FUCK KOS [Updated with Screenshot]
By Larry Johnson
Email: larry_johnson@earthlink.net
Site: http://NoQuarterUSA.net
About: Larry C. Johnson is a former analyst at the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, who moved subsequently in 1989 to the U.S. Department of State, where he served four years as the deputy director for transportation security, antiterrorism assistance training, and special operations in the State Department's Office of Counterterrorism. He left government service in October 1993 and set up a consulting business. He currently is the co-owner and CEO of BERG Associates, LLC (Business Exposure Reduction Group) and is an expert in the fields of terrorism, aviation security, and crisis and risk management, and money laundering investigations. Johnson is the founder and main author of No Quarter, a weblog that addresses issues of terrorism and intelligence and politics. NoQuarterUSA was nominated as Best Political Blog of 2008.[1] He has worked as a private consultant on issues of international terrorism and security for the U.S. Government and private companies. Johnson has appeared as a consultant and commentator in many major newspapers and news programs.[2]
Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 Views
2.1 1996
2.2 1998
2.3 1999
2.4 2000
2.5 2001
2.6 2003
2.6.1 Plame affair
2.7 2008
3 Notes
4 References
5 External links
[edit]Background
Larry Johnson moved to Washington, D.C. in 1979 to begin work on a Ph.D. at the American University. Although he completed successfully all coursework and comprehensive exams, he did not write a dissertation. In 1978 and in 1983-85 he worked in Latin America on community development projects as a community organizer. Returning to the United States in 1985 he joined the Central Intelligence Agency, thanks in part to a letter of recommendation from Republican Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT) that helped to "open doors" for him at the Agency.[3] Johnson entered on duty at the CIA in September 1985 and was a classmate of Valerie Plame. Every member of that class was undercover. After a year in the Career Trainee program, which included a stint with the Afghan Task Force, Johnson was assigned as an analyst in the Middle America Caribbean Division in the Latin American Affairs Office of the Directorate of Intelligence. He received two Exceptional Performance awards and was promoted ultimately to Senior Regional Analyst for Central America.
Johnson remained undercover in the CIA until October 1989, when he resigned from the CIA and started a new job in the Office of Counter Terrorism at the Department of State. Johnson played an instrumental role in launching the Terrorism Rewards program international advertising campaign (working with Diplomatic Security officers Brad Smith and Michael Parks). [4] Johnson also was involved in a variety of crisis management response operations, including the release of hostages from Lebanon and liaison with the Pan Am 103 families. He left government service in October 1993 and started his own business as a consultant.
After leaving government service, Johnson became a frequent guest on many major television news shows when a question of terrorism came up. He was first interviewed by CNN following the capture of Carlos the Jackal. Johnson subsequently appeared on CNN, ABC's Nightline, CBS, the BBC, MSNBC, the Jim Lehrer News Hour, NBC, and NPR. In December of 1999, for example, Johnson was hired by NBC to serve as its terrorist expert for the Y2000 and was in Time Square with Tom Brokaw and Katie Couric ("a lot of fun and the best way to see in the New Year"). Johnson also was hired in January 2002 as a Fox News Analyst and remained under contract until February 2003.
Since 1994 a significant focus of Johnson's consulting work has been with the U.S. military special operations forces in scripting and conducting military counter terrorism exercises. He traveled under orders from the U.S. military to Iraq in May 2006 to work on a short term project.
A registered Republican who supported President Bush in 2000, Johnson became a strong critic of the Bush administration in May 2003 for its conduct of the war in Iraq and, a few months later, for its role in the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame.[5] He was also featured in the 2004 political documentary Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism. Since Robert Novak's controversial disclosure of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative in July 2003, Johnson has contributed to public discourse on intelligence matters, often sparking further controversy. He has been interviewed by both the mass media and the alternative media and published commentaries on a variety of issues, including the Plame affair, the controversy concerning Mary McCarthy, and the resignation of Porter Goss as Director of Central Intelligence.
[edit]Views
This article or section may contain an inappropriate mixture of prose and timeline.
Please help convert this timeline into prose or, if necessary, a list.
[edit]1996
In 1996, Johnson noted that terrorism worldwide was on the decline. "Terrorist incidents [both internationally and in the US] have fallen to levels not seen since the 1970s. Whether measured by the number of incidents, the number of fatalities, or the number of groups, raw statistics demonstrate that the level of terrorist violence has declined since the mid-1980s. In fact, the evidence suggests terrorism was more widespread and deadly 10 years ago."[6]
He also wrote an op-ed piece for the New York Times suggesting that the newer and more deadly terrorist threat to the U.S. was embodied by "networks of terrorists, mostly foreign, working within its borders." Exemplifying this threat was Ramzi Yousef, one of the masterminds behind the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center. In the article, Johnson suggests that enhanced cooperation between intelligence agencies, particularly the FBI and CIA, is mandatory to meet the growing threat of terror networks.[7]
[edit]1998
In 1998, Johnson argued that while overall terrorism was declining, the threat from bin Laden and al-Qaeda should be the focus of American counterterrorism policy:
The nature of the threat posed by Bin Ladin is highlighted by my final chart, number 7. Osama Bin Ladin and individuals associated with him have killed and wounded more Americans than any other group. This chart also illustrates that groups such as Hamas and the Tamil Tigers (LTTE) prior to 1998 have killed more foreigners in the anti-US terrorist attacks. If we take into account the bombings of the US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, Osama's status as the most lethal terrorist is certain.[8]
In addition, he told USA Today that bin Laden had participated in "virtually every major attack of terrorism against the United States" in the 1990s. Johnson underlined the threat posed by bin Laden, saying that he was possessed by "hatred and craziness." If left unanswered, "he would continue to terrorize Americans around the world. He has no compunction about killing women and children. He's a complete egalitarian in his murderous attitude."[9]
[edit]1999
In an interview with PBS's Frontline for its 1999 program, Hunting bin Laden, Johnson discussed Osama bin Laden.[10] According to Johnson, Americans had "tended to make Osama bin Laden sort of a superman in Muslim garb." "Actually," he continues, "Osama bin Laden, in my view, represents more of a symptom of a problem, and the problem is this: the Saudi Arabian government, not just Osama bin Laden but many people in Saudi Arabia, have been sending money to radical Islamic groups for years." Johnson continued:
When you look at who's killed Americans in the last 10 years, the individuals he's supported and backed--I'm basing that upon the initial information that's been released in the indictments and conversations with others in the intelligence communities--Osama bin Laden has been the one killing Americans. No other terrorist group in the world has been out killing Americans except for Osama bin Laden.... Osama bin Laden remains out there as the one really targeting us. So, we recognize that he's the threat. He's serious about wanting to kill Americans, but as long as he's in Afghanistan, as long as he doesn't have access to a cell phone, as long as he can't just hop on a plane and travel wherever he wants without fear of being arrested, his ability to plan and conduct terrorist operations is extremely limited. We have to recognize [that] he would like to do a lot of damage. He would like to kill Americans, but wanting to is different from being able to, having the full capabilities in place.[11]
In the interview, Johnson doubted the ability of members of bin Laden's organization to plan and put their lives on the line:
There's not another Ali or Mustafa out there at this point and Osama bin Laden in my view has not been a very effective organizer or leader. He talks a great game and puts out terrific threats as far as stirring the passions in the United States and maybe firing up the imaginations of some young Muslims throughout the world. But when push comes to shove, can he get a group of people who are together who will say: we are going to plan an operation, we're going to put our lives on the line, we're going to go out and try and kill people and we don't care what the consequence is? It hasn't happened.[12]
Frontline asked:
[Is it] ... fair to say what you're saying is that the president of the United States, his national security advisor, his deputy national security advisor for counter-terrorism, are basically blowing smoke [about the danger posed by bin Laden] and his followers]?
Johnson responded:
They're grossly exaggerating the problem. They are hyping it. They shouldn't be talking about rising terrorism. Instead of saying "terrorism's rising," it's not. "Terrorism is spreading," it's not. "More people are dying from terrorism," not the case. But what they should be saying is, "There's one individual out there that really doesn't like us, and he's made it his mission in life to kill Americans, and we've gotta deal with him." But we need to have a voice of reason in that process instead of putting ourselves out crying wolf, because this is essentially what's taking place right now. They call it the administration that cries wolf.[12]
[edit]2000
Johnson co-authored an article in 2000 with Milt Bearden which focused on the threat posed by al-Qaeda specifically, rather than terrorism trends in general. Beardon and Johnson note that new information emerging about the bombings at Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 points to the threat posed by Imad Mugniyah and Osama Bin Laden will require "a coordinated policy that will employ a full range of covert, clandestine, diplomatic, and military operations," concluding:
The Clinton Administration has shot its bolt on the terrorist problem with small effect, and no last minute show of force will change the record. A new administration can start afresh with a more sharply defined set of terrorism goals – Mughniyeh and bin Laden and their protectors for starters – and bring the full, coordinated force of American diplomatic, military, and intelligence capabilities to bear on the problem.[13]
[edit]2001
After Johnson's testimony to the special forum at the U.S. Senate, Gary J. Schmitt, executive director and CEO of the Project for the New American Century, refers in the Daily Standard (blog) to an op-ed piece Johnson wrote two months prior to the 9/11 attacks, claiming that Johnson argued that the US had little to fear from terrorism.[14]
In an editorial entitled "The Declining Terrorist Threat," published in the New York Times on 10 July 2001, Johnson says:
Judging from news reports and the portrayal of villains in our popular entertainment, Americans are bedeviled by fantasies about terrorism. They seem to believe that terrorism is the greatest threat to the United States and that it is becoming more widespread and lethal. They are likely to think that the United States is the most popular target of terrorists. And they almost certainly have the impression that extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.... None of these beliefs are based in fact.... While terrorism is not vanquished, in a world where thousands of nuclear warheads are still aimed across the continents, terrorism is not the biggest security challenge confronting the United States, and it should not be portrayed that way.[15]
Ten days after the 9/11 attacks, after quoting the above passage, Timothy Noah concludes a post in his "Chatterbox" feature at Slate: "Johnson's analysis, we now see, was bold, persuasive, and 100 percent wrong."[16] Johnson defended himself against such attacks:
The rightwing is resurrecting an op-ed I wrote in July 2001. I stand by the full article. It is still relevant today. I am accused, incorrectly, of ignoring the threat of terrorism. In fact, I correctly noted that the real threat emanated from Bin Laden and Islamic extremism. President Bush, for his part, ignored the CIA warning in August 2001 that Al Qaeda was posed to strike inside the United States.[17]
After September 11, Johnson appeared several times on FOX News to address the question of military action against terrorism. On 14 November, he defended the FBI's proposal to interview 5,000 students in the U.S. suspected of having information relevant to the September 11 investigations:
I think they should talk to everyone that they feel they have a need to talk to. I mean, look, this is war. This is not a legal proceeding. This isn't the O.J. Simpson trial. The folks that attacked us -- they murdered Americans. And we've got to recognize that in wartime, we should do things differently.[18]
[edit]2003
In January 2003, Johnson wrote an analysis of the relationship between the upcoming U.S. invasion of Iraq and the threat of transnational terrorism. According to Johnson, Bremer's response was to tell him that "it didn't matter what Saddam did or didn't do, we were going to war."[19] The paper warned that an invasion would "do little to destroy the infrastructure of radical Islamic terrorism responsible for the 9-11 attacks." Noting that Saddam Hussein's regime has been a longtime supporter of regional terrorist organizations such as the PLO, Johnson examines contacts between Saddam Hussein and transnational terrorist organizations such as al-Qaeda:
There is no doubt that Iraq is a state sponsor of terrorism—i.e., a country that provides financial support, safe haven, training, or weapons and explosives to groups or individuals that carry out terrorist attacks. . . . According to Central Intelligence Agency data, there is no credible evidence implicating Iraq in any mass casualty terrorist attacks since 1991. . . .
Johnson notes that the period immediately leading up to 2003 saw a rise of activity surrounding terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, suggesting that "Iraq is willing to help a movement that it would otherwise oppose on ideological grounds. Nonetheless," Johnson concludes, "it is important to understand that Iraqi entreaties to Al Qaeda, are most likely intended as a tactic to bolster Iraq’s ability to fight off a U.S. invasion rather than a deep-seated theological and ideological commitment to the terrorist agenda of Bin Laden.[20]
In that analysis Johnson also warns that the U.S.-led invasion was likely to backfire:
In fact there is a serious risk that a U.S. led war against Iraq may crystallize the diffused anger in the Arab and Muslim world — a heretofore unattained goal of bin Laden and his followers — and persuade more Muslim youths to take up the terrorist banner against America and her citizens.... If we decide to invade Iraq we must be prepared for the contingency that our attack will inspire young Muslims to pursue jihad against the West in general and the United States in particular. Just as the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan rallied many Muslims, especially young adults to the cause of jihad, a U.S. attack may enable Islamic extremists to attract new followers.[20]
Johnson also gave interviews on the topic of what to do with captured al-Qaeda leaders; while he did not condone torture, he suggested that a "sleep deprivation and reward system" might be useful for getting information from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed:
I don't see a constitutional right to have eight hours of sleep. You shouldn't subject someone to freezing but they don't get to wear mink coats, either.[21]
In May 2003, Johnson joined members of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) in condemning the manipulation of intelligence for political purposes:
It is a misuse and abuse of intelligence. The president was being misled. He was ill served by the folks who are supposed to protect him on this. Whether this was witting or unwitting, I don't know, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.[22]
[edit]Plame affair
After Robert Novak wrote a column identifying the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson as a CIA officer, the media invited Johnson to comment on the ensuing scandal because he had been a member of the same Career Trainee class with Valerie Plame Wilson. For example, in October 2003, he appeared on Democracy Now to discuss the Plame affair. He told interviewer Amy Goodman that Valerie Wilson's cover should have been respected whether she was an "analyst" or a "cleaning lady": "if she's undercover she's undercover, period. If the media allows themselves to get distracted with those kinds of curve balls, they ignore the issue."[23]
He told a Senate Democratic Policy Committee in October 2003, "My classmates and I have been betrayed. Together, we have kept the secrets of each other's identities a secret for 18 years. Each and every one of us have kept that secret, whether we were in the CIA, in other government service or in the private sector. But this issue is not just about a blown cover. It is about the destruction of the very essence, the core of human intelligence collection activities: plausible deniability, apparently, for partisan domestic political reasons."[24]
Johnson testified at a special joint hearing of Congressional and Senate Democrats on 22 July 2005 about the consequences arising from the Plame affair.[25]
[edit]2008
In 2008, Johnson emerged as a staunch supporter of Hillary Clinton and a strong critic of Barack Obama. Larry Johnson's blog, NoQuarterUSA, became a rally point for Clinton supporters wary of Barack Obama's qualifications to be president. Supporters of Barack Obama insist that a story that first appeared on Johnson's blog--a report that Republican operatives have a tape of Michelle Obama making racially insenstive comments about caucasians--has been "refuted" Barack Obama's Fight the Smears website.[26]. However, Johnson never claimed to have the tape and reported that the Republican operatives controlling it intended to release the tape sometime after the Democratic Convention in August 2008. On October 21, however, he asserted that the operative in possession of the tape had been instructed by the McCain campaign not to release it.[27]
[edit]Notes
^ http://2008.weblogawards.org/polls/best-political-coverage/
^ Larry C. Johnson, "About Me," No Quarter (personal blog).
^ "Former CIA Official Larry Johnson Delivers Democratic Radio Address," transcript posted on official Democratic National Committee's website for The Democratic Party, July 23, 2005], accessed November 21, 2006.
^ Interview with Larry Johnson, confirmed by his supervisor
^ "Ex-CIA official Blasts Bush on Leak of Operative's Name: Democrats' Radio Address Focuses on White House Aides' Role," CNN July 23, 2005, accessed November 21, 2006.
^ Gail Russell Chaddock, "Why Terrorists Pick On the French," Christian Science Monitor (5 December 1996) p. 1.
^ Larry Johnson, "Terrorists Among Us," New York Times (20 August 1996) p. A19.
^ Terrorism Today
^ Lee Michael Katz, "The Hunt for Bin Laden," USA Today (21 August 1998) p. 1A.
^ See Transcript of original interview with Larry C. Johnson, as broadcast on Frontline in 1999. Cf. "Interview: Larry C. Johnson," for Hunting bin Laden, transcript of interview broadcast on Frontline subsequently on 13 April 2001. See also dedicated PBS webpages for media links: Iraq and the War on Terror, Frontline PBS, online featured programs, accessed 19 November 2006.
^ frontline: hunting bin laden: interviews: larry c. johnson | PBS
^ a b [1].
^ As posted in [2].
^ Gary Schmitt, [ 07/25/2005 "Meet Larry Johnson: The CIA official Turned Democratic Spokesman Has a Pre-9/11 Mindset," Daily Standard (blog), July 25, 2005, accessed November 20, 2006.
^ *Larry C. Johnson, "The Declining Terrorist Threat," The New York Times 10 July 2001: A19.
^ Timothy Noah, "(Not Exactly a) Whopper of the Week: Larry C. Johnson," Chatterbox: Gossip, speculation, and scuttlebutt about politics (blog), hosted by Slate September 21, 2001, accessed November 20, 2006. Note the full context of this quotation:
It is, to be sure, a little bit cheap (and slightly at odds with the usual parameters of this feature) to criticize someone for making an erroneous prediction, particularly after a tragedy. Chatterbox is especially reluctant to tag Johnson because Johnson's op-ed was argued forcefully, backed up meticulously with factual data, and bravely at odds with conventional wisdom at the time of its publication. Add in that Johnson now makes his living as a consultant to corporations about terrorism, and therefore had everything to gain by exaggerating the dangers terrorism poses, and the guy practically looks like a hero. Chatterbox, who two decades ago was an editor for the New York Times op-ed page, would have published Johnson's piece had he still been an editor there this past July. In his capacity at Slate, Chatterbox might well have written up Johnson's prediction, and perhaps even endorsed it.
But boy, is he glad he didn't! Johnson's analysis, we now see, was bold, persuasive, and 100 percent wrong. Sadly, a mistake this embarrassing cannot be ignored. As a fellow skeptic, Chatterbox in all sincerity wishes Johnson better luck next time.
^ Larry C. Johnson, "Johnson vs. President Bush," re-posted and updated by SusanHu at DailyKos (blog) July 25, 2005.
^ FOX News Interview with John Garrett (14 November 2001) Transcript #111405cb.260.
^ [3].
^ a b Larry C. Johnson, "Setting the Record Straight on Iraqi Terrorism," posted in Booman Tribune: A Progressive Community (personal blog) 27 January 2003. accessed 19 November 2006.
^ Qtd. in Toby Harnden, "CIA 'pressure' on al-Qa'eda chief," The London Telegraph 5 March 2003: 16.
^ Qtd. in Nicolas D. Kristof, "Save Our Spooks," The New York Times 30 May 2003:A6.
^ Democracy Now (3 October 2003)[4]
^ U.S. Senate, Democratic Policy Committee Meeting on the CIA Operative Leak, (24 October 2003).
^ Letter to the Senate.[Needs full source citation; see "References" section.]
^ Tumulty, Karen (2008-06-12). "Will Obama's Anti-Rumor Plan Work?", Time Magazine. Retrieved on 20 June 2008.:"a story that apparently first made a big splash on the Internet in late May in a post by pro-Hillary Clinton blogger Larry Johnson"
^ Whitey Tape, API, Phil Berg, and Andy MartinSee Authors Posts (1090) on February 14, 2008 at 2:56 AM in Current Affairs
What a bunch of goddamn, Orwellian fascists. Here’s the message waiting for me when I checked in tonight:
Okay Mr. Kos. Here’s a word for you: GO FUCK YOURSELF. (Actually, that’s three words. My bad.)
This wannabee poseur and his gang of Animal Farm pig imitators have lost touch with reality.
About a month ago I had an exchange with Markos concerning troll rating Susan Hu (SusanUnPC), who had the audacity to try to defend one of my posts. He said (and I can’t give you the exact quote until I get back to my puter in Maryland) that Susan was being “disciplined” for not allowing the community to punish me for my anti-Obama postings. The little fucking twerp obviously has never read nor understood George Orwell’s Animal Farm. For the cultural illiterates (and I hope there are none on this blog), Orwell described an oppressed society of farm animals who took control of an overbearing farmer’s property. And before you could say, Barack Obama is incompetent, the pigs began punishing the other farm animals. They assumed the worst traits of the humans they vanquished.
Well Markos and crowd. Orwell was right. Fuck you people. I won’t post and I won’t read. But most of all, I won’t apologize. I have nothing to apologize for other than making the false assumption that you clowns gave a shit about freedom of expression or liberty. You guys are John Bolton and Dick Cheney in drag. You are welcome to kiss my ass.
Wow. That is pretty angry stuff right there.
I have a question about this statement you made:
Is that sexist or homophobic, or both?
On this blog you are allowed to make up your own mind. No thought police to tell you what you need to think. And if the thought of John Bolton allows you to pop wood I will gladly pay for your mental health counseling.
If you had to choose, John or Josh?
Sexually?
You are from kos, arent you?
actually, that was pretty funny.
If you had to choose, John or Josh?
Flirt
Larry - one of the respectable things about your site is the degree of un-censorship. I also cannot express clearly enough for you in the words of any language exactly how much I agree with you about Markos’ Magic Money Machine and his Little Munchkins too. They are about as overbearing, egotistical, and narrow as it gets. Orwell’s book is the EXACT comparison, and I credit you with having easily made that connection.
A lot of liberals and leftists agree with you about Kos. It’s not just about Hillary Clinton being out of vogue at that web site. Anyone that does not embrace the tone du jour or slogan du jour there can expect to be ostracized by a vacuous mob for it.
They’d be a hair less obnoxious if they didn’t imagine themselves so erudite.
Look on the bright side. You’ve just recovered a bit of your personal time that you can use to enhance your OWN career, not Moulitsas’.
Yes I agree! I’ve been censored over at Huffington so I appreciate the freedom here.
Agreed Larry. All my posts have been removed from Huffington and everything scrubbed but oddly…my profile. Over fifty posts totally removed.
Viva Free Press/blogs as long as it’s pro Obama.
yes, me too, every time I put something up at Huff po is never gets approved and I never use bad language, (I love your title by the way) or misleading statements. Anything questioning Obama or pro Hillary disappears
Same with my posts at CNN.
Ok, I’ll try freedom of speech.
Kos is an arrogant dickhead with a tiny little penis.
It’s why he’s so easily threatened.
How did I do, Larry?
Actually Kos has a bidg cock, Larry and his frien Joe Wilson have small dicks that need triple viagra doses to even be noticed.
You oughta know you cocksucking little bitch.
You have seen Joe Wilson’s wife right? She’s friggin’ hot and brilliant, and she kicks ass in THE man’s world. Not as a waitress at Hooters. Oh wait, forgive me, you actually work at Pier One, right? And if I wasn’t married, I’d love to ride Larry like a Grand National winner. With women of taste, it’s talent and intellect. PS You sure loved Larry and Joe over at KOS when they served your needs. Chucked them under the bus as well, eh? Typical Obama tactic.
This is a great site. Taylor Marsh referred to it. I post on MYDD. Markos sucks. I will never read or post on DKos. Extremist suck. Obama is a cult.
mydd getting like kos!
Good for you Larry. I don’t mind telling you that I don’t know why you ever bothered with them in the first place because you are much too good for KOS. They’re all net neophytes who found a little power on the InterNUT and now they play like the typical Stalinists they are. We don’t need no fascist pigs. We need the truth and you (and folks like Taylor Marsh) are digging it out for us.
Keep it up.
A fan,
Hank Roth
http://pnews.org/
(Army Security and NSA trained; worked for Ike in the White House and for General Curtis LeMay in the War Room at the Pentagon)
Wow, way to cross your own T’s and totally miss the point. I can feel the breeze your bat made from here.
Anger is often caused by fear and I think many are very fearful of Senator Obama and for good reason. He is going to win the popular vote and then how are they going to shove Senator Clinton, bought and paid for by lobbists, down our throats.
That would explain the Obama supporters anger, the fear their candidate would get found insubstansive in actualy policy.
You care to explain how voluntary compliance for companies leaking nuclear meterial into topwater is an example of being against special interests, or would you let Obama’s Senior staffer David Axelrod of Exelon do that?
“I agree, it is the change Obama brings, threatening the status quo, it pisses off people like Larry, new power, new people, like Kos.”
This is how you gain entry, they really aren’t able to tell who is friend or foe, Kos so wants to be important, a player, rich and connected. So you can force him into MORE internal chaos. Feed his little knowledge about psy ops “(say irrational exuberance, Polly) his smug arrogance, masking fear, can be exploited, making him think he has control, when he doesn’t. Who is an enemy, who is not?
You want your enemy to attack YOU, in order to gain control of him, gaming asymmetrically, the idea is to destroy the organization from within, understanding the behavioral dynamics.
It is essentially, the same method used against that other effete man, Bush. And koskrew came back with traditional Rovian control methods, yawn.
Koskrew thinks it’s playing on an even playing field, it’s not, that’s the troll, he can’t recognize his enemy, his parameters of battle being traditional, and he’s put himself in a bubble, Obama worship.
So, Kos is insecure about money, his intellect, his ability to compete, and his sexuality, for starters. He’s also become very very angry. So this is fed and played, too, how many times can you provoke Kos to lose control, road rage? And he is not a critical thinker, he is very reactionary, specious.
And off we go.
Also, as an aside, it is given Obama is corrupt, linked to Rezko. What other relationship does this mimic, say, Rezko, Obama and Kos, in relation to the middle east dynamics, behavioral patterns, that is? And it’s safe to assume Kos is socked, too, taking direction from another. So how is it being manipulated, he likes to think of himself as an insurgent.
BTW, this isn’t simply about the election.
If Rezko DOES have ties to terrorism, it is very serious, very, very real.
It’s not a game.
Simon — you’re right its not a game. Obama has been molded for many years for this. How does some nobody from nowhere get his biography published? In this biography he talks about his problems with coke and today its old news. Brilliant!! I don’t know to whom Obama owes his allegence however, its not to us Democrats. Who are the people who gave Obama 130 Mill for this run? As you have stated, at least one is a rich muslim who lives in England. I pray sanity rules and we get a president who loves all Americans and who will bind this nation’s wounds.
As an aside–Oprah who loves to call Obama THE ONE and has turned her program into a propaganda machine for Obama has now gotten permission from the FCC to purchase the Discovery Channel. I’m sure there is no quid pro quo–but it is courious.
wow, you guys are way off the deep end. Maybe a couple miles out! Now Obama is the muslim by way of britain manchurian canidate? This is too funny!
I don’t like to attribute anything to conspiracies; I prefer facts - but you make some really excellent points that I don’t think should be ignored. I guess if it waddles and quacks like a duck, it might be a duck. The amazing part of all this is how much everyone wants to give Obama a free pass. I ask myself why and I don’t want to believe it is because he is Black. I did my part in the civil rights movement and got thrown a lot of places trying to effect change, but I’ve never seen anyone get away with so much without being vetted. Perhaps it is the pendulum effect? It seems like it is wholly the message of “change” and because so many want to be inspired. People want to believe and don’t want any facts. Whenever I bring anything up which questions his veracity I get accused of being a bigot or a liar. It is just too incredible.
Hank Roth
http://pnews.org/
Simon,
As always - well said and right on!
Markos is finished - In his arrogance he just does not realize it yet. The media are just salivating over the Dirt on Obama.
Here is a sample with a Diary I wrote over at Boom - they actually have a few sane people left and it received 2 recommends:
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/2/11/19652/5343
What I wrote is confirmed by none the less than Alexander Cockburn:
https://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/16416
If any of the Bama Cultists would bother to google Znet or Black Agenda Report they would see that INTELLIGENT people of color have deep concerns about Obama.
Once Karl Rove and his Corporate Media minions start, Markos, and other members of the Progressive blogs are finished and their credibily competely trashed. Unfortuantely all of us will suffer for this arrogance and stupidity.
Nah he’ll be defended in the same fanatical way that the fictional Bob Roberts or the real GW Bush were defended.
He’s become too big to fail. But McCain has an easy way to beat him.
Alright, I’ll bite–what easy way does McCain have to beat him?
(Btw, it’s nice to read your name outside of Big Orange.)
Hate to see Kos get knocked personally, perhaps he’d discuss this here to clear up some of the feelings and clarify his position.
Wow!
Paging Dr. Frist, paging Dr. Frist, a psuedo-diagnosis is needed at noquarterusa. Pronto!
no quarter Yoshimi Jojimbo.
>Also, as an aside, it is given Obama is corrupt, linked to Rezko
what the hell?
simon, what you just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things that I have ever read. At no point in your rambling post did you write anything that could even be remotely considered a coherent thought. Everyone online that accidentally read it is now dumber for having done so. May Al’lah have mercy on your soul.
Dufus. Larry’s comments are not about Obama. They’re about Markos. And he’s exactly right.
You have any idea how many people no longer visit DKos?
I agree with you absolutely. I refuse to be exposed to the vitriol and hatred of the Hillary-bashers any more. I guess Larry is just allowing me to get the anger out of my system which is why I can tolerate it from him today.
Anger is also caused by frustration, you know. When humans behave as though they have half the brain alloted to a parrot, and the logic skills of a slug, it does make one despair, and that despair is sometimes expressed as anger.
I never thought so many people could be so stupid as to drink the Believe Bullshit Change Hope Kool Aid, especially when we’ve seen how poorly it played out in a state election, and how badly the citizenry got sold a wimpy, empty suit. There IS an example already out there. It’s not like this shit is new.
When a critical mass won’t learn from history, the rest of us who have are condemned to ride along with those clueless morons as we are driven off the cliff. That does tend to piss some of us off.
“I can feel the breeze “
Alright!! Who pulled the kid’s finger?!!!
Goddammit, that’s no way to treat a guest!!!
Larry - some of us discovered that aspect of “Kos” years ago. It’s an empty echo chamber for retards who want to agree with each other at any given moment. I gave up “Kos” years ago (last Democratic primary) when I discovered that anyone who disagreed with certain premises about Democrats and Republicans or certain slogans (Anybody But Bush) got treated like garbage.
Ultimately, “Kos” is just a career vehicle for Markos Moulitsas, anyway. Being one of his munchkins just means that you are devoting YOUR personal time to enhancing HIS career.
It’s none of those to adults. If right-wing idiots want to censor everything on television, then left-wing idiots clearly want to censor everything on blogs. Since when did saying “Barack Hussein Obama” ever become a bannable offense, as if that isn’t his middle name? So, you can’t even say a man’s LEGAL NAME without getting a warning message? Blogs like Kos and Mydd can drop dead.
Orange Kool-Aid gives me verbal diarrhea.
No thought police ;
Thanks for that.
NQ
God Bless you Larry
Ditto that from me!
This is why I appreciate this blog.
The Peer Pressure game of cliques is nothing new to me. I’ve already sowed my oats in a “progressive organization” and faced this Animal Farm effect.
It was always apparent that this was based on the Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky examples, but what do symbols matter if they only belong to 3 people.
Eli Pariser, Markos, and the others can enjoy their groups, and let the koolaid drinking be their game. But the beauty of expression is if I don’t have to filter it for your delicate ears that are filled with your own ideology and your own values.
Does Larry Johnson engage in comments that offend you? Good, so long as he isn’t being fake in doing so, which he isn’t. That sets him, and others, apart from trolling assholes who don’t even care about the supposed “sexism” or “homophobia” they want to fetch up for a convenient tar and feathering.
There are lots of people here who say things I really disagree with, but because they air them as their views, and not as a sweeping condemnation for those who don’t share their views, I can respect the difference. In doing so, my view expands. I may not change my ultimate position, but I do modify and open up to the other views. They soften the edge on a few topics, and open up options on others.
Having spent the better part of a decade dealing with these types, the list monitors, the moderators, the snobby “i’m so offended” types who use any scrap of humility you may possess to shut you up, I know when I’m being oppressed in my view.
I can write OBAMA IS A FAKE here at No Quarter and feel that I can elaborate on my concerns. Do that elsewhere and see what you get. I bet, I could even take Clinton to task for several things, so long as they are substantive, and not be run off.
The classic overstating of a person’s position is a convenient way to not deal with their actual views. Hyperbole will not help you in trying to answer your critic.
It would be nice if we could all take a chill pill and talk out our differences….how kumbayah. I’d like to think many here could tone down and get to the most substantive explanations too…but guess what…
Righteous anger has its place in dialogue, and respecting the anger of another person is real respect.
Be a good boy.
Be a good girl.
Don’t complain.
Shut up.
Suffer in silence.
If you can play nice, you don’t belong.
Play Nice.
Oppression is filled with lots of little games and mechanisms to make sure you do not vent your concerns. Talking people out of their concerns is coercion.
I recently terminated a ‘friendship’ because the guy could not take “No” for an answer. Every time I raised a concern (legitimate or not) about what I was being asked to do, I was talked out of them without any concern for whether my concerns were met, but so that he could achieve his goals.
This is the same way I’m encountering some of the campaign operators who will not let me air my concerns.
This was also the root of Ahmadenijad’s rant about the Holocaust. When we cannot talk about something, that raises the blood pressure of people who have something to say. SILENCE! YOU WILL NOT TALK ABOUT THAT!
I agree, Fuck Kos. I don’t think they realize what sort of clusterfuck they are. Same with MoveOn and its 15,000 members and their 3.2 million emails.
I have to admit, there are times when someone really needs to call me out on my shit. But it should happen when I’ve overstepped my views and have begun to trample someone else’s view. I try my best to simply stick to how I see it. If you want to vote for Obama, McCain, or RuPaul, then do it. I want you to. Don’t you dare vote for My Candidate.
But you put your hand on my ballot, and you’ll draw back a damn nub. (or a headbutt, my more favourite method of rejection)
“I can write OBAMA IS A FAKE here at No Quarter and feel that I can elaborate on my concerns. Do that elsewhere and see what you get. I bet, I could even take Clinton to task for several things, so long as they are substantive, and not be run off.”
You bet you can. IN FACT, Larry makes it a policy to permit others to post on behalf of their candidates. If we had a writer here who wished to write about Obama — we extended MANY offers — we’d allow it. And Larry’s friend Wayne Williams posted here about John Edwards, as did I because I respect him and think he’s up for the job.
[I think one thing those censoring boobs at DKos totally missed was that Larry has written numerous articles about his concerns about Obama's Kenyan connections and actions during the recent terrible turmoil there -- if they'd bothered to look at the history of his writings, some of which were also put up at DailyKos -- they'd know he wasn't writing racist stuff. Dear god. (OR at least that's what I'm guessing they think is racist, etc., since they never BOTHERED to point out specific instances.]
Susan,
Glad youare here - but concerned that mind is ruling body and body needs to heal!
Those of us who know you and Larry know the current epitaths of Racism and Sexism absolutely DO NOT apply.
These guys are behaving just the the Wing Nuts they spent years mccking. Just goes to prove not ALL members of the political left are SANE!
I trust Larry more than I would trust anyone else on foreign affairs or intelligence matters.
And I have been reading you for years, and completely trust what you always so superbly document in each and every post.
Hope this post goes through. I have been having trouble the last few days. Don’t know if it is my new computer, or if the site is expereincing troubles again.
“These guys are behaving just the the Wing Nuts they spent years mccking. Just goes to prove not ALL members of the political left are SANE!”
Exactly. And not all on the right are insane. I happen to think Newt Gingrich is a first rate thinker. Where we part company is his right of center solutions to problems and issues. But it is always interesting and mind expanding to listen to him. Same with Karl Rove, who knows so much. I just hare his ‘evil’ side.
And I agree. Larry and Susan are trust worthy, as is this site.
but susan, only months ago you were singing the praises of “Kos” as I pleaded with you to get more serious sources of information for presentation here. Now, at last, you can see that, yes, “Daily Kos” is a web site for vacuous idiots and lonelihearts who wish to volunteer to make Moulitsas wealthy and happy.
The issues with “Kos” go much deeper than one person being stupidly ostracized for not supporting this- or that- comment. The Animal Farm effect has been in play at “Kos” for some time.
It is also in play here. Anyone who is opposed to the Hillary candidacy will be ostracized - THOUGH NOT CENSORED, to this site’s credit.
I encourage you to consider that. You don’t want No Quarter to be like “Daily Kos”, do you?
I was banned from posting comments and rating as well, and was warned that discussing Rezko is a “rightwing talking point”. Never mind that my posts were almost uniformly informed, accurate and polite. The obamapods TR’d me over and over again, and when they got frustrated that auto-ban wasn’t kicking in, they went whining to Hunter (or so I understand) and I lost my ability to post. I don’t get that. DHinMi described me as one of the worst posters. I responded that I wanted to see if we could have a meeting of the minds and posited that, to my mind at least (aye, there’s the rub), the worst kind of posters would be people who post hit diaries, and a couple of other things - I can’t remember what. I just went to look the comment up and it’s apparently been TR’d though there was nothing offensive in there. Maybe I just missed it, but if not, I have no doubt that DH would have wanted it disappeared. It certainly put him in an unattractive light.
Well, fuck ‘em, You’re right. You’ve certainly your value to the reality based community.
Hi Lorelynn!
I was wondering where you went. I am also taking a loooon break from DK. I haven’t been banned, but I wrote a GBCW diary that got some pretty nasty comments. Isn’t it great to feel the love from Kossacks, lost in “the wonder of O”?
when the Labour party got rid of clause 4 the purge was similar. At least there are no billy clubs in cyberia.
DKos, has been a turf war for about a year. Maybe some people noticed it or they didn’t but Edwards’s peeps and Obama’s peeps were fighing to own to the site for months.
Edwards people lost. I don’t know if we’d have behaved any better if Iowa had broken our way and Obama had tanked.
A little gang over there gained a great deal of experience in the Israel/Palestine/Iran Diaries over three years in getting rid of anti-Iraeli opinion (probably justified to some extent to make sure Dkos didn’t become asscoiated with anti semitism) and their troll baiting/rating techniques carried over into the candidate wars primarily to the benefit of Obama.
That’s roughly how it went over the years.
Btw on another topic Larry, if you are reading this, do you know Phil Sabin, Dandeker and Lawrence Freedman? They are my old prof at King’s College. They are producing some interesting work these days on Iraq…
I started off as an Edwards supporter and switched to Clinton. I never saw the kind of gang thuggery going on with Edwards, Clinton, or Dodd or even Kucinich.
What’s happening with the Obama campaign is unique and unlike anything I’ve seen in progressive politics for a long, long time. He’s an ugly human being who is bringing out the worst in others. Check out some of the emails Taylor Marsh is getting.
Lorilynn — Damn right no other candidate has done what Obama has. He has split the Democrats but he is not concerned because he wants to be the boss of this country. Anyone who fires up the people must have an agenda to turn the people against each other. History tells us this has happened time and time again. I pray sanity returns and we end up with a sane boring leader who fixes whats broken and doesn’t break what isn’t.
in 2003 i had a disagreement with markos about several comments he made regarding the peace movement. i was immediately pounced upon by his front page darlings and other wannabes … i was informed, in so many words, that questioning kos was not kosher. a couple years later, i forgot my place again, and i openly told the community that kos’ endorsement of a political strategy regarding the supreme court was wrong headed. once again, it was pointed out that i needed not to question my betters or anyone of his sycopants. i have submitted several diaries over the years never to have any published … i was relegated to “lurker” status but i could at least make comments.
well that status suddenly changed around six months ago … i was troll rated when i made several comments questioning obama’s progressive beliefs. it got so silly, i would make a comment and 20-30 people would jump on me and then blame me for hijacking the thread. LOL … blaming the victim of the brown shirted thought police. Larry, i sincerely agree with your thoughts on dkos and the animals who are now in charge … a damn shame … but then again “group think” can not tolerate real debate.
The sounds of the animals
Animal Farm segment 1
Animal Farm segment 2
Animal Farm segment 3
Animal Farm segment 4
Animal Farm segment 5
Animal Farm segment 6
all music mixed live to the reading.
You have done what every
Red-BloodedBlue Blooded American has wanted to do with this little Napoleanic twerp.He says that his blog is not about issues but about getting people elected. It doesn’t seem that he’s done such a good job if you look at his campaign against Joe Leiberman or his support of John Edwards.
I would love to find a way of troll rating this twerp.
The best way to troll rate kos is to avoid his site. It’s a business, so losing visitors will hit him where he lives. If you have to go, use Firefox with the Adblock plugin, which will prevent your visit from adding to his revenue.
Well lets be honest. The liberal blogosphere has always exaggerated its importance. Sure it can raise money, but it doesn’t represent or even understand the rank and file democrat.
No you are wrong. Obama’ success is built on his successes on the net. No doubt about it.
Don’t worry - The corporate National Media will be doing it in spades and starting the beginning of March I posit.
The dkos crowd is in serious need of a professional deprogrammer. Their behavior reminds me of the way cult members react to opposition by trying to silence the offender. Anyone who doesn’t parrot their talking points is suddenly labeled (”troll”) and quickly banished so that true believers don’t have to read things that challenge their beliefs. When forcing people off the site no longer satisfies them because they know “heresy” is still being spread elsewhere, they feel compelled to pursue their adversaries from site to site in order to harass them. It’s not enough to shut you up at dkos; they have to come here and try to make you toe the line, too. Speech that “harms” the object of their veneration has to be stopped and, if possible, punished.
It’s amazing to see how savagely the Obamatons turn on anyone perceived to threaten their idol. Not too long ago, they were quite happy to read Larry’s posts and recommend them. A few posts questioning the Chosen One’s bona fides and he’s persona non grata among Kossacks. Paul Krugman has suffered the same treatment, after years of being lionized by the allegedly progressive blogosphere. At the same time, they are quite eager to offer absolution to former adversaries like Andrew Sullivan, Maureen Dowd and various rightwingers who have heaped praise upon Obama.
This is an extremely familiar pattern of behavior for zealous followers of charismatic (cult) leaders. The fact that so many of them are avowed atheists who disdain this sort of nonsense from religious fanatics would be funny if it weren’t so disturbing.
Many others have as well … see Erica Jong’s essay about the terrible reactions, and the treatment she got, after her op-ed in the WaPo last week. It’s in my story about SUPER Women, just below.
It is a symptom of the behavior of cults — they disallow any dissenting opinions, and drive away people who dare question anything.
they disallow any dissenting opinions
Susan,
I haven’t forgotten how you spoke to Leslie when she questioned you on the Rezko charges.
Cee, I’m not sure of what you speak but I will tell you that I have a rule, that I’ve shared with other front-page writers, that we don’t take down each other posts publicly. Beyond that, I will say nothing because any further communications have been between Leslie and me, and I’ve expressed my deep regret to her for any way in which I offended her. (It’s not an excuse, but I also felt like hell all the time around then, but the doctors didn’t know it was a ruptured appendix and abscess … needless to say, I was not at my best at all times during that period (although god knows I tried almost all the time to be respectful, even when my body had sapped almost all my strength and caused me to feel very cross at times).
If you must bring up such matters again, please do by e-mail, not here. It’s not something I think is appropriate to discuss further.
Cee, I can’t get this out of my mind. It’s been personally very painful and I pray things can be repaired. I care a lot about Leslie.
For Real - Any of you who happen to meet any Moonies, or Scientologists and try to question their leaders will be hearing the same crap as the ObamaBots spew.
Can the brown shirts be far behind????
Correction. “Barack shirts” is the 21 century version of the “brown shirts.”
While I agree that Mr. Johnson got treated extremely unfairly I must point out that comments like these do not help support his argument. How is this comment any less like the behavior that has been criticized at KOS? So you are implying that people who support Obama are Nazis? This stinks of hypocrisy. I for one think that having BOTH candidates completely vetted is an important thing. I will support whom ever ends up being the nominee because Mr. 100 years is an unacceptable option.
I’m sorry that Larry had to be subjected to that kind of intolerance but calling someone a Nazi kind of negates the point that Larry was trying to make.
Thanks Larry for giving me an education in regards to the other topics you cover on your site.
Thank you.
Its less like it because you aren’t going to have Larry and Susan storming around deleting your post or troll spamming your message so you go away. If you’re going to get your ass handed to you, it will be in a public way.
If you are simply talking about the tone, I don’t see anyone here acting like a Clinton cult. Point me where I’m wrong there, but I don’t see it. I see specific reasons the folks who intend to support are doing so. Amb. Wilson was very clear. LJ has been very clear. Susan has been very clear, and others…but Obama supporters haven’t done the same thing here. Its been pedestrian hour for the most part.
I’m open to substantive proposals that I should see. Don’t sell me out to my ignorance if you can show me where Obama’s got the right policy. I may not appreciate it now, but I will in the future if you’re right.
I do believe some of the Obama supporters are like the Germans in the 1930s. And it is important that we not see it from the point of Post Holocaust knowledge, but post WWI knowledge.
In the US right now, many people are suffering due to what Amb Wilson referred to as the Rovian echo chamber. They really want Bush and all the legacy to be gone. They are seeking massive change.
This Has Happened Before
When people seek massive change, it hasn’t historically been optimistic that they make the right choice. They usually overcorrect and go to someone who is either worse, or in many cases, not competent, but had a great pitch.
I will not compare Obama to Hitler. That is gross on too many levels. I will say that the United States is in a state of distress. And countries in distress have often made very poor choices for a while.
I’m glad we can explore these concerns at NoQuarter. As a Scot, I refuse to be a Good German.
Xeno, really well said. They’ve also attacked Joe Wilson for supporting Clinton. Some months ago I spent a morning defending a progressive journalist, Pierre Tristam, who posted a diary there, because BarbinMD and the rest of the fascist thugs at the site swarmed Tristam.
Jesus christ. It’s come to this. They’ve become the people they’ve hated. No wonder they call it ‘drinking the kool-aid.’
Funny isn’t it. Like looking in the mirror and seeing George W. Bush supporters.
Right Larry?
Yeah, thanks for proving that you are stalking people Yoshimi, since you are one of the worst fascist thugs at DailyKos. Now here you are, doing exactly what other commenters have said–not content to do your ugly deeds at DKos, you’re following people around the internet to do them.
Whooo - Deep Breath Dude…! :^0
I don’t post at DailyKos, nor do I got there every day… so I am sure your feelings are valid… but KOS had way more info on the recent FISA - Immunity Scam and the Torture legislation than this one did… I come here for security/interntional/former cia perspective…
Deep Breath - write your blog, don’t post it, wait a few hours and see if your still that p*ssed off. That’s about as angry a post as I’ve read in a while.
– Mitchman
Ahem… Here’s a thought. Watch CSPAN.
OK I’m sorry. I wasn’t making fun of you. My point is that that is what Kos et al are doing. They don’t have any inside information. They just don’t have a real job.
True. At one time there were truly insightful, original writings about issues like FISA but most of those people have departed … mostly because, if one writes a serious policy diary, it gets ignored. I’ve been appalled at the diaries by prominent serious scholars that get ignored SIMPLY because it doesn’t give them yet one more place to RANT, which is all they love to do.
Fire Dog Lake, and Glenn Grenwald have done a great job On FISA. Emptywheel parses things that even lawyers miss.
Fuck Em All!
Go get em Larry! I am so damn sick and tired of the lefty thought police. They and their sanctimonious minions that like to pretend they are oh-so much better than the nasty “conservative” thought police. But say something about Hillary Clinton that isn’t negative and you’ll find out just how interested these Obama supporters are in free speech and all the other things they claim to embrace. Right along with a “level” playing field. Drivel! What they want is a playing field slanted their way.
We are all supposed to be nice little round liberal pegs and march quickly to our place in our appointed round holes. (I won’t take the easy way and continue down that road.) If you are a square peg, and don’t fit in and play nice with all the other folks on the bandwagon then they attempt to pound you into shape.
I forgot, in my eternal naiveté that people aren’t much different whether left or right. They all just want to get their way. And if you don’t want to march in their parade or mouth their slogans or perceive the world the way that they do, then you are an abomination.
The left blogosphere has, for the most part, decided that Hillary is an evil witch and anyone that plans to vote for her or support her is an enemy. While mouthing silly slogans like a bunch of teenagers at a High School Pep rally they say one thing and do another. Unity and hope they say. Such rhetoric is just empty words because while they say them they are also denigrating and trying to intimidate anyone that doesn’t see things their way. I don’t allow conservatives and corporate media to shove their ideas and faux heroes down my throat and I sure all hell am not about to let some so-called liberal do it either.
I was amazed at first to find myself the recipient of more vitriol from Obama supporters than I had been from conservative trolls. I though we were supposed to be better than that. Some of us are. Most alas are not!
Speaking of slogans - I looked up the sources.
“Yes We Can” was lifted directly from Governor Deval Patricks grassroot campaign.
“We Are The One We Are Waiting For” comes directly from Alice Walker’s new Book Title. Alice is the author of “The Color Purple” for thoase that did not know.
Read this short brief from Chicago’s ABC news Bullitin in October 2006, and you will find out where the slogans “Hope” and Inspiration” come from:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=websites&id=4679056
Obama is not even capable of producing his own original materials.
Duval Patrick’s campaign was run by David Axelrod. Nice try though.
I get to see and meet with Patrick and/or his people several times a year. Believe me, regardless of who ran his campagn, he is the REAL DEAL! Obama is NOT!
can we get merch (t-shirts, bumper stickers, etc.) made up that says “NO YOU CAN’T.” ?
Great comment — glad to see sanity rules on No Quarter and Taylor Marsh. I just bet big checks have been given to those leftist bloggers who tow the line for Obama. Can’t prove it but money talks and bullshit walks. Just sayin……
Just found this site today…linked from Taylor Marsh’s blog. Always admired Larry and am glad to be here. Have to say I totally agree with kenoshaMarge…I thought maybe my gut feeling about Obama was just plain crazy on my part, afterall, may dad, mom, and sister support him…glad my instincts were not wrong afterall, but I’m really worried come November if Obama is the Democratic nominee.
Seems you are discovering to what many RW bloggers awakened to and left behind that being large blogs or forums are nothing more than arms of the establishment. Kos = Free Republic
I knew that the Obama sites were jumping all over people who dared criticise him but not that they were banning people. Wait until Republicans catch on to that! It will make a great talking point about how the left is anti-democracy (think commie pinkos). Rush et al are already homing in on the Obama cult theme. This will just give him more ammunition. Not that these guys are any better, but when did fairness and accuracy stop them?
. Rush et al are already homing in on the Obama cult theme.
Bernie,
Great. The cult meme that was STARTED BY CLINTON SUPPORTERS or people who claim to support Clinton.
Don’t you see that this isn’t working?
Cee,
Take a step back and think for a moment. Does it really matter who started the cult meme if it is true? Now take a look at the behavior of Obama supporters and tell me if that doesn’t look cult-ish.
Victor,
It does matter. I guess you’re new to NQ. Months ago I stated that I didn’t like these counterproductive tactics, and I reallly didn’t like it that the Clinton camp is doing what was done to them by the Scaife funded Starr Chamber.
You can call people cult members all you want.
It doesn’t make it true and it certainly doesn’t help your candidate.
Uhm? What are you talking about? Scaife had people making up stories about Bill Clinton and reporting them. Starr had subpoenas and tried to force people to lie in order to indict Bill Clinton.
Comparing Hillary’s campaign to those two processes is lunatic.
No Edwards was accused of Cult status months agai. McCarthy and McGovern were accused of cult status.
This always happens to militantly left wing “movement” politics lead by charismatics.
So true Salo. Howard Dean supporters were also accused of being a cult.
I’m actually concerned about the anger coming from a certain group who always assumed that their leader was the “inevitable” one. The lashing out by this group leads me to believe that they are the ones acting like a cult. The anger by Larry and some of the posters over at MyDD is unhinged at best. Just look at the rant in this diary? Does anyone who has a clear head during this election rant like Larry just did?
The “inevitable” crap was started and repeated ad nauseum by the media. I don’t think anyone every thinks their candidate is inevitable.
I supported Howard Dean and we were called little “Deaniacs” with condescending dismissal by the media. Obamamania will get it’s turn at being trashed by the same media that now is loving it.
If you don’t like Larry’s “rants” why do you not go where the atmosphere is more to your liking? As Larry and Susan keep trying to tell you, this is a free speech zone and people that are angry are allowed to express that anger. And there are a lot of us that are damn good and angry at having Obama shoved down our throats.
Are you asking me to leave?
How right-wing blog of you.
come on . . . stay, you have a right to be thought of has an ass . . . . just be interesting . . . Kumb Buy Yah my friend.
having Obama shoved down our throats
kenoshaMarge: I thought that was illegal and not in the Army field manual?
I noticed on the CNN ticker Hillary is being referred to as Hillary Rodham Clinton…
From the perspective of most throats, there has been a lot more Hillary-shoving than Obama-shoving and you have the MSM to thank for that. People react against the media push because it’s not nice to be pushed around and more and more people are waking up to just how much BS really is in the media. If Hillary is a victim of this backlash then that’s her lookout. After all, she is the “experienced” campaigner with the crack team.
I’m not trying to make excuses for KOS and their censorship either, just pointing out that voters are over being taken for granted.
Virtually everything coming from Obama supporters about Hillary is much, much more vituperative, dishonest and vulgar. Obama supporters don’t recognize it because they tend to agree with it.
whether the idea that obama supporters are cultists came from clinton supporters or not is irrelevant. if we are not allowed to call em as we sees em, we become subjects, not citizens. many of the people i love support obama. i send them links to noquarter and other sources. what more can i do? sometimes i get intemperate as larry has done here. wtf? get over it. this campaign is too effing important to just be reasonable.
I’ve been banned from MyDD and censored on Huff for negative comments on Obama.
That’s what concerns me most about this whole thing, I think. Obama and his supporters are reminding me more and more of W and his supporters in 2000.
In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes to others one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them.
ar eyou calling Clintonites cultists?
I am. They have gone off the deep end since she started losing.
I disagree with you. I think many of Hillary’s supporters, including me, kept thinking that the MSM would eventually step up and take a closer look at Obama. I, naively, took him at his word that he would run an above board campaign, and now that I find he hasn’t been, that he misrepresents, twists, lies about Hillary’s policies/records, I’m just floored that the MSM allows him to get away with it but pounces on her every slight misstep or fabricates things to put her in the worst light possible. I was also so naive I had no idea how much the people that hate Hillary, really hate her. So, I was caught off guard. Now, I’m just plain mad–I haven’t “gone off the deep end,” I’d just like equal treatment/consideration for my candidate of choice.
right. in my first job as a psycho-therapist i got a glimpse of the way mental health professionals use defense mechanisms for their own purposes. if you get angry you are immediately asked what your problem is. are you guilty of this behavior yourself? if not, why does it piss you off? this is a very effective way of not dealing with the REAL situation. you’re angry eg because you father beat you in the past, not because you are not allowed to speak your mind now. cee, save the interpretations for the consulting room! this is more important than scoring i’m more insightful than thou points.
Somehow the paragraph explaining the relevance seems to have got deleted or something.
I’ve asked myself who is more qualified to be president and of course it’s Clinton. I’m not going to pretend that she is perfect but I’m sure as hell know Obama is not what he claims to be which is above everyone else in ethics and perfection.
I had a similar experience with dKos when I tried to create a diary entry about homeland security. It was heavily referenced with hyperlinks to articles from credible news organizations (NY Times, Harper’s, etc.). At any rate, they wouldn’t even let me write what I wanted in my own diary there, so I stopped dealing with them, and have gone elsewhere. Within the left, they definitely have an agenda. One of the worst is mcjoan, an apologist for the inept congressional Democrats. They’re still good for some things, and it’s worth looking at from time to time, but if what dKos used to be appeals to you, I’d suggest Eschaton, the Agonist, and Suburban Guerrilla. Also Emptywheel.
Thank you Larry! Kos is a fuckin’ juvenile ungrateful fake. This was overdue. Carry on your good work and let me tell you, you have a lot of fans out there who appreciate what you do.
As per usual, Larry hits it right on the button. Kos believes he is some sort of political guru. Based on his past performances, I have news for him: He ain’t!
Just wait till their man gets his ass handed to him in november. The sliming already started with the gay accusation video on youtube. As soon as Obama locks up the nomination, drudge will feature the video (along with the flashing red lights) every single day. True freedom of speech, we’re with you Mr. Johnson!
Larry, you sound like a loser.
Life is turning upside down, I tell you!! First Anne Coulter is voting for Hillary. Then Sean Hannity starts asking smart questions from Obama fans and later defends Chelsea, Hillary says she’s getting fairer coverage from FOX news than MSNBC, 97% of the lefty blogs have turned into the right-wing Hillary hate bloggers except they’re wearing Democratic drag, and now it turns out Bill O’Reilly was right about Daily Kos all along!!! Have Martians invaded the planet too?!!!! Because it sure sounds like Invasion of the Body Snatchers!!!
Larry,
Keep up the great work! Give’em Hell!
BJ
Well, I thought it was just me.
I started out as an Edwards supporter, and truth be told, if he announced tomorrow that he had changed his mind and was re-entering the race, I would be thrilled. Even when I was an Edwards supporter, I tried to keep an open mind. Debate and discussion, if done in the right spirit, should hone one’s arguments, sometimes persuade and always inform, and should likewise be a learning experience. I won’t say that every Obama supporter I encountered was of the closed-minded variety – there were and are some who, like me, knew that regardless of how it all turned out, they would be voting for whichever Democrat got the nomination. It was actually possible to engage in sprited discussion and come away not feeling like you wanted to punch something. Hard.
Increasingly, though, there was an ever-growing presence of Obama supporters who wanted to preach the message of hope and unity and change, but when challenged to provide some specifics on policy, when asked about voting records and inconsistencies between campaign rhetoric and reality, would do the ”talk to the hand” thing, and accuse me of being a “Hillary-bot,” or not a real Democrat, or some other nonsense.
This was disheartening, but manageable, until I noticed something else.
The “something else” was a tendency to put up posts designed - consciously or not - to draw the Obama supporters, who were encouraged by the posts that seemed more likely than not to treat whatever the latest criticism of Obama was as bunk – and at the same time manage to get a dig or two or seven in it about HRC. When some of the Obama supporters turned out to be among those who had been regulars, it created the equivalent of having a couple of mean and nasty dogs on the front porch, who would bite through the ankles of anyone “known” to believe in speaking out and speaking up. The dogs were not bright enough to understand that someone with whom they could disagree on presidential politics might share their stance on things like FISA and torture and war, and would continue to deride and bully even on the non-election posts.
Just as blog owners blog as a matter of choice, I visit and comment as a matter of choice, and since I hate the idea that rabid dogs have taken over some of the sites I used to enjoy, I can choose not to go there. If what these blog-owner had in mind was creating a masturbatory echo chamber, success has been achieved, Obama is apparently the “transformative” candidate he claimed to be, and all I can say is that these people don’t like to be interrupted when they are, um, “busy.”
The shame of it all is that so many of these blogs were created as a reaction and pushback to the maintstream media, which was uninterested in the truth, indifferent to getting the facts right, played fast and loose with context and wanted to make the story as opposed to reporting it. Blogs that wanted to check and balance the mainstream have now become everything they hated about it. The things they always claimed set them apart from the right-wing blogs don’t exist anymore either – the comments sections are as nasty, as biased and as hateful – so much for the high ground and credibility. Seems like a high price to pay for the sake of a candidate, and I wouldn’t mind so much except the price is that those blogs that are not taking that route will get tarred with the same brush in the minds of those who only see things one way.
These blogs may be in Animal Farm mode now – Lord of the Flies mode is not far behind.
Sorry for the length!
Terrific. Very eloquent and to the point.
I survived the recent “purges” over there with all my TU stuff intact, but there was a moment in Dec/Jan when most of Edwards vocal and combative supporters were stripped of rec and tip rights. How convenient.
I rarely wrote diaries about the campaign except a bunch of parodies, But I was very active in the comments section defending Edwards and taking pot shots at Clinton and Obama. I spent a great deal of time arguing with the same people that targeted you.
Edwards supporter on there were considered to be a bit of a cult by the admins and a band of Obama suporters. But as it tunred out the actual manipulation was going on at a different level as Kos probably favoured Obama all the time.
It was very clear to me at the time that the summer was a turf war between the Obama camp and Edwards camp and slowly but surely Edwards people were winnowed down and chased off. There were also a variety of old scores and rivalries to settle from I/P flame wars.
It’s very ironic to look back and see Edwards supporters vilified as a cult by that gang.
Salo, I’m BD over at Kos.
I thought the Edwards supporters were highly educated and articulate, but a bit too idealistic for my taste. The Obama supporters have always been obnoxious idiots.
We’ll i’m obnoxious and overly educated myself.
I’m a cynical pessimistic lout as well.
I never really thought, oh it’s all idealism with the Edwards gang.
Obama is the only one i’ve really heard called idealistic in the real world. Mainly by college age 20 somethings.
Edwards was just making a systematic critique of of putocratic capitalism in a Southern Fried Style.
Hey there,
I’ve missed ya’.
Lorelynn
LOL. Spot on.
Another DK refugee who wandered over here from Taylor Marsh. Nice to see you here, Salo.
Kos is a friend, his political ambitions are what they are.
I just find it so difficult for the community on online persons who meticulously detailed the Fitz proceeding vs. Libby, to be so committed in full this head-buried-in-sand-mode for Obama when he’s right on top of someone under the same prosecutor’s aim.
That isn’t even including the kind of candy Rove will throw out soon. I’ve just made some one liners about that and never got adequate comment to dispel that from some of Obama’s most impassioned followers. They just go into denial mode and shut down, continue the narrative of good rhetoric.
There’s a reason the GOP is running a loser platform right now, they’ve co-opted a good portion of the Democratic position. Obama gets in, unless he does some radical personal transformation heretofore unwitnessed in his political career, we’ve won the race but lost the war.
The war for putting a real Democrat in at the time it calls for a real Democrat to fix things.
Krugman has it good for her on health care, a topic that must be addressed. Look at how he’s vilified, after being a person who stood against the war and never abated his position. Few others in media did, Hollywood had a spate of war movies to drum up, several prominent musicians and many brand of the month types had a song to sing, everyone wanted to boost the President’s flight suit persona.
Their time was now!
To try and level the legit criticism Krugman levels is but one length to which the Obama mindset goes. Where was it cultivated, this contempt for competency?
“She’s likable enough.”
America is about to find a new time ahead, one in which we fight a lot of “smart wars” instead of two really dumb ones.
*”To try and dispel the legit criticism that Krugman levels….”
It’s all about erasinng the last 20 years of history.
Obama has deliberatly set out to distort Bill Clinton’s record (which was admittedly a mixed bag) and tie him to Reagan, And all the oponents of the Bush regime over the years, Wilson, Shehan, the owner of this sight, Fitz (you’ll see) are being slowly removed from the political record.
It’s a Damnatio Memoriae. Maybe that’s what needs to happen but it’s starnge seeing it happen.
Our new bestest buddies are Andy Sullivan, Joe Kein, Ariana Huffington, David Brooks etc.
Ummm
This would be the same Obama that caused a shitstorm when he talked about his own admiration for Reagan…
Impressive tactical thinking if that’s what his paln is…
Obama gets in, unless he does some radical personal transformation heretofore unwitnessed in his political career, we’ve won the race but lost the war.
Mr. Murder,
Obama won’t be able to change much. We’ll have another war to deal with.
Nasrallah vows retaliation
Tens of thousands arrive at arch-terrorist Mugniyah’s funeral in Beirut; Hizbullah leader tells masses ’since he was a boy, Imad acted for victory and wanted to become a martyr’; says his group ready for ‘open war’ with
Israel.
The Hizbullah chief said his group was ready for “open war” with Israel if the Jewish state wanted it.
“Zionists, if you want this type of open war then let the whole world hear: let it be an open war,” he said.
I wouldn’t panic too soon, Hezbollah are struggling to remain relevant in Lebanon and the only thing keeping them relevant is the threat of another Israeli invasion. Hezbollah have zero capacity to wage an aggressive war. The worst they can do is minor damage and kill a few civilians.
The IDF have been stung once by over confidence, they are too smart to make the same mistake again and they have no particular reason to turn Hezbollah into national heros once more.
From here, it’s testicle clutching and rude gestures at ten paces.
This is a big item for the reason that, IMO, Sadr bides his time in cementing a wider geographic influence.
He abates the the Shi’ite majority in Iraq to a moderate intensity, gathering connections with brother Iran, while still drawing spiritual comparison to the cause in Lebanon.
He’s right in the middle, ready to be made the hub. Make no doubt he would be gone already if we could have afforded doing so. He’s too powerful to be dealt with in conditions that would make him a martyr.
Israel trying to invoke Syria is nothing new, a way to try and widen the war. The restraint to which Syria has officially shown to this point is impressive.
Thank you bringing this up.
I heard a brief snatch on BBC radio the morning. All I got was something happened in Syria and Nasrallah had declared war on Isreal.
Excellent summary!
Finally someone said it. Good for you. I sick of that little prick.
I am such a mild moderate person it is embarrassing, but the Obama nightmare is pushing me so far to the right that I am starting to worry that I might throw rationality out the window, like the Obama fanatics have, and join the Republicans. I feel like Silver in wondering if life is turning upside down. There is something uncomfortably militant and fanatic, there’s that word again, about Obama’s campaign. The shock is that it is not just blogs like Kos, but the mainstream media that is pitching in.
I joined Kos a few years ago, but the Hilly bashing was already so prevalent then, I quit going there. I can’t imagine what it islike now.
Bill Clinton had the free flowing charisma to naturally draw the party to him, and also keep the public on board and not really shake or stir left wing militancy. Obama has a bit of Charisma but it requires a great deal more hatred and vilification to get him over that hump to win the nomination. It really is Obama’s Orange Army.
Although I intellectually agree with the anti war position, I do not think it is productive to vilify Democrats who decided that Saddam had to go.
Edwards was cut down savagely on Dkos for the IWR vote and now it’s Clinton’s turn.
I found this site after GNB posted “Obama Cult of Personality?” and the Obamatons ganged up on Jesse. They still won’t answer this question: why has all legitimate discourse stopped? Now if that’s what’s meant by ‘change’ and ‘hope’ I want no part of it. Frankly, I love Larry’s anger. We should all be this angry as this has been one of the most subliminally negative campaigns on record. And yes it’s an “Invasion” as in “Body Snatchers.” I’ve gone from calling Obama “Saint Maybe” (trying to give him the benefit of the doubt) to “Saint NO WAY!” And he can thank his supporters for that. I agree with the above comment: If you put your hand on my ballot you’ll draw back a nub.”
Larry,
You don’t know that you aren’t being played by people who want to split the Democrats.
I suspect that several new people who are posting here are rightwing flame throwers.
Being played? You have got to be joking. I did not ban me from Kos. They did. They wanted a show trial, ie., acknowledge that I am a racist who said hateful things about Obama.
Well, as I wrote above, they can go fuck themselves. I am not confessing to something I am not. It is that simple. Read thru the comments above. I’m not the only one who has met the wrath of the Kossacks.
That aside, what if Obama wins? You’ll need to accomodate Obama if he’s going to be the nominee.
What you fell victim to has been going on for months there, but Edwards people were the victims of the hounding. You may not have noticed it because it wasn’t directed at yourself but the particular individuals who went after you have been at it for years on Dkos.
Larry,
So Markos sent the email? That wasn’t clear.
My point is that we better be wary of the divide and conquer tactics on Kos and HERE.
what are you talking about?
Obama’s followers idea of unity is to crush disent.
Cee,
I truly respect you.
However, after a great deal of Angst and on going research, I CAN NOT and WILL NOT vote for Obama, even if he is the nominee.
The facts themselves were chilling. If anyone has divided the party it is Obama, and his rabid followers.
I generally take a looong time to come to such firm conslusions, but the bile and vitriol from the Obama people is no longer even tolerable. It has become like the “Invasion of the Body Snatchers”.
The final blow for me came when I was talking to someone in my aunt’s US Congressman’s office regarding some notices she received about her Medicare. After that we started just chatting and after some general chit chat and revelations about Obama, he said “I would not even buy a used car from him” How he ever became a Senator is beyond me”.
Nellie,
I truly respect you.
I feel the same about you.
However, after a great deal of Angst and on going research, I CAN NOT and WILL NOT vote for Obama, even if he is the nominee.
And I can’t vote for Hillary because she is as hawkish if not more than McCain.
The facts themselves were chilling. If anyone has divided the party it is Obama, and his rabid followers.
I know what came from the Clinton campaign..cult nonsense and such.
What makes you so sure that this venom on the BLOGS was started by and coming from Clinton OR Obama supporters?
I’m starting to believe that the right is causing this.
Those fuckers are eating popcorn and watching us eat each other.
I generally take a looong time to come to such firm conslusions, but the bile and vitriol from the Obama people is no longer even tolerable. It has become like the “Invasion of the Body Snatchers”.
See above.
The final blow for me came when I was talking to someone in my aunt’s US Congressman’s office regarding some notices she received about her Medicare. After that we started just chatting and after some general chit chat and revelations about Obama, he said “I would not even buy a used car from him” How he ever became a Senator is beyond me”.
Someone (Susan) pointed out that he had a an easy race against Keyes. That rings true.
The final two straws for me were when Hillary stated during a debate that she supported the war crime of bombing Syria. She hasn’t learning her fucking lesson from Iraq!!
The last one (the silly one) was when I woke up one morning to hear the gasbags talking about Monica. No more.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
It is pointless to fight about it.
Great stuff Larry. I’ve been off the radar due to new NDA requirements but goddamn if this didn’t remind me of the exchange I had over at FDL re: the moveon petraeus ad several months back. I had a nice little debate going with Jane but it was damn near impossible to wade through the fanboy groupthink.
Worst is when the site enables this rather than recognizing it for what it is..
Twerp.. exactly.
Well, I was one of the original posters on Kos going back to 2002. When I started paying attention to the race for the nomination and started posting again last fall I noticed that the site had been hijacked by Obama apologists. I was called numerous names just because I criticized Obama’s health care plan. His followers have absolutely creeped me out.
Power begets duplicity: Kos and Josh Marshall now have mini-empires to defend, and TV appearances to make.
They have to watch what they say or they won’t be Kool People.
They’re the eaters of cocktail weenies they once despised.
DK was one of the places where the “No war for Oil” began. Did you notice the big Chevron ad in his site? What does that tell you?
lol. Antiwar sentiment is so simplistic at time.
Here’s a link to a preview of what Hillary Clinton is up against in Wisconsin.
http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/272314
To me, the picture in the upper right of an Obama supporter is the epitome of the voting cadre that is putting Obama in the White House by over running the caucuses and getting voters out in the primaries. It is nightmarish. Do all the mainstream media talking heads supporting Obama just want to be young?
Very scary! Lock your doors. Cute girls in headbands are coming with pitchforks.
vee -
I thought the same thing myself when I saw a list of aging celebrities supporting Barack Hussein Obama. Sharon Stone? They can have her!
Way to go Larry! Our progressive blogs have begun to sound like right wing radio. I can’t believe the vitriole & irrationality of the comments in the Clinton v Obama camps. Perhaps I’m jaded, but I don’t buy into the cult of Obama supporters and don’t feel the need to debate their hopes & dreams. Starry eyed adoration is not the kind of support any candidate should be campaigning for, I’m not buying into the hype of what sounds more like a 70’s David Cassidy fan club.
Right wing radio? Have you listened to Air Obama lately? Or Stephanie Miller for a year? I stopped listening to Miller a long time ago and Air America is now just ALL OBAMA ALL THE TIME!
Gives another spin to the Che Guevara flap in Texas, eh?
Christopher Hitchens ought to board the Obama train any day now.
Mark,
Maybe she’s native American!! You folks are starting to kill me. LOL!
EXCUSE THE FUCK ME. I’m a Sault Ste. Marie Chippewa Tribal Member. You care to retract that unnecessary slur and mockery of Native Americans?
What a piece of work, you need to grow the hell up and get over yourself. Try keeping it to the issues and stop needlessly riling up people like me who care about all the people in this country.
Shez,
Are you a tolerant Clinton supporter?
Get over yourself. Native Americans DO wear headbands!
Btw, I’m of some Choctaw ancestry and I’ll say what the fuck I want!
Look, if you want to spread Obama Muslim rumors and call a promissing Democratic candiate a “black Jesus,” and then call his supporters cultists then you need to understand that you will get troll rated over there. What we need less of in the Democratic blogosphere is less hyperbole.
If you have a criticism with Obama’s policies, fine stick to that but calling fellow Democrats names is just plain stupid and does little for the party. Do you not understand that as a Clinton supporter, you make her look bad by writing such diaries?
Thanks for not banning me.
that’s the beauty of this site, you won’t be banned. Do you think kos or any other Obama site would run Mr. Johnson’s article? btw what’s with ‘yeah, that is right”?
what we need less of, is less of the hyperbole.
lol.
Hi Salo!
hello, Icame to see what all the fuss about Johnson was about. How are things?
Quick! Hide the hyperbole!
I don’t know if this applies to you, and I wouldn’t dare to assume it does, but for other Obama supporters I’ve seen on most every other blog I’ve visited, and, remember, you brought it up:
“If you have a criticism with Hillary’s policies, fine stick to that but calling fellow Democrats names is just plain stupid and does little for the party. Do you not understand that as an Obama supporter, you make him look bad by writing such diaries?”
Thank you.
On other sites, I hear blog managers say, “don’t say anything mean about KOS, he’s a friend of mine”.
I’m glad you see the little money-grubbing weasel for what he really is.
While I may not agree with what is posted here at times this community never engages in indiscriminate demagoguery and hate.
What is most disturbing about Markos is the use reckless and insnensitive use of symbols of hate such as white robes and swatstikas. You never see that kind of trash posted here.
Here’s an example of how bad it’s gotten: Go Ahead, Vote Like a 12-Year-Old. And it’s not sarcastic. It’s a pro-Obama diary.
That is so messed up.
One thing to remember about KOS. KOS was (and I’m thinking he always will be) a Republican. And that is a pattern with many of the major bloggers that support Obama (Huffington, KOS, Aravosis, all Republican “converts”). Now the reality comes out. In addition, they were ALL Republicans when the Clintons took power. They hated being defeated by the Clintons and they don’t want to let it happen again.
I think that once you’re a Republican, you don’t really convert. You only think you do.
Larry was a Republican. Just ask him.
Well then I honestly wonder about him too.
He just hasn’t gotten there yet, I suppose.
Kos was a Republican too. Still is, really.
So was I but I got over it way back in the ’80s.
Yoshimi -
Like Obama was raised as a Muslim? Who cares?
Arianna Huffington was not just a Republican…she was a far right conservative whose husband’s bid for congress failed. After divorce and huge settlement from super rich husband, she decided she wanted a taste of the political power she craved.
Fast forward to the Green Party where she became the
maven and slogged Nader and trashed Gore every second she could get air time. She kept telling us a vote for Gore was a vote for Bush. She has taken the opposite of the most progressive and tested Democrats.
She then ran for Governor as one of the 500 people running against Arnold.
Then with her bucks and rich backers she got HuffPo off the ground and her Hillary Hate continued unrelentingly. Arianna wants to be important in the White House in some capacity.
Of course, she’s still a reactionary and cannot change her ugly tactics, and still operates with venom.
I stay away from HuffPo and lots of fair minded people will do the same. She’s a fraud.
While the facts about Huffington may be spot on, sounds right….this comment:
“She kept telling us a vote for Gore was a vote for Bush”
I can’t call you out as a hypocrite, but the Gore campaign followers were repeatedly, and still to this day, attacking Nader as:
“A Vote for Nader is a Vote for Bush”
Its bullshit to call out Huffington on something the Gore camp was doing to Nader.
I didn’t support Nader because of Huffington, I supported Nader because I met with him, he addressed my concerns about corporate control over local, state, and federal government orders.
I grew up watching Nader’s Raiders show and to this day still apply what I learned when dealing with fraudulent company promotions, promises, or faulty goods.
To the main point: Once a Republican, always a Republican, that isn’t probably met by facts, but individual cases you know. I know many people who have voted for both parties and at one time were Republican and now in Obama’s camp. Some are in Hillary’s camp, some in limbo because neither represents them, GOP or DEMS.
How about we focus on what we want, individually, instead of being so damn focused on “you guys”, “you people”, and the other constellation drawing methods that prevent us from dealing with the individuals here?
I really don’t like reading people saying “You people are all…” unless it is evident that “all” the people have agreed they are together. I see lots of differences in the views here of people who support either candidate, and a few zealots on both sides.
Each view is your own.
I don’t listen to Huffington because I can’t understand her. She runs her trap all day and still can’t lose the accent enough to be intelligible.
Not only was Larry Johnson a Republican, he voted for George W. Bush.
chumley -
With that kind of thinking Obama is still a Muslim…
Give’em Hell Harry!!
It’s wasted ire, though. Liberals, especially the True Believers, have always been a royal pain in the ass when orthodoxy is threatened.
I propose a route less laden with angst which taps into the zeitgeist of the Kosemites and use it as a sort of jujitsu against them.
For instance French POW’s, post Dien Bien Phu, mindfucked the Vietnamese by giving awards to the best self-examination of the day.
Start with, say, rating posts as worth one or two recipes, similar to star ratings for movies, restaurants and hotels. Awarding pigs or bleeding hearts are other promising alternatives.
Daily Delusion is a wasteland. It is a shadow of the wonderful thing it once was. It is an irrelevancy.
I post often at another blog that follows the same kind of approach as here. Open debate, free flowing.
It really makes you learn to hammer out arguments, something Obama trains his own caucus people not to do.
The result is falling back on the goon squad motif.
The main tactic there of late from the Obama supporters is to name steal and make an offensive remark not relevant to the topic, or attach a slur to a legit criticism to try and nullify the point you were making.
Changes the topic, makes him a victim, and distracts from the point.
Case in point was the fact he changed wording of a bill he sponsored for the purpose of allowing regulatory opt-outs for voluntary compliance by water poisoner Exelon.
Obama senior staffer Axelrod, and Exelon, nuclear polluter. The position changed for a reason. Make Obama supporters answer why so. They’ll resort to anything but a challenge of their own candidate’s hypocrisy.
Mr. Murder,
There are plenty of hypocrits. I’n just supporting the one who doesn’t the bad experiences and baggage.
Clinton has received $68,650 in 34 contributions from NRG Energy, and the company’s chief executive, David Crane, is listed as one of her Hillraisers — meaning he has brought more than $100,000 in contributions into the campaign. The Clintons’ ties to the New Jersey-based power giant run deeper than that, though. The company committed $5 million to the Clinton Global Initiative in 2007, according to the web site of the charity run by former president Bill Clinton. The company’s six-year commitment is $175 million.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/18/for_both_clinton_and_obama_nuc.html?hpid=topnews
————————————————-
The Obama campaign said in written responses to questions that Mr. Obama “never discussed this issue or this bill” with Mr. Axelrod. The campaign acknowledged that Exelon executives had met with Mr. Obama’s staff about the bill, as had concerned residents, environmentalists and regulators. It said the revisions resulted not from any influence by Exelon, but as a necessary response to a legislative roadblock put up by Republicans, who controlled the Senate at the time.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
Since Kos became a Hillary-hate site I have been visiting it less and less. As a Hillary supporter it is nice to discover sites like this where she can receive a fair shake.
It has always been a Hillary “hate” site. The site gained popularity around the run up to the Iraq war and unfortunately Clinton fell on the wrong side. There are plenty of pro Iraq invasion sites out there if you are looking.
Alvord,
This site has become pro-Hillary and I haven’t stopped coming here.
I don’t understand people who give up the fight. Can you explain this?
Excuse me Cee, I don’t understand. By giving up the fight do you mean that you think you can “convert” some of us Hillary heathens?
That may work for some of the weak minded and those who are persuadable but doubtful that those of us who have made up our own damn minds are about to have them changed because someone on a blog touts another candidate.
I, personally was underwhelmed by Obama from start and was actually an Edwards supporter. When Edwards dropped out I went to my next choice which was Hillary Clinton. I don’t need you or anyone else for that matter to argue with me and try and change my mind. It doesn’t make me want to change my mind, it just makes me mad. And I suspect that a great deal of the anger on this blog is from people who are tired of having the media, left blogostan, and anyone else trying to shove Obama down their throat. Human nature being what it is, it’s just making people dig their heels in and get really pissed off. And it’s a very short step from there to deciding not to vote for the Democratic candidate in the General Election if it is Obama.
I suspect that kos, Huffington, TPM, BuzzFlash et al that have been rah-rahing for Obama and bashing Hillary Clinton believe that once the nominee is chosen all the little liberals will come back home and play nice. Maybe they’re right. But I doubt it.
Excuse me Cee, I don’t understand. By giving up the fight do you mean that you think you can “convert” some of us Hillary heathens?
Marsh,
Of course not. Heathens? LOL!
Now that this has become an Obama hate site, a lot of the regular commenters are disappearing.
I don’t see this as a Obama “hate” site. I believe there are some who hate his new gaggle, but I can’t assume they hate Obama. Criticism being written off as “hate” really bugs me. Shirin isn’t a hater, so I take your comments as real concern. I hear you.
If others hate Obama, thats them. I don’t hate him at all. He hasn’t earned my trust, has conflicting messages, and I will continue to have no trust until its earned. But that isn’t “hate” and I hope people can discern the difference.
It just really makes more sense to not go there at all. Just leave the site alone. Let them wallow in the sucking sound of their own vaccuum.
For me, anything they write is completely colored by their bias. They don’t write truth, they write bias. Therefore, none of their articles are in the least bit informational. Go to MSM if you want good information, don’t go to KOS. Go ANYWHERE but KOS.
Or Huffington, or BuzzFlash, or TPM (except the Horse’s Mouth). They don’t care if you agree with them of not so long as you show up and click on their blog.
It’s like watching FOX or MSNBC and then complaining about what you see. The ratings only show the number of people that watch not whether you liked what you saw or not. When ratings go down, people pay attention.
When people stop listening to Air Obama, things might change.
When all the blogs that are all Obama all the time have far less readers, they may listen. Or they may dig in their heels and do what they think best. Either way, I vote with my feet (figuratively speaking).
You can find the information you need online without watching, listening or clicking on places that you don’t like or don’t agree with.
This site really is no different. Neither is MyDD. Each blogger has his candidate and each tends to create a fortress of message control.
I disagree. Yes, many blogs are pro-candidate, but KOS is MILITANT pro-Obama. It also incorporates features that allow the gang/mob to ban anyone that disagrees.
It’s more like a militant authoritarian regime than a “liberal blog”. Their behavior isn’t the least bit liberal.
“inflammatory and insulting language” is now not allowed on dKos.
or, to be precise, inflammatory and insulting language not directed at Hillary is now not allowed. obamazoids are still free to attack her using the most vile and misogynist language imaginable.
it’s the old double standard.
Good for you, Larry. Fuck Kos. I abandoned that pigpen about a month ago and never looked back. like one blogger said on TM–they’re not out to beat her in the race–they’re out to dismantle her very being it seems.
And why doesn’t the little twerp challenge the smears lobbed day in and day out at Hillary or the Clintons. Thank you for saying it, Larry. Fuck every one of them until they learn to play nice and retain their decency and professionalism. The time has come to call them out and call them out loud and hard.
lol,
All your Candidates are belong to suck.
Who can argue with eloquence like that?
I’m glad there are no thought police here, otherwise I’d be looking for bail money.
Larry say what you want ,Daily Kos is JUST a blog ( nothing more). Life is too short to care about them or you’ll just be mad all the time. There are thousands of blogs left and right that make my blood boil and I’ve tried to get into it with them by debating them and they eventually devolve into calling me a liberal commie/pussy/troll whatever and yell all over me, leaving me pissed all the time.. so, I just cut the cord. Fuck em!!! you can’t change people’s mind that don’t want it changed. I know it must supremely frustrating to you but never let the animals on the farm get to you.
I read kos daily from its inception. Last month, the Andrew Sullivan-style of sniping at Hillary became too much and I started to drift away.
I recently checked out your diary there on Susan’s reccomendation and was appalled! These intelligent assholes post recipies to stifle free speech.
What, they just discovered that great new book, “Mein Kampf” and added it as their bible? What the hell is going on with kos?
I see the end of him, TPM, and certainly the huffy Huffington herself in the very near future.
Suppose Obama goes down in a flash of swift boating and smoke? Suppose “we” nominate him and he gets his ass creamed by McCain? Who will believe these bloggers anymore? What credibility will they ever have again?
Couple a presidential loss with a call against net neutrality (something very possible when the mainstream Hillary voters are prevented from speaking) and you will have MSNBC & Fox on the net full time the same exact way they have usurped and stolen the public airwaves.
Kos is no Democrat. Kos is a libertarian Reaganite, who biggest concern is being on the hottest new political bandwagon. He is a rudderless toad, with no real love for liberal government or helping the people of this country.
He is all about his own power, as evidenced by his sudden love for the corporate media that gave us Bush.
He is also a misogynist piggie.
Hey Larry,
If you are so proud of your post yesterday on Kos, why don’t you post it here so people can see what got you “banned”. By the way if you checked to little box in the message that the admin at kos sent you, you would not be “banned” from kos. Stop lying to your readers by playing the victim of some sort of gang of thoght police on kos. You wrote some seriously bad things and you received a WARNING, you were not banned. Go ahead and the post your words of wisdom that you dropped on kos yesterday.
Moron. It was posted here first. Typical illiterate Kossack.
Larry,
I think you should post it here with your pathetic cry baby rant about being “banned” from kos. Name calling is so below you. Especially someone like you who is a decorated former public servant.
I agree with Larry cmpletely about “Kos”. That site is brain dead and has been for years. It’s filled with ninnies who think they are saavy but are just in it for a rant.
When will the hypocrites get it:
“pathetic cry baby”
mixed with:
“Name calling is so below you”
Do you guys really read your own shit?
I don’t care if you name call, you damn moron. Because I’m going to call you what I see you as, a short sighted idiot. So call me a hypocrite when I say, “don’t call names” and then call you one, you hypocrite.
Herschel Greenspan -
Larry already posted it. You’re a day late and a brick short.
It was posted here. I don’t read KOS. I read it here first. Then went to KOS to check what the comments were…get your facts straight.
Larry,
Thanks for posting this and calling Kos out on this crap. For all of us who have lost our posting privileges, this is gratifying - to hear you address it straight on and to hear other people.
Thanks for the post and the thread.
Larry, I just read your “Barack Obama, Establishment Man” for the first time. If I had read it before now I would have jumped all over this right away:
So, Obama’s having Muslim relatives makes him somehow unsuitable to be President of the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, the great melting pot where all are equal in rights and opportunity regardless of race, national origin, religion, or, presumably, the religion of one’s relatives? I have to admit that this DOES stink of of bigotry and Muslim bashing, not to mention that it is antithetical to the supposed principles of this country, and I am very, very disappointed to hear this from you. I also find it personally offensive.
And one WOULD expect him to have Kenyan connections, wouldn’t one, given that his father is from Kenya? now having connections in the “wrong” countries, particularly as an accident of birth, is a problem for you, Larry? That also stinks of a certainly kind of selective xenophobia, and is also quite disappointing.
Except he has intruded as his cousin is Muslim Kenyan on wrong side of fight. Obama has openly supported this horrible regime.
Leader Of The Free World?
Shirin,
This is to the point and I appreciate what you are saying. I believe there are concerns that people have about family ties and what they will do when those family ties get tested. But more important, I believe some are quite familiar with how the right-wing attacks based on those base levels.
This is no excuse for resorting to right-wing style attacks because someone anticipates the attacks. Is this your criticism or concern?
Someone wrote, what if the tie was not Muslim, but Jewish, would it be different. I don’t believe it would be any different. But that isn’t always the premise. If someone is concerned that Israeli policy is too intertwined with US policy, and the candidate is Jewish, then it becomes a concern. Is that anti-semetism automatically? I don’t believe it is, but it sure gets pretty damn close.
I happen to know enough about Arabs, Arabic, and the middle east to make distinctions about people and culture. Studies in the language show me much in the divergence of people. Study of the music has done even more than that. And each history is complicated. I’m not triggered by Arabic to a state of fear or even confusion. I am not at all fluent in Arabic (arab language skills below a 5 yr old). But I can understand enough to know when the interpretation is an exaggeration, misread, or outright fabrication.
Additionally, simply about muslims, same thing, known too many because of my various interests and opportunities to assume a “tie” to muslim, means anything. I am still able to see that to others this is a frightning time related to Islam because they don’t know about Islam, the Islamic world, or the muliple cultures that Islam lives and thrives. Say “chinese muslims” and it might throw people off who don’t know the Uygurs. And of course all Lebanon must be Muslim, right, because its Arab.
I believe the over all concern I hear from the not-Republicans who are talking about Obama is that they believe Middle America can’t make that distinction and this will be a SwiftBoat option. Its already happening. Anne Coulter has been on FoxNews this week and MSNBC saying B Hussain Obama…Mr. Hussain, er Obama.
Keep up your mirror on this issue please. I agree many “progressives” make unthinking bigotted comments about Muslims. It is not good strategic thinking to lump Muslims, Arabs or anyone else together while engaged in dealing with extremist from that part of our world. When you can “they all look like” enemy, too many enemies.
Keep speaking up please.
Senator Obama’s campaign called the “outing” of the photo of Obama in elder garb as a “smear”. If, as you say, what could be wrong if indeed Obama was Muslim? Would it disqualify him? No. But then why did Obama call it a smear? He made being a Muslim to be a bad thing.
Why so much denial?
It is confusing.
i haven’t bothered with that place in years. a far-left crank like me has no use for an echo chamber. i’d rather read stuff that challenges my assumptions a little bit, like here at at pat lang’s place.
just out of curiosity - what the hell did you say that got you accused of “muslim-baiting”? what i fear they don’t realize over there is that they are engendering a new iteration of the old “antisemite” canard that made it, for example, un-PC to question israel or AIPAC…..
oh, and -
lol, All your Candidates are belong to suck.
I CAN HAZ DEAD MEMEZ?
Larry complained that the mainstream media have not publicized that Obama has Muslim relatives. Whatever reason Larry had for finding that important (and there is no context that made it clear to me), certainly it does not fall into the “anti-semite canard” category. Whatever was actually behind that remark, there is certainly some anti-Muslim bigotry somewhere in the chain of thought, if not on Larry’s part, then on someone’s.
You didn’t actually read his article, did you.
Yes, I did. I read the whole thing right before I commented on it.
comprehension’s a bitch, ain’t it.
It could be most important if you took the time to read Chicago Sun Times, etc as it’s out there about Obama’s ties in Kenya, and his behavior. Also Rezko his patron and backer will be coming to trial March 5 and the whole muslim money laundering scheme in Iraq will be at Issue.Rezko is Syrian and his contact kickback/money man is Iraq will be examined.
There’s far worse regarding Obama and Rezko and Exelon Nuclear Power Producers if you took the time to read NY Times and http://www.suntimes.com Obama has quite a backstory and has take [ny times] $227,000.00 fro Exelon lobbyists.
Friend, this is only the beginning. Press has been sitting on it and GOP waits as they do not want to deal with Hillary.
uh, that would be “and at pat lang’s place”
Larry,
We are waiting for you to come clean about what you posted on Kos yesterday.
You can read it right here, Herschel. Larry posted it here a day or so ago.
I have already read the “article” by Larry. My take is that it is the product of someone going thru the first stages of a mental breakdown. Were you proud of what he wrote?
“I have already read the “article” by Larry.”
Then why did you say you were waiting for Larry to “come clean”? The article is right here and anyone who wishes to can read it all and decide for themselves, can’t they?
Because he need to explain shit like this:
What part of it do you not understand? Where their heads are or the smell?
Both appear to be well known to you.
IS there a blog heaven or hell for you? Or are you stuck in some kind of purgatory and confused about the light?
This is the propoganda of the messiah come back to transcendental divinity. Obama saves!
We can find redemption in Obama’s message of purity,hope, and change, and forget every reacist bone in our miserable white bodies.
Obama, transform me!
We will change and transform America together.
Watch the Video…”Obama Transforms America”.
Jesus has returned to offer retribution!
Herschel,
Go on back to KOS. Nobody gives a rat’s ass if you’re stalking Larry.
Go away.
Yeah, I get that. What needs to be explained?
Politics, and it’s adjuncts, can be horribly brutal.
It’s sort of like Bush and Iraq. Just by waging war the way they did, Bush, Cheney, and the rest of that crew told the whole world they understood nothing about modern day warfare, speaking of heads up asses.
Nothing.
The most smug are those who understand the least, always making the grand, futile gesture, say, just not really getting why the US has always conducted foreign policy in the manner it has, Bush, allowing himself to be trolled into a physical war, IMO, becuase he didn’t understand the system, so superior were the neocon Republicans, others took advantage.
Connect the dots.
You’ll find it on the main page of this blog, Herschel. The title is “Barack Obama, Establishment Man”.
Hey Larry,
How does this, from your rant yeaterday, advance your argument:
This sound like something a very troubled teen would write. Are you losing your mind?
Laaary,
Where are you? You must be afraid to back up your shit talking.
Why don’t you go back to that sucking sound vaccuum cleaner you call a blog.
Another well thought out post on the mighty NO QUARTER.
You two are real morons.
HERSCH..
Do you mean Coming “Clean” as in Kosher Clean..??
Does Your name mean “Schmuck”..in German..
Pat,
That was a very well informed comment. Is that the best you can do?
PS
My name does not mean schmuck, but the funny thing is that my schmuck is named Henry. Ironic!
HERSCH…
I don’t care if your Schmuck is named “STUBBY”..
No Quarter is the Big Leagues and you have been laughed out of the mens Locker room..so why don’t you take Henry and go back to KOS where they play “Touch” football..thats where the Real “Wack” jobs are..as you have just proven..
Yet another well informed, substantial comment from a fan of the bush league NO Quarter.
If No Quarter is so “bush league”, by which I guess you mean it is very far beneath you, then why have you rushed over here and spent so much time to spewing all over it and reminding us of how big and important Dail Kos is? Why the need to do that, hmmmmm?
hmmmm . . . a well placed kick to the ‘nards . . .
Larry, I’d consider it an honor to get a message from the fearless leader of the munchkins like that.
I used to think a lot of that place. There is still a great gardening diary on Saturdays by Frankenoid other than that, it’s a real disappointment to see what it has become.
It’s nice to see civil discourse taking place here. There is a pack mentality over there and if you don’t agree, your just going to get torn to shreds.
I’m pretty fed up with that place. So glad I caught your diary yesterday since it brought me here.
Tell it like it is Larry. Thousands of us concur. Kos has fucked himself hard. We’ve come up with a term for these immature sexist et al Boyz that blog clowns: Blozos. The MSM is the: Blozoo. They haven’t quite discerned yet the deep fallout and backlash that a serious major Boyzcott has started, all over the place.
They can’t talk about the future while hanging onto the past because they have no concept of Past/Present/Future happens simultaneously in the NOW. This isn’t 2004 or 2006, this is 2008 and everything has changed, imagine that. I’ve already stated that while they seem skittishly nervous waiting for an earthquake or the earth to move that a volcano blew it’s top, especially with women, and the real men that love us. If someone is a sexist you aren’t a real man. You are a foolish ignorant male though.
The ones coming here saying ohhh calm down everything will be cool, poor widdle buddy Kos, do NOT get it. It’s outright laughable to try to say Larry is the one who is overreacting and didn’t get “banned”, that he has a choice. I’d say Larry did make his only choice, to tell him to get fucked for bringing it up and putting him in that ridiculous position in the first place just because Kos isn’t mature enough to handle anyone. The second prong of attacking Larry that he shouldn’t be angry or show it is equally hilarious coming from the people who have no problem doing it 24/7 themselves. Irony abounds.
That’s just fine. Keep fooling yourselves and making excuses, and coming up short on truth, facts, credibility, and answers. Have fun trying to run for office someday with what we seasoned pros have documented against a whole lot of you. Sexist? Haters? How rich will that be. In the meantime I’m with Larry: Fuck You and Fuck Off Kos, and your pathetic Blozo crew that are transparently a menace to society.
Shez,
If you look at the screenshot, you can clearly see that Larry was warned, not banned. Kos, unlike No Quarter, is a major blog that has to be concerned with the content on the site. When Larry posted his clearly disturbed, offensive diary: the moderator had no choice but to issue a warning. When you have a valuable site like Kos, it needs to be protected. On the other hand, on this site that has a fraction of the hits that Kos has it is OK to post most any bullshit because not many people are reading it.
Love the comedy routine, Herschel…I will grant you that DK is a major blog, and I will grant you that they are concerned about the content on the site, but that concern is subjective. You can be as profane and ugly and offensive as you want, as long as it is directed at someone the powers-that-be have decided is worthy. You can be polite and reasoned and have citations and links from here until next week, and be savaged in the comments – and that’s okay with them. I can pretty much guarantee you that if Larry had written a post about Hillary that ripped her up one side and down the other, it would have been on the rec list forever, gotten a zillion positive comments and had mojo out the ass.
Hey, it’s Markos’ blog and he’s allowed to make the rules and enforce them – even if they make no sense, even if they are not fair, even if it’s just for payback for some real or imagined slight, even if it just makes him feel powerful. Even if it makes him look like an ass – which a lot of people believe it does.
Markos may not mind looking like an ass – maybe that’s a badge of honor for him. Whatever his reasons for going in this direction, allowing the community to become the liberal version of the most wild-eyed right-wing sites, in the end it matters less what it does for his reputation and more for what it does to the credibility of the broader liberal blogging community and those in it who continue to write excellent posts, hold the mainstream media’s feet to the fire and demand accountability from our political leaders.
In my mind, Markos exemplifies the Obama campaign – he says one thing and does another, he claims to want a community while separating out from it the elements which don’t toe the line. He enables the division among liberals for his own gain, and fails to see the long-term consequences of that.
Dengre posted at least a couple diaries where he posited a fictional news story based on an article written by Byron York wherein she would be accused of accepting money for her presidential campaign from the Tam family who owned sweatshops in the Marianas. The trouble with the diary being that it was an entirely fictional charge.
The Tam family gave her $10k for her senatorial campaign when the minimum wage bill which included the Marianas came up for a vote. Hillary took the donation, and promptly voted in opposition to the only legislation that stood to impact the Tams. Did Dengre note this in his diary? No, he did not. In fact, he turned it into a far more dramatic scenario whereby the press hammers her for transfering that money to her presidential war chest. He then claimed that he was only trying to get her to do the right thing, and lead on the issue of the Marianas. The problem there bying that he had already given $250 to Obama, who has taken no more action than Clinton has.
Did Kos have a problem with that even though it was blatantly false and directly right wing talking point? No, he did not. Lying about Hillary is totally acceptable. Telling the truth about Obama is not.
I’m a proud Hillary supporter and just sent her a $100 check the other day.
But I must say, I wish someone would enlighten me as to why she didn’t vote against giving Bush and the telecoms immunity vis a vis the FISA issue. Seems like it’ll be used completely against her by McCain and Co.
Am I missing something?
Sandy,
Well, you’re missing a hundred bucks as Hillary racks in more dough from the telecom industry.
But one question few are asking — is it a coincidence we haven’t heard anything convincing from Hillary Clinton, who took in $87,130 in telecom contributions in the 2006 cycle — more than anyone else currently in the Senate? That makes Jay Rockefeller’s contributions look like abject chicken feed.
Mike McCurry and Jamie Gorelick, who both served in the previous Clinton administration, have been raking in money as telecom lobbyists (Gorelick has been providing “strategic advice” to Verizon about obtaining immunity). And Howard Wolfson — currently a senior advisor to the Clinton campaign — is a partner in Glover Park, who represent Verizon. No doubt they’ll all have some s’plainin to do if Hillary joins Dodd in his filibuster — as Barack Obama and Joe Biden have already said they would do.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/hillary-clinton-a-bundle_b_70052.html
Top 3 in the 2008 cycle (from http://www.opensecrets.org):
1
McCain, John (R)
Pres
$182,200
2
Clinton, Hillary (D)
Pres
$116,500
3
Obama, Barack (D)
Pres
$86,736
Rockefeller was #4, with $49,600.
Not sure you really want to play this game.
Also, I don’t know where you’ve been, but the amendment that would have stripped immunity from the Senate Intelligence Committee’s version of the bill failed to get the simple majority vote it would have needed to pass; the PAA is due to sunset tomorrow.
Anne,
I told Mr. Murder in a prior post that nobody has clean hands.
Let’s play.
Mark Penn Tied To Controversial Nuclear Firm
February 14, 2008 03:46 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/14/mark-penn-tied-to-controv_n_86722.html
Even as Sen. Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign was blasting Sen. Barack Obama for his ties to the Exelon Corporation, Clinton’s chief strategist Mark Penn was earning hundreds of thousands of dollars through his firm from the very same nuclear energy giant.
This past week, Burson Marsteller, Penn’s powerhouse consulting agency, was paid more than $230,000 by Exelon to help renew a nuclear energy license in New Jersey, the Huffington Post has learned. The payment was for work that took place over several months, and Burson is still employed by the company.
“They did some work for us in New Jersey between June and November,” said Craig Nesbit, vice president of communications for Exelon Generation, a subsidiary. “That bill was invoiced on December 12 and it just took that long to pay these things… We still are paying them a little bit but it is ramping down.”
It has been public knowledge that Exelon is a client of Burson. But news of the recent payment comes less than two weeks after the Clinton campaign, and Penn himself, took Obama to task for what they implied was preferential treatment for the company.
On February 3, 2008, the New York Times reported that Obama had backed away from criticism of Exelon following revelation that the company had not disclosed radioactive leaks at one of its nuclear plants. The Illinois Senator, the paper noted, chose to push legislation that offered guidance, rather than mandates, for prompt reporting of leaks. Moreover, the Times added, Obama’s senior adviser David Axelrod worked as a consultant to Exelon, and “since 2003, executives and employees of Exelon, which is based in Illinois, have contributed at least $227,000 to Mr. Obama’s campaigns for the United States Senate and for president.”
Following the article’s publication, the Clinton campaign pressed the notion that Obama had succumbed to pressure from his donors, even though Clinton herself had supported the bill. In a radio ad before the Nevada primary, the campaign used Obama’s Exelon ties to cast doubt about his opposition to Yucca Mountain, a proposed nuclear waste depository. And in a memo to “interested parties,” Penn himself highlighted the Times story, arguing that what Obama says is often contradicted by what journalists find “when they dig into the facts.”
Nine days later, Penn’s firm, Burson Marsteller, received $230,627.05 from Exelon — roughly $3,000 more than the sum of Obama’s campaign donations from Exelon employees — for work deemed “Public Affairs.”
Representatives from Burson confirmed the payment. While Howard Wolfson, a spokesperson for the Clinton campaign, said there were no political ties between Sen. Clinton and the company: “I dont recall Exelon sitting in Senator Clinton’s office watering down legislation designed to protect people from nuclear leaks,” he said.
The information about Penn’s financial links to Exelon was not provided by any political campaign.
Burson, it should be noted, is not technically working for the Clinton campaign. But a subsidiary Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates is, having been paid more than $4.3 million so far. Moreover, Penn is Clinton’s highest-ranking adviser and continues to hold the title of “worldwide CEO of Burson-Marsteller.”
That he would have financial ties to Exelon, watchdog groups say, is of political significance.
Suburban Guerrilla explains Clinton’s not voting.
(can’t make the link button work, arg) …
http://susiemadrak.com/2008/02/12/18/59/clinton-and-the-fisa-vote/
[...] posting it in a Daily Kos diary — where he was excoriated — Larry also posted “Barack Obama, Establishment Man” at MyDD, where it was in [...]
“When you have a valuable site like Kos, it needs to be protected.”
BWAHAHAHA the funniest thing I’ve seen yet today. Valuable? To who? You? Excuse me if I beg to differ on that pure nonsense. Thanks for that tripe to laugh at for the rest of all time.
People like you and Kos are going to be so disappointed when reality checks in. We noticed the Sell By date has expired a long time ago. That’s what happens to liars, we don’t trust you. It’s a reeking embarrassment to the Democratic Party and left blogistan. The real truthtellers fighting in the trenches over there are being cheered on by us adults, but then they are real Democrats that do understand the history of and our Party principles. Trying to destroy Hillary and Bill Clinton isn’t going to sit well or be looked on kindly in the history books. You can bank on that.
You render yourselves more irrelevant by the day, but haven’t seen the cluebat coming. And lessen if not negated and forfeited your own “access” chances to a Hillary administration. Or to the blogs and new re-aligned communities that are growing swiftly out of this election year that are actually respected, unlike DailyKos that is hard to find anyone liking it unless you are a fellow Blozo. Get over yourselves.
There’s many perspectives out here, and we get to decide what we think is valuable and needs to be protected. First priority is America, then the world, not some damn foolish blog with an overblown and overbearing ego. How’s that false sense of security and importance working out for you?
How in the world do you think anyone will ever take any of you seriously when you’re going to end up having to do a whole lot of ’splainin someday why you ended up just like the 25% W Bush brainwashed backwash on the wrong side of reality and decency? People are falling off their chairs chortling over what we can clearly see happening to the idealists that *think* they are all that and a snickers bar.
Kos is not just valuable to me, it gets way more traffic than this bush league site. That is a fact, not an opinion. We Obama supporters like facts more than opinions. Here is a fact for you. Go to alexa.com and look up the statistics. Based on web traffic, world wide, Kos is ranked #4,673 of all websites, Noquarterusa.net is ranked #556,355. In the USA, Kos is ranked #643 and Noquarterusa is #148,498. When you have a site with major traffic like Kos, quality matters. When you have a bitter little site like this one you can post just about any bullshit, hare brained ideas and no one really cares. I am not too concerned with “access” to the Clinton or the Obama administrations. I care about a Democratic Party candidate winning the election in November.
We have never claimed to have more traffic than Kos. But, since you bring up Alexa.com, go check the trend lines. We’re increasing and Kos is declining. Those are facts. But, Herschel being Herschel, he’ll prefer the dark stank of his black hole and insist that the Sun revolves around Obama.
Larry,
You are back. Thank you for the kind response. Boy, your trend line is up for web traffic, so we can count on you having as much traffic as Kos in say 2089. From what I have seen of your blog, I must say I am not impressed.
As someone who may be forced to support Obama himself, I really wish you would fuck off. You have to be one of the bigger obsessive morons I’ve encountered online this week. And that’s saying a lot. WHo gives a damn who has a bigger weblog. If you like “Kos” (I think “Kos” has sucked for years now) then by all means just go back there. Go on, Hershel. Fuck Off.
Still with the comedy -
Thanks - that might have given me the biggest laugh since, well, your last comment.
Anne,
I am glad I could help you by making you laugh. Some time the truth hurts, sometimes it is funny. No matter who wins the Dem. nomination, I hope you will be on the right side of history this November.
Obama supporters like Facts such as “Yes We Can!,” “Hope,” “Change,” “there was voter fraud in New Hampshire,” “the Clinton machine cheated in Nevada,” “The Clintons are racist” and “the Superdelegates must stay out of this, unless they want to vote for Barack.”
wtf! lets talk about the obama crowd introducing race in SC with the absurd attack on clintons factual statement about mlk and lbj. lets talk about the incredible mysogyny of tne msm which wouldn’t dare talk about obama’s race as it has talked about hillarys gender. whose dick is bigger only matters in the bedroom.
So, once again, Herschel, if No Quarter is so insignificant compared to you, why are you wasting so much of your precious time here telling us how much bigger, and better, and more important DK is than anyone else, and how much No Quarter is sooooo teeeny (and by the way, there ARE things that matter more than size)?
Why, it almost looks as if you rushed down here to be on the defensive.
PS I shouldn’t have to point out that No Quarter is a very different kind of site than Daily Kos - not just anyone can post a blog here.
Actually the point I was trying to make was that at Kos, a major website, quality is more important than it is at noquarterusa. That is why Kos has a system to control content that is offensive and noquarter does not. Mr. Johnson’s rant yesterday violated community standards and he was warned not banned. He ran away from Kos like a child and posted this F@#k Kos bullshit. He used to be a respected member of the community untill he started posting bizarre rants. Yes noquarter is very different than kos. Here it seems not everyone can post a diary, but anyone can post any comment no matter how lame or offensive. At kos, anyone can post a diary, as Larry did, but if it violates community standards as his did it is deleted. At Kos the community controls the posts and diaries thru the rating system. At noquarter it seems anyone can comment without restriction, but Larry decides who can post a diary. At this site and kos there is not completely free speech.
“at Kos, a major website, quality is more important”
I see. And you obtain that very important quality by allowing anyone and his idiot cousin to post there*?
*As long, of course, as they do not go against your party line, of course!
But it is okay to denegrate Jews and WW II vets by trivilizing Nazism and the swatztika by even thinking about equating that regime and the holocaust with a quote by Antonin Scalia. But of course we all know that according to Heir Markos that people who post anti-Semitic remarks “are regular people.”
To be a “respected member” of Daily Kos you need to fall in line with heir leader. Just like “Animal Farm”
control content
Why the need to violate the 1st amendment?
Freaking central scutinizer.
You have no point Herschel. Go away. Go back to “Kos”, Munchkinland, and do your thing there.
Come on now - playing the numbers game is total bullshit - my wife and I had dinner years ago in Antoine’s in New Orleans, Oysters Rockefeller’s and an amazing steak . . . and a few weeks ago we had Sizzler’s - now there is only ONE Antoine’s and over 345 Sizzler’s, so by your logic Sizzler must have better food.
Ass-munch, KOS was built on the rebel rousing sock’m of open discourse and slowly morphed into what it feared and fought . . . it’s “value” is based on old history and unless it is under constant pressure to change it will become the old queen no one wants to date . . . and don’t give me your “what-the-fuck-do-you-know” shit - been a KOSsack for years, family member is a VERY low 3 digit number who started posting long before the scoop format and long before Marcos was a known quantity . . . you may call yourself “an Obama Supporter” who likes “facts” but ignoring/suppressing the very presentation of same loses me . . .
So how you you value Rush’s opinions with his numbers , market share and millions?
Sorry in advance:
MMMMM Oysters Rockefeller’s .
Shock and Awe Redux, Jess Wonderin isn’t it?
OK, which Kossack thug are you? You sound a bit like Delaware Dem.
Hmmm, let me think for a moment… who can get access and garners real respect from the current administration and the next one, not to mention the blogoverse: Herschel or Larry.. Herschel or Larry?
Herschel who? Oh that nondescript on the take traffic cop?
What an idiot that proves it every time he gets too close to his keyborg. Keep throwing KosCo that anvil asshat. You’re both sinking into the dark abyss. Don’t worry, we have lots more Depth Charges for you, to float you back to the surface like stunned bellyup fish.
That was yet another thought provoking comment from one of the well mannered posters on noquarter.net. By the way, Larry is a has been that never was. Adios!
“Kos” is filled with some of the most obnoxious cretins online. The site is a poster site for an idiotic mob of vacuous dolts who think that they are “political activists” because they take their work hours from their employers and expend them blathering online.
You realize this is the same “quality control” mentality that has reduced the MSM to a role of stenographer for power, right? And that their ‘abundance of caution’ when it comes to asking uncomfortable questions has been key in enabling the lawlessness and constitutional erosion of the past years? The same outrages that KOS grew up railing against, apparently; I’ve never been a reader.
Ironic, don’t you think?
That was yet another thought provoking comment from one of the well mannered posters on noquarter.net. By the way, Larry is a has been that never was. Adios!
How many dimes have you made to day? I heard it is 10 cents a post. You sound like a parking meter who’s time just expired.
Frankly, Teakwood, Herschel sounds like a special ed student….constantly repeating the same little mantra, rocking in his chair as he does so.
Creepy as hell. Just avoid him.
And Obama still sucks, buh bye.
Let’s play a game. When did Herschel’s shift begin after being assigned by the O campaign to disrupt this site? Is he working any other sites on this shift? Who else is assigned to highjack the entire discussion to prevent anyone from criticizing the big O? I recognize a few other names from the big DK thing who must be bored since everyone but the apostles have left and they have fewer and fewer to call down market, bigoted, illiterate, old women that they can curse. Any guesses anyone?
“quality is more important”, “violates community standards”, “He ran away from Kos like a child”
Just what kinda good Hopium you smoking there?
There’s not much objective “quality” to speak of there, you can have that kind of so called “community standards” which is a real stretch to even claim they exist. Like Pat Paulsen said: “I’ve upped my standards, now UP YOURS.”
I’d love to see you and Kos tell Larry to his face in person he’s a child and see how far that gets you thrown on your ass. I’ve got $5 bucks on this one already to see if Herchel or Kos pisses his pants first. Anyone else in?
Shez,
Thank you for the kind reply. I am sad to see that your arguments have fallen to the level of, “my favorite blogger can kick your favorite bloggers ass.” Yes, Johnson came off like a child when his pathetic rant got removed from kos. The proof? This thread.
And all this time I thought that “Adios” meant “goodbye!”
“That was yet another thought provoking comment from one of the well mannered posters on noquarter.net. By the way, Larry is a has been that never was. Adios!”
Check with Larry and Susan, I believe I’ve made one other comment on this blog, ever. Maybe two. Weeks ago. When I’m pissed though I speak up where I’m reading at. I’ve been furious lately. Run! You bet I can be a Bitch, I’m just not a stupid bitch. You’ve never heard of me have you Herchel? Like I care, not that it matters.
Herchel isn’t used to having someone take him back to school or pinching his ear hard without hiding behind Kos’ skirts to “protect” him. My grandson has better manners and more sense than you do. Spending so many years in the military I have more discipline and a controlled rage than you’ll ever see in your lifetime. That’s a huge difference right there between us, you have no self control or proper perspective of the real world.
oohrah,
you sound like my grandmother, which is the ultimate compliment I can give.
Awww…I just came back to see if by chance Larry had put up a “FUCK KOS PART II”. Come on Larry: Encore! That was some good stuff.
I’d been wondering whether the flamewar to make life at Kos unbearable for everyone who wasn’t a member of the Oborg was orchestrated from the inside, or the outside.
Now I know.
It has been clear that the obamamania starts at the top at dkos since they purged the Edwards supporters for unnamed crimes. One day I logged on and found that they were either banned or intimidated into silence by threats from the admins. At the same time the obamatons were openly coordinating efforts to gang troll-rate Edwards supporters in order to auto-ban them. It was a vicious, systematic campaign to rid the site of anyone who doesn’t support the Chosen One. The whole thing is reminiscent of the behavior of the rightwing sites Kossacks are always ridiculing for their intolerance of dissent.
Maybe we ought to call it “Orange State” from now on.
Fish rot from the head.
Mr. Johnson, with all due respect, your emotions are getting in the way of your message. Folks who come here to learn about security issues from someone who did not partake of the koolaid could be taken aback by your outbursts. It does not enhance your credibility. I have read/heard your comments here and at MSNBC over the last couple of years and have been a fan. Lately however, I’ve been glancing at the title shruging my sholders and leaving hoping that your will be calmer next time. You may have legitimate issues with kos, lots of folks do. You may be right, or not. In my view the style of your recent efforts is driving away as many fans as it might attract. Tell me to F k off too, and I will never darken your door again. Or, just think about it.
keepinon,
I will acknowledge that your last comment should cause us to take note. If at least for remembering what our ‘goal’ might be. If the goal is to discuss in order to expand our possibilities, then we will not acheive this by cutting off conversation when disagreement happens alone. If the goal is to ‘unite’ in some common cause, then our cause needs members, and running them off will counter this effort.
But, it seems to me, that the mission of NQ is being accomplished if you have the nerve to be yourself.
Larry there are 2 issues here and you know it:
As balanced as you are [generally], your board may be confused for a Clinton fund raiser right now. And no, I have not seen any attempt to raise funds for Clinton, but I am talking about appreciating everything that Clinton does and despising Obama. Anyone who might feel that this representation is unfair would frankly, in the wider scheme of things, have a good case. By that I mean, focusing on all the bad things that Obama does/says and all the good things that Mrs Clinton does/says is utter misrepresentation. In that way, if Kos are rabid Obama supporters their reaction is quite reasonable.
On the other side, point 2, they are entirely unreasonable. It takes an enormous amount to be deleted or banned on this board, which demonstrates you stand both by and for freedom of speech. Many of my utterances will have readers cringing [largely because they cannot comprehend me], but to my knowledge only one post has been edited and you e-mailed me to apologise, Larry. Now THERE IS INTEGRITY. I cannot fault your tolerance and willingness to debate and I can understand why you are so upset with the Daily Kos.
For if surpression of views becomes the standard, Hitler has won and we are the 4th Reich!
Heil DKos!
Huffington Post should be renamed ObamaPost and DKos should be renamed ObamaKos.
They are hit jobs and overlook obvious flaws and corrupt past of Obama. Obamaites cannot believe and/or tolerate the notion that Mr. inspiration is not pure.
Wait…soon there will be a video from Obama on the meaning of transactional inspiration and transformance. Sold at all Oprah stores. Cost of video will be donated to Obama campaign for a free America. Hail.
“Huffington Post should be renamed ObamaPost and DKos should be renamed ObamaKos.”
If that is the case, then based on content you would need to find a name for this site that describes it as a virulently anti-Obama site even more than a pro-Hillary one.
“no, I have not seen any attempt to raise funds for Clinton”
You might want to look at the top of the page, on the right, third item down.
“I am talking about appreciating everything that Clinton does and despising Obama.”
As a fan of neither Hillary nor Obama, I don’t have a horse in this particular “race”. There is at least 2-3 times as much Obama bashing here as there is Hillary-appreciating, and in some instances, it is bashing. Frankly, the main page of this blog has taken on a rather frantic, desperate appearance. The sad thing is that I, for one, would be far more likely to be persuaded by an honest, civil, rationally reasoned discussion not of how evil Obama is, but of why, on balance, acknowledging both her pluses and minuses, Hillary is the better choice. What is going on here is just a turn off.
Apology Shirin - you are right
No apology needed. We generally only see what we are looking for, plus what we notice accidentally. I noticed the Hillary fund raising thing quite accidentally.
I hear you shirin, shukran.
A lot of us like both Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama - for different reasons. Under other circumstances, I kind of think they’d probably like each other. What’s been hard for some of us in reading your blog is understanding the level of vitreol you’ve poured out recently towards Obama. It’s ratcheted up to a level greater than most of us even muster for the evil ones in the White House. Truth is, we suspect that there’s more to your hostility than meets the eye. I gather you would rather get into a pissing contest with Kos than look at our question, “Why so venomous towards Obama?” It’s your right not to look at that. But it’s not pretty…
Mickey -
Some of us care enough about the U.S. to want the best candidate to win and think that asking slumlords under investigation for mansions is really wrong and amazingly stupid.
I feel strongly that the top guy in the Daley machine has no business in the White House.
Urkle Obama whines that he pressed the wrong button after voting and runs his campaign like a faith-based initiative.
Anybody but Urkle!
Meanwhile, Romney endorses McCain. GOP discipline is resurrected while the DNC rips itself apart.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/14/romney.mccain/index.html
Sometime,
John Lewis and others support Obama.
John Lewis switches superdelegate support to Obama
by: sndeak
Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 22:57:38 PM EST
Is this the start of a trend? NYT has the story.
“In recent days, there is a sense of movement and a sense of spirit,” said Mr. Lewis
His comments came as fresh signs emerged that Mrs. Clinton’s support was beginning to erode from some other African-American lawmakers who also serve as superdelegates. Representative David Scott of Georgia, who was among the first to defect, said he, too, would not go against the will of voters in his district.
The SEIU and UFCW are set to endorse Obama soon as well.
UPDATE - Since Flackattack beat me by 6 minutes, I’ll use this to add new endorsements and other superdelegate switches…
Endorsements
Jim Hightower
Lincoln Chaffee
SD switches to Obama
Christine Samuels - New Jersey
SD switches to uncommitted from Clinton
Sophie Masloff - Pennsylvania
Nancy Larson - Minnesota
apparently john lewis and his staff are unaware that he has switched to obama. sorry, but i can’t find the link.
When is the first annual No Quarter Convention?
If fuckface can have one surely we can.
I live in suuny southern AZ lots of great golfing Larry, Breakfast at 8:30, Some speakers and sessions until noon a lite lunch and then hit the links for 18. Opps forgot the ladies. Shopping or golf lots of wide open spaces, hiking, the Desert museum for all you animal lovers, Tombstone an hours drive away, a run to the border bring your passports. Oh and a way more Democratic friendly town than Phoenix, and yeh McCain is from here but hey we cant be perfect in everything. Also 4 casinos for those of you who like that.
Meanwhile back to golf….We have a lot of great courses including the one just built at Dove Mountain where the Accenture Match Play is played every year. (Saw Tiger lose there last year)Lots of sunshine, good shopping and friendly ppl, not as big as Phoenix.
So come on out!!
Don’t like shopping much, zero interest in golf. Give me a good horse and lots of time and space, though, and I’ll be there.
Coming right up plenty of room for horseback riding.
My wife’s principal and her husband he is a real Mexican cowboy take these wonderful rides along river bottoms yes we do still have some free flowing rivers.
Yee hah
Bill, I was getting excited until you mentioned golf
If mankind were measured on their golfing ability, I would make the foundations of hell and damnation
Actually I like golf but dont play much just thought it would be the politically correct thing to say.
I gotta have English tack, though. Never feel secure in a western saddle.
Shirin, I’d give anything to watch you ride a horse! That’d be such a hoot! We should all get together sometime.
There was a time when I would have enjoyed YearlyKos, but nevermore. we can do something else!
I used to ride just about every single day in Iraq, and had horses here in the states for years. Last time I rode was in Egypt, 2005. I miss my horses a lot, but my life doesn’t accommodate horses very well now. I barely have time for myself!
Shirin
Come visit AZ where a lot of ppl still live on small ranches keep horses and ride all over the place.There lots of trails, as well as trail rides you can go on. You want English tack Im sure we could fix you up.
You know, I never could really get into Daily Kos, but wasn’t sure why. One of my colleagues is a real devotee and goes to Yearly Kos. I have put up one diary there because he saw the piece I had written and urged me to. I’m glad I did it, but it was really not a terribly satisfying experience.
Larry,
It kind of seems like you are off of your medication or something. Is there anything we can do to help? Get well soon.
Hell, I’ve been censored at Huffpost and a few small blogs for defending Hillary against unfounded attacks. Since I refused to pay homage to the Obama god, I was called a troll and a few other choice words and banned. The strange thing is, I never used bad language or said anything that wasn’t fact…and I was called a racist C**t, and a homophobe (I have no idea why they said that—I didn’t even mention sexual orientations). I was banned and none of the Obamabots were. Go figure.
I feel like I’m living in bazarro world. I thought this mouth breathing cult behavior was a right wing thing…I guess progressives or liberals or whatever they call themselves are just as idiotic as the Bushies. And here I thought with this election we were going to get rid of the fascists. Looks like we have a new crop of them…headed by Obama.
Wow. I used to have respect for you Larry. Used to like Taylor Marsh too.
Now you’ve both flipped out — I’ve never seen more over-the-top personal attacks, invocations of Godwin’s Law, or sustained incoherent rage than I have in the posts and comments on this site and Taylor’s in the last few days.
I like Clinton and I like Obama and I strongly believe that either would be a much better president than John McCain.
Step back and get a grip. Please.
Oh this reminds me of when Kos’s pal Jerome got busted for being crooked as a dog’s hind leg and Kos sent out the e-mail to all the liberal blogs telling them “Don’t discuss it.” And they all fell in line with few exceptions. At the time I was posting over at firedoglake.com and I asked why not discuss it? I was abused six ways from Sunday, labeled a “concern troll,” and the words in my post were eliminated and replaced by TRex with a personal attack on me for bringing this up when Jane’s mother had just died even though I had not brought it up.
It was being discussed there by posters mocking the idea that Kos would or could ever be controlling. In the face of the fact that they were obviously being controlled, the herd was braying like a bunch of jackasses that nobody could control them.
And now the petty tyrant is selling kool-aid and his sheep are buying it, slugging it down, and Kos is villifying anyone who won’t buy his kool-aid because he says so.
Back when Kos was stifling comment about his partner’s crooked ways, and I was being attacked personally for questioning the wisdom of allowing some self-appointed petty tyrant to dictate what may and may not be discussed on the left-net I knew the day would come when I could say I told you so. I had no idea it would come so soon.
The comparison to Animal Farm is perfect. Unfortunately, most people are sheep. That is ever the problem. It’s also too bad that we have such a pathetic press corps. I would love to see the press pick up on your “Fuck You Kos” and run with it as they would if Kos were pimping HRC the way he is pimping B.O.
Thanks for this reference, star. I was completely unaware of Jerome’s SEC fine - guess that story was hushed up around the blogosphere extremely well.
The only good thing is that Hillary is up like 20 pts in Ohio and Texas. I don’t understnd how that Rasmusum could show her down by 11 pts nationwide, though.
What’s dailykos anyway? How many readers do they get? I don’t like men who want to make us all like those arabs. Why is it that men own all the blogs and say all these things?
“I don’t like men who want to make us all like those arabs.”
Huh?! What arabs? What have arabs to do with any of this?
Good stuff, Larry. Laughed so hard I nearly wet myself…
I recall when blogs first began to become mainstream and Dailykos began attracting lots of attention as one of the leading prgressive blogs.
News articles about Dailykos described it as essentially a “people’s blog” and kos as a “moderator” who facilitated individual bloggers expressing themselves rather than someone who censored other bloggers and determined what was orthodoxy and what was heresy.
I used to go there to read the front page stories but I gradually stopped because of the obvious anti-Hillary/pro-Obama bias that I was seeing
But I usually didn’t read the comments or post my ownat kos because the huge volume of comments takes too much time to read through and would make my own posts relatively invisible.
I knew Hillary supporters like myself had been made to feel unwelcomeby the obnoxiousness of the Obama supporters, but I was unaware they were now scrubbing posts they didn’t agree with. Fuck them.
I didn’t leave anything there, so I don’t need to go back. I don’t want any part of that kind of stuff, and I hate to say it but I am beginning to feel very uncomfortable with the idea of voting for the man they worship if Hilary loses. And I’m a “yellow-dog” Democrat.
It’s very possible that Kos’s increasing popularity has encouraged groupthink, and it’s become insular and intolerant of different opinions. That’s totally reasonable. And honestly, if you’re going to paraphrase Kos, when you have the quote, wait till you have the fucking quote before posting. Burden of proof etc. If the quote’s legit then I won’t have wasted my time waiting. But why the fuck take it so personally? I mean, if you’re simply a calm rational voice pointing out a popular guys weaknesses, shake the dust off your feet and walk the fuck away. Considering the shit this country has gone to one moderately-sized blog full of hippies is not going to shatter the balance. Chill the fuck out.
Larry stop holding back and tell us what you really think.
I do feel your pain though. Having visited your sight and Taylor Marsh’s I do have the feeling that you are the few who are at least trying to pull the curtain on the wizard of Hope. Taylor started out having “no dog in the fight.” but ended up pro-Clinton due to all the over-the-top misogyny directed toward Hillary from both the corporate media left blogistan.
If it were not for this blog I would never have heard about how Obama naively got caught up in the Kenyan election debacle. I nearly went apoplectic when the junior Senator tried his best Tarzan yell on Pakistan. Of all the idiotic he-man Rambo wanna-be statements on international affairs Obama’s had to be the worst of the 2008 election follies. Invade the sovereign territory of Pakistan on actionable intelligence of terrorist plots or malfeasance without permission of the government of Pakistan? Pakistan is just going to let us go tear-assing in Pashtun badlands whenever we feel the urge? How clueless can you be? That and his other foot-in-mouth moment on foreign affairs “yes I think sitting down with Kim Jong Il for tea and crumpets is a dandy idea” shows a man who has given zero serious thoughts to foreign policy. He swung from one extreme to the other in a matter of months. Larry was spot on to query Obama’s lack of depth.
As for the superiority of “community standards” , well I got your standards right here big guy. Standards can devolve into thoughtcrime rather easily que no? When you are pissed as Larry was (is? will continue to be ??) about the behavior of the Obamabots sometimes profanity is the only answer. Not having the time to waste at KOS, I will have to take the word of others of the bias at the site. The rot has been there for a while. It began when KOS decided that the 9/11 “truth seekers” were no longer welcome at his site. At the time I must admit I had few problems with the tin-foil-hatters and the conspiracy theorists getting the heave-ho. But I should of known better. The goose-steppers always start with the weakest foes and then work their way up the food chain.
It says volumes about the KOSsacks that the real progressive, the man who was pushing the real issues, John Edwards got squeezed out of the discussion at KOS. The man freaking apologized for his Iraq vote but that was still not good enough for the high and mighty Obamabots. Never mind Edwards long history of defending the least amongst us, Never mind it was Edwards that lead on health care, on jobs, on an end for the war (ten months was the final answer), never mind he lead on just about every issue that is supposed to make progressive hearts go pitter-pat. No, we are going for the empty suite with a good stump speech and scary stupid / naive foreign policy ideas. We are going to follow Mr. Hope-on-a-rope to the land of milk and honey where everyone gets a pony. Never mind he slagged the unions as a “special interest”, never mind Mr Change and purity is loaded to the gills with lobbyist moola, never mind his campaign chair in NH was a freaking lobbyist, never mind he re-opened the Pandora’s box of Social Security “reform” when there was no need-it ain’t broke, it ain’t going broke, never mind the sleazy Harry & Louis flyer he put out, never mind his love of Republican talking points–Barack is the one. Yes his is the one, until the Rezko affair explodes in his face like a trick cigar.
There is a deep sewer of Chicago muck that we are just beginning to wade through with Rezko. Please, the house deal alone stinks to high heaven, never mind the national security issues Larry is bringing to the fore. Do I have to remind folks of the hay that the Republicans made out of the Whitewater non-event? Rezko is Whitewater and the Buddhist temple “money scandal” rolled into an Islamist meme and fed on steroids and human growth hormones. Obama will get eaten alive on this in November.
Remember the Corporate media has been in bed with McCain since 2000 and before. They will toss Barak in the trash quicker than you can say “Madrassa” All the hate and bile of the Hillary haters will be redirected at Obama. Of course race will never be mentioned just lots of swiftboating and anti-Harold Ford Jr type insinuations. But KOSsacks prefer fairy tales I guess. All hail Mr Unity! All hail the one true hope! All hail Barack!
Amazing, the Whiny Ass Titty Baby Spoiled Frat Boyz show up sucking their thumbs some more and wail about their poor poor KosCo getting some much deserved criticism. Awwww how cute. Same names you see running around everywhere being good little concern trolls or abusing everyone in sight on every blog they can manage to post at. Amusingly for us they fit the old cliche that they can’t take what they dish out. It’s getting rather effortless to knock down their logical fallacies and baseless smears.
Addressing Larry though it’s the same old tired “Larry up your meds” lame crap coming from the very people who have done a smashingly great job of everyone else questioning their sanity. We do call that projection for a reason. But with women they are too busy beating them up, from Hillary on down, which explains their further weakness and meekness when they come here to try to transfer their own guilt onto Larry. You better start suiting up in ironcast jockstraps, you’re going to need them the way it is going. And I mean from us Ladies. Larry can handle himself quite well.
Are they brave enough to get and run their own blog? Oh hell no. They’d burst into tears at the first mean comment about their “writing” that they are now accountable for. WIMPS. Here’s a big cluebat for you. Some say you’ve lost respect because he has started vetting Obama at last, that the Media fell down on their job of doing as usual. But what makes you think we ever had any for you in the first place? Shockers.
I’ve never heard so many pathetic excuses in my life. They can’t come up with any real facts, can’t face any real facts, can’t face reality in any form. Can’t answer what it is that Obama has ever done, or will do for them. Can’t answer anything. They can’t do shit. They can’t hold a candle to Larry or Taylor. They can’t debate Hillary themselves without getting laughed off the stage. (I’d pay to see that) They can’t admit what even the foreign press is concerned and writing about: why is the coverage so UNFAIRLY lopsided? Real professional journalists are just as appalled as we are.
AMEN, Larry! I am so disgusted by Markos Moulitsas and his totalitarian Group-Think Thugs. I agree with every word you’ve written about Markos. I’m ashamed that he is even invited to represent progressive blogs. He doesn’t represent MY progressive values in the least. His thugs troll-rate and threaten, gang-bang, and auto-ban every opinion that doesn’t conform to their own group-think. Silencing any dissent keeps all commenters there in line, compliant so they don’t get auto-banned from the site.
THAT IS CULT-THINKING. THAT IS CULT BEHAVIOR.
First they came for Joseph Wilson.
Then they came for Paul Krugman.
Then they came for Larry Johnson.
Who’s next?
The rest of us.
what kills me about all of this is that I agree that “Establishment Man” was filled with “unsupported claims”…. and did contain “inflammatory and insulting language”.
The only problem I have is that at Kos, one can make the most unsupportable claims, and use the most inflammatory and insulting language, with complete abandon — if you are talking about Hillary.
I stopped going to Kos regularly a long time ago, when it became way too crowded and cliquish. But when I started getting troll rated for criticizing Pelosi for ducking out of yearly kos (this was during the first FISA amendment fiasco, and people defended her because she had to be in DC to make sure that the new bill didn’t contain objectionable provisions — which, of course, she folded on), I decided it was no longer worth it.
But the appalling groupthink mentality at DK wasn’t quite as bad a month ago — that was when (without specifically endorsing Obama), Markos announced that he was voting for Obama. The Obamabots seem to have flooded the site since that time.
Larry, thanks for posting that warning.
I left dailyKos about 2 weeks ago when it became obvious to me that rational conversation had left the building. What you have shown here is proof of that. While it was obvious that Kos and most of the community there were Obama supporters, what turned me off was the cult of personality behaviour.
Orcinus on Wed tries to say that Obamabots behaviour isn’t cult-like. She’s wrong. Instead of discussing the behavior of the Obama followers in question, she attempts to dismiss those who make this observations as aging boomers who want to disillusion the youth.
She’s missing the point, which your evidence shows clearly. No one is claiming Obama is the reincarnation of Jim Jones. I am saying that Obamabots engage in cult-like behavior. This includes strong us-them mentality: either you’re with us or we hate you and everything you stand for and all your friends. This includes worshipping a central leader: no criticism of any statement of policy is allowed and anything the leader says (or does) must be defended, no matter if it’s immoral or incorrect. This includes a change in personality or personal belief: all of a sudden, dailyKos administrators are construing statements of fact as xenophobic muslim-baiting and whining that strong language isn’t acceptable in internet diaries? LOL Talk about a reversal in site policy.
I left Kos last summer, removed links from my sites and deleted all bookmarks. Those guys have serious control-freak problems.
As to the election, since there are no Democrats running now that Edwards has ended his campaign, how does it matter if GOP operative Clinton or GOP operative Obama are installed as Acting President?
We have decades of history of Clinton’s extreme corruption, and we know some of Obama’s corruption and who owns him, so I don’t understand why any ‘progressive’ or ‘liberal’ Democrat would publicly admit to supporting either Senator.
They are both corrupt and they are both right-of-center Republicans masquerading as Democrats (but neither care one bit for the values of the Democratic Party, and both go out of their way to make it clear that they will never, ever enact anything the Democrat’s core constituency wants.
So I have no one to vote for this election, a corrupt right-wing tool of corporate corruption (Senators Clinton & Obama) or a far right wing extremist (McCain & Huckabee).
[...] DailyKos is now asking non-Obamaphiles to pre-admit their guilt (for supporting someone other than Obama) and check a box agreeing that their previous post was Muslim-baiting or racist or some other damn thing, before they are allowed to continue posting. I swear to God, when I went to YearlyKos06, none of this $%#^ was in evidence. It was like one big family reunion. That started to change at YearlyKos07 when Edwards started rolling out the big guns against Clinton. I understand why he did it. It was nothing personal. Just politics. He got caught unprepared when the Obama juggernaut started up ao he went after the base with hard hitting and not always fair anti-Hillary screed. She was the biggest corportaist, triangulating, establishment loving, lobbyist ass-kissing senator that ever lived. That’s when he thought Clinton was his biggest threat. If he had more clearly seen the threat from his right, all of these accusations would have been hurled at Obama, with slight variations, and it would have been a lot more accurate. But nevermind, his supporters were genuine, maybe a little too pure but their hearts were in the right place. Many Edwardians are still struggling and that’s OK. Give them a little breathing room. But Obamaphiles are a completely different breed altogether. So, Kos isn’t even pretending there is anything approaching objectivity with the frontpagers. I think we can be pretty certain that KagroX is the grand poo-bah of Obamamania. (Yeah, I never liked you either, KX) DailyKos is in the grip of something transforming. And not in a good way. At one point, it was taken seriously, presidential candidates spoke to it, Kos was featured on frontline specials, we gave David Brooks fits. Not anymore. Now it has become the parody that Brooks once claimed it was. It is full of rabid lambs- feckless foaming at the mouth fanatics. How the mighty have fallen. Kos may think we will come back after the primaries but that would be like hanging out with people who now run with a different crowd. One that does some pretty hard #$%^ and drive recklessly and don’t do their homework anymore and are in danger of dropping out of school to work as itinerant gas station attendants. There but for the grace of God go I. [...]
[...] CIA operative Larry Johnson has this to say to DailyKos. Taylor Marsh, a Clinton supporter, is experiencing more and more blog [...]
JESUS CHRIST WHAT A GREAT FUCKING POST! LOL !
I gave up Kos a long time ago. They are insane and extremists.. this liberal independent saw that eons ago.
I gave up Huffington Post after I saw the Hillary hate and Obama Svengali love about a month or more ago.. I haven’t given up on Raw Story yet (thought they show some bias they at least still cover news).. and alas, I bitch in emails almost daily to msnbc about their reporting.
CNN isn’t good either but not anywhere near as bad as msnbc.. but all the right wing mouth pieces on cnn and liberal extremist Jack Cafferty is just as bad as Kos and I’ve sent him my thoughts a few times too!
This is a god thing.. they thought Bush was god in 2000 and elected this incompetent moron to ruin this country…and he did on soooo many levels..
Now we’ve got racist, misogynist, Obama worship as if he’s their new Svengali, their new god.
It’ disgusts me. Not only will I never vote for Obama after what I’ve witnessed, but this has set back my feelings regarding racism about 40 yrs.
DON’T dare to play the race card in my face and expect me not to react. Calling out Bill Clinton for a racist remark did it for me. He did nothing wrong, he said nothing incorrect.. The Clinton’s have been so active in the needs of Blacks for sooooo many years, and to see the black community spit on them and turn on them simply to vote for a half black man they’ve never heard of who lacks credentials, substance and is full of EMPTY RHETORIC, infuriates me beyond words. Then note Jesse Jackson Jr on the Obama payroll who is the kind of vulgar race baiter who dares to say Hillary didn’t cry over Katrina.. FUCK HIM.
I will never forgive the black community for what they are doing.. and it is a biased racist sexist campaign we are witnessing.
Hillary never cried, never.. and those who say she did are lying or have no clue what “crying” actually is.. I’m so sick of the bullshit, spin and lying in the press..
I will never forgive the media for their incompetents in shoving Bush down our throats for 8 yrs (and no I never voted for him as an independent, apparently I’m one of the few who actually researched the guy before I voted).. and now they are trying to shove Obama down our throats.
I’ll never trust the press and I’ll continue to bitch in emails and pester the hell out of them, I’ll never go back to HuffPo or Daily Kos, and I’ll never vote for Obama.
I’m quite ready for a McCrazy presidency that wants to lead us into a 100 yr war.
Not only does more investigation need to be done on Obama and his lead up to a presidency run which apparently was the setup for years in the making.. but I think some deep investigation needs to be done on Axelrod.
Glad to see someone else got the Jesse Jackson Jr. remarks up. Evidently race-baiting is only a bad thing when the perception is that the Clinton’s are doing it. And any woman that votes for Hillary because she’s a woman is stupid and probably old & stupid but an African-American voting for Obama just because he’s black is historic. Don’t it just make your head hurt sometimes?
this has set back my feelings regarding racism about 40 yrs.
In what way? I ask ’cause it is an interesting point.
investigation needs to be done on Axelrod (and Penn).
I always avoid the Big Orange around the primaries. The influx of new people with a short-term mindset always sends things way out of balance. Some of them will stick around, and they’ll see that building a grassroots network is a long-term process and not tied to any candidate or individual race.
Markos is usually heavy-handed with his “editorial control”, but that’s to be expected. After all, to the corporate media, the left-wing blogosphere=Kos. Any comments posted on the site can - and will - be quoted out of context to show that liberals are intolerant and unhinged. While I don’t agree with his way of handling those things, I accept that it is his site and bears his name. So I look for other places to comment for a few months. I’ll be back at Kos this summer, once the real race has started.
That’s all fine and dandy, run right back to your Boyz once you feel safer. But a permanent division has occured where huge numbers of women and a large number of real men have left the DailyCesspool for good. Forever. They don’t post, comment, or click on the site. Zero traffic from us. We have removed the site from our blogrolls and our bookmarks. We don’t link to ANY diaries (the worthy ones are read where they cross post them) originating from there. A fullblown permanent Boyzcott, which includes sites like TPM, another untrustworthy sexist wasteland.
We have pounded the so called Media that those sites do NOT represent us, much less the Left. We will thoroughly discredit Kos and his site before we’re done. We’re very aware of the fact they have zero credibilty, zero trust, and zero respect from us already.
This is not some situation where everything will be all hunky dory after the primaries and everyone will flood back. WRONG. Wake up. Everything has changed. The idiots brought it on themselves.
My point is that nothing has changed. I remember these same sorts of divisions in 2004, and all the predictions about how the Deaniacs could never reconcile with the rest of the party.
The fact is, like 2004, 2008 has seen a huge influx of people new to the presidential campaign process, and many of them don’t have the perspective to realize that this - like virtually everything in politics - is a temporary situation.
To declare TPM and Kos the “enemy” is ridiculous - just as ridiculous as asserting that any one site is representative of the broad range of views on “the left”.
Please note that the Deaniacs did not reconcile with the party: they are taking it over–huge difference. Deaniacs are slowly taking over numerous local (county and city) Democratic Organizations by the simplest means, showing up. Also note that the man himself, Gov Dean,lead the charge by taking over the DNC. He was helped by grass roots support that he is now growing and nurturing. Gov Dean and his brother via DFA have grown the Progressive Democratic brand. They were the folks who helped create the pushback of 2006. They and our great candidates have made the primaries of 2008 record-setting, blow out events.
WRONG again. While you were “busy” in your circle jerks and consumed with Pride & Avarice, everything did change and shift. Brian and James are two of the biggest idiots on this thread besides Herchel. Brad and Sean the Flying Monkeys are right there with you. You are all are living in 2004 and 2006 still. You don’t comprehend a thing do you. Low Information Lowbrows. What cloudy scales you have on your eyes with matching hubris & arrogance to blind you. Next you’ll pitifully mew I’m a Bitch. Takes one to know one
That’s what happens when you believe your own self proclaimed crowning & glory “worth”, which is actually a false sense of self importance and false sense of security. What you unthinkingly if not purposely shat upon was the fact that women of all ages and races make up over half of the Democratic Party loyal base that have paid our dues and money for decades. You’re nothing but a tiny fraction of it. Show me the demographic stats that prove you Frat Boyz Blozos are the majority of our party. You think we’re going to quietly condone or tolerate the reprehensible treatment you and the Media have shown Senator Clinton? Not on your life. You really are clueless.
Who in the fuck do you think you are and who in the fuck do you think you are trying to bullshit? Nobody here, only yourselves. How unfortunate for you that you can’t hide behind Kos’ frilly skirts and pull your normal shit of trying to troll rate an opposing opinion and seasoned wisdom into oblivion but have to directly take the incoming fire and Depth Charges in front of Larry and the whole world to see.
To be perfectly clear, I have never been a member of DK because I’m smarter than that, and I find it hilarious that you Blozos have to try to pick me out to gang bang on in this thread. WIMPS. You couldn’t just add your usual uninformed comment to the thread, and so you make another fatal mistake of assuming you are smarter than me and know better. Way to go asshat Blozos. Having fun yet?
I have reason to believe I’ve been in the Democratic Party twice as long as you, as many of us have. I used to support Howard Dean, the DNC, and orgs like DFA and MoveOn. No more, DONE with all of them. We’ve removed ourselves from them as members and cut off the ATM. OUCH. Howard Dean and his biased brother need to be immediately fired from the DNC. They and you can no longer COUNT on our vote. If you think we’re going to vote for a complete fraud like Obama you’ve lost your minds and need therapy.
That’s how serious it has gotten that a combination of them along with their tag team help with the complicit media has made a disgusting mockery of THIS election season. They are a hair breath away from losing their biggest solid base: Women and the men who love us. Wake the fuck up. What are YOU going to do or WIN without us? Scared yet? You should be.
Note that the Media with their own ulterior motives in full blown “overt” actions of the second they get Obama the nomination by hook or crook they take down Obama next to lose the GE. The Repubs have revealed themselves this week that is exactly their plan and what they’ve been doing since Iowa. They are ridiculing the Dems for “not catching on sooner”, or did you miss the memos that came out, what we’ve known and been correct about from day one? And you want to talk about who is right on day one. It hasn’t been you or Obama. Obama has managed to do the Republicans job for them in splitting our party in half. You have a Civil War coming and it won’t be over the race baiting he practices with impunity, it will be over the only true and big story this year: Sexism. Domestic Terrorist War On Women. The very same thing you’ve been guilty of.
You aren’t the solution of anything, you are smack in the middle of the PROBLEM. Problem Childs that need to grow the hell up and join the 21st century. Let the Deprogramming begin. You don’t have the brains Goddess gave a bird, can’t recognize Hillary’s competence, the very thing Obama is lacking the most besides a shred of experience. The Rethugs have already started their campaign to take him down, only thing left is the sobbing and “shock”.
How’s this warmup bitchslapping feeling for you? Starting to see where you made your fatal FLAWS & MISTAKES yet? You aren’t taking over shit, you had your chance and blew it bigtime. Shame on you idiots. Fuck off. The real adults are taking matters into our own hands.
Actually, many comments made by Kos himself have sounded as if they came out of the mind of an intolerant, unhinged rightwingnut.
He claims to be a “progressive” but he’s really just a little Republican fratboy. And, as I’ve often said, the wrong ki