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Words Matter, Even for a Liar

Square these words — these wholely different versions of the facts — Senator Obama.

You told CNN’s Larry King last night, “They were statements that I wasn’t aware of, were not brought to my attention until fairly recently. I wasn’t in the church when he said those things.”

However, in your supposedly historic speech the day before, you said, “Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely.”

As someone just said on television, “If a white politician sat in a church where David Duke spewed his racial hatred, they would be finished.” Why not you, Mr. Obama? Especially since you’ve lied repeatedly, back and forth, whether you ever heard Rev. Wright’s anti-American and highly racist rhetoric? And you’ve lied about whether or not you were in church.

I dare you to follow me below … I dare you …

Yes, it is by Pat Buchanan. But, no matter your opinion of some of his political positions, everyone who I know agrees that he is an astute observer of the political scene and has an intellectual and historic grasp of politics like few others. In his words below, I feel his anger and his frustration. And, quite honestly, I share some of his anger:

A Brief for Whitey
by Patrick J. Buchanan
Posted: 03/21/2008

How would he pull it off? I wondered.

How would Barack explain to his press groupies why he sat silent in a pew for 20 years as the Rev. Jeremiah Wright delivered racist rants against white America for our maligning of Fidel and Gadhafi, and inventing AIDS to infect and kill black people?

How would he justify not walking out as Wright spewed his venom about “the U.S. of K.K.K. America,” and howled, “God damn America!”

My hunch was right. Barack would turn the tables.

That’s right. It’s on you and me. We’re responsible for Rev. Wright’s anti-Americanism and racism. Buchanan then provides the typically cited reasons.

Buchanan says, “We hear the grievances.” Then, listing the trillions of dollars spent in trying to right the wrongs of our nation’s history of racism, he dares to ask, “Where is the gratitude?”

You must read Buchanan’s piece in full (A Brief for Whitey) — I cannot quote all of the examples that Buchanan cites. Here is how he concludes his essay:

As for racism, its ugliest manifestation is in interracial crime, and especially interracial crimes of violence. Is Barack Obama aware that while white criminals choose black victims 3 percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time?

Is Barack aware that black-on-white rapes are 100 times more common than the reverse, that black-on-white robberies were 139 times as common in the first three years of this decade as the reverse?

We have all heard ad nauseam from the Rev. Al about Tawana Brawley, the Duke rape case and Jena. And all turned out to be hoaxes. But about the epidemic of black assaults on whites that are real, we hear nothing.

Sorry, Barack, some of us have heard it all before, about 40 years and 40 trillion tax dollars ago.

Now go ahead and call me a racist for quoting Pat Buchanan.

My problem is this: I have seen and heard examples of REAL racism. What Geraldine Ferraro said was not racist. It was, at worst, ill-advised. It was not racist. How dare Obama bring her up in comparison to Rev. Wright. And how dare he — especially — bring up his dear grandmother who sacrificed so much to ensure that he would have the best possible education and life?

Whenever people scream “racism” over every slight — including the most ridiculous instances — they infuriate people like me who DO care about the instances of REAL RACISM. Worst of all, they harm the validity of the cases of people who HAVE suffered from real racism.

Someone anonymous wrote, in an e-mail, the following, and it sums up the indignation I am feeling right now. This person had just read Buchanan’s essay. This person is a proud liberal. But this person is angry:

I loved Doris Lessing, the winner of the Nobel Prize for Lit this year and a disavowed Communist, saying:

“I hated the 1960′s feminists. They were dogmatists, you see. In comes ideology, and out goes common sense. This is my experience in life.”

Right now, because of the use of racism by the Obama campaign, I’m not in a very good mood to discuss what one race has failed to do for another. Right now I’m not in the mood for us to start work on the economy, the war, health care. In fact, I’m rather irritated right now with
this diversion to save his campaign.

The Knave from Chicago strikes again.

  • hillarysmygirl

    I am a woman of color, I have experienced a lot of first hand racism and I agree with you, I am a long time admirer of Geraldine Ferraro and do not consider her a racist. My husband, who is Jewish, and I have been amused and slightly surprised to be agreeing with Pat Buchanan a lot these days, especially on MSNBC…I don’t agree with a lot of his political views, but he DOES understand politics and has managed to remain one of the only objective voices in the Obama Love Affair going on at MSNBC. Thanks for a great article.

    Speaking of racism, is the Reverend James Meeks (one of Barack’s spiritual advisors) the next big problem for Barack?

    http://tinyurl.com/32oo4m

  • glennmcgahhee

    First? Tell it like it is. REALLY!

  • simon

    Money, they ask for money.

    Strikes me as the AA equivalent of Benny Hinn, in terms of showmanship.

  • fooj

    He has no integrity. None.

    His arrogance astounds me. He TRULY does believe that he is above it all.

  • themomcat

    Why is it that I find myself agreeing with Pat Buchanan more every day?

  • mimi

    I first started paying attention to Buchanan in his run for the presidency. I was shocked to find more than a few areas where I agreed with him. I mean SHOCKED! Of course, the areas of differences far out weigh the commonalities, but I began to observe him and found him to be very astute, knowledgeable of political history and surprisingly objective. Although not all the time. He’s very accurate when it comes to predictions on the McGlauglin Group. It made me wonder what if a smart man like this had instead been supported by the Republican Party and won the WH instead of W? Could it really have been any worse? I can’t believe he would have gone into Iraq. Buchanan was at one point preaching serious Isolationism at the beginning of the 21st Century. Maybe we would have been better off in some ways. Maybe less in debt. I mean could he really have been worse than Bush/Cheney? And Buchanan had an AA female running mate.

    The only thing I strongly disagree with from this piece is that Jena was not a hoax. Jena spun out of control because the school and the school board didn’t handle the affair properly. The parents overrided the principal’s suspension of the kids that hung the rope and that’s when the anger and animosity got out of control. People don’t like to see their kids disciplined even when they deserve it. All you need do is look at all these young Obamatons to see what the end results of that kind of parenting are. A generation of kids with very little powers of discernment and judgment.

  • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

    Good point about Jena. I missed that in his piece, and should have noted it.

    By the way, we wrote about Jena here at No Quarter… a search using our search engine will bring up the articles.

  • kimmy

    Let me add something about bo’s recent “denunciations”. For it to have any value, a denunciation has to stand on it’s own. It simply does. To say “I denounce…” while insinuating a third person (Ferraro, Clinton, one’s grandmother) into the equation completely annihilates the original intent. To denounce Wright, and in the same breath imply “but Ferraro did the same thing”, “but Clinton’s also quite the racist”, “but even my grandmother….”, “but…”, “but…”, “but….”

    It doesn’t cut it.

    And further more, to “denounce”, in blanket fashion, “what Wright said” (I’m sorry, I can’t use the title “Reverend” when referring to that person), is also worth-less. I’d rather know specifically what b.o. rejects and what he doesn’t. I’d rather hear “I denounce Wright for calling on god to denounce the U.S.”, “I reject referring to this country as the U.S. of KKK A.”, “I reject the notion that our government has created HIV, etc, for the purpose of destroying the AA community”…….

    To simply say in broad terms “I reject what Wright said”, even if repeated three times with slight variations in wording, is ineffective, insincere and weak.

  • mimi

    Thanks, Susan.

    I read the Buchanan piece and as always where Pat and I part paths is on religion. But that’s another conversation.

    And this is where me and Obama part paths, that to have a REAL conversation about race, we can’t just do what Obama did in his speech, lay everything at the feet of the white community.

    This is a very unpopular position in the black community. But as an AA I’m tired of our leaders always pointing the finger away from personal responsibility and accountability. We’ve been there, done that and the problems still exist. It’s time for a fresh approach.

    All Obama did with that speech is confirm for me why he isn’t the one. If all he’s going to do is more of the same, why is he THE CHOSEN? And certainly there’s no CHANGE in that..

  • Patrick Henry

    Movie Night..

    Got a bag of Kettle Korn..

    Gonna Watch THE INTERPRETER..Hope its Good..

    Happy Easter everyone..

  • http://wiebs47 Colleen

    I’m angry. I’m really angry, too!! I am so tired of AA community blaming white America for any and all of their problems. I’m not a racist. I marched for civil rights in the 60′s. and have always been a person who has worked for human rights. I have a gay son.

    It seems to me that many in the AA community live their lives as victims, never taking responsibility for their actions, always blaming others for their problems. Obama keeps fanning the flames with his rhetoric and I find myself agreeing with Pat Buchanan and fox News. What’s wrong with this picture?

    I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!

  • http://revhead Eilene Bisgrove

    While I support Hillary all the way, I think that Pat Buchanan’s opinion piece is way out of line. Starting 400 years ago, Africans did not decide to come to America, they we’re brought here under the most heinous of conditions and forced to build much of this country with their sweat, blood, lives, and no pay. We certainly need more balanced discussions and solutions for today’s problems, but to say that America GAVE African Americans the oportunity to reproduce, the good life and Christianity, etc, is insane! I enjoy No Quarter as a place to hear alternatives to the Obama madness in the MSM, but I could do without Pat Buchanan’s facist blather!
    A concerned white, older female pastor.

  • justsomeone

    I just read a story on Comcast News, “Obama Aide: Bill Clinton Like McCarthy” by Matt Apuzzo…It talks about a retired Air Force General who is old enough to recall the McCarthy era & compares Joe McCarthy’s tactics to the Clinton campaign.

  • Mel

    No one figure out yet why the Clinton’s have been so quiet the past week about all this?

    Somethings brewing, something very big is brewing, can’t you just smell it?

    Something even doesn’t sit right with the Richardson endorsement today! Why would a prize endorsement be in Oregon when the key states now are PA and NC? Would you not want to parade such an endorsement in a key State? Everything has been about timing, something is brewing big time!

    Could the tarnish of the DNP been too much with the revelation of the Rev Wright fiasco? In politics, it is all about saving face, and the DNC knows that saving Obama isn’t going to fair well at all come November!

    Everything with Obama is self induced poison right now, every time he opens his mouth, he riles anger from people and his being nominee will cost more than just the Whitehouse, it will destroy standings in the Congress and Senate as well!

  • Taters

    Colleen,
    The vast majority of people who I work with, including my boss, are African American.
    None of them blame “the man” – please don’t take those that that may expound that view
    as a majority of the AA community. Most of us, the vast majority of all of us – all races and gender are too busy dealing with what’s in front of us to even think of assigning blame. It’s used as a tool to separate us.
    Sincerely,
    Robert Murray

    Now I’m angry as hell about some of the tactics of this campaign, too. Keep the passion!

  • Flineo

    Thank you Susan.
    For seeing through the facade and speaking up.
    What a post!

  • justsomeone

    Both Obama & Hillary have recently said they might hold off on increasing taxes until the economy recovers. This was not well circulated in the MSM, it’s like their tax hike proposals are getting a free pass. Obama also wants to double foreign aid, not much debate on the issues here, it’s like they don’t exist.

  • Hope

    Yes as you can see, Obama is really bringing us all together isn’t he? He’s just bringing such peace between AAs and Whites!

    I am so angry every time I see Rev Wrong. My blood boils! I can’t even write what I’m feeling and thinking.

    How many days after 9/11 did this miscreant spout such hate? This guy is a pig.

  • Hope

    Oh yes and one more thing: African Americans ALSO died in those 9/11 attacks! What about them? Dont’ they count Rev Wright? Making such vicious accusations and statements while your own people died in those attacks too! FOOL! If this man was truly a spiritual leader he would have NEVER spouted such hatred about people’s lives being cut short through such violence.

    Those who live by the sword, die by the sword Rev Wright!

  • rosaleen

    I think it’s fair to say that the black/white racial issues we have in his country can be laid at the feet of the white race. We started it, we created it, here. I think for the most part it’s been laid at the feet of the white race. It’s like an old woman I know once put it, it’s ok to tell the truth but you don’t have to always be telling it.

    We don’t need to dwell on the sins of white people who have been dead for hundreds of years. We need to find constructive ways to heal the damage. We don’t need racial inflammation preached from the pulpits in America. We don’t need people leading this country who immerse themselves in hateful rhetoric. In my opinion, of course. I could be wrong.

    As for Buchanan’s trillions of dollars, it was all done on the cheap, throwing as little cash as possible to the crowds. We never worked hard enough to heal the wounds of our country. But we do like picking those old scabs.

  • rosaleen

    Obama also wants to double foreign aid? Then he better be raising some taxes and I guess he knows where to go for it, too.

  • DaleA

    First I thought I needed to get my hearing checked. Then realized the Buchanan makes sense from time to time. He was also the first to call the MSNBC crew on their sexism. Which floored me. Just like hearing an intelligient drug policy from Ron Paul.

    Mel, my thought is that this is just the beginning of a long train of information that will be coming out. Have seen mysterious comments about Obama’s years at Columbia being missing. And being looked into. Who knows how many radicals are in Obama’s orbit. Rezko is an unexploded bomb still. Then there is Michelle who has a vast ability to say truly dumb offensive things. Chicago politics is always waiting to give wonderous things. When are Obama’s political opponents in Chicago going to start dishing dirt?

  • Kourian

    They’re going for broke. The blacks. They always have. They’re a race apart. They’re not like the Hispanics or the Chinese or the whatever. Or the jews. All these people – so many minorities and of course womankind, the greatest minority of them all – have suffered and struggled in comparative silence and never been caught out with a centrist agenda. But the blacks in the US have always had someone proselytising this agenda. Theirs is a strategy to play on historical racism to turn the tables and come out on top. They’re not interested in equality. Or justice. Not these people. Given there are so many of them it’s not surprising Obama caters to them. There’s always the fear that if the pollsters find out he’s losing support amongst the blacks it will all unravel. But this is crass and calculating and bespeaks this person’s total lack of integrity and honesty. In addition to his blatant lack of genuineness which is apparent from the get-go. And it’s worse than that actually: for it doesn’t work. This whole Obama campaign – the quarter of a billion that will be wasted on it with otherwise seasoned (but well paid) PR strategists – smacks so much amateurism and in my estimation is a blight on good black people. Who are beginning to realise Barack Hussein Obama not only through his lack of character but through his amateurish campaign is making all blacks everywhere look bad and look like hopeless losers. Obama’s done more damage to race relations than slavery itself.

  • susanunpc

    Thank you for your eloquent voice through your videos. We are all grateful to you here.

  • Dora Ratquila

    As I had mentioned in a previous comment, one major trait of a prospective Commander-in-Chief is the strength of character to take the blame for bad/wrong decision-making. In the short time that he has been in the public eye, I have yet to hear or read about Sen. Obama making a clear, unequivocal apology that doesn’t involve pinning the blame on other people. And his unique ability to lie repeatedly without even a trace of hesitation out of respect for the good memory of the TV audience (or that of their TiVo or DVD-R capable TVs) is disturbing. There is something pathological about the man that scares the bejesus out of me. Beyond the ability to take the 3am call, I am terrified just imagining him being given the power over our nuclear bombs. David Axelrod and his accomplices in the media can just try so hard but a 5,000-word speech cannot erase his 20-year support for Rev. Wright’s anti-Americanism! How do Kerry, McCaskill and Richardson expect the US allies – and especially its critics and those who seek to destroy America – to treat a leader whose word cannot be trusted and who has for 20 years agreed with the sick theology of his closest spiritual adviser who shares the “God Damn America” stand of the late Ayatollah Khomeini? This country will become an even more pathetic laughing stock for rewarding racial hatred, anti-patriotism and the worst kind of political doublespeak. God bless America and i pray that the American people save the Democratic Party!

  • rwc

    They were dogmatists, you see. In comes ideology, and out goes common sense.

    This explains so very well Obama’s supporters acting like Chairman Mao’s little red book waving fanatics.

    It also scares me in that millions of supposedly young and well educated people would willing turn a blind eye to a hate monger and racial divider like Wright and Obama’s friendship with him with right line of bullshit.

    Whats ironic is that many of these were the same people who just a few years ago were calling Bush supporters fedayeen, goosesteppers and fascists for being such witless followers and claimed great moral and intellectual superiority as well.

    Now we see them wallowing in the same pigsty as Cheney and David Duke.

    What a bunch of pretentious frauds and moral pygmies.

  • Tony Drake

    First, I’m an immigrant. Not black, not white.
    No society is perfect. No government is perfect. But from personal experience in living and working in several countries and from the sheer honesty of knowing, the United States of America is by far the most open and most enabling society. With all its flaws, this country has opened its arms and provided opportunities to countless new comers and minorities, in ways no other countries have. Sure, there are disadvantages for minorities like myself, but the advantages are far far more. That’s just plain true! I’ve lived through (and endured) the kind of politics like Obama’s in other worlds. As I watch him lies repeatedly straight face to the american people from Rezko, NAFTA to now about rev Wright, all the while preaching higher ideals, I’m disheartened. Pat Buchanan is spot on. Obama’s politic is disingenuous, manipulative and unconstructive. It is purely self-serving, fueled by unbridled ambition. His tactics are so thinly veiled. The majority of his surrogates and endorsers show the undeniable traits of shrewed opportunists rather than of true leaders and public servants. I’m amazed at the naivety of the mass out there. Obama embodies the kind of politics I’ve risked my life to run away from many years ago. It’s ironic that it resurfaces here in America – of all places.

    I do wish the silent majority of America does rise up to preserve this great country.

  • mimi

    I concur. I had meant to mention that as well but got caught up in the more recent Jena affair and wanted to comment on it instead.

    There’s no question about him being way out of line there and what Buchanan doesn’t realize is how this statement is as insidious as Obama laying everything at white America’s feet. Surely there’s a middle ground we can find to get beyond the question.

    But I think the LARGER point Pat’s making is what most seem to making here on this blog: Obama can’t take people hostage on the basis of race and white guilt. This is a democracy and people have a right to choose the candidate they prefer and not be called names about it.

    There are a lot of profound objections that many have on Obama’s qualifications, experience, preparedness to govern and his character. He has not been forthright and has tried to be propelled into office riding the crest of a wave portraying him as some kind of ‘sainted political deliverer’ and I ain’t buyin it!

    I think it is deceptive, dishonest and manipulative to the point of cunning. And now that this Wright thing has called race into question in a way that has everyone up in arms, I feel all the more disquieted by this man’s candidacy.

    Pat Buchanan is an extremely intelligent man who is blinded by his religious zealotry. At the bottom of those statements about how blacks should be greatful about having endured the barbarity of the Middle Passage and the inhumanity of slavery and the ensuing violence after the Emancipation is his staunch belief that being delivered to Christ for Salvation is a glorious end that justifies the means. The problem is that if you are not Christian, where does that leave you? And certainly one of the first freedoms the founding fathers gave us was freedom of religion. Where does Buchanan get off forgetting that?

  • Latina

    Liberal activists choose Obama over Clinton in new straw pollBy Carrie Sheffield
    March 20, 2008

    http://washingtontimes.com/article/20080320/NATION/657402380/1001

    Sen. Barack Obama spoke at a college in Charlotte, N.C., yesterday as results of a straw poll of liberal activists showed him with a 50-percentage-point lead over Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination. (Associated Press)

    Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama defeated rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton by more than 50 percentage points in a new straw poll of liberal activists.

    Seventy-two percent of those polled said they would like to see Mr. Obama of Illinois become the party’s nominee for president, while 16 percent said they would rather see Mrs. Clinton of New York get the nod. Twelve percent of respondents said they would be satisfied with either Mr. Obama or Mrs. Clinton in the general election against likely Republican nominee Sen. John McCain.

    The results were released yesterday at the Take Back America conference in Washington, where about 2,000 activists met this week to discuss progressive policy issues and voter mobilization strategy. Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton spoke at the conference last year but both declined to attend this year.
    “It looks like a lot of Edwards” support has gone towards Barack,” said Anna Greenberg, senior vice president of Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research, which conducted the poll with Politico.com.
    A striking 41 percent of respondents said they would be “dissatisfied” if Mrs. Clinton was the nominee, compared with just 8 percent of straw poll voters who said they would be “dissatisfied” with Mr. Obama.

    Miss Greenberg said such a trend would be troubling for Mrs. Clinton if she wins her party”s nomination and could potentially disillusion new voters who had been attracted to the race by Mr. Obama.

  • vee

    Obama is psychologically much like a sociopath. He looks like he cares and talks like he cares, but emotionally, there is nothing there. In the debates, he lies and glosses over his inconsistencies without a flicker of emotion. He could just as easily be talking about the weather. One of the problems, among many, I have always had with him is that he comes across so cold in interviews. That seems so paradoxical when people at his rallies are crying and behaving so hysterically. I think he doesn’t have a sense of right and wrong in the conventional sense. I think he views the world more on the basis of what he wants and what he thinks with little regard to others. People are objects to use to get what he wants.

  • bert

    Yes, Susan, this is an excellent post, as always. And like many of the others who have posted I feel kind of strange agreeing with so much that Pat Buchanan wrote.

    I think it was Winston Churchill who said that if you aren’t a liberal in your youth, you have no heart; and if you aren’t a conservative in your old age, you haven’t learned anything.

    Well, I am definately not a conservative, but nevertheless I have learned a lot since the ’60s.

    I can’t remember now where I found this article in the American Thinker. I think maybe Taylor Marsh. It is about a man who claims he met Obama on an airplane and had an intersting conversation with him. Also don’t know if it is true ot not.

    In any event, it is a good and interesting read and dove tails with a lot of what Buchanan said. The link is below.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/obamas_anger.html

  • Hope

    Is the Democratic Party trying to self-destruct?

  • concerned/uncertain
  • chris

    oh you gotta love Benny Hinn, he’s the greatest con since…Wait no…make that Robert Tilton…HE’S THE GREATEST CON in terms of showmanship. Did you want an annointed prayer cloth?
    (i know, i know, i’m off topic)

  • chris

    Because you are really a Republican and hate all people but the lilly white Hal Turner. You really enjoy FoxNews and find Hannity’s voice smooth and comforting. (sorry, i’m in a silly mood, forgive my sarcasm for I know not what I do)

    Yeah it’s kind of pathetic to find myself tuning out MSNBC and watching FoxNews to see what they are willing to cover on this. I have a ‘mute’ button on most of the time, but still. I’m glad to still have my remote control intact after throwing it at KO and Tweety’s face over and over. I just can’t keep beating up my Television so we deleted MSNBC from the lineup.

  • Jake

    You know something is wrong with a liberal’s argument when it has to rely on Pat “Treblinka” Buchanan for support.

    On this blog I see more attempts to divide us by race than to unify us behind Clinton. I think that says a lot. It says that a lot of Clinton supporters have nothing but politics as usual and that they believe the only way they can win is by tearing Obama down. That’s desperation I suppose, but it’s a particularly ugly kind of display in a party that’s supposed to represent forward thinking on civil rights. If anything, Clinton supporters like the ones here are tainting my opinion of her. I was prepared to vote for whichever Democrat received the nomination, but if the people on this blog are the type of people who would be empowered by her election, I’m not sure that’s what I want.

    I’m not a member of an organized party. I’m a Democrat.

  • http://www.dwarfhamster.com dhamstermd

    I have been a Pat B. fan for a long time and agree with him on many issues,. Granted he had less to loose than GWB in the 2000 FL count, Pat was quick to point out that all the voteds he got from Jewish areas were most likely not his. My problem is not Pat, its that I am finding other strange spokesman out there I am in agreement with. My list now includes names like Sean Hannity, Michael Regean, Charles Krauthammer, Karl Rove, Neut Gingrich, Ken Blackwell and even accassionl Rush Limbaugh. It was back on the evening of the SC. Primary that I abandoned MSNBC for good. Watching the sweaty faces of foursome of Olbermann, Russet, Medau, and Eugene Robinson as they in a strange erotic like manner derived such almost orgasmic mob like pleasure at the destruction of HC, was like nothing I had ever seen on TV. I leave you with a couple of questions I have. Why are all “Democratic Strategists” BO pushers? What is a “Social Commentator” as they too seem to include backing BO as part of they’re job descriptions. I’m beginning to think that many life long Hillary haters are beginning to see that there are far worse possibilities then her out there.

  • Kourian

    ‘Pat B’ as you call him is totally off the map. He doesn’t even belong in the same century. Or perhaps millennium. ;)

  • Art

    I used to read this blog and appreciated its factual intelligence analysis and info about the insanity of the current administration. Now it’s a total turnaround. The bashing is all about members of the Democratic Party. It’s like watching Fox or listening to Rush/Savage. Can’t you guys wake up and see how you’re playing right into McBush’s dreams of continuing the bush era? Stop it already!

  • Hope

    Obama Has a Dream! His Own Personal Passion Play!

    Obama believes that he alone embodies a high-minded brand of 21st Century “noblesse oblige”. He is the first Black Knight who will lead his people into the Promised Land. For years under the tutelage of Rev Wright, his own personal John the Baptist, he has carefully tendered his “specialness” – he has studied and absorbed all that has been prepared for and delivered to him. It is his time and he knows it. He dreams it, smells it, sees it and keeps his promise to educate and instill right and holy thinking in the masses, those undereducated hordes who have kept his Chosen People enslaved! God has called him out of Egypt, Africa!

    He has legions of angels who follow him daily, nightly, eternally. He has legions of disciples who swear their allegiance to him and invoke his hypnotic name. Yes! It is his name alone that deeply stirs and passionately ignites the heart of all the faithful. “My sheep know my voice and they come when I call.”

    Just another 21st Century Tent Revival!

  • http://big-daddy-sweet-baby-cheesecakes.blogspot.com/ unclekracker

    Geraldine Ferraro and Barack Obama have each said that Barack Obama benefits from his race. When she said it, all hell broke lose.

    When he has said it, no big deal. He even has the audacity to state it on his own Senate web site.

    New York Times article: http://tinyurl.com/28zax9

    Obama senate web page: http://tinyurl.com/26uvax

  • http://www.dwarfhamster.com dhamstermd

    A few months ago I would have felt the same way as you Art, but now I am of the belief that even McBush might not be the worst for the future of the USA.

  • Jake

    This blog has got to be a front for the Republican noise machine. There’s just no way a real Democrat could say with a straight face that Bush or McCain would be better than Obama. That’s derangement on the order of insanity. Has this blog been totally infiltrated by tricky Freepers or something?

  • Hope

    Hi Jake:

    I’m a Democrat too. You see it is a party that includes many kinds of people. This is America and we can hold any view we please. We don’t have to toe a party line, nor do we have to listen to or subscribe to a prescribed list of papers, blogs, journalists, news networks, podcasts or what have you to fulfill the requirements for being deemed Democrats.

    As far as your vote: One should vote for a candidate because one believes in what that particular candidate stands for and what that candidate can do for their country. If you consider our brand of “Democrat” expression strange and distasteful maybe you should just take it in stride and consider yourself blessed that you are being exposed to different kinds of Democrats/Republicans or what-have-you. It is an exciting thing to get exposure to a multitude of ideas whether that be right of left in leaning. IF we were all the same it would be incredibly stifling and I doubt we would ever expand our horizons.

  • Hope

    I wouldn’t vote for McCain if you paid me all the money in the world. Why do you assume that Jake? Just because we don’t like Obama?

    Listen to yourself.

  • Taters

    Hmmm, McCarthy saw a commie under every rock.
    Jeremiah Wright, Obama’s spiritual mentor sees a racist under every rock.
    Well at least somebody got half the analogy right.

  • Eddie

    Vee, I’m in Texas and you’re cold comment registered. I don’t know if you saw it or not, but in Texas he ran an ad that started off with a photo of his mother and it was for healthcare. He just mentions matter of factly, at the start of the commercial, that his mother died of breast cancer, like he’s ticking off things on a shopping list. It really rubbed me wrong (but I was already for Hillary). In Texas, when politicians mention their mothers in ads, even if the mothers are alive, they tend to really go to town. Phil Gramm (a Republican) had this commercial he ran every election cycle about “My mother always says” and it was pretty hokey but people remembered it. In my area (DFW) people were talking about Obama’s commercial but not in a good way. And the word women especially were using (Obama supporters included) was your word “cold.”

  • Jake

    Hey Hope, try reading the post I responded to.

  • http://www.dwarfhamster.com dhamstermd

    Jake If you are referring to me so far I have over 30 yrs of voting Democratic. I’m not sure McBush once elected would be the same as the plain Bush.

    Below is a comment I grabbed from the original Buchanan article, it is worth considering.

    “Listen carefully, as this message is counterintuitive. If we really want to bring down the liberal establishment in both parties, the best thing to do is give them enough rope to hang themselves. How many conservatives really feel that the Republican party can get any more destructive than it already is or that McCain will not go along with every piece of liberal social legislation that comes his way? I thought so. In other words, we’re between a rock and a hard place. In order to get out of this, let’s all hold our noses and vote for Obama. His presidency will be walking into one of the most disruptive economic periods since the 1930s and he will also have to cope with the avalanche of baby boomers claiming retirement benefits from the government. My guess is that the next president will be even less popular than the idiot we now have. By letting Obama and his nutcase friends into the White House, we will see leftism discredited in a way that no conservative could purposely accomplish. Think hard about it. A hard right conservative backlash against an Obama presidency could bring us to power in 2012. Forget McCain. He’s already a disaster. Let’s hand off the poison pill to Obama…then stand back and watch the fireworks!”

  • Taters

    Hey, Hill’s my girl – 100%!

  • TeakWoodKite

    In JR High I witnessed the first of several race riots.
    It haunts me to this day. Italians and Blacks going at with homemade weapons, with all the colorful “trash” caught in the middle. A boy who had absolutely nothing to do with any of it was beaten with in hair of his life. God knows why 200+ black students in that JR High ran him down. He is a vegetable to this day.

    Do I still carry the anger of the memory to this day? You bet. My 8th grade class was studying “Lord of Flies” at the time.

    Do I understand why that poor red haired Irish kid was brutally beaten as he ran? Nope and I never will.

    I am I able separate that angry memory of my past from the life I live today and treat people with individual dignity and respect? You bet. Why? Because I took Martin Luther Kings words to heart.
    It does not matter what the color of my skin is, just the content of my character.

  • Jake

    Yes Hope, I can’t tell you how thrilled I am to see that Democrats can be just as petty, race-baiting, soundbite-spewing, record-distorting, and dishonest as the Republicans. How exciting and eyeopening!

  • jwrjr

    Perhaps you jump to a conclusion. Of the present candidates, the only one worse than Obama is McCain. Clinton isn’t great, but she is far better than the alternatives. (I am registered ‘unaffiliated’ so that I can criticize either party as seems appropriate.)

  • http://www.dwarfhamster.com dhamstermd

    Above comment by Xenophon, AtlantaMar 21, 2008 @ 09:03 AM

  • Jake

    I dunno, dhamstermd, that seems too clever by half. Denying your party an opportunity for victory because you’re afraid things might be too scary in 2008 sounds an awful lot like cowardice to me.

    And you know what, since you’re a self-identified Buchanan fan and “agree with him on many issues”, it’s hard to take you too seriously anyway.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Inspite of Mr Buchanan’s abrupt methods and quirks, he is trying to be a shock jock.

    Obama can’t take people hostage

    unless you are willing “stockom’ed”.

    Thanks for the insights.

  • http://www.dwarfhamster.com dhamstermd

    Observing the methods being used by members of “my party” to distroy HC cause me to question my association with my party. They seem to have taken up the Rovian method quite well and possibly are taking his methods one step further.

  • Patrick Henry

    JAKE..(Mr. PEEPERS)

    Nope we aren’t FREEPERs..

    We just didn’t sit in Pastor Wrights church for 20 years so we Free Spirited democrates haven’t been quite that Programmed..

    Insanity..?? Jim Jones was Insane..That Happens to CULTISTS..

  • TeakWoodKite

    So Jake, a person is sincere with you and shows you respect. And you do what in return?

    This is it exactly why an open mind is required.

  • Dora Ratquila

    Eddie, it would be good to find out your reaction (and that of your townmates’) to Senator Obama’s reference to his grandmother in his faux Lincolnesque speech on March 18.

  • chris

    I’m sorry, gotta call you out on this post.
    You are really painting a wide brush. THE BLACKS, THE BLACKS. what the fuck…

    First off, I don’t believe in Race and suspect anyone who reinforces “race” in such solid division. Travel Africa and as you head north and south, east and west, you’ll see more distinctions than you can see in the American ancestors from the west of Africa. But on the continent itself the blend becomes clear.

    Second, black americans have a very different legacy than other non-white Europeans. The journey here and the treatment here was very different than any of the categories you mentioned. The Chinese were used to build railroads and were mistreated in California and along the west coast. Mexicans were driven south and have been treated as second class citizens. Jews, Italians, Irish, Polish, Czech, Germans, and others were also treated poorly in America. But none were treated as hatefully as black americans. So don’t blur the lines as if there was just one level of disenfranchisement. That’s bullshit.

    Now, as for the overall sentiments about race on this thread, I understand the desire to move on with a sense of equality and the call for people to end the “victim mindset” that has been criticized here. But one major hold back of this is that the racist attacks on black americans have not stopped. They’ve certainly eased, and thats the good news. The bad news is hate crimes are still quite prevalent and the reports of nooses, racist pranks involving hoods, nooses, black face, and more have not ended.

    You are also correct that the majority, women, are treated like minorities. And the same excuses for denying opportunities to women are used about denying opportunities to others.

    The shift hasn’t completed from our racist past. You may not consider yourself racist, but your words are very absolute “they”, “the blacks”, “those people”. You don’t sound like you’ve blended with anyone, but see solid divisions. I don’t fault you there, but it doesn’t sound like you’ve begun to see people simply as people but by their physical or cultural divisions.

    I don’t want to harbor on your views, i’ll simply state my own.

    I understand those who observe that in America, white males have the power over all. Then next would be ‘white women’. Then when left only in the construct of ‘black and white’, it has been observed by some of my peers, “better to give it to a black woman than a black man” has become a big part of emasculating black men. There is a legacy of emasculating and neutering black men because of sexually based insecurities in white men who wielded power through racism. You might disagree with this, but how often did white men hang white men and cut off their genitals? It happened to black men too many times to count.

    The fear of black men is no accident either. I study propaganda in many forms and one area I studied was about racist propaganda in America. The portrayal of “animal” images for black men was the most common form. “they’re going to steal our white women!” was the biggest worry in many minds.

    (note: I don’t swath broadly, all comments should be reflected towards those who either believe or engage in these trends or mindsets. I’m very aware that the exceptions are boundless)

    I gave up being ‘white’. Even here when I said I wasn’t ‘white’, I had a poster insist I was, or that I was ignorant. The labelling is so pathological it is considered unacceptable to destroy it. But that has been my whole life’s work, to end the categories, to end the divisions, to blend until we all see we are just billions of examples of god consciousness. my last division is between myself and women, and only because I still have not fully grasped the trauma in my sisters in the world. I know they have my complete solidarity, but I have much to learn and listen to.

    In the black communities that I’ve been fortunate to have extensive dialogue and listening opportunities, there is resentment to latinos historically because though my friends recognized the bigotry against latinos, “they weren’t brought here against their will”. When addressing the stereotype of ‘korean grocers’, the feelings were stark that racism against blacks was common when going into convenience stores. The fear of black men was more universal than a fear of latino men, of ‘chinese’ men as the above poster mentions.

    The realities are what they are.

    Has America made progress? You bet! I believe that my generation (40yr old), and the generation after me are going to see amazing shifts, but then I tune into YouTube channels and read some of the most vile crap that seems to come from 20yr old kids. The racist spew is as disgusting as it ever was.

    And while the Klan may have declined in numbers, I’ve covered their rallies as a journalist and they have not gone away, they have not reduced in numbers, they still turn out here in Texas when a black man is executed and Hal Turner and crowd, StormFront, and other hate organizations are still quite alive.

    There is much to be done. Do not let this opportunity to change it pass us by.

    In this campaign I have already seen the divisions in my friendships because of my support or my criticisms of the candidates. The only division that has happened though was along racial lines, so I have to ask, “who is dividing us, and why this division.”

    I blame David Axelrod, Donna Brazille, CNN, MSNBC, and to be honest, even FoxNews because Hannity does not fucking get it. He is a racist and cannot admit it. He is completely unwilling to listen to the other side of his conversations with Malik Shabazz, New Black Panther party. Instead of engaging Malik Shabazz on the contractions of the NBP with the original Bobby Seale Black Panthers, Hannity harps on his black ideology from a purely white perspective.

    Having dismissed that perspective from my plate, I can simply have a dialogue about it. I can understand the dialogue from a non-European defensive position. By giving up ‘white’ i have nothing to defend. I already know that a majority of my ancestors did not own slaves. But I also do know that 2 of my grandfathers (7 generations back) did. Their children did not, and before the Emancipation. Even if I found none, I would want to repair the fabric none the less.

    My father whipped me 2 times in my whole life with him (I lost him at 13). The first time was for calling a girl across the street that hateful word. I was 6. I don’t even know where I learned it because my mom and dad never used it at all. But I did use it. My dad said, “I’m doing this because you Must understand that this is more than unacceptable. I was raised in Arkansas and that sort of trashtalk was too common and it hurts us all. So while I regret doing this, I want you to remember this lesson.” He then he went to his room and cried. (the next time was right before he died when I got made at him and said, ‘i hate you’. he whipped me once for that…but worse…he died one month later of a heartattack, but I digress).

    So, i’ve been very fortunate to have been on this path for 40 years. I am more focused on my classism struggles of being technically poor in this society of “opportunity” and focused on how I was trained to be a sexist by the boys club around me. My successes were based in my being a man, being pretty articulate and organized.

    I have witnessed the oppression from a very unique view. I have been in white circles of discussion and witnessed the quiet and overt bigotry present when the conversation shifts around. And when in circles of male talk I have witnessed the sexism that would never be mentioned in mixed company.

    My greatest asset these days is my dear loving companion who never fails to remind me of the struggle of women in this world. She is overwhelmed by the attacks against Hillary Clinton by the media, the sexist jokes, the sexist assaults. She is teaching me volumes about what “victim” means because she would love to simply go out in the world and be. She would love to have a day off from being reminded she is a woman in a ‘man’s world’. She reminds me that there is much in me that must change to be the ideal partner who fully appreciates her struggle.

    And because of our discussions, I can tell you this…It is still more acceptable to be a sexist than a racist. You aren’t likely to lose your job for calling a woman a sexist term as you will be vilified for a racist term or theme. The TV shows us that anything about race is acidic upon contact, but to slam women is seen as acceptable.

    Folks, we have much to do, and its a damn shame that Obama’s supporters have taken to such divisions, and that we still have so much racism in our systems. Bigotry of one kind or another allows bigotry of all kinds. If you begin to break these down, one at a time, you’ll see they interrelate as an ignorance of people, of situations, and of themes.

    Can we end Racism? You decide for yourself, but I don’t believe we will in my time.
    Can we curb racism? yes.
    Can we expose racism? yes.
    Will we….
    i hope so

  • http://makethemaccountable.com Carolyn Kay

    Why Perfect Dates Make Lousy Partners
    The best “catches” in dating land may be the worst choices in the long-run, new research shows. Popular people who monitor themselves carefully in social situations and thereby appear to be the most socially appropriate are often highly sought after as romantic partners, a study finds, but these people show less satisfaction and commitment in relationships than socially-awkward people. By self-monitoring, people assess how their actions affect others and adjust to fit the appropriateness of the situation. They screen their words and behavior to suit the people around them.

    Carolyn Kay
    MakeThemAccountable.com

  • chris

    You’ve said lots about yourself including your projection upon others.
    1.) if you let the opinion of Clinton be affected by the writers of this blog, then you’ve dismissed your own objectivity.
    2.) you’ve started from some premise that “liberal” is what you’ll find here. (labeling for your convenient argument)
    3.) you claim this blog ‘attempts to divide’ instead of also considering this blog reflect the feelings of many who feel divided (they only say it every fucking day in every fucking way)
    4.) “the only way they can win is by tearing Obama down”…of course Obama supporters don’t do this with, “she’s a war hawk”, “yea, then you’re a republican”, “she’s a b—”, “politics as usual”, “you’re a racist”,”you’re old”,”she’s despirate”.
    5.) you see with a distortion that fails to see the description you provided is how many here view Obama supporters…do you acknowledge this, nah…doesn’t fit your argument.

    Bottom line, your patronizing tone towards the people here represents yourself in some morally superior position of moralistic ethical arbitrator, and yet you failed to acknowledge many here will and want to criticize a candidate they don’t support. They didn’t buy into his view, they don’t find him authentic, sincere, and more important to recognize, many here feel very attacked for questioning his experience or credentials and formerly used to be in other quarters where they used to feel safe (kos, moveon, huffington). Were their differences of views respected, nein!

    So before you get all high and mighty allow me to tell you like it is. IF YOU THINK CLINTON IS A TERRIBLE CANDIDATE, THEN DON’T FUCKING VOTE FOR HER. But if you think you shouldn’t vote for her because of posters at a blog, then you have a shallow fucking politic and more the reason you probably should vote for that puff of smoke idiot, Barack Obama.

    I am not voting for him in November, period. But it isn’t because of his supporters. I’m not going to hold his followers against him any more than I hold Christians against Jesus. But he has waffled, pandered, plagarized, exaggerated, and played a very consistent game of passive aggressive.

    He’s aloof. He isn’t as damn brilliant an orator when he doesn’t have it scripted. And with my background in theatre, I can tell you clearly, without the script most actors suck.

    If you cannot acknowledge when someone like Pat Buchanan is right, and when he should be acknowledged then you are no different than most republicans, just another partisan. I can acknowledge many of the fine views of the ‘conservatives’ around me. I don’t have to be a ‘liberal’. I’m neither right or left. That’s for the court players of the french kings.

    Good luck being a Democrat, sounds painful.

  • chris

    See, this is more of how you can’t handle criticism if it doesn’t just say, “OBAMA IS GOD!”

    This is no front for a Republican Noise machine. And you show that you know little about the Freepers. You ignore the consistent postings of the people here who want Universal health care, to get out of Iraq, to hold this administration accountable. There are critics of Obama, and that must, MUST, make them Republicans like Rove.

    Utter horseshit.

    I would be very impressed if you could actually read the criticisms and deal with them instead of “this blog has got to be a front”.

    Show me who here thinks Bush is better choice than Obama. You just play your strawman games and ignore the valid criticisms of Obama.

    You call me a Republican and I’ll show you real quickly what kind of goosestepper you are.

  • chris

    If Obama could sell his mother out to get ahead he’d do it. He sold out granny as a “typical white person”, sold his pastor out as his crazy “uncle”. When will he sell out Michelle?

  • chris

    Thats because you are a partisan, jake. You can’t tolerate views outside of your own, so you have to hack away. I can piece out where I agree with Buchanan and where he comes off as a 19th Century buffoon.

    And you show where you put your partisanship: “Denying your party an opportunity”

    I think you need to understand why the Democrats lose over and over again. They assume, ridiculously too, that if you aren’t a Republican then you are theirs. Well this doesn’t earn votes. This makes it a party of insiders, those who get it AKA ELITISTS.

    Your litmus testing is disgusting and a big part of the self-destructive nature of the Democrats. If you cannot talk to a conservative then you are simply narrow minded and a control freak. I have learned that talking to conservatives is the best way to get them on board with me about the environment, about women’s rights to choose, about ending the war, about a ton of things instead of only relying upon shallow ass Democrats who only speak to the choir.

    Its hard to take you serious because you haven’t talked about the issues at all, just making sure people are in line with you or they’re shit. Well, fuck that politic buddy. Its shallow and self-serving. God bless the critics for they will never lie to you. Be careful of your friends who more often won’t tell you the truth.

    Fuck illusions, to hell with platitudes.

    Your world must be very uncomfortable.

    And you call others a coward?

    Will you call for the impeachment and criminal trial of Nancy Pelosi for failing to uphold her oath and for complicity in the crimes of George Walker Bush and Richard Head Cheney?

    or will you just trust them to win in November…to unite the party behind the Obamination named Barack?

    The problem with you and those who talk like you, you are pedestrian in your politic. You’d rather be in the INCROWD. Stand up and speak your principles and show me i’m woefully wrong. But don’t play brownshirt games.

  • chris

    PATRICK, YOU WILL OBEY. YOU WILL OBEY. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. YOU HAVE BEEN PUT ON NOTICE.
    DRINK BOY, DRINK!

  • http://papertigertail.blogspot.com otherlisa

    Oh, I just saw a YouTube of Meeks. Yikes. Really ugly. The more I see this stuff about Obama, the more I think there is some seriously weird psychology going on with him. Not even so much that he would have these supporters and allies. IF you’re positioning yourself as an African American politician and an advocate for that community, well, it might not be the way I’d go about it, but it’s a path.

    But that he thinks he can have these allies, be that type of politician, present himself as something else entirely, and still somehow win the Presidency.

    My question here is, how do you adjust those statistics for demographics? Meaning, African Americans are only 11% of the population. It does make sense that there would be proportionally more crimes committed against whites because, well, there are more whites in the population to commit crimes against.

  • http://papertigertail.blogspot.com otherlisa

    Pretty much what Mimi said!

  • http://papertigertail.blogspot.com otherlisa

    OMG. This is absolutely over the top, Kourian, not to mention logically inconsistent. And, well, racist. “The blacks.” “These people.” Wow. I mean, read what you wrote.

  • http://papertigertail.blogspot.com otherlisa

    I hate to say it, but this is pretty much the conclusion I have come to, and that is why this guy makes me so very uncomfortable. I don’t think these are uncommon traits for politicians, mind you. But I think his particular case makes his candidacy a disaster for the country. We really need a Democrat in the White House in 2009, and if Obama is the nominee, that isn’t going to happen. The things that are torpedoing him now, Wright and the like, he could have minimized the damage if he’d recognized that it was a problem that needed to be dealt with. But he just seems to think that he can get away with all of these behaviors.

    Again, not an uncommon trait for politicians. But a disastrous one for our country at this point in our history.

  • http://papertigertail.blogspot.com otherlisa

    (I was agreeing with Vee’s sociopath post, by the way. Stoopid internets).

  • Hope

    Love it!

  • Hope

    Chris we need to put you on Olbermann’s show so you can give him hell Harry! :-)

    This is great stuff!

  • http://papertigertail.blogspot.com otherlisa

    I am a Yellow Dog Democrat. I never ever vote for Republicans. And I won’t vote for McCain if HRC is not the Democratic nominee. But Obama worries me like no other candidate in my memory. He’s unqualified, he’s unprepared and he doesn’t seem to understand himself that he isn’t “The One.” Plus, on the issues, he’s got a crappy environmental record, a social security privatizer in his inner circle, he’s against universal healthcare – he’s a neoliberal, economically. And we know how well that’s worked in recent years.

    I worry that if he gets the nomination, he’s going to go down in flames. And if by some miracle he does get in the White House, it’s going to be a disaster, and we will be looking at another 20 years of Republican domination.

  • Hope

    Carolyn have you met my ex husband? :)

  • chris

    Ya know, i’d love to take Olbermann on in a debate. I used to really dig Keith’s show, well up until the final sexist poke a celebrity moment, but he got off on his own voice.

    I have been lectured to by lefties for so long that I finally got in touch with my own politic. And because the mother of my child, who is also a dear lifelong friend, is pretty conservative and part of the Evangelical thinking, I learned respect for a view I used to be quite intolerant of. I have said so many things to her in the past that were really snotty and wrong. I didn’t take a moment to consider we actually had a ton in common.

    Love can bridge the divide. But the choir cannot sing the same notes and sound worth a damn, they’ll just be a drone.

    I always dig your posts and feelings Hope. Keep’em up!

  • Nellie

    Hillarysmygal,

    Do you have a link, other than You Tube, showing the connection between Obama and Meeks?

    Although not of color, I served as the Recreation Director on my Staes NAACP Group, worked with a wonderful man, whose daughter and I remain close, on getting MLK’s birthday passed as a state holiday and like many others who came of age during the 70′s, have had foreign students of all color living in my home until I bace disable.

    My biggest fear is that Obama’s arrogance, divisiveness, and association with Hate groups is going to cause serious blowback – undoing a lot of hard work and many gains made over the last 40+ years.

    Our awful news media, when blowback starts, will replay the old tapes of the horrible riots, and completely bypass the thousands and thousands of good things that occurred.

  • Nellie

    Beautifully, wonderfully stated.

    Which is why those with any discernment can see the danger Obama is bringing on us.

    “Typical White Woman” – what a pile of racist crap. Obama only sees the color of a persons skin, and not the attribute and content of character of the individual.

    I truly fear there is going to be a backlash, that will be horrific.

  • Nellie

    Agreed – I think the “H” in his initials “BHO” stands for HYPOCRITE.

  • kenoshaMarge

    Their blog their right to have it be what they want. Who the hell are you to tell others what to think and say? Don’t like it? Buh-by.

  • Nellie

    Taters,

    As always – great perception and viewpoint.

    As MLK pointed out – you, the individual, have the character, and the attributes, I love in a person, regardless of what color the exterior happens to be.

    YOU defintely the MAN – I hope I have the gender right.

  • Nellie

    Eilene,

    Yes early Americans, especially in the South did bring blacks against their will to this country.

    Realistically how many White Americans today, are the direct descendents of slave owners, or can trace their roots back to the Daughters of the American Revolution?

    I am third generation American. My Irish roots came from those escaping the serfdom of the Potatoe Famine in 1856. My Polish Roots came in the early 1900′s to escape the raids by Kossacks on their farm. Other’s from my Polish ancestory came to escape the Germans in the late 1930′s. Some of my female Polish ancestors were raped by Germans, and I have some German in me. Then my maternal grandmother married a guy with Irish and French Canadia Roots.

    Please tell me how the majority of Americans today, mostly from Immigrant families, had anything at all to do with the slavery of the 17th, 18th and 19th Centuries? How can you assign blanket guilt by skin color, when most of us have Ancestors who were in no way involved?

  • Nellie

    Sorry – meant to spell Cossacks – not Kossacks!

  • artmann11

    When Senator Obama’s preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father — Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer — denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

    Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father’s footsteps) rail against America’s sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the “murder of the unborn,” has become “Sodom” by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, “under the judgment of God.” They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama’s minister’s shouted “controversial” comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

    Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation’s sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father’s sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our “stand” by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

    Was any conservative political leader associated with Dad running for cover? Far from it. Dad was a frequent guest of the Kemps, had lunch with the Fords, stayed in the White House as their guest, he met with Reagan, helped Dr. C. Everett Koop become Surgeon General. (I went on the 700 Club several times to generate support for Koop).

    Dad became a hero to the evangelical community and a leading political instigator. When Dad died in 1984 everyone from Reagan to Kemp to Billy Graham lamented his passing publicly as the loss of a great American. Not one Republican leader was ever asked to denounce my dad or distanced himself from Dad’s statements.

    Take Dad’s words and put them in the mouth of Obama’s preacher (or in the mouth of any black American preacher) and people would be accusing that preacher of treason. Yet when we of the white Religious Right denounced America white conservative Americans and top political leaders, called our words “godly” and “prophetic” and a “call to repentance.”

    We Republican agitators of the mid 1970s to the late 1980s were genuinely anti-American in the same spirit that later Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (both followers of my father) were anti-American when they said God had removed his blessing from America on 9/11, because America accepted gays. Falwell and Robertson recanted but we never did.

    My dad’s books denouncing America and comparing the USA to Hitler are still best sellers in the “respectable” evangelical community and he’s still hailed as a prophet by many Republican leaders. When Mike Huckabee was recently asked by Katie Couric to name one book he’d take with him to a desert island, besides the Bible, he named Dad’s Whatever Happened to the Human Race? a book where Dad also compared America to Hitler’s Germany.

    The hypocrisy of the right denouncing Obama, because of his minister’s words, is staggering. They are the same people who argue for the right to “bear arms” as “insurance” to limit government power. They are the same people that (in the early 1980s roared and cheered when I called down damnation on America as “fallen away from God” at their national meetings where I was keynote speaker, including the annual meeting of the ultraconservative Southern Baptist convention, and the religious broadcasters that I addressed.

    Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the “scandal” of Obama’s preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama’s minister had a valid point. There is plenty to yell about these days.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obamas-minister-committe_b_91774.html

  • chris

    Nellie,
    I was amazed to find out I was descended from Henry Zorn a Revolutionary War blacksmith who was respected. Then I found he owned slaves in NY. I had done family histories back in many threads, but the farther you dig, especially on maternal sides, the more names you come up with. The fraction of my ancestors would become about .01 percent, but all this wouldn’t matter.

    While the remaining portion of my family were farmers and or eventually wager workers, the country was being built on slave labor which offset the labor that would have fallen on the backs of other workers.

    I can no longer assume “the majority of Americans today”…had nothing “to do with slavery”. Yes, there were few owners of slaves comparitively, but it isn’t simply about ownership.

    And while you might hold few ties, it would take many years of geneological study to conclude the “majority” of Americans did not descend from slave holders or from the benefits of slave labor.

    It is still besides to point to me. My brothers and sisters were slaves in America, and that is enough for me to take ‘the ability to respond’ aka Responsibility for making it right.

    I don’t have to have a guilt trip about it to act upon it.

  • BernieO

    I think you hit the nail on the head. On the face of it, it makes sense that Obama would join this church from a purely political standpoint, but when you factor in his long standing drive to be president it is actually another example of a boneheaded mistake on his part. He saw what was done to the Clintons, Gore, Kerry, Cleland, etc. by the right. What made him think HE would not be hammered for this, (as well as for his Rezko real estate deal) when he ran at a national level? For that matter why does he not stop Michelle from her ridiculous whining about how hard they have it with their $10,000 bill for their children’s activities? Did he miss the trashing Edwards got for his lavish home?
    Obama seems to think he invulnerable, which indicates a serious disconnect from reality.

  • BernieO

    No way. He is no sociopath, but he does have a strong tendency towards narcissism. Our current leader is a textbook case, by the way. He does show a lot of those kinds of traits. Narcissists are generally charming, but lack empathy. (Remember, Bush is considered a great, fun guy by a lot of people who know him.) They need – and get – the attention and approval of those around them. What makes them dangerous is that they believe rules do not apply to them because they are above the rest of us. That is, they are the poster children for those who think their feces are odorless, to put it politely. These people are well liked and charming until crossed. Then it becomes clear just how vicious they can be. (O.J. is another classic narcissist, not that all narcissists are murderers. Many resort to things like character assassination, ruining peoples careers, etc.)

    As for Obama, I am not sure if he is a full blown narcissist. I do not know that he is vicious to his enemies. Nor do I know if he is incapable of learning from defeat, which I believe is what he needs if he is ever to grow up and snap out of his overconfidence and realize his true potential. Of course that will only happen if he is just an overconfident talented guy who has rarely been challenged. If he is a true narcissist, he will never change. And if he becomes president god help us all. That is why I am not willing to take a chance on him at this time.

    By all accounts, Bill Clinton was an overconfident hotshot who learned a big lesson after being thrown out as governor after his first term. He learned his lesson and came back to have several succesful terms as governor.

  • getrealtoday

    To Hillarysmygirl

    I am in total agreement with you. My husband and I can barely watch MSNBC anymore because of the complete Obama bias, but we were wondering why Pat Buchanan was defending Hillary – Sure he does a good job, but why doesn’t MSNBC have any Hillary supporters on their shows. It’s always 2 Obama supporters (Rachel Maddow and that no-nose young woman) who are ardently defending Obama against Buchanan. It is a sad day when I have to turn to Fox News to hear something different than CNN & MSNBC have to offer. I must say that I do support HRC and my heart is breaking over the MSM’s lack of coverage of her speeches;but that video of Rev. Manning is despicable. Rev. Manning is preaching hate and bigotry against Obama, and I do not support that against anyone. I do not like Obama. I find him to be quite audacious in his quest for the presidency after only 2 years in the senate. I am tired of hearing about how he did not vote for the Iraq war – Of course his opinion and judgment didn’t have any consequence, he was not in the US Senate at the time. His link to Trinity Church may have prevented him for voting for the war even given the strongest of evidence. Just my humble thoughts. I am sick of Obama 24/7. I would like to hear a little thoughtful comment about my candidate – HRC.

  • Kathy

    I remember turning Falwell and Robertson off my television when they spewed their venom just as I would turn Wright off now.

    They are all dividers.

  • mary

    Latina dear,

    “Liberal activists” don’t win national elections. They win at their own little rabid conventions, but on a national level, they never do.

    Think back about presidential elections. The only Democrat who did win, twice, was Bill Clinton, who ran as a moderate.

    McGovern and Kerry got their butts kicked.

    If one only analyzes these things within one’s own little “liberal activist” pond, then one’s assumptions are completely skewed.

    I’m glad the “Take Back America” people had a pep rally for their own choir, but it has little to do with the bigger picture in a general election.

  • Philip Henika

    Folks -

    Obama started his speech with the idea that America is not a perfect union. Then he went on to give details – a substantive and transparent documentation of his relationship with Jeremiah Wright. I ask you – when you have heard any speech by President Bush that gave you as much; that gave you as much material for your own purposes such as fuel for own anger and frustration. My goodness – Bush is off the 9/11 hook and he is probably chuckling away while pulling weeds in Texas. Folks – 9/11 is the origin of your anger not racism. Also, you talk about a lack of experience re: Obama but aren’t we all in the same boat? Hasn’t globalization replaced the Cold War? Who is THE expert on globalization and global leadership? I will tell you – it is Al Qaeda.

  • jwrjr

    Because even Pat Buchanan gets it right … occasionally.

  • StatBabe

    Man, do I ever agree with you about Jena! I am still shocked and appalled that white teenagers could hang a noose on a tree like that without BOTH parents and school officials severely disciplining such an inflammatory act! It does not justify the beatings that ensued, but it certainly is a mitigating factor.

    Actually, I did disagree with another point that Buchanan makes–the disproportionate number of blacks in prison today. It is difficult to completely justify the disparity in rates of incarceration on the grounds that “blacks commit more crime”–particularly when crack cocaine, which tends to be abused more in the black community, carries substantially longer prison terms and higher rates of incarceration for first offenders than for the SAME amount of powder cocaine, which tends to be abused more in the white community. In addition, there are still too many instances of blacks being stopped for “driving while black” as occurred to a star football player in Austin, TX just a few years ago (he was purportedly stopped for failing to use his turn signal when changing lanes). I still recall the black porter at our community health club in Addison, TX telling me about getting stopped in Highland Park, TX 3-4 times just to check his registration and verification of insurance. (And believe it or not, he wasn’t even upset about if since he had all of his papers in order!) If this sort of thing happens routinely in other areas of the country, is it any wonder that there are so many people of color behind bars?

  • mary

    I’d like to see you post this, art, at Daily Kos or Talking Points Memo.

    Bashing, indeed.

    Take a stroll over to the 2 blogs above and see the most un-Democratic Clinton bashing you’ve ever seen.

  • mary

    When’s the last time you visited Daily Kos, Jake?

    THOSE are the uber-liberal FREEPERS, trashing anyone and anything that praises Hillary Clinton.

    Run on over to Daily Kos and check it out.

    You’ll be stunned at the Freeper-like hatred.

  • mary

    The hypocrisy of Obama immediately calling for Don Imus’s firing because his comments offended his daughters, juxtaposed to Obama NEVER considering Rev. Wright’s comments offending his daughters and his “but Wright does good things too,”

    speaks VOLUMES about Obama’s manipulations and political choices .

    Gimme a break, Art.

  • StatBabe

    Hope, while I agree with your sentiments about the inflammatory nature of much of Jeremiah Wright’s rhetoric, I did happen to have the opportunity to read Wright’s ENTIRE sermon following 9/11. I disagree with Wright about Hiroshima and Nagasaki because it is difficult to condemn Harry S. Truman’s authorization of the use of “Fat Man” and “Little Boy” after the atrocities committed by the Japanese–not only against our own soldiers but also against the Chinese in Manchuria. In addition, to this day, I am convinced that the use of nuclear weapons in WWII, while regrettable, was necessary to save lives on BOTH sides.

    Having said that, Wright does make a valid assertion about 9/11 being the result of “blow back” as a result of U.S. foreign policy through the years–such things as our role in the toppling of Mosagegh back in the 50′s (Mosadegh was the only democratically elected prime minister in the history of Iran), our role in propping up totalitarian dictators in the Western Hemisphere through the training of people like Pinochet, Noriega, and others at the School for the Americas in Fort Benning, GA, and of course, Vietnam. Not all of these policies by our government contributed to the hatred that spawned 9/11, but we all need to be able to look at these policies by our government in the light of day and recognize that questionable U.S. policies can have very negative consequences in the future.

    The problem that I have with Jeremiah Wright is the singularly racist tone of his sermons. I agree that powerful, wealthy people have certainly gotten ahead in the U.S. while many of the rest of us have seen our share of the “American pie” dwindle over time. But it is inaccurate and fairly racist to assert that blacks are the ONLY ones getting the short end of the stick–we are ALL getting screwed–at least, all of us who do not fit into the powerful, wealthy category.

    The thing that will continue to stick in my crawl is Wright’s assertion that the AIDS virus was created by white people to destroy the black race. I had a friend back in the 80′s claim that Ronald Reagan had ordered the CIA to create the AIDS virus (is this true, Larry?) in order to destroy homosexuals because they were getting too much power. I rolled my eyes when he tried to convince me of this. (I also told him that he was full of it!) I have the SAME reaction to Wright’s assertion about white people. I find myself looking for my tin-foil hat.

  • Gregoryp

    I agree with this. I hold no guilt at all. Not one of my ancestors were ever involved in any of this terrible history. And even if they were I still wouldn’t/couldn’t be blamed for the actions of people who are long dead. The only thing anyone can judge me by are my own actions.

  • simon

    Having said that, Wright does make a valid assertion about 9/11 being the result of “blow back” as a result of U.S. foreign policy through the years–such things as our role in the toppling of Mosagegh back in the 50’s (Mosadegh was the only democratically elected prime minister in the history of Iran

    )

    With this new information about the Illinois Combine, and Rezko, I’m more apt to look at who is making money off of terrorism, and 9.11.

    No doubt the legitimate anger is still there, but I still can’t justify Bush ignoring the PDB. Why do we not question that level of incompetency in a Presidential administration?

    Reading about Rezko from the trial tapes, and information provided by Stuart Levine, it’s apparent the Illinois Combine is cynically filthy, it’s really hard to wrap a head around behavior that juvenile, in old men.

  • Gregoryp

    Let me start by saying that I disagree with the concept of unequal justice and that like you I am from Northeast Texas though my town is considerably smaller. What is the major difference between those who use crack and those who use cocaine? Income.

    People who become addicted to crack don’t have the prerequisite income to supply their addiction so they must resort to other less savory means. In the early 90′s I was delivering pizza for a living and wound up getting robbed twice. Unfortunately, I also got stabbed during one of those robberies. Both times the people committing the crimes were high on drugs. All went to prison as they should. Since I lived in a lower socioeconomic neighborhood, women (crackheads) would often knock on my door wanting to barter for 10 bucks. Of course, I ran them off but the point is that crack was simply devestating. It destroyed entire neighborhoods, entire lives.

  • simon

    Our collective history as Americans makes us responsible for the legacy of slavery.

    Are you an American, did you choose to adopt this country as your home, your identity being that of an American?

    Then you’re part of the American collective.

    We are responsible, we owe the black community an apology.

    I know that is not a popular position.

  • simon

    They’re going for broke. The blacks. They always have

    This is racist.

    No thanks.

  • tinat

    Wow, is this really a site for Democrats?
    The venom against a nominee with almost the exact same views as the other nominee is down right scary.

    If you spent one half the time it’s taking you to bash a Democratic nominee against the repub nominee McCain maybe he wouldn’t be ahead or both Clinton and Obama :O
    He is way scarier then Obama can ever hope to be!

  • Gregoryp

    Roasaleen, you know why people like Wright and David Duke exist? Because their is a market for what they sell. They make a tremendous amount of money off of keeping us divided. People buy into the hate rhetoric because it allows them to forgo personal responsibility for their own situation. It is much easier to hate another who is prospering than to look at ourselves with a critical eye and understand that we are a product of our choices both good and bad.

  • simon

    Obama is psychologically much like a sociopath

    .

    I see him as completely dissociated, starting with the trauma of his father, mother and childhood.

    But sociopath makes him out to be such a threat, and he’s not.

    He’s simply not that bright.

  • Nellie

    Chris,

    I do hear you. Actually on my fathers side I went back to Ireland and met an “aunt”. My fathers people were from Selego County to the far West. The priest at the church where I was searching called her, as Geneology was a big deal in Ireland during the mid – 80′s.

    My Aunt took me all the way back to the old chieftans. She even drove me to Cork County to check out some maternal ancestory – she had some trepedation as she was worried that they might not be “good Catholics”. And a few times we went into Dublin. She had me stay with her and my “uncle” for five weeks. She was very good at doing geneology.

    I also got to see the small family farm and old manse the family had before the Brits “Stole” it and forced them to be serfs. No hannky panky – I checked with my aunt – all good Catholic Girls – although the men had a few side trips. So I KNOW that stubborn old Celtic Warriors is all there is for me there.

    The Polish side is murky. The farm they had was only a few kilometers from the Russian border. So there is possibly some Cossack blood, my great grandmother chose to ignore. As to birthdates and records – The then communist Government kept sending letters essentially asking how old did I want the relatives to be or which middle name would I like to give them. Those types of records were kept in churches, which were desroyed during two wars. Of course, being cash strapped the Polish Govt charged for these services. By the time I got back to the early 1800′s I realized it was fiction and stopped.

    As for the German rapes my grandmother told me about, they did not keep records of such things.

    From all facts the Irish were warriors, then farmers, then serfs. The Polish side had many more characters, but is a dead end. Given the very rural location of the Polish property, other than some “unfortuante” meetings with Cossacks, it appears they were farmers back to the middle ages.

    All my life, since I was 18, I HAVE worked for equality and change. What infuriates me, is that Barack is playing the “guilt” card. I refuse to buy into that. I have done everything I could, and more than most. I know slaves were treated badly.

    But I think Mimi and Hillarysmygal is right. At some point people have to take responsibility for their own lives. They cannot mourn their ancestors anymore than I can mourn mine. It was what it was. My 5 weeks in Ireland were very enlightening and I am amazed at how reslient people can be under some extremely harsh conditions.

    My biggest fear is that the backlash is going to slam some doors that my 70′s generation and onward, worked so hard to get opened.

    T

  • simon

    OT, but it probably all realates to Obama in the end…

    You know, for many reasons, private armies are bad business.

    Especially when they end up pawns, in ways they can’t even begin to imagine. The last thing anyone needs is Blackwater acting as an agent of China, say, without understanding how, and why.

    But Tibet, that to me is sad, it seems like China views it as a proxy Taiwan.

    And Feinstein, uh.

    Speaking of the combine…

  • Gregoryp

    That is just about the first thing that I disagree with you on. Most of my folks came from Ireland and were poor sharecroppers while the rest were Choctaw. Some were criminals through the years. No one in my family has ever been even moderately wealthy and they never owned slaves. In many respects they were just as bad off as slaves and their social status was just as tad higher. They had it difficult and in that respect nothing has changed. Personally, I don’t feel that I owe any AA an apology for slavery. My “white” folks didn’t come over until the mid 1800′s and were relegated to white trash status. Also, what about all those indentured servants that came over. Do we owe them an apology as well or do they owe AA’s an apology?

  • simon

    My list now includes names like Sean Hannity, Michael Regean, Charles Krauthammer, Karl Rove, Neut Gingrich, Ken Blackwell and even accassionl Rush Limbaugh. I

    I’d have to say they’re garbage, responsible for much of the hate directed toward others with a differing POV.

    Remember the term feminazi?

    Where did that come from?

    THAT, to me, is just as vile as Wright’s rants.

    Remember who gave rise to divide and conquer.

  • DJ

    Thanks for quoting the appropriate paragraph from Buchanan.
    I tend to agree with him about the difficulties ahead for the new president, except I’d rather see Clinton mess up, as she surely will.

    Funny thing is that Buchanan, who was always pushing for a Clinton nomination seeing her as easier to defeat, now seems to think that Obama will win not only the nomination, but the election as well.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Mayflower girls?

  • TeakWoodKite

    I am seeing this as well. Disturbing.

    In this campaign I have already seen the divisions in my friendships because of my support or my criticisms of the candidates. The only division that has happened though was along racial lines, so I have to ask, “who is dividing us, and why this division.”

    Thanks For the post.

  • mimi

    I have finally come to terms with the fact that I AM NO LONGER A DEMOCRAT!

    I will be registering as an Independent. The behavior of the DNC, party leaders like Dean, Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi along with the gang rape of HRC by the MSM has made me face that I have to end my association with the Party. Add to that my intense dislike of Obama, his supporters and the left-wing liberal nut jobs who just don’t get that the majority of Americans don’t hold their views.

    The jury’s out regarding who I will vote for if HRC is not the nominee. Obama’s VP choice will be a decisive factor for me, but if I vote for him, it will be as an Independent. If I vote for Nader, I will keep my registration as DEM and the day after the election I will change to IND. Same if if I vote for McCain.

    Then I’m going to write letters to the DNC and all the Dem players who pissed me off about why I left the Party. Never again will I let the Democratic Party treat me this way.

  • Taters

    Powerful Chris.

  • DJ

    Thank you for chiding others about not reaching out,but being partisan and unable to communicate with others, such as a conservative.

    That’s why I like Obama because he believes in reaching out and communicating, instead of promising everyone to go on with the Karl Rove dogma to divide and conquer. It may work for the Bushes, but it didn’t seem to work for the Clintons, being constantly under attack.

    Interestingly, Obama’s approach is already approved by the US Military who now increasingly use the method of engaging the people they used to shoot before, and they claim it is working.

  • StatBabe

    I have only a passing knowledge about the relationship between Obama and Rezko. Although I find this disturbing, it is hard for me to get my britches in a bunch over it since the Clintons certainly have some questionable dealings (e.g., the Mark Rich pardon and money obtained from his ex-wife over the years, and all that ‘buddy-buddy’ business with George H. W. Bush–how much money is Bill Clinton getting out of Carlyle? And what about Robert Baer’s assertion about then-President Bill Clinton doing favors for “big oil”–see Baer’s book See No Evil–Larry may have a more informed take on it, but it struck me as a little shady).

    I am far more concerned about the current incompetency in the White House and not repeating that. I keep reading and hearing different people say how “bright” Obama is, and this may be quite true. But I remember the first two years of Bill Clinton’s administration–so many miscues early on that led to the Democrats losing BOTH houses of Congress in 1994. Bill Clinton is a truly brilliant guy (something that I know from my own personal knowledge of the man when I lived in Arkansas) and was arguably a “quick study” since Clinton managed to eventually grow into the job. Even if Obama is every bit as smart as Bill Clinton (which is questionable, given the miscues with Wright and Rezko), his dearth of experience is troubling. Clinton had been a governor for 10 years (and actually was governor before that having lost a term to Frank White) so that he had a great deal of administrative experience, and yet, I would not want the Bill Clinton that moved into the White House in 1993 taking over NOW–we have too many problems confronting this country for “on-the-job” training. If the ONLY credential that Hillary Clinton possessed was the fact that she was a witness to Bill Clinton’s presidency, that is still a wealth of experience compared to Obama.

    Incidentally, I was a bit offended by Zbig Brzezinski’s comparison of Hillary Clinton to Mamie Eisenhower. Hillary Clinton is a Yale-trained attorney who was an active participant in her husband’s administration as governor of Arkansas whereas Mamie Eisenhower was a traditional First Lady who stayed in the background. A far better comparison would be Eleanor Roosevelt, who, if she were alive today, might be a contender for the presidency. In addition, I suspect that Hillary Clinton would have been a far more active participant in Bill Clinton’s presidential administration if the “good ol’ boys” in Congress had not actively worked to sabotage her efforts with health care–”good ol’ boys” on BOTH sides of the aisle, I might add!

  • StatBabe

    I had problems with the same comments made by Pat Buchanan. However, there has GOT to be a point where BOTH whites and blacks look beyond race and the historical evil that brought blacks to this country and judge each other without regard to race.

    I am the first to applaud forced desegregation in the 60′s and 70′s as well as affirmative action during this same time period. But like many conservatives (and I do not consider myself to be a conservative–just a sensible moderate), I tend to believe that we have reached a point in this country where blacks and whites should be judged by the same criteria, all other things being equal, in most circumstance. I have a good bit of empathy for educational programs that seek to enroll a diverse class of students, which has certainly led to some flexibility in the objective criteria for admission, such as GPA, standardized test scores, etc. But at some point we all need to recognize that it is in NO ONE’S best interest to significantly lower objective, academic standards in order to admit blacks, Hispanics, women, or any other demographic group. The problem with lowering these objective standards for admission to academic programs is that it cheapens the value of the degrees obtained by other women and minorities who would have gained admission WITHOUT relaxation of academic standards.

  • StatBabe

    I totally disagree with you about blacks being a monolithic group. First, I have quite a few black friends, and I know just as many who support Hillary Clinton as those who support Barack Obama. Perhaps this “group mentality” makes a little sense in Southern states with a large proportion of lower class, less educated blacks (not unlike the support for Hillary Clinton from “women with needs”), but the same cannot be said of the Northeast where I currently reside. I have one black girlfirend who told me that support in her family is as follows: she and her younger daughter support Obama, her husband supports Clinton, and her older daugher supports McCain! And mind you, my girlfriend’s family are ALL black!

  • StatBabe

    All I can say is that those “liberal activists” are a bunch of knuckleheads. If you read the proposals put forward by Hillary Clinton and those put forward by Barack Obama, Clinton’s proposals are far more liberal! In particular, Clinton’s health care proposal is a far more sweeping, liberal proposal than Obama’s proposal, which seems to have only been put out in response to the pressure exerted by the Edwards campaign in the early days of the campaign, which had a health care proposal FIRST that Hillary Clinton has virtually mirrored.

    As one who has wanted health care reform since it was a major issue in 1992, I am VERY disgusted with Obama’s rhetoric on this one issue since he has bashed mandates, which is a necessary component of ANY universal health care plan. In addition, Obama put forth his own version of the “Harry and Louise” ads so even if Obama actually wanted to achieve major health care reform, he just undermined ANY eventual effort, if he manages to reach the White House.

    BTW, it’s interesting that all these “liberal activists” are backing Obama when Barney Frank, one of the most liberal members of Congress, is one of Hillary Clinton’s most avid supporters and one of her chief economic advisors.

  • StatBabe

    Having seen people negatively affected by BOTH crack cocaine and powder cocaine, I honestly cannot see ANY justification for the disparity in our judicial system. If what you say is true about crack cocaine spawning more crime (and I do not agree with this–check out George Jung’s true story with trafficking in powder cocaine in the movie Blow–plenty of violence there), then those committing those crimes (and NOT simple possession of crack cocaine) would be in prison for those crimes! For the SAME quantity of crack cocaine, a person will serve 5 ADDITIONAL YEARS in prison than someone with powder cocaine–and this is the sentence for possession alone!

  • Kathleen

    “God damn America for killing innocent people” Jesus Mary and Joseph Reverend Wright is right!

    Should he be preaching politics in church? No

    Should he be telling people how to vote? No

    Should he take it up to another level of discourse? Talk about forgiveness! Talk about how two wrongs do not make a right! Yes!

    Talk about how the very serious wrong doings of U.S. foreign policy outside of church! Hell Yes!

    Talk about U.S. sponsorship of “state terrorism against the Palestinians” by our unquestioning support of Israel no matter what they do! Hell yes!

    Does this mean that OBama supports everything that Reverend Wright says! Hell No!

  • Mechan

    what a great post…and eloquently stated…

  • Kathleen

    “God damn America for killing innocent people” Sounds about right.

    The Clinton campaign should get off this before it does her in for good.

  • Kathleen

    Agree. The Democrats could easily lose in 2008..with this type of “hate” speech towards Obama.

  • Hope

    Chris:
    You are a wonderful writer! You have such great chutzpah!

    I also used to love Olbermann, especially his special comments during the Valerie Plame days. And his puppet theatres were a riot, but now he has become overwrought to the point of shrill and looks nothing more than a caricature. I admit he’s very bright but he has no balance. Eventually I would suspect that his big mouth will do him in. I guess he also assumes it is okay to insult old-time feminists – the over 50 crowd as yours truly.

    Thanks Chris!

  • http://makethemaccountable.com Carolyn Kay

    I believe I’ve met EVERYBODY’s ex-husband.

    Carolyn Kay
    MakeThemAccountable.com

  • http://makethemaccountable.com Carolyn Kay

    And John Kerry said it, too, just this week.

    Carolyn Kay
    MakeThemAccountable.com

  • Kathleen

    I have been agreeing with Pat Buchanan a great deal the last five years. I knew then that the pendulum had swung so far right (wrong) when Pat Buchanan started sounding like he was in the middle. Times have changed.

  • Hope

    Kathleen:

    Martin Luther King never spouted the kind of anger and hatred that Rev Wright has spewed. King inspired people through loftier sentiments and bestowed upon his listeners/followers a sense of spiritual eutopia that propelled people into an unbirthed realm of hope and justice. When he marched, he marched with all brethren and he embraced his enemies with love and understanding. His greatness was astounding and has left a vacuum that no other African American, including Obama, has yet to satisfyingly fill.

    Martin Luther King’s murder has always left a hole in my heart, for I grew up loving him and when he died a part of my unjaded eutopia perished with him. In comparison Obama seems like a hollow musical instrument playing to the passing winds of a society that has given credence to his discordant melody that grows more cacophonous by the passing minutes and hours.

    Martin Luther King would have never descended into such a fury-filled pit of perturbation and murderous outrage as Rev Wrong has allowed himself to fall into so willingly. Quite unlike Obama exposing his own grandmother to possible ridicule, he would have privately called Rev Wrong and Obama aside and graciously corrected them, reminding them that Love, Compassion and Forgiveness are the true Trinity that must be expressed through all human interaction regardless of one’s race, color, creed, sex, political party, poor, wealthy and in between. That was his message and he never faltered despite the great temptation that must have continuously attempted to ruin his inner vision and voice.

    Martin Luther King passed this life’s test without flying his color! He was a voice of thunderous equality and merciful wonderment. How I wish the young people of today could have been there, firsthand to witness his grace, intellect and leadership. Then they would understand what a leader should truly embody.

  • chris

    Actually you consider the words of a kind church going lady I spoke to on Wednesday.

    She really didn’t like the comment, but said she understood his sentiment. I asked if she knew when he made this comment, she said no. “The Sunday after 9/11″

    “oh lord, no I didn’t know that. That was very insensitive. I’m ashamed.”

    Soundbytes work two ways here. First, much of what he said has a context that he may use to justify himself, but then there is the rest of the world.

    When I told her about the claims that Hillary hasn’t been called the vicious racist term, that didn’t matter to her because as a black woman she’d been called both. She said neither was acceptable and Hillary didn’t have to be called both to experience pain.

    So, Kathleen, Obama’s camp might want to get off this before it does him in for good.

    When I asked her if she’d ever experienced this sort of rhetoric in her church, she said, “oh good heavens no. We’re too busy singing our songs and stompin our feet.”

    now granted, she’s almost 80 now, but she didn’t have any room for this and found it ‘irresponsible’.

    what say you?

    Sounds about right to you to God Damn America?
    Not sure you are the sweeping endorsement for Obama here. How about, God Damn the War Jackles who are running America….or do you carpet bomb with rhetoric?

  • chris

    So he picks and pokes what suits him…good parish.
    Typical White Person, Just Words.

  • chris

    Bravo!

    Welcome to your Liberation (the real kind, not Bush Kind, sorry)

    You mirror much of how I feel about the Democratic Party.

  • chris

    ONESIDED
    What about the “hate” speech towards Clinton, you hoblegged monopod monocle monolobe!

  • chris

    Yes, the Left does not have the absolute domain of telling the truth, in fact it often lies to itself and others.

  • chris

    ” I disagree with Wright about Hiroshima and Nagasaki because it is difficult to condemn Harry S. Truman’s authorization of the use of “Fat Man” and “Little Boy” after the atrocities committed by the Japanese–not only against our own soldiers but also against the Chinese in Manchuria.”

    I have no difficulty condeming Harry Truman for unleashing hell of that magnitude for the remaining decades of the “cold war”. The Japanese were already defeated. The sweep of Russians in to Manchuria, the collapse of the inner circle was already happening in Japan. The Doves were winning over the hawks and Truman and crew knew it.

  • chris

    I appreciate you sharing this, quite amazing the quilt of our humanity.

    My point is that by constantly avoiding meaningful responsibility in our racial divide it leaves an impression of disconnect that is out of step with some of our finest abilities.

    FOR INSTANCE:
    The other night when a TV show was on and we watched a doctor show some amazing insensitivity to a woman who was trying to get healthy, my girl went OFF. It really hit a nerve. And as I tried to explain that I didn’t see him do anything, but that it was a random button he didn’t mean to hit, I got..

    “NO NO NO..HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN. A woman’s body is precious and she’s crying for help! He should know…Men don’t get this, men don’t care”

    And as I sought to comfort her, she wouldn’t have it. She basically treated me like a proxy. So…I stepped back. I gave space. I listened, and after a much shorter time than I expected…she calmed down and saw that she had a strong ally here.

    “Do I do that? or Did I Do That?”
    “no…but…it hurts”

    I might as well had been the guy who did it, and the Doc might as well had been every man who ever insulted her. The reaction on my part was my most important RESPONSIBILITY or (The ABILITY TO RESPOND).

    SO same thing in my relations in the Black Community or other. I don’t have to have been the one who enslaved, the child of the slave master, or the one who benefited. But if I just say, “well I didn’t Do It!”, then I haven’t demonstrated much in the way of compassion for real suffering.

    CODEPENDENCY
    I don’t want to enable victimization. But I do want to develop good listening for those who feel as if they are victims. Only then can I be of use. If I start from the premise that I have no “responsibility” in the matter, then thats the message my audience (one or many) will receive. NOT MY PROBLEM

    And this is the way Hannity and others act when on this message, NOT MY PROBLEM. NOT MY ISSUE.

    whatcha think?

  • StatBabe

    Hope, you are SO right about Dr. King! I still remember when King was assassinated because my father had an office down on Front Street in Memphis. And I remember his assassination because I was a freshman in high school who was just starting to think independently about civil rights and politics.

    Of course, what still hurts me is that both Dr. King and Bobby Kennedy got killed that SAME YEAR! In so many ways, it was an even WORSE year than 1963 when JFK perished. How could two such shining lights and inspirations to people of my generation be killed like that?

    The thing about Dr. King is that his words moved BOTH blacks and whites, which is why I still get teary-eyed when I watch videos of whites walking side-by-side with blacks or hear “I have a dream” Someone like Jeremiah Wright may be able to regularly excite his black congregation, but he would have a harder time accomplishing what Dr. King did–at least, not without modifying his overtly racist rhetoric quite a bit.

  • chris

    I don’t disagree with the notion that you have no guilt. I have no guilt. But I follow the teachings of my mentors to help when and where I can.

    I’m primarily a Buddhist by training and trend, but believe very much in the passage of Matthew regarding what I should do for the least of these.

    I don’t need to simply be judged by my actions, but by my inactions. There are times when I can do, and should do, NOTHING. But that is more rare than my ability to, and moral requirement to do, SOMETHING, if not EVERYTHING, I can do to heal my community, great and small.

  • chris

    Yes, when I asked on friend, who sent a real strong anti-Clinton propaganda piece, I was so shocked at its overtly blaming and associating of deep racial wounds with Hillary Clinton, do you really believe she is a racist or impartial to racism, I got back a lot of pain from her.

    And the last comment floored me.
    “long as I say “nice things” you are Ok but as soon as I don’t agree with you”

    This was so not the point of my questions. I just noted that I was starting to get lots of ProObama messages sent to me, including the Olbermann Special Comment tearing into Clinton, and asked if we could respect our differences.

    I didn’t fire away at her over the emails, just asked a question: “Do you really believe Clinton is a racist or passive about racism?”

    I asked because she has been like a mentor to me, and if she sees something, I trust her to point it out. But this felt like skeetshooting.

    So I’ll give it a rest right now, and NO I don’t only love her when she says ‘nice things’. I just don’t have a custom of beating up my friends or exposing them without warning to cartoons of Ferraro with the feet of a Lynched man and Ferraro dismissively saying “lucky”. I don’t send my toughest criticisms to my friends who are Obama supporters. I engage them with questions, sure, but sometimes we just put it behind us and have a beer none the less.

    This chasm is being brought wider by Axelrod and other advisors who are stoking the fires to make Clinton into the evil one and Obama into the Messiah to deliver us from our racist past. Well it ain’t going to do anything but create more division.

  • chris

    Exactly!
    Thats why I resent the people who say, “uncle tom”, “sell out” or lefties who say, “well he sold out his own people” just because someone is conservative or disagrees with affirmative action. There is too much room for thought to have so much effort to simply hold one idea.

  • chris

    Yeah, imagine if the pastor could simply change the world by converting the choir over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

  • John

    Liberal Activists are good at one thing: clucking their tongues in little groups about how morally superior and politically pure they are compared to everyone else. These are the kind of people who will volunteer for any charity walk that involves getting a t-shirt so they can wear the t-shirt everywhere and show people how enlightened they are. They are the kind of people who are ALMOST always doing things- almost getting arrested defending a guy being harrassed by the cops, almost going to that protest downtown but gosh it was cold that day, almost writing a letter to the editor of the local paper, almost donating to the local food bank. They are the kind of people who proudly vote Green and are even more proud that their candidates have never, ever won an election. Because Winning is a sign of Compromise and is therefore Bad.

    I suspect that Liberal Activists spend a good deal of their time nowadays looking askance at a lot of Obama supporters, seeing them as bandwagon-jumpers who, unlike the Liberal Activists, weren’t for Barack Before Iowa. I expect to see For Barack Before Iowa t-shirts being worn around my neighborhood ( I live in a very, very pretentious suburb of DC ) in the near future.

    I frankly couldn’t care less who the self-described Liberal Activists support. Who have these people ever got elected? Didn’t they support Bill Bradley and Howard Dean?

  • John

    Thank you. I was getting really bored of posting that. And I encourage people like Art to call Air America and Jones Radio Network and MSNBC and call out their hosts for the non-stop Hillary bashing.

    Of course, that’s “different.”

  • Mr.Murder

    Kos actually considered himself conservative for some time.

  • Mr.Murder

    Mother died of cancer, makes a nuclear polluter of his state the Obama campaign director.

  • Hope

    Oh what a scream! LOL

  • Hope

    Stat
    Yes it was quite a time then that is for certain. I think we were a little less jaded. We didn’t have as much information flooding in on a minute-by-minute basis as we do now. We didn’t have vast numbers of ADHD as we do today speaking of which! :-)

  • Kathleen

    God damn America for killing innocent people”. The timing of Reverend Wright’s words, the place he chose to let loose (in church) highly questionable.

    Americans do not want to face or even consider that parts of Reverends Wrights words are spot on. U.S foreign policy, intervention and the support of repressive governments has directly effected and been responsible for millions of deaths, the overthrow of democratically elected governments (Iran). Most Americans do not want to face this or even consider this thought let alone accept any responsibility for our crimes.

    Should Reverend Wright take it up a notch (more death and destruction does not resolve these issues).

  • Kathleen

    Oy Vey. This is getting ridiculous

  • Kathleen

    HIroshima and Nagasaki were disproportionate responses to Pearl Harbor. The whole world witnessed how ruthless the U.S. can be.

  • Andy

    Kathleen, Hiroshima and Nagasaki IS A COMPLEX issue. It is not as simple as you put it. And you are forgetting the Holocaust : 6 million Jewish people in addition to gypsies and many many others.

    But maybe this is irrelevant for you?

  • Andy

    The Clinton camp? Get real Kathleen: this is all Obama’s doing and Obama’s problem: Jeremiah Wright is his problem. This about Obama’s choice. His and only his.

  • Kathleen

    All genocides are relevant to me.
    1900-2000: A century of genocides
    http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

    What did the Japanese have to do with the Holocaust?

  • Andy

    We are not talking about “all genocides”;
    don’t hide in a broader subject here.

    I asked you specifically about the Holocaut. We are talking WWII here.

    What did the Japanese have to do with the Holocaust?

    Are you kidding ? Japan was a Germany ally and hardly a neutral observer.

  • Kathleen

    When you start talking about Japan’s support for Germany and then apply those standards to the U.S.’s involvement “hardly a neutral observer” in wars around the world we (both of us) have opened up a much broader subject.

    The U.S.’s response to Pearl Harbor (direct attack on the U.S. by Japan) was disproportionate and brutal.

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