Michigan and Florida Must Be Counted, Speaker Pelosi [Critical ACTION Update]

Florida chose not to re-vote, not the DNC. Both states were warned explicitly what would happen if they violated the rules – just as they were told the possible remedy (and the only one that makes sense) – an even apportioning of delegate votes to the nominees.

If anyone has made decisions to “disenfranchise” voters it’s the party leadership in those states who willfully chose to not follow the national rules.

Having the big bucks donors threaten to hold back funding is a direct threat to the entire party and all the Superdelegates and those running for office in 2008. Less money means less aid for dems trying to hold onto the majority and is nothing more than rank extortion. If it was a group of Obama backers doing the same thing, Hillary’s supporters would have a completely different take on it

Ahh…, I should have taken picture of my can. I sent it 2 days ago. Maybe I can send some more and take picture.

Why did Obama advertise in Florida? Why did he knowingly violate the pledge he and others made last year not to campaign in the state? Why did he knowingly violate the pledge at least two times?

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080123/NEWS/801230668/1017/NEWS0501

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

Oh hell…is he back again?

Come on, that’s a bit of a stretch don’t you think?

It was a national ad buy w/ the networks. The ad running on florida station was no more “campaigning” than Hillary’s visit the night before.

Hillary did not visit Florida until the polls closed. And if you are referring to a fundraiser, the candidates were allowed to attend closed fundraisers. But Hillary did not campaign until at least an hour after the polls closed. Obama, on the other hand, presided over a press conference and aired television commercials, thereby violating the pledge on at least two occasions.

I recommend you read and reread the articles I cite until their full import and significance is comprehended.

in the very article you cite, it’s noted that the Obama campaign asked the media buys to not run the ad.

Again – neither candidate campaigned in the state.

but he ran the ad nonetheless. in other words, he willfully violated the pledge.

Send it directly to my e-mail. Thanks, Joey. I’ll add it to the story.

Florida was the only state that has evicted the paperless electronic voting machines, but when that bill came up in their legislature, the Republicans attached a poison pill amendment that moved the primary forward, in violation of the DNC warnings, so Florida Democrats are being punished for a Republican dirty trick, and Howard Dean and his merry band of Democratic Party demolition experts are helping the Republicans carry out this trick. Kevin, I’ve read and re-read that letter in Larry’s post above, and I don’t see any threatening language at all, though one may imagine such language simply due to the fact that the letter casually mentioned that the writers “have been strong supporters of the DCCC”, but the letter is pretty clear and non-threatening. However, Obama supporters fancy themselves as mind readers, so you may see threats or hear dog whistles or imagine holograms where persons obviosly lacking your superior perception may miss them.

I rather see 4 years of McCain than 8 of Clinton. Dont like to see a democRAT kissing a republican ass, while putting down a real Democrat. Dont like to see a spoiled brat mussele her way regardless of the consequences.

Hopefully it will be the end of her political carrer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, that was Susan’s post.

If Obama gets the Democratic nomination, you’ll get your wish.

I just love to see a poster with a true command of the English language like yourself.

First off, the only Democrat who has been kissing Republican ass my friend has been dear old Obama with his “Democrat for a Day” voter drives.

Lest you also forget, after Hillary’s wins in Ohio and Texas, Obama called John McCain that very night and said he was looking forward to running against him (McCain) in the fall. That is not only presumptuous it is also the height of “Republican ass kissy-ness”

To stay on the topic of ass, since it seems you are obsessed with it as a metaphor, the only one who is going to get his ass handed to him in a general election matchup would be Obama. But, that is not going to happen because too many people of character and substance in this country, and on this blog, will not let that happen. DON’T TREAD ON ME

Seems I will get my wish no matter what. THANK YOU HILLARY!!!

My sentiments exactly.

I don’t even know why anyone responds. All Kevin has are shallow talking points.

Hey Cruz:

mussele

Are you going for mussels or muesli?
You see the first is a mollusk and the latter is a German breakfast cereal.

Or was it simply you were typing too fast on your Blackberry. Are you all thumbs? Your less than sound arguments seem to confirm that!

Seems I will get my wish no matter what. THANK YOU HILLARY!!!

NO, you don’t.

But there are some other half assed ops around the place, you ‘ll fit right in, the “troll without a clue” club, or meow, I call them, anyway, you don’t get your wish, ever, because of your inability to calculate, or understand, contingencies.

I’d explain it to you, but you wouldn’t get it, anyway.

Your type never does, just think Bush, Cheney, and Iraq.

I’m with eurogirl, do you think we would put the people we love in the hands of that man, all of you are sadly mistaken! I will actively, and with pleasure, campaign against him in the GE.

What do you mean that Florida chose not to re-vote?? When was that actual question posed to the 1.7 million Democratic voters? Honestly, the voters there must feel like children in a horrible custody battle. All the silly adults keep trying to decide what’s best for them (translation, what’s best for the adults)—instead of letting the mature, intelligent voters decide their own fate. If I were a resident of Florida, I would vote out every single politician that tried to flimflam me out of my voting right—that includes Congressional men and women of both parties who stood quietly by on the sidelines of this debacle without uttering a single word of protest in their constituents’ defense.

And if Pelosi and Reid think it’s okay to disenfranchise voters, how about stripping them of their voting rights in the House and Senate. As I recall, Reid didn’t like it too much when the nuclear option was threatened and the Senate Dems. no longer had a voice.

nonsense he advertised 1.3 million $$ in the Fla buy..more than most of the republicans! and no other dem candidate bought Fla ads ..non..not one can you read that..zilch..nada,,none of the other dem candidates did that!

ahh and darlin..he did not have to make that buy go into Fla..he did it because he wanted to cheat the others!

period!

To Rob ..you are 100% correct thank you for posting that..i have posted the same many times over for that little egg head Kevin..seems he has nothing but yolk in his head..certainly no brains as i have posted the same to him over and over again..and to their tag team of trolls.

Why do Obama supporters seem just as stupid as the bushbots did? same m.o…same bullshit …over & over and over again..they must have taken bush sheeple 101 in college!!..if they made it to college!!

fly

Silver

“mature, intelligent voters decide their own fate”

ahhh! you hit the nail on the head! mature adult voters ha! Voting is honor and a privelege. Not a game of chutes and ladders!

I am afraid that having a democrat for a president is becoming just a distant dream. DNC have messed with the wrong people, this has been a sham from the get go. Now the DNC, Obama and his following will have to pay the price for losing this election, yet again, to the repubs. I repeat: Obama will never be president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A real Democrat?
according cruz del sur
a real Democrat is someone that;

Thinks Reagan was a man ahead of his time.
Believes that his preacher can be derogatory towards people of every ethnicity but militant AA’s.
Participate in influence peddling, kick backs and knowingly assists in violations of RICO statutes.
Profit at the expense of poor people left without heat or running water in his state senate district.
Assist in the escape of a wanted fugitive from Iraqi justice.
Violate Civil Rights by actively preventing two states from voting.
Commit violations of the Voting Rights Act by barring members of other candidates from voting in Caucuses.
Using neo-cons in his campaign…
Make a statement on Larry King that he wants Bush I people in his cabinet.
Plagerize; then claim words matter.
Lie repeatedly on national TV.

Hell of wish your making buddy!

Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! cruz del sur should tell you something about me. Or do you think that Latinos are naturally “english speaking”?????

Let me repeat that Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

And what about the Clintons hanging out with someone who aided and abetted a terrorist who commited what was then called the worst terrorist act in the US? Does that make you feel better??

Voting is honor and a privelege constitutional right.

With respect Paula.

It will be an honor and a privelege to cast my vote for Senator Clinton in the GE.

No pendeja. Soy Latino. Any problem with that?

Texas: can you tell me who got 98, and who trailed with 94. Just asking

wrong still. as noted in the article(s) – and confirmed by CNN and MSNBC (look it up yourselves) – the decision to run the ads in FLA despite the request not to was theirs. Now… if the networks or lying or the Obama campaign is lying it seems to me, that would’ve come out long before now don’t you think?

Don’t you think the Clinton campaign would’ve cried foul and made sure everyone knew that Obama had broken the rules… beyond the half hearted complaints? Seriously… do you think she’d let ammunition like that just go unused?

While the politics is interesting, many of us would really be interested in your thoughts on the devolving situation in Iraq, which is looking more and more like the late days of the Vietnam war. How much longer will the green zone last?

Pelosi’s earlier comments in “The Hill” accurately reflect the intent of the superdelegates role. I’ve read several accounts of Dems who were on the committee for the creation of the superdelegates, and that is exactly why they were created: if a candidate does not reach the delegate minimum, it’s up to the superdelegates to assess the situation using all those criteria. Otherwise, why wouldn’t they have just created principle that the person who has the most delegates at the end of the primary season is the nominee? It makes no sense. How can we take her seriously if she willfully misinterprets their intent, shifting her position only 10 days later? The Dem leaders are so lame…

funny considering neither of you have been able to successfully disprove any of my points or back up the claims you’ve made and I challenged.

Come on guys – don’t be so lazy… do you think the GOP is going to take it easy? If you’re going to make a claim/accusation then build a case.

Anyway – thanx for the exchange.

“Lie repeatedly on national TV” (I did not have sex with that woman)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/18/politics/uwire/main3949013.shtml

Sniper fire!runnnnnnnnnnn

One question for all of the Clinton supporters here:

If Hillary Clinton cares so much about not “disenfranchising” the voters of Florida and Michigan, why didn’t she defend them when they were having their delegations stripped late last year?

OK, MAYBE IT IS TIME TO FACE THE FACT THAT THE DEM STRATEGY IS TO HAVE A PUB PRESIDING WHEN THE CRAP HITS THE FAN, CHICKENS COME HOME TO ROOST, BLOWBACK ARRIVES, WE REAP THE WHIRLWIND, if you get my meaning.

Got my movie KITE RUNNER today..

Gonna watch it tonight..Listening to the Jonathan Livengston seagull soundtrack Now..
You can find the whole thing on YouTube..

“Voting is honor and a privelege constitutional right.”

Voting in a party primary actually is not a constitutional right.

“Obama and his following will have to pay the price for losing this election, yet again, to the repubs. I repeat: Obama will never be president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

If Obama is the nominee, will you be voting for him? Because if you don’t, you would actually bear some of the blame for his “losing the election”, and certainly you would be paying the price–along with the rest of us.

“That is not only presumptuous it is also the height of “Republican ass kissy-ness””

It’s actually called class.

Wow – I’d almost forgotten the book, let alone the movie. Thanks for the reminder.

Don’t feed the trolls.

Well, it isn’t the first time the Obama campaign have weaseled their way out of mis-statements and falsehoods.

While it might have been an advertising “package deal,” someone over at camp Obama should have read the fine print, and seen that they were breaking the rules. If team Obama isn’t smart enough to get used by the advertisement agency, then how are they smart enough to run the executive branch of government?

Questions Surround Obama’s Candidacy:
http://questionbarackobama.blogspot.com

First I am not a troll ( I went on the record several times saying that I would not vote for either of the dems [and would never vote for a republican]) and 2, I do not take hand outs.

It is not about FEEEEEEElings cruz del sur. How that trickle down hope workin for ya?

Ou ow oh; Please tell me who that person was?

Clintons hanging out with someone who aided and abetted a terrorist who commited what was then called the worst terrorist act in the US?

It wasn’t her so much, but one of her now campaign staffers… I want to say Icke, but I know that’s not it who as a superdelegate voted when the DNC voted to figure out how to deal w/ Michigan and Florida. If anything – she wants those votes (now).

Apparently Coward Dean doesn’t think Republicans in Red States will be voting in November. If they all stay home, that gives all those red states to Jesus Obama. Say hello to the next McGovern embarrassment, which is why they started the Super Delegate idea to begin with: to thwart losers like Obama from being the candidate. They can spin it all they want but that IS the purpose of the Super Delegates. If they choose to forget about it, then they can just find themselves getting their butts major whipped into the next century. It won’t bother me because I will be an Independent by then. I am fed up with this party. They don’t represent me.

As for poor Nancy, she’s green. I’ve seen the look before. Why not meeeeeeeeee instead of herrrrrrrrrr???

If Obama is the nominee, will you be voting for him? Because if you don’t, you would actually bear some of the blame for his “losing the election”, and certainly you would be paying the price–along with the rest of us.

I would rather see a 100 year war that Obama as President, and I am not kidding. I’m clearly one of that 28%. In fact, I was polled.

“I would rather see a 100 year war that Obama as President, and I am not kidding.”

Words fail me…

I think you’re right that it was Ickes who helped approve the penalty.

How did you find me with all the “lightbulbs” around here?

Yea!!!

Enjoy it.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/092106.html

Clinto and Bush are doing buisness together. How aout them apples?

Florida was the only state that has evicted the paperless electronic voting machines, but when that bill came up in their legislature, the Republicans attached a poison pill amendment that moved the primary forward, in violation of the DNC warnings, so Florida Democrats are being punished for a Republican dirty trick, and Howard Dean and his merry band of Democratic Party demolition experts are helping the Republicans carry out this trick.

Rob Gard you are so right above! Home Alone Kevin’s cutting and pasting from BO’s Tiger Beat fan club doesn’t make “I’d give it a 10″ or anything else – a fact.

Kevin – your mother’s calling you! And don’t run with those scissors!

I also get real tired of bouncing around in the back of the democratic turnip truck. I think the party needs to start wooing Dems.

It is absolutely insane to even consider disenfranchising 2 million people. I can just see the ads McCain will run, “Obama thought troops and veterans in Michigan and Florida were good enough to serve their country but not good enough to vote in an election.”

Then they’ll run that sound bite from Rev Wright and video of Michelle saying how she’s never been proud of her country. Just about that time, Obama should get his subpeona for the Rezko trial. This is just going to get embarassing.

DING DING…Some of will just go on with our lives “in the peaceful ways we can”. It will the first time since gaining the age of majority, that I will not cast a vote for the president if the Dem Nominee is Senator Obama.

In fact I will do everything I can think of to ensure he is not elected; oh wait, that is not necessary. Senator Obama, has and will continue to do that all on his own. I’m clearly one of that 28%, that has not been polled!

But if you want to talk about Senator Obama’s other short comings…

We’ve noticed. Repeatedly.

It’s hard for me to understand why everyone is applauding 17 plutocrats for threatening the Democratic Party with a withholding of funds, if it doesn’t abandon the voters and choose the nominee by unelected superdelegates.

With friends like these…

Don’t feed the trolls.

I scroll right past their b.s.

Eventually the trolls start talking to each other.

Someone on Taylor Marsh suggested that those of us who are demanding that the FL and MI votes count to dip our finger in PURPLE ink.

That’s another great idea — dip fingers — photography purple finger and send to DNC.

” in other words, he willfully violated the pledge.”

More like, in your words.

Q.. How Many Bureaucrats Does it take to change a Light Bulb..??

A> TWO..One to Assure that everything Possible is Being Done..While the other One Screws the Bulb into a Toilet Seat..

Let me be blunt: what the fuck you know about me?

“Bush Shields Dad on Chile Terrorism”

Six years ago, near the end of the Clinton administration, an FBI team reviewed new evidence that had become available in the case and recommended the indictment of Pinochet. But the final decision was left to the incoming Bush administration, which has failed to act while also withholding relevant documents from Chilean investigators.

Next.

Hey Mike,

Would you rather a 100 year war than Obama as President?

Voting is a constitutionally protected right.

Send the photos to George W.–he loves those photos.

I might have missed something, but where in these polls does it show Hillary doing better than Obama against McCain? For every matchup against McCain, Obama’s numbers are, at worst, tied, or in many cases better than Hillary’s.

Someone on Taylor Marsh suggested that those of us who are demanding that the FL and MI votes count to dip our finger in PURPLE ink.

Yeah – great idea. That’s such a powerful image for how well things worked out in Iraq.

As a practical matter this war In Iraq can not be sustained for 1 year, never mind 100.

dude, you can’t argue with these people. i came in here for a rational conversation recently and was called a troll and an enemy because i caucused for Obama in WA state. it’s no use. go elsewhere. these people are sick.

you missed this: a crime that then-CIA Director George H.W. Bush appears to have tolerated and then helped cover-up.

Next

“Voting is a constitutionally protected right.”

Voting in a party primary is not a constitutionally protected right. If it was, Sen. Nelson would have won his lawsuit.

http://www.topix.com/forum/us-senate/bill-nelson/T0NSKAHR5536IP5A0

A political party is allowed to define how its selects its nominee–a very different thing than the constitutional right to vote for the nominees of different parties.

For instance, Virginia’s GOP currently selects the nominees for its election through state convention, rather than primary.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/1007/Virginia_GOP_opts_to_nominate_by_convention.html

That means 85 people choose who gets to run for the Senate, the Governor, etc.

I don’t think it’s fair, but that’s how it is. And the reason is because there is no constitutionally protected franchise for voting in a party’s primary.

I like to think the presence of opposing views is healthy for them, and myself. I am obviously a glutton for punishment!

Cleanup, Aisle 6.

http://people-press.org/reports/questionnaires/407.pdf

Obama ahead by 10 against Hillary nationally in latest Pew.

By the way, I am not talking about Pinochet. I am refering to Michael Townsley, who actually planted the bomb, and was able to get away thanks to the false leads that Bush had droped through Newsweek.

As for Clinton, he had Reno keep the Pinochet indicment locked. And W also pardoned all those responsible right before 9-11.

Crickets, Will.

Crickets.

See, that will draw a smile from me.

truthteller2007, that’s right, he could have opted out a region in the country (FL & some stated that didn’t have a primary then)
And besides he didn’t need to do a national buy out then; he had time after FL and before super-tuesday.
So much for his “argument” that FL voters didn’t know him….

Has anyone seen the level to which MoveOn has dive in?
They are pathetic …

Move On’s False Petition
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/27/174632/712

yup.

it’s boring round here. talk to y’all later!

Uhhh Andy — what happens if Obama wins both the popular vote and the delegate vote?

Because that’s what’s happening.

And Pelosi knows it.

Mucho odio, mucho odio….no es bueno para la salud.

That was for “cruz del sur” : de donde eres?

Don’t come back anytime soon.

No pendeja.

Ehhh; come down man.

Your posts follow a specific syntactic pattern, despite the vernacular of Spanish you’re using.

In addition, the CONTENT of your trolls follow a specific pattern also, what would be called :”talking points” if you were a pundit on the Sunday TV talk circuit. Someone told you to scuttle in a specific manner, and you are.

Pretty easy to pick out across the board.

Your posts also follow a given pattern seen across different blogs, and your voice, your literary voice, is identifiable.

It’s like reading, oh, Eric Segal, (perhaps one of the worst writers in American literature, ever), in both Spanish, and English.

Do you understand that?

it has been my longstanding thought that if anyone should be “punished” for violating the “rules” of the DNC, it should be the superdelegates who made the decisions about FL abd MI, and not the voters who got themselves out to vote in any case, even under the uncertainty that their votes may not be counted.

So, one suggestion: count the popular votes in both states, seat the delegates, but give the supers only half a vote. Or something like that.

cruz del sur:

Can you send a link to this/ where is this documented?

As for Clinton, he had Reno keep the Pinochet indicment locked.

Who are you refering to? For Clintons
(not Bush)

Again please send links to proper documentation/ articles.

Clintons hanging out with someone who aided and abetted a terrorist who commited what was then called the worst terrorist act in the US?

Who pardoned who?

What is title of the artical?

Michael V. Townley?

By that I mean what could be categorized as responding to the perceptual solicitations of a world outside the description we have learned to call reality.

That one?

Oh Sherlock tell me more…

Who is Michael V Townley? What are you talking about???

First quotation I read it somewhere. Need a link? put your fingers to work. Second quotation, all ready put it. http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/092106.html

No es odio. No me gusta que una pendeja quiera degradarme porque mi ingles no es perfecto. implemente la puse en su lugar.

Finally, I just saw KEITH OLBERMAN (I know it is a sin here to mention his name) showing Clinton asking democrats not to vote for McCain.

She got my standing ovation.

Night night all.

Cheshire Cat: If I were looking for a white rabbit, I’d ask the Mad Hatter.
Alice: The Mad Hatter? Oh, no no no…
Cheshire Cat: Or, you could ask the March Hare, in that direction.
Alice: Oh, thank you. I think I’ll see him…
Cheshire Cat: Of course, he’s mad, too.
Alice: But I don’t want to go among mad people.
Cheshire Cat: Oh, you can’t help that. Most everyone’s mad here.
[Laughs maniacally; starts to disappear]
Obama Cat: You may have noticed that I’m not all there myself.

cruz del sur
Now one is denigrating you because of your laungauge skills.

Oh well Will, considering this primary season is not over, and neither Obama nor Clinton have the requisite number of delegate votes to outright garner the Democratic nomination, it was indeed presumptuous for Obama to tell McCain, “Hey man, it’s you and me”.

I see you cannot provide any counter-argument to the fact that Obama woos Republican’s to vote for him in the primary that certainly will not be casting a vote for him in a GE lineup. I think you can see his support among so-called independents has taken a hit!

Who exactly is picking our candidate Will? Because if you look at just registered Democrat’s Hillary leads. 62% of Democrat’s (Obama and Clinton Supporters alike) believe that the primary season should be allowed to play out! Which means dear Will, Obama has not shorn this thing up and you know, as well as I, had it been Clinton, and not Obama that made those “congratulatory” comments to McCain, you Obama supporters would have been likes flies on shit!

ERROR [Like flies on shit!]

First quotation I read it somewhere. Need a link? put your fingers to work.

That’s what I thought… you have no clue, eh?

As for your second link I asked you again b/c no-where in that article it says anything about what you claim.
That article is about Bush father, and the policies of previous Rep.Adm. on Latin America in the seventies I am very well aware of…….

But nothing on what you say: “Clintons hanging out with someone who aided and abetted a terrorist who commited what was then called the worst terrorist act in the US?”

That’s quite a shit-load.

The only mention of Clinton at all is:

Six years ago, near the end of the Clinton administration, an FBI team reviewed new evidence that had become available in the case and recommended the indictment of Pinochet. But the final decision was left to the incoming Bush administration, which has failed to act while also withholding relevant documents from Chilean investigators.

So I ask you again, since what are you talking about?

cruz del sur:

What does this have to do with the Clintons?

to Will who said..

If Obama is the nominee, will you be voting for him? Because if you don’t, you would actually bear some of the blame for his “losing the election”, and certainly you would be paying the price–along with the rest of us.

from Fly who says..the hell i will , Obama decided to not count my vote along with H. Dean and D. Brazile, and Pelosi..

I have sent them ample warning, if you do not count my vote and seat my county delegates, i will not be able to Vote in Nov..i will not be able to vote because my consience will not allow it nor will my democratic principles allow me to vote.

I have told them in no uncertain terms, through direct letters, phone calls, replies to DNC surveys, and private emails , and Phone calls.

They know what the terms are for Fla demodcrats, if they chose to not count our votes, they do it at their own peril.

It will be all their own doing when they lose!

in response to Cruz del Sur’s “what do you know about me?”
You can’t spell.

First I am not a troll ( I went on the record several times saying that I would not vote for either of the dems [and would never vote for a republican]) and 2, I do not take hand outs.

Well then..since you have absolutely nothing to add to the discussion and you are not even going to vote anyway..why are you here?
Anyone that doesn’t vote is politically useless and lazy. What are you a fence sitter or a peanut gallery contestant?
I’d rather you pick a party or someone to back than just come here and whine about politics. You’ve lost my respect pal now move along.

Read again (quote Eurogirl): “I just love to see a poster with a true command of the English language like yourself.”

See you still don’t know shit about me. I CAN spell in Spanish, I do have some trouble in English, And I get along in Portuguese.

Can you even come close??????????????