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Florida and Michigan Redux

By dcmediagirl on March 28, 2008 at 1:13 PM in Barack Obama, Current Affairs, Democrats, Florida, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Media, Michigan

OK, so it’s been good sport watching the pearl-clutching, brawling and formation of circular firing squads over this Florida/Michigan delegate debacle. But now it’s time to get down to brass tacks.
Everything related to this mess has been a disgrace and those with direct involvement should be beaten with a stick. The legislators who dissed the DNC by flouting the rules. The DNC for not dealing with this inevitable trainwreck earlier. The craven Democratic operatives who are just now waking up to the awful repercussions if those delegates are not committed before the Denver convention and seated with their counterparts from the remaining 48 states and the territories.

There are so many galling elements to this story that it’s hard to begin, but I think a good place to start is with Howard Dean and his minions at party headquarters. I know some of you have taken me to task for being too critical of the DNC and would prefer to lay all the blame on the states, but Dean can’t and shouldn’t be given a pass.

Things are so bad and have spiraled so out of control that we are forced to look to the Republicans, of all people, for guidance on how to discipline unruly local pols who want to get cute with the national party while still enfranchising the voters. Sensible people got together at the RNC and decided to split the baby: Michigan and Florida (and a few other states as well) would be punished for jumping the line by having their delegate pool stripped by half. That way a message was sent but delegations from those states would still be nicely committed and seated before their convention in Minneapolis-St. Paul, home of the Larry Craig Memorial Stall, large enough to accomodate a wide stance.

The fact that Howard Dean would actually try to change the subject by whining to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid that the extended primary was “hurting” the Democratic party, immense public interest and large voter turnout notwithstanding, is simply unbelievable, as is his obvious frustration with Hillary Clinton for not having the grace to step aside to allow the Barack Obama coronation to take place. I never realized before now that the Democratic party had such royalist tendencies. You learn something new every day.

I thought I’d seen some unbelievable things in my time, but watching a national party that got royally screwed out of a victory in 2000 because of, yes, the Florida vote now exhibiting such a cavalier attitude towards “having every vote count” is infuriating. Maybe all this is happening because of bullheadedness, or ego, or pride. Whatever. I understand the DNC’s irritation with these rogue states, but something has to happen. If Dean thinks the party is suffering because the damned voters haven’t delivered a presumptive nominee yet, just wait until a gigantic brawl breaks out on the convention floor as bitter Floridians and Michiganers (is that the right term?) duke it out with DNC officials. The press is salivating in anticipation (and I admit I pray for fisticuffs. Conventions are so homogenized and content-free that it’s about time we had some action).

And while we’re analyzing colossal Democratic party fuckups, the genius who came up with the proportional delegate apportionment system should also be beaten soundly.

Democrats have long been known to be the party that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. I was hoping it would be different this time around. I guess I was wrong.

http://thehorizontalworld.blogspot.com/ Mary Jo Kopechne

Well, I live in Denver and I know for a fact that the police are already training for the rioting they expect here in August.

That said, the problem with the DNC is their (I quit the party last week in protest to their not seating FL and MI delegates) poor leadership. I’m embarrassed by them, as any self-respecting adult should be.

Read Bud White’s “It’s Either President Clinton or It’s President McCain.”
He nails it.

http://noratings.blogspot.com/

dcmediagirl

Go rioters go, I say. Maybe having those pictures beamed all over the world will finally force Democratic party “leaders” to take the “let every vote count” mantra seriously.
lilytoo

You know the GOP will be sending pros in to start riots whoever wins this…that’s already set up. Most likely the hanging chad people from 2000 who the press pretended were members of the public.

People! The Dems CANNOT be the party that throw votes. This is an outrage!
Andy

Mary Jo Kopechne:

That said, the problem with the DNC is their … poor leadership. I’m embarrassed by them, as any self-respecting adult should be.

Me too; it is depressing to have these people as “leaders” of the DNC. And Lehay and Dodd today parroting Obama’s line is pathetic…

Headlines: “Pelosi is not backing down” (re. the letter sby Clinton backers). Pelosi should be in Obama’s and MoveOn.org’s payroll
Pelosi is hopeless….
Nellie

Excellent Source of Information – Most surprised that Markos stopped drinking the Bama-Aide long enough to be come momentarily logical and sane.

adel

People who live in Michigan or who come from Michigan are called Michiganians, Michiganders or Michiganites.
Iloqium

You are right on, Larry. Nicely written.

The responsibility lays firmly on Dean’s shoulders, and instead of accepting responsibility and coming to a democratic decision that is true and fair, he tried to deflect blame and then whine about it on national television.

I felt it was a mistake when Dean became the leader of the DNC – and could not put my finger on it at the time of why I felt this way…but I guess it was intuition.

The other troubling part is Dean’s 25 loyalists that he appointed to the credential committee, further tipping the scales toward The Precious One.

Is Dean a democrate or should he start a new party called the “socialists” and pursue his ego and marxist theories there?
http://thehorizontalworld.blogspot.com/ Mary Jo Kopechne

Bud White’s piece is on mydd-RECOMMEND IT

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/28/13939/3427

The Obamatwits are going ballistic over it.
DCDemocrat

Over and over, I see complaints that Hillary’s nomination would result in doubts about her legitimacy among Obama’s supporters, such as African Americans, because of commentators presume he will lead among pledged delegates. But I think the Democratic Party should be just as worried about questions of Obama’s legitimacy if they have to freeze Michigan and Florida out of the race to make it possible for Obama to secure the nomination. They really are asking for a peck of trouble if we Clintonistas are not happy with their solutions.
Terry

Well said, dcmediagirl. There are plenty of beatings to mete out. I am a Florida resident, and I am FURIOUS, as is every other Floridian I know, Republican and Democrat. I have written and called the DNC and Dean in particular several times – not one reply. It is offensive, and Florida Democrats well remember this shabby treatment, I promise.

And if silently letting millions of voters not have a say in the process is what Obama means by a new style of politics, I think I’ll stick with the old style. Oh wait a minute, silencing voters is old school in Chicago; what was old is new again.

Where is Al Gore in all this? He was robbed here in Florida. Robbed. And yet he silently sits by as the will of Florida voters is ignored again. Amazing! I didn’t figure him to be a wimp.

Did I suddenly wake up in Castro’s Cuba?

Fredster

Terry,

My understanding is that the FL lege moved the dates up, but put in a poison pill for you guys by changing something so you all would have voting machines that would provide an audit and that was why folks went along with it. Is that basically correct? I can understand why the voters agreed to this. My problem is why punish the voters (esp. the Democrat voters) for what the repub FL legislature did? Make no sense, especially to strip/not seat the entire delegation.

Terry

Fredster:

The Republicans control both houses of the Legislature and the Governor’s office – they have for a decade. The Republican Party wanted to make Florida a more important state in the electoral process, and Dems liked the idea as well, though the state party knew that the national party wanted Iowa, Nh amd SC to be the early voting states (why, I do not for the life of me know . . . ). The Dems put up no real opposition because the R’s in the Legislature agreed to create a paper trail for statewide elections if the primary date was moved up. A paper trail is a huge issue in Florida. After the 200 nightmare, most Florida coutnies went to Diebold systems – which the Supervisor of Elections of Leon PROVED could be haked. Nobody wanted to go back to punch cards (hello Al Gore), so D’swant either a scan-read paper ballot OR a touchscreen with a paper trail. R’s refused to ditch Diebold entirely, but agreed to papertrail is D’s did not oppose the move of the primary.

The truth is, D’s are such a minority in the Fla. Legislature that the primary would have been moved with or without their support. the DNC knows this. D’s here in Florida did a noble service by trying to get a paper trail so that the integrity of elections in Florida could no longer be called into doubt. And what did the DNC do? Punish us anyway knowing D’s had no power in the Legislature to stop the majority from doing the inevitable.

This was a really crass move on the DNC’s part. The cynic in me believes that Dean, Donna Brazille and the other Obama supporters in the DNC (is there any non-Obama supporters in the DNC) knew Fla. was Clinton territory and was only too happy to drop Fla. out.

But, anyone who thinks the a Democrat will reside at 1600 Penn Ave without the support of Florida obviously has not been paying attention.

The DNC has screwed Fla. and Fla. will return the favor should Obama be the D’ nominee. Bank on it. WE ARE MAD. WE WILL NOT BE IGNORED AND TAKE IT LIGHTLY.

Hello. Mr. Global Warming. Temperatures are rising here in Florida. Are you going to do something about it?

Hello, Speaker Pelosi. You represent a district with a large garlic nose, er, I mean, Italian population; indeed, your name suggests garlic nose, er, I mean, Italian ancestry (mine too). Are you listening?

Get Florida’s Democrats in the process. NOW.

Sorry for the long post, Fredtser. I don’t mean to digress into a Keith O screed – but I really am mad as is EVERY Florida Democrat I know. And by the way, there are more Fla. Dems than there are in Iowa, NH (which BO lost), SC combined. If the Florida primary had counted, the world would be a different place. No controversy. One nominee. One candidate able face Mac in the fall.

We have a slugfest b/c Dean wants to make this process one which will select a candidate most like him – i.e., a loser.

Newport News Dem

I am elected Democratic Party Official. I work for an elected Democrat.

I will resign from the party if the voices of Michigan and Florida are silenced by a Democrat. I am not going to remain a member of a party that will prevent millions of Democrats not being represented in Denver.

Obamabots can spare me with their shallow and rovian “don’t break the rules” BS arguments. There are plenty of ways, within the rules, to make it happen.

http://bluelyon.blogspot.com carissa

Newport News Dem,

I am a staunch party activist and my line in the sand is the same as yours. The Democratic Party does not disenfranchise voters. The moment it does, I cease being a Democrat.

See my Open Letter to Howard Dean.

Gregoryp

I am glad you understand how the DNC can be annoyed with both Florida and Michigan violating their guidelines. I can’t understand it one bit. These were fair elections that were conducted legally by the states. The DNC is part of a political party. They do not make the law or control the elected officials of any state. The DNC is not above the law. In fact, they are constituents as all the rest of us. In Florida, the elected officials of the state decided when to have their primary and what would be on the ballot in terms of consitutional amendments, resolutions, whatever. It is not up to the DNC to dictate to Florida when they have their primary, what is going to be on it or anything. That is up to the people of Florida. Political parties are for convenience and a way for like minded people to band together and get things done. Political parties are not bigger than the government, the laws of the government or the will of the people. I think if this went to court the DNC would lose because there is an expectation by Floridians to have their delegates seated based on tradition and of course based on the rules that the DNC didn’t even follow in meting out the punishment. I think it is clear that the DNC exacted the punishment on both states in order to prevent 1 candidate from getting the nomination. Otherwise, they’d have just followed the republican blueprint and their own by-laws and punished both states by cutting the delegates in half. At this juncture it appears the democratic party is a joke and needs to be disbanded.

Kathy

Are we in kindergarten? Why the hell should the DNC tell any voter when they can vote. As voters, we should tell the DNC when we are going to vote. If my whole vote in Florida isn’t counted the way I cast it in my primary, unfortunately John McCain will be the next president.

It’s easy DNC, do you want a democrat for president or don’t you?

ybnormal

I sincerely believe that Dem Convention delegate participation is currently at the very top of the under-reported issues list. Most major reporting is covering arguably less than 1% of the total reality.

Just the tip of the iceberg:
Iowa, New Hamshire and South Carolina are also equally as much a part of the problem as FL and MI, perhaps more so, since they skipped away from the same violations with no sanctions. There’s a huge amount of blame to go around a huge circle. The short list includes: the Regulations of the Rules & Bylaws Committee for the 2008 Democratic National Convention as well as the actions of the committee itself, the 2008 Delegate Selection Rules for the Democratic National Convention, the Call to the 2008 Democratic National Convention, and and on top of that, the Florida chapter of the GOP as well as Florida’s speaker of the house.

MSM would just love to make this a Clinton/Obama cat fight, because it naturally leads to convenient sound bites which fit neatly between commercials. But while both these campaigns have their involvement, in context they are both much less than many others. So while pundits and campaigns argue in the dining car, the DNC train is about to drive itself over a cliff. My prediction, unless this is dealt with effectively, is that August ’08 will make ’68 look like an also-ran in terms of self-destruction. And to think we once thought that a Dem in ’08 was a shoe-in! Who knew?

The irony is that the GOP doesn’t even have to help that much. While the DNC does the driving, all the GOP has to do is ride shotgun with encouraging words of ‘have at it ‘ya bunch of dumb-shits’. Followed by laughing all the way to the White House.

Kevin

excellent points
S

you are correct except the DNC has stated it is up to the two camps to come up with a solution and the Obama camp is resisting all options except the offer to agree to a 50-50 split which they did not earn…

last night CNN did a piece on the Michigan revote and the two state officials that were instrumental in killing it were interviewed and SURPRISE!!! they are both Obama supporters…and truthfully they were gleeful and one actually said “it is good to be in the lead” with a smirk on his face

the CNN reporter then spoke to the local reporter covering the story and he confirmed that the Obama campaign has halted the possibility of a revote…

…those are the facts…as I said below…Obama is trying to run out the clock…they want Hillary out of the race because they are afraid she can galvanize momentum at the end…and they can’t take the chance of giving her any other opportunities in the two big states of Fl and Mi…

…it is simple they are afraid of her…out of all the other candidates…she is the last one standing besides Obama…and she is right on his heels…

you are completely correct about the trainwreck that is coming at the convention…is is tragic…

jwrjr

Some of us understood the repercussions of disallowing the MI and FL delegates immediately after the foolish move was announced. Dean and the DNC can disallow the delegates, but the votes will still count in November. And those voters will be pissed.
helen

if the dnc can nullify 2 states this year because the people did go for the the chosen one, what happens in the future? i guess the will of the people no longer counts in the democratic party. look out in the other 48 states, your state could be next. according to the dnc those 2 states did not do things the dnc”s way so they no longer count.
ybnormal

Speaking of train wrecks, the most famous train wreck in history; soon to become #2.

The Grateful Dead – Casey Jones (1972)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlgHf7zgBt4&feature=related

TeakWoodKite

…just crossed my mind…yup.

http://www.zenhomeschool.org Deb Huntley

COUNT THE DAMN VOTES!

If the Dems do not find a way to count all the votes, then I promise, I will quit the Democratic Party. I don’t have to vote for the old worn-out soldier, but I don’t have to be a Democrat either, especially if our primary votes don’t really count according to this party’s controlling elite.

How about it? Drop the Party if the Party can not be democratic. You can still always vote for anyone you want to in the general election!

Sincerely,
dh
http://papertigertail.blogspot.com otherlisa

Well-said, DCMediagirl. For Democrats to disenfranchise two entire states – “irony” doesn’t come close to covering it.

Douglas

No the irony just about covers it when Clinton claims voters are being disenfranchised by not having the states of Mi and Fl counted, while in the same breath repeatedly telling PLEDGED delegates nationwide that it doesn’t matter who they’re pledged too. They’re just as independent as a superduper delegate and can switch votes.

http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Molly

Dean is a lousey leader. After watching what he has allowed to happen, I am completely thrilled that he got his butt kicked as a presidential candidate. He is so far in Obama’s tank, he doesn’t even care if he ticks off Florida and Michigan just to keep some teflon on his candidate. The fact that these are two states we need to win mean nothing to Dean. Does he really expect all the women he has trashed to follow in lockstep with Barack Obama? What’s he on????

He doesn’t represent me and I will not follow him. Not now and not ever. I’m glad he’s not my doctor too.

apishapa

I supported Dean for DNC Chairman because he promised a 50 STATE POLICY, he promised to support Democratic Partyies of all 50 states. He has been an incredible disappointment.

S

this primary season has been a real eye opener for many of us loyal Democrats…Loyal Democrats that have given time, money, blood, sweat and tears…

…many of us that fought for the votes to be counted in Florida in 2000 when the situation was so bad it went all the way to the Supreme Court…

…to have the DNC, the delegates, and the Obama supporters be so cavilier about the ‘glue’ or the VOTE that links us all together as Democrats is beyond unforgiveable…it is a dealbreaker…

The DNC and Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Dodd, Leahy are worried about a bloodbath at the convention…they are so blind they cannot see what is happening right now…they pooh pooh the divisions
and say Hillary get out now and let’s all unite behind Obama…they believe everyone will just fall into line…

…it is not going to happen…many of us are furious…many are planning on becoming McCain Democrats and many are becoming Clinton Independents

…The DNC does not understand that the damage is being done because the Democratic Party is driving us away…we no longer recognize our own party…and what we thought we stood for…

Count me as a Clinton Independent…now I understand the concept “I did not leave my party, my party left me” and it has been shocking to see the corruption and manipulation that exists in the DNC and the party elders…

btw…I live in Florida…so I am invisible anyway…

…they system is rigged and it is rigged to favor one candidate

…and the DNC and the cohorts stopping the votes from being counted are a disgrace

Good Luck trying to win the election when your base has walked away

Kevin

how are they stopping the votes from being counted??? Seriously – that meme keeps running throughout these discussions.

The states were presented w/ two options for resolving the situation once it was known that they were not going to abide by the rules (Fla, granted is a slightly different case since it was pushed by the GOP majority legislature – or so I’ve heard).

Come up w/ a way to choose delegates (re-vote) or appeal to the rules committee at the convention.

Both FL and Mich have said they would’ve held the revote if the DNC paid for it or kicked in. Pay for it? The national party shouldn’t have to do that – kick in… there’s merit there.

http://! flyarm

kevin, you do not know what you are talking about, you are spewing the obama talking points bullshit!

From the minute the vote in our fla legislature was amended onto our bill to ban Dre Voting machines and mandate Voter verified paper Ballots, Dean started pushing caucus on the Florida Dem party.

and Dean this fall offered 800,000 bucks to the FDP to run a caucus..gee since almost all Obama has won is caucus’s , non democratic SCREAMING SESSIONS.. THAT ELIMINATE THE MILITARY VOTE, THE SENIOR CITIZEN VOTES…AND MANY WORKERS VOTES.. , do you think maybe the system was gamed..well those of us in Fla have no doubt of that!

WE have the biggest block of Vets in the nation and a very senior citizenship, many of who could not do a caucus, physically!

Oh yeah..so we should just have our college kids Caucus right?? the Dean and Obama way..you know the kids who have sacrificed so much for this nation..hell screw our seniors ..what the hell have they sacrificed..just wars and their children and their tax dollars all their lives..Phoofy…who cares about our soldiers who are not sitting in college but ducking bombs and bullets..

remember Fla is the headquarters for the damn war..we get it …

stop the damn Obama talking points..we get it..very clearly here in Fla..some may not hear too well any longer , since they fought in wars and lost their hearing in their older age..but we get it..maybe you can be fooled , but we the people in Fla can not be.

so save your b.s. Kevin!!

Kevin

interesting… why hasn’t the state party been more vocal about this then? let me guess – they’re being repressed or their part of the conspiracy??

LOL – so, you’re saying that no vets, seniors, etc. have participated in any of the other caucuses? They’re all just being cut out of the process – funny, for such an aggreived populace, they’ve been might quiet.

And I’m the one talking bs? spare me.

S

Kevin,

I am in Florida…we are not being quiet…we are fighting to have the votes counted and the delegates seated…as I said Obama received about 500,000 votes here and delegates…and Edwards also received votes and delegates…

…in fact, all the candidates agreed not to campaign in Florida and the only one that did was Obama…he rans ads on all the local tv here for about one week…

I am sorry to say, but Mr. Obama does not play fair and is not truthful…he plays Chicago hardball…

…btw…Florida does not have caucuses…we have as stated above a large elderly population here…

I think you need to think of this as objectively and as if the tables were turned and Obama had won those two states and all his voters were denied their votes…

be honest Kevin…you would be seeing this as the voters are being screwed and this is voter surpression…

Andy

S, you are dead on right in your post. I am with you and agree 100%.
http://! flyarm

thank you “S”
absolutely, i agree with you 100%

and many of us in Fla feel the exact same way.

although I will vote for Mickey Mouse..in Nov..
I and many dems in my area of Fla will be writing in Mickey Mouse!!

fly

lorac

Then write in Hillary! Make a point that might actually count for something, if enough people do it!

http://! flyarm

What really frosts me, the primary votes of Guam and Puerto Rico will count towards our Democratic Primay and my vote in Florida will not.

I am furious.

I was a dem Delegate in 2004 for the State of Florida
I have a message for the dem party and Howard dean, Pelosi, Leahy, and any of the other dems who have disenfranchised me..

Don’t count my vote now, then don’t count it in November. I will stay home, and i will get my absentee ballot and I will write in Mickey Mouse!

Many of us dems in the area I live in, are all planning to vote for Mickey..that would be republican Mickey Mouse from our State of Florida!

Yes it seems Dean and Leahy and Donna Brazile and Dodd especially Obama feel the people of Guan and Puerto Rico deserve to vote and have their vote counted more than me, me someone who has written huge checks to the DNC and many many Dem candidates throughout my husband and my adult lives..well they can go f themselves now.I am done with the Dem party.

Forever!

I fought and put up alot of money to get votes to count in Florida , for everyone. I fought for those disenfranchised, and all minorities against the republicans in my state. I am tired of fighting and spending my money for this , especially when my own party for the past 8 years have told me and others who have fought against these machines and have fought for Audits, told us to shut up..people would not come to vote if they thought the votes were being stolen. They told us we were nuts , until 18,000 votes disappeared in Sarasota. And even then the dem party pissed on our candidate who had her votes robbed.

I am convinced now that there are not two parties. There is one party with one big money pot in the middle..they don’t give a shit about our votes.

Kerry knew in 2004 the votes were stolen , not just in Ohio..he sent many Lawyers here to Florida for the election..and we told him he didn’t need lawyers he needed computer tech nerds who could look at how the elections were being stolen..we here in Fla were ignored.

And Ohio wasn’t the only place getting their election stolen..Fla lost a boat load of votes in 2004.

But we the people, who were ignored by the Dem party and Dean and Leahy and Dodd and Pelosi…so we took it in our own hands , and we became last May the first and only state in the USA to ban DRE voting machines , that could not in any way be audited. No other state did it for the 2008 election.

It was that bill that the Repigs put the amendment to change the Primary date onto.

Well if that makes us rule breakers..i ask where the hell the rest of you were..yes you all of you who have Dre voting machines in your states?

Don’t wait for the dem party to help you..they will just piss on you!..Just look what they did to us in Fla and our votes, and on top of it ..they are stinking liars because they don’t have the damn guts to tell you the whole story.

So who are they that are right now trying to steal your vote and this election..start looking into the back grounds of those trying to steal this election for Obama..look deep and hard..the answers are readily available.

I was fooled too. I believed in the Dem party, I no longer do.

I laugh now because i used to not care for Lou Dobbs but he said it clearly tonight..the people telling Hillary she needs to get out of this race, are all Obama supporters..well lets show them and tell them to f off.. we the people will decide who our candidate is..not Leahy , certainly not the man who disenfranchised millions of Americans Howard dean , screw him lets all get him the hell out of our DNC!, Not Pelosi..hell she won’t even open a table for the worst criminal in our White House in my 56 years!

I want them all out of my government …they sure as hell don’t give a damn about my vote..nor dem principles..heck they have even called up to the DNC and DC a big time republican in my area,.very wealthy ..to run as a dem for congress in my area..yes a big time repig got an interview to run as a dem in Fla ..against a real great lifelong dem!

I am done being fooled by these liars and crooks.
They will never see another dime of my money..and I will vote for Mickey Mouse in November!

Hope you can live with that Howard Dean.

No vote for me or the delegates of my state, no vote ever for your candidate Obama! end of story.

fly
http://susannah helen rich

[QUOTE]Comment by Kevin | 2008-03-28 19:05:47

how are they stopping the votes from being counted??? Seriously – that meme keeps running throughout these discussions.

The states were presented w/ two options for resolving the situation once it was known that they were not going to abide by the rules (Fla, granted is a slightly different case since it was pushed by the GOP majority legislature – or so I’ve heard).

Come up w/ a way to choose delegates (re-vote) or appeal to the rules committee at the convention.

Both FL[/QUOTE]

you left out one detail: hillary was all for this. OBAMA refused it. both had to agree! OBAMA refused. wonder why?

Kevin

She was all for what and he didn’t want what???

Please elaborate

S

Kevin,

the Obama campaign has refused all options for any revotes…their offer is to split the delegates they did not earn by 50/50…

…their strategy is to run out the clock…and make some deal when it won’t matter in the race…that is part of the reason they are trying to push Hillary out of the race before the convention so all will be fine at the convention and then they can be seated since she will no longer be a threat…

…however to long standing democrats, not these newcomers that have just joined the Obama bandwagon…this is offensive…this is not legitamite, the USA has 50 states not 48, and for us dems that have been at this awhile and have worked on many campaigns…this smells bad…it reaks of a set-up

…you sound like an Obama supporter and perhaps you are a newcomer…most dems believe the VOTE is the most tangible symbol we can express as a Democrat…that is what UNITES us…

I, along with almost 2 million Flordians went to vote in Florida…I believe about 500,000 of the votes went to Obama…and yet…in this most important election year with every vote and delegate so important…my Democratic vote is denied by the DNC…yet the Republican Floridians will have their votes counted…

So which party sounds Democratic to you?

As the post above says…the DNC screwed it up from the start…they could have cut the delegates in half and counted the votes…but no, they took ALL OUR VOTING RIGHTS AWAY FROM US…after we fought all the way to the supreme court for every one in 2000

plus we were deprived of all the rallys, town halls, and excitement the others states are getting to participate in…

…that is not a party I can respect any longer…

they have shown the voters no respect and we have no reason to be loyal

if you are not completely clear on what happened in Florida you need to get the facts…it was not the fault of the voters

lorac

And I believe I read that the turnout in Florida was double what it normally is – so I don’t buy the Obamaniacs’ cry that “they didn’t go to the polls because they thought it wouldn’t count!”
Kevin

regardless of how they got there – GOP legislature forcing the date up or by their own choice – the FLA party was told what the options were from the beginning. Revote or appeal to the committee.

I never blamed the voters, try not to put words in my mouth.

S

it doesn’t matter if you blamed the voters or not…the voters were punished and they had no power to stop the actions of the DNC or Republican controlled legislature…

Would you like it if in your passion for this election your vote was denied by the DNC…

they took the undemocratic action of denying the voters of their rights while at the same time the republicans had their votes counted in each state…does that sound fair? democratic?

The democratic party look like idiots…watch for massive defection and creation of independents…

the DNC could have done what the Repubs did and cut the delegates in half and count the votes…or they could have charged them with a fine…but who the hell is Howard Dean, Pelosi and Brazile to take my vote away from me?

the DNC has insulted the very essence of being a Democrat by stripping the citizen of their vote…what is there beyond your vote???

http://humorhasit.blogspot.com Shez

A “Typical MI Disenfranchised Voter” here. Great post, thank you. I received another one of those “48 state” requests for money from Howard Dean this afternoon. Well, he did put something in it about McCain, but I ignored that and went straight to the reply button. Everytime I get one my replies get angrier and angrier, today was my angriest yet.

I don’t have many people or site’s emails left to be able to bitch at as I’ve unsubscribed from so many already. The DNC I keep around precisely to be able to tell to go to hell each week since the fault lies squarely with them and I’m not about to let them forget I’m from Michigan. I always remember to mention our sister state of Florida.

At first a few months ago it was simple statements of ‘Please address immediately the biggest problem: Sexism. Seat the MI & FL delegates. I cast a valid legal vote in accordance to Michigan law. No money until then’.

Now I flat out tell him that both he and Donna B. need to be fired and replaced. Some people act horrified at that and sputter “but Dean has done so much for the party!”. I fire back oh really? So has Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton, but all they get is unfairly trashed and disgracefully shit upon, therefore Dean gets no passes or mercy from me nor any consideration for any of his “past work for the party”. Fuck that.

If the Clintons past hard work and great accomplishments over the decades are dissed, dismissed, undermined, and taken for granted where in the hell do people get off thinking any Democrat is safe or above reproach, for any deeds? They’ve rendered them all meaningless at this point. Just like our MI & FL votes at present.

The Kevins of the world apologists can whine and make transparent baseless excuses all they want about those uneven double standard supposed “rules” they seem to be so proud and happy about. That’s despicable and unadmirable, I’m not impressed a bit. They can’t answer if supposed rules were “broken” why our two states still held legal primaries though can they. Otherwise why did we even hold them? Or why law, principles, and decency trumps those rigged rules. For my right to vote, have it counted and counted fairly, and have the delegates allocated based on EARNED votes. Nothing else is acceptable. Period.

Obama didn’t just try, he DID game my state by removing his name on purpose for nefarious reasons, using his disgusting dirty underhanded Chicago way style politics. Tough shit Obama, you fucked yourself over, but most of all you fucked over your small number of supporters in Michigan that you certainly didn’t give a shit about. Show me where he cared about any of his supporters here. *crickets*

He makes a complete fool of himself every time he lies about it or conveniently leaves the truth and that info out. Especially every time we have to hear him claim that “he won Michigan”. I about fell off my chair to watch the YouTube of him blatantly lying about that ridiculous incredulous claim! That’s quite some fucked up logic there: he says he won a state he removed his own name from. Alrighty.

But unfortunately because of his selfish conniving our cash strapped dire straits state had to spend more money on new ballots to be reprinted which rarely gets mentioned. So there’s another school that got shut down and another million potholes not fixed, and Goddess knows what else our people have to go without now. That bastard.

Even though our statewide TV and all the newspapers covered our upcoming primary situation and choices very thoroughly many times, the Uncommitted campaign still freely romped and spammed our state for weeks on end. Anyone that says different is an untrustworthy liar, and probably not from Michigan. Illegal misleading Uncommitted flyers that also illegally used the MI Dem Party logo floated around, that’s just for starters.

I have to laugh if they are giving Rush a hard time over suggesting cross over voting in TX, then the second person they need to charge with the same thing is that punk Markos for that foolish “Make Mischief in MI! Vote for Mitt!” bullshit interference he pulled. Fair is fair.

Obama deserves zero delegates from Michigan for all that crap he pulled and caused. I’ll never vote for that fake lying asshat or ever forgive him for the nightmare he’s put my state directly through, and that we are still suffering over worse than ever.

Count my valid vote Howard. I already voted.
Ann

I am donating regularly to the campaign of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton. She is the candidate who can best lead this country.

As a lifelong Democrat, I am disgusted with the DNC’s attempt to game the system by not counting the Florida popular vote and delegates and by not pushing for a revote in MI. As long as we are playing a 48 state strategy — I will NOT contribute to any democratic cause whatsoever.

I will not have an inexperienced, dissembling candidate shoved down my throat in the person of Sen. Obama. He has dismissed core democratic voters — namely women, and many others — assigning horrible labels to those who don’t vote for him or don’t “get it”. If he is so sure he can get my vote, let him try. I can assure you he will be sorely disappointed.

I do not say this because I am trying to be a spoiler — I sincrely have doubts about this man’s integrity, veracity and competence and I will not entrust him to be the leader of the free world. He reminds me of a souffle that has been taken out of the oven too quickly — half-baked — and in danger of collapsing in the middle.

I am grateful Senator Clinton has the grit and determination to stay in the race.
S

a bit OT

As we know the MSM has given Obama a pass prior to the Pastor Disastor story breaking, however the Republicans have it all ready and waiting…

take a look at the first in a series of what will probably be the beginning of the end…

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/genera_none_080328_barck_obama___the_wi.htm
http://eriezindian Mary Yanity

I agree with everything said. I have been a loyal Dem but cannot see myself voting for BO. He will never get this woman’s vote!!!