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Not Done With Howard Dean Yet

By dcmediagirl on March 28, 2008 at 2:42 PM in Barack Obama, Democrats, Florida, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Michigan, Obama

So the chairman of the Democratic Party has come up with the following brilliant solution: Instead of eating some crow and devising a plan to allow the Florida and Michigan delegates to be chosen and seated, he advocates disenfranchising voters from those states and relying on superdelegates to decide. As cunning plans go, this one ranks right up there with those Baldrick‘s used to dream up which would so irritate Blackadder.

As a justification, Dean says this:

In a separate interview with The Associated Press, Dean warned against “demoralizing” Democrats with a drawn-out fistfight between Clinton and Obama.

“You do not want to demoralize the base of the Democratic Party by having the Democrats attack each other. … Let the media and the Republicans and the talking heads on cable television attack and carry on, fulminate at the mouth. The supporters should keep their mouths shut about this stuff on both sides because that is harmful to the potential victory of a Democrat,” Dean told the AP.

What planet does this man live on? There is only one way this decision will be interpreted: Screw Michigan and Florida voters and let the party bosses decide. Just the sort of image the Democrats want to present to the country. What an incentive to vote for the Democratic candidate in the fall!

In brief, according to Howard Dean democracy (the Clinton-Obama competition) is bad for, well, democracy. Look, if the goal is to save money and put an end to all this unseemly voting, why not just cancel the rest of the primaries and caucuses and anoint Obama the winner now? Send Hillary Clinton off with a kick in the pants and a “thank you for playing” parting gift. That makes about as much sense as what’s being proposed by the party “chairman”.

For shame.

fiscalliberal

I would imagine Hillary has been breifed on this and we need to have her campaign comment. If they do not accept Michigan and Florida, I would expect her to do something about it.

Third Party??????

salo

I have a sick feeling about all this.

In order to win against Hillary Clinton Obama has had to run against the legacy of Bill Clinton.

Every good thing from 1990s has had to be diminshed and ridiculed so that she can’t take a slice or morsel of the credit for peace in Bosnia or Northern Ireland. (The married men here will know that their wives are indispensible advisors on many big life issues:and I can well imagine that she had discussions with Bill about where to make his big political efforts like the Balkans and Ireland)

Sadly for Obama he can’t demolish the credit for those years and expect to use them for himself in a general election. He can’t have her and Bill’s political corpse at his feet and then point to Bill’s brilliant successes in NI and Bosnia as something he can replicate. He’s got even less conection to them than Hillary.

So wtf is he going to run on?

the successes of Zbig and Cyrus Vance? He’ll be laughed out the courtroom.

Shainzona

Great comment…just think how much Bill is going to want to campaign for Obama – let alone be in the same room with Obama and Dean and Brazile – if the Trashing of Hillary is complete.

Tough shit, Barry.
TeakwoodKite

What a blunt insight Salo, well said.

And yes, my sane half is just that;indispensable.

Eric

Clinton/Lieberman 2008!

Fredster

I wonder how Howie would handle several million copies of voter registration cards being delivered to him, showing where folks from FL and MI changed from Dems to Indies?
jwrjr

So, a fight between Clinton and Obama would demoralize voters, but disenfranchising them wouldn’t?

dcmediagirl

That’s it in a nutshell. Simply unbelievable. The Democratic Party chairman, ladies and gentlemen. Give him a big hand.

Kevin

give me a break – if you’d read the entire story over at CBS or better still watched the interview – rather than linking and quoting from Foxnews…

you’d know he also said this in the interview:

“Dean also said the Michigan and Florida delegates will be seated at the convention. But he won’t force a resolution because he said there’s nothing the Obama and Clinton campaigns can support at this point. ”

which completely disproves this whole – he wants to disenfranchise the voters nonsense.

Shainzona

Dean says “seat” the delegates – as in attend – but will he allow them to VOTE?

No…they can participate in process votes and rules votes, and party party party. But they won’t count when it comes to the nomination.

Dean even cancelled the Michigan delegate hotel rooms about 6 weeks ago.

You’re doing a heck of a job, Howie!

Kevin

” Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean said the states can either come up with a new plan to choose a slate of delegates (such as revote) or appeal to the party’s credentials committee when the convention opens in August. (italicized words mine)

The rules were set a year and a half ago. Florida and Michigan voted for them and then decided that they didn’t need to abide by the rules. When you’re in a contest you do need to abide by the rules,” he said Thursday on CNN’s “American Morning.”

jwrjr

I’ll believe what Dean said, and you said, just as soon as those delegates are seated and voting according to the results of their primaries. And not one second earlier. Seating them with instructions to vote 50% Clinton and 50% Obama will be disenfranchisement, no matter what you or Dean says because they will not be voting according to the will of the voters in their states.

bob h

Is this really so difficult? Why not just commission reputable pollsters to call registered Dems and ask them? Keep going until the sampling error is less than 1%.

Not so difficult at all. If certain people continue to resist, then they signal their weakness, and undermine the legitimacy of the nomination if they get it.

simon

You know, with his handling of this matter, I’m so glad he didn’t become President.

The man cannot lead, and shows it with every word out of his mouth.

And many of us thought Dean was qualified, certainly more qualified than Obama.

simon

Dean cannot seem to recognize the complaints of those who support Hillary are serious, and with merit.

And rather than addressing these concerns, perhaps sitting down with Obama’s people, and trying to hammer out a real agreement, fair to Clinton, he turns and blames that group, not understanding his actions have cost the democratic party our votes, and money. He simply enables, for whatever reason.

A stupid man.

And the more he blames, as opposed to SOLVING, the more he, and Obama, lose, the more the whole DNC loses.

http://OUTRAGEDBUTNOTSURPRISED bama_barrron

i can hardly believe dean would be so stupid as to offer up this type of logic unless, of course, he wanted obama to be the nominee. why not just be honest and say so!

the tragic result of this type of decision is two fold: first, it disenfranchises millions of democrats and secondly, it will almost assuredly insure a republican victory in november. the gop and crazy john are being gifted the election by howard dean and his cronies.
http://thedemocraticdaily.com gqmartinez

Fix FL and MI NOW. It’s about more than Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton!
Fleaflicker

The supporters should keep their mouths shut about this stuff…

I am not sure whether or not Howard Dean understands sign language or not but perhaps his associates at the DNC can translate this for him.

Here is a one finger salute for Howard Dean.

Rot in hell too!

dcmediagirl

Message to Howard Dean:

“The supporters” = Democratic voters, stupid. And the man graduated from medical school…

TeakwoodKite

I guess he wants to “settle” for a 48 state solution.
Which is it Dr. Dean? 50 or 48?

Shainzona

I have figured out how Obama intends to govern with Kumbaya. He’ll just steal the hard word of other people and take credit for it. Obamaphiles were accusing Hillary of Valor Theft re: Bosnia (I found that attack to be particularly repugnant). Isn’t this the same thing?

“After weeks of arduous negotiations, on April 6, 2006, a bipartisan group of senators burst out of the “President’s Room,” just off the Senate chamber, with a deal on new immigration policy.

As the half-dozen senators — including John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) — headed to announce their plan, they met Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), who made a request common when Capitol Hill news conferences are in the offing: “Hey, guys, can I come along?” And when Obama went before the microphones, he was generous with his list of senators to congratulate — a list that included himself.

“I want to cite Lindsey Graham, Sam Brownback, Mel Martinez, Ken Salazar, myself, Dick Durbin, Joe Lieberman . . . who’ve actually had to wake up early to try to hammer this stuff out,” he said.

To Senate staff members, who had been arriving for 7 a.m. negotiating sessions for weeks, it was a galling moment. Those morning sessions had attracted just three to four senators a side, Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) recalled, each deeply involved in the issue. Obama was not one of them.”

(CBS News, 03/28/2008 – IN AN ARTICLE that primairly rehashed every word Hillary has said, too.)

salo

The Clinton’s took considerable political risk in trying to help end the mess in NI and the Balkans.

I can’t see why she shouldn’t attempt to take some credit for that effort–if for no other reason than that the majority of that team will be back with her leading it. She’d have been at teh very least Bill’s closest advisor on the larger political decisions–where to spend the political capital.

But that’s also what galls people about her candidacy. It’s a sort a built in advantage that she had over other aspirants that is also a source of professional jealousy.

dcmediagirl

Two things:

- Dean is sending a message to the legislatures and state Democratic party offices that if they cross the national party the repercussions will be severe. Understood. The legislators knew the rules when they embarked on this foolishness. But now it’s time to find a reasonable compromise. For God’s sake, this is MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA we’re talking about, not Guam and American Samoa (with apologies to those fine territories).

- Dean lives in fear of the possibility of a brokered convention. Don’t ask me why. I’ve never seen one and I think it would be bracing and exciting – and if I thought it was likely to happen in Denver my significant other and I would be on a plane so fast it’d make your head spin. Dean is so desperate to have the nomination sewn up before August that he’s willing to propose this foolish plan.

Gregoryp

So you are saying that the fairly elected legislators of Florida should bow down and capitulate to Howard Dean? Give me a break. The legislator’s work on behalf of the citizens of Florida in according to Florida law. They don’t work for the DNC. Besides, these were Republican legislators. Howard Dean is their political enemy. He has no sway over them and shouldn’t. Dean and the DNC had no leg to stand on here and overplayed their hand. They had to know what the end result would be. If they didn’t they are incompetent morons. From everything I’ve read the republicans have been more than generous on this issue. I personally think they ought to decertify the democratic party and remove them from the ballot in November. Frankly, I’d be more than pissed if Howard Dean and the DNC came into my state and tried to push Rick Perry or my legislature around. See, Dean doesn’t represent me or the people of my state. The people that actually live here, build poltical capital here, get their names on the ballot here and work to improve the lives of Texans are the people I expect to look out for me. Dean’s frigging job is to raise funds, back candidates, buy advertising, promote the agenda, etc. It isn’t to govern. The DNC way overstepped their bounds.
Fleaflicker

At his point I am thinking about attending the convention JUST to protest that the traitor Howard Dean is even allowed inside. He is the one that needs to be disenfranchised from the Democratic party.
http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

It was ridiculous to set such an unfair and unenforceable punishment in the first place. If the DNC is really this deep into black leather, they need to at least find a punishmnet that impacts only the FL party leaders — not the voters or the candidates.

Let the delegates vote as pledged for the nominee — by mail — but not actually get into the convention building for the wheeling and dealing

And/or, strip the pledges and send ALL the MI and FL delegates as Uncommitted. Let Obama and Hillary woo them individually, all summer. Obama should like this fine, as his camp campaigned for the Uncommitted slate in MI.

AF catfish

In brief, according to Howard Dean democracy (the Clinton-Obama competition) is bad for, well, democracy. Look, if the goal is to save money and put an end to all this unseemly voting, why not just cancel the rest of the primaries and caucuses and anoint Obama the winner now?

Dean: Put an end to all this unseemly voting!

I think we’ve got a soundbyte. Thank you dcmediagirl!
AF catfish

This isn’t getting enough play:

According to a Miami Herald poll earlier this week, 24% of Florida
Democrats say they are less likely to support the ultimate Democratic
candidate if their votes in the primary don’t count.

TeakwoodKite

How many votes seperated the candidates in 2000?

Even if you allow for the “Ah shucks” factor that is a real problem.

Mary B

Dean wants his candidate Obama to be the nominee and is willing to do whatever it takes to get that result, including disenfranchising millions of voters. There is no other explanation for what is happening. Democracy? Hardly. Just crown the king and let’s get down to business of the general election. Shame on Dean and shame on all of these asshats calling for Clinton to drop out right now.
LandOLincoln

Howard Dean said what???

I didn’t think the man could possibly make more of a jerk of himself than he already has, but once again he exceeds expectations.

Is there any way we can fire this asshat and his merry crew before they do any more damage?

In the meantime, and though I really can’t afford it, I’m going give Hillary some bucks. Then I’m going to email Dean and tell him why I did, and that every time he opens his fat mouth I’m going to do it again, even if it’s only $5.00.

Maybe if a lot of us do the same, it’ll at least begin to make a dent in Dean’s thick head.
Blue State Girl

I support Howard. Always have, always will. I might handle the situation differently if I were in his shoes but this armchair quarterbacking has got to stop because it doesn’t help at all.

If you take a deep breath and actually read what he has said, you might see that what he is saying is that both candidates and their supporters should beware of tearing each other down, demoralizing the base and damaging the party’s chances of winning the White House in November. Remember those statistics of Clinton voters who won’t vote or who will vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee? And those who won’t vote if Clinton is the nominee? I thought the goal was to win the White House.

And why is “fixing” the situation in MI and FL the only way he can show leadership? If he steps in and “fixes” things, how does that make things fair? Or better? Face it, MI and FL fucked it up; they need to come up with a solution.

I’m amazed that people want Dean to impose a solution. Surely you get the point by now that it’s not how he sees his job. He has always said that he is the referee. That will not change. You don’t have to like it but he will not change course.

Here: Read something more interesting than a Fox News story.

dcmediagirl

I find your comment baffling. Howard Dean is not a referee. He is the chairman of a national political party. The delegates will be seated at the NATIONAL party convention. The PR debacle of not devising a solution to allow those delegates to be seated is immeasurable and will paint the Democratic party as, well, undemocratic. The Republicans will have a field day with that, believe me. That’s why this mess needs to be resolved NOW, not only because it’s the right thing to do but because to remain on this course will harm the party.

And if he sees himself as a mere referee, why is he expressing so much concern that the presumptive nominee hasn’t been chosen yet? Clearly primary voters and caucus goers are divided. HE’S the one who’s creating division and ill-will in the party. He should stop blaming the voters, members of the Democratic party and the candidates for being so irritated and take a good long look in the mirror. In other words, he needs to do the job he was hired to do, which is not to referee, but to lead.

Kevin

Tell me, did he tell FLA and Michigan to ignore the rules? did he not tell them what would happen should they choose to?

Better still – since he said the the very interview you cite that delegates from both states WILL be seated – how he’s disenfranchising people as I keep reading here?

Gregoryp

Are you saying that the DNC is responsible for governing? Is it more important than state law? They should have more say in the state of Florida then their elected officials? Dean and the DNC overstepped his bounds here and they didn’t even follow their own rules for punishment. They made the shit up as they went along. Why did they do that? Why did they try to push around the state legislature of Florida and their Republican congress?

Kevin

of course not… by the way, it was the Fla republicans who stuck a poison pill into the re-vote plan. The GOP new exactly how to ensure this mess would continue. Anyway:

” Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean said the states can either come up with a new plan to choose a slate of delegates or appeal to the party’s credentials committee when the convention opens in August.

The rules were set a year and a half ago. Florida and Michigan voted for them and then decided that they didn’t need to abide by the rules. When you’re in a contest you do need to abide by the rules,” he said Thursday on CNN’s “American Morning.”

Fleaflicker

I am going to completely disagree with you. The media and the Obama campaign have effectively painted Hillary’s campaign as the instigator of this negative crap. That is the lie. And Howard Dean coming in and making a blanket statement like that only reinforces the lie.

If Dean were to be fair and come out and say that the Obama crossed over the line with race baiting and any number of other things then sure, I would cut him some slack. But he didn’t and he isn’t. And it is VERY clear to any impartial observer that Howard Dean supports Obama.
Gregoryp

Could be because he is the nitwit who broke it in the first place. Here are some major, major problems with Dean’s strategy in this case. 1) Not seating the delegates disenfranchises the voters, 2) the democratic candidates were not allowed to campaign in the state thereby minimizing the message and getting out the vote in the general, 3)the party looks apathetic and stupid in the eyes of the voters and not worthy to govern, 4) whoever the nominee ultimately is they won’t be legitimate, 5) a move like this completely minimizes and crushes the state parties and local chapters, 6) both Florida and Michigan are swing states. Florida has been super close in the last two presidential elections and a defection of just 1000 votes to the republicans can mean the difference of winning by 500 or losing by 1500. It is a very big deal. Dean is going to go down as one of the most infamous party leaders ever. The only reason you are singing this tune is that your preferred candidate is benefitting. Of course, this is about more than winning a nomination. It is actually about winning the white house and governing.
mimi

Sorry, but Dean is a day late and a dollar short!

That was my goal until people like Kennedy, Kerry, Jesse Jackson,Jr. and others showed their heavy hands and the Obama supporters started acting like yard dogs.

It’s been clear for some time that the powers-that-be have wanted Hillary to step down, in fact since Super Tuesday, when the chant for her to step down was deafening leading up to Ohio and Texas.

So Dean can’t give me this crap about supporters being the problem. There would be no problem if it were not him, Kennedy, Kerry and others. The bad feelings were strong even before the Wright debacle and now since then, it’s gone off the charts.

It’s no longer a threat where I’m concerned. I am registering Independent if Obama gets the nomination. I will not support his candidacy nor any other Democrats. I’ve been a loyal democrat and THEY DID THIS.

The only shot they have is either paying for a re-vote in FL & MI or awarding the delegates to Hillary now. They don’t do that, the Party is DEAD to me!

DCDemocrat

Dr. Dean: As a citizen of the United States, I am hereby putting you on notice that I demand my first amendment rights. I do not forfeit them for your little Obamanista party.

Fleaflicker

Right by your side on this one! If he thought saying that crap would calm things down he has no idea who he has pissed off.

Melissa

Dean and the big boys would rather back a fatally flawed male candidate who has got a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the GE than back a woman with experience, knowledge and guts.
I got an e-mail from Dean asking for money today. He REALLY REALLY does not get it.
Here is my reply.
Sir, I will donate to the DNC-
When you
A. Seat the delegates from Fl and MI and
B. Explain publicly that Superdelegates have an obligation to endorse the most electable candidate.

Until then, sir, I will continue to donate to my candidate of choice and the candidate my relatives in Fl voted for, Hillary Clinton.
Thrasyboulos

Dean got into trouble when he ran for the nomination because someone unearthed some old comment of his, in, I believe, a Canadian venue, dissing the Iowa caucuses as “undemocratic”, with Kos in full support. One of the things that sank him there.

Howard Dean, hypocrite.

(And I used to really like the guy for his anti war position.)
http://www.thegsblog.com/ zaine_ridling

It is amazing how everyone in the media and every single Obama supporter says the race is over, reminding me of Bush in 2000: “Stop counting votes before we lose!” They’re not afraid of criticism, but they have a gut feeling that Hillary would pull this off if FL and MI are seated (or better, allowed to revote).

That’s their real fear, and to mask it, they repeat the mantra, “It’s over because obama is ahead in pledged delegates (at this moment)” right before he’s about to lose the majority of states to close out the primary season, making him look like a loser.
http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

DID YOU ALL JUST GET THE E-MAIL FROM HOWARD DEAN THAT I GOT?

The title: “Now more than ever”

The letter (forgive the length — that’s Howard’s doing, not mine):

Dear Susan,

John McCain is raising money and campaigning across the country — he’s looking at the White House.

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are also raising money and campaigning across the country — but they’re still looking at the nomination.

Hillary and Barack can’t build an organization to take on John McCain directly yet, but we can. And we have to — it’s our responsibility as Democrats to make sure we’re prepared.

I need you to make a contribution now so we can make sure John McCain doesn’t get a free ride — Americans everywhere need to know the truth, and we’re going to make sure they get it.

http://www.democrats.org/NoFreeRides

Over the past three years, you’ve invested heavily in our 50-State Strategy. We put resources in all 50 states, committing to make sure each state has the resources and infrastructure to compete at every level.

We saw the results from this strategy in 2005, 2006, and 2007. And, with your help, it will help us take back the White House in 2008.

Why? The Republican Party is in trouble. Just read what the Web site Politico reported…

At a time when the GOP presidential nominee will need more assistance than ever, a number of state Republican parties are struggling through troubled times, suffering from internal strife, poor fundraising, onerous debt, scandal or voting trends that are conspiring to relegate the local branches of the party to near-irrelevance.

In some of the largest, smallest, reddest and bluest states in the nation, many state Republican organizations are still reeling in the aftermath of the devastating 2006 election cycle, raising questions about how much grassroots help the state parties will be able to deliver to presumptive GOP nominee John McCain.

We’ve worn them down, but we can’t be complacent — we’ve seen what they will do to win. We can’t let up — every day that goes by where we don’t answer John McCain’s attacks means another opportunity missed, and it erases the work we’ve done so far.

Make a donation today and support our efforts to help elect Hillary or Barack. We’re fighting John McCain so he doesn’t get ahead.

http://www.democrats.org/NoFreeRides

We can’t allow John McCain to crisscross the country, fooling the American people with his “more of the same” agenda.

Your donation today helps us take him head-on everywhere.

Thank you,

Howard Dean

OH, and he WANTS MY AND YOUR MONEY NOW!

hillarysmygirl

My favorite part of his letter is his “50-State Strategy. We put resources in all 50 states, committing to make sure each state has the resources and infrastructure to compete at every level.”

Shouldn’t it be “48-State Strategy”?

I just went to the DNC site and wrote him, saying that I’ve donated lots of money to Hillary’s campaign, and would match that to the DNC ONLY IF he BUTTS OUT of the process, seats the MI and FL delegates, allows the last 10 states to vote, and stops trying to influence the Superdelegates!

Wow, he’s got a pea brain and big balls…
Andy

Susan: I hope you’ve answered him alright.

The DNC needs first to show they can be trusted, seat FL & MI as is ( no 50/50 in MI, no 50% anywhere). Count the votes: one person one vote.
And prove to us that they are there to help us, the people.

Dean and Pelosi insult millions and millions of voters and they want “our financial help” ; they better find a different rug where to clean their feet.

mel

Considering the SD are suppose to be the intelligent side of the Democratic Party and intelligence at any level says without Fla and Mich involved in the nomination process, they won’t support any Democrat in the GE, so why aren’t these supposed intelligent party members speaking out for the good of the Party and shutting this squabbling down for the good of the Party?

This is the Democratic Party, not the Independant or Part time Party, so it is time the Democratic SD’s spoke out, allowing either total destruction of the Party or total support for EVERY Democrat in the country!

If they don’t the Republicans will have a field day in the GE with this one issue, because whomever is the DNP’s Presidentical candidate will NEVER be a true Democraticlly elected nominee!

It is obvious Obama is refusing because he knows in both FLA and Mich, he will not win because of his inability in any closed Primary to win! But this has a more far reaching effect than just making voters happy, it also becomes a true test of real electability in the GE by the candidates, and that is what this entire process is about is it not Super Delegates?
chris c

I filled out Howie’s little DNC Survey/Donation Request form this morning. Dated it and signed it and mailed it back. I couldn’t believe Howie had the stones to ask me if I was worried about voter disenfranchisement by Republicans this year.

I told him he was a hypocrite, that his Obama bias disgusted me, and that he would get no money from me until Michigan and Florida are seated, or revotes are allowed.

I am very, very angry at Howard Dean.

Kevin

revotes are allowed – DNC has simply said they aren’t going to pay for it.

Yes, the DNC should’ve handled this entire situation much better, not just FLA and MI, but the other early voter states as well – who weren’t sanctioned in the same ways.

But, you can’t say the DNC is not allowing revotes or that it’s disenfranchising anyone until they actually refuse to sead the delegates which no one has said will happen – it’d be suicide.

dcmediagirl

What delegates? As of this writing there are no Michigan and Florida delegations. What you’re seeing is slow-motion suicide. As long as there is no plan to select and seat the delegates Democratic voters in Florida and Michigan will officially be disenfranchised in this primary season.

Kevin

Personally I like the idea of taking the delegates from each (who are known, just uncredentialed and unrecognized by the DNC) and splitting them down the middle between each.

” Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean said the states can either come up with a new plan to choose a slate of delegates or appeal to the party’s credentials committee when the convention opens in August.

The rules were set a year and a half ago. Florida and Michigan voted for them and then decided that they didn’t need to abide by the rules. When you’re in a contest you do need to abide by the rules,” he said Thursday on CNN’s “American Morning.”

As I’ve said before, the entire thing is a mess – but the states (all who violated the established rules they’d previously agreed to) are equally to blame for the current situation.

Gregoryp

That is the same as not seating them. You are truely insane if you think that will work. You Obamabots have guaranteed that McCain will win in the fall and that the democratic party will lose all credibility from here on out. American’s like people who stand up for what they believe in, their ideas, their agenda. The Democrats have had control of Congress back for 2 years now and all they do is capitulate. American’s hate that crap. What we are witnessing is a first rate primer on how to make your party irrelevant and endangered. The DNC is putting the nails in the coffin as we speak.
jwrjr

I don’t doubt that you like the 50/50 solution. It gives Obama delegates he didn’t earn, from people who voted against him. A neat little racket.

Kevin

too funny. short of a revote (what’s called for) its the only sensible thing – the mere fact that Hillary left her name on the ballot (unlike the other candidates who agreed to remove them) gave her an unfair advantage.

Combined w/ the fact that she wasn’t pressed about seating these delegates until she was behind… pretty much says the only thing if the states won’t revote is to distribute them evenly.

But of course you don’t want that either, eh? So what are we to do?

Mr.Murder

The mere fact Obama took his name off the ballot gave him a disadvantage to play the victim card with.

However, the first two states moved their dates forward to remain ahead, as did South Carolina?

How about we don’t seat Iowa and South Carolina either? Oops, there goes any lead you could claim for the Golden One who doesn’t take notes well or keep a neat desk.
TeakWoodKite

One person one vote, nothing more nothing less. Let the chips fall where they may.

The expression of power you advance can not hear the truth being spoken to it.

The American electorate has been geologically compressed for 7 years straight and the fault lines, when they snap will will make the Valdez, Good Friday earthquake, look like a mere bump in the road.
jwrjr

You laugh at my comment, but you have no answer for it.

Kathy

How hard is it to start a third party? What would have to be done?

Kevin

just a matter of raising the money, support and banning Nader from membership in the bylaws.
Fleaflicker

The Green Party is a third party. And currently they don’t have a candidate in the race.

Andy

Dean says:

The supporters should keep their mouths shut about this stuff on both sides because that is harmful to the potential victory of a Democrat,” Dean told the AP.

Is Dean delusional? Is threatening the people? Since when does the DNC orders to keep your “Mouth shut” ?
What an awesome expression of democracy!! Unbelievable he gets to keep his job after this.

TeakwoodKite

Just subscribed to the DCCC and said:

When the DNC allows Florida and Michigan to have their votes counted and Dr. Dean understands that telling Democratic voters to “shut up” will not make his candidate, Obama can not win in the GE, I will revisit this. ARE YOU GETTING THIS? ARE YOU LISTENING?

http://bluelyon.blogspot.com carissa

Keep my mouth shut? KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT???

Excuse me, Dr. Dean? My answer to his email.
Douglas

This wasn’t an issue when the Hillary campaign was in front and didn’t need Florida and Michigan to give her an excuse to stay in the race.

Florida and Michigan agreed to the rules, then they broke them. A year and a half ago. Back when the Hillary campaign and Hillary herself were boasting that she was the presumptive nominee.

Unfortunately the voters of America, the fly in Hillary’s ointment, decided they liked Barack Obama as their preferred candidate and now he’s leading. Rather convincingly.

So all of a sudden Fl and Mi become the evil “DNC hearts OBAMA machine” vs “Hillary for DEMOCRACY and all that other stuff we didn’t really care about a year and a half ago or actually whenever Barack Obama wins things”.

Is that the same democracy in which she repeatedly tells PLEDGED delegates nationwide that even though they’re pledged doesn’t mean they need to stick with the decision of the people they represent?

Does that include the democracy in which the bully boy tactics of 20 billionaires threaten the DNC if they don’t do as they want?

Is that the same democracy in which the Clinton campaign has consistently downplayed and shrugged shoulders at states they didn’t win in?

I can but imagine the gaskets that would be blowing if it was the Obama campaign acting this way.

Douglas

I should also add – to say out one side of your mouth that voters are being disenfranchised in Fl and Mi, then out the other encourage the disenfranchisement of millions of more voters by repeatedly reminding their pledged delegates that they can ignore the rules themselves and switch over, is wonderful irony.

I look forward to the high pitched letters you guys will be writing to the Hillary campaign threatening to pull your donations until she remedies her blatant disregard for the democratic process.

mimi

“Unfortunately the voters of America, the fly in Hillary’s ointment, decided they liked Barack Obama as their preferred candidate and now he’s leading. Rather convincingly“

Yet so afraid of a re-vote.

On another blog, a woman in Idaho described going to her caucus where about 60 people showed up.She said they were pretty evenly split with the Obama supporters being very agressive, but the Hillary supporters did manage to hold their ground. But Obama did win. She said there are 4,000 people in her town. Hardly a fair representation of the elctorate of people who had to work and couldn’t show up to caucus.

But I love her final statement in which she opined that it probably didn’t matter because no way was her state going to go Democratic in Nov anyway.

‘Convincingly’, Yeah…. right.
Mr.Murder

Dean has little choice in the matter.

“Remain calm. All is well.”

The big money is telling him who to bat for.

TeakWoodKite

Mr. Murder, your a Yankee’s fan?

jm korbel

Isn’t it too funny for words when Obama supporters attempt to display reason (merely omitting logic and known facts)?!

Anyway, sorry to correct you Kevin (comment above) but the DNC did not simply refuse funds. They categorically refused privately volunteered funding in FLA. And Obamanites in MI blocked local passage of a revote (before their State House took its break. (For those on KoolAid, please don’t bother to comment – just look up the true facts.

Regarding the DNC: they don’t appear to read contents of incoming email. I sent them a full page complaint and they replied with an email asking me for money. I deleted it but a smarter blogger answered their request, marked it ZERO dollars and said bluntly why in the comment box. This is probably a better way to get them to listen.

There is a site organizing a list of PROTESTERS, as a PETITION to redress FLA/MI disenfranchisement. All interested, please sign on and forward the petition to your non Koolaid drinking friends. Especially send it to all “garlic noses” whom you know. Italians don’t take BO or his Rev lightly.

Here is the link where all can sign on:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/seatourdelegates/signatures-158.html

Lastly, for the growing numbers who are ready to jump ship – ie, intelligent, responsible Democrats who are totally fed up with the collective insanity of Obamamania (including in the MSM and DNC) a movement has been intitiated to show we
mean business:

A website domain has been established for a write-in campaign for Hillary Clinton (if that becomes necessary). It has no affiliation with the Clinton campaign. (They don’t even know about it.) It is an escape hatch for those of us who cannot bear the irresponsible alternatives. If you are also disenchanted with the DNC, go here to request being placed on the mailing list. The organizers are volunteers who are currently strategizing how we can best get our collective VOICE heard. To keep abreast to this link with democracy in action, just send your email address (and/or good ideas) to:

info@writehillaryin.com

Please forward the FLA/MI petition site and the new (if no alternative) writeHillaryin site to all who may wish to participate.
http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

“The delegates will be seated” — the DNC people say, meaning “after the other states have chosen the nominee.” They are twisting meaning.

And the same when they say “the will of the people”, no longer meaning “the popular vote” but “the number of pledged delegates.”
http://1950democrat.livejournal.com 1950democrat

Please distinguish:

1. The DNC correcting their own foul-up by immediately finding an alternative ‘punishment’ for FL and MI — even if it requires an emergency meeting of one of their committees — so that the voters and the campaigns are no longer impacted. — YES

2. The DNC negotiating some sort of agreement with the Obama and Clinton campaigns that would put a ceiling on their spending each week. And forbid them from talking about each other; make them focus on McCain, and/or on their policies. — YES

3. The DNC, Supers,or any other big wigs trying to cut short the process before all states have spoken. — NO

(As I said on another post, they could strip pledges not delegates: send in all the delegates from FL/MI as Uncommitted, let O and C woo them individually.)