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The So Called “Hillary Lies About Bosnia”

Barack and company are increasingly desperate.  For a group of folks who insist the campaign is over, Hillary is toast, etc., etc., they are certainly straining at gnats.  The latest is their hyperventilation over the so-called “lie” of Hillary about her trip to Bosnia.  Here’s the clip:

YouTube Preview Image

What Hillary said about the plane is exactly right.  Cork screw take off and landings were instituted after a buddy of mine–a now retired U.S. Army Colonel–was shot while sitting on a plane flying out of Sarajevo back in 1993.  Someone on the ground sprayed the plane with an AK-47 and Mac (my friend’s name) came close to bleeding out.  He spent almost a year in rehab.  Doctors saved his leg but he was essentially crippled because of that gunshot.

So Hillary is not exaggerating about the danger back then and the plane ride in.  It was not as dangerous as Iraq perhaps, but it was still risky.

I do not have access to her full itinerary back then.  It is possible she is recalling a different landing that was not filmed.  And it also is possible she is confusing one incident with another.  But if the big difference is whether she shook hands after getting off the plane or dashed to the car ducking gunfire, well, at least she was visiting Europe in an official capacity.  She was doing more 16 years ago then Obama has accomplished since joining the Senate.  Hell, the dude’s passport is still stamp free of European ports of entry.

[See No Quarter's trove of stories on Obama's failure to convene a single significant hearing of his European Affairs subcommittee (which covers NATO), or to visit any European countries. See in particular Joseph Wilson's "Obama’s Hollow “Judgment” and Empty Record" and "Obama’s Shallow Credentials on National Security Are Dangerous for the Country."]

So the Obama crowd wants to insist that questions about her memory of an event that happened fourteen years ago is an indictment of her truthfulness or competence?  Well, if that is the dis qualifier for becoming President then Barack is really in trouble.  He cannot remember anything that he did for the last 17 years if it involves his “uncle,” Jeremiah Wright.  He still cannot remember Wright ever saying something racist or ill-considered.  At least Hillary’s account of the plane ride is right.

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  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVb8DHTX6xI Majori

    excellent! i’ve made my own blog

  • Tony

    It was a carefully prepared speech. She knew exactly what she was saying and she knew she was lying; she didn’t care.

    • Mel

      Yup, she learned that tactic from the Jr Senator from Illinois to say whatever, after NAFTA, REZKO, WRIGHT, POWERS, and so many others, lost track of them all!

      Brought to you by the Obama campaign on the Environment, Recycling matters, even words!

      Sub-Titles sponsored by Your Corner Book Store, this months promotion, “Dreams of my Father” and “The Audacity of Hope”! All profits go to the Obama Trust fund to promote Minority housing in Chicago (Obama’s own)!

      • Kevin

        Okay, now I know you can’t be taken seriously… you want to bring up NAFTA as a way to promote Hillary????? ROFLMAO to the point where I’ve soiled myself – oh dear.

        • Mel

          Ahh you missed over the other ones, such a typical Obama paid blogger, you are showing your true colors!

          Brought to you by the Obama on the Environment, Recycling matters, especially words!

          Sub-Titles for the hearing impaired sponsored by Your Corner Book Store, this months promotion, “Dreams of my Father” and “The Audacity of Hope”! Exurbs found in all my Major Speeches! All profits go to the Obama Trust fund to promote Minority housing in Chicago (Obama’s own)!

  • snowbird42

    Why did Hillary lie about Bosnia? Not mis-speak but lie, several times.

  • chris

    On thing I love about all the hate hillary and NQwritercommenters posters, they’d make terrible analysts. They have a conclusion, a counter conclusion, but provide no substantial evidence. If, lets say, someone came and gave them ‘evidence’ of WMD in Iraq, you’d hear them screaming for war on little info. The level of reasoning that produced a “smoking gun” here was no different that that fucking traitor Vice President Richard Head Cheney.

    They Love Larry Johnson…(swooon) when he validates their hatred of George W Bush and Richard Head Cheney, but when he applys the same experience to other matters that violate their thinking, he’s a pile o shit. How much better reasoning can you get?

    Now, lest I commit a Appeal To LJ fallacy, I know Larry can be wrong. Like last week when he said on CNN that it was definately a Republican of some sort behind this, little did he know it was also an Obama advisor. But then again he scooped it out on little info than what hit the headline, so I’ll give him an A+ for nailing the Republican connection but deny the bonus point for not going a step further on moment notice to nail Obama’s camp as being involved. (note: the bonus of it being Obama’s camp is bonus enough for all of us)

    But why talk about Obama’s advisor being involved in a passport snoop in the last 3 months when we can go back in our WayBack Machine to 1996 and dig up CBS footage. 30sec to 1min will do.

    • Kevin

      So tell me Chris, since you have more information than the rest of us, the specifics behind “Obama’s advisor being involved in a passport snoop…”? Not a company they’re affiliated with, but that individual… g’head, we’ll wait.

      And for the record, it was Hillary who brought up the ’96 incident. No one went “dredging around”. Give the mischaracterizations a rest… other Hillary supporters don’t need the push – and to anyone not inclined to just automatically concur w/ your point of view, it’s funny.

      • Mel

        Get your facts straight, it was Obama’s campaign who brought up the Bosnia thing!

        Brought to you by the Obama campaign on the Environment, Recycling matters, even words!

        Sub-Titles sponsored by Your Corner Book Store, this months promotion, “Dreams of my Father” and “The Audacity of Hope”! All profits go to the Obama Trust fund to promote Minority housing in Chicago (Obama’s own)!

        • Kevin

          wrong still. who made the speech before not one, but two audiences extolling the trouble she’d been through? who was the one who said she’d been on trips that were too dangerous for the president?

          come on… if you want to debate/discuss the issues fine, but don’t just make up crap because your previous position was (again) indefensible/insupportable.

          remember? we’re supposed to be better than the GOP, can we not default to their practices?

          of course, I often wonder how many “supporters” of either dem candidate are actually being paid by the GOP to stir up internal dissent in the democratic party. Easy enough to do apparantly.

          So – what’s your story?

  • Kevin

    “so-called exaggerations”

    You’re kidding right?

    What she said:
    “I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”
    –Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008

    What happened:
    “Clinton and her party were greeted on the tarmac by smiling U.S. and Bosnian officials. An eight-year-old Moslem girl, Emina Bicakcic, read a poem in English. An Associated Press photograph of the greeting ceremony, above, shows a smiling Clinton bending down to receive a kiss.”

    Please – just cop to the fact that a gaffe was made and move on. Your whole “supposed exaggerations” meme is almost silly.

    • chris

      Actually you might want to tell the hyenas that instead of the people explaining to them what either happened or the account.

      “She’s a liar” is a meme.

    • http://joyhollywood.blogspot.com Connie L

      No I’m not kidding but I know you’re blind to the real facts. Try reading author Joe Conason’s “Hunting of the President” and maybe you’ll see a little better what the Clintons were going through while most people had so-called normal jobs and schedules. 50 million dollars to say that the only thing Ken Starr could get Clinton on was improper relations with you know who. I wish that was all we could say about a president with half a brain lying us into war that has killed too many innocent people and put our country in terrible jeopardy. God help our soldiers and their families.

      • Kevin

        WTF does Conason’s book and what they were going through have to do with this issue? Yes, the Starr investigation was a witch hunt – an undeniable fact that has nothing to do with the topic at hand or my point.

        The topic at hand is her repeated exaggeration of what happened simply to bolster her cred as a “fire tested” politician.

        The key point being “oft” repeated – once is one thing, but to repeatedly and purposely do it – is another. Just as one of the articles here was meticulously documenting and slamming Obama for “oops I didn’t know” – but none of the Hillary supporters here or the author of this “supposed lies” article can cop to the fact that what she said was untrue.

        Ya can’t have it both ways folks. It’s wrong when Obama “misspeaks” but it’s okay for Hillary?

        ROFLMAO

  • http://joyhollywood.blogspot.com Connie L

    I’ve had it with Obama’s free pass. It doesn’t take a genius to see Clinton getting hammered for so-called exaggerations on her foreign trips abroad as a representative of the United States. At least she has some experience out of the country. When will the media give Hillary the same treatment as any other candidate? Larry, you show your angry about the difference and I don’t blame you. You do have experience and you know the difference between Obama and Clinton. I sometimes think people like Chris Matthews on MSNBC forget that this contest is not a game but possible life ore death depending who is is the White House. Does anybody want to give somebody that doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing the red phone? Look if you think the foreign policy advisor Bryzinski(Carters former security and now advisor to Obama)is OK than be my guest. W has brought this country down in so many ways. I don’t care for Hillary that much but she is certainly better than Obama right now.

  • Annemarie

    Are you on the payroll? That’s the only way you could be forgiven for condoning Hillary Clinton’s bare-faced lies to American voters.

    It’s time the U.S. media took an ethics course.

    • chris

      actually it would be good for you to take a media course before suggesting it to anyone else.

      You clearly show in such a short comment how little you personally know about reporting.

      You have already concluded a “lie” based on…a 30 sec video clip and a fuzzy 12 year back memory? Interesting standard.

      Bet you wouldn’t want Obama held to that standard now would you…I’d love to pull up video tapes of his black conciousness conversations with “Ray” aka Keith Kakugawa.
      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-0703250359mar25,1,6124597.story?coll=chi-news-hed

      At the same time, several of his oft-recited stories may not have happened in the way he has recounted them. Some seem to make Obama look better in the retelling, others appear to exaggerate his outward struggles over issues of race, or simply skim over some of the most painful, private moments of his life.

      his friend:

      He said he does recall long, soulful talks with the young Obama and that his friend confided his longing and loneliness. But those talks, Kakugawa said, were not about race. “Not even close,” he said, adding that Obama was dealing with “some inner turmoil” in those days.

      “But it wasn’t a race thing,” he said. “Barry’s biggest struggles then were missing his parents. His biggest struggles were his feelings of abandonment. The idea that his biggest struggle was race is [bull].”

      Your turn George Seldes!

  • Savannah

    HA! This is fucking hilarious. The woman is a vacuous, entitled, former republican who thinks America owes her the presidency. Now she lies and everyone clamors to aid her in creating better versions of the lie? She lies about supporting NAFTA, she lies about ducking from fire when she really was being read a poem, she dismisses the states she doesn’t win as not representing the real America and still you would clamor in support of her? I don’t understand it at all. I’m not anti Hillary because I support Obama. I’m pro Obama because of the way Hillary and her staff have managed this campaign. At every opportunity she has failed to gain my admiration and trust. Hillary has done more for Obama’s campaign than anyone could have foreseen. My mother for months and months rallied behind Hillary but on election day she said her conscience told her to vote for Obama. You are fools and will be sorry if by some misguided luck she wins the nomination.

    • John D

      Just out of curiosity, does Obama’s flip-flop about whether or not he is in the church when Rev Wrong made those remarks upset you?

      You said it — “I don’t understand it at all.” I don’t understand why there are people out there supporting Obama either. But even W gets 30% approval rating. So I guess that says something?

    • TeakwoodKite

      admiration and trust are over rated.

      1)I don’t have admire a candidate, just need to vet them and confirm they have the required experience.
      2) what person would trust anyone in political realms? Not me.

      You are fools and will be sorry if by some misguided luck she wins the nomination.

      Notice the “FEELING” motif? This person actually laid a guilt trip on her mom…

  • Pingback: Hillary’s Voice » From today’s Media News mailing 3/24/08

  • Kathleen
  • Kathleen

    David Corn on the “whoppers”

    Clinton Tops Obama in Whoppers

    http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/davidcorn/2008/03/cl
    inton-tops-obama-in-whoppers.html

  • SVBrook

    I’m waiting for the Obama camp’s statement that her lies are just another example of a typical white woman. What a mess of their own making these demoncrats find themselves in.

  • DaveA

    Larry and all: I will give you that what Hilary did was brave. Just like a man who I greatly admire and respect for his service. To fly in a war zone with the full might, power, and protection of the US military and call yourself a foreign policy expert who should lead the nation is the height of arrogance. If this is all we want and expect; then John McCain’s dog and pony show in a Baghdad market should make him President for life.

  • maud

    If her memory is conflating the two events after some 12 years, then I would think it very likely that the memory wouldn’t suddenly change years later in a matter of days after all that time, unless there is some reason to recreate or clearly refresh the memory. Memories may fade and distort over time but in the short term they don’t change much in usual circumstances.

    • Gion

      i dont know.. i think if i were under sniper fire and had to run to an automobile, i’d remember it a little more clearly.

      i really dont know… i mean like i said, in her book she misidentified the year it took place, 95 instead of 96…

      • Strawberrybitch

        Give me a break. Any college psych major can tell you, life threatening situations can really tweak your memory. I have a hard time recalling details about car accidents and the near death experiences of my child. Do you slam incest victims for blocking out memories? Kitchen sink anyone?

        • Gion

          If she was that shaken up about it, she certainly doesnt show it in smiling waving and hugging Bosnian children in that vid. Sorry man, but you’re really reaching.

          • sjc

            Oh I guess she should be screaming like some “hysterical” woman?? You’re a weak wee man!

            • Gion

              are you going to keep spinning now that Wolfson admits that she ‘misspoke’ and that there was no sniper fire?

              • chris

                But you have overcalcuated the comment anyway.

                I challenge you to find words from Clinton that are more than “landed under sniper fire”.

                Not “we were on the tarmac with bullets flying”
                or
                “we ducked and ran with bullets flying”
                or
                “they were attempting to kill me”

                All these quotes I pulled from the various reinterpretations by “journalists” who have written in the story in the last 2 days.

                So, beyond “landed under sniper fire” can you find something beyond that?

                If she was told the plane was expecting sniper fire, it isn’t unreasonable to conclude she thought there were snipers in the hills near by, just like her speechwriter says, and consistent with the news reports Maud published above.

                I await your answer.

                • chris

                  update…just played was a clip from the campaign trail earlier

                  and again the only part she said that seems to be in dispute “ran out” because “there were reports of sniper fire”

                  not inconsistent other than the “ran out”.

                • Kevin

                  “Hillary, at GW a week ago: “I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”

                  Come on Chris… this attempt at parsing words is ridiculous.

  • maud

    Seems likely to me that she simply conflated the Tuzla C-17 landing with the Blackhawk landings in the remote bases.

    Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded her as she walked into the post.

    • Gion

      i dont see how that can be… what you see in the youtube video is her responding to a question.. but THIS is what was in her speech

      http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/speech/view/?id=6553
      “I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base. But it was a moment of great pride for me to visit our troops, not only in our main base as Tuzla, but also at two outposts where they were serving in so many capacities to deactivate and remove landmines, to hunt and seek out those who had not complied with the Dayton Accords and put down their arms, and to build relationships with the people that might lead to a peace for them and their children.”

      its very clear to me that if she made a mistake, like McCain, then she made the mistake multiple times… both in her speech, and in the Q&A

      • sjc

        Gee….. and what was obama doing at this time…? Sitting in “church”? How many lies in this scenario…; let me count. Oh nevermind… I don’t have enough time.

      • chris

        But you ignore her comment in her own bio:

        “Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac with local children, though we did have time to meet them and their teachers and to learn how hard they had worked during the war to continue classes in any safe spot they could find. One eight-year-old girl gave me a copy of a poem she had written entitled “Peace.” Chelsea and I presented the school supplies we had brought, along with letters from seventh-grade children at Baumholder whose parents and teachers had initiated a pen pal program. We were then hustled off to the fortified American base at Tuzla, “

        How is her written account different from the video you see now from CBS?

        And lets not forget, her book was written between 2000 and 2003. She had researchers and all, and their account is consistent with a video, I doubt they were using. But 5 years later, during a live press conference the question of Bosnia pops up and her memory differs, mainly in the “running to the car”. The “landed under sniper fire” is hyperbole at best, but with the above mentioned notes regarding warnings given to her and the effort to clear the area before her arrival, that isn’t so disputed. Yes, Gen. Nash says he didn’t know of reports of “snipers”, but he’s one person.

        If you want a full federal investigation over it, I’m sure it will be a waste that will surface accounts by soldiers on that mission who say, “yes we were ordered to secure the perimeter” which would be SOP, don’tcha think?

        So far, this mole hill is bigger than Everest (climbed by Sir Edmund Hillary)

  • Newport News Dem

    This is a typical smear job and Obamanamia lunacy.

    Logic dictates that anyone on the front lines of a war is, by definition, in danger. Was the security for a first lady visit immense (plus the President of Bosnia was present), you bet. Was the claim made that they were dodging a hail of gunfire, no. Was there a real risk of sniper fire, absolutely. Would they have been on the tarmac if a security sweep found any threat, no way.

    So once again, we are arguing over parsing of words. Clinton was on the front lines representing our country. Obama was in Springfield voting present.

    No contest in the gravitas wars. Obama is still an Elmer Gantry and empty suit.

  • maud

    This was posted by someone on another website discussing the issue:

    The trip she made to Bosnia was on March 25, 1996. I can’t find anything in the press reports that supports the exact account that Hillary has recollected but Sinbad’s account might be underscoring the risk too. She did visit two outposts outside of the base camp in Tuzla without the celebrities there for the USO tour.

    Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal “thank you, thank you, thank you” to U.S. troops.

    But this was a day of celebration and celebrities – a day for the U.S. troops helping to uphold the Bosnian peace accord. Mrs. Clinton hosted a USO show with comedian Sinbad and singer Sheryl Crow and briefly addressed the gathering.

    But the highlight of her trip were visits to two fortified posts outside the U.S. base in Tuzla. Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in January, did not see as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.

    Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded her as she walked into the post. Located in a “separation zone,” the U.S. outpost nestles between two tree lines. Just months ago, one was Serbian territory, the other Bosnian.

    Security was tight – fighter jets accompanied her C-17 cargo plane to Tuzla – but officials said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip.
    Lexis – By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press, March 25, 1996

    Another report:

    THE First Lady of the United States, Hillary Clinton, visited her country’s troops at their fortified outposts in north-eastern Bosnia today and said their peacekeeping work was “extraordinary to behold”.

    Mrs Clinton’s helicopter flight to Camp Alicia, home of a mechanised infantry outfit and a combat engineer batallion 15 miles east of Tuzla, took her over burned out villages and farm houses whose roofs had been blown off in the fierce fighting before last December’s Paris peace agreement ended the 43 -month-old war in Bosnia.

    A machine gun emplacement guarded the entrance of the outposts and marked Bosnian minefields were visible outside its perimeter.

    After lunch with the troops in a makeshift dining hall surrounded by sandbags, she flew on to Camp Bedrock south of Tuzla to visit an army field hospital.

    Mrs Clinton, who later returned to Tuzla for a show starring singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, said she was “amazed at how much has been accomplished in such a short period of time” by US troops in Bosnia.
    Source – Lexis – The Herald (Glasgow), March 26, 1996

    And she did spend some time in the cockpit ;-)

    So it was probably no accident that the C-17 pilot was a woman, Capt. Cheryl Beineke of Ohio. She is among just four female C-17 pilots out of about 100 in the Air Force.

    “I’m loving every minute of this,” the pilot said after Mrs. Clinton spent several minutes in the cockpit.
    Source – Lexis – By RON FOURNIER, AP International, March 25, 1996

    • Gion

      yup, that accounts for the Black Hawk helicopter visits somewhere between 10 and 4:30 that day. The initial drop in that she’s talking about though, is leaving from the C17 plane which she sat in the cockpit of.

    • chris

      Beauty work Maud,
      This is exactly what I love about finding contemporary accounts. Great job.

  • Gion

    This is pretty sad spin

    http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/Documents/HRC%20Years/HRC%201996.pdf

    has the full itinerary for the day – she deboarded , spent 20 minutes with the greeting party including a childrens class and an 8 year old girl who read her a poem, THEN left the airport, had a meeting, visited a few bases via chopper and then hit the USO show, then left for Italy.

    no reports of danger anywhere, no delays. the only touchdown with a plane like she describes is the first one in Tuzla with the kids and Chelsea, and the video shows now that she certainly didnt run to the cars and certainly wasnt in grave danger.

    I realize this looks really bad, but you have to see it for what it is. I’d be willing to concede she could have faced danger anywhere on that trip, but her account of this plane touchdown is clearly a lie or a Senior Moment.

    I mean, in her book ‘living history’ she remembered it more closely to the video:
    “Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac with local children, though we did have time to meet them and their teachers and to learn how hard they had worked during the war to continue classes…”

    but then again she got the visit date wrong, saying it was 95 instead of 96

    • Gion

      btw, the pages with the itenerary for the days in question are 468 – 471

      • simon

        Work it boys, work it.

        Didn’t someone post yesterday, Moodswing?, wasn’t he there?

        Who taught you to spin, and what does this have to do with Rezko, Auchi, and Obama’s house in trust?

        More useless snow?

        • Gion

          I wanted to make it clear to people as well that the youtube video is less damning than it could have been if they’d used an earlier clip. in this video theres room for people to say “oh, they just told them to run to their car, it doesnt mean she did”

          however in her actual speech she said:
          “I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base. But it was a moment of great pride for me to visit our troops, not only in our main base as Tuzla, but also at two outposts where they were serving in so many capacities to deactivate and remove landmines, to hunt and seek out those who had not complied with the Dayton Accords and put down their arms, and to build relationships with the people that might lead to a peace for them and their children.”

          This speech is still on her website:
          http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/speech/view/?id=6553

    • chris

      Incorrect conclusion here:
      “deboarded , spent 20 minutes with the greeting party including a childrens class and an 8 year old girl who read her a poem”

      This is what was scheduled, it doesn’t mean that they spent 20 minutes there.
      The Schedule said
      Land 8:55, depart 9:15…but the schedule doesn’t necessarily mean that was the timing.
      I would like to know when they actually left, how short was the event, that was SUPPOSED to be 20 minutes.

      The problem at hand across the board here is how many people are committing “appeal to authority” fallacies. Schedules don’t reflect reality, just desired timings. And WaPo blogs only account second hand information that the reporter thinks is logical. That blog post you keep pasting is from someone, who by their own account, wasn’t there. They refer to another reporter who might not have been in the gaggle, dunno. But so much of it is 2nd and 3rd.

      And the video clip…its less than a minute of an event that was supposed to last 20 minutes.

      So, I propose this:
      I’ll film an event for 20 minutes, cut out 30sec to 1 minute and let you conclude 12 years later what TRULY HAPPENED. Then I’ll publish the whole event and see how much your eyes lie to you.

      I don’t believe Mrs. Clinton lied about ‘landing under sniper fire’. I believe she did misspeak about ‘running to our cars’.

      My archives don’t lie about what I capture on TV or radio, but the accounts they store might already be distorted. I have almost a decade of news on video tape just for the purpose of keeping track of our collective amnesia. And it is very vital to go back and watch…March 24, 2003 (aka day 5 of the Iraq War)
      My favorite footage is Geraldo Rivera being warned DO NOT GIVE AWAY OUR LOCATION NUMBNUTS.

  • Regency

    It does not make sense that she would lie about something so easily disproved. What does make sense is that she was told they were under fire and how to act accordingly. If that’s what she recalls, who am I to disagree?

    It will be a big deal when the Rethugs get to it, but it doesn’t change the fact that she did go into a Hot Zone and actually, y’know, did something while Barack was still screwing over his constituents in Chicago.

    That’s just my opinion though.

  • Christian

    She did what every jaded politician does…she took something that was PARTIALLY true, then turned it into a story about being heroic under fire.

    Lissa Muscatine said, “We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip.”

    But in the end, it didn’t happen. No sniper fire, no running with heads down. Yet that’s how she makes it sound.

    Typical politico speak. Check out the Washington Post take on it:

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/03/hillarys_balkan_adventures_par.html

  • jawbone

    Calling Democratic presidential nominees and primary candidates (usually the front runners) untrustworth or even liars is SOP for the MCM (Mainstream Corporate Media). It went on for almost two years about Al Gore. It succeeded to the point that, along with a terrible ballot design, Bush got close enough to send the election to the Supreme Five for his selection.

    I remember being stunned that Al Gore, kind of a Boy Scout in terms of honor and truthfulness, was being labeled a liar, etc., in the press. As the campaign went on MoDo and Frank Rich were leaders in painting an image of him as a serial liar, serial exaggerator, someone willing to say or do anything to win (Chris Matthews infamously said he was willing to lick the bathroom floor to win–high ick factor there), along with being the usual whimp Dem who didn’t “comfortable in his own skin.” Bob Somerby has archives full of how the RNC/Bush campaign/the MCM (and earlier Bill Bradley) trashed Gore’s character. Remember how the MCMers clutched their pearls bcz Gore misremembered which FEMA official had accompanied him to Texas? Recall how they got their panties in a twist bcz he used a story about a girl having to stand in her classroom in Florida, based on a note from her father to Gore which included an article from a local newspaper? Apparently the newspaper made an error in the number of days or some small fact–but Gore was tarred with lying or exaggerating.

    What was wrong with Al Gore that he trusted a citizen’s story backed up by a newspaper article and photo? Clearly, the man was deranged! (That was also suggested as things got uglier.) Oh, and that cost of prescription medicine thing (which I never completely understood as being a “lie”)? Gore could make no small error in his statements without being crucified in the MCM. Bush was seldom called on anything. Krugman was the only one regularly saying his tax plans and SocSec proposals simply made no sense mathematically or economically. But the MCM gave Bush pass after pass. Bcz that’s what the Corporate part of the MCM wanted.

    The MCM to this day brings up Love Story, Inventing the Internet, even Love Canal (caps bcz they are MCM short stories) to attack Gore and now any pol, celeb, or even sports figure they want to paint as untrustworthy. Or not “authentic.”

    I bet more people remember Al Gore’s “exaggerations” than recall any of his issues and proposals (except for the “lock box” which the MCM luuuuved to make fun of). Think about it. Think about it–what would people remember more if polled today?

    Now, Axelrod, Plouffe, and Obama are going into overdrive on trashing Hillary Clinton’s character (and Bill’s for good measure)–say or do anything, lie, exaggerate, has no experience, not “transparent,” and there’s always Whitewater. SCHIP? Liar! Bosnia? Liar! Africa work? Liar! Nothern Ireland? Liar! As with Gore, btw, the accusaion often has more staying power than the truthful rebuttal. Hey, voters, just think of her as Liary!

    The racist and racism things are really just piling on–and dangerous to the party–but it’s what the Obama camp decided was necessary to do in order to win (projection, much, gang?).

    Gore was a known quantity to most of the public, but still the MCM/RNC could trash him in the minds of just enough people. Same with Hillary–she is a known quantity, but, even for someone who knows her, having the MCM say she’s downright lying about Bosnia is, well, worrisome. Especially for the reality-based community, or at least those who still like their facts “factual.” If it doesn’t destroy her image, it at least raises questions and dampens enthusiasm. The objective in this close primary.

    Obama backers, have you thought about what’s going to happen to Obama– who is not really well known, who has large gaps in his biography as known by the public, who doesn’t have a sizable amount of public goodwill in his political account — when the MCM/RNC (and their 527 and other minions) go after Obama for real? Michelle will not recognize him–he may not recognize himself.

    What’s being done to Hillary will be done to Obama–IF the MCM has decided they want St McBush. The only way he gets a pass or even playing field is if the C part of the MCM has decided St. McSame is too dangerous for their continued prosperity. That is a possibility. But, then, with a Dem in the WH too much else might be done or even revealed about the Bush years, so, perhaps, the C’s will take their chances on the safety of any Repub in power.

    What’s so sad is that I can no longer trust the Big Blogs on the left to tell me the factual basis of charges–or to dig into accusations against one candidate, even if from Drudgico. And they will vet the newbie for me. I expected standards. For some sites, they are gone.

    How can I trust the next revelation about BushCo if it’s from, say, TPM? Their crediblity is now suspect bcz they chose to go overboard for one candidate. After working so hard to gain that cred. For me, it’s a sad, sad thing: I know I can’t trust the MCM, that rightwing blogs have no standards, and, now, some of the best known leftish blogs are in the same mess. Damn.

    • simon

      Hey, voters, just think of her as Liary!

      The only people who jump on that bandwagon, though, are those who need to gossip, those who need to feel superior to another by trashing the object of gossip.

      So, we’ll see.

      The msm tends to get wrapped in it’s own head.

    • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

      Really, most of the charges against Gore were based on misquotes, or inadequate fact-checking or outright lies by the accusers. The story of insufficient desks in Florida turned out to be true after all; teachers had been complaining about it for weeks.

      Gore didn’t fight that tactic very well, but the CLintons had a good view of it and hopefully will be able to fight better.

  • MarkL

    Question about Obama’s TV ads in FL:
    Apparently there weren’t just a small number—the airwaves in FL were saturated with these ads for a month before the primary.
    My first question is whether that’s true.
    Second, I know that the Obamacans say that this we legit, because these were national ad buys. So.. how many national ad buys has Obama made since Jan. 29?
    Did the Obama campaign flout the rules by buying ads nationally (or regionally) so they could target Florida?

    • TeakWoodKite

      Perhaps Flyarm has commented or others that live in florida, but my understanding is he ran ad’s in states that are recieved in Florida.

      • Andy

        Obama run TV Ads in Florida as part of what is called a “National buy”.
        The ads aired on CNN and MSNBC (at least). He claims he was told he couldn’t exclude Florida form a “national buy”; but I read that this was not true; that he could have opted out a region in the country which included FL and other states which didn’t have primaries at that time anyway
        (I do not know the truth but this is what I read; can’t find the links; it was a while back…).
        By the way: Obama was the only candidate to run TV Ads in FL ahead of the primaries.

        • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

          He’s also the only candidate who violated the ‘no campaigning in Florida’ agreement by having a news conference there. At it, he hinted that he would support the seating of the Florida delegates.

    • Andy

      He didn’t have to do National Ads at that time; he could have waited
      after FL to run them for SuperTuesday. It was clearly a tactic to air in
      FL as well.

    • Andy

      He didn’t have to get “National buys” at that time; he could have waited
      after FL to run them for SuperTuesday. It was clearly a tactic to air in
      FL as well.

  • MarkL

    Remember when Gore was called a huge liar for saying he toured Texas after a certain disaster with the head of FEMA? Very similar situation here. As I recall, Gore had gone to Tx, but not with the head of FEMA this particular time. Other times? Yes.

  • Thrasyboulos

    Should Obama be nominated, he will be swiftboated to oblivion in two weeks. The leghumping media will turn on him on a dime.

    The devastation will be entirely, 100 percent, totally, the fault the “left blogistan”, the likes of the increasingly shrill Huff Post, Dean/Pelosi, limousine liberals like Kerry…and of course, the deluded political, aka, Obamabots. And they will be blamed, of that there is no question.

    Big Media is doing Obama a big favor right now, but that will disappear faster than a snowflake in August.

    • sjc

      Amen!

    • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

      Lucky for Obama this broke before he became nominee. If he withdraws soon and drops out of sight, the storm will quieten somewhat, and by 2016 it might be forgotten.

  • Mike Howell

    Mitchman –


    from Lissa Muscatine: “I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17– a plane capable of steep ascents and descents — precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.”

    “During her daylong visit to American forces at three bases in northeast Bosnia,”

    “At another camp, named Alicia, from where 600 soldiers in the First Squadron, Fourth Cavalry patrol the zone of separation between the Bosnian Government and Bosnian Serb armies, many soldiers crowded in to see Mrs. Clinton and her daughter, Chelsea”

    “At another camp here, known as Bedrock, Mrs. Clinton visited what officers described as a state-of-the-art military field hospital.”

    “Today’s visit came as some troops, living uncomfortably and often dangerously”.

    The schedule shows Mrs. Clinton was accompanied by Togo West.

    And where was BO at the time? Stinking up the IL legislature putting in 2 whole months a year pressing the wrong button and voting present.

    Not until Jones decides to “make him a Senator” does he get thrown all of the other WORKING folks legislation.

    BO is such a zero his foreign experience comes down to idiotic meddling in what became a near genocide in Kenya – where his cousin wants to put women back in veils - and playing dress up in Somalia.

    Somehow I can’t picture big ol’Michelle taking his orders – much less wearing a veil… And didn’t she condemn Hillary for not “controlling” her house or some such shit?

    I wonder if BO wears the hat and dress around his ill gotten mansion? And is BO the King or the Queen of his castle?

  • Mitchman

    Hillary is liar, liar pants on fire on this one….

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/03/hillarys_balkan_adventures_par.html

    Sorry – Facts and video due suck when you “strecth” the truth…

  • Douglas

    “But if the big difference is whether she shook hands after getting off the plane or dashed to the car ducking gunfire, well, at least she was visiting Europe in an official capacity.”

    So if Barack Obama had travelled to Bosnia back in 1996 and he’d said “I remember landing under sniper fire and we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.” keeping in mind this is one of the key moments from his extensive “experience” he touts as shaping him immediately from day one as the man to run the country.

    And then unfortunately 12 years later, in the middle of a pitched presidential run, it turns out that the video footage, statements of people who were there and all the evidence pointed to the contrary.

    In fact it told quite a different story of a little girl handing over a poem and a bouquet of flowers as he strolls casually across the tarmac with his 16 year old daughter, a country singer and a middling to sometime funny comedian. All of this i might add three months AFTER the war was over and peace accords had been signed.

    You’re telling me Larry, that you’d be writing this in defense of Obama? You’d take him at his word. No doubt in your mind that he was’nt telling porkies.

    You’re telling me you’d be on the 3am phone to Susan, fleaflicker and dcmediagirl letting them know not to bother blogging this one, there is no there, there?

    I find that a little hard to believe. But kudos.

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      Douglas,
      Who could tell you anything? We are unfortunate to not have the intellectual skills that you possess. We will just sit by quietly envious that we are in the presence of greatness. Sort of like Obama.

      • Kevin

        Larry,

        With all due respect to yourself and Hillary’s supporters on this thread – but seriously what’s with this “supposed lie meme?:

        “Hillary, at GW a week ago: “I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”"

        The First Lady’s schedule, released on Wednesday and available here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c), confirms that she arrived in Tuzla at 8.45 a.m. and was greeted by various dignitaries, including Emina Bicakcic, (whose name has mysteriously been redacted from the document.)

        You can see CBS News footage of the arrival ceremony here. The footage shows Clinton walking calmly out of the back of the C-17 military transport plane that brought her from Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany.

        Among the U.S. officials on hand to greet Clinton at the airport was Maj. Gen. William Nash, the commander of U.S. troops in Bosnia. Nash told me that he was unaware of any security threat to Clinton during her eight-hour stay in Tuzla. He said, however, that Clinton had a “busy schedule” and may have got the impression that she was being hurried on her way.

      • Douglas

        Larry,
        Wow. Thanks. I call it as i see it and i’m labelled as some sort of genius poser with an intellectual superiority complex looking down my nose at everyone. Thats REALLY your response?

        You know…i started coming to this blog after hearing you numerous times on Stephanie Miller. Why? Because i really appreciated, agreed with and enjoyed your frankness, humour, smarts, common sense and opinion on all things foreign policy, intelligence and politics. Jesus, you even made me start to feel sorry for and appreciate the existence of the freakin’CIA after it’s singlehandedly being torn apart by this ridiculous administration.

        At no time on this blog since i’ve started to feel comfortable commenting have i ever insulted anyone, called anyone names, insinuated they’re illiterate, dumb, (or the crazy one i just DON’T get)…too smart for their own good. Since when has having a brain been a bad thing? And how can you be both illiterate AND an intellectual elite? Scroll up, Mike implies i can’t read…yet you say i’m too smart. WHICH IS IT!?

        I actually DO take the time to comment, i actually DO take the time to research, read and get my facts and thoughts straight before commenting because thats part of the process for me. As Bill Hicks said “We are all one consciousness, experiencing itself subjectively…evolution did not end with us growing thumbs.”

        Yet 95% of the time I’ve joined the conversation here, tried to start a debate or offered a contrary opinion i’ll either hear crickets or i’m insulted. I’ve been called a shithead, a mindless drone, illiterate, narcissistic, a troll, i’ve had my personal life called into question, i’ve been called insecure, lacking critical thinking skills and which ever fucking combination of obamatron, droid, robot, mindless cult bullshit you want to put together.

        I can put up with it. I’m a tough guy, as frustrating as it is, feeling like you’re talking to a brick wall, i actually laugh most of the time. It’s funny. A site that complains and claims to be an oasis away from the supposed consistent bullying, empty rhetoric and hateful lashing out of Obama “fans”…sure does seem to do lot of it themselves. But thats cool…i expect it from a comments section. you get as many moonbats as you do smart, polite, thoughtful people.

        But when the actual guy who puts his name to the site, the guy i actually come here to read dumps the same bullshit on me. Well…thats not only incredibly disappointing…it’s kinda lame.

        And while i’m not going to throw a ridiculous Daily Kos hissy fit and storm off with my bat and ball on some sort of “writers strike”, you’ve just put me on the same page as where you’re all coming from. You’re no different to the Obamatrons you decry as leading the country to it’s demise. You’re either with us or you’re against us. Obama bad, Hillary AWESOME.

        Thanks for giving me the pinch of salt i’ll now be taking everytime i read you.

        d.

        • chris

          well note that I’ve given you more than enough of my valued time Douglas, so stick to the topic please. LJ is probably tired of some of the lack of substance of many posters here, but I’ll let him speak for himself.

        • Mike Howell

          Douglas –

          Again – you’re soooo full of shit. I pleaded with your whiney ass several of your whines ago to enlighten the readers here with the majesty of BO’s foreign policy experience.

          If you ever came up with facts to tell us why Rezko or Rev. Wright or Rev. Moss or Auchi or Alsamare or Emil Jones are good things.

          Not a word. Nope, the extent of your discourse is ALWAYS “I feel bleat bleat bleat”. Or “You’re being mean”.

          Well that isn’t political discourse – it’s therapy. Take your damn ball and get a counselor.

          THE INCREDIBLE VICTIMS:

          BO & DOUGLAS & KEVIN BOO HOO!

    • chris

      I know I would give him the benefit of the doubt like I did regarding his exaggerations about his childhood in his book Dreams of My Father. He goes on and on as the plantiff cry of “we would discussion black consciousness”…when his peers of the time have been interviewed and say, thats not how they recall it.

      Should I call him a liar for those accounts?

      See, we have a gotcha game going here where reporters who weren’t even there, compounded by pundits and critics who were even less there are in a glorious rush to say “liar” based on 30 seconds of CBS footage for what even the recently released schedules indicate was to be 20 minutes of an event.

      Some are so eager to say, “smoking gun”…a funny association here regarding sniper talk, that they take “landed under fire” to mean, ‘stood in the tarmak with bullets flying all around and were almost killed while the enemy and I engaged in hand to hand combat”

      I even read one guy at the leftie Op-Ed lie and saying, “clinton is saying they were trying to murder her”.

      She said nothing of the sort, and if she was told while they were landing that there were reports of sniper fire…(YOU CAN’T HEAR THAT IN A C17), then she could have believed they were under fire.

      Want to give her a polygraph? I’d be glad to see those results. You and I know that if a person believes a memory fully then they’ll pass it. Your video evidence of 30sec doesn’t dispute “landed under sniper fire”. It does seem to dispute whether she ducked and ran to a car, but even that doesn’t explain compounded memories which, don’t know about you, but I have.

      So lets play the gotcha game instead of fact checking. By starting with the conclusion she is lying you will seek any evidence that presents a ‘lie’ instead of mistakenly remembering details 12 years later.

      Huffington Post was in a nice gitty whirl yesterday and said,

      This latest deception isdocumented in detail in the Washington Post by a reporter who was there.

      Except that isn’t true. The reporter that wrote the WaPo story WAS in Bosnia in the general time frame, but he responds with comments second hand from another writer

      Numerous reporters, including the Washington Post’s John Pomfret, covered her trip. A review of nearly 100 news accounts of her visit shows that not a single newspaper or television station reported any security threat to the First Lady. “As a former AP wire service hack, I can safely say that it would have been in my lead had anything like that happened,” said Pomfret.

      Wait…HuffingBag Post says he was THERE..HE WAS THERE

      by a reporter who was there.

      Then why did he write:

      According to Pomfret,

      if he was THERE?

      This is rather embarrasing for the Daily Kos crowd, the Huffington Crowd, and others who just are so elated with themselves at 30sec video clip about a 20 minute event…and have failed to ignore even the CBS comment at the beginning

      “First Lady Hillary Clinton is in Bosnia this morning, touring US bases and visiting American troops on the FRONT LINES OF THE PEACE KEEPING MISSION

      • simon

        know I would give him the benefit of the doubt like I did regarding his exaggerations about his childhood in his book Dreams of My Father. He goes on and on as the plantiff cry of “we would discussion black consciousness”…when his peers of the time have been interviewed and say, thats not how they recall it.

        The more I read about this, the more I wonder if much of his resentment stems from his Mom “dumping” him with his grandparents.

        Of course he’d be angry, hurt, enraged and resentful, what child wouldn’t be?

        Explains a lot, but that must have been one hell of a childhood in regard to his parents, ie dad the bigamist abandoned him for Kenya and another family, and then Mom did the same, later, to go to Indonesia.

        For many parents, children are the first priority, many sacrifice for their families.

        I don’t mean spoiled, but under otherwise stable circumstances, parents won’t leave their children with another, to raise.

        They do what they need to make it work, Obama seemed an afterthought, sloppy seconds, someone in the way, to be brutal.

        Wow.

        • sjc

          So tell him to go to a shrink to deal with his insecurities and identity issues and not take it out on the American people.

        • chris

          I don’t know..but I can tell you Simon, I have lived a very similar life to Obama, except my father didn’t leave my mother to go to Harvard. But they were divorced when I was about 1yr old. I lived with her for 6 years, him the next 6, then my maternal grandmother (saint).

          I lost my father too, when I was just 13.
          The similarities in our lives are striking to me, and I cannot spend too much time projecting my issues on him, but I see tons of identity searching issues between us. I see his accounts in relation to the accounts of others and see him making up shit to make his life better than it actually was.

          One of his biggest issues, “dreams of my father” really connects with mine in that we both have a need, a strong need, to forgive our fathers for not being there (but for slightly different reasons. My father was indeed there, other than dying young. He did not abandon us. He was not still married to someone back in Africa, but he did have a previous child.

          My memories of my father have driven much of my life. My conflicts and successes are driven by that lack. Obama has been more than vocal about this. He has turned to men as his mentors, over and over mentioning them.

          What we don’t have in common directly is a biracial background, but because of lots of the living I’ve done, I’ve been in many situations that helped me leave “white” behind years ago.

          For instance, in my later youth (before I was released into the wild) I was taken in by my best friend’s family for a couple of years before they moved away. They were originally from Laredo Texas and had a very different way of living than I ever grew up with. They had a loving home with 2 parents who had always been married. I consider my best friend’s mom as one of the most important people in my life because she taught me to cook, iron my clothes, gave me disciplined love that wasn’t done with a belt but just being clear. It was amazing. But most important it was a house hold that spoke plenty of spanish to give me a totally different outlook than what I had before.

          I read what Obama wrote about his youth and its what my great friend said, “idealizing your past”. My friend asked me, “you sound like you idealize your past a bit too much, what do you think?”

          I had to really think about what he meant and I agreed with him. Even the traumatic events had to have a certain glow about them. Obamas words don’t match his peers recollections in many ways. Those divergent points reflect a young man who was alone, isolated in many ways, sought social and familial connections.

          But its also why I don’t trust his current motivations. If he’s driven by something out of those roots then I don’t want him to take us down those paths. i love the man for his struggle as I would any brother of mine in the world. But I don’t need to enable him, and I especially don’t want to enable his followers who seem so bent on a “hope” that they didn’t seem to believe in before his name popped up.

          I’m sure I’ll go on about this in other threads, so I’ll conclude for now.

      • Douglas

        I’d actually say it’s more embarrassing for Hillary Clinton, than your favorite bugbears Kos and Huffpo.

        And all you’re doing is splitting hairs that have been split three times already by most of the people here and the Clinton camp themselves. Spinning so incredibly fast in an effort to franticly prove that she couldn’t POSSIBLY have been dropping a few rich stinkers you can’t keep up with yourselves.

        There were maybe snipers in the hills who may have possibly shot at her. Precautions were taken, sure, but even the general who was there never at ANYTIME felt she was in immediate danger. Maj. Gen. William Nash. Not the liberal, biased Obama media, A UNITED STATES GENERAL. She says that it may have happened during landing not WHEN they had landed, the ceremony was 20 minutes not 30 seconds and people on huffpo are misquoting reporters. Come on.

        Weak, weaker and weakest.

        Honestly? At the end of the day you’re right, this is just nonsense “gotcha” politics that gets nobody anywhere. But you cannot stand there and truthfully tell me that this wouldn’t be an issue on THIS site, Fox news and the like if it was Obama telling the lies about this situation.

        Thats my real issue here. Some honesty helps us all evolve.

        She lied, she got found out. She gets a red ex next to her name. Deal with it.

    • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

      See the quote above about REPORTS of snipers in the hills, a ceremony CUT SHORT. A run for the cars after the SHORTENED ceremony seems more reasonable than your stroll.

  • Marco

    Hey, Joe. Your comment was sophisticated? To find honest debate, maybe you should try engaging in it instead of whining that it doesn’t exist. You might find some that way.

  • OldCoastie

    I wonder how much money Sinbad has given the Obama campaign?

    • chris

      Its irrelevant really. He has said he is done commenting on this. I credit him for having the MOST intelligence in the Obama ranks. He isn’t going to play the game. We all know before the C17 made its landing everyone pulled Sinbad into the cockpit to tell him the plans.

      • StatBabe

        We all know before the C17 made its landing everyone pulled Sinbad into the cockpit to tell him the plans.

        Pardon my ignorance–who is Sinbad? The only Sinbad that I know about is a black comedian and actor. If this is a sarcastic reference to someone else, I’m missing something.

        • chris

          yes he’s the comedian. He was on the trip as part of USO work. And of course it would SOP to let him know about all the dangers.

          Which is probably why Togo West said:
          “A couple things. I want to say this carefully because I don’t want to suggest any difference in care about the security and safety of members. The military cared about the safety of everyone. But you can understand that they would have said to the first lady, ‘we’re not going to take any chances with you.

          Run, duck, this is a hotspot this is serious’.

    • sjc

      Carefull…. you might be called a rascist!!!

  • blueasthesky

    All of these attacks on Hillary’s foreign policy experience are going to help her because they’ll reinforce the fact that Hillary actually HAS some foreign policy experience to attack. Sure, one might reason, maybe she’s exaggerating about what she did in Bosnia, but at least she went to Bosnia and did something. Maybe her role in Ireland wasn’t quite as prominent as she claims, but at least she at a role over there.

    • sjc

      The obama campaign has nothing positive to promote about obama’s experience, so with typical GOP style tactics, they try and make the ‘other guy’ (gal in this case), look bad… I always hoped the Dems could rise above this. Guess I was dreaming!

    • Nancy H. Armstrong

      The women of Northern Ireland say Hillary had much to do with them becoming more involved in things there. They talk often about the speech she gave them.

  • http://joe.com joe

    i mean, it would be one thing if you and the gang were trying to make adult arguments and criticisms. but it’s all hysterical third-grade reading level crybaby criticisms. i certainly will see this blog in a different light post-primary. i thought it was more sophisticated that it apparently is.

    Yeah, obama sucks and hillary is just awesome and great, and obama is like the big pussy in the sopranos and hell yeah. That pretty much sums up the last month of this blog’s posts.

    • chris

      ewww, I always love to be patronized and talked to with condescention. It makes my nips hard. Ya see, I read the posts and one thing is clear, we’ve seen your kind here many times, aka the drive by pundit who has no real take, just gripes about “adult”, “crybaby”, “sophisticated”. You’re a fucking hoot!

      So, Socrates give us a rhetoric lesson on how to express our collective outrage on Obama’s fabrications about ‘not talking to Canada bout nafta’, about his ‘we used to discuss black consciousness issues when I was in school’, ‘i barely know tony rezko’, ‘if I had ever heard such comments I do believe I’d have left the church’, ‘i’m going to end the politics of destruction’, ‘i have the will of the people’, (my fingers will fall off before I finish the list of his myths), “i’ve been consistently against the war, especially when I said there wasn’t much difference between my position on the war and that of George Bush’s”, “i’ll complete my term as Senator” (he might get to fulfill that yet).

      So, oh great philospher will you please educate us poor childish folks on the great skills you so wish to see?

    • Mike Howell

      joe –

      As far as I can tell, I’m the goofiest person writing on this blog and that puts it past the Doctorate level.

      If they have to put up with me they shouldn’t be subjected to your unfounded condemnation, but it is Spring Break and the kiddies are on their computers.

      Try the Weekly Reader website or Obamamania. I’m sure that they will better meet your needs.

      I’d offer more constructive advice, but I’m guessing that you’re supposed to be reading Charlotte’s Web for that book report.

    • simon

      That pretty much sums up the last month of this blog’s posts.

      Maybe the problem is you, and the problem is with your head.

      I was at Costco yesterday, and there was a man, late thirties, a dockers and polo shirt type, corporate haircut, selling Juiceman juicers, to the assembled crowd.

      And I thought, OMG, if Obama hadn’t of run for President, his staff would be selling Juiceman’s at Costco, on a Saturday afternoon.

      All ego, no talent, none, at all.

      Remember that band “Big Head Todd and the Monsters?”

      Well, they’re all big head Todd’s, precious, all hat, no cattle, all Ivy League, no doubt all from Conn.

      Heh.

      So, Obama?

      Just another big head todd…

    • simon

      Yeah, obama sucks and hillary is just awesome and great, and obama is like the big pussy in the sopranos and hell yeah

      Actually, isn’t Gen Mcpeak the big pussy?

  • jackie

    Senator Clinton wrote about this trip in her book, Living History. It was very detailed, as I would say at least 1/3 of the book was about foreign travel as First Lady. I don’t understand the splitting hairs with this trip. There are other people that verify Hillary’s version. It’s the same motive for how they start casting doubt on ALL her accomplishments as First Lady. The “well, she REALLY didn’t pass the Family Medical Leave Act, crap.” Well, she never said she did. But she was clearly involved in policy issues as First Lady. Everyone knows she was involved in family and children’s issues. I guess this is what is called, “the aggressive assault on Hillary tactic.”

    Right after giving the Big Speech about unity and respect. Whatever.

    • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

      That’s out of the ‘Gore lies’ playbook too.

      The target says ‘I did A,B, and C.’

      The attacker says ‘He never did D! He’s lying!”

  • Dawnelle

    I used to get my info, links, chat on the DNC open thread.

    LMAO! I mean I was there for YEARS!!!

    (slapping myself in the forehead)

    I left a while back when the Odrama-drool got to be too much to bare. I just went back there for the first time in ages and I swear to ALL THAT IS TRUE they are like ostriches scratching their head not understand how come the evil nasty fox news can STILL be talking about Jeremiah. Calling it a slash and burn campaign that is apparently not going to work. Someone else was promoting that ONE lone gallup poll putting Obama back up where he was before the Wright Scandal. And promoting it and Promoting it…………. like noxious brainwashing!

    It was horribly disgusting to watch (er read) perfectly good humans with their necks stretched so tight and their heads deep in the sand.

    They’re not gonna know what hit them when Obiwan loses in NOV by double digits.

    They will BLAME the media, BLAME the right, BLAME fox news, blame Hillary voters, but NEVER consider that they shot their self in the foot. Not for a second.

    dee,dee,dee (as mencia would say)

    never thought I’d say that about what I thought was my OWN party!! ARgh!
    rant over thankyou for the space! ;-)
    gnite!
    GO HILLARY! DON’T GIVE UP ON US And WE WON’T GIVE UP ON YOU!!

    • chris

      :(
      Obiwan rocks, Obama is no Obiwan.

  • http://www.thinkyouth.org/ Dan Solis

    The way I see it, at least Hillary has foreign policy experiences to be confused about.

    • Shainzona

      LOL – and GREAT point.

  • chris

    It has been reported she visited 3 bases, not one. Perhaps we could check to see which bases, and which base this video comes from. The schedule indicates Tuzla was where a greeting with an “8yr old child” would take place.

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/FirstLady_Schedule_1996_Mar_25.pdf?mod=WSJBlog

    Interesting what happens when the Gotcha game gets going.

    NYTimes reported:
    By MIKE O’CONNOR
    Published: March 26, 1996
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE3D61139F935A15750C0A960958260
    “During her daylong visit to American forces at three bases in northeast Bosnia,”

    “At another camp, named Alicia, from where 600 soldiers in the First Squadron, Fourth Cavalry patrol the zone of separation between the Bosnian Government and Bosnian Serb armies, many soldiers crowded in to see Mrs. Clinton and her daughter, Chelsea”

    “At another camp here, known as Bedrock, Mrs. Clinton visited what officers described as a state-of-the-art military field hospital.”

    “Today’s visit came as some troops, living uncomfortably and often dangerously” (bold is my emphasis, based on the comments that the war was over)

    The schedule shows Mrs. Clinton was accompanied by Togo West.

  • Marco

    I ask that everyone head to Huffpo to read their piece on this. It’s friggin’ unintentionally hilarious, especially after the UPDATE is mentioned.

    • chris

      You mean this update?
      See what happens when people are so interested in their view being validated instead of validating a truthful account?

      Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton’s chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her “vivid recollections” of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

      I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17– a plane capable of steep ascents and descents — precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

  • Steve

    I used to really enjoy this blog. Now it is the bash Obama and suck up to Hillary for every post. Let’s get back to pointing out the Constitutional crisis that is the Bush administration and their heir apparent McCain. You are officially off my favorites list.

    Thank you and good night!

    • TeakWoodKite

      Constitutional crisis

      All in good time Steve. First, in my humble opinion, this country needs to elect a person who knows where King George hid the bloody thing! That would be Senator Hillary Clinton.

    • Chris

      Totally agree. This is a mindless Hillary fan blog now. How about opening up to the possibility that there was no gunfire, and that Hillary’s account was bogus. Isn’t that a possibility? She was caught lying, and i don’t understand why the Hillary-bots aren’t interested.

      I am not an Obama partisan, but I am not interested in this drivel, or the Obama bashing that has dominated this site recently. Larry, you are losing your audience. Your niche is national security and intelligence. Tell SusanUnPC et. al to tone it down!

      • chris

        How about the possibility (especially due to the accounts from people there, that there were reports of sniper fire being told to her as they landed. Nothing has refuted this possibility at all.)
        Lissa Muscatine: “We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla.”
        Togo West: “‘It was a hot zone, it was a combat zone”
        Clinton: “LANDED under sniper fire”
        isn’t the same as “stood on the tarmak with snipers firing at us”

        If she was told there were snipers in the area, then her account wouldn’t be fictional at all.

        Is it also a possibility that people like yourself will never accept an account that doesn’t end with Hillary Clinton being a liar? I used to be that way myself, so I know that mindset more than examining facts and accounts.

        The Huffington Post is in an orgasm over it all. They falsely claimed their boast on a report from a WaPo writer they say “was there”, but even by his own account he wasn’t there, but had been there another time near her trip. He relies upon the account of yet another writer. And he improperly concludes that since he hadn’t heard of sniper fire, then there must not have been any.

        I would like to hear from the people on the plane who told her, or didn’t tell her, there was sniper fire expected.

        She wrote clearly in her book that she met with the little girl:
        “Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac with local children, though we did have time to meet them and their teachers and to learn how hard they had worked during the war to continue classes in any safe spot they could find. One eight-year-old girl gave me a copy of a poem she had written entitled “Peace.””

        Stay tuned as this is dealt with.

        I have already considered the possibility that there was no sniper fire, but that doesn’t discount that she may have been told upon arrival that they were expecting sniper fire to be careful. Or that she saw the precautions being taken including flack jackets and moving to the front of the cockpit as a safety measure and was told there were reports of sniper fire.

        And if you think this discussion doesn’t deal with Larry’s background in intelligence analysis, then you don’t know the meaning of the fucking word.

        • Douglas

          So you don’t think for a second, that if the first lady, her 16 year old daughter, a country singer and a comedian had come under fire on the tarmac from snipers in a war zone, so much so they had to “run with their heads down to get into the vehicles to get to their base” that it wouldn’t have made the news? It wouldn’t have been reported on as a pretty major story at the time? Possibly even the lead on every single paper and television in the country?

          Especially as it was taking place at an an air base firmly under the control of the 1st Armored Division, 3 months after the end of a war in which peace accords had been signed and 2 months after the President himself had visited.

          The very same President who, according to his wife, apparently thinks it’s a pretty good idea to send his wife and teenage daughter into situations deemed too dangerous for him.

          You don’t think that the “anti-clinton” media would have made a headline or two out of that doozy?

          Stay tuned indeed.

          • Mike Howell

            Douglas –

            I again suggest that you as an Obamaton READ! Read Larry’s post above – if you’re able. See the part about sniper fire and his friend?

            No the press is frequently not in such a dangerous situation standing around taking photos.

            Hell, the press took years to get the hate sermon videos offered for sale from Obama’s Rev. Wrong’s website, so I wouldn’t rely on them.

            • Douglas

              “Douglas – I again suggest that you as an Obamaton READ!”

              Mike – Again!? I don’t recall you suggesting it the first time. But to allay your fears I have been!

              “Read Larry’s post above – if you’re able.”

              Wait…i thought as my station of Obamaton requires, i’m was meant to be an educated latte-swilling, psuedo intellectual, liberal elite! Am i supposed to be able to read or not?


              “See the part about sniper fire and his friend?”

              Yes!

              OH…that was you making a point! Okay i’m with you now!
              Right…
              So while it was a great story, I’m not entirely sure what Larry’s mate has to do with anything. Nobody as far as i’ve read, especially not me anyway, is disputing Hillary’s account of the plane flight in.
              It may very well have done some crazy loop the loops at 20 g-forces per cubic metre. I have no doubt they put her in the cockpit and made people sit on flac jackets. Thats not the issue.

              The issue is, you know, because i read, what happened AFTER the loop the loops.
              The issue is shes busting out some rich porky pies about what happened once she was on the ground. Because according to Hillary’s account they were ordered to start running like they stole something, heads down, towards the awaiting cars apparently because there were bullets whizzing past their heads.

              Yet on the video Larry posted above…at the air base on the day this all apparently took place…there she is: leaving the plane with her daughter, a country singer and a comedian and greeting a party of dignitaries. Which included a smiling little girl with a bunch of flowers and a poem about how awesome and peaceful everything is since Bill Clinton brought it, in case you haven’t read…3 months earlier.

              Am i missing anything?

              Would this be the “media beat up, non-issue” you’re all breathlessly trying to double spin and convince yourselves of, if the sneakers were on the other foot and it was Obama doing the running? I doubt it.

              A little bit more honesty and less ridiculous unceasing hypocrisy is all i’m asking. It sets rational humans apart from the Rethuglicans i’ve found.

              I look forward to continued weak responses labelling me an illiterate bamboozled obamabot0tron and something to do with “well at least she was IN Europe…and not eating chocolate cookies with Rezko, racists, Auchi, and terrorists. EXPENSIVE chocolate cookies stolen from small children!”

              • Mike Howell

                Douglas-

                You’re so full of shit. You’ve never defended Hillary Clinton and you’re always going on about the victimhood of Obama.

                So please, I implore you to regal us with your gems of Obama’s foreign policy experience, which should start with his sub-committee Chair.

                Please do carry on!

                • simon

                  which should start with his sub-committee Chair.

                  Don’t mention the subcommittee chair, for some reason it makes people very nervous.

                  For the life of me, I can’t figure out why, it was a plum assignment, wasn’t it?

                  Obama should be proud his pals thought so much of his skill, they gave him a boost up.

                • Douglas

                  Dear Mike,
                  Full of shit now! YES!! I’m glad you almost reached my expectations for a response. Nice one.

                  Me defending Hillary or not has nothing to do with this. Neither does Obama’s level of foreign policy experience, or my prefered candidate (Not that i have a say in that at all, i watch from the other side of the world).

                  This is about your candidate Hillary and the double standard this site employs on occasions too many to mention. I’ll say again if it had been Obama telling this story and it turned out to be false you’d be blowing gaskets about his bamboozling! And rightly so. Yet Hillary gets caught and it’s all a conspiracy the breathless blind (not to mention illiterate intellectual) obamatronics are making up to frame her!! What a load.

                  She got caught in a lie about what happened to her in Bosnia. Deal with it. Move on.

              • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

                You mean the occasion about which she said that because of REPORTS of snipers IN THE HILLS they were advised to CUT SHORT a reception ceremony?

                Maybe you think ‘reports’ here meant “Bang! Bang!”

                Of course the same sort of thing may have happened at other times and places; after 80 landings you might conflate a few.

          • StatBabe

            Thie particular episode reminds me of the MSM going after Al Gore in 2000 for talking about flying to a natural disaster with the FEMA director, when, in fact, he flew with the deputy FEMA director.

            Is Hillary Clinton “embellishing” the potential danger of her trip to Bosnia? Probably. Was this trip to Boania “dangerous”? Probably. Recall that Secretary of Commerce Ron Brown, along with some journalists aboard his plane, bit the dust in a flight to another part of the Balkans, Croatia, in 1996. Is it as big a whopper as telling the country, as Barack Obama initially did, that you NEVER heard all that racist rhetoric from your minister of over 20 years–that you were not there when these hateful things were said? NO WAY!

            Do ALL politicians “shade” the truth? The answer to that is rhetorical: Do bears sh*t in the woods?

            There are certainly things that I do not like about Senator Clinton, and I have not forgotten William Safire referring to Mrs. Clinton as a “congenital liar” or Bob Kerrey referring to Bill Clinton as “an unusually good liar” (Bob Kerrey, incidentally, has already endorsed Hillary Clinton for president). But are you prepared to demonstrate to me that Obama is any more truthful? I honestly do not see how, given Obama’s whoppers, thus far, in the campaign!

            This whole thing reminds me of the way the MSM pounced on EVERY SINGLE THING that came out of Al Gore’s mouth and hung a sign on the poor man as a serial exaggerator, at best, and a damn liar, at worst. Whether it was a remark made by Al Gore about Love Story being based on him and Tipper [the male in the story WAS based on Al Gore, according to the author] or Gore’s claim to have introduced legislation that led to the creation of the internet [Gore DID introduce legislation that extended the internet beyond the confines of academia and government to the rest of the world], both of which were largely TRUE, unless you are into splitting hairs. In contrast, the MSM gave the current Liar-In-Chief a complete “pass” throughout 2000, not unlike the “golden boy” treatment that Obama has received since DAY 1!

            I was an Edwards supporter who was prepared to support Obama as a second choice, but the more I read and found out about the man (Obama), the more I was turned off. The straws that broke the camel’s back for me were when the Obama campaign labeled Hillary Clinton a racist for bringing up the role of LBJ in passing civil rights (a role, I might add, that cost the Democratic Party the entire South for over a generation!) and when the Obama campaign labeled Geraldine Ferraro a racist for remarks that were, at worst, ill-advised, and at best, taken completely out of context. Obama himself only compounded the matter when he had the audacity to compare a small snippet of a broader speech made by Geraldine Ferraro to the repeated racist, un-American rantings of his own minister of over 20 years! Anyone who knows a thing about the lady knows that Gerry Ferraro is no racist–I cannot say the same of Jeremiah Wright!

            • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

              Yep, I’ve been thinking about the smear of Gore on his FEMA remark. I don’t think he was embellishing. He had made 17 trips with the FEMA director to different disasters, and this time they happened to go in different planes.

              It looks like Obama’s camp is bringing back that ‘Gore lies’ playbook too. I do hope Gore the Arch-Superdelegate is watching. — After running out the clock to prevent a vote count in Florida. — Signs of desperation, I calls it.

      • chris

        and
        “Tell SusanUnPC et. al to tone it down!”

        pretty presumptive of you to decide who runs the blog here, sir.

        Your high and mighty tone is humorous. Each post I read like this really reveals more about you than the people here. Perhaps you should ‘tone it down’.

      • TeakWoodKite

        Tell SusanUnPC et. al to tone it down!

        Not me, Not in your wildest dreams…good luck with that.
        I wish I had “1/10″th the guts SusanUnpc has.

      • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

        Well, finding out on what landing/s Hillary might well have been advised to cover her head and run for a car, seems well on topic for a military intelligence site.

    • bert

      If the Constitutional crisis is important to you, then getting a Dem elected should be also. If defeating McCain is important then electing a Dem is important too. Obama is toxic and unelectable. Hillary is electable. So Larry and Susan trying to get Hillary elected is the right thing to do. Get off his case.

  • http://joe.com joe

    this blog has simply become unreadable. please send out a public notice when you’re done with primary stuff. i mean i enjoyed hearing about the soprano’s “big pussy” and all.

  • Joe

    Getting criticized by the Clinton campaign is probably the first time that Obama had ever been fired upon, if that even counts.

    • bert

      Accurate.

      So far Obama has run campaigns unopposed by using the tactic of wiping out all opposition by dirty tricks such as challenging petition signatures or urging the press to release charges of spouse abuse.

      The only REAL campaign he has ever run (before this one) was against Bobby Rush and he LOST that election in a largely black district.

      And he is trying to win this campaign by taking some one off the ballot, again, with dirty tricks and with nasry campaign tactics.

      Typical Democratic Chicago Machine type politics.

      The man thinks he is priviledged and should have everything handed to him becasue he is owed it. He is a typical spoiled child and many of his supporters are just playground bullies.

    • Obama spy

      In the Illinois Senate race, his opponents in the primaries pounced on his abortion “ducks,” even sending out rubber duckies with his name on it. His initial Republican opponent sent a team of camerapeople to film him 24/7, desperate to catch something damaging on tape. Alan Keyes (former ambassador) attacked him on experience, present votes, and even claimed that “Jesus Christ would not vote for Barack Obama.” Just a few quick examples.

      All attacks were met with grace. Obama’s handled worse than, say, Rick Lazio and um… that other guy.

      • Mike Howell

        Obama spy –

        “Jesus Christ would not vote for Barack Obama.”

        I finally found something that I can agree with Alan Keyes about!

        The Obamas’ “grace” is supporting “Goddamn America” and every non-reform creep for the Daley machine.

      • SergeiRostov

        Hillary, had to go up against continuous attacks by the MSM and Republican Party and win over not only NYCers, but then go into Republican strongholds in upstate NY – places where they HATED her – and what happened? She turned those Reps into some of her most fervent supporters.

        Someone who can do THAT is just of the kind of someone you want negotiating in the Middle East.

        Obama? Yeah, it was real tough for him to have the backing of the Chicago machine and the mob to go up against first the guy who forced his wife to go to sex clubs (Ryan), and then the guy whom Joe Conason described as “not only tokenism, but last-minute-bottom-of-the-barrel tokenism (Alan Keyes)”, a guy whom no one ever listened to except to find something to laugh at, and so nutty that even Republicans couldn’t vote for him. All he hadto do to win by a landslide was to sit back and let his opponent talk. Yeah, a real tough campaign.

        SR

        • http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

          It’s disgusting to read a long piece on Obama that talks about a meteoric rise (I thought meteors fell, which we’re about to see) with a 70% victory — never mentioning the opponent was Alen Keyes after the viable opponents had imploded. Or a story on the Michigan primary which says “Obama’s name did not even appear on the ballot” instead of “Obama took his name off the ballot.”

        • Beckie

          I completely agree…I am from upstate NY and she has earned her votes here from the Republicans because she doesn’t just leave us out and focus on the majority of the population in NY City. In fact it is her doing that saved a small town near the Canadian border from losing one of the biggest employers in this area, nearly 800 jobs! Now that is making sure you include everyone, you know us “typical white people”. Let’s hear how much Obama has helped the small towns in Illinois during his campaigning! Never mind he is too busy vacationing, wouldn’t want to trouble him…

  • Mel

    Larry, let’s be honest, Obama does have a European stamp in his passport for the one night lay-over in England, fair is fair bud!

    I’d sure like to know why the DNC never penalized Obama for breaking rules and guidelines by filtering ads into Florida when they pledged not to do so!

    They bought a package from cable companies who give the entire spread of the advertisings reach, and they knew full well that Florida was a market they’d be advertising in! This is a violation, and Florida better report it and be treated fairly for it, because Dean says “the rules are the rules”!

    Now Obama can claim all they want to that it was the package, the networks do tailor packages to suit an advertisers needs and requirements, so that excuse doesn’t fly! So is it fair for Dean to allow Obama to break the rules knowingly?

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      You’re right Mel. My bad.

      • Mel

        That is ok Larry, you are allowed a brain fart once in a while, hell Obama has them regularly!

      • Kourian

        He could have read a British newspaper in his British hotel. That would almost qualify as experience abroad too, no?

        • Donald from Hawaii

          Well, I watch all the episodes of Monty Python, Faulty Towers, and Prime Suspect. I’d like to be the Obama administration’s Ambassador to the Court of St. James.

    • Percy

      let’s not forget that Obama broke pledge in MI as well… he sent out a direct mail piece encouraging people to go to the polls and cast a vote against Hillary and to vote uncommitted. I will try to get the source on that, I read it long ago.

    • BernieO

      I wondered about that. I live in NC (anyone know what the plans for the campaign here are)and I never saw the ad.

    • Obama spy

      Because they asked permission and triple-checked with everybody (the DNC, cable companies, Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, and Clinton and Edwards campaigns) to confirm that there was no way to avoid Florida with their national advertising, and triple-checked that such advertising didn’t break any rules. It was legit.

      You can’t tell me that a few commercials are as influential as actual campaign stops?

      • http://! flyarm

        obama spy..

        please enough with the excuses..

        Obama broke his own pledge..and he was the only candidate who had 1 million $$ worth of commericals coming into Florida before our election..not one other candidate did that!! not one!

        I don’t care who he checked with..he took a pledge… he broke his pledge!

        End of story..he was the only candidate that had commericals running in Florida..and he was beat badly!

        • TeakWoodKite

          Thanks for the dollar amount.

  • Strawberrybitch

    …? What was it Obama supporters said about the kitchen sink? This is getting downright pathetic. I almost feel guilty for laughing…um, naaaa.

    • Kourian

      I think the Obamabots have moved from the kitchen sink. Now they’re into the underground plumbing.

      • TeakWoodKite

        Replicators?

        • Patrick Henry

          Roaches..??