Writers Strike at DailyKos [Updated]
By Alegre on March 14, 2008 at 9:42 PM in Daily Kos, Hillary Clinton
This is an open letter to the progressive blogosphere. This is cross-posted and on the Recommended List at DailyKos.com. (Warning: There are 1,200 comments; this link takes you to the story-only version.)
UPDATE by SusanUnPC: Alegre’s strike has been picked up by Mark Ambinder of The Atlantic magazine; he is one of the top political bloggers out there. Sat. AM UPDATE: Picked up by Jake Tapper at ABC News, Taylor Marsh, Raw Story, and Tom Watson (a great blog to check out, and don’t miss his eloquent story on the strike, “The Left Splits: Writers Flee DailyKos Over Clinton-Bashing“).
I’ve been posting at DailyKos for nearly 4 years now and started writing diaries in support of Hillary Clinton back in June of last year. Over the past few months I’ve noticed that things have become progressively more abusive toward my candidate and her supporters. I’ve put up with the abuse and anger because I’ve always believed in what our on-line community has tried to accomplish in this world. No more. DailyKos is not the site it once was thanks to the abusive nature of certain members of our community.
I’ve decided to go on “strike” and will refrain from posting here as long as the administrators allow the more disruptive members of our community to trash Hillary Clinton and distort her record without any fear of consequence or retribution. I will not be posting at DailyKos effective immediately. I will not help drive up traffic or page-hits as long as my candidate - a good and fine DEMOCRAT - is attacked in such a horrid and sexist manner not only by other diarists, but by several of those posting to the front page.
Instead, I will put my energy into posting at sites where my efforts aren’t routinely trashed, spammed and ridiculed by a handful of angry, petty and spiteful folks who clearly have too much time on their hands.
This is a strike - a walkout over unfair writing conditions at DailyKos. It does not mean that if conditions get better I won’t “work” at DailyKos again. As a regular contributor to the discourse in our community, I would certainly hope to take part in the conversation at DailyKos again some day if we ever get to the point where we’re engaging each other in discussion rather than facing off in shouting matches. But not now. Writers need a safe place to reach out and exchange ideas, to communicate and challenge one another. DailyKos should be that place, but its tone, its essence has evolved into something ugly and destructive. Good writers can’t survive in that kind of atmosphere. Democrats shouldn’t have to put up with that from fellow Democrats.
Sadly, the majority of the administrators have allowed this hostile environment to develop in our online community for anyone who isn’t planted firmly in the Obama camp. They’ve routinely ignored personal attacks and allowed disruptive, spam-like posts to go unchecked whenever anyone expresses support for Hillary or challenges something their candidate has said or done. There are however several front-pagers who have managed to avoid taking part in the attacks on Hillary and for that I’m grateful. But the site has grown to the point where they simply can’t - or won’t monitor it.
As a result, our community has become little more than an echo chamber with an attitude that harkens back to the early days of Dubbya’s administration - yer either with us or yer a’gin us, heh! The attackers and disrupters are no better than Chris Matthews with their sexism, hate, lies, and obsession with bashing - all - things - Hillary.
No, I won’t post specific attacks here. That would just be repeating the lies and the hate, but I will note that one of my fellow Kossaks (someone with whom I thought I could agree to disagree) went so far as to suggest that others try to dig up real life information on the pro-Hillary members of our community. To what end? Was his aim to find enough information on us to try to get us fired from our jobs and leave our families homeless - or worse? Suggesting that they dig up real life information on us is the lowest form of intimidation and goes way beyond the limits of all things civil and reasonable. It’s nothing more than the worst form of thuggish, hateful and intimidating behavior toward other members of our community.
Now in all fairness, that diarist saw just how far over the line he went with that post and eventually took it down. But the fact that he posted it in the first place shows us the kind of mob mentality that has been allowed to develop, grow and fester at DailyKos.
Either way, is that the kind of behavior that Obama would be proud of? Do the venomous attacks and lies about fellow Democrats represent him and all he stands for in an accurate and fair manner? Does this spiteful and vindictive behavior reunite our party? Would outing this working mother represent hope? Would it bring about change? Would Obama encourage that sort of anger, bullying, intimidation and hate from his followers toward another Democrat and her supporters? Do those followers of his help his cause at the end of the day?
I have been working for decades to get countless good Democrats elected - going back to the early `70s when I stuffed envelopes and walked precincts for George McGovern (ok so I was 10 back then but I still helped and gladly - Nixon sent several of my uncles to Vietnam). The causes I’ve worked for are those which Obama’s followers at DailyKos claim to care about. As a Yellow-Dog-Democrat and a progressive, I am deeply saddened to see what’s happened to our community.
I’ve also been a posting to discussion boards and blogs since the mid-90s, and have worked for and written about a wide range of causes from: women’s rights; the environment; an end to the genocide in Darfur; benefits and decent equipment for our troops; an end to domestic violence; the protection of children; education; strengthening our economy; healthcare; impeachment; alleviating poverty; peace… the list goes on and on and on. Many of those diaries have generated hundreds and hundreds of comments - several having topped the thousand comments mark (take THAT Keith Olbermann!).
But let me make one thing crystal clear here - this is not a GBCW post. If and when the community I once respected and of which I considered myself a valued member returns to its roots and stops attacking and maligning Hillary and other good Democrats in such a hateful and destructive manner, I’ll be happy to return as an active member of what used to be the online community of progressive activists. It is my hope that the day will come sooner rather than later.
Until that day, I’ll participate in other sites such as MyDD & Talk Left etc., and focus my energy on building them up to help fill the void that DailyKos has left in the progressive blogosphere.
Until then, I’ll take up the WGA strike motto: “We write. You wrong.” when it comes to DailyKos, and say the following to anyone reading this diary right now…
If you’re sick of the way Hillary - a good and decent Democrat - has been vilified and attacked… if you’ve EVER recommended one of my dairies on this or any other site then please join me in this effort. Let’s take a stand here and now and tell the world we will no longer remain silent in the face of the sexism, anger, irrational hate, lies and attacks against Hillary. Nor will we add to the bottom line of a site that continues to lead the charge in fueling it.
The double standards, the distortions, the hateful, irrational, personal attacks, and the lies about Hillary and her long and distinguished record of public service stop here - and they stop now.
So I hereby announce the formation of a new labor union - The American Federation of Concerned Bloggers (AFCB).
This is a writer’s strike - who’ll join me on the picket line?
By the way…
Are you current on your union dues?
Pony-up folks.
U P D A T E
Here’s that video I tried to post in the comments. I wasn’t going to post it in the body of the diary but what the heck - we’re all friends here right? 
I really am going to miss posting at DailyKos. The fact that I made it up onto the Rec List over there tonight gives me hope that we can come together again as a community when the time comes to take out John McCain in the general election.
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I found precisely the same thing with one me,ber trolling me with every question I have about Obama and even stating that they don’t want Hillary supporters in Daily Kos.
Not all, but some of these people need help. More importantly who’s in charge?
With Obama going down like the Titanic at this point what will these crazies do after they’ve lost Edwards and now lose Obama?
It’s tough to think of two states more different than Wyoming and Mississippi.
But we won Wyoming on Saturday, and we won Mississippi by a large margin.
Between those two states, we picked up enough delegates to erase the gains by Senator Clinton last Tuesday and add to our substantial lead in earned delegates. And in doing so we showed the strength and breadth of this movement.
But just turn on the news and you’ll see that Senator Clinton continues to run an expensive, negative campaign against us. Each day her campaign launches a new set of desperate attacks.
They’re not just attacking me; they’re attacking you.
Over the weekend, an aide to Senator Clinton attempted to diminish the overwhelming number of contests we’ve won by referring to places we’ve prevailed as “boutique” states and our supporters as the “latte-sipping crowd.”
I’m not sure how those terms apply to Mississippi and Wyoming — or Virginia, Iowa, Louisiana, or Idaho for that matter.
I know that our victories in all of these states demonstrate a rejection of this kind of petty, divisive campaigning.
But the fact remains that Senator Clinton’s campaign will continue to attack us using the same old Washington playbook. And now that John McCain is the Republican nominee, we are forced to campaign on two fronts.
Why are you so upset that Hillary is criticizing Obama when he is doing the same thing to her? That is politics, but you don’t seem to get it. Besides that, their criticisms of each other are fairly mild and on the issues. It’s supporters, like you, who get all bent out of shape and ratchet up the rhetoric.
And what is with the continued harping on Geraldine Ferraro? She took the hit and stepped down. Hillary clearly said she didn’t agree with or support what Ferraro said. What don’t you get about that? Are you equally upset about what Rev. Wright, who is arguably closer to Obama than Ferraro to Clinton, said about Hillary? Perhaps you haven’t heard it? If you haven’t, it is much, much worse, I promise you.
Winning Wyoming and Mississippi is great for the Obama campaign, except that those states will be nearly unwinnable by the Democratic candidate in November. How many people exactly voted in those caucuses? And how many people voted in those states in 2000 and 2004 for which candidates? Do the math. Obama supporters think they are running just against Hillary. Better keep your eyes on the real prize or be saying ‘President McCain’ next January.
calling Obama and Edwards supporters “crazies” while you cry about how uncivilized other posters are to Clinton supporters.
You should understand the Obama supporters are frustrated because Clinton has effectively lost the nomination and is now trying to steal it by way of super-delegate. And at a time when we should all be coming together and backing Obama. That is why are so uncivilized to you. We already had one election stolen in 2000, don’t want to see it happen in the dem primaries.
Cya at the credentials committee this August.
Welcome to Stalingrad, Obama Worshiper.
there we go again - more name-calling by the Clinton crowd - it is just SO ironic…
I admire your courage and principles and support your strike. Sexism permeates every act, speech and innuendo of this primary season, and it’s allowed. There’s lots of liberal white guilt that causes people to cave-in when accused of racism, but sexism and misogyny–focused like a laser beam on Hillary Clinton–goes unnoticed and unchallenged.
Welcome to No Quarter. They don’t kiss up to bullsh*t around here.
I agree with everything you said. When posters at DailyKos and other blogs started sounding like Freepers I quit reading. It is a sad commentary when we liberals can not have a calm discussion regardless of who anyone supports. The keepers of these blogs should put a stop to the nasty comments.
I stopped reading Kos a few weeks ago even before I decided on who I was voting for. I made an innocent remark about the use of Shillary or Billary bringing down the level of discourse and I was jumped on, vebally assaulted and called a racist Obama hater. Huffington Post and now even my beloved Crooks and Liars seems to have followed suit. I really love Larry but to tell you the truth you guys are a little outta’ my league as far as commenting goes, so I mostly lurk. Why does that make me feel like such a dirty girl?
I used to love Crooks and Liars the absolute best. But they have gone he way of the Obama-pods too. I don’t even visit there anymore. Their traffic probably followed the same kind of trajectory that Obama’s will. They peaked in traffic probably a month or so ago and it’s nothing but down for them now. They deserve it.
It’s really very sad that so many of the “progressive” blogs have become as bad or worse than the rightwing thugs. They have become what they once pretended to abhor.
I don’t like Obama but I cannot imagine saying the things about him I have read from other so-called liberals about Hillary.
I miss going to Crooks & Liars but they are becoming exactly what the title of their blog says.
Ditto TPM, BuzzFlash, and most of the commenters on many other blogs. None are on my favorites list any longer.
Being pro-Obama is fine, no one objects to anyone supporting their candidate, but vile, vitriolic screeds against Hillary Clinton that are exactly like the kind of things the Republicans have been doing for decades.
Given all the things that have been said, I doubt if this Humphty Dumpthy can ever be put back together again. No doubt the Republicans are laughing their asses off.
“Peaked” the live commentary traffic during the debates has been fantastic. If you have any data to show the decline in traffic then please share. Additionally, if you would please describe Senator Obama’s supposed decline in rational and logical terms. These two statements, while telling a nice “story” is a complete fabrication without data. This is precisely the same thing you are accusing the DKos posters of doing. The only difference is that you use “nicer” language.
Your statement clearly belies your political leanings and is typical of the type of spin your candidate is employing.
These are similar to the attacks I was subjected to at Jane Hamsher’s website at Firedoglake when the Israeli Palestinian conflict would be brought up and its effect on everything that is taking place in the middle east.
Lots of folks (even the moderator) would attack and hassle. Serious pile ons when this issue comes up.
Not that GOS and the slimers over there will miss me but I also will strike. No more comments…no linking to blogswarm action, FDL is the leader in that anyway, no fraternization with the feces-flinging monkeys of CheetoLand.
I feel for the few remaining people of integrity and grit: mcjoan, scout finch, jotter, Kargo X and the irreplaceable Meteor Blades.
Hopefully when the election is over, no this won’t end with the primary, the community will look around and realize that the actions of a few A-Listers such as Kos…Bowers…Marshall have revealed an appalling lack of judgment in regards to what they’ve allowed and indeed actually done to cause the factionalization of the ’sphere all in the name of two candidates who can not by any stretch of the imagination be considered progressive.
I am on strike until those responsible for the ascension of RedState political behaviour in the progressive blogosphere publicaly apologize and, further, relinquish their self-assumed power in our community.
Clearly they do not deserve it.
So what do you guys think? You in on this strike of ours?
Alegre the original diary busted the comment max. Are you going to start an overflow diary or, add people to your list of strikers in the original?
I wrote my “Goodbye Orange Republic” diary a couple of weeks ago, Alegre.
[I'm BoringDem there]. I believe that Kos has made it impossible for him or DK to effectively support Hillary if she is the nominee.
Since I favor Hillary—in fact, I think her chances are excellent—I won’t participate there any more.
I am beginning to think that there will be no amicable resolution to the primary difficulties, unless Obama’s current problems (with Wright and Rezko) prove his undoing. One of them is going to crash and burn.
Clearly Obama wants not just to defeat Hillary but to humiliate her. I doubt he will get his desire.
Wow!
I gave up DK before I could tell you this, but I wanted to thank you, Mark, BoringDem. A while back you wrote a diary on DK about Hillary. I don’t remember the thrust of it, maybe about really looking at what she’s done. And it got me, an Edwards supporter, to look. I put aside my dislike of Bill (for Nafta, not the BJ, I could care less about the BJ) and looked at Hillary herself.
I really liked what I saw. When John dropped out, I moved to Hillary. I did not expect that to happen, but it did. She’s competent and has the expertize we need. Now I’m a delegate in the WA state caucuses for Hillary. Thanks. For arguing lucidly and not putting me down and opening up a new way of thinking for me.
Alegre, some of us have got your back over at The Atlantic. Word must have gotten out as some of the rabid kossacks are there. So much for “changing the political conversation” and “unity.” Obama’s candidacy has divided the Democratic party so throughly it may well cause us to lose the election come November. WHAT is Obama’s appeal?
Absolutely in.
Thank you for such a well stated and rational post. Elton John at the end was Great.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again. Alegre, Hillary is lucky to have you on her side! Your hard work and dedication has inspired me to work harder!
Andrew
alerge … although i was never a diarist i was a member of the dkos community from almost day one. i went on strike two months ago after i got so tired of being called a racist and a sore (i supported edwards) loser. the straw that broke the camel’s back? i posted a comment urging moderation and had 17 people calling me names for not supporting obama in the manner they thought was necessary.
yes, i support your strike … it goes without saying!
Recommended!
(Hey, Larry… you’re blog moved above DKos on my bookmark list this week… way to go!!
I would disagree on one point: given that BO’s MO is the political of personal destruction, I am sure he is delighted that his supporters want to dig into people’s personal lives.
Didn’t Ferraro say that her current boss had been called by someone from the Obama campaign urging him to fire her?
I don’t read DK - I totally support your efforts. Good for you. Larry and Susan are very organized and receptive. I think you will enjoy the discourse on this blog.
They suspended my posting and rating privileges in early December. Autoban didn’t kick in because nothing I said was out of line. So, they whined to Hunter, and Hunter apparently suspended me. Now, Kos still wants to claim, for advertising purposes, X number registered users, so he doesn’t want to ban us flat out.
it’s funny - I never posted a negative diary on any candidate. To this day, if someone dares post a diary critical of Obama, someone will suspect it’s me. I’ve been gone 3 months and they are apparently still wounded by and talking about my commentary. The other day I was accused of being Lanny Davis. LOL
If Kos was as smart as he thinks he is, he would have called a halt to the endless stream of “don’t run Hillary” diaries that began infesting the place about a year and a half before she announced her candidacy. There was never anything to them but misogyny and that should be an inexcusable reason for a Democrat to object to a candidate. But by not stopping those diaries, as he stopped the 9/11 conspiracy diaries (a move I agree with), he gave tacit permission to the misogyny. Once she announced, it became overwhelming pretty quickly. Ten or twelve anti-Hillary diaries a day.
I never got why it was okay to lie about Clinton’s voting record but no one elses. For all the squawking about Clinton’s AUMF vote, you didn’t hear a peep about Dodd or Biden’s. Clinton superb record on judicial appointments was never acknowledged. Dengre was allowed to post fictional news paper accounts claiming that Clinton received money from sweatshops for her presidential campaign - a talking point he took directly from Byron York. Never mind that within a few weeks of the Tan donation to her senatorial campaign, she voted for the minimum wage bill that the Tans were opposed to. Never mind that the Clinton administration was as aggressive as they could be on sweatshop violations in the Marianas. Never mind any of those things. Dengre was allowed to pretend that there was something genuinely wrong in that donation. I called him on it and got TRd to a fare-thee-well.
Good riddance to bad rubbish. To avoid electing a woman, they’ve aligned themselves with old fashioned snake oil salesman whose campaign, as of tonight, is probably over. I bet Kos is gonna have a terrible hangover in a few days.
Lorelynn, I have referred to the bad news coming out about Obama as “lorelynn’s revenge” both at Orange Republic and Mydd.
Lorelynn: I never thought it was misogyny at DKos but rather an anti-DLC ideology. Markos Moulitsas wants to crash the (DLC) gates and he has opportunistically decided to consider the Clinton campaign as representative of the DLC.
I, too, would love to see the DLC die a death of a thousand cuts; but… I do not want my community members or my fellow Democrats burnt at the stake to do it. One can take a position, stick to it and defend it without resorting to frat house insults, pie fights, and gang trolling. I have no dog in this fight. The voting records show that there isn’t much difference between Obama and Hillary. They are, in fact, consumate insiders who have done little while in DC to oppose trade or stop funding the war. Having said that, we all know that almost anybody is better than McBush.
I went to the KOS website for a short period of time a couple years ago. Navigating through the multitudes was an exercise in futility in my mind and I deleted the bookmark and never looked back. The same problem with Huffingtonpost in my mind. I know some folks try to cross post in order to get their point of view seen by as many people as possible, but there is a point of diminishing returns to this exercise.
Alegre is logical, forceful, and respectful of others even while disagreeing with their ill-advised tactics. I fully support Alegre and the Writers strike. Too bad, not all bloggers at DailyKos are not as intelligent and noble as Alegre.
If he doesn’t he can drop by my house and I’ll whap him in the head a few times…metaphorically speaking.
Here’s what Kos…Bowers…Marshall can’t stand:
Progressive Punch ‘Chips are Down’ ratings:
Obama ranks 41st in the Senate
Clinton 24th….
These Senators are ranked more progressive than Obama:
Webb, Feinstein and Ben Nelson.
Now I was trained a physicist not a half-baked journalist like GOS so to me independent well researched metrics about any situation are good things.
I stopped believing in the magic in 1968 the same year I refused the draft.
So….
These make-believe revolutionaries ?
I’ve shit ‘em.
On to ‘More and Better Progressive Bloggers’. When the ones you got are selling out to Goldman Sachs, ‘Empty Suit’ candidate….
Time to get new ones.
I was a regular visitor to GOS but rarely a commenter. It was even one of my start pages. But the HillaryHate got so bad I stopped visiting completely.
I may never go back.
I have been amazed at the vitriol that has been directed at both Clintons, but until now no one has acknowledged the double standard that exists between the treatment of Hillary and Barack. Because of the mob behavior they demonstrate I have wondered if many of these attackers in fact were nominal Republicans until it became uncool to support Republicans and the Bush administration. Their words and conduct are so excessive that I have trouble believing that they truly understand the tolerance and respect for others that underlie liberal democratic values. I’ll join this strike.
S. Markom - I’m intrigued why you believe Obama is going down like the Titanic. Any details?
I have stayed away from KOZ. I get attacked in too many other places. I am dumbfounded how many people threw Whitewater at me today alone,lol. They must have run out of weed finally but are still right where they were 15 years ago. I leave hateful posts on my blog because I think nothing serves my opinions more than ignorant digression from the truth. I read NO Quarter without fail and reference you on my Vox account. It’s only a small pre-registered blogging site but it has good readership, friendly posters who may even disagree. But it has decorum. It also has co-Voxers who will come to your aid rather than leave you hanging in the wind when you do get attacked. Keep up the good work. These Junior Boomers drive me nuts. Their mouth are as large as their opinions but their fact checking and reason seem to be lacking.
Often in error, seldom in doubt?
–First, I deleted the bookmark of the OrangeGoo site because people couldn’t talk in any positive way about Palestine. (I’m not a big IP ‘devote’ but the censorship bothered me)
–Then it was Booman because he wouldn’t ever again support Gore, because of how Gore wouldn’t play nice after the election. That, and a post awhile back where an Intel (?) ad was being called racist because it had some nerdy white guy was standing in a cubicle area with six black sprinters in the ’set’ position. The regulars were trying to say the ’set’ position was them bowing down?! The hysteria didn’t cease even after I found a track coaches website with images of the proper starting position for sprints. And I asked them if they’d believe the computer were fast if they had a bunch of white guys in spandex? [crickets] I hate double standards.
–Then recently it’s been Puffinton and Josh (dammit, why?!).
–Even Rawstory. And MLW…I’ll still occasionally lurk there because they are usually all over the place, but something just doesn’t feel right….the sense of ‘i must live the quilt of other peoples’ forefathers’ sins’ kinda stinks the place up. BUT, I credit MSOC for generally not deleting posts or banning people just because they don’t agree. That IS something.
–Lastly, and it sickens me because I really want to keep reading/watchin’…..Crooks and any Liar but Obama. I left a comment on there about patterns and asked John to just fess up and endorse BO already. Logan comes back that ‘for the millionth time they haven’t endorsed anybody’. Yeah, but the Clinton bashing continued and finally they just ‘had’ to put up the Ferraro clips. Ms. Belle’s posts were the most suspect. Maybe next year…
–We don’t feel the need to pay for our commercials, so we don’t have cable, so I can’t not watch KO anymore. Well, ok, so I’ve downloaded from C&aLbO most of his special blowups when they were on duh’b'ya, but well, see above. But, I did ‘recycle’ his book to a half-price bookstore yesterday. That and a couple Clancy softbacks got me $5. Felt pretty good.
–But on the flip side, Taylor Marsh rocks. And Larry and Susan. Despite his most assuredly busy schedule he’s actually responded to a couple emails I’ve sent him. The stark sincerity I’ve felt here is awesome.
——————————–
There’s no ‘I’ in Hope.
guilt. [grr]
Wow, welcome to the party. I stopped even reading anything at Kos last summer!
I only go there now on an occasional link from someone else.
My feelings about the Presidential race is that both Obama and Clinton are right-of-center Republicans, given their record and stated position on current affairs.
I wanted to vote for a Democrat this election, but the media hounded them all out. So our choices are McBush; former College Republican and board member of that bastion of progressivism -WalMart; or the New Guy who has promised to NOT curb the immoral mecrenary armies of private corporations (among other things Bush has done that he’s promised not to change).
So no Democrats are in the race… Too bad for all of us. At least I did get to vote for my guy in the primary for my state!
I disagree that Hillary is a Republican. I do think Obama is a classic liberal Republican—harking back to the famous LR’s of 40-50 years ago.
For me the litmus tests that make Hillary a Democrat are her staunch defense of SS, and her position on UHC. Obama fails in both of those areas to me.
I used to post there when Gilliard was just another user and several things always tended to stand out:
1) Dkos is a watering hole for yuppies and dinks, replete with their perceptions and fears. Basically young Republicans in drag.
2)They never really tolerated any real dissent from the party line. Put it this way Kos’s “Crashing the Gates” was a marketing ploy to generate cash. He was never a reformer, just another cheer leading party hack.
I think the fundamental reason this campaign is turning so ugly is that Obama has almost nothing to run on—-
He’s not experienced enough. He tried to hoodwink and bamboozle the voters to drive the competition out early; once that failed, he was out of substance, so the campaign had to turn ugly, using race, lies, Whitewater, the Clenis.
A couple of months ago I felt mildly positive about Obama. Now? Fuck no.
One final turning point for me was discovering that his vaunted list of successes in IL came from a set of bills that was handed to him in his last year to build his resume for the Senate run.
And then he won’t even do his job in the Senate.
He’s a prima donna—a carbon copy of Bush.
Never read Daily Kos, never will. Not because of recent events which sound ridiculous…but because i’ve always felt it’s a clique. If you’re not on the inside you never will be. A shame. The site is considered a powerful voice in politics.
Democrats…liberals…like herding cats.
Oh boo hoo. Kos hates us so we’re going to boycott his site. Sheesh.
From the outside looking in, Hillary seems to be little more than Bush with tits. I don’t think she has an original thought in her body, she just repeats what she’s been told to say. Yeah… four more years of white skinned elitist crap. No thanks.
So.. vote for Obama because Hillary is a racist.
And you say HILLARY is not original.
ROFLMAO.
Case in point. Typical Obama supporter/woman hater. You can’t be a liberal and use those kind of words.
Ah, dammit! If he’d just included “America” spelled with a K in his little screed I would have made Trustafarian Hillery Hater Bingo.
Hmmmm, looks like “Billery” or some variation of “Your all loosers and so is Hitlery” (with or without the SPs) would have done it too.
Try harder little bongwater drinker! I’m counting on you.
Yeah… four more years of white skinned elitist crap.
This is the language of bigots. If that’s how you choose political candidates then you deserve the government you now have.
You could have used the pun that she is Bush with a Bush instead of with tits (what a sexise remark) But that’s okay. White skinned also? Jesus you’re a woman hater and a racist. Hard to tell who you are for. Make another pitcher of Kool aid and spread the good word about Obama. He needs another friend like you. That’s what will keep him out of the White House. Not that I’m complaining. He should never be there to begin with.
You just made her point for her pinhead.
How very troll…..
I came to Hillary late in the game, having supported Edwards, but when I sought information about Obama v Hillary I was astonished as the vitrol and Clinton Derangement Syndrome was everywhere. Not just on Kos, who has his own special place in hell, but on TPM and DU as well. I was an avid supporter of all but, right now, I could not tell you the last time I clicked on any of the three. I will not let my clicks contribute one penny to any of them! They’ve drunk the Kool-Aide and it is a bitter tasting one at that! Did I hear 527 anyone?
I haven’t decided what I will do if Obama is the nominee. I’ve never not voted and would do almost anything to ensure McCain’s defeat but I am having great difficulty.
I’m sick of the misogynist remarks. I’m sick of emails and letters to MSNBC with no change. It disheartens me that the pledge of “unity” is so misused. Either candidate is going to need each and every vote in November to put him/her over the top of McCain and the swiftboating has hardly started - from that side of the aisle anyway.
I’m tired of the race baiting. The wink wink, nod nod and the dog whistles. I hoped for change, remember those sunny days when we had three great choices - or the choices were unclear because we had great candidates - but when I saw it was not going to be possible with Obama and his campaign and that each accusation he tossed out, was not allowed to be answered, I’ve given up!
Maybe time will change things. I just hope that I live to see that day a woman can walk into the WH as President. I think it will be a very long time before that happens if it doesn’t happen now. My mother was born before women were allowed to vote. I knew she would have been so proud to see a viable woman as a candidate, nominee and President. I wished she hadn’t died last year so she could witness history. Now, I’m glad that she didn’t live to see what this campaign has become.
And I didn’t think we could go much lower than Dubya.
Alegre, thank you. It is about time someone stood up to some aspect of the media. I wish we could get you on the MSM - as a special guest on Hardball, for example….you, rock and I am with you totally…susanclare
I’ve been part of the Daily Kos community almost since its inception. It is no longer the diversely rich, tolerant community it once was. The atmosphere has become toxic for all but the most virulent Obama supporters. Sexism is rampant, expletives serve as discussion points, and the hatred directed at Hillary Clinton and her supporters is untenable. If this an example of the “Unity” that Barack Obama inspires, the country is in for an even more rude awakening than we have experienced in the past 24 Jeremiah-Wright-filled hours.
I have also recently decided to move away from DKos for awhile for the very same reasons you describe. Who knows? It’s Kos’s property. He can change it as he wishes, but his website’s tone certainly has changed this election cycle from what it was when I signed up there before Bush won the Electoral College.
I can understand a desperation to have a Democrat win, but I don’t understand the thinking behind the website’s owner (who has bragged for so many years about his “progressive” credentials) choosing to slam one primary candidate over another to such and extent, when both of them admit they are 95% percent in agreement of the issues.
Darndest thing, too, about the Kos love-fest with Obama is that if Obama is “new”, he is only 5% new… not exactly the FDR, JFK, or “walks on water” candidate so many there would have one now believe.
I have to wonder what took so long for this to happen. I am surprised that you did not leave sooner. I am surprised that others aren’t racing to follow you. What do you think happened to all the readers who found ourselves treated to Hill-bashing every day at KOS and other blogs? Did you think we were hypnotized by the Obama-pod people? Or that we curled up and died? No - we left too. We came in droves to fair-minded blogs like this one. We’ve been quietly carving out a niche for ourselves - just like the first blog-readers of yesteryear… We’re here and we want to read what you have to say. Welcome.
DKos has never been on my “must see” list. It’s always been too big and difficult to navigate. It also seemed to have a good many idiotic commenters.
Nevertheless, it’s sad to see an important blog lose so many good participants because of the incivility and blackballing that’s been going on over there.
This Presidential race ought to be a cause for optimism and hope - all of a sudden it looks like a woman or a black person can be a serious candidate for President. Even if you’re a white man that ought to be good news - the potential talent pool is more than double what it used to be. Yet so much of the discourse has been specious charges of racism and sexism that I’m getting to the point where I don’t want to hear about it any more.
Anyway, Alegre, good for you and the others for taking a stand about this.
Hype-Jersey: You ask what took so long. Mostly it was a sense that some of us should stay simply to act as balance and to counter the most untruthful of the attacks on Clinton. At least that was my motive. But there comes a time when you realize that minds are so closed that they can’t be forced open even with reason and civility. And last week, when Markos himself joined the Hate-Hillary brigade, I saw that kos as it once was could not be resurrected.
R.I.P.
And Kos when you read this know that we don’t relish this outcome.
Look in the damn mirror podjo.
I thought I was alone in thinking Markos has gone off the deep end. His blog was supposed to be this community where people could come and support Democrats. Here is what he said when Jake Tapper asked if he endorsed candidates.
“MOULITSAS: We support every Democrat that runs for office. Now, some of them we focus on a lot more and talk about more. You know, we adopt certain races. It’s not an endorsement. It’s a blog of people who are committed to the Democratic Party. So this notion of endorsement, I think, is kind of silly, and it’s an artifact of traditional media where you have to say, ‘I endorse this candidate.’ Well, we technically endorse every single Democrat in the general election. ”
No he still hasn’t endorsed, but what he’s doing now is actually more destructive to his goal. He’s running post after post of anti-Clinton hype, combined with no criticism of Obama. You just cannot do this to liberal regular blog readers. They are too sophisticated to not know when somebody is trying to “sell” them something. It just goes against their nature to be swayed by one-sided commentary. And the thing is, I’ve never seen him address this issue? Surely, some other bloggers have passed along this concern?
Well, I have to wonder what financial incentive he has to back Obama.
I almost posted that over at MyDD. I do wonder about Markos and the other so-called “A” list bloggers.
Well, I have to wonder what financial or career incentive he has to back Obama.
Recommended, dave!
Gave it a four.
I, too, read DailyKos almost from its inception. And I, too, have ‘gone on strike’ since the primary elections started. Somewhere along the way DailyKos seemed to decide to become ‘kingmaker’ because they seem to think ‘what’s best for us’. New politics it ain’t.
If you’ve read Alegre’s diary, you owe it to yourself to read Jeff Lieber’s and DHinMI’s diaries explaining the differences between an online pity party and a strike.
I think Jeff sums it up pretty well:
hibob,
Jeff seems to be denigrating everyone who writes at DK. You know, SOME people put a lot of work into their writing, even at blogs. Maybe not Kos and the other Obamanauts.. but I know some who do.
That is just a bunch of whining used to once again deny what is going on at DailyKos. It gives them a chance to avoid the real issue.,
Many of us have been on strike and walked a pickett line. A person has to be really wrapped up in themselves and have their head up their ass to take personal offense at the use of the word in a variety of other ways. It is just more of the mentality that sees racism in every word someone utters. They see it because they want to and it is ammunition to use against the people who are pointing out the elephant in the room , not because it’s there.
wahhh sexism wahhh misogyny
there are more reasons to dislike someone than their genitalia, people.
I dislike your shallowness. The arrangement of your genitalia has nothing to do with that.
Psssst……
Do not feed the trolls
You know I read where Paul Krugman complained about the same thing with Obama supporters mean-spiritedness. And probably there are some that sense blood and the possibility of his winning the election. Some people dearly want to see him elected for purely racial reasons, which is NOT the right reason. If he does win the nomination let’s hope it’s because he’s the better of the two Democratic candidates, NOT because he’s black.
THAT SAID, I STRONGLY suspect that A LOT of the admittedly childish infighting going on between Obama and Hillery is being instigated and eagerly stoked by Rove and his henchmen. I wish people would wake up to that probability and stop playing into their hands.
Ugh. You had me then you lost me when you went on and on and on screeching like a banshee. I don’t read Kos and don’t care. The reason people who support Obama hate Clinton is because she’s a hypocrite and a whore (in the political sense). They see a conniving, spiteful, vindictive, spoiled political creature who feels entitled to the presidency by virtual ordination.
I see a pathetic, unstable, over-ambitious, war mongering ex-president’s wife trying to overcome the humiliation she endured when her husband got his dick sucked by a young intern.
Obama’s no peach either: he needs to re-unite his balls with his scrotum and tell the Israeli lobby to go fuck themselves.
Here you are destroying the Dummycratic party as effectively as the Repugnantcans are by nominating that mental giant McCain. I say good! Good, god damn it, good!
A pox on both your god damn war mongering houses!
Indeed thee are vengeful fellow Mr. A. I’d say you need immediate professional help.
Either that or start taking your meds. Without them you tend to be a trifle overheated in you rhetorical organs, pal.
Your critique falls flat due to its total lack of content, intelligence, or humor.
My condolences to your dear mother for having failed in your rearing.
Brilliant!!!
Attack this person’s mother….
Bloody fucking BRILLIANT
And funny….
And intelligent…
Dude, you’ve got it all.
Truly we sit at the feet of the master.
What purpose does this serve. Dissect or attack the comment, opinion, facts. Not the person
Road Kill From Highway 51
troll on….
MarkL-
Jeff wasn’t writing about the difference in the relative quality of the work between unpaid bloggers (well, maybe one unpaid blogger) and paid writers. He was talking about the relative importance of a blog to someone who writes without compensation and comparing it to the relative importance of the job that pays your health insurance. He was writing about the difference between an unpaid blogger saying they are going on quote -strike- unquote, who faces little or no consequences when they aren’t at the computer, and someone facing unemployment and bankruptcy because they have actually gone on an actual strike against their actual employer.
Alegre should have used the word that fits:
Boycott: To abstain from or act together in abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with as an expression of protest or disfavor or as a means of coercion.
Awwww, looks like someone is upset that the Ron Paul blimp won’t be flying over his house after all.
Try harder little bongwater drinker!
It is weird to go to sites like TPM, HuffPost, WashMonthly, and DKos and find them centers for all things to Hate Hillary about. That position really took on momentum when Hillary did so well on Super Tuesday. Once Hillary won 3 of 4 on March 4th, then you could see all hell break loose on those four sites, unleashing a constant stream of irrational anti-Hillary posts every day since.
At least I can rely on Larry Johnson’s No Quarter and Taylor Marsh for the alternate view. And I’ve checked — no one is smarter online than Larry, even when I disagree with the man.
I’m an Obama supporter, but I quit reading DailyKos some time ago because I couldn’t stomach the interparty vitriol over there.
Blurgh. I meant intRAparty vitriol.
Huffpo, Crooks and Liars, and recently Buzzflash… All their pieces seem to be chosen to be Hillary hit-pieces. And the tsunami seems to be increasing. I’m running out of unbiassed blogs to go to. And I’m kinda getting suspicious… I can almost smell money behind all this.
Good point. Just how IS Obama spending his huge warchest? His 2:1 outspending of Hillary in Traditional Media isn’t working too well. Paying “placement” premiums on the internets, perhaps?
I don’t know that it is money…but a frightening political machine. This is what scares me about the Obama campaign. We have a candidate(Obama) who has played the middle of the road “fence sitting” techniques like no one I have ever witnessed. The Obama spin machine then turns his campaign into a “hope and change” mantra that is repeated until the cows come home.
I hope Obama and Clinton reign this destructive in fighting in and get back to debating and talking about real issues. Health care, Iraq, education, Iran, the Israeli Palestinian conflict (no one has touched this issue). Rather than on alleged racist remarks, what church Obama goes to etc.
Hi, Alegre, you are joining our strike. Welcome. Myself and many others have left the orange community in droves for the same reason. As usual, you put it in the most cogent terms. In a way, I worried that while you continued to post there, you were legitimizing what has become a wholly partisan and no longer credible site. I always looked to dKos for some diarist or commenter to cut through the rhetoric and expose the distortions in the media, the latest senate speech or magazine article. Then I found that the majority of writers (of those who remain) were actively promoting baseless spin and some obviously false information. There’s nothing wrong with cheerleading but promoting misinformation is just wrong.
The rampant Hillary-bashing, abandonment of dialog, questioning, and reasonable argument, and the wholesale promotion and apologia for all things Obama drove me away. A general sexist attitude has been at the DailyObama for a very long time, and I could mostly ignore it. But when it’s spitefully directed at one of our major political candidates by front-pagers - that was over the line for me a few months ago. The self-monitoring feature isn’t working at the site due to mob mentality. The administrators clearly condone the behavior or it wouldn’t be allowed to replace what used to be a fine public forum for Democrats.
It’s really sad - I miss the community so much. The ability to post to so many people, the variety of subjects, the personal stories (like the hiring of BinPM). Now we are in the diaspora.
The Diaspora? Not so. Think of it more as a short journey (or even a long trek) from one oasis to another.
The weakness I see in many blogs I’m now exposing myself to is the software’s inability to allow personalized feedback in the form of ratings applause for a particularly brilliant comment, or a LOL moment, or a comment that so perfectly reflects your own personal view… you want the author to know you wish you’d written it yourself.
The ratings “gimmick” is a strong, addictive hook of DKos, not to be overlooked by aspiring website moderators.
The genius of DKos’s first vision of a political website is that anyone could have and develop their own, little, “My Political Space” sub-site with links and everything you could email your family and friends.
Many of the newer sites don’t have more sophisticated software (expensive, I understand) and you feel like you are just a little blurb now at the end of a long line running through the parting of a large sea. You’re not. And we’re not.
Hang on. Better times ‘acoming from all these new, more level-headed, webmasters to come.
What a great idea, a strike! I admire people’s courage in refusing to write for some of these so called progressive places that have become nothing more then Hillary bashing sites. Several weeks ago, I left Dkos, Buzzflash, MoveOn.org, and I wasn’t even a writer. But I used to visit those sites daily and read everything. It made me literally sick to watch them sink into a pool of hatred. They stopped making any effort to serve the truth. Buzzflash really made me ill, they used to link to all sorts of stories. Now they’ve plastered themselves with nothing but anti-Hillary rants and they’ve even run a headline implying that they need donations because they’re being destroyed by Hillary. That’s the implication anyway. Translated it means so many people have become disgusted with their bias reporting and blatent sexism, that we’ve withdrawn our financial support.
I know many progressive blogs have been dropped on their head, because last night I found myself watching Fox news to try and get some information. Lord help me, that’s desperation. When the Faux’s start sounding fair and balenced, all is lost.
Know what you mean about BuzzFlash. I used to post a letter in the mailbag nearly every day. I remonstrated with what I perceived as their anti-Hillary bias once, twice, and third time and then I left. I won’t go back. People either have integrity or not. They are either interested in fair play or they are not. They are either hypocrites or they are not.
alegre is a better person than I in that she indicates she can forgive and forget. I can’t and I won’t. Once you find out someone is willing to lie and cheat in furtherance of their objective then how can you ever trust them again?
I can understand the sad fact that the “youth vote” was only 11 or 12 years old when Bill Clinton was President. They are doing a fine job of re-educating these young people in terms that Karl Rove would be proud of. But the adults should know better, especially the African American community. They certainly KNOW that the Clintons are not in any form racist and they vote against their own self interests. The prosperity we gained in the Clinton years has been re-written by the Republicans again just as they did for Reagan. How sad that some progressives are helping them.
Good points.
Just wonderful how successful everyone has been painting Hillary as the wicked stepmother, the witch of the west and anything and everything including the anti-Christ. Job well done.
Now we shall move on to Obama as his temple walls crumble as the rats on the ship of fools with him sing his praises. He told you “Bamboozled, Hoodwinked” - that’s theme and you’ve all been had!
Okey Doke?
He’s lucky in one sense that the “youngsters” have no concept of history and as the wool is pulled politely and in candence over their eyes, they have not a clue that it was two women who chanted, “We are the change that we have waited for” many years ago.
Yes, we are. But it’s more of the same slick and dirty politics. Giving up PAC money just for the election, Rezko and he in each other’s pockets - do you have any idea how those people were living in foreclosed properties with no heat or running water in Obama’s district while he whored for more money for Rezko? How ’bout his friend Ayers - or don’t we want to remember the Weather Underground? The “church” mess has been out there for months and months. How ’bout his switch with the AP photo the nite before the Mississippi vote? It was Hillary’s fault but it had appeared weeks before …
Welcome to 4 more years. HIS economic advisors are going to bring some sense and stability to the economy? Whoa!
He is a chameleon - plain and simple sending his surrogates out to do his dirty work, including his wife, while he stays about the frey. There’s this bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you too!
Like him/dislike him; vote for him/don’t. But look at the health care, look at the social secuirty, look at the LNCB, look at his economic advisors, We all all the same, right? Under one big tent, right? Except it is that some are more equal than others - and if you have cleavage or are woman, you know your place. Leave like a lady, Hillary! Do the right thing - hand it to him just like he scrubbed the books in Chicago to win the State senate seat. That’s Obama’s status quo.
I think he even managed to out-Rove Rove!
I think Axelrod had a lot to do with the venom coming from Obama’s camp. Remember Farraro said she had dealt with Axelrod before? I am so glad she didn’t back down from her statements because it made the media finally acknowedge the Wright tapes and question Obama. I hope it does some good. The media is totally corrupt. The people at Kos probably go to church with Obama and are also now totally corrupt.
You are so right–I used to go regularly to Daily Kos, Huffington Post, and some other sites but have done so less and less for precisely the reasons you and the comments above spell out. The one-sided pro-Obama fanatics have completely taken over. And much the same can be observed when you read the comments on other online sites, such as the Washington Post and other mainstream media.
I just saw comments on the Huffington Post site blaming the Clinton camp for revelations about Obama’s spiritual adviser.
But apart from the prominent blogs, the mainstream media do the same thing: They highlight Ferraro’s remarks starting with headlines but are either silent about or minimize Reverend Wright’s racist sermons.
This bias is typical for this campaign season. For example, after Representative Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus and Clinton supporter, told National Public Radio’s All Things Considered that “some CBC members who support Hillary Clinton have received threats…,” the mainstream media did not pick up on this (on this, see: http://www.reflectivepundit.com/reflectivepundit/2008/02/what-are-super.html#more
Bullshit. You’re playing right into the right-wingers’ hands.
They’re doing a “heckuva job” in getting us to bitch at each other, instead of them.
Who gives a fuck if somebody you’ve never even met (and never will) holds an opinion that you don’t like? Grow the fuck up! Their are WAY bigger issues at stake (like the survival of humanity and every other species on the planet).
If you really support the Democrats, support your candidate, and, if they don’t win, get behind the party’s other candidate!
Would you REALLY rather help get Boosch 2 elected just out of spite and wounded personal pride?!?
don’t kid yourself people will do this. Vote for McCain out of spite. Rove and others know this.
sic “THERE are”
I have not spent a great deal of time over at Daily Kos for a long time. While I really appreciate what Susan and Larry do here at No Quarter Usa some of that abusiveness with folks who have different opinions was slipping onto this site also.
Just saying something to watch out for.
I have been thinking for the last month that this Obama/Clinton in fighting will flow over to the 2008 election. People do not just “get over it” as Susan has stated at this site. This “type” of infighting undermines what most of us are after.
Great diary, Alegre. The fact that you’re on the rec list with such a diary shows how many Kossaks are cowed into silence by the bigmouths. Congratulations. I just hope that some of the more virulent members won’t follow you to Mydd or Talk left just to badger you. I wonder if Kos will ban all those who supported your diary. Ha. He won’t do it. $$$$
You’ve taken a stand and should be very proud of the results.
Allegre as you have said let’s hope that the folks participating in the so-called “progressive” blogosphere can come together in the fall. Although from what I am hearing and witnessing in mainstream U.S.A. (my middle class card carrying union family) Obama and Clinton are all ready losing votes due to the tacky (monster, race, real estate scandals etc) in fighting that is taking place.
Susan and others have said people should just “get over it”. Let’s be honest people don’t just “get over it”.
Alegre,
I was reading some of the comments at The Atlantic blog, and aye, can you imagine being married to some of those Obama supporters?
The irrational, passive aggressive behavior, the absolute refusal to examine the issues and complaints against them as having some legitimacy, the refusal to acknowledge ANY wrongdoing, or any fact, it felt as if I was listening to a group of spoiled four year olds, the level of psychological aberration so apparent.
I figure some are just republican trolls trying to disrupt the community, but others, wow, don’t they see what is happening to them, how they are being destroyed, and USED, for their blind, irrational devotion to Obama?
They remind me of abused women, refusing to admit the men they are with are messed in the head: denial, denial denial…
I agree we should all be willing to read the serious questions brought up by the Obama Rezko connection. In that same frame of mind one should be willing to closely examine what Iaea Weapons INspector has said about Senator Clinton knowing in the late 90’s and in 2002 that Saddam Hussein did not have WMD’s. This is a very serious issue.
Seymour Hersh and Scott Ritter on Iraq, WMDs and the Role of the Clinton Administration in the 1990s
http://www.democracynow.org/2005/10/21/seymour_hersh_and_scott_ritter_on
This is really worth listening to if you have an open mind about the Clintons.
October 21, 2005
Ritter10-21
Scott Ritter on the Untold Story of the Intelligence Conspiracy to Undermine the UN and Overthrow Saddam Hussein
http://www.democracynow.org/2005/10/21/scott_ritter_on_the_untold_story
This is also a great interview with Scott Ritter on the Clintons, Iraq and WMD’s
http://www.truthdig.com/interview/item/20070320_scott_ritter_robert_scheer/
Like I said, a pox on all their war mongering houses, D & R alike (and they are, in fact, all alike).
Clinton is as much an opportunistic war monger as her husband was and either McCain or Obama will be.
THEY ARE ALL WHORES WHO WILL KOWTOW TO THE IDEOLOGY OF ENDLESS WAR AND AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM.
This is no change! A change in name, and maybe gender or skin color, but the net effect will be business as usual, i.e. the continuing decline of America as you fools bicker over irrelevant minutae.
Funny, I read this article today about the Chinese arming the Africans, from whom they are currently importing oil.
Now, let’s see, you have massive poverty, frequent government turnovers which are suspect to American and Russian interference.
Good idea selling all those guns to politically unstable areas upon which you’ve built your energy infrastructure, without which your country’s developing economy would DIE, isn’t it?
My gosh, it’s almost Rumsfeld in it’s stupidity.
Well, Kathleen, if you can show me Clinton took money from men who have direct terrorist links, as well as both hands firmly in the Chicago Bhagdad corruption ring, just like Obama, I’ll look.
Other than that, you appear to be trolling, trying to insert irrelevant facts, hoping someone will bite.
It’s old stuff.
Obama becomes more and more irrelevant everyday. He looks befuddled, and all he does is lie,now, to cover his ass, and not even as well as Bush.
So sad.
Here we go folks. Middle America. It is shocking that a Republican candidate could come close to Obama and Clinton after the destructive policies of the Bush administration and a Republican controlled congress. The fact that it could even be close is troubling.
March 13, 2008, 12:09 pm
Poll Puts McCain Ahead of Clinton and Obama in Pennsylvania
Elizabeth Holmes reports on the presidential race.
Could the mudslinging between Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in Pennsylvania help Sen. John McCain?
A new poll gives McCain,the presumptive Republican nominee, a lead over both his Democratic opponents in the Keystone State, which holds its primary on April 22. When survey respondents were asked if they would choose McCain or Clinton in the general election, 48% opted for McCain versus 42% for Clinton. A match-up between McCain and Obama was closer, with McCain receiving 47% and Obama at 44%.
Even though the poll puts McCain ahead of Obama, his campaign sent the numbers to the media with the subject: “Obama outperforms Clinton against McCain.”
But McCain isn’t resting on his laurels. The Arizona senator is headed to Pennsylvania for a fund-raiser tonight in Philadelphia and a town hall meeting Friday morning in Springfield, Pa. McCain recognizes the need to work for attention — acknowledging Wednesday that the constant media focus on Obama and Clinton keeps his name out of the headlines.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/03/13/poll-puts-mccain-ahead-of-clin
ton-and-obama-in-pennsylvania/
Here is the link
March 13, 2008, 12:09 pm
Poll Puts McCain Ahead of Clinton and Obama in Pennsylvania
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/03/13/poll-puts-mccain-ahead-of-clinton-and-obama-in-pennsylvania/
Problem is that for some reason lots of left-leaning people REALLY LIKE to jump on the latest political fad that may come along then RUN with it without having done any actual THINKING about the implications of their decision. Nader is one example. Another is Ron Paul. Despite the fact that the guy openly states that he is a devout Reagan Republican and his voting record is a horrible monument for far-right politics, still he was able to convince lots and lots of people to support him to the tune of $20,000,000 in donations, mostly from alredy strapped left-leaning people. It’s this sort of mob-mentality where they all want to be A PART OF THE ACTION! Most of these people don’t really care about issues such as the environment or inequality they just want to do what everyone else is doing in the trendy moment for the rush they get being part of a movement. If the mob moves off in another direction they all follow. Rove’s Divide & Conquer strategy is just so easy he must be thinking. It’s disgusting.
That said, not everyone is like that, thank goodness. The best thing that Hillary and Obama can do right now is to bury the bloody hatchet - but not in each other’s backs. All they are doing is providing an amusing sideshow for vile Rethugs who will be using the soundbites to bolster McCain’s campaign.
Left leaning has nothing to do with it.
What are neocons, but Obama right, and the right wing couldn’t embrace Bush, Cheney, and Feith, all those morons, quickly enough.
I made the point the democrats are to Obama what the RNC is to Iraq — both in bubbles, neither willing, or even ABLE, to confront the truth of the mess they made.
So spare me all this talk of left this, or left that, you’re simply trying to appear fair minded, while shilling for the republican trash, and wimpy, simple minded trash it is.
IMO, Kos and his supporters couldnt come up with a solution for Iraq, and neither can the right, you’re both blowing farts out your ass.
Now tell me why torture is an effective tool in fighting the war on terror, again?…
This is not new, but perhaps you started to notice once you found yourself outside of the echo chamber? For me, it was the pie fight — not the ads, but the generally misogynist tone of the “debate.” The vitriolic mob I feel is a bigger threat to progressivism right now than the discredited wingnuts.
How ironic that you catch all this from Obama partisans. Maybe they should drink some of his “new politics” tea. Strident rhetoric is soooo yesterday.
(Me? I’m an Obama supporter myself, though if she won the nomination I would vote for her, of course.)
I really really wish the Edwards had stayed in!
Can you imagine Elizabeth Edwards saying of Bill Clinton, after making clawing motions with her hands “I want to tear his eyes out,”?
We would think she was batshit, wouldn’t we?
Hear, hear. The dems are shredding from within with the full support of the once-espected Kos, Buzzflash, Crooks&Liars and even the ex-brillian now fawning Obamatron Keith Olbermann.
I have sadly predicted the John McCain victory on my own blog due to the suicide wish of the Dem party. It must be Reps’ wet dream to see this huge implosion.
Check out also one of the few clearminded blogs such as:
http://www.bartcop.com/
I used to read KOS daily, as well as Huffpo TPM, Americablog, and others. I’ve long stopped giving them any clicks. Why read when it is nothing but abuse. I won’t be going back either, after what I have seen exposed. And now even FDL, which I like a lot, has become a shrine to all things Obama and the comments one screed against Hillary after another.
Besides Hillary and Obamas growing up, the best thing that left leaning blogs can and should do NOW which would help out a lot is to block divisive, abusive posters. I’d bet that, besides Rovians who are in all probability exploiting this mess for all it’s worth a lot of it is actually coming from a relatively few people combative individuals on the left who are simply spamming the blogs for their candidate.
There’s still time to mend fences.
Yeah, that’s the true American solution: censorship!
Ugh.
Is it any wonder?
Right on, Alegre. I just read your diary at MyDD. I have cut back my reading Dkos and many other blogs that have just become so anti-Hillary and irrational. I have never seen it so bad at Dkos, not even 2004 was this bad. I have removed links to TPM, Americablog, Huffpo, Booman, and a few others. Talk Left, Taylor Marsh, The Left Coaster and here are the blogs I frequent most now, along with Docudharma. I was glad to find your diaries here. Your diaries convinced me to vote for Hillary in the primary and send her donations.
I will be joining your strike.
By the way, I consider suspect ANYONE who advises everybody to stay away from blogs on the left because of this episode. That’s EXACTLY what the Rethugs would like. Just MSM and their distorted, propagandistic spin. Just stay away from the partisan posts until blog modertors clean it up. But walk out.
And IMO they’re starting to smear all progressives with Kos, like they will the democrats with Obama.
I’ve been seeing the same repeat point in regard to Kos, ie “I expected better from a progressive” so thanks a lot boys.
The hardest choice that confronts Obama supporters is whether to sing their messianic praise of Obamamessiah at Daily Kos or barackobama.com. Decisions, decisions. Of course, maybe they will get lonely for us and start trying to take over mydd.
But DON’T walk out!
@#$%
As I am not a diarist but only a commenter at dKos, I can only half imagine how you felt.
I stopped reading at dKos about a week ago because the cult-like atmosphere was really getting to me. I had stopped commenting weeks ago so that my trusted user status is history.
Truly, I am an Edwards Democrat who vowed to vote for the Democratic candidate for President. But the bias, mysogyny, and vitriol is too much and I am in a quandry what to do if Clinton is not the Democratic candidate.
Like you, Alegre, I don’t plan to return to dKos until sanity returns.
It’s time we take a stand. It’s OK to support different candidate. But it’s not OK to attack and dehumanized the supporters of the opponent candidate. DailyKos has allowed the abusive behavior to go uncheck, and it has become a norm.
When Obama supporters said that the poor people in Ohio didn’t have enough food so their brains lacked oxygen and hence they voted for Hillary, I knew that there is no rhyme nor reason left at DailyKos.
It is time to take a stand. This is bigger the the candidates, it’s about hatred, misogyny, and abusive behavior. No matter who wins the election, some ugliness has been exposed and you can’t just sweep it back under the rug and pretend it isn’t there.
I feel somewhat betrayed by places like Dkos. Like they have let people down. This is no differant then a blog allowing a great deal of homophobia to go on. Or racism. You expect better from progressives, you expect some integrity, some standards.
,
Kos was never a progressive, he was, to me, a liar.
He claimed to be a democrat, but was anti choice, and it was my red flag, but given his further support of misogyny, esp toward Clinton, it’s apparent the guy has issues with women, and some self hate, whether he realizes it, or not.
Apparently, some in the black community feel Kos is racist, too, I guess he still has a lot of the Reagan Republican left in him.
Truthfully.
Kos, and daily kos, adopted the label progressive, they are not, they are astroturf, boys desperate to be players, looking for personal validation, respect, and money.
But DKos is a strainer of sorts, those with the courage and intellect to understand what was happening left, including a number of men, and that’s a very good sign.
Kos lack of judgement, though, in not understanding how he, and Obama were, and are, being played, is surprising, though, to me.
Realistically, understanding the implications of the things Obama has done, and that wife, and goofy preacher, and all the little terrorist cliques about him, why did that group of stupid democrats think he was a viable candidate?
He stinks to hell, the democratic DNC leaders thought the republicans wouldn’t exploit Obama’s connections?
They are why democrats don’t win elections — Kerry, Dean, Kennedy, Pelosi, every idiot behind Obama played a part in every lost democratic presidential election.
Period.
You have a point about Kos. He never really was a progressive. But I guess it’s watching him and people posting at his site engage in the same behavior they have been complaining about for several years, that blows me away.
Please stop attributing the comments of a few blog posters to the entirety of a candidates supporters. This is the classic tactic used to vilify Muslims in this country and around the world. It is OK to take issue with an individual or even a site which facilitates bigoted and hateful speech but the blanket generalizations here on this post go as far as many of the comments for which they are written.
In the interests of full disclosure, I was a HRC supporter until her actions drove me to support BHO. At the beginning of this election, I felt that we had three fantastic candidates, I now believe we only have one.
The abusive behavior at DailyKos is from the majority group of people. It may not be the entirety of all Obama supporters. But it was a large enough group that make the atmosphere hostile toward any reason discussion.
As for disclosure, I am a HRC supporter who thought that I could support Obama in GE. But his hypocrisy has forced me to conclude that there is only one candidate left that deserved to be DEM nominee and POTUS, HRC. She must win.
What Obama hipocracy are you referencing exactly? When the last week was dominated by a Clinton surrogate using racism to undermine Obama. And Clinton herself undermines the man who she admits is the likely Dem nominee with her slants with regards to stating that he has not passed some imaginary Commander-in-Chief threshold. These are classic Rovian mud-slinging techniques.
I find it rather hard to swallow that Clinton supporters are outraged at Obama and call him a hypocrate under these circumstances, or they are SOOOO offended by some name-calling on some DKos message boards…
Yes, this is a classical logical fallacy:
see: Hasty Generalization
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/hasty-generalization.html
Description of Hasty Generalization
This fallacy is committed when a person draws a conclusion about a population based on a sample that is not large enough. It has the following form:
Sample S, which is too small, is taken from population P.
Conclusion C is drawn about Population P based on S.
The person committing the fallacy is misusing the following type of reasoning, which is known variously as Inductive Generalization, Generalization, and Statistical Generalization:
X% of all observed A’s are B’’s.
Therefore X% of all A’s are Bs.
The fallacy is committed when not enough A’s are observed to warrant the conclusion. If enough A’s are observed then the reasoning is not fallacious.
I was a HRC supporter until her actions drove me to support BHO.
What actions?
please explain the use of the word “drove”
The hypocrisy among these Kos “strikers” is getting so thick you could cut it with a knife! Some of the same people complaining about “Hill-bashing” and “Hillary hate” use terms like “Obamabots” and “Obamamaoists” in the very same posts. The lack of self-awareness is utterly comical.
I’m an Obama supporter, but I’ll vote for Clinton if she’s the nominee. Yet I’ve been hearing from a lot of Clinton supporters in these parts that they’d rather see McCain elected than vote for Obama. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
By the way, in case someone wants to argue that I’m defending Daily Kos, don’t even bother. I’ve never been a fan of DK, mostly because group blogs are boring.
They question your ability to think clearly, and they make their argument. You can’t make yours. You make a statement, and expect the reader to fill int the blanks, an old PR trick. Or, maybe that IS how you think, which would explain a lot.
OTOH, I think you’d have a point if they mentioned Obama’s race, they don’t.
There is a significant difference.
I am also a striking Clinton blogger. I have no doubt that there a few Clinton bloggers that make critical comments about Senator Obama, myself among them. What has pushed me over the edge about Daily Kos is the attacks against the Clinton bloggers. In the week leading up to the strike, I was called a Republican, a sheep, a Clinton telemarketer, a fucking liar, a Republican troll, and more. In a diary last weekend, there were two Obama supporters who posted more than twenty comments personally attacking ME.
This does not include the diaries that race to the top of the rec list that accuse Hillary Clinton of racism, aiding and abetting John McCain, using Karl Rove tactics, and running as Republican. Some of the things I saw written about her in comments is not appropriate to quote.
What has happened at Daily Kos is sad, but it is not Alegre’s fault, nor the fault of the dozens of Clinton bloggers who have joined in this effort. It is a direct result of the failure of the administrators to maintain a civil tone. Indeed, Kos himself help fan the racial tensions when he accused Hillary Clinton of darkening pictures of Obama in her 3am ad to make him look blacker, an accusation that has been debunked by Factcheck.org.
The bitterness in the netroots cannot be blamed on the Clinton bloggers, who admitted remain a minority. We have been incessantly maligned and belittled and we aren’t going to take it any longer, most especially not from people supporting a candidate who claims to embrace “new politics.”
Isn’t this a skosh absurd?
It’s an infinity of mirrors.
Plato’s cave with plasma TV.
Fugazi rides again, GI.
They’ll need us at kos when the nom goes to HRC. I’ll try not to be to smug, but it will be hard!
[...] a longtime Daily Kos diarist, has called for a writers strike at the world’s largest supposedly-Progressive blog site, due to what she says has become a “hostile [...]
Do you plan on coming back to DailyKos when Barack Obama becomes the Democratic nominee or will you babies take your ball and go home?
Maybe if HRC ran a positive campaign we could respect her. But since she wants to bloody Obama while stepping over his mangled remains on the way to the nomination, we will fight back. Her campaign would make Karl Rove blush.
I hope we can come together when Barack wins the nom.
Peace.
I suspect that a lot of the abusive posts are being written by Republicans pretending to be either a supporter of one side or the other. They’re laughing about how easy it is to get under the left’s skin and to divide them. This is exactly the kind of juvenile dirty trick that Rove and his ilk are infamous for.
Just don’t play their game. Stop the attacks, kick out the abusive posters, return to balance and HRC/BHO grow up. There, problem solved.
“I suspect that a lot of the abusive posts are being written by Republicans”
Or perhaps they lack a life
This is just terrific! We are officially destroying our Party because Hillary has been waging a “Republican” campaign. I’ve tried to not get angry with what’s coming out of the Hillary campaign, but saying John McCain was more qualified to be President than Barack Obama was the straw that broke my neutrality. I’m not going to bash and say bad things, but in my opinion Barack Obama is the candidate that has the best chance of beating John McCain, and at the same time raise this country out of it’s bickering, life sucking ugly life. I read many different Blogs and news items. I have noticed that every time one of Hillary’s surrogates makes a negative remark about Obama, he has to reply. This is where it started, and I hope that it is ended soon. Why has Hillary resorted to inuendos against Obama? Doesn’t she realize that she has an encyclopedia of damaging past activities that could be turned on her? Obama has not referred to Whitewater, to the Blue Dress, to the failure in her health insurance adventures. He’s trying to stick to issues, but keeps getting dragged down in responding to one of Hillary’s followers’ ill advised remarks. In my 50 years of voting I have never been so angry at my own Party. Maybe during the late 60’s, but not since then.
So Hillary has a blue dress?
Welcome to Stalingrad, Obama Worshiper
give thanx for your stand.
the hundreds of new posters who have destroyed dailykos and DU remind me of the LGF’s most putrid posters. the sites are no long recognizable. their agenda matches closely with drudge and the corpmedia in general.
huffpost, tpm, rawstory also not worth a visit any more. how amazing!
the corpmedia chose to frame the dem race as between clinton and obama, locking out the other contenders.
what a shame.
The New boss, same as the old boss, is a tune I sure hope I won’t be singing in the years to come.
Kos has every right to support whom he wants to win in these primaries, however, he risks the destruction of the very thing he created by playing favorites in his dissemination of information. That is not democratic, and is equally Orwellian as the Bush administration he rails against.
I would urge Kos to reconsider his actions and make corrections to keep equality on his board, but as I said, it is his board, and his to feed or starve.
As a Political cartoonist who is more radical than most in a desire for progressive change find similar discrimination on many boards who ignore my work and pretend I am not out there and won’t ad links to my work among other political cartoonists, even though I am a professional.
see my work and make up your own mind.
http://www.whatnowtoons.com
cartoons for the coming progressive age.
I’d like someone to explain to me why they favor Clinton over Obama. You can do so by contacting me on my AIM Her0savestheday
Do y’all need a tissue? Because you are making me sad with your patheticness (go Colbert!)
In Support of the Kos Boycott…
Diarists at Kos—which I admit I rarely look at—who support Hillary Clinton have decided that enough’s enough. Good for them. It’s about time Clinton supporters start speaking up against the abuse and insults of the Hillary-hating O-bot contingent…
The Media …
by Damozel and D. Cupples| We’ve been worried about this for weeks — a possible backlash from Hillary Clinton’s supporters against pro-Obama (anti-Hillary) media outlets and the passive-aggressive bashing of Hillary that appears to be approved by th…
[...] such writer, who goes by the pen-name Alegre, is now “on strike:” I’ve been posting at DailyKos for nearly 4 years now and started writing diaries in [...]
Well, as my own readers know, I’m no Hillary Clinton fan. Since 1992, my attitude toward her has veered between indifference and antipathy. But the Kossacks have helped to transform this one-time Obama-voter into a reluctant Hillary supporter.
Kos still refuses to apologize for that damnable lie about the “darkened” video of Obama. A friend of mine happens to be a professional video editor, and he agreed with my assessment that the codec darkened the video. As he pointed out, everything in the online version of that ad was dark — including Hillary and the sleeping child. The shot of Obama was the lightest image in the show!
By the way, no-one denies that Obama aide Jesse Jackson Jr. gave this warning to black congressman Emanuel Cleaver (a Clinton supporter):
“Do you want to go down in history as the one to prevent a black from winning the White House?”
Pure racism, that. Can you imagine the outcry if a Hillary Clinton aide told a congressperson: “Do you want to go down in history as the one who helped a black win the White House?”
And to the person out there sputtering “But…you can’t compare…”, I have this reply:
Yes I can!
[...] No Quarter - CrossPost Writers Strike at DailyKos [...]
Hillary’s camp is pushing the strike, right?
Any strategy to win. Divide and conquer, even if it destroys the party. I’m sure glad Obama stays out of that game.
Misogyny? Hillary said in the debate, that as President she would give a special perspective that only women have.
Can you imagine the outcry if Obama stated he would give the “special perspective” that only Blacks have?
If there is any misogyny here, it’s what Clinton brings onto herself.
This race is about character. Character counts. Her idea of attacking through third parties, while trying to be “Ms. Nice Guy” is still divisive.
And you have to be a fool to think the Hillary isn’t behind the “strike” at DailyKos.
Please get over yourselves. Hillary doesn’t give a rat’s ass about Daily Kos. It has no significance in itself, though many members of the Democratic Establishment share the same short-sighted, idiotic attitudes. The strike is a result of longtime members being made to feel unwelcome by a bunch of bloggers wih an inflated sense of self-importance.
Yes, I can imagine the response if Obama said that, like anythng else he says the commentators would get in their shrines and worship him as usual.
And if you think that Clinton and uh, all other Democratic women (funny, but lots of them take misogyny badly even if assured “I didn’t mean you, you’re the exception”) bring the teaming mass of misogyny directed at them on themelves, you keep telling yourself that as you watch McCain’s inauguration. An awful lot of men and women think gross sexism IS divisive, oddly enough, rather than hip, fun, and well deserved so good thing Democrats don’t need women and nonsexist men’s votes.
McCain isn’t about to be elected. Have you seen the voter turnout numbers?
Your comments are completely ignorant of facts. Do you listen only to MSM?
People should be judged as people. Democratic women should not apply to misogyny when they are seeking equality. Those that don’t do well in elections.
Hillary is not doing well. It is about time for her defenders to get off the “She’s only a woman” argument, and realize she doesn’t have the integrity we need for the next President who will set the tone for future generations.
Oh good god. You realize it’s march, correct? Do you really think that the American people will vote for Obama after they’ve heard Wright’s speeches everyday for 9 months? Give me a break. You need every damn vote you can get, and you’re alienating the only supporters you can actually count on. No wonder the blogosphere has such a magnificent record of success.
If I listened only to MSM, wouldn’t I bet worshipping Obama or making fun of “ugly old c$%^&” who care about dull old policy?
Yes, Democratic women must realize that pervasive gender based bigotry is the price they pay for being generously “allowed” to comprise the majority of Democratic voters. Without Democratic women, Democrats would not win one election, anywhere, anytime. So tell them to screw off and know their place. Mccain will never win, just cuz. We don’t need no voters and organization, we got blogging.
Ah yes, the “she’s only a woman argument.” I believe you eman the “Obama’s got zero qualifications to be President but dude the only qualified candidate’s a Gross chick” argument. Senator Clinton lost the Alaska primary yes, but other tahn that’s she’s won just about every state that matters, more popular votes, and she’d have more delegates if Mr. Integrity weren’t disenfranchising 2 of teh largest states in teh country. I know it’s not good enough, because of her unfortunate gender she’s required to colonize the Solar Syatem. But, with teh entire establishment coronating a Bushesque empty suit who stammers when asked about policy, blinks when asked what’s accomplished, and thinks “integrity” means only leting the slumlord buy a portion of his house, it’s good enough. If Obama’s incomptence, lack of accomplishment, intellectual incuriosity and sleaze are going to set the tone for future generations, why not just ask W. to stay on a VP and really get the point across? And let’s teach our daughters to study hard, because even though we don’t want them as leaders they’ll have to bail out the stupid frat boys who are awesome just cuz, dude.
No one is, that’s your perception.
Do you understand?
You strike me as not very bright.
Therefore, you would make a wonderful adjunct to Obama’s campaign crew…
How does one call a stupid fish?
One says “identity politics…”
hehehehe
I would like to vote for the most malleable.
Which one is that?
Ah, yes…
The Goat With A Thousand Young.
-The Royal Pant
Director of Protocol - GOO08
Let’s Be GREAT in ‘08!
Alegre, Thank you very much. It is about time someone stood up and speak up. I wish I can write like you can.Please continue to speak up for Hillary. She is able and she is kind. We need her in White House to fix this country in this time. Gratefully.
[...] a longtime Daily Kos diarist, has called for a writers strike at the world’s largest supposedly-Progressive blog site, due to what she says has become a [...]
Strangely, Obama supporters are the ones being called cult members. Clinton is the one inferring that McCain would be a better CiC than Obama.
Go figure that it’s Obama’s fault for bringing the level of discourse down.
Since Obama has a much larger percentage of the graduated educated Democratic voting population, I’m glad to know that with all my degrees and my work overseas, that only the well-educated and the young among the Democratic population are susceptible to being brain-washed according to HRC supporters.
See ya’ll at the CA State Convention, but there’s a very good chance HRC will not get my vote in the fall (thanks to the @#$@ that has happened in the last few weeks).
And in behalf of America, Regenman, we’d like to say thank you, and all praise god for your intellect and troll abilities, the mediocre and the stupid boring us all with an obtuseness that leaves the truly educated astounded.
Ever see Dick Cheney’s tools try to figure out asymmetric war?
They’re highly educated, too.
You guys should talk, go troll the white house, they’re the only ones stupid enough to bite.
Shithead.
WAY TO GO ALEGRE, you made the MSNBC news “BLOGGERS STRIKE!!! WOHOO WORDS MATTER!
I have been boycotting DKoS for sometime as well. My ability to log in and comment was taken away after I made a series of comments about election integrity.
I checked back recently, after sending emails over time and getting no reply, and was allowed to log in but not comment.
At that time I was “banned” (around the end of last year) the atmosphere was very pro Hillery and the Obama people were getting the smack down, I might add abusive smack downs. Nice to see them get some of the same back. I guess the momentum has carried Obama (and continues)and overwhelmed them. I guess they are a bit thinned skinned. If they can’t take it now, what about in the general.
BTW, I was for the Kucinich/Paul ticket. I agree with both and they weren’t that far apart. I tend to like libertarian ideas, including small government. However, with the corporate laws allowing permanant incorporations and the current monetary system we have today, big government and liberal politics is the only check against the big money deep pockets of huge rich corporations.