NAFTA, from a horse’s mouth [UPDATED x3]
By SusanUnPC on February 26, 2008 at 11:38 AM in Barack Obama, Health Care, Hillary Clinton, NAFTA
UPDATE: See this video of the Machinists’ Union president describing how Sen. Obama screwed Illinois union members who worked for Maytag while giving them a big speech about helping them and taking their hard-earned money — but that Obama then took money from Maytag owners and never spoke up about the workers to the owners. (When the fuck are people going to wake up about this bamboozler?) UPDATE x2: “Interesting tone from CNBC about Obama.” UPDATE x3: “UPDATE – Obama Continues Misleading Attacks on Trade, Former Clinton Advisor Confirms that Hillary was critical of NAFTA.”
Original: David Gergen, on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 last night, second hour:
If I could just add one other postscript, Anderson, on NAFTA; I was actually there in the Clinton White House during the NAFTA fight. And I must tell you, Hillary Clinton was extremely unenthusiastic about NAFTA. She — and I think that’s putting it mildly. I’m not sure how she objected to all the provisions of it. She just didn’t see why that White House had to go do that fight.
She was very unhappy about it, wanted to move on to health care. So I do think there’s some justification for her camp saying, you know, she’s never been a great backer of NAFTA.
COOPER: Interesting.
BORGER: But it did have to do with health care, David, right? Because health care was her baby and NAFTA was the president’s baby.
GERGEN: Well, that’s right. As you remember, Gloria, Bill Clinton, I thought it was one of his most courageous decisions. I’m a NAFTA backer. But he had to take on the labor unions. He had to take on a lot of her Democratic constituencies that she wanted to keep firm for the health care fight. So there was a lot about NAFTA she didn’t really like, but she had to keep her mouth shut because, after all, he was the president.
It’s interesting to note that Gergen, a “NAFTA backer,” spoke out on what he witnessed firsthand: That she was opposed to NAFTA.
This jives with the biographical works of Carl Bernstein and others. From Crooks & Liars, “Carl Bernstein: Hillary Clinton and NAFTA“:
Bernstein: Hillary Clinton’s economics, the ones she preached to her husband in the White House are much closer to John Edwards than you would think. She argued with Bill Clinton when she was First Lady, her husband, she said ‘Bill, you are doing Republican economics when you are doing NAFTA.’ She was against NAFTA. And if she would somehow come out and tell the real story of what she fought for in the White House and failed in a big argument with her husband she would end up moving much closer to those Edwards followers. (Video at Crooks & Liars)
See also: Alegre’s article here, “Now he’s lying about NAFTA.”
And see this: “Obama: “I Believe In Free Trade.”
(small, medium and large sizes; for both dogs and cats)
+ 
This is a positive for HIllary. Just do not understand why Obama is getting so much support from Unions?
Bandwagon.
I wish every union member could see Buffenbarger’s speech, which is posted here. He’s the president of the Machinists. He told people how Obama screwed the Maytag workers and took money from the Crown family, on the board of Maytag but never spoke up on behalf of the workers to the Crown patriarch. (Quoted in a Chicago newspaper, which I also linked.)
Aren’t unions lobbyists?
Wow. What I want to know is, why would David Gergen not have said something before now? He’s been sitting at that desk before knowing damn well they were skewering her unfairly. This is just too much for me to stomach. She truly is a strong and poised woman because I might have cursed everybody out by now.
Gee, it’s almost as if the media wants a certain person to win the nom…….
After attending two Clinton events in the last week in Ohio I really do not understand why both events were at small auditoriums when thousands have been showing up and have been turned away. Not a good strategy especially when Obama keeps having events at big centers and then fills them up.
Hillary is drawing thousands in Ohio…don’t turn people away
He’s on Obama’s economics advisory team. Big NAFTA proponent who is hiding past associations with that behind his adoption of RNC speaking points against Universal Health Care.
Fetch the fainting couch for Obama supporters, the man who is campaigining against NAFTA has one of the people who helped impose the trade agreement on his economics team.
From RonK Seattle? (His writings can be searched here with our trusty search engine. Very good.)
The footnote is to a review of economic policy during the Clinton years, from a Harvard pdf.
This after searching his name from having seen him as part of the DLC flavors on his economic advisory crew.
My initial google search came across the myDD link, one that also cites RonK, his reference to one of the big three advisers on the Obama economics team.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/3/145442/8316
The third name there was the name of Cutler. Cross referencing Cutler’s name with the DLC brought up the Harvard link. Guess Obama has a soft spot for outsourcing elitists from the same Ivy League school.
Today (TUesday 2/26) it is snowing in Northeast Ohio. Yet, the crowds for Hillary are huge. According to the NY Times and Washington Post, her candidacy is already dead. Doesn’t she know this?
Dee Dee Myers was on Keith Olbermann last night talking about the media giving Obama a free-pass on everything while, according to the media, Hillary does nothing right. She has an article in “Vanity Fair” online-”The Free-Pass Sexism of the Hillary-Hate Brigade.” And a book-I’m not sure I have the title correct-”Why Women Should Rule the World”-they have a leaning toward negotiation over force, etc.
I know we all know this, but my question is-Why did Olbermann have Myers on? Could it be he KNOWS something I don’t know? That Meyers would have no impact on his audience because she is a woman? He didn’t even discuss Myers’ message-just kind of nodded, then said goodbye.
Knowing what we know now about the media, etc., would it have helped if Hillary had begun to push back earlier? Personally, I don’t think anything would have mattered. Who could have anticipated the rampant misogyny in the media? e.g., the certainty there would be none to mild repercussions when refering to a female Senator’s daughter using the verb “pimp”? And the susceptibility of the voters to a “messiah message”? I thought women would turn out in droves for Hillary because they care about children, education, the economy, health care, the hate of the Republican propensity for war. What happened? Why aren’t the women voters turning out for her in larger numbers? What is the psychology behind their decision to not vote for Hillary? What the fuck is going on?
This was Olbermann’s attempt to feign fairness. He’s just a misogynistic hate monger like the rest of them.
I don’t know about that. He definitely knows which candidate his bosses support though.
One has to wonder. Then there’s his girlfriend who’s at least 30 years younger than he. I know that that can happen. He said they love acting like two little kids together. That’s cool.
BUT he definitely knows who’s watching (young males at la Daily Kos) and caters to that demographic. It pleases his advertisers and bosses. (And, my god, half his show is advertising … when I used to DVR it, I’d have to wait until it’d been on for a good 30 minutes or I’d catch up while fast-forwarding through the ads.) Ditto CNN ads. Endless.
Over 35, and they’re not young, over 25 and they’re not young, IMO.
Not all boys that age are like Kos, and Adam, but that small sub group, there, is creepy.
Like Lord of the Flies, but for effeminate, sub elite, speciously intellectual anal retentives.
Which group in “Lord of the Flies”–the ones who had a brief, shining moment of mayhem and murder or the other group who came to understand they had to watch where they put their feet?
>>> “Like Lord of the Flies, but for effeminate, sub elite, speciously intellectual anal retentives.”
I usually save a lot of air and refer to these people as, “pissants.”
Dan Abrams and the rest of the control crowd at MSNBC allows Olberman to go just left enough to draw in the Dkos crowd. Ever hear Olberman touch the Israeli Palestinian conflict?
I was able to ask Chris Matthews at the Libby trial why they never report about this critical issue (of course I knew why) but great to hear it out of his mouth. Matthews replied “I don’t control the programming”
You know the marching orders
Exactly. It wouldn’t have mattered what she said. She’s a woman, which means she’d have to move to an actually good, forward-thinking country to run for president.
The patriarchical United States is off-limits for women.
Can people be hypnotised at a rally? Are there really such things as subliminal messages? I just get the feeling people are becoming someone else. I know this sounds stupid but I cannot figure out what is going on. I am not the smartest person in the room but even I can tell something is wrong. So wrong.
Can people be hypnotised at a rally?
Yes. collective mesmerization. You geta SCI-FI moment?
George Packer from the New Yorker was.
Slate desconstructs Obama’s technique:
>>> “…moments after a 25-minute campaign speech by Obama in New Hampshire concluded, he couldn’t remember exactly what the candidate said…”
Probably describes his love life, too.
Wait until Rove and the Traler Park Trawlers turn up a white girlfriend..a RECENT white girlfriend.
There’ll Fun, Fun, Fun Til Daddy Takes the T-Bird Away.
As someone poster at No quarter Usa (it may have been Susan) Obama is the young generations I-Pod candy.
When I first started asking OBama supporters just why they were supporting him the responses are always “hope and change, hope and change, hope and change”. These responses truly reminded me of the years many were searching for “the meaning of life” and became involved with Guru Maharaji ( I always called him Guru Mazarati) or EST (ESTaholics) etc etc. You know the folks (I tried to be one of them but started asking questions far too early) who would look you in the eyes to see if you were one of them? A certain language, certain quotes. Scary
This sounds very much like my experiences around various cults in Texas. You wouldn’t have heard of them because they don’t gain traction and are just around.
One kept telling me I had to:
the pitch artists - “accept the Dao”…
me: “You mean Taoism?”
the pitch artists - “No, thats different”
They were trying to get me to buy into endless donations actually. But since I grew up reading Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu and others…this was totally confusing to me. How was this the “Dao”.
Ask too many questions and you become a danger.
Flash back 20+ years and the same thing happened in churches I’d go to and ask:
“Yeah, thats great but what about in Timothy where Paul says Women are to be quiet?”
I was uninvited to their groups. Now…we have Obama.
The leader reinforces this - when people mock him he says “don’t mock the people who’ve been working on my campaign.” He doesn’t answer questions, instead he says “don’t question all of these people who have been voting for me and working on my campaign.”
Classic cult leader tactic.
This is the third reference I’ve read today, on this blog, ie, the nomination being a foregone conclusion, for Obama.
That’s not correct, and you should be careful not to spread that meme, hence it appears a troll.
I guess we’ll see where this goes, ultimately with Obama, though, and the corrupt Chicago circle, it would be best to put him in prison.
(Critical theory and literary pattern used to be my thing, I studied it in college, if I’m wrong, I apologize.)
Actually, I enjoy literary theory and get excited about literary patterns. You weren’t wrong. Just that my larger intent was to pose a question re: what is happening here? The differences between Bill and George W. were obvious, but different according to political parties-and Republican benefitted big time with Bush. But that was a general election and this is a primary-H. and O. are both Democrats. What is the criteria for chosing one over the other? By almost any criteria, H. will be a better president. So why is the media so enthralled with Obama? Why is anyone?
If Hillary stays consistent with her I am the “change maker” candidate. The I’ve been there done that and will continue to work as hard as I have been for years….she has it in Ohio.
You folks know where I am stuck…her vote for the Kyl Lieberman amendment. Just do not want to witness this nation pre-emptively strike Iran.
Hillary has it in Ohio unless the Obama team continues to be successful at cloning the zombies in the MSM laboratory. I have talked to so many people the last two weeks in Ohio who are all about Hillary based on her commitment and devotion to this nation.
Will be attending my first Obama event tomorrow morning…weather permitting.
“She has an article in “Vanity Fair” online-”The Free-Pass Sexism of the Hillary-Hate Brigade.” “
Interesting.
Vanity Fair, like most of the Hollywood crowd, has embraced Obama. So I wonder if a pro-Clinton piece on the web site is Graydon Carter’s way of coppering his Obama bet in case Clinton wins and comes looking for scalps.
There is a puff piece on Obama by Todd Purdum, VF’s national editor, in the current issue.
In the same issue there is a puff piece on Joan Crawford in which she is painted as mother of the year.
“We report, You decide.”
I appreciated Faux News now. They at least make a joke out of their bias (”we report, you decide” )
I’m not really a fan of Kenny Rogers but…
On a warm summers evenin on a train bound for nowhere,
I met up with the gambler; we were both too tired to sleep.
So we took turns a starin out the window at the darkness
till boredom overtook us, and he began to speak.
He said, son, I’ve made a life out of readin peoples faces,
And knowin what their cards were by the way they held their eyes.
So if you don’t mind my sayin, I can see you’re out of aces.
For a taste of your whiskey I’ll give you some advice.
So I handed him my bottle and he drank down my last swallow.
Then he bummed a cigarette and asked me for a light.
And the night got deathly quiet, and his face lost all expression.
Said, if you’re gonna play the game, boy, ya gotta learn to play it right.
You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you’re sittin at the table.
There’ll be time enough for countin when the dealins done.
Now evry gambler knows that the secret to survivin
Is knowin what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
cause evry hands a winner and evry hands a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep.
So when he’d finished speakin, he turned back towards the window,
Crushed out his cigarette and faded off to sleep.
And somewhere in the darkness the gambler, he broke even.
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep.
You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you’re sittin at the table.
There’ll be time enough for countin when the dealins done.
You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you’re sittin at the table.
There’ll be time enough for countin when the dealins done.
I like Kenny Rogers, too. My favorite is “You picked a fine time to leave me, Lucille.” But the line “when to hold and when to fold” points to a significant difference between women and some men–when one has children one can only hold, never fold or walk or run. This isn’t a sentimental position but a hard truth.
Sorry-you were clear you were not really a fan of Kenny Rogers. I like him [cross out "too"] but rarely hear him, so the song was a treat.
Kenny Rogers, and the First edition.
My sister was a young teenager, I was but a wee one, in her shadow, and we would watch his CBS variety show, together.
“Just Dropped In (To See What Condition My Condition Was In.”
(Which is odd, given how I’ve been playing Joe Cocker’s “Feelin Alright, (not feeling too good myself),” in my head, the last two days).
Leland Rogers, Kenny’s brother, produced a milestone LP by a Texas group called The Thirteenth Floor Elevators. Their one “hit” has these lyrics:
You’re Gonna Miss Me
Oh yeah!
Ahh!
You’re gonna wake up one morning as the sun greets the dawn.
You’re gonna wake up one morning as the sun greets the dawn.
You’re gonna look around in your mind, you’re gonna find that I’m gone.
You didn’t realize,
You didn’t realize,
You didn’t realize,
You didn’t realize,
You didn’t realize.
Oh! you’re gonna miss me, baby.
Oh! you’re gonna miss me, baby.
Oh! you’re gonna miss me, child, yeah, yeah.
I gave you the warning,
But you never heeded it.
How can you say you miss my lovin,
When you never needed it?
Yeah! Yeah! Ow!
You’re gonna wake up wonderin’,
Find yourself all alone,
But what’s gonna stop me, baby?
I’m not comin’ home.
I’m not comin’ home.
I’m not comin’ home.
Oh, oh, oh, yeah!
Perhaps we can all sing this as President McCain is sworn in, having trounced Obama.
People are fed up with Republicans, the point is that a real Democrat should be in there.
Obama’s got a pretty thin record on traditional Democratic causes, though he has watered down legislation to address nuclear pollution that his campaign manager was a lobbyist for.
Most logical people are trying to ask how this is a qualifier.
[...] NAFTA, from a horse’s mouth (by SusanUnPC at No Quarter) David Gergen, on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 last night, second hour: “If I could just add one other postscript, Anderson, on NAFTA; I was actually there in the Clinton White House during the NAFTA fight. And I must tell you, Hillary Clinton was extremely unenthusiastic about NAFTA. She — and I think that’s putting it mildly. I’m not sure how she objected to all the provisions of it. She just didn’t see why that White House had to go do that fight. She was very unhappy about it, wanted to move on to health care. So I do think there’s some justification for her camp saying, you know, she’s never been a great backer of NAFTA.” This jives with the biographical works of Carl Bernstein and others. And see this: “Obama: “I Believe In Free Trade.” [...]
[...] “NAFTA, From A Horse’s Mouth,” February 26, 2008 [...]
BO is all words, no meaning. He hasn’t been telling the truth on anything — not unifying, not a new kind of politics, nothing.
OH, TX, RI, VT, WY and all the rest. We need you to correct the mistake of states that have gone before. We can’t nominate the bamboozler or we will, for sure, be in Iraq another 4 years at least.
Please, help us.
Holsteiner…
Once you totally grasp this, you\’ll be able to research more quickly….