“Real Life Card Check Experience” & Wide Open Thread

Just add this to the list that grows hourly of things that Obama and his thugs are doing that are both Anti-American and Un Constitutional. These bullies don’t care about the will of the people, or individual freedoms and rights. Period.

Don’t miss the National Geographic Channel special about OBama closing Gitmo. Except when he isn’t. Or when he is. Or when he’s thinking about closing it. I get confused. My head hurts.

And it’s called the “Freedom of Choice” Act? Huh? What? In what way?

There’s already talk about giving U. S. housing and welfare to those poor innocent jihadists when they come out of Gitmo and no other government will take them (golly, wonder why they wouldn’t want such upstanding citizens?)

We’ve gone completely mad.

Sorry, that was OT, but I go a bit insane myself when you mention certain buzz words.

As for the Freedom of Choice Act…my, oh my, didn’t they learn from GWB. Clean Air, Freedom of Choice…same lie.

Annie, I just heard this is true. That they are going to let the Gitmo people out and give them our money, housing, food, etc. I feel sick. It’s beyond wrong. But, tin foil hat aside, this is all seemingly part of a way bigger, more menacing plan IMO.

There are two sides to this coin. Unions serve a useful purpose in many cases, but they shouldn’t be able to bully and intimidate workers into joining a union that they neither need or want. It’s not a good idea to force people to pay union dues that are going to enrich the union bosses or their favored political candidates.
On the other hand, I know from personal experience that some employers bully and intimidate workers into not forming a union when one is sorely needed. I used to work for Shaw industries here in Georgia. Bob Shaw, who owned the company before Berkshire/Hathaway bought it, had something like 100 carpet mills and spinning mills throughout the southeast. He made it known that if the employees in any of his plants tried to organize, he would just padlock the doors and spread the work among other plants. Many times the working conditions were horrendous, but if an employee was caught even putting union materials on a break table, they lost their job. Not for that reason, of course, but they would find a way to get rid of them.
Neither situation is ideal, and I don’t know what the answer is. But it seems to me that card check is going overboard in the wrong direction.

You know something’s wrong with Card Check when both Al Sharpton and George McGovern oppose it.

Back in the 70′s I had an experience with union organizers in Chicago at the racetrack. They came in and tried to get the grooms to organize into a union. Their argument was that it would make the trainers and the track treat us better. Well, we had free rooms at the track, free medical care from the HPBA, and decent pay and hours.

I worked from 6 am to 11 am then went back for an hour in the afternoon for evening feed and stall pick-out. Days when I ran horses were longer, I stayed with the horse until I took him up to the paddock, walked him back to the barn after the race, washed him off and handed him off to the hotwalker to be cooled down. Then I fed him and went home. Most grooms had three horses and since we ran them about once every ten days, long days were not a terribly frequent occurrence. The union people kept insisting we could do better, and pay union dues, of course. They tried to insist that we do a work stoppage, in other words, let the trainers take care of the horses with no help. Grooms and other backstretch people are there because they love horses and love working with them. We reacted with outrage that they would dare to insist that we neglect our horses. Then we ran them right off the track. End of union organizers.

I don’t like people who come into a workplace and try to mess with good relationships between the management and the workers, especially when they are doing it for their own profit. Stinks of self-interest rather than public interest. Unions were a good thing back when they started, then the laws did not protect the workers as they do now. The days of unions are past, I think. They have devolved into corrupt money-grubbing organizations that do more harm than good to the workers’ situation.

OMG. I heard that too. These people may have been totally innocent when they were rounded up. But they’ve been tortured, subjected to nearly constant humiliation by AMERICAN soldiers, and they’ve been exposed heavily to the influence of extremists in Gitmo with them.

Frankly, I would prefer we not release them into U.S. communities while officials “hope” we can track them. These guys are sure to be far too angry with Americans for us to safely let them wander around our country like that … they’ll end up in some extremist mosque around Detroit, and god knows what they’ll get mixed up in.

May I suggest a more neutral country? How about we pay little Iceland to take them? Peaceful little Iceland needs every dime it can get. And it’s a smaller community where everyone can keep an eye out. And they’d have the benefits that Icelandic citizens get. The climate is not unfamiliar to them, if they come from Afghanistan. And there’d be a lot of ocean between them and the U.S.

My Congresswoman is Carol Shea Porter of NH…she is co sponsoring this bill…yuk.
email her and tell her how bad what she is doing is…don’t hold back.
give examples.

In Iceland we fish with rocks tied to the bottom of our nets. There is no crime there because people know better. A Thor’s hammer is worn around one’s neck not because it is pretty.

My father was the CEO of a company and in the midst of negotiations I was at home alone and got a really nice phone call. I answered the phone and the union boss asked for my father. I said he was out. The asshole then said “you tell your father he’ll be dead by morning.” I personally think that Made in China has a lot to do with Union=Bully.

http://transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot.com/2009/03/southpark-bailout.html

Southpark on the Bailout. You know the Fraud’s in trouble when the Hollywood liberals are making fun of “the plan.”

My husband and I have been in a Union (he was a Shop Steward) and at another time we have owned a company that Union thugs tried to organize. During that period we rotated at hotels, we felt so threatened. We would get anonymous messages that they knew where we were.

We paid higher than Union wages and gave better than Union benefits. The Organizers tried to bribe the employees with our money saying that even though they were well paid The Union could get a lot more. Didn’t work.

When we were Union members we saw thieves and psychos forcibly reinstated when they were justifiably fired. I think Unions are needed in a lot of cases but not in others.

BTW – Anyone notice that Jimmy Hoffa Jr of the Teamsters is involved in reforming the Democratic Primary System? Ha.

Just WOW, you know those Gitmo detainies that want to move to the US when they set them free? it gets even better. WTF? http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/03/welfare_for_freed_gitmo_detain.asp
Welfare for Freed Gitmo Detainees?
Here, from the Associated Press, is a partial account of DNI Dennis Blair’s first press conference today (emphasis mine):

During his news conference, Blair also said the Obama administration is still wrestling with what to do with the remaining 240 detainees at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, which the president has ordered closed.

Some of the detainees, deemed non-threatening, may be released into the United States as free men, Blair confirmed.

That would happen when they can’t be returned to their home countries, because the governments either won’t take them or the U.S. fears they will be abused or tortured. That is the case with 17 Uighurs (WEE’-gurz), Chinese Muslim separatists who were cleared for release from the jail long ago. The U.S. can’t find a country willing to take them, and it will not turn them over to China.

Blair said the former prisoners would have [to] get some sort of assistance to start their new lives in the United States.

“We can’t put them out on the street,” he said.

Four short questions/comments:

(1) Does this mean that the Obama administration is planning on giving some freed Guantanamo detainees a stipend? It sure appears that way. So, not only is the Obama administration planning on freeing some detainees on U.S. soil, it is also going to pay them to live here. Amazing. Who would have thought that we would see the day when detainees who were once labeled enemy combatants would be receiving welfare?

The union came to town this week. They pitched the Gov and he bought into the idea of collective bargaining for the 20,000 state employees. They went to the state senate and finally had to answer some questions. Q: How much will this cost? A: Just $20 per employee per month. Q: Where does that $4.8 million a year go? A: We keep some of it in our DC office and forward the rest to the AFL-CIO.

Considering that we are a state that has been raped by out-of-state land, coal and timber barons such an answer was not popularly received. Did you know our super Wal-Mart has a private plane carry each day’s receipts to Little Rock? Not one penny gets to even sleep overnight in a local bank.

Oh. Yea. Unions. If every penny was kept in a local account to support injured and pregnant workers then it could be a decent collective idea. Even with that promise I doubt that over-the-shoulder voting would be accepted amongst most mountaineers.

Just like turning Cuba’s psycho criminals loose in Miami in the 70s. The place has never been the same. Politicians don’t care what kind of society they create for average people.

The only time I ever worked in a factory (candy factory 40 years ago) two black women took each of us individually into a closed room and threatened us if we didn’t join the union. I was only staying for two months and they still told me they’d beat me up if I didn’t join. It gave me a different perspective on downtrodden blacks and the unions. I still believe that we must have unions but they need to behave differently.

FLDem: unfortunately, the labor laws that were hard won in the early twentieth century have all been revoked by Reagan and the two Bushes. Unions are an example of for every good thing some people will figure out how to abuse it selfishly.

This is one of the things what makes me really worry about the state of our country. The constant manipulation and coercion to get an end result. And what Cuomo is doing with the AIG execs to get the bonuses back is just as unsettling. No matter how you feel about these guys getting the bonuses, when someone uses threat and bullying, we are like a lawless country. What upsets me most is that people seem to shrug it off. How can this be? When is this EVER acceptable?!

Remember Biden said there would be a major terrorist event within the first six months of the administration. The best way to ensure that is to let go a bunch of tortured and humiliated, accused falsely or not, people.

I feel the same way about unions. They are a wonderful tool for giving clout to the worker, but there is WAY too much corruption, coercion, and abuse of power in their hierarchies. I’ve seen it, my family members have seen it.

Heck, we all saw it going on at the Nevada primary this past year.

Management does often exploit the workers if you give them a chance. But the solution is not yet another group taking over the bullying and exploitation in the name of “helping” them.

As long as this is an Open Thread, and since I must leave, I note the Senate passage of the National Service Program, the O’s civilian army. What I want to know is who was smart enough, brave enough to remove the word “mandatory” from the bill?

I think the idea of unions is good, but the reality of them has become something we can do without for now. I support in-house unions which would be the collective bargaining of the workers of that particular business without the dues and other interference from the national unions. Many of the people I know in business couldn’t stay in business if they had to pay union wages. They do pay as well as the business allows, however, and have decent benefits. And unions don’t take into consideration many factors that affect the need for wage levels. For instance, where I live the cost of living is much lower than other parts of the country, so one can live well on much lower pay. If the businesses here were forced to pay union wages, they would go out of business, and it would be stupid to ask them to since union pay scale isn’t needed for a good lifestyle here. By good I mean pay the mortgage, eat, pay utility bills and have something left over for savings and vacations. You don’t need unions to guarantee that, the law should cover it and if it doesn’t, we should make sure it does.

Yes, I’d like to know what person removed the mandatory clause as well. I’d like to thank them

I was a labor major in college (B.A., Worker Advocacy and Labor Law) and so, I could write volumes about this issue. But let me just respond to one issue you raise in opposition to unions. You say, laws now protect workers, making unions unnecessary. Okay, let’s say, your employer fires you in violation of the law. (And let’s assume, you want your job back.) You can hire a lawyer, file a lawsuit, file a lawsuit (depending on the violation you allege, you might have to file a complaint with the appropriate state or federal agency, first, and await their decision before proceeding to court); and, assuming you win, wait another few years for the appeal to be heard. Or, you can grieve the discharge as a violation of the collective bargaining agreement, represented by union officials or attorneys, paid for by union dues, and go through expedited grievance and arbitration. You will have a decision in days. (Private sector employees in most states are employees at will, and can be fired without cause. Union contracts usually contain clauses that require any discharges to be for cause. Again, this means, the employee has job security, as long as the employer documents he is doing his job.)

Finally, unions are corrupt because members who are not do not attend union meetings or run for union office. (Just like politics in general.)

I love this, Eastan! Too bad we don’t have an Icelandic consciousness.

I agree with Susan. If, in fact, there were many rounded up unfairly, unjustly and thrown into Gitmo, then these people are hardly going to be well-disposed towards the US or her government. “Hoping” isn’t good enough because the sort of hope these folks [0bama's team] have been selling has turned out to be bogus.

I want the American public’s security to come first. If 0bama and his people are so-o-o sensitive about this issue, let them take a few ex-Gitmo people in. Move a few into the White House and chum with the inner circle. Let Emmanuel and Axelrod and Biden put a few up. Pelosi and Reid, too. Oh, and please, add Dodd to the list. Ask Michelle to put down a few extra place settings at the table. I’m sure she’d be open to the idea.

It’s easy to do the PR speak until it affects you and the ones you care about.

Just my humble opinion. But I’d like to see generosity and brotherly love coming from the top. Just for once! Otherwise, it doesn’t mean squat.

My half sister and her mother lived in Miami when Castro cut his criminals loose on us. They were raped, beated and robbed by three of them in a home invasion. My sister was never the same, and her mother died shortly after. I’m sure Obama doesn’t care about what happens to us.

Before you go and berate the unions, think about the overtime check you get. Unions got you that. Think about the 40 hour work week you enjoy while out on the lake in your boat. Unions got you that. Think about how safe you are in the work place. Unions got you that. Notice, there are no children on the shop floor. Yes, unions got you that also.

Before people were allowed to unionize, children, as young as 12, worked along side adults in sweat shop conditions,six days a week, twelve to fourteen hours a day for wages that could barely support a family of three.

Deaths on the job were common. Injured workers were fired.

I won’t even discuss the corrupt company stores that deducted ridiculous amounts of money for rancid food and cheap products.

Unions changed all of that. Unions gave surpressed workers dignity as well as safe working conditions and fair wages.

So when I here people spouting off about how unions have hurt America, I ask them how many hours a week they work, how many days a week, and do they get sick pay, overtime pay or vacation pay? Thank the Unions.

No one is saying that unions are a bad thing. The problem is what they have evolved into. When they were working men who banded together to get fair wages and hours they were on the side of the angels. These days they have devolved into big top-heavy organizations which have had ties to organized crime, among other things. They have come a long way from the days of Joe Hill and Mother Jones, and the end product isn’t anything like what they envisioned. I doubt either one of them would have wanted people threatened to make them join the union. After all, that’s how the bosses tried to keep people from forming them in the first place.

LOL Ewwwwww that was gross!

Mark Fiore has a new animation about the economy – he uses frogs, but no blood!

http://www.markfiore.com

It’s the newest animation, the title has the word “leverage” in it (sorry, can’t remember exact title)

I don’t know if this is true, but I heard that Pelosi can just put it back in when it goes back to the House.

And we know they don’t necessarily read when they sign off on…

Since this is a WIDE OPEN thread and I know alot of people here are dog owners/lovers, I wanted to share something I just remeberred watching Dog down and a doggie having surgery.
Did you know there are dog Blood banks, like the red cross for humans? They work differently all over, but most large vet hospitals or schools have them, since more dogs have surgery these days. We live close to Philly and they actually have a blood mobile that you can call and have a donor drive at your house, you pick a day and spread the word and they park the moblle at your house for about 4 hours. A friend of ours has a drive once a year to give back because their dog had surgery and used blood. It is easy and the dogs didn’t seem to mind and got treats and a bag of food ect and http://www.vet.upenn.edu/RyanHospital/SpecialtyCareServices/BloodBank/AnimalBloodmobile.aspx

When I just googled it I found a pretty good article about the requiremnts to donate as well as a list of some of the centers that take Dog blood donations http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art32483.asp

The Senate confirmed Tim Geithner, who did not pay his federal taxes, to the position of Secretary of the Treasury. So, should we dissolve cabinet positions, along with Congress?

The National Labor Relations Board (“NLRB”) obtained $70m and reinstated 1,564 workers in 2008.

http://www.lawatwork.com/news/2008/11/02/nlrb_obtained_70_million_and_reinstated_1564.html