UPDATED: Protestors to Clinton: “Iron My Shirt”
By SusanUnPC on January 7, 2008 at 9:42 PM in Clinton, Women and Children
JUST IN! GET IT WHILE SUPPLIES LAST! Here’s the very latest in misogynistic expression that’s “Made In the U.S.A.”:
Me? I’d rather send that $24.99 to Emily’s List, which supports pro-choice women candidates across the country.
ORIGINAL: “Protesters ask Clinton to iron shirts,” A.P./Yahoo News:
Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign stop was interrupted on Monday when two men stood in the crowd and began screaming, “Iron my shirt!” during one the New York senator’s final appearances before New Hampshire voters cast primary ballots Tuesday. [...]
“Ah, the remnants of sexism — alive and well,” Clinton said to applause in a school auditorium.
The two men were removed from the hall after raising a pair of signs that said, “iron my shirt!” They also shouted the same slogan. [...]
The overflow crowd burst into applause and some began shouting, “Iron my shirt” as the two were taken from the hall.
“As I think has been abundantly demonstrated, I am also running to break through the highest and hardest glass ceiling,” she said.
The United States ranks 67th in the world in the number of women it has elected to office — between Zimbabwe and Turkistan, according to BBC World News.
Will we ever come to grips with the rampant sexism still alive in this country, and how it punishes women through lower wages, fewer opportunities, stereotypes, sexual assaults, and lost dreams? Will we ever let women be who they really are, instead of forcing them to be twice as good to get half as far, while expecting them to be simultaneously smart and sexy, tough enough to issue an order to a general while sweet enough to charm your socks off? Let me tell you a couple stories:
I was fortunate to be selected to be a page in the Washington state legislature. But I’ll never forget the hand of the white-haired senator who fondled and pinched my rearend in the elevator. And I’ll never forget how, back then, it never dawned on me to complain to anyone — because we women didn’t complaint about such abuse back then. It scarred me, and I dwelled on it, but there was no relief for me.
There was nowhere to complain back then. Now, I could complain. Now, I could get action. Hell, I perhaps could even sue if I wanted to. I might even end the senator’s career. These days.
So how did we get from “those days” to “these days” — even as imperfect as they are? Especially in the United States?
We got there in good part because of women like the courageous feminists who spoke out, and through women like Hillary Clinton and me, who began to speak up and demand change.
It blows my mind that young women, these days, have so little awareness of just how far we’ve come. They don’t know how hard it was.
They haven’t heard, like I did, young men at one of the nation’s top universities say that what a certain uptight female student needed was a “good rape.” They haven’t heard, like I did, the men at an Esalen Institute weekend seminar brag about how they’d held one inhibited woman down and forcibly had sex with her to get her to loosen up. They haven’t heard, like I did, that it was unfortunate that I wrote “like a woman.”
Hillary Clinton knows. She remembers. What’s so incredible about her is that she has never let it stop her. Even when they call her a “bitch” and a “lesbian” and every other name in the book. But she remembers. Oh yes she does:
Growing up, there were sports we couldn’t play, schools we couldn’t attend, and jobs that essentially had a “men only” sign on them.
As an eighth grader I was captivated by space-travel. I wrote to NASA asking how to apply to be an astronaut — they wrote back explaining that these positions weren’t open to women. Well today, Iowa’s own Peggy Whitson has been appointed the first female Commander of the International Space Station.
Years later, when I was deciding where I wanted to attend law school, I was coolly informed by a Harvard Law professor, and I quote, “We don’t need any more women at Harvard.” So I went to Yale. [laughter] And my entering class at Yale Law School — where I decided to go instead — had 235 students, of whom just 27 were women.
Today, women are the majority of students in law schools. As a young lawyer, when I told a colleague that I might want to practice courtroom law, he replied that, that was impossible, because I didn’t have a wife. … Read more of her speech on “WOMEN’S RIGHTS: Mary Louise Smith Lecture at the Catt Center for Women and Politics,” Iowa State University, October 24, 2007
Perhaps that is why she spoke out so courageously — with such rich anger — for women in Beijing in 1995:
“HILLARY CLINTON, IN CHINA, DETAILS ABUSE OF WOMEN“:
Speaking more forcefully on human rights than any American dignitary has on Chinese soil, Hillary Rodham Clinton catalogued a devastating litany of abuse that has afflicted women around the world today and criticized China for seeking to limit free and open discussion of women’s issues here.
“It is time for us to say here in Beijing, and the world to hear, that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women’s rights as separate from human rights,” Mrs. Clinton told the Fourth World Conference on Women assembled here.
“It is a violation of human rights when babies are denied food, or drowned, or suffocated, or their spines broken, simply because they are born girls,” Mrs. Clinton said, or “when women and girls are sold into slavery or prostitution for human greed.
“It is a violation of human rights when women are doused with gasoline, set on fire and burned to death because their marriage dowries are deemed too small” she continued, or “when thousands of women are raped in their own communities and when thousands of women are subjected to rape as a tactic or prize of war.”
While her comments concerned abuses that have taken place around the world — the burning of brides occurs in India for example, and rape has most recently been a tactic of war in Bosnia — her words took on a special resonance here in China, where the Administration has muted its public criticism of human rights abuses and is struggling to patch up frayed political relations.
China has been widely criticized for forcing women to be sterilized or have abortions as part of its policy of one child per family, and there are wide reports of female infanticide by parents who want a son. [...]
Mrs. Clinton’s gravity and directness seemed to please both Democratic and Republican members of the United States delegation here, and thus the speech may trump the political disputes that have plagued both Mrs. Clinton’s decision to travel here and the Administration’s approach to China.
She delivered her remarks after joining hundreds of delegates in a morning workshop on “women and health security.”
Addressing the full conference in the afternoon, Mrs. Clinton expanded on a theme that Pakistan’s Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto, raised on Monday when she told the delegates that violence against women thrives when there is a “crisis of silence and acquiescence.”
As Mrs. Clinton recited her litany from the podium, many delegates applauded, some cheered and others pounded the tables.
Continuing with references to domestic violence, genital mutilation, coercive abortions and sterilizations, Mrs. Clinton told the delegates from more than 180 countries, “If there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it be that human rights are women’s rights and women’s rights are human rights, once and for all.” …
She can do more than iron shirts. Can’t she.
:::::::::::::
For more on Hillary Clinton’s decades-long work for women and children, click here.
(Release: November 13)
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Amen to this, Susan. I’m not supporting HRC in the primaries, but I’m getting tempted to vote for her just because of the rampant sexism she faces.
This country seems way more ready to elect an African American man than it does a woman of any color.
I understand this impulse, but it strikes me as a very poor basis on which to choose a national president.
Shirin, I’m not saying I will vote for her. But boy, it’s tempting. You know, I’ve really pretty much put aside my anger at the systemic discrimination that women face and that I’ve had to deal with all my life, but sometimes it really does come back to me, and I’m pissed off all over again.
No one has epitomized the unconscious, ignorant, elitist, nose-in-the-air attitude against women in this country more “anon,” whose long-winded, ugly, sexist attitude is spewed throughout below.
Note my use of the adjective unconscious. I tell thee verily, women and conscious men: They who are sexist do not know what it is they do.
I agree with you. Frankly, I’m sick of men aligning themselves with other men, and as a woman we’re supposed to be above doing that? Hillary is not just any woman, she’s had years fighting for women’s rights. Plus, I can’t think of any of the men candidates who would defend a woman’s reproduction right more than another woman would. As Hillary said, it’s personal. Sexism is the dirty little ism that is running uncontested in this country. Thanks to Hillary’s candidacy it’s being pushed out into the open.
I am with you. I would have really like to get completely behind Hillary of Obama. Their stances on diplomacy with Iran were not clear enough for me. I want an anti “unnecessary” war candidate
that probably has something to do with the fact that this particular woman is insincere, untrustworthy, and manipulative. i’d love to see a woman in office, but i don’t even think hillary is human. in the same way that the contents of her knickers shouldn’t disqualify her from executive office, neither do they qualify her for it. i’m not voting for hillary because i’m not interested in having a president who is prone to triangulation and motivated by self-interest.
race and gender are the least of the differences between clinton and obama, whose entire campaign is about sincerity, honesty, and transparency– anthemas to the clinton machine.
Hillary is human. You’re just a knee jerk
Hill-hater whose buying into rightwing myths, but you’re only human.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×82277
you’re right. a politician with a vagina could not possibly be imperfect in any way. the only reason to oppose such a candidate must be ignorance and sexism.
man, please stop surfing the second wave.
i guess the problem with judging people by the content of their character is that when their character is questionable, they have to be responsible for it.
Do you think you could be even a little bit specific (or even factual and correct?) Or are you just a swiftboater?
As for perfection, you need to re-read and re-think, and not just knee jerk your Hill-hate. No one said that Hill is perfect, and certainly no one said “a vaginal politician” is perfect. You keep throwing up straw-women, and blood-red herrings. Again, I ask you to be specific, without recounting GOP talking points.
I’m starting to smell a troll. Perhaps you might want to get paid for all the work you are doing, wittingly or unwittingly, for the right wing.
Excuse me, do you know Hillary Clinton personally. Unless you do, I don’t see how you can call her all those names. Insincere and untrustworthy based on what?!! What you’ve read in the press or seen on television?
I would love to find the MSM mute button. This Stephenwolf syndrome is is enough to make anyone tear up.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppenwolf_(novel)
Steppenwolf …sorry.
I am very curious about the Esalen incident. About when did that happen?
Email me at susanunpc at gmail dot com and i’ll tell you.
This site really was much better before it dived into the election race. I really hope that it moves back to Larry Johnson’s field of expertise soon, which is what made the site something of a center of gravity in the first place.
(News flash, Susan: American women are not “oppressed”. You need to wake up. According to the Department of Labor, 51% of “managerial and professional jobs” nationwide are occupied by women. According to the Department of Education, 51% of university and college students nationwide are women. This is not “oppression”, nor is the massive, multi-billion-dollar-per-annum industry of celebrity commentators and bobbleheads authoring theories of “oppression” of women in the US, which as a nation, dotes more on women and fixates more on women than any other country on Planet Earth bar none. It’s time to grow up. The 1950’s were over, a long time ago.)
You must be a man. How can you so arrogantly assume to know what my life experience has been, or what I have witnessed firsthand?
Anon haven’t I seen you somewhere before? Oops! Was that in the police line-up for my rape?
I am so very sorry for your pain, and wish you the very best.
shut up
that was creepy and obnoxious and uncalled for
finally, i fucking resent you using an act like rape in a pathetic, weak, intellectually crippled attempt to silence any opinion which does not kiss the ass of your sacred ideological cows
you may have felt better typing that at me; on the other hand, you have basically done a disservice to any woman who ever actually had anything serious to say
no, no, not at all; disagreeing with ideological feminism does not create me as a “rapist”
i can disagree with you without being a “rapist”
you are as intellectually weak and dishonest as any of the Israeli boosters who claim that anyone who supports the rights of the innocent Palestinians being brutalized by the Israeli military is “anti-Semitic”. yes, you are at that intellectually weak and dishonest
i am not a “rapist” for disagreeing with you.
Silly bore. Keep going as you only show your true colors the longer you keep on.
ah, yes, “my true colors”! moooahahahahah!!!
True colors, true intellect and ability to argue in an adult fashion. If your arguments ever were relevant this comment shows you are you really are.
finally, susan, i don’t recall in the post you responded to from me, nor do i see in review, anything pertaining to “your life” or “what you have experienced”. and further, being a man is NOT A CRIME NOT A CRIME
i’ve got to learn to love these bastions of sex equality activism who start their conversations with their critics with an immediate condemnation of the critic based on the perceived sex of the critic.
Anon you must be male.
yes i am and the last time i checked that was not a status crime
i am a man and i have an opinion and i can disagree with a woman without being a “rapist” or a “sexist” or any of the other silence-you words and phrases used by some women who are caught up in the mythologized version of the American feminist struggle.
i am a man with a mind and an education and i can think, reason, speak aloud without shame or disgrace, and i am not a “rapist” for it.
being a man is NOT a crime, nor a shame or disgrace, and i am not going to be silenced and dismissed by creepy, weak dodges to points i make. i refuse to be silenced, and i am unafraid of empty condemnation, because i can think for myself and i have the mental fortitude not to let cheap shots or creepy little moves get me down
What you can’t do is know what is to be a woman and to face the challenges that a woman faces. Why pretend that you can? Opinions, sure why not? But based on what?
anon as one male to another i would like to urge you to shut the fuck up. your ranting and raving has revealed not only a very weak mind but a wide mysgonistic streak. i suspect you often have problems with females in your life dont you … i bet you frequently just have to straignten them out … hey.
yeah, dude, you’re right: being a man isn’t a crime. neither is being an apologist for the patriarchy. it’s just that one of those things is intensely foolish and depends on a profound amount of denial.
what do you gain by refuting the idea that sexism directed at women still exists in this country? certainly boys and men face a distinct set of issues of our own, and certainly the status of women has evolved significantly in the last half century, but that doesn’t change the fact that sex-based discrimination still happens across the nation.
your god damned right i’m a man! and i need make no apology to you, or any other, for it!
And you were born of woman. Try to get along without us.
Anon said:”This site really was much better before it dived into the election race. I really hope that it moves back to Larry Johnson’s field of expertise soon, which is what made the site something of a center of gravity in the first place.”
Because we don’t want someone like Larry Johnson commenting about elections when we can have pundits and pundidiots like Chris Matthews, Tucker Carlson, Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, Wolf Blitzer, Bill O’Reilly and on and on and on. You would think you’d be glad to hear some honest commentary and opinions that are backed up with FACTS!
“the US, which as a nation, dotes more on women and fixates more on women than any other country on Planet Earth bar none”
Uh, that’s MOST OF THE PROBLEM. The women I know DON’T WANT to be “doted on.”
Not OPPRESSED; NOR on a PEDESTAL.
I should have thought that was obvious.
You blindly and simplistically quote statistics to bolster your argument, feeling somehow no one can argue with NUMBERS, ignoring the realities of what women are telling you.
And you do this because you are, at heart, a misogynist, perhaps because of your mother, usually the case.
The greater point being, men who think like you are now running our government, and our wars, and we’re losing, catastrophically.
I just do not have the patience anymore, listening to stupid men whine from the depths of their injured little souls, so full of self hatred, so lacking in introspection.
HTH
Really, enough of the “oppression” canard. Women in this society are doted on and feminism is a multi-billion-dollar cottage industry spanning the entire mass media and academia, too. There are extremely well-paid women now who have never had to hold a real jobs in their lives whose entire careers are spent authoring theories of “oppression” of women while sipping fine champagne. Enough of the mythology already. Again, the 1950’s are over.
What venomous lies.
did you care to actually qualify anything you wrote in response, or are you personally comfortable with vague dismissals, so long as they seem embraced by an irrational crowd around you?
in other words, susan, i can call you names, or say you are making “venemous lies”, but unless i actually make a concrete argument, i haven’t actually done anything real.
did you actually have a response? in your idiotic post, you claimed “limited opportunities for women”. i pointed out to you that women are now *the majority of university and college students nationwide according to the DOE* (venemous lie? it’s a fucking government statistic!) and i pointed out to you that *the majority of “professional and managerial jobs” nationwide are held by women according to the DOL (venemous lie? it’s a fucking government statistic!) did you have some sort of actual real concrete response or did to those actual real facts or did you just want to say something nasty?
really, susan. go ahead and prove that the majority of “professional and managerial positions” nationwide are not held by women, I dare you. PS, the Department of Labor disagrees with you.
oh, the pain, such “venemous lies”! the venom! ooh! the lies! ow!
to be clear to everyone, i support real feminism (the betty friedan and martha nussbaum variety; yes, i’ve read those books; no, most of you haven’t) and i support unquestioned reproductive freedome, voting rights, anti-discrimination laws for the workplace, and academia, and affirmative action programs for engineering, science, and business, in the schools. i firmly support a Western European quasi-socialist governmental approach to day care, education, and subsidizing of the hard work women do as home makers and mothers.
and i tell you, the 1950’s are over, and women in America are only as oppressed as the nearest voting booth, school, or job, all of which are quite open. women have, largely, achieved parity with men today, and this fine thing, but i am tired of the canard of “oppression” which so often these days is simply an idea that is being pushed in the mass media or academia by someone whose income depends on it.
You really are clueless aren’t you? I have daughters and just from that experience, you’re full of it.
Yea, I had to drive 450 miles on 1:30am New Years day to extricate my 18 old daughter from violence. She made out of there ok, but I will be dammed if you think
“Women in this society are doted on and feminism is a multi-billion-dollar cottage industry spanning the entire mass media and academia, too
means women are not beaten, raped, murdered and oppressed by the multi-billion-dollar that seeks to exploit and warp that which you love.
no, i am not clueless.
you clueless? Just anon. Steppenwolf … I am sorry. Shut up? My mom never told me to shut up!
i refuse to be created as a “rapist” for claiming that modern American women are not “oppressed”.
Yes, you are totally clueless. You assume — wrongly — that because the “statistics” show women hold 51% of American jobs that the mere statistic somehow translates into a grand success for feminism.
What kinds of jobs are they? Who holds most of the service jobs in America? Who is still repsonsible for childcare in America, even when she has to hold down a fulltime job, or two jobs? Are you aware that in professional fields women STILL make less than men in the same job??? Are you so out of touch with reality that you aren’t aware that every single woman you have known in your life has been sexually harassed by a teacher or a boss — or both???
Please don’t bore us with your “I’m a man and proud of it!” defenses. All that really matters is whether or not you are an aware and evolved human being. Based on your very first comment in this thread, I have to surmise that you are not.
no, i am not “totally clueless”, and attempting to (especially, inaccurately) insult me will not help us.
personally, yes, i do take that the fact that the majority of professional and managerial jobs nationwide, according to the Department of Labor, translates into a major success for feminism. managerial jobs are by definition alpha positions wherever they are. most bosses in America today are, numerically, women. as for the childcare issue, i believe i made it 10000% clear in a post above that i am 10000% in favor of a Western European approach to child care, which is, to say, a heavily subsidized government regime of transfer payments and taxpayer-provided services to insure that women engaged in childcare are properly supported. i don’t believe that “Hillary Clinton” or any other American presidential candidate besides (male) Dennis Kucinich is actually in favor of such thing, but I understand that such compelling matters of fact in our discussion will be nonsensical and irrelevant trivia to one as likely clouded and reactive as yourself.
and, no, i am not “out of touch with reality” wrt sexual harassment and, yes, there are Federal (Capital-F “Federal”) laws against such a thing.
i am sorry to have bored you, as you stated! if you change the channel, Oprah has a book to sell you, or perhaps Tom Cruise or another celebrity will make an appearance in order to delight and amuse you -
ps if you ever want to have a civil discussion with me perhaps you shouldn’t lead off with an insult. you like reading foreign policy stuff, right? that’s why you’re at this site. foreign policy has to do sometimes with this thing called “diplomacy”, a critical endeavor, and one in which the most serious practitioner will never! ever! begin a dialogue with a seeming adversary with an insult.
Who said anyone here wanted to have a discussion with you? Did I miss that post? You barged in and begin throwing b.s. around like a hyperactive chimpanzee and are now whining because people fought back. Oh, guess all us womenfolks are just supposed to quietly let a MAN pontificate about our lives. Can’t know many “real” women if you thought that.
Anon: you’re a idiot if you don’t think women have had to hoe a very hard road to make it in america.
Where have you been for the last 20 years? Watch the movie Northern Country to get a clue.
( the hoopster thinks he is wasting his time posting about your crap theory )
no i am not an idiot (since when are so many people entitled to insult me to my face just because i don’t kiss the ass of ideological feminism?) and i have been quite well and alive for the last 20 years.
since you don’t have anything real to say (note: i pointed out that the DOL indicates that half or more managerial and professional jobs nationwide are held by women, and you called me an “idiot” for telling you this) i don’t see what it is that i am supposed to respond to for you.
again, to all posters, you are not entitled to insult me just because i disagree with you. come on, i thought we were the mighty “progressives”, better than the eeevvvil republicans, who are the mental midgets or something, but all of sudden, say something that you don’t agree with, and its a food fight. can you actually address what was written, or do you just deem yourself entitled to insult someone who disagrees with you?
maybe that makes you feel better, but, it wouldn’t seem to actually DO anything, to me -
You wouldn’t get so many insults if you had the guts to post under a name – pick one, any one! It’s not hard.
And oh yeah, if you didn’t say such stoopid things.
stupid is spelled with a “u”
and if something i wrote is “stupid”, instead of just calling it names (what’s next, “I know you are, but what am I?”) perhaps you could respond to the statement in question with some sort of actual concrete response beyond “nyeah!” or something. go on, i dare you, say something intelligent.
Irony-impaired much?
Anyone who goes around thumping his chest and loudly bellowing, “I’M A MAN!!!!” obviously has some, uh, issues about said masculinity.
Okay, I’ve read halfway down the thread and I don’t quite understand why you are so angry. I mean, you started off up top angry. And if your are swearing and bullying, it’s not so surprising that others would reply in kind.
That said, women have made great strides since we all went marching those years ago. It is also true that women still make at least 21% less than men in similar positions.
That is not equality and it is certainly not being doted upon.
read what i said again:
Anon: you’re a idiot IF YOU DON’T think women have had to hoe a very hard road to make it in america.
Caps are added..
So in other words i’m calling you an idiot IF you don’t believe that womens rights were a long road and hard fought battle..
If you believe that..then well i didn’t call you an idiot..
My daughters have put up with alot of sexist crap during thier young lives.. Nicole is very pretty and wants to be a farmer..she hears comments all the time that are out of line.. If she was a handsome strapping young man it would be perfectly fine to be a farmer..but not a pretty girl..
What the HELL is that? maybe she should just be ironing shirts for a farmer to make people happy.
Good on your Nicole!!
And went you went to the College of “a little too much fun”?
Next time I pass that way I honk in your honor!
teak:
yes..Sonoma State University and then UC Davis..Just alittle too much fun!!
Both great places.
Who left the pet door up this time?
You’re either a man or insane. Women do have more opportunities than they used to, but most aren’t “doted on”, at least, not for long. Or do you somehow imagine that some asshole shouting “iron my shirts” at a U.S. Senator and Presidential candidate is “doting”? Yes, women often get encouragement from their male colleagues, but they also run into people like this, too. And if that sort of person is a woman’s boss, she isn’t going anywhere no matter how good she is at her job.
Ask yourself this – is there any other reasonable explanation for someone shouting what those men did? What in the world do you think they were protesting? Laundromat prices? Do women shout that sort of things at male candidates for office? If they do, I must have missed that.
you are not entitled to insult men just because you are a woman or a “feminist”. i encourage you to ponder this reality. being a man is not a status crime. you should reflect on that.
Hey jackass – Cujo is a man.
Try again.
you are not entitled to call me “jackass” simply because you (apparently?) disagree with (something?) i wrote.
there seems to be a really dumb crowd on this web site. lots of name calling and food fights.
Don’t see anyone trying to stop you from leaving if you don’t like it here.
This from the poo-flinger.
ps: when did i claim so-and-so WAS a man? i wrote “a woman or a feminist” on purpose. men are feminists, too. hence, my response was gender-agnostic. you should take the trouble to think at least a few seconds about what you read, please, before typing into the little box and clicking “Add comment”.
if i spoke to a feminist and said “either you are a woman or insane” i would be PROMPTLY denounced as a “misogynst” or worse. yet you feel perfectly comfortable making the equivalent sexist (and anti-man!) comment about me. you should pause to consider your double-standards. you didn’t even make a point. you just made a sexist (anti-man) comment that if made against a woman would prompt cries of “misogyny” as if any man you encounter who does not genuflect in front of the graven idol of rigid, ideological feminism is simply deserving of (sexist, anti-man) condemnation and insults.
again, if you think that women are subject to sexism, then perhaps you shouldn’t be sexist and anti-man in addressing someone else.
jack nicholson in “As Good As It Gets”:
woman: “how do you write women so well?”
JN, being a jerk: “I think of a man, and I leave out reason and accountability!”
He was written deliberately as a sexist, misogynst creep.
Cujo359: “Who left the pet door up this time?
You’re either a man or insane.”
Congratulations, Cujo, you managed to be a worse deliberate sexist creep than Jack Nicholson in “As Good As It Gets”. And you didn’t even have a writer trying to make that way on purpose!
Actually, you could be both. I was simply saying what I thought were the minimum requirements. I don’t really consider myself a feminist so much as someone who thinks everyone should be able to rise to the level their abilities take them.
You seem to be very good at insulting people and then whining when they’re uncivil in return. Since this seems to have become a national sport recently, I’m sure you’ll go far.
Just who are these women you speak of. Evidence, please.
I also remember what it was like back then. I was one of the first female laborers building the Alaskan Pipeline in the mid 70’s. I was tall and strong and could swing a pick or work a shovel just as good as the men. I had to work harder to “prove” myself, taking all kinds of incoming remarks along the way that make Imus look like a kindergarten teacher. I got tough and smart and determined. My wages put me though college and grad school. I hoped I would never have to endure that kind of treatment again. Hah! Sad to say the sexism was in academia and the “professional” community especially if women were smarter than their male co-workers.
Things have somewhat changed today, but with what I am seeing with this campaign season, not as much as I thought. I am very discourage that all these young women don’t realize the shoulders they are standing on. They take their perceived equality so for granted that they don’t feel offended by the term “bitch” which high schoolers use now as a form of acknowledgement. They don’t seem to appreciate what the Hillary Clinton campaign is all about. I wasn’t originally a Clinton supporter but have come around especially after all the sexism shown towards her. And from the “liberal” blogs no less. I understand Hillary’s determination and am so impressed she is still standing and fighting.
Stand tall Hillary!
Nice story waiting..
it’s nice to see a stong woman labor in the system to better herself..
Here is a hat tip to you..
Thanks. I am usually a lurker but have been so p*ssed lately I have been starting to speak out.
Me too. I usually lurk because some other poster has said what I was thinking, only said it better. But not on this subject. Not this time. This one is something I know about and have fought all my life. I would be letting myself, my daughter and my 7 granddaughters down if I didn’t jump into this ruckus. Go Susan!
Bless you. Great, inspiring story. Keep posting.
I am not supporting Senator Clinton in the primaries either, but I am also getting close to voting for her because of this crap. Anon, you are a bigoted, sexist idiot. When I graduated from law school 25 years ago and went on job interviews, I was asked if I would not be” too distracting” to a client because I was an attractive young woman. I was also asked why they should assume I would NOT engage in numerous affairs with clients. Morons.
Even today, I and other women who have been outspoken against this government and its policies have taken bigger professional hits than any of the men out there and the men we have known for years as colleagues ran for the hills while we stood and took our hits. Then they have the NERVE to marvel that we remain standing and have our self respect intact.
Don’t you DARE tell me or any woman who has fought for a place in this society that we have it easy now or had it easy in the past. You are full of more crap than the creature at 1600 Pennsylvania if you think that.
Judge Hillary Clinton on her record, absolutely, but the way she is being judged is totally unacceptable. Oh, and I was a John Edwards supporter until he made his very ignorant statement today concerning Senator Clinton’s emotional response to a question.
There, I’m done for now, but this is really striking a nerve with me and I am mad as he$$ right now. Oh, and I am shouting.
Mufsmom, I completely had forgotten that in my first teaching job out of college, I was hired as music teacher and another new grad (male) was hired as band teacher. He was paid $1000 more than I was to start because he had a wife and a baby on the way. And I wasn’t outraged at the time. Geesh!
mufs — I totally agree. And I am shouting too.
Will we ever come to grips with the rampant sexism still alive in this country — hard to say if we allow rich white men to continue setting policy. i have 2 daughters (both graduated magna cum laude) in an industry where they see being a man has its advantages.
Will we ever come to grips with the rampant RACISM still alive in this country? – again hard to say !
i am white and i moved to the south a few years ago –
even i see the racism and the lack of any kind of inspiration among the black youth i work with. the state i live in is full of fundies and libertarians — so i don’t see blacks , OR women advancing.
some parts of our country are slipping back to the 50’s where women are subservient and blacks are unimportant…. sad …
any comment on this article or is my tin foil hat on too tightly?
thsnks in advance!
peg, your tin foil hat is just fine.
in case you missed it, larry had a recent short post on this.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/06/check-out-sibel-edmonds/
the art. that peg links to is the justin r. of antiwar.com piece on sibel edmonds which just got a major story in the paper. but a british paper. not an american one. natch.
peg, i wish to f*ck americans knew what their gvt. has done. one of my favorite quotes, and the implications are staggering, is ghwb oh his way out the door in ‘92 saying to longtime d.c. and a.p. reporter, who was from texas, sarah maclendon (? sarah somebody), “if the american people knew what we did, they’d chase us down in the streets and hang us from lamposts.” pres. george herbert walker bush. actual quote.
wethornet, proud member of the grassy knoll inconvenient DATA tin foil hat club.
Why do you think GWB changed the laws so that presidential papers are so hard to get to?
oh, absolutely. good point.
Why do you think GWB changed the laws so that presidential papers are so hard to get to?
As soon as the National Archives discovered they had 16,000 coloring books on thier hands and a bunch of second hand clip notes.
( in all fairness..some of the coloring was pretty good..)
Considering that I have worked in male-dominated fields for most of my life, I consider myself somewhat lucky, in that most of the men I worked with, both in music and in contracting, have treated me with respect. But I had to continually prove myself in ways than men do not.
At the first music school I attended, 25 years ago, I was one of twelve women in a sea of 300 men. You wouldn’t believe some of the stupid, offensive comments that were hurled my way. Well, maybe you would. As soon as those creeps heard me play they had to swallow their shit-eating grins and admit that in many cases, I was a better player than them. Yes, it’s embarrassing to be shown up by a skinny little 24-year old “bitch”.
The second music school I went to I was harassed by one of my teachers, someone who was notorious for being a harasser, and yet every time he was reported by a female student the administration saw no need to do more than “reprimand” him, in other words — slap him on the wrist. And this was in the 90’s, so we are not quite at the level of equality, despite what certain anonymous jackasses would have us believe.
also, you say that you were in this music school 25 years ago. then later, you say that this was the “90’s”. The 1990’s were not 25 years ago. The 1990’s were 17 to 9 years ago, and the 1980’s were 25 or so years ago. Do you remember when it is you went to schoo? 25 years ago, or the 1990’s? Take your pick.
anon, to be polite, this thread has you so riled up it’s affecting your reading comprehension process. you aren’t reading what shoephone wrote.
music school #1. 25 years ago.
music school #2. in the 90’s.
Hay jackass – I said “the first music school I attended” was 25 years ago. The second music school I attended was in the early 90’s. First, then second. Get it?
You don’t pay much attention to what you read, do you?
i do not deserve to be called “jackass” for disagreeing with you.
i am sorry for your miserable life experience. i only wish it could have been better for you, really.
i could have actually tried to talk to you. but, since you introduce yourself by calling me “jackass” on the grounds that apparently i don’t agree with you about something (what precisely WAS IT that i wrote that factually you disagree with?) i see no point in continuing
sincerely, i hope that calling me “jackass” helped make up for the apparently miserable life experience you’ve had, to read what you wrote
such oppression. she graduated from a music school! oh, the horror! the pain! such … “oppression”!
anon,
I think you have made some very good points, here. I see no reason why you are being called names or even why no one is willing to discuss your views. I am female, and a feminist who wants no special treatment. I don’t see being female as a handicap, and don’t like whiners, either. This country is based on free expression. I don’t find that threatening at all, even when I disagree with the views expressed.
About Hillary, I think she is a warmonger. She had ample oportunity to do something, express an opinion in opposition, but she didn’t for a long, long time. She just went along with it. To be honest, so did everyone else in Congress.
The incident today, (iron my shirt) stunk of staging.
Gawd you are such a whiner. “I do not deserve this!” “You called me names!” Wheah wheah wheah.
Why don’t you man up?
You didn’t just disagree with her, you misread her, and misinterpreted her, and mischaracterized her.
Brooks Bros. rioters?
Hope & any other woman who has been raped. I. am. so. sorry.
((
And any who have been sexually harassed. While not as egregious it is still awful.
Ditto for any guy who has been sexually abused. (While the numbers are not as high as for women, the percentage would surprise you.)
~~
Susan, add me to the email list about the Esalen incident if you would pls. And sorry about your elevator incident.
Being in Washington I would imagine you heard about the Patty Murray/Strom Thurmond elevator incident?
I would love to find the MSM mute button.
TWK, on an individual level it’s called the on/off switch.
I watch very little TV, and I’m about to cancel my subscriptions to Time and Newsweek. Which will hurt like a son of a b*tch cuz I’m a news junkie.
On the societal level it’s things like media watchdog groups, it’s what I call “adopting a reporter,” it’s supporting with your cash bloggers, it’s giving out books like project censored’s the 25 most censored stories in the given year (abolutely fascinating), etc. Otherwise, we have to live with the toxic results. As the saying goes, “we’re all downwind/downstream.”
Our M$M serves their corporate masters and the only difference between ourselves and the people in the Old Soviet Union is that they knew Pravda was bullsh*t. And too many of our citizens don’t. It’s kind of like 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 year olds who still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Thanks for advice wethornet. I am news junkie but only because the real “news” is always that story that only ran once and you need to be able to look for the “needle in the haystack”. I know it when I see it.
like project censored’s the 25 most censored stories Not sh*t on that.
Hippity Hop and a HO HO Ho to you too!
Obama is getting a free ride for his comment on Hillary ‘tearing up’, but Obama’s comment is really as bad as Edwards’.
Obama said he didn’t see it but a campaign could be a ‘grind.’ Thus framing it as some sort of personal lack of stamina — same as Edwards did.
Hillary was talking about the danger the country is in from another GOP admin, and the chance the country may be missing. A man who tears up over the issues is seen as sincere, caring. Edwards in the NH debate was being very emotional saying an issue was ‘personal’ to him; that’s passion, that’s good.
But when a woman shows sadness, that can’t be about the state of the country or the danger it’s in. That has to be just ‘campaign grind’ getting to the frail little thing.
And Obama’s re-framing was called ‘classy’ and ‘gracious’ and ’sympathetic.’ And no one has noticed the sexism of THAT!
fyi. 2 us navy f-18’s collided in the northern part of the persian gulf and were destroyed. there were 3 us aviators who were rescued from the waters and returned to their carrier, the uss harry s. truman.
this was NOT, repeat, NOT, related to the iranian-us naval incident earlier.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NAVY_IRAN?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
I watched that “iron my shirts” incident and my observation was that Clinton was not at all shaken, took it in stride, and seemed to have a prepared speech to address it. My question is who were these people and how did they get in there? Why have we not seen a situation like that before with Hillary and suddenly on the last day when she is behind we do? And then there was the scene on the same day of the supposed tears welling up and her prepared follow up with all the media outlets. I am sorry but Hillary Clinton is a very tough, smart cunning woman and I would not put anything past her to get what she wants. Maybe I am too cynical but we have seen this play before.
How hard is it for a very smart woman to have a comeback for a couple of sexist louts? Good grief, waitresses have been doing it for years. A prepared speech? Cynical maybe, but seems more conspiratorial. Sometimes things are just what they appear to be.
Quite the contrary. I’ve been following Hillary for many years and you are not giving her enough credit. Remember she is not the Tammy Wynette type who bakes cookies. A little too timely and coincidental for me. And, by the way, I did not see any tears.
So you’re saying it’s a plant, without a shred of evidence? Just an intuition?
Based on intuition and her past history of doing that.
In a campaign as controlled as Clinton’s how does a protestor with a sign end up in the front row and not somewhere in the back of the room?
Look at her facial expressions when it happened. Does she look at all surprised? And how quickly did her lines flow out?
So you see through Hillary? Maybe a better question would be why would 2 guys need to disrupt an event to demean a woman candidate? Maybe they have a problem with their own manhood. Whatever, they looked like jerks.
One of the things that continues to confound me is that so many Hillary Haters are willing to disregard sexism so long as it is directed at her. I am an Edwards supporter but as a woman I have been appalled at the rampant sexism in many of the attacks on Hillary Clinton. Followed closely by the rampant dishonesty. I expected that from Republicans and could not believe that Democrats would behave in the same fashion. Do the Hillary Haters think sexism is wrong only when it is directed at someone they like?
Sexism is alive and well and lives in the United States. Racism is alive and well and lives in the United States. Cable television may have declared racism dead because some 84,000 people voted for an African American in Iowa. What nonsense. Racism and Sexism will be dead in this country when race and gender are not discussed when commenting about a person running for office.
Protestors to Clinton “Iron my shirt.”
Taters to anon “Kiss my ass.”
Wasn’t ours the nation that pioneered the modern woman’s movement? Based on what has happened to HRC, I wager that we never see another plausible woman candidate for President.
don’t agree at all. i acknowledge the sexism against her. but, hillary’s main problem isn’t that she has ovaries. it is her miserable track record.
Her track record is mixed.
I bet we see another woman candidate. But she will be thoroughly vetted by the right and Wall Street to make sure she says the right things. Racism and Sexism are alive and well in the USA but there are always sellouts who will use their race or sex to cosy up to that Rich White Guy world.
oh this is just f*cking great.
a u.n. vehicle in lebanon was just bombed. 2 u.n. soldiers slightly wounded.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22553339/
we have the iranian-u.s. navy dustup. these type of incidents happened all the time during the cold war. on both sides. a u.s. carrier task force off the coast of japan and china just (w/i the last month or two) had a chinese sub pop up – totally undetected — 200 yards from the carrier; which ain’t supposed to be able to happen. at all. we have 2 f-18’s going down. afghanistan, the forgotten war, well, the year 2007 was the deadliest year for americans of the war. and our allies are severely underwhelmed with our leadership. bhutto was just assassinated. and u.s. special forces are going into pakistan in a big way.
what has NOT been mentioned is that w. is about to spend 7 days in the middle east. 3 in israel. i can’t find the link but he is staying at, iirc, the king david hotel in jerusalem. which is perplexing as hell, if not downright bizarre, to people who know history; it was involved in a major terrorist operation back in 1946ish. jews who wanted the british out iirc.
then w. is touring our arab allies in the gulf.
i don’t see iran wanting war, or escalation, with the u.s. and if iran wants to throw a monkey wrench at w. they can release the october surprise data they have on his daddy. who was in the suburbs of paris in oct. of 1980.
i see w’s policy in the m.e. crumbling. big time.
the question to ask in these situations — admittedly very complex and multifaceted — is, cui bono? who benefits?
(my take. either the u.s. real or shadow govt. or the israelis. the usual suspects.)
wet a very interesting posting … who benefits … i would think the bush family and the caryle group first and foremost. would it be cynical of me to think dubya will be doing his best to grow the family coffers in his last year? i think not!
your comment: “and if iran wants to throw a monkey wrench at w. they can release the october surprise data they have on his daddy. who was in the suburbs of paris in oct. of 1980.” really rocked me! i covered (for an alternative newspaper) a federal trial in portland oregon that dealt with the presence of bush 41 being in paris during that time frame. the government tried to lock up a pilot from evergreen airlines (a CIA front) who released a picture and other information that confirmed where he was. the trial lasted about 45 minutes before the judge threw out the case due to the special prosecutor using obviously manufactured evidence. i cant remember many of the names anymore but i do recally very vividly the outrage of the judge. anyway, thanks for the brain zap!
So I assume you support Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama?
Just checking.
I am perfectly willing to vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is.
I suppose it’s possible there is some sexism out there against Hillary (certainly the “Iron my Shirts” comment smacks of it), but Barack’s Iowa and likely NH success have more to do with Barack presenting a more positive message of change then Hillary has.
Without a doubt, Hillary would be a fine President. I believe the same is true of Barack.
If Hillary was a more compelling candidate, more charismatic, more “genuine” rather then triangulating, she would be doing better then Barack.
Hillary reminds me of an ernest school girl, doing all her homework on time, bringing the teacher an apple, doing the extra credit project, getting all “A’s”.
Barack is the popular school jock, an exciting personality, engaging, an easily elected class president.
Hillary may in fact be better qualified to be President, but she is not rousing her audiences, causing them to believe.
We may regret electing Barack over Hillary, but unless Barack stumbbles badly, he is headed toward the Democratic nomination. He is the face of a movement (as well as the voice) and Hillary is trying to get elected as a traditional establishment politician.
Steve,
Who would you rather have be your surgeon, the jock who gets the crowd roused. —Or the smart girl who studied, practiced and did her homework. Rebel rousing won’t work in the operating room, And thanks to George Bush, America has a very small margin of error left for another inexperienced jock to test the waters. I wish reality would split so all of you Obama supporters could live in an existence with your president, and Hillary could be mine. I enjoyed the Clinton years of diminishing debt, pro-environmental policies, no war, a sound economy. It was easy to buy my first house in those years. And now I see everyone pissing those opportunities away for a good speech. George Bush gave one too, which is why all the crowd-following Independents followed him off a cliff. Like I said, I wish our realities would split so I wouldn’t have to keep suffering from the consequences of idiotic voters that don’t value experience and PROOF of a job well done.
In 2000 G. W. Bush gave almost the same speech as Barack Obama is using as his stump speech. All about hope and bringing people together. The only question which should be asked in this election is ARE YOU BETTER OFF NOW THEN YOU WERE IN THE CLINTON YEARS.
Those were great years for most of us. And the Republicans fear this so much that they are pulling out their checkbooks and all the stops to finish off the only candidate who dares to speak of better times. May God Help America
Susan so well down so many important points. I too have a deep respect for all that Hillary has done and continues to do. I am indebted to the woman and some men who have paved the way for womens right to vote and have pushed hard for “justice for all”.
I really wish Hillay would have not voted yes on that Kyl Lieberman amendment that Senator Webb described as ‘tantamount to declaring war on Iran”. Then when I heard Seymour Hersh on Amy Goodman’s Democracy now say that Hillary is beholden to the I lobby (which I have always believed) but to have that confirmed by Seymour sunk Hillary’s ship in my book.
I am going to vote for the most ANTI “UNNECESSARY” WAR candidate. That Candidate is not Hillary not Obama (he sat on the fence on that amendment…that candidate is Edwards (hell I hate supporting another white guy) but I am due to the war and will support Edwards who truly seems to have learned the lesson of Iraq. Don’t fucking do it again. And Edwards stating “no lobbyist in my administration, including those individuals who have lobbied for a foreign nation”
The oppression of women that you have described and what many women have experienced is alive today. The “pinching women on the ass, to date rape, to discrimination on the job, to the objectification of women through advertising (remember when Gap came out with thongs for three years olds a few years ago?) I raised three daughters they are now (30,28,2o) and I was simply amazed by the issues that they were still dealing with that my peer group (55) had to deal with.
One story I can share in regard to the unreported and often accepted abuse of women that still often occurs is the leers, comments and touch that takes place directed towards younger women from older men.
I spent one year building the momentum to get rid of an abusive athletic director in our town. After a college student reported persistent and documented verbal sexual abuse that was directed towards her for five months (while she was his assistant) to our school superintendent, I assumed the guy would be gone. He was not. This struck me as very odd and I started digging. As I asked the many young women athletes that I knew (my youngest had been playing soccer for 10 years at that time) I heard many stories from these young women about this athletic directors persistent pattern of making serious and inappropriate comments to young women that he had power over. Such as “nice cleavage, nice legs, nice ass” etc. I then called the young college student and read her report and talked with her college advisor(a man with daughters) who was in full support of this young woman taking this issue forward. Based on this I went to the superintendent and asked why this man had not been dismissed this school superindent’st response was “kathleen sometimes the public just needs to trust the judgement of those in control,like we need to trust the President and Vice President of our country” Oy Vey! He chose the wrong response with the wrong person. I knew from his response there was more much much more. I soon found out that this superintendent was very good friends with this athletic directors father who was the superintendent of the school directly next to ours.
I continued interviewing students both female and male. Many young men had had this AD (athletic director) walk up to them in the hallways of the high school while walking behind the young women students saying things like ” bet you’d like a piece of that ass, have you had her yet” etc. I ended up interviewing over 50 high school students and it was astounding how many of them had had outrageous things said to them by this AD. I kept asking both the males and females “what kept you from reporting this” While I did find several students who had actually reported his inappropriate behavior the overwhelming response was “we knew nothing would be done”
At this point I went back to the superintendent let him know what I was hearing (had many letters from the students)and let him know that I had read the districts policies on how a situation like this should be dealt with which was to bring in an INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATOR that I woul”drop this ball”, if he would follow the policy. He refused, knowing that he would be implicated for protecting this guy.
I continued putting together a heavy hitting group of parents VP’s of the university, prominent attorneys in town, teachers etc (most with daughters). I then called the papers both local and state, they ran with the story. As time went on we had parents and students coming out of every nook and cranny with stories of abuse about this guy. Several parents were extremely pissed because they had daughters who had submitted written complaints about this guy years before when this AD had been teaching high school classes. I knew it was only a matter of time before the stories of abuse became more serious ( after talking with my older daughters I had found out that this guy had a reputation that went back 10 years). I finally talked with a very poor young woman who had been persistently hounded by this guy and the situation had gotten very serious (you get the picture). She was unwilling to come forward due guilt embarrassment the fact that she now has several children (the abuse had taken place years before while she was a high school student)
Anyway after a solid year this group of committed parents was successful at having this guy removed. But guess what because it had not gone through a court process he was able to get a job with another school system within the state. Justice! Absolutely not. I know that if there had been an independent investigation not only would the AD have to go, our school districts superintendent would also be gone because there is no doubt that he had been protecting this guy ( the written complaints of the college student and the other students who had complained were not in his file). The superintendent
What amazed me about this whole episode is how convinced these students were that nothing would be done about this AD’s outrageous and inappropriate behavior because everyone that we talked with teachers (were well aware of his behavior, students and many parents) had been tolerating this.
The collective acceptance of “men will be men” or “boys will be boys” horseshit is still thriving.
Iron my shirt guys, radio pranksters:
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/07/video-the-obligatory-iron-my-shirt-post
Hmmmmm. Something else throw at the wall in an attempt to get it to stick.
I am quite sick of hearing about Kyl-Lieberman.
It didn’t lead to war, did it?
it’s not over yet
The 2002 war resolution vote was in Oct the Bush administrations invasion was in March. The Kyl Lieberman amendment which Senator Webb described as “tantamount to declaring war on Iran” took place in Oct of 2007. Still time for the neo-cons to have their way with Iran.
Anyone else notice how there was not one question during any of the debates both Republican and Democratic about the Isreali Palestinian conflict. Nah nothing to look at or discuss here just ignore the issue and it will stay the same.
Here are the candidates stance on the I/P conflict
http://www.cfr.org/publication/14756/#141
John Edwards
Edwards’ statements on the conflict have been generally supportive of Israel. In a speech in Herzliya, Israel, Edwards said that former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon showed “courage” in evacuating (BosGlobe) the settlements in the Gaza Strip in 2005. Edwards also said in that speech that Israel should “upgrade” its role in NATO, and possibly even become a member, and he sharply criticized the late Yasir Arafat in a vice presidential debate in the 2004 election. Yet pro-Israel lobbyists have criticized Edwards for choosing former Rep. David Bonior (New York Sun) as an adviser to his campaign. Writer Matthew Yglesias describes Bonior as “quite possibly the Israel lobby’s least-liked legislator in recent history.”
Hillary Clinton
Though her advocacy (NYT) for Palestinian statehood in the 1990s drew criticism from American Jewish groups at the time, Sen. Clinton (D-NY) generally has aligned herself with pro-Israeli interests throughout her political career. In a February 2007 speech before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), Clinton said Hamas, which took control of the Palestinian Authority in January 2006 and formed a coalition government with Fatah in February 2007, should not be recognized “until it renounces violence and terror and recognizes Israel’s right to exist.” Clinton also supports Israel’s “security wall,” which divides Israel from the West Bank with the declared purpose of preventing terrorist attacks.
Clinton cosponsored the Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act of 2006. She also sponsored a Senate resolution in 2007 “calling for the immediate and unconditional release of soldiers of Israel held captive by Hamas and Hezbollah.” That resolution was approved. Since taking office in 2000, she has regularly supported military and financial aid packages to Israel.
Barack Obama “agent of change” Yeah right
Barack Obama
Sen. Obama (S-IL) has taken a strongly pro-Israel tone in addressing the conflict. In a speech before AIPAC in March 2007, Obama said the United States must “strengthen the hands of Palestinian moderates” and isolate Hamas. Haaretz U.S. correspondent Shmuel Rosner said that before AIPAC, Obama “sounded as strong as Clinton, as supportive as Bush, as friendly as Giuliani.”
Obama cosponsored the Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act of 2006 and, like most of his fellow candidates, has called on the Palestinian leadership to “recognize Israel, to renounce violence, and to get serious about negotiating peace and security for the region.”
If elected, Obama says he would “insist on fully funding military assistance to Israel” (JPost) and continue to cooperate with Israel on the development of the Arrow missile defense system.
nor has there been ANY questions about katrina to the rethugs. and only one or two all told to them dems. pathetic.
wet a very interesting posting …
your comment: “and if iran wants to throw a monkey wrench at w. they can release the october surprise data they have on his daddy. who was in the suburbs of paris in oct. of 1980.” really rocked me! i covered (for an alternative newspaper) a federal trial in portland oregon that dealt with the presence of bush 41 being in paris during that time frame. the government tried to lock up a pilot from evergreen airlines (a CIA front) who released a picture and other information that confirmed where he was. the trial lasted about 45 minutes before the judge threw out the case due to the special prosecutor using obviously manufactured evidence. i cant remember many of the names anymore but i do recally very vividly the outrage of the judge. anyway, thanks for the brain zap!
bama barron, (2 r’s or 3 in barrron?; inquiring minds and all that) glad to give you a trip down memory lane. at the dinner table tonight my better half will ask why i have a sh*t eating grin on my face and i’ll reply that i “really rocked” bama barron’s world and furthermore i gave him, (i’m assuming here), a “brain zap.” the children will roll their eyes in unison and make less than respectful comments about their old man. the missus, shedevil that she is, will take their side.
re: the pilot’s name: does the name gunther russbacher ring a bell? he was the guy who flew ghwb back from paris to the states. iirc, in a sr-71 no less.
Defrauding America: Encyclopedia of Secret Operations by the CIA, DEA, and Other Covert Agencies.
the link is to the above, a most fascinating book. author: rodney stich. stich. navy pilot ww2. susan he was at whidbey island briefly, your neck of the woods. then airline pilot. then with f.a.a. whistleblower. gvt. seizes all his assets on bogus stuff and gets railroaded into prison on some travesty of justice. there he met many other govt. whistleblowers and he tells their stories. fascinating, fascinating book.
bama you will love it.
bama, can you tell me any more about the trial? dates? who was the judge? lawyers? courtroom? or do you have old clippings from your alternative paper? i ask because i am writing a book about post ww2 america and this is obviously a key event.
http://www.amazon.com/Defrauding-America-Encyclopedia-Operations-Agencies/dp/0932438091/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199811217&sr=1-2
(i use the 2001 edition vs. the dec. 2005 ed. because the latter has no book reviewers comments. whereas there are 9 reviewers of the earlier one.)
bama_barrron: Got me curious as well.
bama, can you tell me any more about the trial? dates? who was the judge? lawyers? courtroom? or do you have old clippings from your alternative paper?
‘iron my shirt.’
t-shirts, hats, stickers, mugs, buttons, magnets, and more are now available at:
http://ironmyshirt.dirtyword.net
it’s the newest anti-hillary catch phrase!
anon; seek anger management
You start by accusing Susan and others who say that gender related humiliation is alive and well, just need to “grow up”. Then you’re outraged when they strike back. What did you really expect? You have a repeating habit in several posts here of pushing hot buttons, and then going-off on anyone who replies to your attitude.
You want the privelege of insulting others, along with the double standard of never being insulted. You want your opinions to be taken seriously, even when they are a vehicle for a message of characterization. In short, you dish it out more than you can take it. Then again, maybe a venomous slam-fest is what you’re really after.
And speaking of ‘waking up’, wake up and realize you are talking to real people here, not just an inanimate computer. Perhaps it is yourself who needs to wake up and grow up.
why be normal…
Best response yet..you rock..If only the hoopster could be so insightful as you..
HH, you know, I always thought I could learn something from you about giving comments a more personal touch.
Funny I don’t think you’ll see Obama protesters with signs that say, “Pick my cotton.”
I had a similar thought. It may still be coming…scary
I was not thinking of a sign,but it sadly will be a rethug that plays race bait card. It may just in not so subtle “code” but is coming if Obama is the nominee sure as a Zebra’s got strips.
Don’t give their handlers any ideas.
gang, sorry for the caps.
SUSAN, I ONLY SKIMMED THIS BUT IF YOU WANT TO TEAR OBAMA A NEW ONE, READ THIS ARTICLE FROM BLACK AGENDA. THEN FORWARD TO TAYLOR MARSH AND YOUR OTHER HRC BUDDIES.
http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=483&Itemid=1
all, it is a good read.
wethornet, who is off to bed.
[...] Protestors to Clinton: “Iron My Shirt” : NO QUARTER The United States ranks 67th in the world in the number of women it has elected to office — between Zimbabwe and Turkistan, according to BBC World News. SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: “We’re Comin’ For You, Zimbabwe!”, url: “http://dragonflyeye.net/blog/2008/01/08/were-comin-for-you-zimbabwe/” }); Tagged With: 2008, Hillary Clinton, President, Women’s Rights, Zimbabwe [...]
I spent my teen years in Claremont CA, home to the Six Claremont Colleges, one of which is Scripps College – for women, ranked by US News & World Report as 28 in best liberal arts colleges. My 8th grade history teacher in the same town was a recent Scripps graduate.
She mentioned this in the first class session. Someone asked why there was such a thing as a women’s college. She patiently explained that it gave women an opportunity to excel on their own terms, with gender comparison left out of the equation. She also said that to appreciate it, you had to be there.
‘Being there’ turned out to be the main theme of her teaching style, and in retrospect, she was one of the most influential of all my teachers. She had a real drive for us to experience history instead of just reading about the boring facts. She did all manor of mock court trials, simulated elections, role playing of historical characters, and film clips of an old CBS history education TV series by Walter Cronkite called “You are there”, simulating TV news coverage of historical events, and which he signed off by saying “And that’s the way it Was“.
The overall lesson of the whole class was to see events as viewed from the perspective of the people living them. She attributed part of her interst in doing this to her college experience where she learned the perspective she hadn’t had before of being in an environment where she was just who she was, instead of who she was in comparison to the opposite sex. So perspective became important to her.
Being male, I never attended Scripps. But I think the lessons she learned about perspective were passed on to me nonetheless.
$25 for a TEE SHIRT?
No thanks, I will buy my $3 tee shirts made in China with American cotton, and spend the other $22 with one of the new job holders in the USA — my local bartender. ( Can’t outsource pouring drinks or emptying bedpans )
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts01082008.html
That american cotton again….
Can’t outsource pouring drinks or emptying bedpans
That is being “in-sourced”. Japan would send milling ships to the CA North Coast get the logs, mill them at sea and return the finished product to our shores. Same with the bed-pan politics.
I will save the 25 dollars and Iron what I have…
I think the only way to properly wear that shirt would be with rumpled, with beer and pizza sauce stains, a beer belly, and a three-day growth of beard.
Having to go to that much trouble, not to mention the inflated price, is enough to deter me.
Isn’t this something like the reason that ‘A’ shirts are nick-named ‘wife beater’ shirts?
Just 2 days ago I went to a major department store to redo my kitchen with stainless steel appliances. I went with my husband who just sat there while I picked out what I wanted and asked the pertinent questions about convection ovens which I knew nothing about. The salesperson who was trying to sell me an extended warranty on the refrigerator told me to shut up when I said I would go with the warranty which comes with the Refrigerator. Then he said to my husband–You are such an nice guy how can you stand her. I paid for the appliances with my own credit card but I called this jerk the next day to tell him what I thought of this sexism. Even though Women have their own money we get treated as our husband’s chattel. Now they tell this brilliant woman to iron their shirts? Perhaps if we had had a woman President for the last 7 years we would not be involved in 2 protracted wars and our economy wouldn’t be in the toilet.
So he receives his commission payment for his sale to you.
Your husband sits there and allows another man to tell you to shut up.
And you still give him your business?
He has YOUR money now and your irate call was forgotten the minute before you hung up the phone.
I suspect it must have been the only appliance store within an hours drive.
Your absolutely right. I don’t think it occured to me until the next day how very angry I was. As for my husband who never says anything, I will leave him home. I get treated better when I go alone.
I’ve done 30 years in one form of retail or another. We all know who makes the decisions.
In big retail ops it is basic training that women decide purchases and men ( usually ) who write the check/pull out the credit card after the wife approves. In housing it is the same with the added consideration of school quality if the family brings kidlets along. In autos, a man shopping alone is always asked if there is a “significant other.” If there is, then all the looking at the Dodge Viper or Lambourghini is just wasted time. Sears did not hire idiots in the past, that may have changed with their takeover by K-Mart and subsequent devolution.
jeez s.hall
I would really feel sorry for anyone telling Theresa to shut up..Whoa..I’m twice the size of my better half and have never told her to shut up.
( i’m smart that way)
One time a salesperson kindof insulted her during a minor dispute..It wasn’t pretty.. I was laughing my ass off..You just crossed a country girl that takes shit from nobody..This is going to be a thing to watch.. I still tease her to this day about it and we laugh..
The salesperson who was trying to sell me an extended warranty on the refrigerator told me to shut up
You didn’t ask for the manager to tell them why you wouldn’t be spending money at the store?
Then he said to my husband–You are such an nice guy how can you stand her.
Assuming the clerk wasn’t fired or worse, your husband is a nice guy.
I paid for the appliances with my own credit card
Why not shop elsewhere?
I’ve had experiences with contractors who say they want to talk to the man of the house.
I have to tell them if I make the decisions here…then I tell them that they lost business.
I get so used to this being that my husband never gets involved in purchases and leaves everything to me. To a salesman when you’re with a man the man has the power. They really don’t get it that woman are the ones who spend the money on major purchases. No man is going to change appliances because a new color is in fashion.
That would be a fire-able offense for any customer service person. Come on! Why didn’t your husband stand up for you? Why did you buy the appliance?
Somthing’s off here.
Me? I would have more than called him it on telling my wife to shut up.
Somthing’s off here. You can order most of the this online and do instore pickup.
Somthing’s off here. Mudkitty;Cee;CK, WAY off.
My husband never says anything and never confronts anyone about anything. He leaves everything to me. No matter how large the purchase. The store is Sears where I have gone for all my major appliances for the last 27 years because I trust them.
Personally s. hall, I wish all the best for you and yours, but dam girl…(shaking my head) the next time that CRAP happens make a scene!!! If I was a person ovverhearing that I would have gotten in the guy’s face. I hate hearing that crap…sorry If I said anything to offend you…
I never thought about buying on line especially with so many new types of ovens, like convection and advantium. I thought the salesperson would be able to explain these different cooking methods. Was I wrong not to call him on his sexism right then and there–Totally. Was my husband wrong for not standing up for me — you betcha. He thinks I’m so strong that I can handle anything but this sexism thing has bugged me for years. I need to get a tee-shirt which says I HAVE THE POWER OF THE PURSE–DEAL WITH IT.
You have the power of another P too.
We do a LOT of research online before going to the “BigBox”. You go in knowing what you want. If you want extended service most stores allow you to do this over the phone and from what I understand, in most cases, they are not worth the investment.
Walk in and say “get me one of those, thanks.”
I HAVE THE POWER OF THE NQ; DEAL WITH IT
s.hall:
I HAVE THE POWER OF THE PURSE–DEAL WITH IT.
The hoopster shakes his head..
Not only the power of the purse..but
the power of love, my heart and soul..She is the quiet voice that directs me, give me direction, vision and hope..she instills in our children character, Love and strength..she inspires me and inspires our parents and grandparents..
She gives us pride and direction..
She never went to college but she is smarter than anyone i know..She is very beautiful but even if she wasn’t..She would still be the most beautiful woman i know.. She rises above the petty of every day life to bring those around her to a higher plain..we are at a party and every one in the room wants to chat with her..to be around her..to be her friend..
Special is a word that only few can aspire too..
She is that and more…
hh, my thoughts. 1) that was very sweet. 2) might cut and paste it and put it in your valentine’s day card to your sweetie. explain how it came about here at nq.
/ said with playful teasing. dr. phil is busy w/ britney and gave me license to render relationship advice here at nq.
wethornet, your man in mizzourah.
Anon writes: American women are not “oppressed”. You need to wake up. According to the Department of Labor, 51% of “managerial and professional jobs” nationwide are occupied by women.
You don’t need to apologize for being a man, anon, but you might want to apologize for being the dumbest motherfucker here.
The category you describe is actually cited in Bureau of Labor Statistics docs as “Managerial, Professional, and Related Occupations”, which permits your disingenuous reading of the troo fax.
Under the subcategory “Management Occupations” we find that women are outnumbered by men, 63% to 36%, which is of course what everyone besides your redneck friends has been telling you all along; that a glass ceiling exists in management positions. And that’s without factoring in the difference in compensation afforded male and female for equal employment, which of course you in your misogyny ignore completely.
So how is this disparity in management positions offset elsewhere in the larger category of “management and professional”? (you might ask if you were the sort of person who would actually want to know).
Simple: largely it appears in the subcategory “education, training and library occupations,” where women outnumber men three-to-one, as you might expect in a category which has traditonally been both largely relegated to women– and of course, underpaid.
You’e a jerk, man. Face it.
Sorry, forgot: pdf summary here.
Parse away, Sonny.
CV, you rock man. Big time. Many a time I wished I had your skills, especially arguing with right wingers on line. In my own mind I’ve said, “I need to Vosburg’ this SOB” – you throw those good body shots like Larry does.
Thanks, and look who’s talking. Hear you rocked the Wiltern last month, Bobby. Good to see our little Jamesetta home again.
Incidentally, somewhere I’ve got a picture of the enormous glass and steel shoebox that developers were briefly planning to replace the Wiltern theater with back in the eighties (before the community got wind of it). Glad we put the kibosh on that little scheme, as I imagine are you; the Wiltern is one of L.A.’s best venues.
Chris,
That would have been shameful. A gorgeous venue, the Wiltern. I know we’ll be at the Bowl this summer, if you’re not busy I’d be only too happy to hook you up and we could hang.
I’ve been holding off on reading “The Butcher’s Cleaver” – I’m trying to save it for the plane ride to Reno this weekend.
Bestest,
Bobby
Thank you, SusanUnPC, for your tremendously thoughtful post. I’m dismayed by some of the comments, particularly “anon.”
Although I’m a Canadian, I’ve been horrified by the incredibly misogynistic language and commentary about Sen. Clinton. Last night I was so angry, I finally blogged about it.
Best wishes to you,
GDK
Great blog, goshdarnitkitty – wonderful writing. You are now a fave.
Did you know Windsor is SOUTH of Detroit? (my home)
Thank you, Taters! You are right, of course, about Windsor’s latitude (I should really know better…my aunt lives there)
Cheers!
GDK
GDK,
Thank you for the response. Any hockey fans in the family?
Taters–yep, my sister’s crazy for the Leafs (she lives in Toronto). My dad’s always watched the Leafs, but to call him a fan might a bit of a stretch
Mr. Kitty & I are both hopelessly “out of it,” wrt hockey, and sports in general.
Cheers!
GDK
Lest anyone think me a coldhearted chauvanist, I thought this was reprehensible. Any differences I have with Senator Clinton are political and not at all because she is of the superior gender.
Lol! I really doubt that’s crossed anyone’s mind, Sometimes.
There is one female CEO of a Fortune 50, equalling 2 per cent.
and a few Fortune 500 execs that are women.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0704/gallery.F500_womenCEOs.fortune/
Sexism can be ugly.
Here is an attempt at using it for humor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvoaztR140Q&feature=related
(Badgers can be ugly…)
He’s a man, baby!
(/Austin Powers)
[...] on everything from the double standard (Obama photo vs. the Obama-ite who wore a misogynistic “Iron My Shirt” t-shirt) to Obama’s, um, flexible words on the war in Iraq (”I don’t know” response [...]
The myth of female oppression is alive and well. Call me when you get drafted into the military, when You have to pay alimony. When you die seven years earlier. And we have to feel sorry for the “glass ceiling”. Screw that. How about the glass cellar, dangerous jobs that kill men more often. Men work at jobs like a firefighter to risk their lives for people, only to be hated by man hating pieces of filth that make up society. How convenient. How many women beg to work in a coal mine. Very few. It is men who built the houses, the governments, the medical inventions that allow us to live into our 70’s. If MEN didn’t exist, we would all be living in a cave in a middle of nowhere, with no air conditioning, no medicine,no nothing. So to you feminist angry man-bashers, SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!!! You don’t know what real OPPRESSION is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could send you in a time machine back to the year 600, make sure there are NO made-made inventions to help you make your lives better, and see how you like it. That’s what you deserve!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chris Vosberg said: “You don’t need to apologize for being a man, anon, but you might want to apologize for being the dumbest motherfucker here.” Fuck you, Chris Vosberg. GET LOST. There is NO WAGE GAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’ve compared my paychecks with other people. I’ve seen the numbers with my own eyes. Men and women make the same money for the same jobs for the same hours. Chris says: “Under the subcategory “Management Occupations” we find that women are outnumbered by men, 63% to 36%,”
And we’re supposed to feel sorry for women as a whole because “Only” 36 percent of managers are women? As opposed to stinking homeless men with no money. (Men make 85 percent of the homeless.) Get a clue, Chris Vosberg!!!!!!!!!!!! UP YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here’s another place women outnumber men as teachers in grade school, so the feminist tyrants can hate and persecute little boys and brainwash them into hating themselves. Fuck the public schools!!!!!!!!!If YOU think MEN are so oppresssive, Form your own goddamn all-woman country. Build your own houses, invent your own products. Change your own tire, collect your own damn garbage with your own trucks. If you don’t “need a man”, prove it. Do it now!!!!!!!!! Live without man-made products!!!Be “liberated” cows!!!!!! Move into a cave with nothing but bugs to keep you company!!!!!!!No technology for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!That’s “patriarchal” crap!!!!!!!! By the way, if there was no “patrirachy” in the early and middle ages,(only abortions) with life expectancy then at 30!, NONE of us would NOT exist today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Why didn’t your parents Abort you?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO Stop biting the hand that feeds you, MEN baiting spoiled brats!!!!!SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank God Hillary is out.
“Iron mt shirt?” Where did these guys come from? Did some time machine transport them here from the 1930s’ and in the process lobotomize them? Whtat kind of idiot protest is that? All they do is saylook at me ig stupid ass-backwards man!! On loud speaker….hence the demise of the Republican party and thier radical right wing-nuts.
Yell that “Iron my shirt” genius idea phrase as loud and long as you can all the better to hasten the end of your kind!