Thousands Protest War + Open Thread : NO QUARTER

Comment by Fred C. Dobbs | 2007-10-28 23:13:37

Where’s the Addled Puppet Raygunz when we need him to call for a, “Bloodbath.” Or Rhodes of Ohio? Doesn’t he have some National Guard heroes ready to reprise their 1970 gig at Kent State?

I’ll tell you, with Republicans like these running the government it’s just damned possible that a woman or black man or Italian-American or a Mormon could be elected president…

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Comment by chris | 2007-10-29 00:43:02

Fred, interesting times.
I remember a prof friend from Kent who told me he kind of went off on his class one day. Its a pop culture type of class. And he said, “have you any freaking idea what campus you are on!?” “Why are you so apathetic and tuned out? Kids died here on campus to stand up for their rights and you fall asleep in here for a class you pay for. What the fu…

end of blah

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Comment by Bill Keyes | 2007-10-28 23:17:14

HILLARY GOES FOR THE KILL

OBAMA PROMISES A FORCEFUL STAND AGAINST CLINTON

LETS THE GAMES BEGIN

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Comment by chris | 2007-10-29 00:40:43

protest is good, protest if vital, but unfortunately up till now many were dismissed, why will this be different? I didn’t hear about the timing of this until I was getting reports about now past event protest. The only one I saw came days before from Ramsey Clarke’s Impeach.org site. I don’t know of the numbers in Texas or Houston proper.

It is my hope that some political sobriety will hit the citizens soon so that when protests DO happen, we don’t have it turn into confusing vaudeville shows with protesters doing the catepillar in the street and arriving with people who are not interested in change but love to be in conflict. I don’t want to second guess any of the protesters about motivation, but if I could envision the best message, it would be unified and almost silent. OMNIPRESENT.

The last thing these jackasses want is united resistance, thus exploiting our differences, exploiting our prejudice is key to success. I’m trying to see how I am affected by it at all levels, but I know we have to be careful to see who our “enemies” are. I find I can relate to supposed “conservatives” about tons of things, and a few topics are charged on purpose to keep us divided.

“Dude, have you ever had an abortion?”, “No”, “Was it the first thing you thought of this morning.”, “No, food was.” “Then why do you spend so much political time on abortion instead of healthy or abundent food?” or immigration, prayer in school, secular progressives, al-Qaida, AIDS, Ebola, Britney, and all the other terrifying topics that are meant to keep you thankful for your crappy job and crappy relationships.

So, we have protests now and El-Baredai has said it isn’t likely Iran is making nukes…what next? Is it really their intent to topple Iran so they have a clean sweep of the region before they leave office?
Didn’t they say they wanted to do this as early as 1997? That PNAC crowd wanted the Unical, Baku Pipeline, American Hegemony in the region right?

over…

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Comment by mudkitty | 2007-10-29 14:51:36

Protest marches are ineffective. Shortly before the war, the multiple upon multiple millions of people, in ALL the major cities of the world, who protested the war, were written off (by the MSM – which, don’t kid yourselves, still matters) as a bunch of dirty hippies.

But then if you get 150 people at a right wing event Terry Schiavo style, where the media out-numbers the protesters 4 to 1, now that’s when a protest can have an impact. Sarcasm button on.

Marching ain’t gonna do it. Sorry folks. I don’t know what’s gonna do it, but marchin ain’t it.

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Comment by Leslie | 2007-10-29 15:05:34

All that may be true Mudkitty, but the protests still send a message to the world that a lot of Americans aren’t going to remain silent either.

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Comment by chris | 2007-10-29 18:03:30

I agree Leslie, it is important that people know there are many Americans who will not remain silent.

I just wish I could see the protests here resemble some of the more successful protests around the world and it doesn’t seem possible. Its as if its not in our makeup.

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Comment by PrchrLady | 2007-10-29 20:19:08

Marches by themselves will not accomplish things, but they serve an important function. First, they demonstrate that we will not leave the issue die a kind or quiet death. They raise awareness, even if only on a small level amoung those who encounter them. This in itself is good. Peaceful, von violent protest, with marches and other forms of civil action can and could change a course of history. Witness in our lifetime the results of many civil and human rights movements.

I agree that by thenmselves, it would be pointless, but these voices are growing stronger. I want to know what others are doing, and protests and the speakers who were at some of the events is very heartening. Kucinich had a great You Tube segment on for viewing. I am trying to insert the embed code here. don’t know if it will work, but am trying.

now, just incase it doesn’t, here is cut and paste… http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/28102

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Comment by lester | 2007-10-29 17:07:10

I was at the Boston protest. it was very good

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Comment by Shirin | 2007-10-29 18:11:13

From what I hear, the attendance at Saturday’s protests was very low – a few tens of thousands. I guess this is better than nothing, but it hardly sends a powerful message to anyone that only ten thousand here and twenty thousand there were willing to spend part of their Saturday in some effort opposing their government’s warmongering.

Very disappointing.

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Comment by PrchrLady | 2007-10-29 19:20:28

Yes, I am dissappointed too, although from what I have read, many good things might yet come from it.

This is an open thread, so I thought I might take a while tonight and try to catch up on sharing with all of you a few things, that have been on my mind these past few weeks. I will be writing on word pad, so I can cut and paste, so that I won’t lose two hours of work at the click of a button… someday I might figure this computer junk out…

Susan, I hope you are well. I have you in my thoughts and prayers, and will touch base with you in a day or two, and keep ya on your toes. Nothing like having a rehab nurse for a friend??? Don’t get whimpy on any of us now. Glad walking is less painful, and that you are home again.

Leslie, do you know what happened to recent comments section??? doesn’t display for me. Has been a lot of recent ‘changes’ to my commputer, probably with help of Comcast… Can’t get to some of the websites I usually frequent, for past few days, or get lots of error messages. Is web site being tracked???

Hoops, thanks for the kind words, and from others as well, and for the encouragement to continue to look within myself for the good that I can yet still do… When I read your last post, I had just finished an article, and two songs featured by Mary MacEleen… here is the link: http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/print_friendly.php?p=opedne_mary_mac_071028_the_eve_of_destructi.htm

Here comes the Sun, revisits another time and place when so many of us woke up each day with this same feeling of doom hanging heavy on on. I sometimes miss the forest from the trees, but this time is not so much different. I pray those of us who can, will continue to light the torch for the world, and bring hope and justice to those who are in need. I will talk more on this latter, when I get all my thoughts together. Right now, I’m just ramblin away, and want to post so I don’t lose everything. Hope to chat later.

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Comment by Leslie | 2007-10-29 19:33:01

PrchrLady,
Regarding the comments section loading? I don’t know, I’ve been having trouble lately loading NQ’s homepage too with Firefox or Safari. Also having trouble loading other blogs as well. It’s really slow. But because I’m having trouble with other blogs besides NQ, not sure the problem is limited to NQ? Dunno.

Regarding the telecoms limiting access to certain websites? Good question. Heard Congress wanted answers to that question too.

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Comment by PrchrLady | 2007-10-29 20:04:29

>—Leslie

I read that as well. I guesss what is so disappointing is that they seem to want to have questions answered, yet never seem to do anything to make it happen… same ol dirty trick as rethugs… good show old chap… just don’t DO anything… discouraging. we must demand change, and not accept anything less. HOW???

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Comment by Leslie | 2007-10-29 20:09:31

Well, for one thing, if you suspect your website provider is limiting access to certain sites, I’d call/write them and ask? You can always switch.

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Comment by chris | 2007-10-29 21:43:52

Comcast sucks. More in a second.

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Comment by chris | 2007-10-29 21:46:18

Yep, they still suck.

That being said, if Comcast continues their ways we will have to teach them about “Ma Bell”. They claim they aren’t doing anything unethical or inappropriate, but you should do some homework on Comcast when you get a chance.

I know too much about the web to be fooled by these gradeA jackholes, and if I go to search NoQuarterUSA and can’t get there, they better hope they aren’t the reason.

Comcast Sucks.
They suck so bad I want Time Warner back. And you can’t suck much more than that without being in a Minnesota airport stall.
over.

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Comment by PrchrLady | 2007-10-29 22:04:23

Absultely sucks!!! they have been in on this whole NSA thing since before 9/11. I was involved with them a couple of times, after my cumputer was hacked into, by ’someone’… oh, so innocent, and yet no one believed. I have communications intercepted, and so on. to the point that at some times I became fearful of writing or sharing anything without it becoming seen by the eyes of BigBro…

And all the telecoms. They are right there involved in it as well. No use complaining, hard to turn the wheels in reverse, without damaging the engine, while it is still going on… Who is there even among our hopeful leaders that is going to fight the good fight for our Freedom??? We need to get control of this issue.

Last word for tonight. I read earlier today the Sibel Edmonds is willing to tell all in the State Secrects issues following 911. Link: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5197#more-5197
This is very important, and she is a very brave woman. She says she will tell everything she knows, if she can be interviewed on MSM, cable, TV, unedited. This, woman is a Patriot, and should be assisted in any way possible to bring these truths to light. Like Valerie and Joe Wilson, she deserves help and support in being so brave, in standing up for our ideals. I also hope that she has hired good protection…

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Comment by Delia | 2007-10-30 16:32:28

Yeah. I’ve got comcast and I’ve been thinking about switching to the local dsl provider, which is Qwest in my neighborhood. Last time I had dsl it was so slow I’d about fall asleep while it was booting up. I’m wondering if things have gotten better.

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Comment by Shirin | 2007-10-29 20:11:00

Off topic, but…

I am listening at the moment to an interview with Valerie Plame on KPFA Berkeley’s Flashpoints program. You can listen live at kpfa.org, and the program will also be archived, and is available to download, listen online, or as a podcast.

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Comment by chris | 2007-10-29 21:50:59

We can’t hear Flashpoints in Houston because the Fascist manager of the fake progressive outlet, KPFT, has removed the show from the listeners. His cowardly ways are legendary, like when he let local gadflies attack a professor as “anti-semetic” without appeal or chance to be heard. I think said professor is an ass, but he hasn’t demonstrated anti-semetic behavior.

This coward GM caved to pressure to remove the show by people who want talk-lite. They love cheap rodeo music and could care less about whether you hear the news. He wanted their donations, so he caved and showed how cowardly he really is.

Further, he lied to the supporters in Houston, and to the national board for Pacifica about Flashpoints, indicating he had “met with the community” and “met with local programmers” when he had not done anything more than ask people at a station meeting if they liked Flashpoint and what they thought about it in the schedule. All there were more afraid of losing their own shows that they didn’t chime in, and he took this as support to remove the only show that reports on the Palestine conflicts.

Lew Hill is disgraced.
over.

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Comment by Shirin | 2007-10-30 03:41:55

Well, thank heaven for the internet, because you can download or listen online, or if you are an iPod person, you can download the podcast, which is what I do.

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Comment by chris | 2007-10-30 04:15:55

yes, quite podcast friendly on this end.

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Comment by PrchrLady | 2007-10-29 20:47:59

Excellent interview. thanks,Shirin… listening on, better than TV… Flashpoints…

Just a quick note here, just read that Blackwater was given immunity, by the State Dept. What is going on??? why did Condi not mention it during her testimony last week? They need to all be sent to the Hague. Abominable!!! Here are links:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071029/blackwater-prosecutions/

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/29/guess-who-has-immunity-now/

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Comment by Teaeopy | 2007-10-29 21:08:37

Given that Department of State is not a legislative body, if they’ve promised immunity they’ve promised something they’re not authorized to deliver.

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Comment by PrchrLady | 2007-10-29 21:12:50

and who is to stop them? probably coivered by one of bushie boy’s signing statements. This is sick, if no immunity, then why is FBI declining to follow up. Something seriously stinks.

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Comment by chris | 2007-10-29 22:12:37

This was what I said to my rep, to two local reps and to Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer’s office today, “This is absolutely not acceptable. You do not grant immunity to people suspected of murder. You do not grant immunity to people who are being accused by the Iraq government at a time when we are supposedly installing peace.”

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Comment by Shirin | 2007-10-29 23:08:16

Overall, it was a really good interview. However, I was disappointed to hear her repeat the common lie that Saddam threw the inspectors out in 1998. That is not what happened at all. Saddam demanded that the AMERICAN inspectors, and only the American inspectors be removed after it became known that the Clinton administration had placed spies (as I recall it was CIA) among the inspectors, and following a series of escalating provocations on the part of the inspection teams in which they attempted to violate the agreed-upon terms of the inspection regime. After some negotiations, the parties reached an agreement, and inspections resumed as before, but Clinton had his pretext to bomb, so the the inspectors were all ordered out of the country by their chief at the UN so Clinton could have his little bombing spree.

After that, quite understandably, Saddam was not eager to have the inspectors return.

And that’s it in a nutshell. Clinton did not bomb Iraq because Saddam kicked the inspectors out, and in fact the inspections were proceeding when Clinton advised the UN to remove the inspectors. In fact, Clinton was planning to bomb before the little episode with the American spies – um, inspectors – being expelled. You see, it seems those spies that had been placed among the inspectors by the Clinton administration were locating targets for the planned bombing.

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Comment by Shirin | 2007-10-30 03:43:04

Blackwater was give immunity by Paul Bremer anyway, so it really doesn’t make all that much difference.

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Comment by ybnormal | 2007-10-29 21:36:05

At the risk of making those under 40 tired of VietNam parallels, there are useful lessons.

Public demonstrations alone did not end the VietNam war. The earliest demonstrations at Berkeley were somewhere around ten years or so before the war ended. If demonstrating was working, you’d have thought it would work quicker. Even burning Bank of America to the ground at UC Santa Barbara didn’t do it.

Not even Walter Cronkite speaking out. He wasn’t a guest op-ed hack, he was regarded as ‘the most trusted man in America’, and was the anchor of CBS Evening News, CBS’s flagship news broadcast, and this was a position which at the time made him the bearer of the torch ignited by Edward R. Murrow. But after he went on the air and denounced the VietNam war and said it should be ended, the war still had several years to go.

Not the Pope, not Country Joe shouting “gimme an F”, none of these events or any others did it by themselves.

What did do it was the cumulative effect of all of it combined together over time. Speaking out is not a waste of time. You meet people, form alliances, hatch plans to pressure government representatives, and if continued long and hard enough, the snowball rolling downhill starts to get bigger.

I know, all those years is a long time. But the sooner we collaborate and stongly demand in larger organized groups, not just in the street, but also in PACs, the sooner the effect will be.

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Comment by Thinker | 2007-10-30 01:33:26

Plenty of upbeat comments here. To answer your question, Leslie, no I didn’t go. If it had been held at Darling Harbour, Sydney, would I have gone? No.

The day of the successful protest has ground to a rhetorical halt. I am more interested in what happens post protest. After all the fun and games and hymm singing, what materialises? Everyone feels in the zone at the event[s]. Everyone is ever hopeful after the events, but nothing really changes as a result.

The real pain will occur when people, in general, refuse to follow the systems, don’t uphold the laws en masse. Then those faced with perpetrating mistermeaners legally will have a stark choice: declare war on society or remove the laws. The media says little about the stark choice facing the low class people of Ukraine. There has been lots of jostling around “bully” Russia and “hero” Viktor Yushchenko, but the practicality is the businesses exploit “cheap” labour – Ukraine owned and run businesses. And when the prices went up those low class people had to either sacrafice food or fuel – and it’s mighty cold there, so fuel is as essential as food. Tough choice!

We are witnessing real pain in Ukraine where the prissy folks are content to postest, rather than down tools. Therefore nothing happens as with the result of most protests. Business continues to exploit, Viktor continues to be the media hero and the people still get screwed.

That’s what I’m talking about. Bush has thrown down a guantlet that Clinton will pick up. Beware. We are entering an age of new standards.

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Comment by mudkitty | 2007-10-30 11:11:43

But what about marching? Effective? Or not?

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Comment by hoosierhoops | 2007-10-30 12:54:51

The dread of open thread…
______________________________________
Comment by mudkitty | 2007-10-30 11:11:43

But what about marching? Effective? Or not?

The hoopster says if you are young..queue up the song ’street fighting man’ by the stones..put on a bandana, torn blue jeans, grab your freak flag and hit the streets and march…it may not do much good but you’ll feel better about yourself..( that’s what Dr. Phil would probably say)
Personally.. i just call or write my representives..
Not near as exciting as a march..plus when my blue jeans get torn, mrs. hoopster just throws them out..
She just doesn’t get it..

In other news.. Hoops season starts tomarrow!! that’s exciting..The big football game is on sunday between the Colts and Pats and the world series just ended..as you know we had the blow out party last sunday at our house..mrs. hoopster was thrilled to come home to stale cigar smoke, empty beer cans and just a barely cleaned kitchen with still a couple guys sitting around discussing the cover 2 defense passionately.. ( hey..I don’t complain following her around for hours holding the bags while she looks at each and every friggin item in the store..Would this look cute on me? What are you supposed to say? I tried the old everything looks cute on you line once..she just said ‘You’re useless’
seriously..Mrs. hoopster rocks
regards….

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Comment by Shirin | 2007-10-30 13:32:49

“The hoopster says if you are young..”

Why only if you are young? Why not if you are young, old, or in between? Why not if you can’t walk, ride? Why not take the whole family, as many generations as you can get together in one place? That’s one of the problems, you know? People find all kinds of stupid excuses to stay home, and so instead of hundreds of thousands you get a few paltry thousands. SHAME on you, Hoopster, shame for being lazy.

“queue up the song ’street fighting man’ by the stones..”

Why? Only young people who listen to the Stones should march? Why not middle aged people who prefer Brahms? Why not old people who love Um Kalthoum, or Marcel Khalife, or even Kenny Gee?

“put on a bandana, torn blue jeans, grab your freak flag and hit the streets and march…”

Oh for heaven’s sake! Just the image we need to convey! A bunch of bandana-and-torn-blue-jeans wearing, freak flag (whatever that is) waving children who wanna go back to the ’60’s – great!

“it may not do much good but you’ll feel better about yourself..”

It may not do much good, but at least you will not have consented via your silence.

“( that’s what Dr. Phil would probably say)”

I’m pretty sure Dr. Phil would not recommend any kind of anti-war activities or action or speech opposing his boy Georgie. I have a feeling he’d vote for Dubya again if he could.

“Personally.. i just call or write my representives..”

I see. So, it’s an either or thing? You can’t do both?

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Comment by HoosierHoops | 2007-10-30 14:45:45

Shirin: Never ever take me seriously on an open thread.
I was just talking tongue and cheek..
Lighten up alittle shirin..By now I hope you’ll realize the hoopster likes to have alittle fun on open thread.
Kind Regards,

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Comment by Shirin | 2007-10-30 15:23:40

Well, Hoops, I have a good and easy sense of humour, but this is rather a huge life and death issue, and I have difficulty taking it with anything but deadly seriousness, so forgive me for not appreciating your tongue-in-cheek approach, open thread or not.

And by the way where WERE you on Saturday?

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Comment by HoosierHoops | 2007-10-30 16:17:50

Shirin: I really shouldn’t reply to you..
Look i told you i was being lighthearted..yet you persist.. Look I know the war is life and death.
Jezus shirin..I have a son there that just turned 21 years old. My wife cried herself to sleep on my shoulder last night worried sick…
WE REALLY HAVE SO MUCH TO LOSE!!
yet..every open thread i try to show some lighthearted humour.. i always have and always will..That’s just who i am..
So just please ignore me and move to the next post…We’ll talk about serious stuff in other threads..OK?

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Comment by Shirin | 2007-10-30 17:20:27

I realize that you have something very personal at stake, and I realize that humour is one way to cope with things like this. I was just trying to explain my reaction.

The probability is extremely high that your son will return home to the safety and comfort of his country, and shortly thereafter will get on with his life. An entire country has been all but destroyed, a million or so human beings robbed of their lives, another four plus million robbed of their homes, and an entire population of around 25 million robbed of any semblance of normal life. There is no end in sight unless someone can do something effective, and all but a few tens of thousands of Americans can bother to sacrifice a few hours on a Saturday as their government prepares to attack yet another country, and another. It all looks very hopeless, so I get a little bit desperate sometimes.

Mamas and papas don’t let your sons grow up to be soldiers.

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Comment by Taters | 2007-10-30 15:02:49

Hiya Hoopster,
How’s the 501 C3 looking?
A big old hat tip from me. Please let me know when you get that wonderful endeavor up & running. I know some of the legal stuff is a pain but it’s well worth it, IMHO. Especially for such a great cause.
I get the impression you’re a big guy – with an even bigger heart.
Btw – You might want to let your local BBB in Indy know when that’s all together, so you can be in their data base. Again Hoopster – kudos!

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Comment by HoosierHoops | 2007-10-30 16:36:10

Thanks so much Taters.. I’m supposed to get an update from my lawyer soon..you know what they say about lawyers..they are just like sperm..only 1 in a million do any good.
Thought about ya Sunday..Had a bunch of the boys together to eat and watch football.. it got a little loud and wild when i turned to one of my buds and told him..’I need you to download everything you can on Etta James’ Why he asked..
Heard she’s got a smoke’n guitarist..just do it!!

anyday now I’ll have a CD full of MP3’s to check out…But to be a good citizen..if i like it i’ll buy it..

I really am considering using my charity to do more in Africa with the Plumpynut food that Doctors without borders distribute..very inspiring..
Mostly in the Indy i contribute food and cash for the soup kitchens such as wheelers.
Also..
I thought i’d contact the Pacers this year and do a charity for the troops..
The thought is to have a couple players do a shoot around with people that contribute a certain amount of money for the Care packages we send out..Some people would pay good money to shoot around with a real player.. I’m approaching the Pacers with the proposal.. ‘ Hoops For Troops’.
I think if done right we could send out hundreds if not thousands of care packages to the troops.

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Comment by PrchrLady | 2007-10-30 16:57:45

Wow Hoops that
s great!!! Count me in!!! I am close to Taters, here in Ann Arbor area, and maybe we can figure out a way to spread this wide open… want to hear all the details… What other kinds of help are you looking for ???

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Comment by justsomeone | 2007-10-30 17:28:28

HoosierHoops, Medecins Sans Frontieres & Hoops 4 Troops…very righteous. I like it, alot. I just read a freaky story over @ MSNBC about the Army Corps of Engineers is worried a large Iraqi dam could blow. Might need to include some life jackets & inflatable rafts in those care packages. Man, I hope that doesn’t happen…the story said the Corps said as many as 500,000 could drown. Anyone have an opinion on that dam story?

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Comment by hoosierhoops | 2007-10-30 22:00:40

the story about the dam about to break is very distubing..according to inside reports the news has been kept secret so as not to alarm the Iraqi people.
Can you believe that? This dam has been rated the worst in the world and most dangerous and we don’t want anyone to know? Wonder how that would fly in LA or NY?
Very disturbing to say the least…
You know we often malign the MSM for thier reporting..They got it right this time.

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Comment by hoosierhoops | 2007-10-30 22:24:07

Preacherlady..thanks.
If I can get Larry Bird to bite on the hoops4troops fund-raiser..it may spread to other NBA cities like Detroit.
Regarding your earlier post on music..
I got the chance to meet Barry McGuire years ago and he played eve of destruction for a small group of friends ( i can’t recall who i knew there). He also said he had found the Lord and became very religious.. I haven’t seen nor heard of him since..I hope he found peace in his life…
Keep up the postings preacherlady. Your voice is inspiring to many.
The Hoopster

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Comment by PrchrLady | 2007-10-30 23:01:33

Hoopster, thanks… Bird is a NICE guy! In one of my past lifes, I met Barry McGuire at a party downtown… Will be willing to help with this for you in anyway I can. Don’t have the old contacts I did years ago, but I still can help you wherever else I can. Dave Bing might be a good contact if you know him. Think he is pretty active in some youth BB things still…

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Comment by lester | 2007-10-31 10:12:39

I guess most people here aren’t big Ron Paul fans, but we did have a large contingent at the Boston rally and the others.

and here I will take advantage of the open thread to post:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/016523.html

dr paul on Jey Leno last night. I don’t know how this happened but I’m glad it did. GREAT interview. thank you Jay Leno though I can’t fairly say I watch you show regularly. or at all.

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Comment by mudkitty | 2007-10-31 10:24:59

Lester – why don’t you tell us Paul’s political and personal views on reproductive rights. (Sound of Lester googleing furiously…)

Forget it, man. You can’t spin this.

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Comment by Centrocitta | 2007-10-31 10:53:25

What time is it in the United States? I missed Ron Paul on Jay Leno last night because Bush has even screwed up the date for changing the clocks. Americans are becoming more and more isolated due to his “brilliant” ideas.

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Comment by mudkitty | 2007-10-31 13:07:06

It’s better to put off standard time, so the kiddies can have light for Halloween. Is that so wrong?

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Comment by lester | 2007-10-31 17:17:30

mudkitty- he believes it should be left to the states. He’s personally pro life. like Jack Murtha, harry Reid, and probably Larry johnson who is, i believe, a republican. all morality decisions are supposed to be left to the states.

spin what?

cenotrocitta- johnny rotten even gave Paul a shout out during “anarchy in the UK” . big up to the brits in the hizzy

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