Comments on: Common Sense + Expert Opinions on Obama’s Dangerously Flawed Health Care Plan http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/ Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:05:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: Mr.Murder http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-126287 Mr.Murder Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:37:00 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-126287 Thanks Marge, Upstairs, I've taken Liberty to post part of the same Krugman piece. Thanks Marge,
Upstairs, I’ve taken Liberty to post part of the same Krugman piece.

]]> By: TeakwoodKite http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-125870 TeakwoodKite Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:44:02 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-125870 Has Obama said anything about the 1.8 billion dollar energy project in Illinois that got yanked for political reasons by the Bushman? Seems like a no brainer to stump that one for "Clean" energy. I have not heard a word from him about it. Unless the $300,000 from Exelon would like a conflict of interest. I can't imagine what CEO Mr Rowe of Exelon is feeling after leaving the drive-up one burger short of a deal. Has Obama said anything about the 1.8 billion dollar energy project in Illinois that got yanked for political reasons by the Bushman?

Seems like a no brainer to stump that one for “Clean” energy. I have not heard a word from him about it. Unless the $300,000 from Exelon would like a conflict of interest. I can’t imagine what CEO Mr Rowe of Exelon is feeling after leaving the drive-up one burger short of a deal.

]]> By: norrismorris http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-125863 norrismorris Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:33:30 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-125863 He is lying about health care, but also NYTimes article about his ties to lobbyist for Exelon, USA's largest nuclear pant operators. Exelon is situated in Illinois. Times covered it 2 days ago. Obama lied in first 2 debates and angrily declared he takes no money from lobbyists. He received close to $300,000 from Exelon lobbyist, and $74,350.00 from Exelon. read www.suntimes.com Chicago SunTimes has series of invesatigative articles on Obama and corrupt donor awaiting trial. access Obama archives. He is lying about health care, but also NYTimes article about his ties to lobbyist for Exelon, USA’s largest nuclear pant operators. Exelon is situated in Illinois. Times covered it 2 days ago. Obama lied in first 2 debates and angrily declared he takes no money from lobbyists. He received close to $300,000 from Exelon lobbyist, and $74,350.00 from Exelon.

read http://www.suntimes.com Chicago SunTimes has series of invesatigative articles on Obama and corrupt donor awaiting trial. access Obama archives.

]]> By: norrismorris http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-125855 norrismorris Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:27:28 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-125855 Obama's honesty is flawed about the health plan and about his land deal kickback in Chicago from indicted felon and Obama patron Tony Rezko coming to trial feb 25th. Obama has been mentored and both elections to state and US Senate were bankrolled by Rezko. When Obama approved slumlord rezko's rehabs with government subsidies for rehabbing slums in Obama's district.....Rezko stopped giving heat,repairs, and non payment of mortgages. Thousands of apartments went into forclosure and went empty. Obama's sweetheart real estate deal as favor to Obama is all outlined in Chicago Sun Times by team headed by Tim Novak. This story may develop even more legs as Tony Rezko goes to trial on Feb 25 for corruption, kickbacks, and fraud. Obama accepted $300,000 land deal as Rezko was being investigated prior to his federal indictment. There's amazingly much more but so far he's been teflon. His health care is designed to avoid universal healthcare. We cannot drive without car insurance and this has even greater implications. For Chicago Sun Times investigative series on Obama and Rezko, go to: www.suntimes.com and access Obama Archives. Obama’s honesty is flawed about the health plan and about his land deal kickback in Chicago from indicted felon and Obama patron Tony Rezko coming to trial feb 25th.

Obama has been mentored and both elections to state and US Senate were bankrolled by Rezko. When Obama
approved slumlord rezko’s rehabs with government subsidies for rehabbing slums in Obama’s district…..Rezko stopped giving heat,repairs, and non payment of mortgages. Thousands of apartments went into forclosure and went empty.

Obama’s sweetheart real estate deal as favor to Obama is all outlined in Chicago Sun Times by team headed by Tim Novak. This story may develop even more legs as Tony Rezko goes to trial on Feb 25 for corruption, kickbacks, and fraud. Obama accepted $300,000 land deal as Rezko was being investigated prior to his federal indictment. There’s amazingly much more but so far he’s been teflon. His health care is designed to avoid universal healthcare. We cannot drive without car insurance and this has even greater implications.

For Chicago Sun Times investigative series on Obama and Rezko, go to: http://www.suntimes.com and access Obama Archives.

]]> By: apishapa http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-125479 apishapa Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:30:13 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-125479 My daughter's boyfriend is nineteen years old. He has beensuffering from severe back pain for several months, but couldn't afford to go to a doctor. He lives with his father, but finally lied and said he lives with his mother so he can get medicaid through her. That was the only way they could afford for him to get x-rays. This country's treatment of the disadvantaged is shameful. Single payer health care is the only way anyone is going to get adequate care. Insurance companies will just jack up the deductible is they are forced to cover everyone. I have insurance, but my kids have to be really sick to go to the doctor. I haven't gone to a doctor for any reason for 14 years (when my last son was born). My deductible is $1000/person and I can't afford that, so I pay a premium every month and never get a damned thing back. I would gladly pay more in taxes and be able to go to a doctor. My daughter’s boyfriend is nineteen years old. He has beensuffering from severe back pain for several months, but couldn’t afford to go to a doctor. He lives with his father, but finally lied and said he lives with his mother so he can get medicaid through her. That was the only way they could afford for him to get x-rays.

This country’s treatment of the disadvantaged is shameful. Single payer health care is the only way anyone is going to get adequate care. Insurance companies will just jack up the deductible is they are forced to cover everyone. I have insurance, but my kids have to be really sick to go to the doctor. I haven’t gone to a doctor for any reason for 14 years (when my last son was born). My deductible is $1000/person and I can’t afford that, so I pay a premium every month and never get a damned thing back.

I would gladly pay more in taxes and be able to go to a doctor.

]]> By: Krugman: If Obama Is President, There’s No Chance for Universal Health Care : NO QUARTER http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124884 Krugman: If Obama Is President, There’s No Chance for Universal Health Care : NO QUARTER Mon, 04 Feb 2008 05:57:23 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124884 [...] Here’s one key reason why mandatory universal coverage works: It forces insurance companies to cover everyone. Another reason is that even young, robustly healthy people can face enormous medical bills from accidents or from rapidly growing diseases hitting the young, including diabetes and high blood pressure (that can be discovered and treated before they become expensive). And if they sign up before they get sick, the plan’s costs would be lower. (Find out more here, including great analyses from Ezra Klein, Steve Clemons and The Urban Institute.) [...] [...] Here’s one key reason why mandatory universal coverage works: It forces insurance companies to cover everyone. Another reason is that even young, robustly healthy people can face enormous medical bills from accidents or from rapidly growing diseases hitting the young, including diabetes and high blood pressure (that can be discovered and treated before they become expensive). And if they sign up before they get sick, the plan’s costs would be lower. (Find out more here, including great analyses from Ezra Klein, Steve Clemons and The Urban Institute.) [...]

]]> By: kenoshaMarge http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124723 kenoshaMarge Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:36:21 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124723 No war is forgotten by the Vets and their families. But unless every war is fought by all the people and all the people pay a price vets and their wars are forgotten by the general public. That's why I don't understand why ANY Vet or anyone in the military has any use for the bunch of draft dodging cowards that are willing to fight wars with the last drop of somebody elses' blood. No war is forgotten by the Vets and their families. But unless every war is fought by all the people and all the people pay a price vets and their wars are forgotten by the general public.

That’s why I don’t understand why ANY Vet or anyone in the military has any use for the bunch of draft dodging cowards that are willing to fight wars with the last drop of somebody elses’ blood.

]]> By: simon http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124717 simon Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:18:29 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124717 Mine served in Korea, the forgotten war. But in so many ways, it was a precursor to what we're facing today. Mine served in Korea, the forgotten war.

But in so many ways, it was a precursor to what we’re facing today.

]]> By: TeakWoodKite http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124689 TeakWoodKite Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:33:27 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124689 Mine, WWII Australian Navy; demolition. He had to wait until the smell was nutralized before swearing. He didn't want talk much about it except to say the indigenous people of the south pacific made some wicked moonshine. Mine, WWII Australian Navy; demolition. He had to wait until the smell was nutralized before swearing. He didn’t want talk much about it except to say the indigenous people of the south pacific made some wicked moonshine.

]]> By: simon http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124678 simon Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:02:08 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124678 Obama/zionist neofeminist shoe nazis? Reminds me of a poem, for some reason, An Essay on Criticism, by Alexander Pope. Obama/zionist neofeminist shoe nazis?

Reminds me of a poem, for some reason, An Essay on Criticism, by Alexander Pope.

]]> By: bama_barrron http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124675 bama_barrron Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:59:26 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124675 Marge ... my father was a china marine ... and he swore like one when he smelled bs ... LMAO Marge … my father was a china marine … and he swore like one when he smelled bs … LMAO

]]> By: simon http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124673 simon Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:54:46 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124673 I enjoy Krugman, too, I always look forward to reading his work, a very intelligent man. I enjoy Krugman, too, I always look forward to reading his work, a very intelligent man.

]]> By: kenoshaMarge http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124665 kenoshaMarge Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:36:23 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124665 Right. He taught us that if it didn't smell right you ought to take a closer look. Might offend the nose at times but better than taking something smelly home. Dad was a WW II vet and after what he and his buddies went through they had no time for bull. I think a lot of vets are like that. Right. He taught us that if it didn’t smell right you ought to take a closer look. Might offend the nose at times but better than taking something smelly home.

Dad was a WW II vet and after what he and his buddies went through they had no time for bull. I think a lot of vets are like that.

]]> By: TeakWoodKite http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124628 TeakWoodKite Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:28:52 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124628 I also don’t care much for b.s. (You got from your dad no?) :) I also don’t care much for b.s. (You got from your dad no?) :)

]]> By: kenoshaMarge http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124615 kenoshaMarge Sun, 03 Feb 2008 19:57:03 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124615 Thank you very much for the kind words barrron. My father was a Master Sergeant in the United States Army until I was twelve and then he retired and went to work as a machine repairman at American Motors in Kenosha Wisconsin. Two things were sacred in our house when I was growing up, Vets and Unions. I am an old bat now but those two things are still supremely important to me. I also don't care much for b.s. and so when I think I'm getting some shoveled my way I do my best to find out the truth. Not somebodies "version" of the truth but the truth as best as I can find from available information. It serves no useful purpose to just get in line when some parade goes marching by if I don't know where the hell they're going and how they intend to get there. When I need information on the ecomony or policies that require knowledge of how money works I usually go to Paul Krugman. I believe him to be a true progressive and an honest man. Thank you very much for the kind words barrron. My father was a Master Sergeant in the United States Army until I was twelve and then he retired and went to work as a machine repairman at American Motors in Kenosha Wisconsin. Two things were sacred in our house when I was growing up, Vets and Unions. I am an old bat now but those two things are still supremely important to me.

I also don’t care much for b.s. and so when I think I’m getting some shoveled my way I do my best to find out the truth. Not somebodies “version” of the truth but the truth as best as I can find from available information.
It serves no useful purpose to just get in line when some parade goes marching by if I don’t know where the hell they’re going and how they intend to get there. When I need information on the ecomony or policies that require knowledge of how money works I usually go to Paul Krugman. I believe him to be a true progressive and an honest man.

]]> By: bama_barrron http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124577 bama_barrron Sun, 03 Feb 2008 18:40:43 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124577 Marge you may not be an expert but you certainly went to one to study ... when krugman speaks, i for one, listen very closely. he has been proven correct many moer time then not ... plus, he is a true progressive! may i also say Marge, i enjoy your posting ... you are well researched and you are obviously for the lunch pail and progressive elements of the democratic party. thank you! Marge you may not be an expert but you certainly went to one to study … when krugman speaks, i for one, listen very closely. he has been proven correct many moer time then not … plus, he is a true progressive!
may i also say Marge, i enjoy your posting … you are well researched and you are obviously for the lunch pail and progressive elements of the democratic party. thank you!

]]> By: terri http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124531 terri Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:27:20 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124531 Yes, he'll have to win on Republican and Independent votes. Personally, I think the Cons will tear him to shreds in the general. The press will stop protecting him and come out strong for the Republican because, after all, they are Republican. The media is owned by big corporations. Even if Obama got elected, there is no question that he simply is not ready, so who would really be running the country? Talk about a co-presidency, Obama/Kennedy? Obama/Rahm Emanuel? Obama/John Kerry, Obama/Kennedy, Kerry, & Rahm? Yes, he’ll have to win on Republican and Independent votes. Personally, I think the Cons will tear him to shreds in the general. The press will stop protecting him and come out strong for the Republican because, after all, they are Republican. The media is owned by big corporations.

Even if Obama got elected, there is no question that he simply is not ready, so who would really be running the country? Talk about a co-presidency, Obama/Kennedy? Obama/Rahm Emanuel? Obama/John Kerry, Obama/Kennedy, Kerry, & Rahm?

]]> By: kenoshaMarge http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124530 kenoshaMarge Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:26:26 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124530 The Obama plan that allows for opting out is a disaster on so many fronts. Here's a little chart I found about the differences between a mandated (Hillary Clinton) plan and a non-mandated plan (Barak Obama): <strong>Without Mandate</strong> Reduction in number of uninsured = 23 million <strong>With Mandate</strong> Reduction in number of uninsured = 45 million <strong>Total Cost without mandate </strong>= $102 billion <strong>Total Cost with mandate</strong> = $124 billion <strong>Cost per newly insured without mandate</strong> = $4400 <strong>Cost per newly insured with mandate</strong> = $2700 I'm no expert but I know which plan looks better to me. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/02/healthcare-numbers/ The Obama plan that allows for opting out is a disaster on so many fronts. Here’s a little chart I found about the differences between a mandated (Hillary Clinton) plan and a non-mandated plan (Barak Obama):

Without Mandate
Reduction in number of uninsured = 23 million

With Mandate
Reduction in number of uninsured = 45 million

Total Cost without mandate = $102 billion

Total Cost with mandate = $124 billion

Cost per newly insured without mandate = $4400

Cost per newly insured with mandate = $2700

I’m no expert but I know which plan looks better to me.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/02/healthcare-numbers/

]]> By: terri http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124528 terri Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:22:52 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124528 I think Obama is way more libertarian than anything. I also think the ideas he is spreading on immigration would end up costing Americans everything we make. I'd like to have one of the "no borders" people explain how we're going to let all comers in here, provide them with social services and then pay for all of it. We would be the only country in the world doing this, so wouldn't millions of people come here to take advantage of the tax-supported services--that they don't have to pay for--and then go back to their country of origin? Illinois had that problem with welfare programs, they were so generous that people all over the country came to our state and signed up on the welfare rolls until Illinois couldn't support it and had to change the system. Just a little musing. I think Obama is way more libertarian than anything. I also think the ideas he is spreading on immigration would end up costing Americans everything we make. I’d like to have one of the “no borders” people explain how we’re going to let all comers in here, provide them with social services and then pay for all of it. We would be the only country in the world doing this, so wouldn’t millions of people come here to take advantage of the tax-supported services–that they don’t have to pay for–and then go back to their country of origin? Illinois had that problem with welfare programs, they were so generous that people all over the country came to our state and signed up on the welfare rolls until Illinois couldn’t support it and had to change the system. Just a little musing.

]]> By: bama_barrron http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124509 bama_barrron Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:38:23 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/02/common-sense-expert-opinions-on-obamas-dangerously-flawed-health-care-plan/#comment-124509 i have always found the "i'm young ... i'm healthy ... i dont need medical insurance" to be one of the most specious and stupid arguments of all time. the young are most likely to be involved in accidents resulting in major injuries which will necessitate long term health care. i find it amazing that so called experts in the insurance debate just ignore this most important fact. finally, the obama plan is one i would expect a libertarian to proffer. it is inherently supporting the idea that health care is a privelege instead of a universal right. as we all know, rights are not conditional and can not be openly sold or bought on a whim. the obama plan would continue to reinforce class inequality as well. why obama hasnt cleaned up this proposal is beyond me; unless he is pandering for more contributions from the insurance lobby. i have always found the “i’m young … i’m healthy … i dont need medical insurance” to be one of the most specious and stupid arguments of all time. the young are most likely to be involved in accidents resulting in major injuries which will necessitate long term health care. i find it amazing that so called experts in the insurance debate just ignore this most important fact.

finally, the obama plan is one i would expect a libertarian to proffer. it is inherently supporting the idea that health care is a privelege instead of a universal right. as we all know, rights are not conditional and can not be openly sold or bought on a whim. the obama plan would continue to reinforce class inequality as well. why obama hasnt cleaned up this proposal is beyond me; unless he is pandering for more contributions from the insurance lobby.

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