and well, your arguments are tautological.

    Try editing, you might be more persuasive.

    As it is, you appear to be trolling.

    And badly.

    The better trolls are not being so obvious.

  • simon

    John-please calm down

    John did not appear upset, perhaps you misread?

  • simon

    Obama is criminal, one look at Rezko should tell you all you need to know.

    So you are being disingenuous.

    Unsophisticated troll like behavior is unhelpful, to you.

  • simon

    sorry… “cited” i hate stoopid mistakes.

    And yet you still troll?

    How brave.

  • simon

    You know, it’s so easy to be become fooled, especially when we become self deluded.

    And I see that with Obama supporters, the more they try to troll, the more deluded they become, prisoners of their heads.

    And that’s very dangerous.

    Especially when you don’t understand how you’re being handled.

  • norrismorris

    You aren’t wrong, except that Florida and MI are a big problem for the party.

    Obama is not going to go over with the electorate in spite of the Democrat’s wet dreams.

    He will be nominated, and it will be more than troublesome.

    Convention will be a mess. Obama is a charlatan, and the race card will be played and played incessantly.

    Hillary is too behind but with Florida revote and Mi, she could have gotten closer.

    But there is trouble within this fractious and misguided party.

  • John

    That’s a passive-aggressive’s way of trying to win an argument he knows he’s losing- “calm down,” followed by “look, nobody’s right and nobody’s wrong..”

    See- “don’t get hysterical” and “calm down” are code words for “stop making sense, I don’t know how to react to it.”

  • Patti

    Her speach was great, not a political move to save herself.. She is not a Democrat Du Jour..

  • christian aaron

    so i came back to see the final responses to my attempt at communication here. and i am called a troll and en enemy. and we’re all Democrats? wow. excepting the person who called my arguments tautological, which i would love to see explained, as i see no examples of tautology there. perhaps “it does not mean what you think it means”??

    so apparently i’m some kind of progressive troll and an enemy to Democracy in Washington State. yeah, this blog isn’t full of unhinged whackos…. nosiree…..

    there’s a reason human beings cannot dig themselves out of the abyss until we evolve. it’s on display here on a daily basis….

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